Why the Hawks offense isn't working | Enhanced podcast
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- čas přidán 14. 12. 2022
- Atlanta is currently 21st in offensive rating despite pairing All-Star guard Dejounte Murray with Trae Young. In this segment from the Thinking Basketball podcast, Ben and Cody discuss how these pieces don't quite fit right now, and how the offense the Hawks are running doesn't necessarily maximize all their talent.
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#ThinkingBasketball - Sport
Honestly, all these stacked teams like the nets and new hawks trying to use their 2 stars by using the “my turn and then your turn” iso strategies really makes me appreciate how Steve Kerr was able to incorporate Kevin Durant into the already stacked warriors with curry and klay both still needing to put up a lot of shots
Would also like to note that the Celtics coaches have been doing a great job with Jaylen and Jayson
Credit should be made to Stars & Superstar players willing to sacrifice their offensive numbers.
Kyrie, Trae, Westbrook any many other players are not willing to sacrifice regardless of who the coach is
Absolutely, but youll never hear that narrative from 90% of people tjat watch the game, its always "they were super team, they couldnt lose"
People have this huge misconception where they believe that if you have 5 best players in each position, and you put them all on the same team, you would have the best possible team
Which has never worked in any sport ever, you need to have coherent players, superstars definitely do make a difference but having 3 or 4 is not neccessarily better than having 1 or 2 and surrounding that with complementary plays. It worked a couple of times, but it never worked because you had stacked team, it worked because you had stacked team that could play togethet (Lebron in Heat is anither good example)
And it is this narrative that is drawn througj many debates and ruins many peoples perception
There are teams where stars serves their system, there are teams where a system serves their star (like LeBron’s mav), and their are teams with stars but no system.
@@_MM03 yes but also all the star at warriors can play off the ball, like steph and klay even without kd play off the ball a lot and can do catch and shoot and even Kd is good off the ball, but the players like kyrie trae and westbrook need the ball to be affective, so the credit goes to steve kerr for sure and I am not taking anything away from him, but I think their style also match with each other.
@@_MM03 i would never want people like that near my team. If u dont care about winning u cant be on my team, no matter how good u are its about winning thats all
Man, you can see Murray deflate when Young doesn't attack after that pass.
Yeah they have to tell him he probably doesn't even notice
Also a big part is Trae has been shooting TERRIBLY from 3. He's averaging 2 makes on 7 attempts.
True that's been a weird thing with him this season very uncharactaristic ntm they haven't played a single game where their whole roster is FULLY healthy..that's Trae, Collins, Bogi, Dejonte, DJ and everyone else which fills the bench..they've always been missing their full roster this season and counts for alot of their inconsistency..still they do control a significant amount of games and lose focus in the 4th with the majority of their losses but keep into fact my main point
Either he's playing hurt, or he tried to speed up his shot in the offseason and it's throwing off his timing
Steph Curry had a huge advantage: Steve Kerr is one of the greatest 3 point shooters to play the game, and so allowed Steph the freedom to shoot some crazy looking shots. I kind of feel Nate McMillan saw Trae pull up from the logo, miss twice and was like "THAT IS ENOUGH OF THAT." Trae should be moving from corner to hash and back at least, and shooting the second he touches the ball. Murray should be cutting towards the rim, from his corner position. Every reset, every hesitation, every opportunity to catch the D sleeping they should be doing these things. Every time one of them passes the ball out of the screen roll they should swap positions as well. Offense needs much more motion.
@@chiggsytube he needs to change his shooting form it’s inconsistent and inefficient
Has to take more shots his rly a pass first pg
Ben made a good point that when Trae is offball and catches it, he doesn't attack right away, part of why their offense is stagnant even when Murray has created a slight advantage for him.
One of the principles of Steve Kerr's offense, and most motion offenses really, is that upon catch, you have 2 seconds to do something; shoot, dribble or pass. None of this sizing up the defense for 7 seconds stuff.
Exactly. In the NBA being fast/quick as a talent is one thing but weaponizing it where it breaks down defenses is another thing.
problem with dallas, is when doncic is not on the court their offense is horribly stagnant.
I mean look at the bench depth. Dinwiddie is starting so there is no versatile shot creator/playmaker in the 2nd unit.
