Vevor milling table -- can't get no precision!
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 01. 2024
- Trying to get the wobble out of the lead screw advance on my Vevor milling table.
This milling table doesn't cost a lot, but if you buy one, you are buying a project giving it the care and attention to detail that is lacking in the design and manufacture of this product.
Having seen this video, Vevor emailed me:
"I noticed that you created a vevor milling table, can you feature these product links?"
US milling table s.vevor.com/bfQPkv
CA milling table s.vevor.com/bfQPkJ
I bought the table myself, but I did get the mini lathe in a previous video for free, and they were ok with that video as well, even though I was quite critical of parts of it. - Jak na to + styl
Having seen this video, Vevor emailed me:
"I noticed that you created a vevor milling table, can you feature these product links?"
US milling table s.vevor.com/bfQPkv
CA milling table s.vevor.com/bfQPkJ
I bought the table myself, but I did get the mini lathe in a previous video for free, and they were ok with that video as well, even though I was quite critical of various aspects of it.
Precisely for that, honest reviews actually boost their sales! Because they are sometimes 10 times cheaper than competitors
oops on the reversed links - I just cut and pasted those from the email without testing them, will fix.
And checking those links now -- Canda now out of stock!
Is it time to make a wooden mill table?
Unbelievable! Vevor does not even understand the serious negative revelations you have made about this piece of sh*t!. Any publicity is good publicity, just like show business! And people are lapping it up - ref: Canada now out of stock! Too sad!
Matthias is slowly turning into This Old Tony
Imagine the reverse - Old Tony turns into Wandel !
Hmmm I'm missing out on the pervasive dad jokes
Wrong. Matthias was ToT all along. You're just looking at the wrong time scale. See, this is ToT pre-time travel.
And we got front row seats!
Love it
@@aserta that makes so much sense
“How did I ever get in without a metal lathe?” Had me chuckling. If I recall, Mathias once successfully adjusted a morse taper with an angle grinder!
After spaffing a bunch of weld onto it to make it thicker, yes I remember 🤣 Somehow it even worked!
I asked myself that very thing once I learned about machining. Damn schools for taking classes away!
No he just squeezed it really hard with his hands.
I mean... if you know how to an angle grinder is perfectly acceptable to do scraping work with. I know an older dude, French guy that moved to Germany back in the 80's, he's a nutter, but he can do incredibly precise scrape work with a small Makita angle grinder. When i asked him why he's not using the conventional scraper tool, he said he's too old to use the vibrator and too lazy to do it manually. Yes, in that fashion.
But hey, he does incredibly good work and he's gotten an old clapped out lathe i had so close to perfect that i only get a very small error on the standard cylinder test. Barely noticeable on my dial indicator. That said, when i tried it, i made a gouge in a test piece and said... i'm not good enough and went back to my hand scraper. Training wheels it is.
Some people just have the "touch".
I love that the "and I am going to fix it" is implied at this point
Matthias, the genius software engineer, the carpenter, the CZcamsr and now, the machinist!!!
programmer maybe, but never a carpenter nor a machinist
@@sphinxios Clearly he is both a carpenter and a machinist.
@@difflocktwo dont insult those who are, making a 4 m2 small shed isnt being a carpenter nor is bying the cheapest chinese lathe and doing stupid things with it.
@@sphinxios Says who?
@@sphinxios @difflocktwo I was a Master Carpenter 35 years and yes he is a carpenter, i never built thing like he has. Like coding there are many different Languages, and he has his own. Why so bitter difflocktwo?
Matthias never fails to amaze me with his insightful and meticulous logic to show us not only the "root cause" of engineering/physics/math-based designs and how to resolve them. I have seen several people on YT showing off the same x-y table and recognizing most of the issues he has shown here but none have done such "analytical" investigations with simple DIY solutions any DIY'er can follow
His last video where he showed that the gears for threading chart had just flat out wrong values - it took Adam savage 3 failed screws and an afternoon of thinking to figure that out!
This goes to show that for some products you really get what you pay for.
If we even get that
Ain't is so!
