Drinker's Chasers - The Death Of The Hollywood "Tough Guy"
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- čas přidán 12. 04. 2024
- Its interesting to compare the actors of today to those of previous generations. Why do they look so... different? Was it a different culture, different lifestyles or different experiences that shaped them?
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Many of these old school Hollywood male film stars lived a hard live, before becoming famous.
Charles Bronson grew up dirt poor and worked in a coal mine, to support his family and then went to the US Air Force during WWII and served as a bomber plane machine gunner.
Lee Marvin was a decorated Marine in the Pacific War, who got wounded in combat and it took him almost a year to fully recover and learn how to walk again.
Tony Curtis also grew up dirt poor and was even put in an orphanage for some time with his brother, because his family couldn't feed them. He later joined the US Navy and served on a submarine in the Pacific War.
Sir Michael Caine served in the Korean War, as an Infantry soldier.
These are just some examples from the top of my head, many more of these old school Hollywood ''leading men'' had similar life stories.
I read the other the day the Donald Pleasence was a radio operator on a Lancaster bomber. He spent time in a German POW camp after being shot down. This is before his role in the 'Great Escape'.
Jack Palance worked in a coal mine, boxed, burned in a plane crash.
Mel Brooks’s job during WW2 was combat engineer; he was defusing land mines during the Battle of the Bulge and constructing bridges over the Rhine for the Allies to cross.
Exactly, they had done it, so they could portray it, and more they seemed stronger and more capable, more plausible in the roles they played without even saying a word or doing anything. Can you really say that about Chris Pratt or Leo DiCaprio? Tom Cruise or Michael Fassbender?
Sir Christopher Lee is undefeated
Pedro Pascal as a tough, rugged survivalist is about as convincing as Tom Cruise playing 6'5 walking tank Jack Reacher.
Exactly. Pedro screams beta cuck
For “The Last of Us” they should have cast Dylan McDermott, he actually looks like Joel, and has considerably more impressive acting chops than Pedro.
Tom Cruise is more believable as a character who was former military, especially army. The focus of training for army is endurance, not brute strength.
😂😂😂😂😂 FACTS
@@MaryRohwer Cruise did a great job in that movie. I think what’s he is referring to is that Reacher is 6’5” in the book. Cruise is like 5’8”.
I recently watched the Dirty Harry movies for the first time, they are simple but they are entertaining, dont waste your time, tell a decent story and are COOL. It really sucks that movies like that dont get made anymore.
well, you can blame the new generation of movie goers and their crys of "toxic-masculinity."
One of the things that made Dirty Harry awesome in the first movie was that John Milius helped craft a lot of his lines. That's one of the biggest problems with Hollywood now...horrifically bad writing.
The pendulum will swing back.....it always does
@@riggs58"movie goers"
It was shot really lean but there's this really nasty '70's atmosphere in the first Dirty Harry that you just don't see anymore and when it came out all hell broke loose. Don't dismiss it as simple, it's a milestone.
When I hear "Duke Nukem is an outdated character" from most gamers, my soul cries.
Hollywood will NEVER make that movie now.
Anyone who says that can 'blow it out your ass'
And it's ludicrous because all of the characters Duke Nukem parodies are still considered iconic.
You don't get to love Big Trouble in Little China, First Blood, Stone Cold, Die Hard, Kung Fury, Army of Darkness, etc. and then pretend Duke Nukem is beneath you.
It's like being a self-professed Bond fan who sneers at Austin Powers.
(If you like the inspiration? You should *at least* appreciate the joke it inspires.)
hail to the king, baby...
Duke comes off as lame because the franchise has always been so middling
The Hollywood “tough guy” got replaced by the female “tough guy”😆
Lol, boy the financials reflect that big time at the box office....
Well when u got girl boss you cant have a tough roughed chisel chin character.
It looks odd. So here we are. We sit and watch total mishmash of a world that doesnt exist and to prob 70% of men just looks forced and cringe.
The Last of Us Season 2 will give us the final form of the new female "tough guy"
Unfortunately, they're trying to push regular females as those female tough guys.
@@eide99 that's old news, I remember Nathan Drake getting beat down by a black woman half his weight with a giant afro.
Trash.
Then we got Abbyzilla, the new whaman.
Platoon needs to reflect on the phrase “It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war". There will always be a pace and a need for the men who are willing to fight. And have they already forgotten the wars in the last 30 years that have shaped many men?
Samwise Gamgee doesn't like this comment
You guys can onoy talk by make up phrases
Pedro Pascal in GoT just played a slightly grittier version of Inigo Montoya from Princess Bride; “Hello. My name is Oberyn Martell. You killed my sister. Prepare to die.”
The difference with that role is we had barely seen any roles from Pedro at that point and his character was genuinely awesome.
And The Mountain was like, “No u.”
Pedro Pascal is 50 and still can't grow a full beard. Tells a lot about his level of testosterone and masculinity.
@@EricZAchille Wat? Some of the biggest pussies I’ve met in life had full on Gandalf beards. I don’t think that’s how you should be gauging masculinity…
@@EricZAchillelol what. Why are you so bitter
The Duke, Eastwood, and Henry Fonda are treasures of a bygone era.
We could use a revival of that era.
Henry Fonda was a red.
Jack Palance was another one of the greats. Lousy horseman, but nobody's perfect....
My favorite all time actor is Clark Gable, once called the King of Hollywood
All 3 are extremely overrated
From Clint Eastwood and Arnold Schwarzenegger to Tom Holland and Timothtee Chalamet
Peter Parker/Spider-Man was always a skinny nerd. Paul from Dune is a teenager.
