The Tragic Case of the Tubercular Twins
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
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Welcome to Forgotten Lives! In today's episode we are looking into we are looking into the life of Lady Jacqueline Mary Alva Montagu and Lady Alice Eleanor Louisa Montagu who were born into a notable aristocratic family but who ended up having similar unfortunate fates.
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Congrats on your sponsorship of today!! I love that game!!! I just started playing it thanks to you and it’s really fun!!
This is a great Sponsor! Congratulations 👏 I downloaded June's journey about a year ago, with your recommendation, of course. Thank you FLives
there was an out break of malaria in cork in the early 1900`s back then in ireland and england you would get out breaks in very warm damp summers , the use of ddt is the main reason we don`t really get malaria mosquitos in ireland and britain anymore
Actually, tuberculosis is still pretty active around the world. Just in British Columbia last year there were 300 active cases. I haven't done researched anywhere else but was so surprised to find out how active it still was.
How surprising!! This video also highlights how tremendously important it is for immunizations and vaccinations as well!! We no longer suffer from polio or the measles but that tide has shifted in the last two years and measles is making a come back. They don’t recommend immunizations for fun but for the preservation of life.
It has been rumoured that T.B. and scarlet fever 🥵 are on the rise in the U.K.
I was a Navy Corpsman and there are tons of Filipinos in the Navy, because of a Naval presence in their country, and a fast track to citizenship etc for Filipinos who enlist.
Tons of Filipinos would have a reaction to that TB test, you know the test where a tiny bit of dead TB or whatever is injected in the forearm, then a day or two or whatever later they look at the site and measure the reaction, if any, in terms of how many millimeters it swells.
But yeah, maybe half of the Filipinos would have an extreme reaction, because of prior exposure to tuberculosis, even if it didn't cause an actual infection. It's wild how much a positive reaction swells, 65mm etc, they often get a great big old goose egg from it
They are saying down at the southern border it's not uncommon among those from South America.....t.b. I mean
America will soon rediscover the joys of communicable diseases we had once eradicated, thanks to this shaministration’s refusal to secure our borders.
Thank you for this beautiful broadcast. At the time of May's passing, TB was viewed as "A Poor Peoples'" disease and before the advent of antibiotics was a real killer of Rich and Poor. Even The Lovely Vivien Leigh passed with TB.
Thanks for watching!
I did not know about Vivien Leigh. I know it was under control in the fifties when l had it. But maybe she had comorbidities.
Many famous people of the early to mid 20th century died from it including George Orwell, Maria Callas and Anna Pavlova.
@@heidibee501I read she got it from her travels. Also she didn't take care of herself. Other than being a alcoholic. We now know she was most likely bipolar.
My grandmother's mother passed away at 28yrs old of tuberculosis, when she was 5 and her little sister was only 8months old. She has a picture of her and her baby sis sitting on their mother, on her bed, when she was sick. She passed away about a week after the pic was taken. I was shocked when I found out she was actively sick w tuberculosis when the pic was taken, the babies sitting on her! She said she wasn't sure if they knew it was so contagious through air, which surprises me. This would've been about 1932
I carry tuberculosis but itll never be active. I took meds for like 2 years and now im good. Its common around the world
Yes, TB is the leading cause of death is many poor counties. The biggest problem with TB is that there are strains of the bacteria that are nearly or completely resistent to antibiotics.
Using and not finishing antibiotics can resistance
Yeah I was confused about this too. It is not that the virus is better than the antibiotics that we have. It's that you have trained it. How to be better within your body. Because you never finish your rounds of antibiotics as prescribed. And for a long time, antibiotics were given for everything because it was thought that it wasn't dangerous and people don't really listen when you won't give them something for their virus. But viruses don't last as long, typically, So people rarely finish their antibiotics.
As well as a culture of thinking that it didn't matter if you did sure didn't finish them once you start feeling better.
These viruses are not anymore or less stronger. Your body you individually are more compromised because of your failure to complete your antibiotics full round over your lifetime.
But the way the information is given. You would think that we're creating new viruses that can go from person to person.
It is more that we systemically have had a problem with handing out antibiotics like candy and then not finishing them. I think it really affects those born before 2000.
