The Rudy Gobert Experiment isn't working
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- čas přidán 25. 11. 2022
- Why have the Minnesota Timberwolves struggled to meet expectations this year? This detailed film breakdown & scouting report analyzes the defensive fit between Rudy Gobert and All-Star Karl-Anthony Towns after their blockbuster trade in the off-season, and looks at why the move hasn't entirely worked so far.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
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Music by Dan Henig (Empire Season)
#ThinkingBasketball - Sport
basically, the problem is a badly coached defense and inattentive defenders, but because rudy is ultra hated he's the first one to be scapegoated. A twin tower scheme can work very well as the Cavs have shown for the past 2 seasons, but it has to be adequately implemented and that hasn't happened
I'm not sure you can realistically compare the Cavs and Wolves. The twin towers on the Cavs are defensively more versatile, where Towns and Rudy are two specialists. For a twin tower defensive scheme to work, at least one of them have to be able to rotate to the perimeter (assuming today's NBA). If that guy is Towns in this scheme, I'm not that optimistic, even ignoring communication mistakes. :(
when you making 50$ million a season you bound to get ridiculed for not playing up to your contract
@@bobbyloveoblock6580 hes supposed to rebound and get blocks, thats it. Is he not doing those things?
You took the words out my mouth no homo
If they want it to work the need to go and watch clips of Tim Duncan and David Robinson back in the day. The original twin towers
Saddest part about the wolves is how it feels like they lost their soul that made them so fun last year
They unfortunately lost a player like Beverley who would hold everyone accountable on the defensive end
What trading Vanderbilt does to a mf
@@jeverettrulz y'all can have him back. Buddy is trash. Just give LA mcdaniels
@@dartkid3666 yall? As in the wolves?
@@dartkid3666 so your poverty franchise can ruin him too ?
I think a video is necessary for the Wolves offensive struggles is necessary too, their reliance on isolation and rejection on pick and roll/fade and ball movement is crazy
Nah. Not crazy. Not “crazy.” /
Can't run a pick and roll with Gobert when he can't score on any mismatches. Also can't run a PnR with Kat bc they're just gonna double off of Rudy. He might be one of the most overrated players I've seen tbh. I've seen offensively limited Centers who were defensive juggernauts. As much shit as people talk about Ben Wallace averaging like 8ppg you could still give him a roll to the rim or a lob to catch. Rudy can't make a jump hook over guys he's half a foot taller than 😂
I saw a game the other night where Ant brought up/got the ball and didn’t pass like 6 times in a row 😂
@@RecapRico Gobert is actually an elite lob threat, but you're right about him not being able to score when he's over 3 feet away from the hoop
@@RecapRico You talk about Ben Wallace as if he's some elite lob catcher (lol 6'8" no vert having ass) when Rudy has the numbers that show he's a great lob finisher himself even with his time in Utah. The inexperience really shows with this group because their best offensive guys are young but don't know how to make opposing teams pay with the proper match ups. And it def shows up on defense since they are so hard wired to have another athletic guy like Vando scrambling to help recover. But they can't be in the right positions to just make it harder for offenses to move the ball around.
8:34 - "Leading to easy offense," Ben says as Vanderbilt looks like he literally died after the dunk attempt
That made me laugh harder than it should have. Vanderbilt looked like an npc glitching into a death animation.
Lmao I was looking for this comment 😭
😂😂😂
It's such a luxury to have Rudy on your team. Players don't even have to try on defense and Rudy will get most of the blame.
ctfu
Patient😷ZERO Rudy🍧Yogurt shut down the NBA: YES, he gets ALL the blame. 😆🍧😆
Yup
trading two good defensive fit around KAT for having someone better defensively than KAT at C but that puts KAT in the worst place for him as a defender was a bad move for a team having KAT as centerpiece (corner stone that gobert cannot be)
PS the blame on gobert it's because he'a a jerk, and french
Dlo’s play has been a massive problem for them this season
The warriors fleeced the wolves in that trade it seems
Exactly. Never seen a player that managed to be a negative impact on the +/- every single game. He’s supposed to be our 3rd option but he plays as good as a bench player. That’s been our problem, then we trade for Gobert who’s hands are rocks, can’t hold on to the ball, can’t shoot, only can play defense and we don’t have enough scoring. Just ant and kat .. not enough especially with j mcdaniels being inconsistent offensively
He will get it going, players sometimes have slow starts, better now than when playoffs come
Didn't thinking basketball literally have a video where dlo was acting like the twolves draymond on D
how did this happen?
he’s been much better recently but you don’t mention that ok
This isn’t the video title I was hoping for as a wolves fan 😞
Me too I’m a Wolves fan
Traded!