Chinese products being cheap and dodgy is.. normal. But when it comes to tools, I always get red in the face and Greta Thunberg levels of outraged: "How could you?!".
@@teaCupkk
The big problem is the price point the product is built to.
Or at the very least, you don't get what you don't pay for.
I have been following your videos for some years now and must tell you are AMAZING!
I've been asking myself for years how you ever got on without a metal lathe. 🤣🤣
You can take advantage of that slop in the lead screw nut mounting holes. If you pivot the nut a bit you can eliminate some of the backlash. It's a kudge, but it works.
I was going to comment that the broken nut was just an accidental backlash compensation feature 😂
Matthias - I like this “Fix Cheap Tools” series
Chines machine should be bought in all technical schools......they are great to learn how to fix the hundreds of issues they bring from the factory.
Definitely a learning experience. Sort of like buying something used and banged up.
@@matthiaswandel I have a neighbour who builds engines for racing cars.....he once had an offer from a chinese factory to make the engine, claiming they will copy it step by step, inch by inch, so he sent the engine to CN, and after a couple of months he received their prototype, which had a HUGE dent on one side.......when he called them to complaint, they said that dent was also in the original he sent (turns out the delivery company damaged it, and the chinese factory copied also the damages!!).
Probably this table was damaged before the chinese started to copy it! (they even made the hole in the cardboard box, for more accuracy!)
Your bodging of literally EVERYTHING in wood to a high standard is what made you unique and famous :-) and you know it. And we love(d) it.
Very balanced view of what you should expect and how to deal with some of the bottom of the barrel 'machinist' tools out there. A lot of satisfaction can come from tuning up bad products if you take it in stride and realize that's part of the cost of paying so little.
Some X-Y tables cost many times more than these cheap imports. I'd expect those to be more refined. At the bottom of the price range there's going to be rough edges.
Really enjoying the new metal based content and watching you problem solving and learning as you go. It can be an addiction trying to find accuracy in tools at a lower price point
For years now, I've enjoyed watching your problem-solving genius. You're truly an inspiration, Matthias. Thanks for the great content.
Retired CNC tech here.
Cut a section off the bent lead screw. Take the lose nut with the lead screw section in it. Put it on a wood fixture. Melt some Babbitt metal and cast a busing/bearing in the nut. Twist the stub out of your cast bushing.
Take a clean section of your trash lead screw and some valve fringing compound. Lap the working surface of your cast bushing. Then clean it out well with naphtha and a tooth brush.
Pack your lead screw with a stiff grease and assemble. You’ll cut your lash in half. This is how early machine tools were made in the 19th century. And bearings were made in the Ford T and A’s engines. Do it right you’ll never do it again.
Second point. Those are not thrust bearings on the spindle. Just pillow bearings. True your casting surfaces by putting brass washers into contact. Make a couple on your lathe. Cover them with valve grinding compound and lap the contact surfaces in.
Pull it apart and remove the brass washers. Clean everything with naphtha and a brush. Be sure those open bearings are clean. Get yourself two cupped spring steel washers. Any industrial supply like MSC or Grainger will have them. About 0.050 inch should be right.
Pack those bearings with a stiff grease. Put the spring washers between the back bearing and the inner end cap, and between the outer end cap and the outer bearing. I’m contact with the surfaces you previously lapped. Cups toward the bearings.
Then torque the spindle nut. You may need to replace that cheesy acorn nut with a pair of thin profile nuts. Work it back and forth with your indicator as in the video, torquing as you go. Find the best compromise between free nothing and consistency. Then lock the two spindle nuts together. A little blue locktite helps.
Best you can do.
Fox out
Thank you Matthias for reinforcing my belief in used tools and machinery.
I love watching him fix/improve cheap products. Also agreed, love that you have a metal lathe now.
It is a joy watching how you approach, troubleshoot and improve issues like these, Matthias :)
I've seen a lot of videos of people using this milling table. ugh! you had so many issues. you are the master of making things work!!!
Bravo Matthias! I am so happy that you got this lathe... because you are gonna teach us so much!! Enjoy it!