@@ddragi5934Jalen Brunson is who you’re referring to
@B Bragi he was here for 4 years Mavs developed him and let him walk. So stupid
@@nandomorales43 let him walk? brunson didnt even give the mavs a meeting, he went straight to the knicks in free agency
@@yey862 yeah they let him walk Mavs had two years to extend him and they didn’t
That trampoline potential energy analogy was so spot on and satisfying to hear. I love a good analogy 😌
I've been A hawks fan since 2007 and this year has been the most the worst experience I've had watching the hawks. Honestly had more fun watching us when Dennis Schroder and Taurean Prince where our best players because at least we actually played team ball. The ball actually moved and we had actual plays that got people open. It really looked like Basketball. Never in my life have I just hated watching my own team because the offense was soo bland and boring I couldn't tell one possetion from the other. I get deja vu watching the games and seeing the same thing over and over and over again. How do we have two of the best passers in the league and we don't move the ball???
we just take turns isoing and every bucket takes 110% of everybodies effort
I watched the game against my lakers last night it’s funny to watch y’all offense😂
Couldn’t agree more
Lmao calm tf down ain’t no way this year is the worst
2:25 great observation and its one that I’ve noticed too. Atlanta has athletes yet the stationary offense doesn’t allow them to showcase it often. Barely any backdoor action and easy points are coming from ATL if its not a Young assist or a hot Murray game this year. Y’all gotta shout out my boy Onyeka tho he’s been getting better.
This hawks offense has been beyond inconsistent. And this might be the time to trade John Collins and capela while they have trade value
And it's not even their fault their production has been hindered. When they have two guards with high usage, the rest of the players most likely will have less touches, and will most likely play off the catch to score.
Capela is what is preventing our defense from being bottom 5 lol. Unless we start tanking for Vic (which we won’t) why would we trade Cap?
Nn
@@j-us-t_be-in-g and you honestly have to fault the coach for that more than the players because who the hell would make Murray the clear cut second option if you want to compete for anything😂
Calling it, ayton and crowder for collins and capela
Trae should add some off ball movement to his game like a Steph Curry. the Luka comp is kind of unfair since Trae cant just bully his way to the hoop
I think the point of it is that coming from the same draft class, Luka was able to evolve his game while Trae is unremarkable. Both of them are beasts tho especially on the playoffs.
I think the point was to show how the Mavs are at least making a genuine effort to implement Luka’s improvements and diversity into their playcalling on offense. Trae being the corner man whenever he isn’t initiating the offense isn’t maximizing his skillset
@@nickfowler547 I agree that the Mavs offensive sets are better at least in these examples. Im just saying having a big guard like Luka gives you more options, not to mention he has the ball more.
& that’s exactly my point Trae standing around is not working…
@@yormeaceko7101 theres definitely been a drop in Traes game this year but hes evolved over the prior years. its just the Hawks offense rn doesn’t support growth, rather pigeonholes him. &adding another PG hasnt helped.
@@nickfowler547 its more like the Mavs HAVE a cohesive unit to play ball with Luka's skillsets. Most of their big wings/big men are cutters/screeners/spot shooters and the like. So Luka can always find them when he moves around the half court through screens, hand offs or even posting up mismatches. Also the other ball handlers like Dinwiddie (and Brunson then) can play with the same screening game Luka does as well. With Trae however he just chooses to be a static off-ball threat. It may be in part the design of the coach but even when he can get downhill, he doesn't choose to. Or even when a big is trying to play a 2 man game with him from off-ball he won't try cut to the basket unless he gets the immediate idea.
Trae Young's offensive game is from a game of 2k. Extremely simplistic and repetitive. Trae is such a great creative offensive mind and I would love to see that creativity in full form with more movement off ball.
Exactly! He should attempt to evolve. He can become Curry-esque. He has great offensive pull.