Hahaha haha sucks for you guys........oh I'm a knicks fan....😓
But it was the one you were expecting. Lol
You know I thought this would work but man. Sadness
I honestly think Portland would of benefitted the most if they had traded for Rudy. Nurk is a good offensive player but interior defense is the biggest need for Portland this season. The way Billups runs his zone Rudy would have thrived in his system
Well at least Nurkic is playing good rn. Imagining them with Rudy kinda seems like a better version of the Jazz. Maybe they tried and didn't get him but it sounds interesting anyways.
I think Jerami Grant, Josh Hart, and GP2’s combined contracts are probably about the same amount as Rudy Gobert’s alone - so I’d personally rather have the depth
@@Simon_Sez Same, and Nurkic is still decent, Id like them to have another strong big option as well but they looking pretty good right now even without one
I wanted Rudy in charlotte before the whole offseason mess this was as they ended last year with 43 wins and with Rudy they could have pushed 50
Nurkic defending Ben Simmons and Russell Westbrook is HoF level: leave them wide open with the ball in their hands and don't bother at all
Losing Vanderbilt, Pat Bev, and Malik Beasley hurt them really bad. Vandy and Pat Bev especially had that infectious hustle and effort that elevates the floor of your defense
Worst trade in history but it's not Rudys fault
Twolves were a pain for my Nuggets last year because of them, Vanderbilt in particular. Hustle and energy guys really are underappreciated
Beasley hurt the team more often that he did help them. At this point Jaylen Nowell can probably do better as he's scoring about 10ppg off a bench role in 17mpg. The team by January was playing extremely well on defense before the Pat Bev trade. HE didn't solve the Wolves issue last season where they were not great on rebounds or playing against screens. If anything McDaniel/KAT/Ant are used to playing with Vando's energy and miss it so far with his ability to recover. Especially on non Rudy lineups since they got players who are too small and too slow (Bryn Forbes, Kyle Anderson, Taurean Prince). Pretty nice but Vando has zero touch at the rim so he's even worse than Gobert as an offensive option.
Beasley wasn't a huge loss. His personal issues between seasons affected his workouts and his 3pt game wasn't as good last season as it was in seasons before. He's a good role player as a spotty shooter but I felt he was too inconsistent
@@t4d0W JV is 71% at the rim so let's not act like he's Killian Hayes or something. He's a smart cutter and has a decent feel so he doesn't really junk up your offense even if he cant add surplus value like Rudy can as a roll man.
But you make an *excellent* point about Vando's ability to recover and how much they miss it. In the modern NBA, I think the single most important defensively skill is the ability to help-and-recover/close out on shooters. (Most) slow guys and (most) short guys, as you noted, are major liabilities once a defense is in rotation because you can just shoot over them. In the past, guys like Gobert were the ones who could clean up teammates mistakes, but now that teams play outside in, it's guys like Vanderbilt, Draymond, AD (when he's trying), Giannis, Smart, Tatum, etc who can be two places at once and are therefore able to cauterize the bleeding by stopping the ball and forcing the offense to reset.
Although I'll go a step further and say it's not even that they are used to playing with Vanderbilt, they NEED to play with a guy like that who can cover for their own deficiencies. But this is not a one year play. Ant and Jaden do have the ability to be all-nba level defenders and replace what JV brought and if they get to that level, Ant becomes a legit top 10 player, and Finch either figures out how to coach the offense (for the love of god would it kill them to run spain with DLo-KAT-Rudy and weakside action 10 times per game instead of this two-man pnr with 3 stationary guys like it's 2004?) or they find someone who can, they will be inner circle contenders.
Can you do a video on the 2000s champion Pistons defence? Most millennials remember it as the best defence we've ever seen, but wonder if that's impressionistic and doesn't hold up under closer scrutiny.
