Homemade vs. store bought edge clamps
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- čas přidán 4. 10. 2023
- More testing on Marius's edge clamps vs. the expensive Bessey edge clamps.
Testing force applied with a jig and a load cell, friction limits of the cams, and practicality of edge clamps for some applications. - Jak na to + styl
Hi from France ! Hello Mathias! I wrote recently that it was a shame that the subtitles weren't working and I was sorry because I've always been a fan of your channel!
Tonight, miraculously, they're on and in French. So now it's going to be great to follow you and understand!
Magnificent, isn't it? !
I uploaded this video to my second channel at the same time, where subtitle generation actually works, then copied the subtitles from that upload onto this channel, and deleted the video on the other channel. That's what I had to do. Don't know why subtitles don't generate on this channel.
thank you for going through that!@@matthiaswandel
When a mad scientist takes up woodworking as a hobby.
Sir, you are amazing.
It will be interesting to see the same clamp in five years after the bean counters redesign it, "To make it better". Just like the black and decker Work Mate, when that first came out it was a fantastic tool...now a shadow of what it originally was and not even a good toy. Great video Matthias thumbs up.
Your testing methods and fixtures are GREAT.
In every generation there are few who contribute to the development of our shared intellectual capacity. They either have an altruistic aptitude for it or get rewarded somehow (probably not always fairly). Even though CZcams and its inhabitants may have broken your trust and certain financial hopes, thank you so much for being one of the few who give us knowledge.
love your use of microcontrollers and the load cell
I, for one, am glad you make these videos. I can certainly see why you would need to satisfy the algorithm but it's nice to see that you have the integrity to do something regardless of popularity.
The one you bought in the store is also much wider than the home-made ones. I am curious how the store one would compare if the rubber was as wide as from the ones Marius built. 🤔
I love this series on testing, and breaking, joints and clamps. It sorts out the good from the fluff! Keep it coming!
just cause comments might help push it for the algorithm: Yes, I did watch it and enjoyed it. This is the kind of in depth content I crave on youtube. I love all the experiments you do, they're a fascinating view into a world I may or may not know a lot about, and pretty much an instant click when I see you uploaded something new regardless of the topic!
I'm not even sure what I'm screaming, but I'm screaming about the acme threads in the Bessey vs. the 60 degree threads in Marius' lovely homemade clamp.
It's way too early to be coherent and concise, but I'm really enjoying this look into 'good enough' and engineering down. I don't know why I find product design so fascinating!
I haven’t been watching enough of your content recently. I love the creative jigs and test apparatus you come up with.
Great video and very interesting finding about the soft rubber on the edge clamp! 😎
Dear Mr. Wandel, fantastic video, excellent expression of ideas and expansion of our minds with your techniques and methods and testing styles. Thank you for this great video. Tom from Toronto.
I love your videos. I like the inspiration they give me to make some of my own tools rather than buy everything. Especially when I can't afford lots. Keep make great videos like this one.
That frame from the store clamp is certainly of excellent quality, so that is a no-brainer "buy" instead of "DIY", if you can pay the price, that is.
I agree that most people do not seem to care about tests and would rather watch you work on something "tangible". Still, I think it's a nice addition to your videos, because it teaches everyone to think like an engineer.
After reading your comment, there’s always the point that you usually need more than one clamp to do a job like glueing edge pieces on. So buying, say four or five factory made clamps, it is very expensive over homemade clamps that can provide enough clamping force to get the job done. How much force is actually needed to glue on edge pieces and what other uses can you use a clamp like that for?
I would use the homemade clamps and use the money saved to buy more of a type that you would use more often.
@@Hoaxer51 Sure, but don't forget that the time invested in designing, tweaking, and building each clamp has a price too. I remember Marius gave an estimate of the amount of hours that he took to build the clamps but I don't remember the exact amount (but I believe it was several tens of hours), and that is without considering the designing phase and the tools required.
Overall, I would say that if you add the overhead costs to each clamp, you wouldn't be that much far off the price of the store unit. Sure, one would need to have proper data to tell for sure, but I would be surprised if that were not the correct outcome.