Great to see you diving in to machining, it took a lot of restraint for me not to buy a Chinese import lathe and mill, I tried to look for second hand lathe and mill and couldn’t find any, so I bought my lathe( Chinese import) from a uk company that basically spruced it up and made it far more precise than what it came from the factory. I wasn’t gonna buy an import mill so I waiting. Finally got my hands on a old round column mill for a very reasonable price and I was and still very glad I waited and got my hands on it, it’s not perfect but it’s 100 times better than anything I could have got and afforded. I love machining and learning everything that goes with it. Woodworking is very forgiven when mistakes are made, not the case with machining. So it’s a learning curve and a great challenge, a lot of room for learning. I hope you enjoy your new toys and you adventure in precision engineering, unfortunately that’s not something we get on Chinese imports, but that’s something that you can certainly work on to achieve. Great seeing you get in about it.
Especially in the UK there are so many old, high quality lathes around. I had the same decision to make but I'm glad I decided against the chinese product and for a Drummond B-type from 1914. She was wonkey, but as I'm slowly improving the features, I learn a lot on the way. Those were made as "real" tools for industry as well, not for hobbyists, it's already at the point where I can see those qualities. Certainly when I whatch videos from chinese mini lathes I am baffled how bad some aspects of those are. I'd definitely go for older machines again.
@@computername yeah totally agree, they where made to last and they have. My mill is a round column nearok and it solidly build and am the same just slowly improving the precision and learning along the way, check my channel out if you like and follow along the way as we are both learning. I’ve had the chance to get a few old lathes it’s just there size and weight totally exceeds what my floor can handle but I plan to keep a look out and try and get my hands on a golden oldie. Good luck with your future projects.
what is the comapny for the lathe ?
@@gedr7664 if your talking about my lathe it’s warco. I think the lathe Matthias has is just a generic Chinese one, maybe from VEVOR but your need to get that from the man himself.
Something you can easily do with a round column mill is fill the column with hydraulic cement and a few pieces of rebar. The cement will swell just a bit as it sets so it won't be able to fall out. It will dampen vibrations by the added mass and stiffness.
You are the best person on You Tube that gets things that are cheaply made and tries to make it better! I am like most... I don't have unlimited money. Now I know not to buy one of these now because I do not have the tools to make it like it ought to be. I appreciate your candidacy with all you videos. LONG TIME WATCHER
I really like how this video amplifies the types of errors that can be in even the highest quality spindles/leadscrews. I've watched some of Robin Renzetti's videos about making components for high end spindle rebuilds, and this video really helps me understand why he takes the great care he does for certain components (like lapping the locking nuts flat and parallel).
Very interesting. I don't follow all the details about why this surface does that, etc., but it is fascinating seeing you modify and attempt to improve the precision of your tools. Thanks for sharing.
I’m so glad you are going through the pain of tuning and setting up these low end metal working tools for your viewers. My very limited experience with high end metal working tools has steered away from these low end tools.
The man who used to do his “precision” machining with an angle grinder has become the precision machinist persona at whom he once scoffed. Welcome to quality workmanship. Wait until you get a good lathe, one that doesn’t sound like dragging a steel garbage can on asphalt!
Brilliant.
Very enjoyable presentation of what you did to improve the machine.
Your videos always amaze me!
Thank you!!!
Paid to fiddle around in the shop. You are living my dream. Keep up the good work
Makes my eyes water watching a wood guy venturing into metal.
Thank you for another great video Mathias👍 I always learn things from you🙂
Thank you for going over this unit in detail, I previously considered buying one!
I would say you got along surprisingly well without a lathe. I surprised you didn’t get one sooner!
"How did I ever get on without a metal lathe?" I wondered the the same thing.
And then I got a 3D printer. *wow*. Just...wow.
the wise bending and checking is amazing, very useful, thanks!
MW, we need more people like you in the world. thx
Hey there, love your videos. I've done 3 reviews on this mill table... actually 2 but another is in process now. All three came to the same conclusion. The table castings and machine were okay but the lead screws were junk. In the first video I did I replaced the lead screws with 3/4"-10 threaded rod and made dials. In the second video (and second table) I tried to keep the original lead screws and installed DROs. Yes it works but they wobble. In the third video (in process) I replace the screws with 3/8"-16 thread rod and increase the X-axis travel by about 3 inches. In hindsight i should have used 1/2"-13 and not 3/8" but it works. This video will hopefully be out tomorrow.
