Colt Lightning: A Pump-Action Rifle to Challenge Winchester
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Colt held a dominant market share in revolver sales in the 1880s, but was quite interested in taking a piece of the rifle market as well. This initially manifested with the Colt Burgess lever-action rifle, which prompted the famous alleged agreement between Colt and Winchester that Colt would not make lever action rifles and Winchester would not make revolvers. Well, if that agreement really did happen, Colt took a pretty technical view of it - because in 1884 - the year after pulling the Burgess rifle from the market - they introduced a new rifle.
This was the Colt Lightning, a slide-action design patented by William Elliot and purchased by Colt in 1883. The first model was the medium frame, offered in .32-20, .38-40, and .44-40 - companion cartridges to match Colt’s revolvers. This was followed by two more models in 1888; a large “Express” version to compete with the Winchester 1876 and 1886 and a small .22 rimfire version.
The Express would be the worst-selling by far, with just 6,498 produced despite being offered in 5 different calibers (.38-56, .40-60, .45-60, .45-85, and .50-95). It was dropped in 1894. The medium frame did much better, with 89,777 made by the time it ceased in 1902. The small frame rimfire Lightning was the most popular, with 89,912 made by 1904, when all production ceased.
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"...lever action... Colt really wanted to get a piece of that action."
I see what you did there.
Jake Ballentine I was going to comment this lol
@@kayhoww Don't see it, unless you mean "lever ACTION" and "piece of that ACTION."
@@SStupendous what are you talking about
@@kayhoww what do you think, the joke
@@SStupendous good one 🙄
8:26 - back when 20 inches was considered a "short" barrel...
The carbine of the 19th century is the rifle of the 20th century and seen as a musket in the 21rst
Carbine versions of western guns are ok in my book I prefer the rifle variant
@@SlickSixguns, I hunted Pennsylvania ( translation: Penn's Woods), always preferred the carbine.
When you're burning charcoal, the length of the chimney becomes a big factor.
I've shot reproductions of this rifle in .45 colt and I was sort of impressed by just how fast you can fire them without loss of accuracy. I can see why they were called the lightning.
Yea, I under why they’re called the ‘lightning’ and they’re pretty cool in their own right. But they still aren’t called “the gun that won the west” 😉
@@JM-qb2kd if lever actions hadn’t already started such a hard trend this probably would have been the gun that won the west. It’s definitely going to be a faster shooter. There’s a reason you don’t really see lever action shotgunsanymore
I never had the opportunity but even so you can just see how this by design could be shot faster than a lever action. I dont understand why these werent more popular than lever actions.
Imagine that.
.22 caliber rifle more popular in the late 1800s.
Still the most popular round.
Every true gun owner has to have a 22. !!
@@oceanhome2023 What do you mean A?
Ron Lawson I don’t have one but I have lots of guns I mean did I lost them all in a boating accident
Slick Sixguns
LOL ! Me too from a boating accident !
Perhaps gun owners should not only have a 22 but also a boat !
@@oceanhome2023 i own one, but i had it since i was six, it was the gun i was taught to shoot with
Honestly, lever action and all these 19 century designs were so insanely genius, like you had muskets and shit and then suddenly this popped up, some real intelligence was needed to evolve guns this muchn plus you went from 1 ball round in a musket which took ages to load to having a gun that could carry freaking 15 rounds.
Advances in chemistry and large scale steel smelting are big contributors. Pretty amazing that it happened so fast though.
Yeah then one century later they go to automatics and FULLY automatics.m
@@REALPEDROGAMEPLAYS a century!? More like a couple of decades
@@lb4937 lawdy, yeah I neglected that, that's even crazier
Yep, and now all the modern guns look exactly the same.
The Slamfire option was the precursor to the “Bump Stock “
Funny how they never banned that in its day.
@@coaxill4059 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't they all for faster shooting guns back then?
Nah that was Hiram Maxim's semi-auto lever action rifle
@@coaxill4059 slam fire was essentially banned in 1976.
@@strider04 For production, not use. You can find old ithaca 37s and they're regulated no differently than any other pump shotgun.
The Colt 22 pump was the first repeating gun I ever shot. They were still using them as gallery guns at the Heart of Illinois Fair back in 1967. They were pretty well worn by then being handled by probably thousands of people at that point.