Matthias should have a "DIY or buy" series to analyze these things, as other youtubers like GreatScott have.
@@PayneMaximus, It seems that most DIY’s don’t really consider time when they think about the costs of their products, maybe it’s the enjoyment of making something yourself. It’s also where they can really save money on the project, but you are right, time is money.
I really like your idea about doing a cost difference between buying and building your own, and using with your time against without your time. I’m sure that building something as a one-off would be much more expensive than making, say ten pieces, so maybe include something like that into the equation.
@@Hoaxer51 Sure, DIYers clearly enjoy the process so it's understandable that such time would not be factored in. However, there is always the possibility of doing "something else" that you enjoy or even working on something that would yield you money (maybe your job pays you $15 or more per hour). To be fair, I believe such cost should be taken into account always.
I think having a head-to-head comparison between DIY and retail products would be an interesting addition, especially since Matthias has spent so much time already creating his own projects and tools.
@@PayneMaximus
OK if your time being paid for, your point is valid, but if like me I am retired so my time needs some activity to keep me occupied and moving to stay healthy. So if you find wood working enjoyable then making edge clamps may pay dividends in more ways then money.
Watching Matthias’s videos, of either making or breaking things, are always both entertaining and inspiring.
Wonderful to see two of my favorite CZcamsrs working together.
Will I ever need an edge clamp.. no. Did I watch and thoroughly enjoy the entire video.. yes
Must See Edge Clamps - - - Wait for it . . .
I watched it and enjoyed it. Always enjoy your videos.
I watched it; I enjoyed it! Great stuff. Thanks Matthias and Marius!
Edge clamps are good for edge cases lol! I usually use some long pipe clamps. Would be interesting how normal clamp force drops off for both screw type and the squeeze type (not sure what those are called). Just use a longer pipe if it's not long enough. Still interesting experiments and filed it in my memory, maybe I'll use it someday for something else.
Always fun to see what you’re up to. Thanks for an entertaining as well as informative video!
Very interesting
I like your tests
Please don’t stop
I watched because I had never seen an edge clamp ... which makes me feel bad because I consider myself a tool guy. THANKS A LOT!
Clamp integratey is important on the basis of securing etc definitely worth watching this video matthias.
Thank you for the gripping presentation.
Well, dispite your optomisim at the end, I love your testing videos a lot! 👏👏❤❤
your videos are always interesting Mathias 👍
Always find your videos interesting and educational! March on!
Marius' video on these was great too.
You keep making these niche videos (that we like) and often say "this won't get many views" but you still keep making niche videos and your small band of weirdos on YT remains happy. *I* liked the video!
No you should not think like that. I find it very interesting to watch the whole video. These systems you built are just insane
I enjoy watching every video you put out, sometimes more than once. I see things in missed the first time. Of course, the Like button is always pushed.
As always, an interesting topic. But it sort of begs the question, how much force do you really need for edge banding? Do those that use masking tape to clamp their edge band achieve optimal (or at least sufficient) glue bond?
Your comment that your wood gears are holding up just fine made me consider the history of wood gears. I would guess wood gears go back centuries.
Part of it is psychological: tape might be more than enough for edge banding, but I’ll never fully trust it.
yeah all of this is way overkill.
Leonardo da Vinci didn't know about involute gear teeth. He used pegs, which worked, at the cost of higher friction, backlash, and wear.
@@justfellover peg gears were very strong, and useful for water wheels etc, but way before Leonardo. Look at the Antikythera mechanism, they had bronze gearing (not involute, but still toothed) in the 1st to 2nd century BC.
I like your tests mathias, Stay healthy...
Long time subscriber. Love your content! The view count actually looks pretty good haha I think your thumbnail actually helped
Looking forward to the next cooperation between Marius and you.
Pretty interesting experiments indeed, Matthias! Awesome work! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Stay safe? Is he in a dangerous place?
@@pompus9068 We all are, dude. This world is mad lately...
@@MCsCreations Word
@@MCsCreations I completely agree with you.
I hope you stay safe too.
@@skippylippy547 Thank you! The same to you! 🖖😊
I enjoyed it. Thank you for your experiment.