Nice one Matthias! Super interesting and highly revealing!
Loved this! Great explanation Matthius
I love this - This came borked, so he fixed the work they should have done at manufacture!
However, i don't see it this way at all - not all tools come perfect, and most tools need some sort of adjustment and handling before they can be used for their intended use, so this video is actually showing that "Before you use your tools, check to make sure they are working correctly first" - A valuable lesson.
Those X-Y tables are almost never used for what they're intended to be used for. So what's the point? 99 out of 100 that buy them would never appreciate the effort. You can't talk the other 99 out of what they want to do either.
As with many offshore machinery tools... they're just a kit in a box, waiting to be semi-perfected! :D
If you run into a bent shaft like that, a couple of V-blocks, an arbor press and a dial indicator is the way to go. Bump, turn, read, repeat!
This was very educational regarding Vevor product quality. Thank you so much! I had considered buying a few things from them but now I have written them off completely. That milling table was the worst excuse of a tool I think I have ever seen.
I have a vevor bandsaw, and it was an absolute nightmare setting up. Nothing from the factory was remotely accurate. But once i got it set up, it works quite well!
If everyone was as determined as Matthius, all products would be awesome!
I predict that in the future we will get a video “I made my own precise mill!”
5:50 the term is "chilled", when casting, iron if it cools down too quick, it chills and hardens in that particular spot.
This used to be a big issue before carbide tools were a thing.
It also indicates that they run very little machining margin for their castings.
Oh boy when you got to use wooden surfaces as a reference to mill cast metal, you now that you are dealing with third tier metallurgy right there !
I have this same table. I was pretty happy with it, because my expectations were zero.
That last sentence sounded as foreboding and exciting as any I've heard 😉
I have one of those and had similar issues. What I did on the lead screw nut was 3D print a sleeve for it.
Since the table is for light use, that seems to remove the play. Also, I stoned the ways, and trammed the table by making it parallel with the base. A pain, but it works well now.
I love this kind of videos
Nice work! I too have had a Vevor adventure and fixed something brand new.
If you can swing it, would love another table analyzed. Comparing the cost and quality is amazing to me. My mill has a very worn table but I work around it.
This video showcases how the mind of a genius works. “Then I realized…” Brilliant!
Yes, that is amazing why you haven't bought a lathe years ago! Specially a guy like you!
I also do not know how I got on without my metal lathe and milling machines. They are so useful for making tools, jigs and parts for wood working.
A perfect project for you to get started with the metal lathe!
Matthias veering into machine tools and precision. Amazing. Next thing you know he'll be scraping and all sorts :)
I hope we don't have another channel with scraping ala Keith Rucker
You can make it much more accurate by purchasing a DRO - digital read-out and installing it on both axis. That way you do not rely on cranking the handle but on a digital scale.
Vevor does carry a DRO kit in their store and they might be willing to sponsor a video of you installing it on this table ;-)
I just looked and Vevor is sold out of the 2 axis DRO. It costs more than that X-Y table does too. So the other option is to just get a couple cheap digital calipers and screw them to the table. Which is what I'd do if it were me.
Ummmm, lipstick on a pig.......
Or (and this feels like a pretty Matthias solution), make your own DRO from the mechanism of one of those cheap digital calipers.
@@hobbifiedWell, that is exactly what I did for my Russian made table lathe. Bought a 4 inch digital calipers and a 12 inch plastic digital one and mounted them on my lathe. One day I will get "proper" [knockoff] DRO ;-)
Seeing as you now have a leadscrew nut split longitudinally, use the half with the most meat on the thread and put it up against the leadscrew so that there is no or very little play against the thread and bolt it down. Then make a block out or hard wood, or metal if you have some, and place it against the leadscrew on the opposite side to the half nut and use it to push the leadscrew tight against the nut so that all the play is taken up. Unless you are trying to force a half inch cut it should make everything more accurate for what you want to use it for. On older lathes they used a half nut on the lead screw for moving the carriage along the bed. HTH
Just slather some beyond its use date grease on the lead screw. Job done.