VetteKid cool thanks for sharing
Those were fantastic rifles. Slick shooters. Great fun.
The first .22 I ever shot was my grandad's Winchester pump.
Yeah, Auto Mag also heard about idea of your rifle carbine and sidearm being chambered for the same round...
Enio morricomi
What does the notable movie composer have to do with this
Wait so a loading gate on a tube fed 22 IS POSSIBLE. My whole life was a lie.
Holy shit. It is. Where are they?!? Everyone who doesn't have a 10/22 has a tubefed .22, but I've never seen a loading gate on one. Hell, one of mine is even pump action. Still gotta pull the tube and load the mag by hand tho.
Why don't they put loading gates in tubefed .22s anyway? Cutting cost?
@@acidwizzardbastard Well I've always read that you can't because the tiny .22 cartridges couldn't stand the side pressure and that the bullets would separate from the case. But since apparently it was a lie, I have no idea.
@@Wetcorps Seems plausible, maybe back in the day that happened a few times, but especially with modern ammo I highly doubt that'd happen regularly enough to be a problem.
Didn't Cooey make a gate-fed bolt-action .22?
There was quite the storm a brewin', when one rode into town carryin' their Colt Thunderer & Lightnin'!
"Very, very frightening me. "
Galileo
...Galileo, (Galileo), Galileo, Galileo, Figaro, Magnifico-o-o-o-o
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Mama mia mama mia mama mia let me go
Varmint Rifle.
I'm assuming your are referencing the RDR2 varmint rifle, however that rifle is actually based off the winchester model 90 which you can differentiate by the fact that it loads through a loading port towards the end of the magazine tube and the large knob on the left hand side of the rifle for disassembly.
@@69JuggaloMan69 found the nerd
@@yerpblev86 if you think that's nerd shit then you're on the most nerd gun yt channel there is. And the only reason I know what I said in my previous comment is because I actually own my own Winchester model 90
@@69JuggaloMan69 well you didn't prove him wrong
@@69JuggaloMan69 I'm thinking the Fallout New Vegas gun named "Varmint Rifle".
My dad picked up a lightning in 97. Still shoots fine, and is enjoyable to shoot.
Good for you
2:17 lmao, was that on your lap the whole shoot?
He is Gun Jesus. Regular Jesus makes water into wine, Gun Jesus makes air into Gun.
He turned air into a Winchester 94 in the video on Steyr Scout too
@@redundantfridge9764 Praise be unto Him.
I think he should pull a gun out of a top hat
this is not a new trick.
he has produced guns from thin air before.
I've actually handled an Uberti reproduction Lightning for a cowboy-action speed shooting. It truly is an absurdly fast rifle... when it decides to work, which is the third sunday of the month so long as you pray for the previous three months and fast the week prior to the competition and sacrifice at least one goat to Nyarlithotep on the previous full moon. Bluntly, they're fun, but about as reliable as a Yugo that's been dumped in the Dead Sea. I think I've only see them complete a day without jamming once, and the guy who did it was also a gunsmith.
that, unfortunately, is the way of Italian reproductions had a Uberti 66 win it wasn't great either beautiful rifle with the brass everywhere but not a reliable feeder i put in the rack just as a nice shelf item and bought a Rosi 92 for cass now that never missed a beat right out of the box.
@@keptinkaos6384 Well that's the funny thing; all my other Uberti's are perfectly fine. My Winchester '73, Colt '73, and High Wall buffalo gun all work perfectly. It was just that Lightning that threw a hissy fit.
Pedersoli makes the only reliable reproduction lightning I'm aware of, all the others are problematic
My pedersoli has been flawless
Same for the originals. I know 2 CAS shooters who (try to) use Lightnings in competition...both own THREE. One to be shooting...a back up for when the shooter breaks...and one in the shop being fixed!
Funny that was the first long gun I ever shot back years ago and it jammed so much it almost put me off of pump action anything. I remember asking my friends father whether they ‘all’ sucked like that and he said no just these reproduction ones lol. Frustrating day of shooting I still remember lol
The legendary manual-fully-automatic.. cycle as fast as lightning..