Appealing to men vs appealing to women
@@Mickey-1994 Fair but they also tried Holland as Nathan Drake
I must be a very weird woman, I don't find Holland or Chalamet appealing at all. I'm between the age groups of the 2 different categories- perhaps I'm too old to appreciate men like that. 🤷🏻♀️ But even as a young girl, l didn't find guys like that appealing. I like masculine men. I don't mean I only admire men that are built-far from it. It's about the energy. It cannot be faked and all masculinity is not toxic- I'm tired of men getting that effing label.
They play completely different characters, which were always different. Spiderman was always played by someone like Tom Holland, and never like someone like Clint Eastwood or Arnold. Chalamet playet characters that fit his role too.
We didn't go from one to another, we always had "Hollands and Chalamets", and we always had "Eastwoods and Schwarzeneggers". Your comment makes no sense.
Pascal wasn't intimidating at all in game of thrones until he showed his skill with weapons. The point is old school men in action roles looked intimidating/imposing before they did anything. He doesn't.
And that’s a bad thing exactly why?
It was kind of the point, though
@@mystuff9999 Because it means they look more feminine. It means something is up in our society because the biology of men is regressing.
@@mystuff9999He's not saying its a bad thing, just that it doesn't represent old school tough guy embodiment. Oberyn was a bisexual pretty boy Prince who only proves himself a tough guy through his actions.
Oberyn was perfect. Nonchalant and "meh" until he stands against the mountain, where he shreds his enemy with confidence, skill and rage.... Until his huberus gets in the way.
As someone who grew up in the 60's & 70's I can tell you the difference:
1) Boys were ALWAYS outside. I was given 'chores' and expected to have them done - weeding the garden, feeding the horses, chickens, mowing the lawn etc. and never used sun screen, lotion etc still don't.
2) I started working when I was 10 at my elementary school and started mowing lawns for pay when I was 13. By 16 I'd saved enough to buy my first car but had to make enough to pay for the insurance.
3) When I wasn't doing chores or working I hung out with my friends playing baseball or catch, basketball, 2 or 3 on 3 football or just throwing the ball around, hiking, bike riding etc.
Was life harder? Not really, the difference is that we were expected to contribute to the household and were given responsibilities to make sure that happened. That doesn't seem to be the case as much now a days.
The problem with Pedro Pascal is twofold: first, saturation. He's just fucking EVERYWHERE. And second, he's not trying as hard anymore. He chewed the scenery in Game of Thrones because he realized that was his opportunity. After that, every role he's done, he's put a little bit less effort than the last.
Totally agree. Pascal is soft and doughy - not exactly an actor who’s believably tough like Josh Brolin who would have been great as Joel.
I got sick of Pedro from that damn meme with him eating that sandwich or cracker, also that scene from the movie with Nicholas Cage.
Same reason I can’t take Oscar Isaac seriously. Everyone claims he’s this phenomenal actor. But I thought he was horrendous in the Star Wars sequels, clearly phoning it in the more the movies went on. From then on he got put in so many things like freaking Moon Knight where he seemed bored at times
@@lawrencetalbot8346 Oscar was a joke in Star Wars. He was a joke. The only other movie I saw him in was ‘Sucker Punch’, and believe it or not I enjoyed it.
@@chet1921 funny enough that Nic Cage movie was his best and most memorable performance for me.
Charlton Heston, Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster, Richard Widmark, Yul Brynner, Steve McQueen, James Coburn, Charles Bronson, Sidney Poitier, Lee Marvin...
oldschool Hollywood is still the best!
Chuck H is one of GOATs
Gregory peck was great as well
A very large chunk of the old school actors were veterans of WWII or Korea, sometimes both. James Arness had his signature limp in "Gunsmoke" because he almost lost a leg in the Italian campaign in WWII). Jimmy Stewart flew a bunch of B-24 Liberator bombing missions in that same conflict and you can sense that experience in both men, even if you knew nothing about their backgrounds. The only modern actor with a military background I can think of is Adam Driver. There may be more, but he's the only one....
@@pavelowjohn9167 Adam driver is ugly
Robert Vaughn,Robert Mitchum,Cliff Robertson,the list goes on but all with one thing in common - they're MEN.
Alan Ritchson as Reacher is one modern casting tha works. And as a character he's big, strong, violent when needed and lives a simple, minimalist life.
No gaudiness or pretentiousness, a sense of stocism doing the right thing. It just happens to bring out brutal violence :)
in real life he is just another hollywood nitwit
And he had to open his big mouth on politics....I'm done with that show, liked it too.....
He’s probably suffering from the bad of the ‘humiliation ritual’ that Hollywood used on people who don’t agreed their ideologies.
@RonCondon Personalty I couldn't care less, regardless of who they side with. Not worth the waste of emotion.
I read / listen / watch artists and performers from across the polticial spectrum. As long as their politics at the door when creating their output, they can endorse or vote for whoever they want.
@@RonCondon He must be having the bad case of the 'humiliation ritual' that Hollywood did to people who disagrees their ideology.
Also, I think CZcams just deleted my comment just to censor me and shit.
“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
I’m certainly seeing this.
We are in the time of Weak Men
@@shadowwarrior7218 No we are in hard times. The time of weak men preceded this time.
@@classreductionist
Correct. This is the part where people get forced to man up, and you start to notice guys with balls saying the word "NO" with their whole chest for a change.
It seems human beings are doomed to repeat this over and over again.
Clint Eastwood was 3 years younger making Dirty Harry than Ryan gosling when he made barbie.nuff said 😂
😮😮😮
They had pretty boy actors in the 70s like Robert Redford.