He has talked about it on length in several podcast episodes if you’re interested. The last one I remember was when Ben gave talked about Finals MVP and said he would have voted Ben Wallace because of how much of a menace he was in the paint
Yeah, pretty sure Ben has talked about them at length. (Although a video would be amazing.) It's both though. Billups and Hamilton were actually better defenders in hindsight than they got credit for at the time and Sheed and Ben are just as good as people remember. That post trade deadline 2004 team was an all-time defense.
That said, they are probably overrated because 1) that team didn't play at an all-time level for very long at all and 2) there were a couple teams in that era who were just as good if not better. The Duncan-Robinson Spurs, Duncan-Bowen Spurs (the team that was actually 1st in defensive rating each year from 2004-2006 over Detroit) and the KG Celtics.
@@michaelahurt I think part of the reason Detroit's defense was so memorable is how competitive they were with what was really a mediocre offense. They nearly won back-to-back championships without either a bonafide offensive superstar or a high-performing offense, so the impact of their defense was really pronounced. They didn't have SAS' defensive metrics, but SAS also had far more balance on the other side of the ball. Detroit had to lean really hard on its defense.
I also think it's worth pointing out that after Detroit won the 2004 title, the league made a bunch of rules changes to open up scoring. This change disproportionately affected Detroit whereas teams like SAS were more able to adjust to the ban on physicality.
@@mrmacross Agree. Because Detroit didn't have an offensive star -- or at least because no one at the time realized Billups was just then becoming an elite offensive player -- fans and writers just gave all the credit to their defense. Especially since the Carlisle teams did lack offensive talent so that was the narrative already. The reality is San Antonio's offense wasn't much better. At least in 2004. But perception is reality in the moment.
The 2004 team post Sheed may very well be the best defense of all time though. They had an 88.3 def rating the last 26 games. And it was 92 in the playoffs. The numbers back up the eye test and our collective memory.
But my point was just that it was really only 49 games they were at that level and they were never again as locked in as they were that first year. Certainly rule changes -- and the Suns changing the league -- played a factor but they really weren't any more physical than Indiana or San Antonio at that time. Having watched damn near every game that team played, the biggest issue, to me, was they tried to be a switch flip team. Especially once Flip got there. From 01-04 that team played so hard every single night but from 05 on they would coast in the regular season and were just never able to recreate that magic from 2004. I always felt Sheed's personality took over the team and they took on his identity whereas before it was Ben's team. But that's just as a fan watching them.
@@michaelahurt I have to admit that I was surprised to look back at the 2003-2004 Spurs and see that their offensive rating was so mediocre. It seems to be a bit of a blip on the radar when you look at their offense in in the Duncan era starting in 1999 ranked 11th, 11th, 6th, 9th, 7th, 15th (2003-2004), 8th, 10th, 5th. But my impression of the Spurs of that era will always be that they played at Phoenix's breakneck pace in the playoffs and beat them, then in the very next round they played at Detroit's stuck-in-the-mud pace and beat them. They were among the most balanced and malleable teams ever, whereas I see teams like PHX and Detroit as a couple squads that would fold if they couldn't dictate the pace of the game.
I think they just need some time. I’ve watched most games and the chemistry is improving every game.
No it’s not
@@DavidChinh it is lmao they're much better than they were to start the season
@@DavidChinh they just lost for the first time in 6 games.
@@schm2818 Cherry pick the win streak all you want, it doesnt change the fact that they are 9th in the Western conference despite the 5 game winstreak, the Wolves are only 6-4 in their last 10 games.
@@DavidChinh You're moving the goalposts. You argued they aren't improving, yet a 5 game winstreak after piling up losses to start the season is a sign of improvement. Doesn't matter if they are 9th in the conference, they were worse to start the season.
I feel bad for Rudy. He went from a situation where he was the best paint defender in the league but was surrounded by 0 good defenders and played with stars that didn’t trust or play well with him to a team where he’s the best paint defender in the league but has 0 defensive help and plays with stars that don’t trust nor know how to play with him. It’s gonna be tough for the Rudy haters to not hate him more after this
Damn crazy how much people love scapegoats
Getting scapegoat for today's game vs the warriors even though kat was also horrible
Rudy, Russ. Guys who get hated for not being able to do everything for their team
@@balls2jawls Russ can't do anything for his team. Lol.