Manual fully automatic... You just invented the libtard's next scary buzz word! 😫
@@joshglover2370 OH SH-
@@joshglover2370 as soon as they get semi auto on the nfa.
That .22 version is gorgeous. Definitely want to try, if ever get a chance.
Taistelukalkkuna I saw one once at a gunshow wish I picked it up
I have one made in 1900, it is quite fun but, sometimes it has feeding issues
edwin priego I bet we’ll all have bigger feeding issues when we pass the century mark...
7:19 I've often wondered why no one ever thought to put full pistol grip stocks (complete with "conspicuously protruding vertical pistol grips") on long guns back then.
Probably because it wouldn't fit well into a saddle scabbard...
@@AndrewAMartin Good point. I used to take my "kid" sister to horseback riding lessons back in the late '90s, but only ever rode a hoss a handful of times, myself. So I guess that notion just hadn't occurred to my funky self.
They were called a 'saw' handle back then.
That carbine kept mysteriously disappearing onto Ian lap, I hope Rock Island made sure they got it back ;)
Again, Ian is a very good teacher of history. Worthy of a guest appearance at our War College in my estimation. I have seen these rifles at gun shows and just walk by them normally because I am of the Black Rifle generation. However, now I do stop and look at the older firearms, and I run across some neat stuff. Through Ian's videos I have a whole new appreciation for the weapons of generations past. To pick up a WW1 weapon and hold it in your hands and contemplate where it's been, and the story it comes with.... that's a deep thing.
My old man has the .22 Cal, but the guard and stock is checkered. I've been tinkering with it, no live fire, and it works great. And knowing its over 100 years old... amazing!
I have one of the Taurus reproductions in .45Colt and it looks just like the rifle in the back. It is very fun to shoot. For the people fortunate enough to get on of these reproductions and experience jamming and feed problems with it. Don't short stroke it, the handle must be pumped with force. Also don't use light loads in it. Light loads won't have enough pressure to expand the brass in the chamber leading to sealing problems and will foul the action. The old 45Colt brass was slightly thinner than modern brass. I know that my "Lightning" draws way more attention on the range than any of my lever actions.
Anneal your brass so the light loads aren't fighting hard brass to get a seal?
7:36 So the Colt Lightning hand was the Grand Thumb of its day?^^
Wait a second, Colt specifically made a carbine to be marketed to people who wanted their pistol and long gun to be chambered in the same cartridge, and decided *not* to offer .45 Colt?
Oh good its not just me wondering that
Really quite an odd thing for colt to do really
Something about the original 45lc not having much of a rim because it was never intended to be extracted that way. Note how the modern brass is more of a semi rimmed deign with a groove cut in it.
Same reason as why Winchester didn't make .45 Colt rifles. It wouldn't work reliably, not with the cartridge cases they had at the time.
.45 Colt has a tiny rim, and cartridge cases at the time were of "balloon head" construction unlike the "solid head" brass we're used to seeing today. That is, the case head was formed from really thin brass that was folded into a rather fragile rim- and unlike some modern brass there was no turned groove ahead of that rim to help the extractor get a better grip. .45 Colt, as originally manufactured, had just barely enough rim to work reliably in single action revolvers where the rim does nothing but provide a surface to headspace on. Did I mention old brass had thin-walled heads? They're thin-walled all over, and may therefore tend to expand and stick harder in the chamber when fired than modern brass does (and many early cases were soft copper, not brass, which makes this even worse). In a repeating rifle, that puny little rim made from two layers (one layer folded) of paper-thin soft copper now have to take the full force of a narrow, sharp extractor yanking a stuck case rearward without tearing.
Doesn't work, certainly not with any reliability in a dirty or corroded chamber.
@@Broken_Yugo that groove is mostly just a relief groove. So much easier to cut a small relief than form a perfect 90° corner to fit the chamber corner. I've got about ten different rimmed cartridges here that all have a relief cut above the rim. Remember, the rim is for headspace so the rim has to be right up against the barrel/chamber.
My grandfather had one of the .22's back when I was a kid around 1980. It needed a repair and he was going to give it to me after getting it fixed. He took it to some old guy he knew who did gunsmithing work to get it done. After waiting 6 months to get it back he went to see what the hold up was and found out the guy had stripped it for parts to repair other guns. All he got back was the stock, stripped receiver and magazine tube. The guy is damn lucky my grandfather didn't shoot his ass on the spot.