They have been doing a lot of marketing to get the word out about the dangers of not completing your antibiotic rounds now that I don't think Zoomers and Gen Alpha look at antibiotics as everybody before them did. They are well aware of the danger everybody else was not aware of until it became a common problem that therapies that should work, aren't for a lot of ppl. Antibiotics were handed out like candy, they thought it was the same as a sugar pill for those who didn't really need it.
They were very wrong.
@@user-bl6vb3vk5q no, having antibiotics inaccessible so ppl can't finish them causes resistance
Thank you for posting these historical explorations into forgotten lives. You have an excellent voice, good presence.
Thank you kindly!
The USA has TB still. If you work in a hospital, it's one of those diseases that you constantly worry about. Its not as deadly as it once was, but can still be for people that are immune compromised, like cancer, asthma, elderly and the young.
One of the many reasons that I still wear a face mask when I go into a hospital setting. 🤘
How sad they were very beautiful. Thanks for this interesting but tragic story 🙏
I viewed this on the 10th of January , its nice to think they have been remembered especially in Tiffany design in a stain-glass window but we are more than a “ pretty face” !
my great grandma was a carrier for tuberculosis. she lived to 88 years old, but she did struggle with bronchitis every year. i grew up around her every day, and when i became a nurse i had to be tested for tuberculosis every so often (as did the rest of the staff). i think that's a rule in a lot of healthcare professions. i was always negative luckily because she was only a carrier
If great grandma was a carrier u would have to inhale TB germ since it is airborne by coughing. Carriers of certain illnesses make other people sick not themselves. One reason u probably did not get sick was u were not around her when she was coughing. Here in NYC if u test positive for TB u take a chest x-ray and the medication INH for a year. Even with the treatment u have to take a PPD (TB test) every year. If u have been exposed ur PPD will have a positive result meaning eventhough u have been treated. U were just lucky u were not exposed
possibly, although it was always explained to me as since she didnt have active TB that's why it didnt spread, it was latent@@user-jp1zs8wy5n
My dad was also a carrier of TV but none of us ever got it
My nephew is entering a nursing program and one of the many tests and certifications he must have before starting is a current negative TB test.
Get your vaccine shots, folks!
Teachers have tone tested often as well
That stained glass window is so beautiful! How awful Consuelo also lost her best friend at such a sad time. I hope they reconciled later.
So sad😢 The immunization shots for Tuberculosis were one of the first ones I remember getting. Thanks for the video👍🏼
7:35 It's shocking to imagine that people ridiculed this painting, "Syk Pike" ("Sick Girl") when the artist, Edward Munch, first had it exhibited in the period when Impressionism blossomed in France. The main focus was on the hand of the girl, that was termed to look like "fish pudding", a Norwegian dish I've never had any taste for, perhaps for being a fan of Munch in my early teens. Anyway: That they missed the whole atmosphere in the picture, the mother wasting away in sorrow, and the girl in illness.
You got yourself a new subscriber by the way. Very good content, and you have such a pleasant voice to serve as a narrator of these stories, very good pronunciation of many European languages. I only noticed one small error in it all, pronouncing "scourge" (skörje) as "scrounge" (skranj), two very different things. 🙂
Thank you, from Alv, Norway
I stayed at a bed and breakfast in Ireland and the first thing I saw was “The Scream” as I walked in the front door. It was a bit unsettling.
I have a suggestion for you: Alys Robi. It's a tragic story just the way you like it: from rags to rich and famous to botched lobotomy!
use his email 😉
Thanks for the suggestion. I will look into her!
Reminds me of the Siamese twins, Chang and Eng! Would love to see Forgotten Lives cover Chang and Eng one day!
For sure!
Chang and Eng are not forgotten. There’s a ton of documentaries on them. They’re still at the edges of pop culture consciousness.
5:40 - These two young ladies were so beautiful. What a tragedy for them to die so young.
2:36 - What a beautiful sketch of those two girls!
My Dad was actually born with TB.. His mother blame him for having it!... I was seven when Dad had a massive operation to remove his left lung.. I was screened for years myself unfortunately I had Covid and have been left with long Covid effects my lungs too ...