Thank You Matthias and Marius
Always interesting videos sir!!
Always Interesting Videos on your channel.. THX!!
I love the hard work for science, thank you for "doing the needful" as they say. Science is important.
Great video Matthias! I might me in your minority but I’ve been watching you from the beginning. Thank you for sharing your content, I have always loved your channel.
Hey - I’ve enjoyed everyone of your videos. Dude - cool!
Amazing! dude you RnD's for your friend. If he can improve the rubber you just instantly made his product so much better!
Here's a free comment and interaction from someone that appreciates non-clickbait titles! As always, great experiments and testing :)
A very interesting experiment!
If Matthias posts, I watch. As should anyone.
Great tests.
Very informative and useful. Thank you
Thanks for the vidya!!!🤗 I find materials engineering and implementation to be extremely fascinating!!! 💯🏆
The Bessey plastic looks to be polyurethane, similar to skateboard wheels. Pretty tough and hard stuff!
I was going to say the same thing. It's the same stuff they use in high performance car bushings. I work with it in it's raw form all day long. Nasty stuff, but it sticks like crazy to things, and it's MUCH tougher than rubber.
could also be uhmw or delrin
@@nh18343 you wouldn't want to use uhmw plastic for that purpose. It is way too slippery for a grabbing use. Polyurethane has the grip you need. Uhmw is used where you want things to slip, like on a router table or table saw fence.
Your topics are always interesting and worth watching. Keep'm coming ;o)
Great video! Keep up the good work dude
I see potential for a future video!
Testing the grip performance of various materials ---- varieties of rubber vs different types of silicone.
Sounds like a job for Matthias!
I've used neoprene for some other grippy type things (low force though), I wondered through the whole of this whether it would work better here.
Great content every time!
I didn't watch it and I'm commenting.
OK, OK, I lied. I watched it and enjoyed it. Thanks for the video Matthias.
The pressures use 250 lbs etc are enough to crush the wood in some cases.
Edge banding can be achieved using stretched (painters tape) masking tape in 6 to 9 inch lengths, with far less expense and pressure.
Which is why the Bressey clamp has only a smooth rubber surface on the cams, excess force is not needed.
very in depth, good video!
Love your Videos Matthias
I found it interesting. I find all your miscellaneous experiments interesting.
It was ann interesting video. Sometimes these are more compelling to watch than others for some reason.
The best channel on the tube. Amen.
"HOMEMADE EDGE CLAMP VS. EXPENSIVE TOOL: FAILURE (GONE WILD)". There, a perfectly capable clickbait title.
Very interesting test.
I like the way you think!
At those pressures achieved, *you're likely to squeeze out too much glue to secure the joint as desired anyway.* The edging I've done has been glue, brad nails and was unfathomably strong, but I managed to break the butt-joints on one box with bruit force blunt trauma, and everything came off superbly clean. *The glue was liquid nails in a caulk type tube that was slightly watered down, and put into a dispensing/distributing bottle.*
It's supposed to be incredibly strong and reliable, but I have often found it is not.
I've found liquid nails gets brittle after a while and is not suitable for anything.
EDIT: I'm in Sydney. For US readers. Sydney has very similar to Los Angeles climate, so it wasn't getting brittle from being cold.
@@SauronsEye it has been successful and incredibly strong for some projects, but I will rarely ever use it again if at all. I've glued objects that were given days to dry in ideal conditions and had them pop apart from mild pressure or movement. I think because I watered it down in a bottle for a wood glue, it attained good penetration on those projects and has held incredibly well, otherwise, used pure it would have failed.
Thank you for the further exploration.
Long-Reach edge clamps?
would actually be handy from time to time!
I suspect at least moderately longer reach and slightly wider frame would actually be a better size for any edge clamp - how often are you trying to use that sort of clamp on something less than say 10cm wide? I'd suggest almost never, and if it ever did come up you can probably still use a 'long-reach' one that is meant to clamp on longer faces - those cams can probably just hook over the back edge easy enough, or an extra block at the screw face is simple enough to sort out from the offcuts pile the project probably generated.