I agree. When I found out about the trade I expected to see Murray running the offense and creating for trae like the warriors do
@@chris7045 Yeah except Trae isn’t Steph, Murray isn’t Draymond, Bogdanovich isn’t Klay and Collins isnt Wiggins
To be fair this is also Nate McMillans fault
@@Anthonydu01630 the hawks on paper should be a decent team but actually watching them play it no where close
Nate McMillans offense scheme is just too simple. He doesn’t have anyone move offball. Every play is made with the focus on 1 player getting the ball. There are no decisions to be made for anyone not named Trae or Dejounte. The offense needs everyone being able to make plays
heliocentric offenses always have a ceiling because the players around the star or starts are 3&D guys or bigman that can only catch lobs or pick and pop out of the pick and roll that can only be effective on offense when the star or starts in this case trae and dejounte create a open shot for them
Timberwolves checking in. Been a rough year as a Wolves fan lol
We have other guys who can create offense - not necessarily who can consistently take over games or anything, but Hunter, Bogdanovic, Collins, and AJ Griffin are all guys who you can feel pretty comfortable giving the ball and telling them to go get a bucket. The offense just needs more motion and complexity. Trae and Dejounte are winners and two of the smartest players in the game, they can certainly handle it. Nate McMillan absolutely saved this franchise when he took the reins his first year but it might be time for him to go.
Thats only true when the star of your heliocentric system can’t do any other things except pick and roll/pop or drive and kick like James Harden or Trae Young, but Lebron, Giannis, Doncic or Jokic can all play of ball (Cut to the rim, set screen, catch and shoot, catch and dunk), they can make any type of passes and they can play in the post, so their offense is less predictable and they are just bigger, stronger, faster and smarter athlete.
So heliocentric system can work but only if your superstar is an All Time great player, Bron, Freak, Joker and Luka Magic all play like Top 10 players All Time and they all have the potential to finish their career as a Top 10 player All Time, but Harden even at his peak wasn’t playing like a Top 10 player, in the regular season maybe he was close but not in the playoffs and Trae Young is not even close.
@@Anthonydu01630 James Harden was a better and more efficient scorer than Luka along with being a better defender lol
@@brianhill2171 definitely can agree on that micmillan offense at times for me is very stagnant and vanilla when he has the personnel to do a bit more
phenomenal editing. It's very impressive how well the clips are correlated what is being said. podcast is already great and the video brings it to the next level
Great content once more . I love your work . Keep it up Ben . At least two contents per week 😭
loving these enhanced podcasts so much
Hawks really need to move onto a more offensive minded coach. Mcmillian was good while he lasted but the nba is about what you will do not what you did do. Time to cut losses and find a coach who can make an offensive system work that has trae and dejounte involved every play even off ball.
W
💯
If he'll get fired, it will probably happen in the off-season, unfortunately for us Hawks fans
this was great man can you do the same break down for others teams offense explaining how well their working i.e memphis, new orleans, denver
Great stuff guys!!
Great intelligent insightful video. I subscribed to your channel after seeing this.
100% agree. The Hawks don’t have an offense Fr. It’s just reliant on two great ball handlers to create. Our scheme doesn’t create the open looks. It just feels tougher and not fluid
For me this feels like budget Harden and Cp3. They gotta figure it out
Actually, they needed a 3 and D player that can protect the perimeter and the 3 point line at 4. Because JC is too slow to switch at defense, trae also a defensive liability, but he can provide us a offensive boost. I hope they trade JC while he still has value, he does'nt fit in 2 point guard system.
Thank you for this
Great outlooks thanks!
I was never able to put my finger on why some players seem to flow more with the offense than others and you guys finally identified it - a catch and slasher. Some players catch the ball and then look to attack while others like Maxey and as a Knicks fan, I notice Quentin Grimes does this too, attack on the catch.
Tony Parker was notorious for being schemed up to attack/make play on the catch. The Loops were designed for him to move off ball so he can have his defender behind him so he can get the ball at the elbow going downhill. From there he can either finish all the way with his speed and maybe catch a FT, or if the defending big shows to stop him on his path, he'll dime up a cutting big like Splitter or Duncan. Big reason why this is beneficial to these quick guards with fast steps is because they don't have the strength/size to be physical if a big wing defender was sticking to them from the perimeter.
@@t4d0W it makes sense now. TP always seemed to get by his primary defender without any noticeable one on one move, it just shows you how much a good org can maximize their players strengths. I didn't watch basketball back then the way I do now but it's fun to see the game on a different level now.
MAXEY IS GREAT AT THIS he’s like a fireball going downhill when he gets the ball
Nate McMillan is good for teaching fundamentalments but eventually we are going to need an Xs & Os coach. Similar to the Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr swap.
The Celtics Duo of Jaylen and Jayson suffered a similar experience with how they played but the coaching staff found a game plan for both of them to thrive while also increasing ths ceiling of the team as a whole.