Idk, as a jazz fan I’m really glad we got rid of him.
He’s completely 1 dimensional. That’s inflexibility and requiring your team to basically form around your strengths is something I find deeply flawed in any player.
Mcdaniels is gonna be the key for the wolves and their success
Yes! I really like his game.
YEAH GUY WHO WAS A BENCH PLAYER LAST YEAR NOW AVERAGES 5PPG IS THE KEY YOUR SO RIGHT
@@rs7464_ casual
@@rs7464_ what?
@@rs7464_ you sir are a casual
I really hope they figure it out.
I really hope they dont. Centers are done. This is new age where you need skills to be successful; not just 7 ft athletic size
@@krp6680 This is a weird response, also no Centers aren't done they'll evolve. Centers were dying out in the beginning of the last decade but started to come back a few years ago.
Nah... I like rubbernecking a traffic accident that is the Timberwolves.
@@blue-phoenix115 Lmao.
@@bignoob24 Yeah bigs arent done. You need bigs to be able to guard Jokic, Giannis, Embiid, AD, etc. Good luck getting passed those teams without a good defensive big
Incredible post! Very thorough and so much detail. Keep up the great work!
Always love your videos, thanks so much!!
every single "You Can't Win with Gobert" video on CZcams for three years running now is the same thing:
"It's not working, but, actually, it has nothing to do with Gobert's performance or impact, he's actually performing at a high level, it's because the guys around him won't play defense"
if he was a crybaby who wore his frustration for his teammates all over his face and continuously humiliated them when they lost, and then took all the credit for "carrying them on my back" when they won, perhaps, like some guys, the media and flapping heads out there would give the guy some slack for not being the greatest defender of the past generation who can guard every position everytime down the floor.
btw, you're best on youtube at what you do, you don't need to use clickbait titles, you've rapid ascent is assured.
On CZcams you absolutely DO need to use clickbait titles. I agree Ben is the GOAT, but go look at the variability of views across his videos. No one is exempt from the effect of the algorithm, you have to play the youtube game plain and simple.
7:13 I shouldn’t have laughed so hard at this point, but his personal frustration with Ant making those mistakes was very palpable
This level of understanding of what’s happening on the court is so impressive. I’m getting a great education. Thanks.
Love the in depth look at actual basketball problems with my favorite team. Knoedgeable, objective, and thorough examples of on court issues. Keep up great work from new subscriber!
Imma need u to drop a apology video lil bud
They didn’t need to trade for Rudy and gave up way too much
Your film study is great thank you for this
I think what would really help your videos is to also introduce chapters as sort of a presentation, like when you do top players of 2021(when is top players of 2022 coming out btw?). It may sound redundant but i often lose focus when watching these videos, i don't know if it is too much work for these quick essays, but it would be super helpful to me at least.
2:00 and we now literally know how Gobert’s drop coverage puts so much pressure on the wing guys or guard trying to disrupt the pullup 3s
While he carries 100% of the rim protection(most important form of defense) task/pressure
@@owethunala2632 how about no since most stars right now can and will pull up from 3 if given the space
@@AC2k14GOD anyone who knows anything about defence will understand rim protection is the most valued part
@@owethunala2632 outdated fck
its switching nowadays thats the most important thing in the modern nba you’re not in the 80s 90s anymore
@@owethunala2632 its versatility on defense and switching
if im the timberwolves i'm trading kat and DLo and building around edwards and gobert
They should have traded for Murray. Woulda made it so much easier ditching DLO.
Agreed
Congrats on your collab with the NBA app!
Another great video Ben.
Even if this team isn't able to produce significant results this season, I still think they should run it back next season and not just switch up immediately. They just gotta get more used to playing with each other.
Im just gona say that you're a brilliant analyst Ben
oh really? anyone who would even say something neutral about rudy go-sucks is no brilliant analyst
Great video. Where would you find the stats that show Timberwolves allow the most wide open 3's?
Looking forwards to Minnesota persisting with this and getting good at it
It's the playoffs where this needs to peak 👍
I feel like all these weaknesses of the T'wolves defense was exactly what should have been expected before the trade was made. I feel like a cast of players like this needs extremely good coaches. This team can only be successful if the system of the team is really strong. It's hard to see how this can work with this group.