@@Mickey-1994 yeah but Newman was still cooler and prettier than Redford
People ignore the effect rampant tobacco use had on how people looked in the past. When people started smoking in their early teens it added to the effects of aging, along with the effect what we consider old fashioned hair and clothing styles in old photos that makes us precieve people as older than they really were.
While Ryan Gosling looks you he still has screen presence. It does not work when he plays hard men.
An Englishman, an Irishman, and a Scot walk into a bar...
Just kidding, they couldn't walk; they had to be carried. I love seeing the Despot on the show!
They walk in. They have to be carried out.
And the Welshman stayed home. With his sheep 😈
An Englishman, an Irishman, and a Scot walk into a bar...
The Englishman, Irishman, and Scot wake up with raging headaches in the gutter next to the Russian, the Finn, and a drunken hog.
Baggage claim is awesome, drinker get Jonny Law back on, he was probably a bit tentative, probably nervous, and cast him with Despot, Disparu, and Baggage. Enough of Gary for crying out loud. He is becoming insufferable after his 1m subs. Not that he doesn't deserve it. He is simply over exposed....also Jonny, Despot etc. just have better takes, they are still climbing the ladder. Anyway my 2 cents...Gary is now a proud Texan, and good for him. Others deserve more exposure....and you can do that. Think about this way, how powerful can we become if the guests I just suggest, increase their subs.....also some of the best content I have heard from you was with doomcock! What happened to that correspondence? You two are great together, hope it's not politics....So your humble bar tender will wait and see, and if you ever come to Austin, I'll make you a drink that will put your dick in the dirt!
Look what happened to Platoon, his rise is attributed with your show. Anyway my faves are
Disparu
Jonny Law
Despot
George the GS
Gundam...dude is crazy
Baggage
Echo
Yellow Flash
Doomcock
Valient
WDW pro
Platoon
Film Rant
Robot
Cristy
Benny
Etc.
Least favorite
Gary, for reasons I described
Az , man he is cool but good grief.
Endimion, interrupts
Chato, dude is just weird. Has good takes though....
Any way respect to you and ALL of the content creators ....
I've enjoyed the recent disagreements between The Drinker and Mauler. They both make good points, and it demonstrates this isn't an echo chamber, and that views are challenged... Respectfully and intelligently.
I think this was less of a disagreement and more of a misunderstanding on MauLer's part of what Drinker meant by flamboyant. Oberyn absolutely was flamboyant. That was his character. That doesn't mean he was a sissy or anything like that which seems to be how MauLer interpreted it. He was flashy and a showman. From Merriam-Webster: "marked by or given to strikingly elaborate or colorful display or behavior". This absolutely describes Oberyn Martell from the show.
Can’t wait till they invite Chris Stuckman on. 🥊
Well, this is how fans used to discuss thing back until some years ago. And, of course, sometimes discussions got heated, because fans are passioned about what they like.
The problem is the recent new "fans" that can't stand someone disagreeing with them, that resort to name calling and attempts of ostracization of their opponents in debate.
I think part of the problem is the more well-known the actor is does not equate to a good performance. People get cast because they are popular not necessarily if they are right for the role.
Only drinker always backs down to the smug prick
They were also all chain smokers. Humphrey Bogart was in his 30s/40s during the height of his fame, he looked about 70.
This is 100% the biggest factor.
Yeah but Bogey was known to be a heavy smoker and drinker,
and until he settled down with Bacall was a notorious hellraiser;he was booted out of the Navy for numerous infractions as well as brawling.
Bogey lived a rough life though,his first wife;Mayo Methot,was also a notorious drinker and brawler,and she died before he did I think.
ya-- I think smoking is the major cause, people in the 50s-70s didn't really live much physically harder lives than we do today
Uv exposure and smoking - it was never a secret.
Its just that people like selling you the idea of a moisturiser undoing damage.
This is the big one I think. Way more people smoked and even if you didn't you probably lived with someone who did and were still constantly exposed to it in restaurants, bars, movie theaters etc.
6:57 He was flamboyant. Dancing and prancing around showing off. He wanted an admittance of guilt from a towering psychopath and toyed around with a dangerous opponent he could've bested only because he was the more agile and fast fighter. (Wich are not per se masculine traits). And in the end lost due to arrogance and underestimating his opponent who ends up maiming and killed him because he prioritized demanding an apology..wich he got while getting his eyes poked in and skull crushed.... plus he poisoned his opponent...poison being the weapon of choice for....
I compared him to have strong but feline characteristics. We was a sleek mountain lion; where the brother were aptly named the Mountain and Hound. So while a dangerous character, he wasn't Stallone or Arnold in their prime (without going back to the other legends of film)
@@tla_studios and felines are usually associated with....fe-male, fe-lines... saying about a guy "he's a huge pussycat" isn't a compliment... although it's exactly what I associate with Pedro Pascal....a huge pussy...
@@tla_studios fe-male, fe-lines same thing. He's a real pussycat alright...not quite the compliment...though fitting for Pedro Pascal.
...a woman? 🤨
@@tla_studios I thought he was named a viper...you know a snake of the venomous kind... using poison and slithering around...
My dad was a B24 pilot, flew his first combat mission at 20 years old. What do you expect?
The phrase "puts hair on your chest" is surprisingly literal.
I aged more in 2 years of working customer service in bad neighborhoods than I did over the course of my entire formal education. Liaising with detectives and seeing fresh cadavers will do that to ya.
@@ephraimwinslowseeing chalk outlines on the walk home from work on a regular basis throws you. But hey, Baltimore.