However the positions they play as pairs are very different. Trae and Murray being intelligent crafty guards will find it harder to pair together than 2 Forwards that can play off of the ball on both sides of ths court. Plus having two point guards needs to be a hyper explosive offense to make up for the hole in defense having two guards on the court (though Murray is a great defender). They need to do what Boston does on offense with the off ball playerz constantly moving, and abusing their high basketball IQ to confuse the defense more. Slashing/cutting with purpose.
It is easier for the Celtics lineup to do their thing because technically they all play like big guards who can put the ball on the floor once they get the pass or cut. The Hawks lineup wise don't really have a passing big man role or guys just cutting to the hoop outside of designed screens to get a roll man. Hell the Hawks traded Huerter to the Kings who has now become instrumental in making their spacing game harmonious between Saba, Fox and the rest of the wings.
@@t4d0W Yeah youre right, they need a passing Big man, or a big man that can spread the floor to open up lanes. Myles Turner is a super solid center that is capable of shooting and shot blocking that would probably open up the Hawks offense
The hawks need guys that can create their shots and an offball threat, that was the purpose of having 2 point guards in your team
Thanks for the vid
This is exactly why Nate McMillan needs to go find a creative offensive mind to put on his staff instead of his old head boys and his literal son. If he can't do that, then he needs to go as head coach
Hawks can still improve, but who can you hire for McMillan mid-season who will fix problems
@@samarthbhatnagar347 Kenny Atkinson or Ime Udoka are the best bets
Joe Prunty is a very competent offensive coach. Nate McMillan simply doesn't listen to him, and when he has it has worked out quite well. Nate let him draw up the play when AJ Griffin hit that buzzer beater over Chicago.
@@ForMindlessConsumption Prunty ain't got the chops for this head coaching spot, so this doesn't help us. Fire Nate into the Sun
@@316ray2 both are not available
Great content ❤
pretty much everything that makes dejounte special was already prevalent on this hawks roster.
Relying on ‘Ice Trae’ Jacking Up Shots was NEVER going to be an Effective GamePlan … 🤷🏿♂️. 🏀
Fax, which shows you how truly Steph Curry is! Because on some nights the Warriors can survive, they’ve been living off it it this year and they’re not ded like the Hawks! Sorry Hawks fans but I know yall wanted Trae Young to be the next Curry but he’ll or nobody else will come close to his shooting ability and impact!
@@Grievous_ Would it be fair to call Trae a good player, but not someone you’d build a team around?
@@fortynights1513 I mean if we give the team curry had I’m sure he how would dominate the same way..give trae 60 screens a ge
Ask Knicks fans😂
The Hawks should study tape w Monta Ellis and Steph Curry to see how they can play with the roster they have. Very similar lineups, but Hawks just have more offensive versatility
I mean that offence wasn’t good either from memory, none of the mark jackson teams had a good offence - which seems criminal when you have Steph on the roster
That trampoline analogy is incredible lmao
Trampoline analogy was on point 😂 💯
They might simplified their off-ball offense strategy just because they want Trae Young to become a better ball-dominant offensive core. In some cases, players who don’t need to run the tactics that guarantees collective efficiency, can finally get the freedom to work on their individual crafts better, like young MJ in Chicago. But in Trae’s case, they do need to add more off ball movements to their shooters and cutters.
Then I feel that is a mistake because moving shooter threats have shown to have versatile ways to break down defenses. Of course they are only as good if other players are going to cut to the basket or set another movement for a scoring threat. The Kings video done a week ago or so is a good example of that with them copying concepts and applying it to their 3 main ball handling threats in Huerter, Sabonis and Fox and how they can move the ball around for everyone else.
Off all offense this year has been so good to watch
That play at 6:20 perfectly describes tons of NBA players today. They just won't be anything but what they are. Fine are the days when trae young notices this play and attacks of the dribble. For him, that was in high school or something. "Give ME the ball, set ME a screen and roll to the basket or fade to an open door and wait." That's trae young. Don't even blame him... Also, don't expect anything more from him either.
Great trampoline comp
Bro can someone just email this to the Hawks GM or some shit? Where’s the publicly available email?
As much as the hawks have been inconsistent they haven't played a single game where their whole roster is FULLY healthy..that's Trae, Collins, Bogi, Dejonte, DJ and everyone else which fills the bench..they've always been missing their full roster this season and counts for alot of their inconsistency..still they do control a significant amount of games and lose focus in the 4th with the majority of their losses but keep into fact my main point
Oh man, this cut off just before we got to the cutting edge trampolining content.