Did he alteast beat him woth the stock
Well, uh, screw that guy.
I'd make an attempt at recovering some of the value, whichever way that would be for you. Perhaps he did not realize, but I can't imagine that these guns go cheap these days. A few grand, maybe? Nothing to be taken apart like it's junk
Your grandfather couldn't shoot him, the gun was disassembled. What a rat bastard of a gunsmith.
13:28 is that a Colt lightning on your lap or are you just happy to see me.... sorry, I’ll see myself out.
My grandfather has a .35 Remington pump action rifle. Really neat, nice kick, just a really cool gun in general.
Its neat to see this, and get a better appreciation of such an odd action for a rifle.
I saw a Remington Model 14 in .30 Remington. If ammo was available I would have bought it.
It is very easy to see this and think "well all I need is a gas port to run that piston and hello self loading rifle"
Pretty sure if you removed the locking yoke (that's Colt's term for the bit with the locking lugs) and added a recoil spring, the medium frame version would turn into a blowback machine gun.
You mean a piston and return spring to run the pump handle/pistonless guts..
Such is the way of evolution with technology.
Gas operated mechanisms are not practical with black powder. Black powder combustion is very dirty & the residue is very corrosive. Black powder cartridges would restrict or plug the gas port after a few rounds turning the rifle into a bolt action repeater. Smokeless powder was developed in the late 1880's.
@@timrobinson6573 There's a lot of overlap between industrial machinery in general and early machine guns for certain. Maxim's in particular, especially the early models.
There was an episode of Rifleman where an English fellow challenges him to a shoot-off and he was using a pump rifle
beautiful pieces of art. hopefully you may share with us what they end up going for be interested to see.
Thank you , Ian .
0:35 A piece of that "lever action" perhaps 😂
No.
i was actually reading about these today. very cool
It surprises me that pump and bolt actions became popular after lever action despite being mechanically simpler.
Yay! FINALLY a gun on FW that - as a Brit - I've actually fired! Blackpool fun fair had the .22 pumps in their shooting gallery at least up to the 1970s and I have very fond memories of shooting with my father...I can't remember if it was paper targets of the traditional 'ducks' though. :)
Surprising that the bolt has to be fully open to load through the side gate. Probably just a matter of training. Looks like a cool little rimfire.
Perfect!! Need to take it out to the Usuary Mtn range or Ben Avery in the Phoenix area where we live.
There ought to be a western novel with the main character wielding one of these. Imagining a slam firing cowboy clearing a room is awesome.
I have one in .44-40, slam firing is great fun but very inaccurate. Would work at very short range. Also, with black powder that room would get very smoky very fast. Speaking of black powder, I found you really need to wear protective eyeglasses if you shoot a Lightning fast. On brisk ejection, it has an annoying tendency to make the hot smoking brass spin around in a way that flings hot black powder gunk right into the shooters face. Ever get BP fouling in your eye? It contains sulphur dioxide or something, which reacts with the water in your tears to create mild sulphuric acid. Stings like pepper spray for several minutes. Your hero would have to either wear glasses, shoot from the hip, or close his eyes while cycling the action.
Kaboomf great to mention for safety reasons or you could buy a replica and shoot smokeless
@@SlickSixguns of course, but where's the fun in that?
Last time I took my lightning to the range and let rip with 15 black powder rounds rapid fire, half the people on the firing line left in disgust and the other half yelled "where's my camera? Do that again!". This was during hunting practice because it was the only time I could get to the rifle range, so fudds abound. Apparently, having to see and breathe through clouds of acrid smoke wasn't everyones cup of tea.
@@Kaboomf I do the same, funds will be getting ready for deer season and me and friends roll up, mosins, aks of different calibers, SKSs, swiss 1911, styer 95, m1 garand, makarov, and 22s, mosins, and a big ass muzzle loader, they don't like us one but they pack up when we pull up lol
@@andrewschulze3865 suggestion: Tokarev pistol
I just inherited one of these. I was all confused on how you load it and stuff lol. Thanks sir!!!