I am from a military family and the only man who was behaving like a "tough guy" was my mothernal great-grandfather, who got his leg blown off in a training accident on HMS Malaya, before WWII. Because of that, he spent the whole war as a clerk in India, frustrated he cannot serve. And he was the stereotypical, bitter, grumbly war veteran. Paternal great-grandfather, who fought with Polish Legion in WWII and with British Army in Korea and Malaya Emergency, was the mildest, most polite and all-round amazing guy. For somebody who lost his mother and 2 older sisters in Holocaust and whose first wife (my great-grandmother) was tortured to death by Czech communists in 1950, and who killed people since he was 22, that is still my manly ideal. Both grandfathers served in Falklands (but not in direct combat) and my father served in Desert Storm with 1st Armoured Division. And you can still argue it's my mom, who wears trousers at home.
I knew and know a lot of hard military men, who were and are teddy bears at home and you would never suspect they lived lives they lived. Maybe because of UK culture which doesn't really glorify military conduct? But I also saw older soldiers pretty much keeping a tight lid on their work and not talking about it or brag about it. Even younger ones don't really do that, hell, my father was for a long time unwiling to talk about his experience in Gulf. And it's not like PTSD, it was something he left "over there" and not brought up home. He considers it as a service to his country, which is matter of course, not something to brag about.
Alexander the Great, leading from the front and suffering repeated injuries conquered much his known world before he was 30.
Today we have men in their physical prime who are obese and popping pills for mental health just to get through another day in a society where even our poorest have access to foods and medicines medieval kings would have dreamed of.
But if anyone mentions dysgenics they are dismissed. Everything's just fine.
And the women - let's compare our great grandmothers who didn't have microwaves, washing machines, modern hair products, wore whalebone corsets and had litters of children and who were 'trapped' at home caring for the family while father got black lung in the coal mines. Meanwhile their great grand daughters tell us they are oppressed if they have to wear a dress for a paid job in an aiconditioned environment, or when their Uber eats delivery is late.
We're pathetic and ugly now - and that is why we are losing our civillisation.
more out of you, apparently! /s Respect to Pa
My response for Mauler on Pedro Pascal being masculine as Oberyn Martell, is that Oberyn acts effeminate and flamboyant the whole time he is in King's Landing. He dresses casually and revealing, and he boasts about the hedonistic wonders of foreign lands to subtly jab at his counterparts. But, he is also a sword master and an aggressive killer. These traits make him intimidating, and he hides that part of himself until he needs to be that. Those is a masculine trait mixed with his flamboyancy and effiminate qualities. So in a way, he is more like the men in King's Landing than even he would like to admit. Since most of the men are killers as well. All in all, he is a Game of Thrones version of Cunningham from Rob Roy who came off as effeminate in contrast to Liam Neeson's rugged Rob. However, he had the sword skills and intelligence which made in extremely intimidating like Oberyn. I believe Mauler is too taken up with Oberyn's killing prowess and forgets all of his other traits that, unless it is all an act, show an effeminate and flamboyant man who is also a hot blooded fighter and killer.
I agree, Mauler is wrong there and completely misinterprets the character. It makes me question his knowledge about other things now.
@@chopperj007 Ditto with Platoon but I think I know why he likes Pedro so much
I agree, id say Oberyn was very dangerous, ruthless and skilled, but not masculine. He reminded me alot of Zhange He in the old Dynasty Warriors games ALOT :D
Saying Oberyn Martell isn’t “flamboyant,” just because he’s a fighter is like saying Ramirez from Highlander isn’t flamboyant because he’s good with a sword…
He’s clearly flamboyant and everyone in the show/movie acknowledges it
I believe there is decent evidence that "Skincare" is actually making some of us age worse.
Many members of GenZ are aging poorly, very poorly. Stress isn't always related to a hard life.... it can be related to an easy life and a massive insecurity knowing you can't do anything in Life.
A lot of very wealthy people take their lives due to stresses outside of money. Having money is a big win and destressor, but it isn't the only avenue for stress, the stress of a cheating spouse has nothing to do with money
I think the rise in depression and anxiety disorders is partially the cause of that. Unhealthy food consumption is another problem.
Hwat? The oldest zoomers arent even thirty yet...
It's very refreshing to hear people politely disagree.
Kids had to grow up quickly back then. Many left school at 16 and went straight to work, they got married and took on responsibility much younger. We may have better skin care and diets but look at the mental health problems we have now. Back then kids looked older but they were far healthier of mind.
Nailed it.
It doesn't help that parents won't let kids go out and play unsupervised, or keep them in extracurricular sports activities through high school instead of starting to work part time and learn some basic skills. A "child" of 26 can still be on their parents' health care plan.
@@inkermoyYou can't. In the 90s I'd be home alone for an hour or so until my parents arrived home from work. If we did that today, we'd be charged with neglect.
The previous generation of leading men in the 40's-90's Hollywood served in the military, saw conflict(s) or had experienced life's harsh realities, which left emotional and physical scars. Perhaps acting was an outlet for them to release all the pent up feelings and horrors they saw. Hollywood legends like Jimmy Stewart, Tyrone Power, Lee Marvin, Eddie Albert, James Garner, R L Ermey, Henry Fonda and Audie Murphy had put their "emotions" behind their movie character roles giving cinema a deeper look into character development and expressing emotions that other actors may not capture who had not served in the military, traveled the world, worked with their hands, or experienced life's adventures and turmoils. We can only hope Hollywood will find young men who typify the past generation of actors who challenged themselves and conquer their fears and mode their characters. As Always great topic and enjoy listening to the content. Cheers.
So real men have PTSD and homicidal tendencies... gotcha.
Mauler tried to argue Pedro wasn't horribly miscast as Joel and then justifies it by arguing how movie and game Joel are entirely different characters. I think he should've thought about that a bit more and realized that he just argued that Pedro was such a miscast that it made Joel an unrecognizable character between the two mediums.