That's a great idea
Thanks for this review! I was considering purchasing one, but now I'll need to reconsider.
Mathias i would suggest milling and mounting a second lead nut about an inch forward of the factory one, and let your lead screw pass through both of them. You may lose a couple inches of travel away from center, but the extra nut will absolutely help to stabilize that lead screw.
If he's going to machine a new nut, wouldn't it be better to just replace the factory nut?
@@SuperDavidEF Do both perhaps?
@@SuperDavidEF believe it or not you're not going to get a much better tolerance than that factory nut. I mean there is probably a tiny bit or room for improvement but It's probably within two or three thou, it just seems way tolerant because of how long the screw is. Any play whatsoever would drastically show up with a screw that long. I could be wrong but I bet much tighter than that and youd have some binding issues. 🤷
@robertswaine6096 I didn't think of a half nut but you're right it could do the trick 👍
@@A_Stereotypical_Guy The first (broken in shipping) nut could do the trick.
I bought one of those tables a year ago with the idea that it would only be good as a raw casting, I did end up re-machining all of the important surfaces and re-scraping the ways as I am using it as a sort-of precision slide. The lead screws are not very nice, but functional enough for the purpose.
Thank you Matthias - the man who taught us to bring metalwork precision to woodwork.
China produces hundreds of thousands of tons of badly made and badly packaged junk every year. Buyers send it back for refund or - even worse, a replacement, which is just as badly made as the one sent back!
It's true that the branded version of this milling table will cost 3 - 4 times more and still be made in china, but like the iphone it will be made under strict western company supervision.
The Chinese can produce quality.
Great video, I really love your closing comment, cheers!
Great video, Matthias ! In a similar situation with a vevor lathe cross slide, I cut a new leadscrew and new nut. :- (
I know it was cheap, so we can't expect too much from it... But this level of carelessness is just insulting! I almost bought a vevor lathe but changed my mind after seeing a lot of videos about the quality of vevor tools and machines...
man i agree once you change your chuck out and get more tooling you will be looking to get a mill i know your trying the drill press route but i have been there done that and power accuracy and variable axis all come in to play great save on the vevor though👍👍
Amazing video ❤
I love this kind of videos!
I bought one of these last summer, but due to medical issues never got to it. Time to check mine out!
This is pretty much my experience with tools straight out of china: they are okay-ish if you spend some time fixing all the things their (non-existant) QA missed. Worst case you end up with broken parts but generally it's just a matter of re-assembling it making sure all the corners are square, loctiting all the screws so they don't vibrate out and doing a couple of test pieces to find out where the lack of precision comes from and fixing those.
If you do that, the tools are fine, but for about half the price of a "locally" produced thing if you don't want to pay too much but have the time it's a fine product, as long as you take the shortcomings into account.
cheap tools are the most expensive
Buying Chinese equipment is a good way to acquire a long term project. Keep buying them and you will never run out of them!! Great for your channel and for CZcams! Can't beat the Chinese I tell you...
I would love to see a series of Matthias buying cheap tools and showing what it would take to get them close to the quality of the more expensive ones
It might be a good idea to cut a few thin washers that are a few thousandths thicker on one side, that way that can be spun and sorta tuned against each other, or even against a surface with a known slant. If you still have that broken leadscrew nut, it might be possible to braze it back together with brass and then screw it up to the existing one with a spacer between them to take up some of the backlash.
Such an interesting video! On my recent trip to China I couldn't help but notice various chinese brands of home air conditioners and also automobiles, many of which I was told are well respected, quality brands, that exist there but non existent outside China. What we see here in North America are generally low cost imports, and the quality reflects that.
The chinese are perfectly capable of producing quality products, but we usually look to them for cheap stuff, so that's what we get. There was a time when Japan, then Taiwan, were known for cheap junk too.
That is Hilarious! Great you got it working at the end. Your bending reminded me of me having to bend several rods and the lead screw straight on my cheap CNC machine. You might have succeeded the bending without / with less weakening the material, these cuts look quite deep.