I remember these! I got to plink with one, a friend's uncle's, or grandaddy's. Fun little guns.
Not gonna lie, I'd love a .22 Lightning with a full length magazine tube, holding 30 shots. Not for combat or hunting, just plinking, that's 3/5ths of a box of .22 in one magazine.
I have a Remington field master 22, it's crazy fun to shoot
Thank You for the video presentation.
Whaaaat? That loading gate for the .22 is so cool! Beautiful rifles, I wish they didn't have such a reputation to be finicky.
I have a Colt Lightning that belonged to my Great grandfather. SN 1895... 38 Cal... 38-40WCF. I still shoot it occasionally. 38-40 is a strange cartridge. It's actually .40 caliber with 38 grains of powder.
A quick note for anyone that's curious about the Italian repros. At least the Pedersoli made ones have an added button on the trigger guard that allows you to open the action without having to drop the hammer, an important safety addition for when you have to unload the thing. The old Taurus made ones do not have this feature as far as I'm aware and may also have additional mechanical issues that might need a bit of work to fix.
And the early production originals could be opened irrespective of hammer position, they didn't lock forward until fired. Anyone know if Colt changed that in 2nd generation Lightnings?
Here once again, because Hunt: Showdown added this cool rifle into the game recently
Love it ran a game where this was the repeating rifle decided on .
Happy America day Ian!
I still hope that you can bring a Lightning to InRange and do a proper head to head between one of these and it's Winchester counterpart.
Genuinely surprised that the medium version wasn't far more popular.
Compared to the fact that Winchester's were more reliable and generally better. It's not that much of a surprise
I agree that the medium-framed carbine is the most beautiful version :)
Can you do an in range video comparing the effectiveness of a pump action like this or a lever action in competition like you did with bolt actions, I still don’t expect them to come close to a modern firearm but it would be interesting to see just what the difference is.
They have one where Karl used a 1860 Henry.
A stock Lightning is faster than a stock '66 or '73. However, a stock Lightning costs as much or more than a slicked-up, short-stroked, competition-ready race gun.
Brett Hill I’ve also heard the jam a lot easier
There's a "classic manual" division in the next desert brutality, we'll see how those guys score in the overall leaderboard
Friend of mine had the pump action .22. One day it totally jammed up on him. I had one hell of a time getting it going and felt an idiot for it. Years later I read a gunsmithing book that mentioned what an SOB the guns were to work on. That made me feel much better.
I had always though the varmint rifle in red dead 2 was fictional, turns out it's primarily based on the .22lr colt lightning. You can always learn from this channel.
At about 9:30 note the bronze firing pin on the .22. The small frame is a graceful little thing with it's tapered barrel, nicer looking than the Winchester 1890s, though Winchester sold far more 1890s than Cold did their small frame .22s.
Check out the Pedersoli line. 44-40, 45, 357.
Tom Dixon will do
is the .44-40 a stopping power round
@@omartorres5688 it's a pretty solid cartridge. Not too dissimilar to the .44 special round. Only issue is that it's not quite as common as the ever favored cowboy action shooting .45 Colt round, but can still be found quite easily if you check the ammo seek website.
@@Malpaise_Legate nice as I thought they no longer made rounds used in the wild west
It looked like there was a hole where there was a screw missing in all of them. I'll presume it's not a missing screw - but what it is for?
Either a saddle ring or a sights that was available for purchase
Thanks for the vid sir.
My dad had a 32-20 and it was a pleasure to shoot.. I definitely preferred it to my Winchester for it's from the shoulder rapid fire.. it had wonderful balance as I recall.. why slides were the thing for shotgun's but never really caught on for (other then 22's) rifles I'm not sure??
Yet another rifle I didn't know existed. Now I want one.
My dad has a pump-action rifle in 25-20, I don't think it is a Colt but he got it in the late '50s. Can't remember if he bought it used or got it from my great grandfather, but it would be similar vintage as these Colts
Nice to see the originals. I remember the Taurus repros some years back. Kinda wanted one, but they were a little pricey and i heard mixed reports about them. Certainly an interesting mechanism and an alternative to lever action. I wonder if these ultimately inspired the pump shotgun (Win 1897). An Express in 38-56 would be interesting, but it sounds like you would have to modify your grip. Great video as always. Thank you
Browning wanted to make his shotgun in pump action but Winchester wanted it in lever. That became the M1887 lever shotgun. Later Winchester released a Browning pump the M1893 which was improved in 1897.