I haven't seen anyone mention Nate McMillan. Very mid as an offensive coach
I would really like to see what would Trae could do in an offense where Murray is in the process of creating a play.. sometimes spacing is what you should do, not saying you should just be a stagnant guy in the corner
Finally, some good trampolining content
Tbh what separates Curry from Trae is that Curry has one of the best, if not the best off the ball movement. Guarding him isnt just figuring out his handles... you need to chase him all day. You take your eyes off of him, he is WIDE open. By doing that, Curry is creating massive offense for the team and confusion for the opposing team. Trae.... you need to move.
Hawks have too many players standing motionless on offense. They're ceiling is the play-in.
So is it a coach problem or player fit problem? Both guards have been putting up numbers but hasn't really translated to more wins.
Coach
It’s both
Nothing is just one way or the other, but I've had enough of Nate honestly. He's a great leader but he gotta hang up the coaching part. Bro told the media he personally visited Trae over the offseason to work on off ball shit, and I saw a flash of it for maybe 5 games. Nothing since
Limited to his size, Trae wont attack on the basket. He either evolves as CP3 to punish defence through efficient mid range or runs through sets to shoot 3.
CP3 Sample size and build is what he needs to follow
"It's all that wasted potential energy"....well said..
They gotta get a better coach. This was the celtics offense a few seasons back.
Luka will be averaging 10+ assist per game if the shooters are actually making their shots
The hawks really miss John Collins right now
Not like he helped when he was healthy... (not his fault mostly)
And Dejonte, do realize they haven't played a single game where their whole roster is FULLY healthy..that's Trae, Collins, Bogi, Dejonte, DJ and everyone else which fills the bench..they've always been missing their full roster this season and counts for alot of their inconsistency..still they do control a significant amount of games and lose focus in the 4th with the majority of their losses but keep into fact my main point
There was a golden opportunity to put some footage of trampolining in, which was sadly missed.
This has a lot to do with Nate McMillan
But it also has a lot to do with Trae.
@@gazelemcadizal7774 the offense plummets when he sits. Trae gets some blame for missing shots and 1 dimensional offensive approach, however when you dominate offensive on/off numbers annually with the roster they have on paper you have to look at the coaching talent they’ve put in place as well if not more since coaches are liable for how productive every player is on the court.
@@idkhoop of course the offense plummets when he sits, what do you think is gonna happen when the entire offense has to be built around one player due to that one player not being effective being played any other way, and then take out that player?
@@back2back379 Players should still be able to be maximized. All that happens when Trae Young sits is lack of execution from everyone else. You’re saying “of course” like its an obvious occurrence, but Trae Young still has to be good enough to run an offense in the first place. Plenty things to critique Trae about but this mid offense is on the staff imo. Despite all this talk about lack of movement they’re a top 10 offense.
@@idkhoop W
in my opinion, the way the hawks will improve is if trae young gets better off ball. his playmaking and on ball scoring to me isnt gonna get much better but if he doesnt become a better off ball scorer, the team will remain stagnant.
Come ooonn don't cliffhang us with those trampolining tips!!
Crazy how high level they were just 2 years ago on that great playoff run. Always thought it was just getting their defense up to par but they never innovated and have seen very minimal growth from any of their roster
We traded for another PG so we could have elite ball movement all game.. so what do thise 2 PGs do you ask? Iso and the occasional pick n roll
There are a number of factors from the coach the GM and our star players.
the Coach has to get this team starting out better and finishing better.
Trae Young has to learn to play off ball but, the main problem is the GM I like Travis before the season but now I might hate him you traded all our three-point shooters away we have no spacing on offense at all. terrible to watch 😢
Teams with players with usage numbers topping the league never really win, because those guys get injured/fatigued and then the team has no tools with them off the floor. Whenever they're off the floor, the other team exploits this and scoring goes way down. Furthermore, in the playoffs, teams just target that guy during their offensive sets to get him tired to disconnect him on the offensive side of the ball. Run defensive plays where you guide them into traps, man-zone hybrid defenses, etc.