Show and game Joel are different versions of the same character. Show Joel is much more of an exposed nerve who is openly affected by his trauma, especially when compared to his colder counterpart. I believe Mauler was arguing that comparing how Pascal represented Joel's character to how Joel is presented in the game isn't a good idea fundamentally because the show was never trying to copy game Joel in the first place. It used him as a template but the show had their own interpretation of the character from the start. It wasn't Pascal's casting that led to Joel being less hardened necessarily, the character was simply less hardened to begin with.
I could be wrong, but it sounded more like Mauler was trying to say that Pedro wasn't the worst miscast as there could have been far worse choices for the character. Personally, Pedro was just simply an incorrect choice, similar to how I view Cuba Gooding Jr being the incorrect choice for OJ Simpson in the FX drama series.
@@tjjordan4207 that's a terrible argument though, it's an attempt to defend the casting by going to the absurd. Under such term, a bad casting is impossible because it can always be worse.
And that’s why so many ppl I talk to disliked the show version of Joel cuz they made him. Total bitch old and decrepit that couldn’t even fight off a teenager with a knife in the beginning they made it out like omg Joel is scary Robert’s terrified of him only to show us he can’t handle himself at all and he does nothing but cry to his brother n the dude can’t even hear ur telling me everyone in the shows firing guns and are fine but Joel’s magically deaf cmon it was just them making him more of a bitch so game fans didn’t get their alpha male savage from the game cuz we’re not allowed to have that now a days
I knew the moment Drinker mentioned The Last of Us show, MauLer would jump to defend it.
Pascal in GoT was epic - so good that I still can't believe it's the same actor. He WAS tough and intimidating, but in the same way Loki is compared to Thor. He was quick, agile, smart but also well-groomed, fancifully dressed - he was almost feline compared to the Mountain's wolfhound. So there's a point to be made that he could never pull off Ned Stark, Mountain, The Hound, etc.....those are his opposites.
I'm a huge John Wayne fan, and when he's on screen, I noticed the other actors, both friends and foe, defer to him through body language. That's in all the Duke's roles from the time he was a young star through his "living legend" phase. Even a tough guy like Kirk Douglas shrank a little in the Duke's presence. Same for Lee Marvin, Charles Bronson, et al.
That's tough guy charisma. And not one single actor today has it.
I don't remember if The Duke and Clint Eastwood ever did a film together but could you imagine the gravitas of that film?! Good lord the two ultimate Alpha males going toe to toe on screen could've been legendary.
We have been buying old dvds a lot and watched Princess and the frog on friday. My twelve year old daughter was captivated, we all laughed and we were all moved. A great film. The father in that movie was a great rolemodel who sacrificed for his family, no way that movie would have been made today.
So people, get your hold on physical media
To me personally, I see Viggo Mortenson as the perfect Joel after I saw him in The Road. I think he has an easier time adapting to and taking hold of a role than Pedro Pascal does. And he is more a "Hollywood Tough Guy" than pretty much anyone else out there. All you have to do is watch A History of Violence, Eastern Promises, The Road, Lord of the Rings and most of his other films.
Yes but unfortunately he's also white so 🤷♂️ what can Hollywood do? White men can only be villains or cowards.
Viggo also played The Devil / Lucifer in "The Prophecy". It was a small role, but he played it well. Very guttural and intense.
Welcome back Drinker. Really excellent guests! Keep up the good work sir
When I was a kid, my Hero was Lee Majors as Steve Austin (The Six Million Dollar Man)
Today a kids Hero is Dylan Mulvaney as a Woman
Majors was a college baseball player when he was discovered by Rock Hudson. Hudson had Majors and his wife go to LA and got him well connected and on his way. Hudson discovered a lot of athletes and sent them to Hollywood. In the 80s when Hudson got AIDS Majors claimed he never knew him.
I dont know to whom Dylan is a hero to....
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard
Dylan is no one’s hero. Wtf you saying.
We have the technology
Drinker is 100% right about Pedro Pascal/Joel
Baggage Claim is a treasure....and I feel I'm back at university listening to Platoon. All-star cast as always, Drinker!
Hugh Jackman as Joel
Chloe Grace Moretz as Ellie in the last of us would’ve been peanut butter and jelly.
I always think that Dylan McDermott would make an incredible Joel. But, the internet can all almost unanimously agree, Pascal is not rugged or have enough bravado to play Joel.
Chloe Grace moretz is great except I believe she’s aged out of the role.
Tom Hardy should have been Joel.
@@edistoorbusthe’s too small and too rough
Back in the 70s and 80s we had television shows that were an inspiration for the younger generation. It showed how life could be if we just progressed. Boy we were so wrong you look around today and you wonder where all that hope went.
People only grow when forced. This idea that if you put no pressure on children that they'll just one day grow up by choice is straight-up insanity.
It's like expecting a goldfish to regulate their own diet.
Millennials got introduced to the internet, were not protected by the stuff they were exposed to, it ruined them. 51% of millennials are woke. I dont know if the numbers have changed since that study was released a few years back. But millennials being exposed to far out there ideas online and in their schooling, plus peer pressure and conformity, and that is what happened, in a nutshell.
...what is mauler talking about? Drinker perfectly described his role in Game of Thrones. He was flamboyant, he was a hedonist. Thst doesn't mean he cant be intimidating.
He literally was flamboyant, he was literally doing a fucking Vega trying to savor his kill.
Mauler doesn't have the best opinions most of the time. He is always over complaining. It's just the opposite spectrum of the woke mob. A little less toxic, yes. But I don't like extremes. A shame Drinker went with him.
We shouldn't be surprised, given his opinions on GOW Ragnarok.