I don't however think there is much cause for going that much bigger, I just can't think of a use case where the fixed width of the U part will not end up too narrow to actually go over your workpiece first, yet you actually want an edge clamp. Seems like long before you get a 30cm long one you are at the point you just want a sash clamp...
Love your stuff! Thank you.
I liked it! Than you from Southeast British Columbia!
I used to work as a copy machine technician and the parts that were constantly cleaned or replaced were the tires in the paper pickup mechanism. The three tires/wheels were pickup, feed & friction or reverse roller to prevent double feed of paper sheets. The rollers that performed the best were for the Konica-Minolta machines as the rollers had ribs perpendicular to the paper travel path. To clean the rubber, all I had to do was put some WD-40 on a rag and wipe them down to re-tackify and re-surface. Another brand (Ricoh) used a textured silicone type rubber that to clean, you just used a bit of Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol. I much more preferred the ribbed rubber rollers to the slightly textured silicone rollers!!! If you need a visual of what these rollers look like, you can go to "precisionroller".
PS--Just a thot, but I wonder how a piece of toothed/ribbed rubber CNC/3D printing drive belt would work on the cams?🤔
Great video. Thanks
I watch (and click the like button) all your videos, Matthias because you are definitely a heck of a lot more learned than I am. As a rule of thumb (for me) I try to watch all the videos made by people much smarter than I am. That's how we learn. BTW: I was thinking about your slippage issue and it occurs to me that there's a specific product that is made to counter slippage...ribbed gripper gloves. Use a strong enough adhesive (contact cement, maybe?) and glue some cut ribbed rubber from a work glove onto the gripper parts. What do you think?
generally, rubber ribs help slippage by moving liquid away from the contact. Or the ribs can flex and lock into the other material. In a dry scenario, on flat surfaces, I don't think they would help much.
Keep in mind that you do not want the gripping surface to prolong the failure of a material, even for a moment. Ribbed gripper gloves stretch and obscure what is actually happening to the material when the pressure is applied. You want the grip to be secure and brittle, as much as that sounds contradictory. You want the grip to perfectly fail when the material does - having such a grip reduces how many variables you have to account for and can make the test more definitive.
If you are testing for how a material fails, then you want to only test the material and NOT your harness. It's hard to do right, but doing so tends to give accurate results.
Great suggestion though. I like the way you think. There are so many things we can use to grip other things, and this is not a bad start. There has to be other materials like ribbed gripper gloves that are not nearly as elastic. They may be similar to what was shown in the test, but every 1% matters.
@@Snyper20 I actually did think about this and came to the conclusion (probably wrongly so, but...) that the contact cement, once dried, would stiffen the glove gripper material almost to the point of being, as you say, brittle, yet stable. Actually, now that I think about it, what about eliminating the rubber glove material and just use some sort of epoxy or other type of liquid adhesive substance that would dry to the point of creating a stable, tacky surface? I don't think it would be strong enough but, what made me think of this, was having had (in my youth) melted hot glue sticks into a small, somewhat tall (~8") container and then dipping tool handles into the hot glue and letting it cool. Basically I just created my own rubber tool handle coatings at about half (or less) the cost of getting the Dip, which has a tendency to dry out, in the bottle it comes in, long before it's all used up. At least, it did, for me, anyway. Maybe I was using it wrong?🤪🤣 Even so, the hot glue method was still cheaper.
There is probably a rubber or material that is better suited for the jaws of the clamp and will work better, but I doubt that the gripper glove material is rated for 400kg of force. Maybe if you had gorilla hands they'd make gloves that way!!
In one fast forward test it is easy to see the rubber stretch about 2mm and retract back most of that.
Great educational video
Hi Matthias! Great video as usual. I’ve seen so much content around the strength of glue and/or the strength of clamps. I wonder if you have done or could do some tests to determine how much clamping force is actually necessary? 40kg seems excessive for the vast majority of woodworking, but I’m curious if there’s a quantifiable relationship between joint strength (across various types of joints, of course) and clamping force during the glue up.
I’ve watched ALL the edge clamp videos. I have no need of edge clamps. Maybe one day. 😂
No.... this is a nice video, thanks Matthias !