Being a Sixers fan, I know why the Hawks AND the Wolves suck so much. Hawks remind me of the failed Simmons/ Fultz backcourt experiment. Wolves remind me of the failed Embiid/ Horford frontcourt experiment lol. Always felt like Gary Trent Jr. would be the perfect backcourt fit with Trae. He has DJ's defense with a complimentary off-ball game
He doesn’t have DJM defense 😂
@@BruceNorrin he’s averaging .1 less steals than him per game 💀
@@gilligan9849 if you think that getting steals equates to overall defense i dont have anything else to talk abt
@@BruceNorrin you didn’t have anything to talk about to begin with
This is why Steph is so good.. the comparison of Trae Young and Steph isn't fair.. the main reason why Steph is so good is his off ball movement, he pulls so much gravity just by moving. But it's also the coaching in my opinion, the coaching doesn't seem to know what they want to do with the offense
It’s the coaching. If you switch Trae and Steph making steph play in the Hawks system and Trae in the warriors system, things look a lot different
Exactly what is happening in okc
Finally working :)
Do one on the Sacramento kings
They look like Harden & Kyrie when they shared the floor. Just 1 iso after another.
Only difference was they were way better lol
Thanks for posting this right before they play my Hornets, now they’re going to drop 130 on us
Hopefully 🙏
Yeah, thank god you guys don’t have Cody Zeller anymore. He was ass but whenever y’all played us he would turn into fucking Embiid
I can only dream
Atlanta has become the new Portland Blazer with Dame and CJ...
When atlanta went for trae they wanted to clone the warriors.. def need trae off ball for that
the trampoline offensive revolution is coming
Ah the Nate McMillan coach team.
This is this generation's Iverson-Carmelo moment
Surprised anyone is saying anything good about Dallas's offense. And this is coming from a Dallas fan
Thing is they aint even much better than the hawks just another over hype of Luka if you ask me..for the majority of the season the hawks were the better team
Thinking basketball, please make a content regarding Dame if it is justifiable that he is indeed the 2nd greatest shooter behind Steph. 😁
Hawks offense kinda reminds me of the bulls
I can't remember any 2 guard combination being a real contender. The likes of Dame/CJ, Wall/Beal and Harden/Westbrook. ONLY Klay and Steph, because they are built differently plus the coaching.
They ain’t built differently it’s the coaching plus Kevin Durant and draymond green doing playmaking
Elite trampoline metaphor use
I feel like the Wolves and Hawks should have swapped which star they traded for this offseason.
Too late 18-11
If we're still trading Kevin Huerter away, I definitely am cool on giving up even larger assets just for Gobert. He raises the defensive ceiling, but our defense hasn't even been a major issue this season
Do you die your hair Ben? Got some good locks
6:14 - this was hard to watch
Atlanta has a zone *offense* sometimes
Very interesting thing to look at regarding Trae Young is his efficiency. His True Shooting % (and catch all offensive stat that incorporates 2’s, 3’s and free throws) is on average mid/high 50’s, which is above league avg but not quite elite (top 10 players are typically at 60% + consistently). Now when you look at his Effective Field Goal % (an offensive stat similar to true shooting without the inclusion of free throws) you see that it is lower than league average for Trae, which seems to indicate that he heavily relies on free throws as a major part of his offence and the fact that his free throw attempt rate is always 10% + higher than league avg and that the FG Added stat (indicates extra pts via standard FG attempts he adds to his team compared to league avg) has been SIGNIFICANTLY in the negatives, with exception to a slight positive value last yr there’s a fair amount of supporting evidence.
Now all of these trends don’t match with Luka’s stats at all, besides the lacklustre defence, though Luka has gotten better whereas Trae has stayed the same and sometimes been worse than his averages. The players that these trends DO match is James Harden, though to a lesser degree as Harden’s effective field goal % remains at or slightly above whereas Traes is almost always below (and nearly all years James has had a positive FG added stat until the last yr in Houston).
Best conclusion I can draw here is that Trae is just a less efficient James Harden as he currently stands, which isn’t as good as it sounds because the only reason Harden, when he was in his prime, worked so well was BECAUSE of his efficiency.
The eFG% vs TS% is an important point, as in the playoffs, usually you don't get as many free throws, therefore eFG% becomes more important. In addition, FG% is important as well since in the playoffs, especially down the stretch of games, you just need baskets, regardless of whether it's a 2 or a 3.