I saw this before getting ready for bed. I had to stay up to watch your marvelous video before going to sleep. I love your work. You are so talented ☮️💚 in Fleming , NJ Tiffany’s has stained glass windows on display at a glass museum there.
Glad to hear it , thank you !
I love your voice. You sure know how to tell a story. Sad that today (01/10/24) is the 124th anniversary of Nell’s death. Tuberculosis or any illness doesn’t discriminate against wealth. Their actual names where Lady Jacqueline Mary “May” Alva Montague and Lady Alice Eleanor “Nell” Louise Montagu. This was a sad story. I still enjoyed learning about their lives during those times. I love the Victorian era. Thank you.
A few years ago TB and HepC were very prevalent in US prisons, we were warned about public transportation in cities like Philadelphia where TB was picking up as well. It’s just best to wear a mask if you are going to be in crowds now the Covid is going around again in my area I had it in Dec. it was mild, a week long sick but a few lingering problems. I had all my shots + boosters Thank goodness.
Those regular surgical masks do nothing...tests proved it. You need a better mask...the kind painters use
It was mild for you due to boosters.
@@marciaspiegel5280 yes indeed. I serious lung issues & was told I could die if I got any lung related infections so I have gotten all shots possible.
Your ability to correctly pronounce languages is remarkable and much appreciated. I frequently cringe while watching CZcams channels where pronunciation is atrocious. And AI narration is often no better. Another wonderful history!
Thank you for your kind words!
He didn't pronounce the word " heiress" correctly
@@nelliesfarm8473maybe that’s not the way it’s pronounced in the Bible Belt but over here in England it’s perfectly pronounced
@@nelliesfarm8473he did.
Those kinds of channels you're speaking of boil down to being illiterate. Standards of literacy have been in a headlong free fall most drastically for about the last ten years, it seems to me. While I'd say Forgotten Lives presents as somewhat refreshingly literate, there's a bit of room for improvement. I noticed just a few words that were a little off (& one of them could have been "heiress" as mentioned in other replies here, I don't remember, but still nothing to get in a twist about, & likely due to differences between British & American English) but the only word I really noticed as being an egregious mis-pronunciation was FL saying "scrowge" instead of "scourge" while reading, closer to the end of the video. Not enough to really take anything away from the overall quality of the video, which was well presented & an interesting story, but like I said, there's room for improvement.
I just wanted to say that I’ve been listening for a while now and I really enjoy your channel (I listen). I appreciate the simplicity and dignity of your story telling and for me it’s a great combination of history and what I’d almost consider pop culture. Random - I live in the US. I was tested for TB in 1983 when I contracted a cough that wouldn’t go away. I was young and wasn’t living a very healthy lifestyle. (I had fun though.) I was sent for testing to a TB Sanitorium just outside Chicago. I didn’t have TB. Eventually, the cough just went away.
Bonus: For anyone from Illinois, the sanitorium, which might be gone, was near the Leaning Tower of Niles.
I'm from Illinois and never heard of either. Crazy hidden histories we have in the states.
There are many communities in Africa where TB is still rampant. Often infecting whole families. With mutations spreading that are extremely resistant strains. Traditional antibiotics don't work at all and the medicines they must try have such debilitating side effects many sufferers can't tolerate them. The death toll is high. Many who die are very young.TB remains a scourage on humanity.
And coming to a town and city near by in the USA thanks to unvetted "migration".
@@georgiaamanatides4207 People from places with high communicable disease are carefully screened before getting on a plane. It would be akmost impossible for someone with active TB to get a passport. And would not be allowed on a plane.
The only person I've heard of, years ago, who did fly with TB was not from Africa. He was identified as ill and the plane did not land in the US. All passengers and crew were checked and quarantined. No one got sick
The people of the villages I mentioned live in extreme poverty and are very isolated. Far from the modern cites. They are too sick to work or to travel. All they have are their families. And their loved ones are there. They have no reason or means to come here. Relax.
@@georgiaamanatides4207That's bull. Tourism is equally responsible for spreading disease. It was early Europeans who brought diseases to Native Indigenous people around the world including North America. You're being an historical revisionist due to your obvious racism tho'
Thank you, Forgotten Lives for publishing another spectacular video. I was hoping for something interesting to watch as I chill out in my bedroom. Tuberculosis sounds like an awful disease to catch.