It doesn't help that as athletic as their point of attack guys are, they aren't disciplined enough on defense. They still have the mindset of running rabid on the perimeter and knowing they have another athletic wing to help and recover like Vando from last year. KAT also has to be consistent since he's not the rim protector anymore so he has to get used being a roamer and not caught off position where he gets a bad match up. Especially if teams choose to bait him and Rudy on a screen at the perimeter. Cuz Rudy can play the drop well but KAT will be ball watching when he has to watch for the corners or wings around his side.
If Rudy is the problem we'd love to take him at Golden State
Solid video yet again!
Would love to see a video on the current state of the Minnesota defense
They just need a little time. Just went on a 5 game winning streak, they haven’t even played 20 games together. I believe they will figure some things out and improve
There's clearly a ton of potential, and I still think this team can get 50+ wins this season. After the all-star break we'll really know what to think here, they just need some time to figure things out.
Hopefully as a Wolves fan I have expectations. We have talent but our coaching sucks (what a shocker) as does our chemistry (another huge shocker)
lol 50 wins is crazy, I would say 40 wins
KG isn’t on the team anymore lol.
50 wins??? 😂😂😂 🤡🤡
@Risan They just came out of a 46 win season last year after starting 4-9, but I do think the west is stronger this year. I think they'll be around 45 wins this season.
Im with my usual questions
1. Top-10 of the last season. Where? Any plans?
2. Top-40 update?
rly good analysis!
I bet you had this one in the works. Waiting for a loss to Lamelo-less Charlotte was smart
And not during the 5 game win streak.....
It's only been about 20 GAMES.... Talk about over reaction. The wolved had a similar record last year
@@toucheyang89Watch the video, he did not overreact at all. He even said most of the problems comes from lack of experience together.
@@toucheyang89 Having a similar record to last year after trading a ton of assets for a player with a huge contract that limits financial flexibility would be a pretty huge problem for them.
@@BobBoican Financial flexibility? Their cap is already being taken up by their two best players long term and WAY beyond Gobert's contract by 2026. Its not a bad thing since KAT is a potential top 30 player and ANT has the making of a top 10 player himself so they are absolutely set on offense. The guys they sent out on the trade were just as one dimensional as the guy they got back in Gobert. Except GObert is pretty elite in his niche. Plus more minute open up for guys like Nowell and McDaniel who are going to play bigger roles this season. The real thing to watch out for isn't GObert this season but can Anthony Edwards take the next step as an elite two-way player.
Damn, this video kinda crazy now.
Dude ! Your videos are crazy !
Thanks for the vid
I got a lot of flack for saying this team wasn’t all they were made up to be. My main concerns over the summer were basically covered in this video.
1. 2 centers who are used to sprinting back to the paint and not rotating to the 3p line is less then ideal in the pace and space era.
2. I also think KAT’s offensive value isn’t the same when a wing is placed on him. 5s usually have different help/screen responsibilities but with Gobert on the floor it simplifies that 5s defensive role.
Wolves have over $400M committed to the center position, and in 2022 that’s not something I can buy into.
What I can't understand relating to your first point is why do they not get into the mentality to sprint to the wing if there's an open shooter? I get that they aren't great perimeter defenders, but in situations like those they have to be able to adapt just to cover the wing for a few seconds. I don't know if it's stubbornness or a lack of effort, but excusing those lapses of defense with "they are used to running to the paint" is ludicrous. Like cmon, they are the elites of basketball players worldwide and they can't run to the corner for a second? I'd be pissed if I were a Timberwolves fan.
@@joecon601 i definitely oversimplified it in a YT comment but essentially 2 players who have been 5s their whole lives have natural tendencies to sprint to the middle in live ball situations.
it’s not a every time down thing but this is one of the growing pains of adapting to something that feels foreign. it’ll improve but there’s moments where there natural instincts kick in and they give up a quality look.
@@nmzhoops I agree with you. Kat had a big advantage in running a lot of centers off the floor with his spacing. It gave Memphis a lot of trouble since Adams was basically unplayable.