Drinker needs to grow a backbone and just tell him no ..I don't agree with your take it's wrong..how many times have I heard drinker make a great point and backtrack straight away when that guy throws a tantrum,his takes with this last of us TV show and god of war and so much else is stupid,but that's okay.. what isn't ok is drinker constantly backing down to him@@jischneider
Agree guys. Maybe he will read these comments and start considering it.
Mauler has been a real bitch since GOW Ragnarok came out
THIS is why Drinker and Mauler go so well together. Your best mates will call you out when you're wrong.
My wife asked me about a year ago who would l look up to as a positive influence in masculinity. I paused and couldn’t think of anyone. She then said, Keanu Reeves? I paused and thought, that’s it.
In today’s society, I believe Keanu Reeves is the best example of a prominent celebrity who embodies the positives of masculinity. Stoic, humble, empathetic, and self secure.
Honestly yeah. That's it. Keanu Reeves.
Everyone who meets Keanu in real life says he's the nicest genuine guy, I'm glad he got this second wind in his career with John Wick
Yeah except he’s not even remotely assertive in real life. His characters are though
Tom Hardy, Jason Statham, Daniel Craig, Chris Hemsworth, Henry Cavill, Gerard Butler, Karl Urban, Alan Ritchson, Arnie, Stallone some hollywood chaps with masculine chops.
Alan Ritchson is no "Tough Guy". He is a Woke Leftist with severe TDS. He just plays pretend.
And the guy from Amazon's Reacher.
Exactly. Also Glen Powell
Alan Ritchson is no "Tough Guy". He is a Woke Leftist with severe TDS.
Jason Momoa. So masculine he has to be dialed down to 1 in his movies.
Sean Bean still gets cast, he's probably one the last rugged lead male actors in circulation!
Tough guys > girl bosses.
tough guys are rooted in a real phenomenon, girl bosses are pure wishful thinking
Ironically, badass chick is still popular, but we don't get any decent ones anymore. I want another Bride. I want more Selenes. Gimme a Leeloo. I'll even take a Hitgirl (From the first film only, she was cool.)
Rebecca Romijn barely spoke in the X-men movies, and her Mistique has been living rent-free in my head since prepubescence. Has there been any female character on the big screen in the age of DEI that's just fking cool?
Badass chick was the tough guy equivalent, and they got deleted for the girlboss, aka, a Mary Sue on crack.
This has been by far my favorite group on open bar! Love the disagreements and deeper discussions y'all are having!! More of this please!!
Cosmetics has nothing to do with it, we were raised with the expectation to be adults by our late teens back then, and it's reflected in pictures of our younger selves. We looked a lot more like our parents back then, because we aspired to be like our parents. Now everyone has to be an IG waifu, an androgynous person of unknown lineage with increasingly garish tattoos that tries to mask anything that makes them remotely like their parentage, all in an effort to be a "unique" inidividual. Problem is, they all end up looking the same.
Bruh
I don’t disagree with Baggage Claim, but I think the aging thing can also be attributed to the fact that smoking is nowhere near as prevalent, nor is there near as much lead in things e.g. paint, gasoline, etc.
This.
Clint Eastwood never smoked and has lived to his nineties. Michael Caine smoked in his youth and lived into his nineties as did Connery. Smoking has no relevance on this.
Henry Cavill’s career is all the proof you need.
I know thar for you simps is too much to fanthom but is not other fault if it made sh1t career choices
Keep bringing Baggage Claim back,I love her input!
I recently found a bunch of old albums doing a remodel job in my house. One was my dad in the late 40's, he was born in '29 so too young for ww2 but a HS grad and college student. What struck me was that they dressed like men and women. Some of the pics were of a trip in a '38 Ford from Chicago to Little Rock on vacation. They were late teens and the men wore button down shirts, slacks, ties and nice shoes and the women wore skirts, nice blouses with scarfs on their hair and around their collars. They were adults my dad was in the army and engineering school, and expected to be seen that way. They didn't look old they looked mature.
Can’t have a discussion about The Last of Us show without Mauler running unearned defense for it.
Mauler saying Prince Oberyn wasn’t flamboyant when he was doing triple backflips for the crowd while fighting the mountain 💀
Ok I can buy a little bit of the "life was harder and it aged people faster back then" argument, but really only because so many people smoked back then and men generally never moisturized. But the real reason that young people in the past look older in photos is because they're wearing cloths and hair styles that we associate with old people because they didn't change their style when they grew old.
Pedro Pascal is who a extreme lib would envision as tough
Many of the older actors and actresses' Betty White, Bea Arthur, Audrey Hepburn, James Stewart, Lee Marvin, Paul Newman, Sir Alec Guinness, and many, many others served during WW2. They understood the value of life and sacrifice, it was this service that made them great. Now its all about self, screw your fellow man, kick them when their down, rewrite history to suit your narrative, your truth matters more than the truth and human life has little to no value. Ask yourself this question: are you leaving the world a better place than you found it or just leaving the mess for those that follow? We are more worried about peoples delusions than actual issues, we have access to more knowledge than at anytime in history and yet are the most ill informed.
at least we have john wick
Pascal absolutely was flamboyant in GOT, and it worked for the character.
These 5 ‘tubers together is the best. Love this combo! 🎉
God I feel you, I can't stand Timothy Chalalala cast in EVERY SINGLE new movie looking like he can't lift his arm up
I sometimes enjoy it more when the lads disagree about things 😆
A GREAT EXAMPLE of miscasting as a tough male lead in a science fiction epic space opera is Dane DeHaan in VALERIAN: CITY OF A THOUSAND PLANETS (2017). At least, I think so.
Pretty forgotten movie
Medical Upgrades and the Pussification of every aspect of life....We didnt grow up with World War veterans raising us and taking us to school while smoking in the car with windows rolled up....