It really shocks me that to some, the Colt long guns don't seem to get much attention from collectors. I would love to snag a nice medium frame lightning but most of the ones I have seen are not in a caliber I want or they're pretty well worn out. These guns and the Colt double barrel shotguns tend to be some of the most well built guns. My local gun shop has a 1883 double 12 gauge that is better than any double barrel I have ever seen by far and while expensive, doesn't come close to some of what I see for prices of some new guns without anywhere near the nice look behind it.
I was wondering recently why I'd never seen a pump action rifle before. It seemed like a no brainer. Given what Ian says about it here and the relative simplicity of the technology I'm honestly surprised the technology wasn't more widespread.
Remington started making a pump-action rifle not long after Colt stopped making these. The Model 14. It was available in the .25, .30, .32 and .35 Remington cartridges, which were all very similar to the equivalent Winchester cartridges, but they were rimless. .30 Remington, for example, is basically a rimless version of the Winchester 30-30. I have one in .32 Remington, which sucks because ammo is close-to but not-quite unobtanium. They have a unique spiral tube magazine so you can use spitzer bullets without detonating the primer of the cartridge in front. The rifle was designed by John Pederson.
Remington still makes a pump-action rifle to this day: The Model 7600. It shares little in common with the Model 14, and uses a detachable box magazine and a rotating bolt that is vaguely reminiscent of an AK bolt. It is an evolution of the Remington model 760 which was retired in 1981.
@@tarmaque Huh, thanks for that. Still wonder why it seems so niche though compared to lever/bolt action.
@@SonicsniperV7 I don't know. The one I have is a handy little carbine that I wish I could shoot. A friend of mine had one in .30 Remington which is a bit easier to find. Unfortunately it was irreparably damaged in a fire. Winchester made millions of the model 1890, 1904, and model 64 in .22 rimfire, and other companies like Rossi have made copies ever since Winchester stopped making them. I absolutely love my Rossi Model 62, which is just a copy of the Winchester 62 with a couple nice safety updates. That said, I don't think a pump action actually gives you any advantage over a bolt action in full size rifle cartridges.
Pumpactions are actually becoming popular in parts of the world that prohibit semiautos. Pumpaction ARs are a thing.
Do these lock like a modern pump action shotgun or do they have a sort of knee joint system like a lever action? I would think the large frame would require some sort of locking lug system.
I second that. I believe there was another (Roberts???) pump action, think using front locked bolt. A
They lock all right. There's a "yoke" that's hinged to the bolt, if you look closely you can see a little round hole in the side of the receiver. That's a disassembly hole for punching out the hinge pin holding the yoke to the bolt. The yoke is acted upon by the slide action, tilting up and down to lock and unlock against a surface in the lower receiver/lower tang/trigger group/whatever. In principle similar to the locking mechanism in a Beretta 92 pistol.
Here is link showing the action and I see generally how the lockup is. Not enough detail to say much about the strength. it is different from a '73 or the '86-92 Winchesters commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Colt-Lightning_Rifle_Function.jpg
I'd like to have one of the old Springfield Armory Timberwolf rifles...
I have an early medium frame rifle, .44-40, and have put about 1200 rounds through it. Great fun when it runs, but mine has fired an ungodly amount of rounds before I bought it so I'll have to do some serious maintenance on it if it is to keep working. A few points of note:
The rifle with full length magazine holds 14 rounds in the tube plus one in the chamber. I'm sure Colt advertised that as 15 round capacity.