Those poor girls! Tuberculosis really is a horrible way to go. It starts in the lungs gradually weakening the person's ability to breathe properly, and then eventually the other organs start shutting down because as it becomes harder and harder to breathe oxygen can't circulate in the blood. So as the blood cells gradually die off the major organs shut down since they can't get enough oxygen rich blood. This is what causes the "consumption" of the body. The worse it gets the more they waste away until they finally die. Was even blamed at different times throughout history for Vampires
@@LotusStitchandSketch Goodness, this is a terrible disease to catch. Without proper treatment it's truly a death sentence. Sadly, from the comments on here it's still rather active today. ☹️
Thanks for all the support !!
@@ForgottenLives You're welcome Forgotten Lives. It wonderful to support you.
@@ChildfreeMatto absolutely. People say the plague was an awful way to go but I'd still rather die from it than have TB. TB can sometimes take years to get to that point. At least the plague is a much quicker death, most people died within a few days to a week of becoming infected with it. Nowadays thank the Gods there is a test you can take to see if you have it and if you do have it there's medication for it. what's more annoying now is that you can sometimes have it but have it be dormant and not have the symptoms one day and then all of a sudden have it activate. It's recommended by the CDC that people are tested every 4 years.
Tubercle bacilli are quite contagious. People with weak immune systems are more susceptible. I had it many years ago. I was thirteen years old but l looked seven. My mother came from a small German town in Romania where TB was still a death sentence. I was sent to a sanitarium. The doctor told me if l ate well (until then l was a very reluctant eater) l would be out in 2 years. I ate with great gusto and was out in 7 months. The other patients got 26 pills a day and a (weekly) streptomycin shot. I only got pills. That was over 70 years ago. I have a scarred lung, but l never had a relapse and l breezed through Cov..d, no injection required.
Such beautiful pictures accompanying this story
Glad you think so !!
I wonder why only some members of a family and not others caught TB? Often a wife might die of it, but the husband didn't catch it. Or a sister but not their siblings. What kept other members of a family from catching the disease? Perhaps only a doctor who specializes in TB could explain it.
Wow, I live in Dunedin New Zealand the Otago daily times is our newspaper and today is 10 th January
I live for this channel! Absolutely love your content! ❤❤
You and I both my friend, and for a reason, we get it!!!🙏😢
I absolutely love June's Journey! Started playing back when the pandemic hit. What a delight to see you mention the game in your video 🥰🥰🥰
I also enjoy it 😄
Thank you for your work!❤
Love your Videos! ❤ Great work FL! 👻🐾🙏✌️
I don’t know if y’all take suggestions, but I just watched this and then re-watched your excellent video on the Mitford Sisters. I was wondering if you might want to do another sister video? I have always been interested in the history of entertainment, and the Seven Sutherland Sisters of sideshow fame have always peaked my interest. Unfortunately, the few videos I have found on CZcams thus far are short and not the sort of in-depth biographical videos you do on this channel. These ladies have truly become forgotten, and I think they deserve better.
I always take suggestions! Thanks for watching and I have already covered them on the channel!
As an American, it's hard for me to understand why it seems the dukes didn't have jobs. It appears they were just playboys. No wonder they started losing their money and had to marry rich American daughters.
Most of them did not have jobs, per se. Instead, their income was supposed to come from their estates, included were farms, forests, manual factories. Far too frequently, the tasks involved were simply beyond the abilities of the nobles involved. Plus, many were deeply in debt.
The gilded age American Princes and Princesses were no different. Living off Grandpa Railroad’s trust fund?
Dukes, did have jobs, as members of parliament in the House of Lords. But many wasted their income.
You probably also don't know that a lot of the descendants of Cornelius Vanderbilt didn't have jobs either. That's why the money dwindled. Most rich people don't like to work. Actually most people don't like to work but if you're rich you don't have to work 🤔
This is so sad. Consuelo's life was terrible enough, and on top of that she lost both of her daughters so young.
You're looking more and more like Elvis the older you get. ❤ I adore your work and you're a great story teller.