Sometimes there are products/tools that is better buying good quality used ones even if they need repair, than new cheap ones. My dad has a small metal workshop, the lathe and milling machine were bought used, they needed repairs/rebuilt but at least we got good stuff.
Good deductive work, Sherlock!
I have the exact same compound table Mathias. Bought it 2yrs ago. But mine wasn’t damaged….thank God🙏 The one I received is accurate within 2-3 thousandths in the X & Y axis. With that much error in your table, I think they should send you a replacement and see how that goes. Unless they’ve changed there manufacturing methods, you should have a more accurate table. Just my opinion🤷♂️That table is made for precision….if dropped and damaged I would request a replacement table. Metal doesn’t just break but also bends in other area’s that causes all sorts of problems.
Love the wooden model!
I have 3 of them. Modifications to Screws, nuts, and bushings for screws. And full screws for the x and y it just about takes 2 to make 1 and the Unsupported screws don't help it's why i made them full screws and took the table endplates for x and y put a bushing for the screw in them and added it to the other as well and made better Gibbs is how i got mine working. I have 2 tables that have cave of a hole in them. They did nothing to help me beyond sending me a replacement one that was as bad if not worse then the 1st. Then when i complained about the same issues, i got $40 and that was it. I am out $250, for 2 got one for free as a replacement and only got 1 useable one after sever modifications. This is more of a project if you buy one. Good video on you, hope you have better luck.
I love this channel
Matthias, it's great to see you finally making your way into precision metalworking! I've often thought that if you had a lathe and a mill, you'd rule the world.
Honestly, you can completely ignore the handwheel dials if you install digital readouts for each axis. iGaging linear scales would be a good, inexpensive solution. I use them on my lathe, and they've been plenty accurate and repeatable for my needs.
Life of a DIY mechanist. Most machines from china are treated as assembled kits. Rough casting in need of finish machining. Have you heard of “metal scraping” to Finish in a machine? Adam Booth, Keith Rucker and Keith Fenner. Mr Pete 222 also May more answers . You’re on the right path. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for sharing 👍
Wow, and I wanted to buy this product for my drill press.I guess I will be making my own.
Great Job!!! Winky's workshop Channel has a video called ; improving the lenght of the vevor mill table and one changing both lead screw, but he used RH threads..i have same table but i will change to Acme 5/8-8 LH, but have to chamge dials to Inches..keep posting!!
The detective work was as good as the rest of the video!!!
I just love the paleolithic approach Mathias gives to machining.
I welcome this trip into metalworking. That vevor part is a real piece of junk but provided some good lessons. I never thought about accuracy depending on thrust bearings and seats.
You can straighten any shaft in your lathe. Chuck the bent end in the three jaw, then put a DTi on the end. Rotate the shaft around to find where it goes high and tap it down a little, check the run out with the Dti again and repeat until the runout is .001 or less.
It was entertaining, I shall watch more.
For the backlash in the leadscrew nut, you could actually cut it in half, and then mount the halves offset a small amount. That way, half of the nut is pushing against the front faces of the threads, and the other half is pushing against the rear faces. This is usually done with brass split nuts on milling machines and the like.
I have one and love it, but mine wasn't dropped and I don't use the scale. I took it all apart, cleaned and deburred, then reassembled and really took time to adjust the gibs.
Me 2 I'ma huge fan of your work:-)
I bought one of those x y tables. They pretty much suck. You did some things I didn't think of. I may have to revisit it again. Might be able to get it good enough for the drill press. Might try to make a brass nut for it too. At some point the returns are diminishing.
I had not watched this video, but did just watch most of the "why the hate" video and when you said "they are building to a price and the quality is what it is" I came to see what that "price" was. in the UK it's saying £91 !! For a milling table that's only about 0.05mm out of true - no-one can legitimately complain at that. Considering buying it myself now as I've had cause to need a lateral milling table a couple of times.
I have actually been quite impressed with the robustness and quality of the Vevor products I have bought in the past. I haven't, however, bought anything like a machinist tool or anything that requires any sort of precision. But I am a bit surprised surprised at how consistently bad that lead screw is.