There are two generations of these, all the ones Ian shows here are the later improved version. Not sure exactly when they did the change, but mine with a four-digit serial number differs in two visible ways from the medium frame rifle in Ians video. One, the early ones are more susceptible to dirt getting into the action. They redesigned the top of the bolt to have a dust cover function, you can see how well it is sealed up when closed in the video Early ones like mine lack that improvement. Two, the early ones have a manual slide lock slider thingy in the front of the trigger guard (resembles a Garand safety but has a different function). These are annnoying as all hell because they tend to get loose and accidentally slide on under recoil, locking the action up just as you're trying to cycle it for a quick followup shot. Colt discovered that customers were throwing these parts away, and eliminated the slide lock in 2nd generation Lightnings. Some transitional models have a slot for the slide lock in the trigger guard but shipped without the part. I've never handled a 2nd gen rifle so I don't know if they're different internally. At least on 1st gen ones, you have to hold the slide all the way forward when shooting or the out of battery safety will prevent the hammer from falling. Can't pull back on the slide while shooting, unlike on modern pumpactions where the action locks forward until you pull the trigger. I read somewhere that they changed that for 2nd gen lightnings, maybe Ian can confirm or disprove this?
Wow, great info - thanks!!! 😎👍
@@BIG-DIPPER-56 You're welcome!
By the way, I eventually managed to repair mine. Here's a brief test firing video, I had to try one slam firing mag dump after changing the magazine spring to see if it would keep up. czcams.com/video/FtC3Vbi28Cc/video.html
I did some research while working on the rifle, to make sure I did it right. Turns out, Colt actually used both of their different improvement patents for how to hold the slide forward in production. There are some examples of the later pattern which have a spring loaded detent, and some which lock the slide until the hammer falls. Apparently, the spring detent version allowed Colt to use up their stockpile of existing early version parts with small modifications so these are probably transitional models. There were a long series of small improvements during the production run, but they'd use up early parts before making new better ones.
But why didn't Colt chamber it in .45 Colt? That would have been a way to one up Winchester and attract the handgun & long gun same cartridge crowd. It was their number one chambering and Winchester didn't chamber for it.
Technical reasons. Winchester would have offered a .45 Colt lever action in a heartbeat, if they could make one that ran reliably with the fragile rims of period .45 Colt ammo. Neither Colt nor Winchester offered that round in rifles, because it flat out didn't work.
Copy that. I figured it was something of that nature. I thought I had heard it said it was feeding and \ overall size issue in the Winchester 1873 but I was not certain the veracity. Let me ask you this because I'm not familiar with the .44-40 and .38-40 but they appear very close in size to .45 Colt. What made them different enough to avoid the same issues?
@@r.shanethompson7933 big enough rim for the extractor to get a proper grip, and bottlencked slighty tapered cases that don't stick so hard in the chamber so there's less strain on the extractor to begin with. The .38-40 and .44-40 are identical except for bullet diameter, by the way.
Gotcha! Thanks for clearing that up for me. It's always bugged me but I had never gotten around to researching it because I've never owned those calibers. My little Marlin 1894P .44 magnum and S&W 29-2 fill the matching cartridges niche in my collection.
Also colt was the one with the military contract with 45 colt as the cartridge they wanted the military clearly did not want a repeater so why invest in a design that wasn’t desired correct me if I’m wrong but that makes sense among other reasons
Excellent info 👍. I would like to have a medium 44-40. What is the value for a working shooter grade? Thanks
I'm sure someone could make a modern pump action rifle for everything from .357 magnum to .500 Magnum. I saw a prototype for something called a Predator Tactical rifle in .500, but it never seemed to go to market.
Just a few degrees down on the grip of the express and it would solve the bite problem. But, that kind of stock would more expensive to carve, especially if you already have the straight stocks at that angle ready to go.
Last time I was this early Gun Jesus was writing the book of armaments
Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch?
asmr is 4nights “oh, Lord..bless this thy holy hand grenade!”
@@smithwesson1896 Bring forth Brother Maynard
@@ajbowen9371 3 is the number
Let's bring them back!
Need to have a range video
Coitus can be heard at 1:23
Damn. Ian’s been “pumping them out” faster than I can watch. See what I did there? Yeah. Pretty lame joke.
Booo
I think you 'short-stroked' that one. See, I made a lame joke about your lame joke! It's meta-lame!
Ok dad !
I enjoyed it! 😆
Must be one of very few gate fed .22s. Neat way to deal with the usual loading pressure issue that is usually cited.
I have a slide action .22 rimfire. Cool little gun.
Is this what the "varmint rifle" from rdr2 is modeled after?
I literaly playing it right now
More than likely. I mean There where alot of whacky guns being made at that time . But I am sure you can use your own Logic of deduction to figure it out haha.