Excellent Video, as Always! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Amazing channel should have a series on 📺 as I would tune 🎶 in daily or weekly
Thanks!! One day ;)
Right? He's better than anything on paid cable.
My gr-grandfather died of consumption contracted at the World Exposition in Chicago (I think it was) in the 1890s. A lot of people went home with it and caused it to be spread thruout their home areas. My aunt had it in the 1940s and was very concerned that it was having a resurgence in the early 2000s. So many of the women hospitalized with her did not survive it. I had to be tested when I went into a nursing home for a short stay. Very dangerous disease still. We've become blase about it.
Always interesting
Thank you
I just love your work and choice of subjects. Thank you!!
Thank you for this very informative history of the past. Very sad though. You are really good with your knowledge and narration. Keep it up your great work. Ps: Sorry i was sleeping when you upload the video!
Thanks again! Hope you are well!
@@ForgottenLives
You are welcome! I am trying to do my best, almost there. 🙏You!
How sad.
Fascinating as always,the window is very beautiful & the only stained glass window by Tiffany in England. Though dreadfully short,their lifestyle was as near to "jet-set"/"celebrity" as it was possible in those days,the logistics of "coming out" in both NYC & London involving transatlantic travel,in great style. I have a scrapbook from a great aunt born around the same time,who lived a similar lifestyle, to see not just photos, but,menu's dance cards,dress designs etc really brings an extra dimension to stories like yours which are so well researched & illustrated. Thank you for the time & effort,it's much appreciated. Wishing you&yours the very best & a Very Happy New Year.
I truly enjoy your channel ❤
Love your videos bud, they are great to relax to. Your voice could melt ice..
I thoroughly enjoy these educational and entertaining stories, especially before bed. They help me unwind. I work in a nursing home and a TB test is required before employees can start working!
Thanks and watching! And interesting to know!
My grandfather worked as a orderly at a state hospital on Long Island. Three men came on his ward, they had TB. Normally patients were screened for TB but these three went on Grandpa’s ward. Grandpa came down with a mild case of TB and stayed at home recuperating, up to a year.
Subscribed! I have been enjoying the unique aspect of the stories you share, and the very mellow presentation style you have, for someone so young! Cheers, and here's to continued interesting topics, so strongly featuring women's history!
Thanks!!
I have never heard that about Alva. Alva even went on to name her own daughter Consuelo after her best friend. Consuelo Yznaga slept with Prince Edward not William Vanderbilt.
Her daughter Consuelo was born in 1877 so a long time before they fell out!
There is a really good book out there about the relationship between Alva and her daughter Consuela written by Amanda Mackenzie Stuart
Thank you, my mother 99 years young talks of family members who died of t.b. im australia & in the early 1960's we had eradicated t.b. through t.b. clinics.they were very pretty young girls.
My grandmother's mother passed away at 28yrs old of tuberculosis, when she was 5 and her little sister was only 8months old. She has a picture of her and her baby sis sitting on their mother, on her bed, when she was sick. She passed away about a week after the pic was taken. I was shocked when I found out she was actively sick w tuberculosis when the pic was taken, the babies sitting on her! She said she wasn't sure if they knew it was so contagious through air, which surprises me. This would've been about 1932
Beautiful girls , how sad . I am binge watching forgotten lives. It’s better than anything on television. In Uk .
So sad, they seemed to have it all. It always saddens me to see those so young pass before having a chance to live to experience so many of life's blessings. It also breaks my heart for the parents having to bury their children. It doesn't matter if it was more common back then, the pain was just as great to them I am sure.
Interesting as always. Thank you
My pleasure!
What a wonderful story teller you are. I enjoy your tales very much.
Thanks for the video and for the work you had to put in it.😊
Excellent as usual 😊
Thank you :)
Wonderful content 😊
Another great video FL
Much appreciated :)
Always a pleasure ❤
My dear! Exceptional and wonderful as always! But equally as sad and tragic! I love your channel so much!
If I may offer also , a small suggestion ( not at all criticism) as a small help to you in the future.. the word”scourge” is a strange one to say, but it rhymes with “George”…❤
Thank you!! And yes I misread it 😞
I was diagnosed with TB in 1994.
Very well done video
You do a wonderful job on your videos! You English is excellent, and your voice is pleasant; your accent is charming.