@@joecon601 it's not that easy. When you have certain actions drilled into your brain by thousands upon thousands of hours of practice, you need a conscious effort to do something else. But you have so many things to think about during a game that it is extremely difficult to actually make that decision, especially since the brain struggles during a physical effort
Fr if you’ve got $400M committed to the center position it had better be like Jokic and Embiid/Bam
They have the potential
I believe it’s coaching and the chemistry in the team just like brooklyn nets with high profiled players
I've wondered why don't teams put ball pressure on the point guard full court to eat up the shot clock and to also to help with pre switch?
The almost crazy thing is that the Jazz are nearly defensively just as good without Gobert
Well duh, they got rid of Mitchell and bogdanovic
You know who I blame? It's the incredible amount of talent in the league right now.
Not one person wants to start that convo. Strange.
@@poly_g6068 damn near every team in the west is contending that crazy to think out
Yup. I live in Sacramento and even I'm impressed by the talent level on the roster despite being a quiet market. Kids just start getting the professional training regiment so early these days.
East>Western conference in 2022.
Problem is they're over paid and they under play.
Can you do a video about the great Warriors team from 1974-1975 who beat the Chicago Bulls and Washington Bullets for the Championship? Rick Barry, Keith Wilkes, Derrek Dickey, George Johnson, Clifford Ray, Butch Beard, Charles Johnson, Charles Dudley, Phil Smith, and Al Attles head coach.
Those warriors teams are forgotten compare to the TMC warriors
This can be fixed with time as players get more comfortable switching schemes quickly.
Didn't they just win 5 straight?
Bro must've made this before the winstreak and waited until one more loss
Addendum time
Well, they were mostly facing teams full of injuries during that 5 straight, so it doesn't matter that much.
It feels like they are finding ways to Blame Gobert bec his teammates are bad defenders.... this is the same situation in Utah
You are right, none of the Jazz players played defense with the exception of Rudy Gobert. Donovan Mitchell was a horrible Defender and was the reason that the Jazz always lost along with poor coaching. Then they all would blame Rudy.
@@themainstreetremedy6146 Now its just that they have good individual defenders, but they get lost with Rudy.
@@themainstreetremedy6146 nah no no lmfao you clown
@@themainstreetremedy6146 why are they top 6 in defense right now with Donovan then without Gobert??????? with Garland and Mitchell at the perimeter lmfao and these guys are “trash” at defense stfu Rudy dickriders stop the cap and the delusions
@@themainstreetremedy6146 Idk about Mitchell, he playing great D in Cleveland now, so I dont think he is to blame. And Jazz is doing bits now as well. I am not blaming Gobert, but also to say everyone else is to blame is also one dimensional as well IMO
Great video!
Love these videos
I'd swap him for AD he's consistent you know what he brings and you know how to build around him. Like how hard is it to get perimeter defenders I genuinely believe Gobert is a modern Ben Wallace without the team around him
Anthony Davis who plays for the Lakers? Consistent? Is it 2016? He might be the least consistent elite player in the league the last 2 years.
Also, extremely. It's extremely hard to find good perimeter defenders. And they are SO important in a drop scheme. (Really any scheme.) But you are right about the team around him. No matter how good you are, one guy can't carry a defense in the modern NBA. It's about the collective and each guy doing his job and being put in a position where he can play to his stregths.
But the biggest issue with Rudy is he makes way too much for his two-way impact. Smart is $17m, Bridges is $20m, Dray is $26m and Rudy is $38m.
Consistent ? He's injured most of the time and why would the wolves do that.
I will watch this video tomorrow, but as a Wolves fan who watched almost every single minute of Wolves basketball this season, I can say Rudy is our best or 2nd best player and not even close to being our biggest problem
He always looks like the problem, thats the sad thing. But maybe if they play really bad, they have a shot at getting Wemby, Rudy's pall.
Totally agree, gobert isn’t the issue.
You didnt trade all your assets for Rudy to "not be your biggest problem". You traded it so he could be your biggest solution, which he isnt.
@@Nathan-zd8ew Exactly. If you give up that many players and draft picks for one guy that one guy's play better translate to parades at the end of the season. Clearly there won't be a parade at the end of the season in Minnesota.
Is there any team that would want De'Angelo Russel? The wolves needs a fast defensive 2 guard which is hard to find without having to give up a pick.
absolutely tho the Wolves offensive struggles is necessary too, their reliance on isolation and rejection on pick and roll/fade and ball movement is crazy
Or is it just 20 games and even a down season doesn't prove anything. They just need to build chemistry and learn.