And why exactly was smoking around children a good thing?
I dunno man, me not being a coal miner like my grandad is kinda a fucking good thing, I kinda like being able to breathe properly
When TLOU tv show was announced I immediately thought that Josh Brolin would've been perfect as Joel.
07:12 I've got to say that Mauler's strong defense for Pedro Pascal came out of a left field for me. Very surprising to me, at least. Especially for his repeated push back of Drinker's rather fair assessment of his works and over-castings.
Has Mauler seen Wonder Woman 1984?
And what's with his standard of miscasting: Melissa McCarthy as Joel is a miscast, but Pedro is not. Well, if he sets the bar so low, then why not put Michael Cera as Joel, then?
Watch 'Mr Inbetween' for a great male character
Someone was talking about that. Is it any good?
Hollywood likes to type cast and push certain actors.
I remember getting tired of Brad Pit and Tom Cruise, because for a decade between the 1990's and 2000's they were in almost every big movie.
I think GoT's pascal as Oberyn was less of a masculine approach, as the mountain was meant to take more of that in the scene being more of the brute. The Mountain and the Viper. Oberyn was more brovado and bravura. Both of which cost him the fight. He knew he could win, he knew he had the skill, even won outright by the end, but he needed the extra cherry 'cause that's Oberyn. And it opened him up to failure.
A great character and Pascal played him well I think. He's a good actor, but he's not a Joel, and that's OK.
100% with Baggage Claim here. Great to see her and Despot on the stream.
Oberyn Martell was a skilled fighter, but not intimidating in a way that The Hound was. Nobody was going to look at him and say "Oh shit it's Oberyn"
I believe we're fast approaching a time where we will wish there were more of the manly virtues present in society.
Those men still exist. As hard times come on, the weak will either toughen up or fall and virtuous men will continue striving to provide for and protect their families.
T levels lower now
This is a more likely explanation. Artificial hormones added to meat is messing with our body chemistry.
Yup, people getting less sunlight, eating processed foods, not getting quality sleep, nor exercise or healthy diet, especially animal protein and healthy fats. I'd imagine too much easy access to vices such as pron, high sugar drinks, sloth lifestyle and processed carbs etc all contributes to a drop in T.
Drinker-High T
Mauler-Low T
@@ItsaKindOfMagic86 Unprecedented levels of artificial female hormones being introduced into the water...
It's also a shift in how people want to be perceived! In the past boys couldn't wait to become 'adults', and would attempt to dress/present as mature men as early as possible, while today the desire is to remain 'forever young'. So historically, guys would start dressing in suits & ties at 18 to appear 'grown up', while now most middle aged 'men' seem to prefer dressing like grade school kids... Maybe guys should return to wearing tailored slacks, collared shirts & sport coats, instead of distressed denim, graphic tees & hoodies. Present Company INCLUDED! lol
And how do WOMEN dress nowadays? 😂😂😂
Hugh Jackman. The fact that he also does musicals and is an absolute gentleman doesn’t take anything away from the fact that when he’s on screen, he is an absolute man’s man and is not to be fkd with. In fact I think it actually enhances it.
A lot of the “manly” men of older movies were considered the soft pretty boys of their time and had to prove themselves as tough, manly actors.
Errol Flynn was one example. Flynn had done rubber planting and gold mining in Papua-New Guinea when he was frigging eighteen, but still Hollywood stuntmen thought he was a softie pretty boy from under the down under. Of course these things were settled those days with fistcuffs and afterwards everybody was pals and VERY drunk.
The first part of this video was a great relief as I really thought it was me. I´m 64 and recently booked and online video call with my "senior accounts executive" about an investment portfolio. When she first appeared, I thought it was rather unprofessional for her to ask her teenage daughter to stand in temporarily (must be in the loo, I thought). Tuns out SHE was the "senior" accounts executive. I swear to God everybody looks about 16 to me.
I remember how shocked I was when I learned that the character Taggert in Beverly Hills Cop was only in his 30s, I'd always assumed he'd been in his 50s in the movie🤣🤣🤣
'The Dirty Dozen' couldn't be made today.
The death happened a long now we can only perform the autopsy by doing an exhumation of the buried body
The 'old look' might also be down to everyone smoking until a few decades ago too.
A lot of those old school actors were WWII Veterans as well. Or at minimum served in the military.
This is why I watch a lot of Asian and South Asian cinema. If you have seen the successful Indian movie "RRR" which had a high dose of machoism and brotherhood, you'd know that people still want to see these kinds of movies and many people in the West are turning to cinema outside of their countries to experience it.
Indians have a different view on manliness than Americans do, though
Calling Chris Pratt a manly man shows how far we’ve fallen lol
Yikes that was being Mauler suggested Tom Holland….
Well I think men and women both used to be much more mature and their faces carried that maturity. Yes, it's great we don't have the great depression and the Korean War or Vietnam but I do think the combination of the digital age and the obsessive pursuit of comfort as an end goal to life has left many men and women underdeveloped. Discomfort creates the opportunity for growth. Discomfort can of course break people as well so it is a double-edged sword. But I experience a depth in the actors and actresses of older content that seems to be mostly lacking in today's world.
My local cinema is doing a classic action season (predator, con air, demolition man, commando, The Rock, Speed, etc), and uts the best time I've had in the cinema in years.
The reason people look younger is because less young people smoke or drink like they did in the 70-80s.
It's hard for young people to understand but smoking was cool up until the late 90s.