You're completely correct that Trae is just a less efficient Harden. They're both elite pick and roll players, but Trae falls off quite a bit as an ISO player compared to Harden (.9 points per possession compared to Harden's 1.26). Neither are good off-ball, and neither are good defenders although Harden at least has some size/strength and has always been a pretty good post defender. So with Trae, if a team is able to guard the spread pick and roll properly, he basically becomes a liability.
how much is the salary of the hawks coaches combined?
Too much for what they put us thru
I still don't understand to this day why the Hawks moved for Dejounte Murray, he clearly doesn't fit in with Trae already there and his performance hasn't been good
I like to call the stand in the corner thing the PJ Tucker role. That's literally pretty much all he did in Houston lol, just stand there and get out of Harden's way
coaching matters
Hawks fan here. Still salty that we traded Luka. Always will be.
This was tatum/brown before in an offensive sense imo. 🤷
Everyone wants to be steph till u realize that steph adds so much to the game more than just his shooting. Dude is literally an offball black hole that constantly pulls so much gravity every possession
Him 'warping' the defense happens in real time. He tests teams ability to be in the right position or switch otherwise its BBQ chicken just by the Warriors moving the ball around. Its gotten easier for him in time because he's also gotten bigger from his small, wiry body before he hit his prime. Meanwhile if Trae is to play that kind of off-ball game, you definitely know he's not gonna like getting bumped with his small frame. He'll be laboring out there and by the time he does get a hand off to go downhill, he won't even take that opportunity.
Both teams have the same record and are the 9th seed
do you think that young Detroit backcourt can run into this problem in the future?
If they have a coach that don’t enforce ball movement nd player movement off ball it definitely will .
From what i’ve seen of Cade and Ivey i think they’re more inclined to play off the ball. They both did in college, but have had to be more on ball so far in the league. Considering neither will be a Trae level offensive engine they definitely need to adopt off ball tendencies.
Remember when everyone was on his hype train 2 years ago saying he was better than curry😂
Not at all lmao. Only been hated on with ppl saying "he think he Curry" since he been drafted lmao. Such a dumb narrative
Nonsense nobody was hailing that
@@boondockbwoy14 go look it up
Not sure if it's a good take to use Dallas as an exemplar of how to fix the Hawks. They're both terrible teams. Dallas being heliocentric is just as bad as the Hawks, the only difference being that Luka is a better overall player than Trae.
Hell, they even have similar records as of my posting this. Both have 17-16 records today.
You could argue that Dallas is worse, because they have all time great level talent surrounded by plumbers and firemen on a contract expiring in like 2027 and have made 0 moves to capitalize on it. Even worse--they're bleeding assets, so Luka may end up stuck in a bad situation for a while. At that usage rate, he could end up with an injury that derails his career, making him a big what if.
If they literally added even a single Allstar and got the team to click, they'd become a contender. The Hawks are not even remotely near this situation.
Having Spencer Dinwiddie as your second best player is not enough to make a winning team.
All that being said, your takes on the Hawks issues are great. It's strange for Trae to play in such a way where he's not maximized off the ball on a team where you have another guy on the floor who can also run the offense. E.g. It's kind of a waste for him to be resetting the play after the initial swing from Dejounte. That may be a sign of the team not geling, because they're not on the same page.
If you add an all star to Dallas that causes chemistry issues and that Star won’t be utilized due to Luka having the ball in his hands too much. The Mavs have talent they just don’t allow that talent to develop or shine for the sake of keeping Luka happy
@@Black_Diamond31 If Luka can't share the floor with an All star, he'll never win a championship, full stop.
Also, those guys on Dallas are awful. Have you seen how bad the offense dips when Luka comes off the floor
Also, most of those guys are already in their prime (27+), some are actually late prime. What do you mean "development"? If you're 27+ in the league and are talking about needing "development", you're just a dillusional journeyman. Who on that team do you think they need to "develop"? Wood? He's 27... not much is going to change in his bag.
HAHA :D pick and roll WITH SPACING! so 2017
Trae young comparison to steph is crazy cuz step moved way slower
Your turn?
My turn.
Sounds like Yugioh these days.
He's 6 foot and very slender. I don't think trying to turn him into a slasher or cutter is a very good strategy. He basically only knows how to play with the ball in hands and using the pick and roll.
The Hawks need to try and hire Ime Udoka. He’d be a good coach for them.
Atlanta Hawks play with 2 point guards. Minnesota Timberwolves play with 2 centers