Tough to judge the Timberwolves atm and they look alright and done some interesting trades before the deadline.
That's what I was thinking before the regular season. Having Dlo and Kat next to gobert is gonna cause defensive problems. They're not used to being at point of attack defenders
They're also not used to defending, just as a general statement.
I really like the Rudy experiment, and I think with experience, further experimentation, and better communication, the t wolves will be good.
I feel like the overly complex scheme is an issue, and they should try something closer to a Zone. With Rudy on the left low post, and KAT on the right but further up, close enough to the perimeter to contest a corner 3.
Which teams currently in the NBA run a zone defensive with two bigs??
It’s not working yet but in the past six games they are 5-1 so I think they are improving
Yeah the timing of this video is interesting. I'm not sure if this video is as timely if it isn't uploaded immediately after a loss to snap a 5 game winning streak. Full disclosure, I'm a Wolves fan and extra sensisitive about criticism about this Gobert experiment. I do trust the analysis on this channel, so this hits a bit different 😳
Only good win in the 5 games was the pacers. They beat a bad magic team and every other team was missing 2 of its top 3 players.
Thoroughly enjoyed this.
it’d be nice to see a video comparing the double big lineups of minnesota and cleveland and comparing their schemes and why cleveland’s is much more effective on that end
Bro forget a scheme, even if they ran the same exact scheme Jarret Allen and Mobley are faster then gobert and Kat. Plus there both willing to leave the paint to contest threes
They traded 5 players and 4 picks for Gobert and their master plan was to turn KAT into a 3pt shooter 🤣
Lol kat wants to be a shooting guard anyway
6 first round picks.
The problem with Rudy Gobert is the same problem Ben Simmons has in the meta game.
Paying a ton of money to 1 or 2 superb defenders doesn't work anymore. You need 3 to 4 good defenders to cover all avenues of attack, or you'll just catch the offense attacking your weak point over and over.
Ben Simmons is a perennial all star and much more versatile than Gobert.
@@Thanosdidtherighthing 1) Rudy is also a perennial all-star. 2) Ben may be a more versatile in a vacuum, but he too is a very specialized offensive player who needs to be a specific role to thrive.
But the point still stands. If you have, for instance, Marcus Smart making $17m, you can go out and get Malcolm Brogdon and Al Horford and pay Tatum and Brown. (Although drafting well helps too.) When you are paying Rudy $38m, you do things like including Jared Vanderbilt and Patrick Beverly in the trade to make the money work and now you don't have enough good defenders.
Gobert being on the floor creates a weak point. If you say screw it and put a stretch 4/5 out there as your center, you’re going to generate open shots against Gobert. It’s not a winning formula in the playoffs where teams will spam whatever works.
@@michaelahurt Exactly. That’s where I say Gobert is grossly overpaid. The results back it up. It’s not fair to expect him to defend the whole floor but it’s not fair to pay him 1/3 of the cap and tell the teammates they need to defend just as well as him for things to work
such a good analysis
The best big duo in my eyes is the cavs' with both players able to protect the rim and occasionally guard the 3 because they are agile.Bucks have the second best because Giannis is a big strong dude who can defend everyone and Lopez contests every short range shot.
Minnesota have to figure out the switches because drop coverage against a good outside-shooting team expose them on D.In today's basketball defending the 3ball is the difference between playoff teams and true contenders.
And with that swing from the T-Wolves getting Rudy for the foreseeable future you have committed to this style.
Feels bad for Rudy, this trade never made sense to me. Offensively and defensively. I was hoping Dallas or Atlanta traded for Rudy since his fit there was probably going to be much better. Hoping the best for Rudy on the wolves, I rate him highly and think he's awesome.
he would be way more likable and attract teams if it wasnt for his ugly contract, you can never build your team around a center who has zero offensive game.
@@ayubseeed exactly, especialy in today's game.
Nobody wanted to trade for that overpriced contract
Regardless of where he ends up a championship isn’t in the cards. He has to limited of a skillset and costs too much money
Poor Rudy.