Such a good suggestion on the L shaped lip on the edge. Hopefully targeted engagement with relevant discourse helps out.
Great experimentation. I was thinking it seems that the material thickness must have something to do with the performance of the clamps. A thick material between the jaws of the clamp prevent the grip, but a thinner material increases the grip. Have you tested the clamp grip with different material thickness?
I watched. Adding to the engagement numbers.
Not really an apples to apples comparison but still very interesting. Thumbs up, thanks for sharing.
You could remove the handle and thread on a nut with a little bar welded on it, for tightening/loosening, to lock the clamping force. Or maybe a flip-up locking collar made from a nut cut in 2 like used on a quick release vice.
Living on the edge. Pretty niche clamps rather than using other universal methods, but to each their own!
Nice Video!
You testing stuff is always exciting and educational.
Testing to the point of breaking is very informative.
7:14 “so it appears this rubber is not very good for h-clamping at high forces”
To me this test didn’t look completely fair. Wasn’t the rubber in between wood and clamp stressed differently? More pulling forces acting on it, compared to the situation of the single rubber in the h-clamp? Or, wasn’t there a different angle of attack? Perhaps, I do not fully grasp the forces and dynamics in play here. Somehow it’s about pulling force, pressure, friction and adhesion. I noticed the red material had grooves on the surface area where it contacted the clamp.
Commenting for the algorithm. Well thought out testing as usual.
I watched, I found it interesting!
I watched and found it exceedingly interesting.
Good find with the firm/ soft rubber. Any clue how is the rubber bonded to the cams on the Besseys? I'd like to keep a tube of that adhesive in my junk drawer.
I believe Marius mentioned in his video that it appeared to be molded directly onto the aluminum cam part.
A quick theoretical guess just eyeballing dimensions: The clamp material is probably A356 Al, Yield Strength 26000psi*smallest tensile area about .75 in * .313 in * 4 clamp legs => 24414 lb or 11073 kg to yield; The shear tear out (pins tear through the end of the clamp leg) is a lot less...about 10141 lb or 4600 kg with uniform loading at each pin; The pin material and shear strength is anyone's guess. Okay, I'll guess. Maybe they're AISI 304 about 30ksi and the pins could shear at 9533 lb or 4188 kg (uniform loading at each pin). There's also a little bending load on them so they could fail earlier. The plastic cams would probably fail first in compression though. The max bending load at the leg radius wouldn't be much in the actual clamping application. I think you just wanted to break it :)
Great video as always.
I have been wondering why Marius made his clamps quite a lot thinner than the Bessy clamps. If you made the wooden ones from plywood to the same dimensions as the metal ones then it would overcome the weakness that the hole for the threaded rod introduces to the wooden frame. Also, the clamping surfaces of the cams would have a lot more surface area and therefore grip a lot better.
he wanted them to take up less space side by side in a drawer
@@matthiaswandel Makes sense. Thanks for the answer!
@@matthiaswandel It would be interesting to make a plywood frame the same size and see how it compares to the metal one.
I think wider cams might make for less drop off with the same materials. Obviously the clamp would be larger and not fit as well in some cases, but overall might grip better.
I enjoyed it!
I watch your videos because you're awesome Matthias! Clickbait or not.
Would be interesting to design and test an edge clamp designed for the type of edging you like.
It would be nice if it clamped the bottom of the edge upward to the table. Perhaps a clever reshaping of one of the cams would be enough to accomplish this. It wouldn't need to clamp hard enough in that direction to prevent movement. That part is already taken care of. Just enough to close the gap.
Just came to say that I didn’t watch this because the thumbnail failed to communicate a click-baity narrative
Yes, not click baity enough, and dropping on a random Thursday morning ? Not Sunday morning like the other 100 videos that show up in my feed all at once.
Trick clamp manufacturers don't want you to know
Definite zero out of 10. Would not watch the whole video again.
You won't BELIEVE how much clamping force this DIY clamp has!
The video is also far too long and informative at 10 minutes. My standard is a maximum 30-second video that teaches me nothing but gives me a false sense of learning and only serves to further decrease my attention span to 5 seconds.