Thank you. ❤
I had tuberculosis when I was about 6 or 7. It sucked.
I enjoy your channel very much!
Thank you :)
Your research and attention to detail really shine through in your videos. Plus you present each case with dignity and empathy. I will also be subscribing to your other channel asap. I was unaware of it thanks to YT and the dodgy algorithms.👍💯🤩🥇🎬📱💻📚✒🎤👑
So nice of you, thanks 😊
So very sad.
Those girls were so beautiful.
A horrible shame.
Tuberculosis rates have been on the rise for several years in Nunavut in northern Canada, particularly affecting the indigenous population. For decades indigenous children with tuberculosis were torn from their families and communities and sent hundreds of miles south for medical treatment. Many of those children never returned home and their families were told nothing, many died, some were adopted out to white families.
I was very surprised to come across this video these two girls are my x4 great aunts and the 8th duke is my great great great grandfather. I have pictures of their coffins as well the older daughter is in a rather elaborate coffin.
You are quite a handsome young man, not to mention very intelligent! :))
Yes he's only gorgeous. And very interesting 👍✨️
Hi my Aunt had TB and had to spend 15yrs in a hospital only being visited once a month. It was awful for her. X
She was beautiful, so tragic 😢
On form as usual sir! ❤
Thanks again!
Was it intended that you posted this on the anniversary (eve, depending on where in the world one is watching) of Nell's death? Or is it entirely coincidental?
It was a actually a coincidence, I didn't realize until your comment!
Super interesting 😊
Glad you thought so, thanks for the gift :)
If the story of Artus Van Briggle hasn't already been suggested to you, you might want to take a look at this Art Nouveau ceramist (who also died of tuberculosis at a young age.)
Never actually! Will look into him !!
❤thank you
Smooth transition into the ad
Very interesting
Thank you for this educational video. May they both Rip Amen 🙏.🇺🇸🇵🇷🙏.
Thank you.
My pleasure!
A fun fact the castle they lived in NIreland is home to Tayto Crisp factory where they make snacks and crisps I’ve been their once with my school as a girl it seemed very small for such a prestigious family used to wealth 🥰
Indeed!
Crisps lol sounds so silly. In america we call them chips
@@nelliesfarm8473Chips lol sounds so silly. In Britain and Ireland we call them crisps.
Many castles in Europe are small
Tb is still rife in South Africa.😢😢
That really is tragic.
Your voice is so soothing and melodic. I can’t place your accent, where are you from originally?
Thanks! England! I have a video on ny mixed ancestry on my Ida wood video if you are interested!
❤❤❤
I had TB in 2017 and a scare last year. I live in the border state of Texas.
It took me a minute but I realized that the Consuela in the story is the best friend of Alva Vanderbilt. I think it's kind of interesting that all those name was used as a middle name of one of Consuelo's daughters. Whereas Alva named her daughter Consuela 🤔
My twin boys were extremely ill(RSV) when they were not quite 6mos old. One was diagnosed with pneumonia while the other was not even tested. I bet the other had it for the fact I nursed them both and I did not sterilize my breasts between
❤❤🕊🕊
Poor girls. A friend of mine died from Corona only weeks before the vaccination was released.
I had antibodies in my body against tuberculosis but the X-ray showed I had clean lungs I never got the disease although I was exposed to it and develop protective antibodies I lived in the Philippines as a child and I'm from New York I found out as a young adult by the test you get in your arm I reacted to it But the X-ray showed the lungs were clean further test proved I only had antibodiesI am Really blessed it's It's a deadly disease even now The medicines don't hardly work and they're so old
Sad that these girls did not have the length of life that their mother enjoyed.
My mom had TB and had to have a mass in her lung taken out. She's american, it's not common here or in the west anymore, but she works in healthcare, which is likely how she got it.
TB is rampant in London around Hayes and Ealing. Its brought over from India
Ya no I was thinking I learnt about the name montegue in romeo and juliett and u heard about the name vanderbilt from white chick's both movies portrayed the family as wealthy I winder if the movies names were taken from this story of the twins?
Consuelo Vanderbuilt was named for their mother. As was her Alva's plan to make her daughter a Duchess.