8:35 "easy offence"
*player immediately dies*
So no footage of the stretches when they were playing well? I mean, it's not perfect now but it's substantially better than these early season footages
Wolves need this trade to work or else they fumbled the bag badly for their future. It’s already bad how many picks they gave up for Rudy, but to do that and the trade flops is catastrophic
am i crazy to think that a trade where you give up KAT for ayton and a first round from pheonix, is a good idea?
i think we should look at it in 6 months again. give them time i think a team should always get half a season to establish and perfect a new system (for example Boston last year)
Gobert probably the most underrated nba player in this era
Gets you double digit rebounds, spikes your defense up and can give you double digit points. All he needs is 2 guards that can get you buckets and 2 forwads that can lock the perimeter. Clippers/ Warriors would be perfect for him.
After 3 DPOYs and a massive contract I don't think he's underrated anymore.
Still waiting for a video on the best offense in league history by the ☘️
Hows that top 10 coming along?
@DazeOfNoah 8 games? The Celtics are 19 games in. That’s still early enough that you don’t need to lie to make your point
@@dazeofnoah22h we’re actually about 20 games into the season aka around 1/4. Also, I’m pretty sure that TB posted videos on other players and teams with fewer games that took place.
Stick to snacks.
@@dazeofnoah22It was 16 straight and the Celtics were 6 minutes away from the NBA Finals that season.
Are you a Lakers fan? You seem highly unintelligent and whiny!
@@dazeofnoah22 Translation: you got schooled by people who actually know basketball and basic facts so you’re reduced to reading Lakers Reddit comebacks.
1:55 "low percentage shot" WTF? A wide-open three-pointer is an excellent *efficiency* shot. Low in percentage, sure, relative to what?! It's
I was expecting this, no surprise
I think they need to trade KAT and keep Gobert.
They both are overrated but I agree. Idk Kat’s trade value tho, especially after signing the super max. I would stay away from him, his intangibles are low and is a losing player with little flexibility
This hasn't aged very well lol.
cuz Rudy made a big step defensively on the perimeter
I think these miscommunication mistakes will be fixed by playing more with one another. The scheme looks like it relies more on quick judgment, better acquired with more reps, especially with the new personnel
@Thinking Basketball - I'm a HUGE Nets' fan who is dismayed by how my team has imploded since "The Clean Sweep." We play skinny Power-Forward Nicolas Claxton at Center and Small-Forward Ben Simmons at Point-Center.
Sean Marks and Tim Connelly should consider swapping their issues on December 15th: we take Gobert and D'Angelo Russell, they take Kyrie Irving, Joe Harris, and Patty Mills.
What say you?
Need to break it up, wrong mentality with their future stars
Videos like this make me wonder what they even do at practice
I am still waiting for the Celtics episode. When is it coming up? They are on fire
Forget everything else in the trade - as soon as I saw that the T wolves lost jarred Vanderbilt I knew they were not going to end up well - he was so crucial to their defense last year
Make a video about the offense as well. That might be more concerning for the wolves
What offense?
Lol I’m the comments before I even watch cause I been waiting for this video!
You should do the same analysis for my Brooklyn Nets. Because they are a mess on defense.
I think this is the problem when it comes to trading for defenders. People’s expectations are for them to be this engine but just leads to them not properly scheming around the strengths and weaknesses of that defender. Kinda how Brooklyn look to Ben to be this super floor raiser on defense and yet they can’t make a proper defensive decision (like unnecessary switches). If the Wolves wanna make this trade at least worth it, they gotta reassess what they are doing
Can we see more videos of the opposite of this? teams with switchable long defenders in their front court like the raptors?
Thanks
You hit it on the head with ANT really. He is a great on-baller defender when motivated, but isn't keen chase over screens off ball or simply rotate away from his man. I think he wants to save himself for offense. He needs to commit for the starting 5 to have any chance. On offense DLo needs to be better. I think past the all-star break they'll be a much better team, but they do have quite different schemes defensively depending who is on the floor, where last year they basically had two schemes. This takes time to learn and if they can get it and ANT can be the driver of that, they could be a 50 win club. We'll see though. Players get tired of playing the game to hide Gobert's & KATs deficiencies, it would be very tiring.
Check out how Spain defeated France in the finals of this summer Eurobasket and you will see how well-coached teams can get past Gobert's defence.
Clever clever name for this video.
Give it time. It's been 19 games and we barely hitting December. The experiment has looked good as of late. Still some flaws to kink out but nonetheless it has been working well