That's the Winchester Model 1890
Except that one is .22 with a full length mag tube but still only holds 14
Pith Er that is a Winchester 1890
If you were to design a rifle, with all the rifles you have reviewed, what features would you include?
Full automatic slam fire assault rifle.
Magnafox Odyssey's light gun looks bit like that .22.
I didn't think I'd find this trivia here
I always liked pump action rifles...I had a Remington 760 Gamemaster in .257 Roberts
Ian do more on the large frame Lightning
Do the large frame rifles fire from a locked breech or is all that keeps the action together when you pull the trigger is your hand holding the pump forward? Asking out of curiosity.
We have the octagon barrel version with shell chamber full extension of the barrel the express - was wondering if you knew of where we could find diagram or manual to repair it - pump action is locked up?
hank you, Ian, Grand Father left me a Colt .22. Eventually, I bought another for parts.
Sweet little units there.
I measure my unit in inches!
Thanks for replying! I watched the video again because of that and it was just as good!
These would have the lowest operational profile of the manual operated rifles; no major external parts to snag, without the design issues of a revolver carbine.
I love a lever gun a lot, but I going to look into getting one of those Lightning reproductions. Those rifles are sweet.
3:39 someone finna steal your prints lol
I don't know exactly why, but putting a full length mag under that 22 and then go somewhere and slam fire that thing sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
5:38 That looks like hammer follow, not slam firing. Now i gotta go look!
Edit: of course, you're right! Just was too fast for my eyes!
Randy Magnum lightening fast?
I think the hammer won't drop unless the bolt is fully closed
@@GentlemansCombatives Unlike the AR-15 the lightning doesn't have a disconnector; so, the hammer will follow the bolt when the trigger is held back. Slam firing depends on the force required to dent the primer enough to detonate the primer compound & how fast the action is operated. This is because the force of the firing pin strikes the primer is a function of hammer spring plus the inertia of the firing pin. The Uberti & Pederosoli reproductions aren't faithful reproductions because they have design features to prevent slam firing & out of battery firing.
@@stevecushman2830 not going to pretend to be an undisputed source here but i think you might be confusing a disconnecter with an out of battery safety. Does a disconnecter prevent the rifle from firing twice or more per trigger pull where as an out of battery safety prevents the gun from firing before the bolt is fully closed? So rather than having the hammer follow the bolt, which would result in the gun misfiring when the bolt closed, the lightening has the bolt close, then the hammer drops if you're still holding the trigger down where as in an ar15 the trigger would need to be pulled again after the bolt closes, due to the disconnector. Have i got that right?
@@GentlemansCombatives The Colt lightning doesn't have an out of battery safety neither does the Uberti lightning. The originals have half cock safety. The Uberti has transfer bar safety. The Uberti's transfer bar design prevents out of battery discharge. The originals can have an out of battery discharge. Out of battery discharges in 19th century lever & pump action rifles are typically caused by dirty guns. The hole in the bolt that the firing pin is in gets fouled with burned powder residue. If dirty enough the firing pin won't retract when cycled. When the round is chambered the firing pin will sufficiently dent the primer to set the primer off before the bolt is in battery. The Henry & Winchester 1866 can be fired when the lever is not flush against the receiver frame; therefore out of battery. The 1873 & 1876 have lever safety that blocks the trigger until lever is snug against the receiver.
That's some nice gun
Ian, I'm glad that you are a, if not The gun geek! Keep putting out your videos! 👍🖖
i was woundering if these exsisted and they do!
10:54 I started getting all misty eyed and nostalgic. Was it just me or did you all get the same "feels" :-p
Best reason to stock up on .22 Long and .22 short.
Very cool.
I have a Beretta copy which is the only one I have seen that was Beretta instead of Uberti or Navy Arms
My Lord Gun Jesus, thine majesty shineth on thy disciples. For thy words, "I am the way and the light. Except occasionally, the light is muzzle flash."
I wonder how this would compare against the leveractiom for your lever gun assault rifle idea. And maybe in competition shooting. Seems the pump would be faster even than the lever and give a good sight picture hold for follow up shots.
Kinda sad they're so rare. Pump rifles makes sense to a guy like me who shoots allot of shotgun.