People watch Mauler? How can people watch anyone who defends Pedro Pascal's masculinity? 🤣😂
I don't think its how difficult your life has been, my life has been wildly difficult, two wars, 5 desert deployments, two divorces, grew up on a farm in the 70s dirt poor and working heavy when I wasn't in school. I can bench 500lbs and I did not get it in a gym, I got it from being worked. I have hypertension from massive stress. If I shave my gray beard, or dye it, I can pass for mid 30s easy.. I am almost 55. Very few actors have had lives like mine, you have to go back to Lee Marvin and James Stewart to have actors who did things like I have.
I never smoked, rarely drink, worked night shift most of my life so that limited the UV damage to my skin. I tried to live a healthy life for the most part. Smoking and drinking ages you fast, too much sugar ages you fast. The people I graduated with who smoke loot a lot older than those of us who don't. My younger brothers look a lot older than I do, they both smoke, the middle one is an Iraq vet like I am.
Movies do not show masculinity, I don't think hollywood knows what the hell it is anymore.
of course movies can show masculiity, that's what this whole discussion is about. you can see it on screen, not just from facial features etc but an energy that gets projected through the screen.
I agree with you the heavy smoking and the heavy drinking back in the day really put some age on faces. People were out and about in the sun ALL the time back in the day and that damaged their looks about 30. I got a ton of face damage from days out doing stuff at the beach and roaming around outside before doctors started going on about sunscreen. We didn't mind lines on faces as much as people today.
That is an important point that lifestyles are a lot different than the norm of back when, smoking cigarettes was something most people did from very young for example
Steve McQueen's mother was a lady of the evening, a horrid woman she included him in on her "transactions" as a child. He grew up with issues with male authority figures. He later went into the Navy.
When he got out he became a hustler working the LA streets until he was discovered. A lot of the "tough guy" actors of the past and present prostituted themselves when they got to LA. Even Thomas Jane admitted he would sell himself for a sandwich just to have something to eat.
You don't want to be eaten by the machine that churned out all these Hollwood man's men. They were used through and through everywhicg way imaginable.
@@riggs58 yes, movies can.. but they have been screwing it up for a while now.. trying to change it into something they think we should be, rather than what we are.
I think Timothy Olyphant has played a couple of great "tough guy" characters in Deadwood and Justified. I pictured him as a good Dirty Harry if that character is ever rebooted (time is running for him on that, though) . I don't know if he's a paper tiger like Pedro Pascal 🤔
I heard recently on Caravan of Garbage that Mel Gibson had exactly 16 lines of dialogue in The Road Warrior. That seems like it can't possibly be true, but think about portraying detachment, cleverness, quiet menace and a touch of humanity without saying anything. I don't see a Pedro pascal doing that.
We need to get Mooler to rewatch Predator ASAP. The soy is starting to take hold of him.
Started?
Truth is that life was not that hard back then. People totally overstate how much easier and better things are now, than they were back then. Watch a few movies or read some books set in the 40s and 50s and you'll learn that's not true. What it is, is our culture has been so debased that the differences between men and women are dissolving. Not only were men more "manly" back then, women were also more beautiful and feminine than women are now. That can't be attributed to an easy or difficult life.
Young actors today don’t smoke and I suppose that helps them look young longer. However, no actor today has any hope of ever looking as cool as Sean Connery in the opening sequence of Dr. No when he first introduces himself as Bond, James Bond while lighting a cigarette.
Sunken chest soy boys are what we have in films today.
No Platoon. We need more grit. I f*cking HATE weak men more than anything. Like Platoon and Mauler.
One Hundred percent agree.. also drinker is a bit of a weak man when it comes to smug Mauler.."oh sorry Mauler I'm so sorry i didn't mean to dislike what you love I take it all back".. needs to stand his ground and just go at it with the dwarf
Platoon and Mauler are proper weaklings.
Some of that hard ruggedness comes from hard manual labor. Something I am glad my Dad made sure I was doing and that others would greatly benefit from.
Baggage Claim had the best input. Even Crisp Rat at his peak was a manchild archetype.
Masculine Men went out with Chaste Women, it seems.
...let's bring it back!
1. Testosterone levels have signifcantly decreased since WW.2. 2. Nutrition and healthcare have improved dramatically.
3. Comparatively, the offspring post Boom suffer from arrested development which manifests both emotionally and physically.
And there's various additional relatively smaller but quite common reasons people (even as young as 20) looked so much older 50 to 100 years ago, including but not limited to: the sheer amount of alcohol consumption on a casual daily basis, and how it was so common for many men to not drink much water (i.e. poor hydration), the constant exposure to smoking and passive smoking (affecting numerous aspects of one's interior and exterior health), little attention paid to skincare in men (e.g. little or no UV protection when working long hours under the sun, moisturising, etc) and so on. You could even include pre-natal and post-natal nutrition and care as being considerable life-long factors.
Eastwood spent how many hours in the sun in his childhood then on set for "Rawhide" when he was in his late twenties where he was on horses, doing fight scenes for 11 hours per day? of course he looked more aged and rugged at forty than a lot of forty year olds now... so many older people just did more outdoors and were under daily physical duress way more than this new generation which seems softer and with many more mental issues which seems to prevent them from doing much besides making online content and complaining. we have an entire tik tok world of kids coming up who don't get outdoors unless they are getting in and out of their cars to go to Sephora and Starbucks- they really just have nothing in common with people from the fifties and sixties who were working doing things setting tobacco all day in the sun from age five until they left home and married, and caring for family farms and gardens their entire lives. even hollywood stars back then came from hard-working families who struggled. now there are just a lot of nepo babies.
How come when he was seventy he looked like he looked like he was in his fifties.
MauLer brought up a good point with Pedro Pascal. Game Joel and Series Joel are not the same character, but I believe they work for their respective roles and worlds. It’d be similar to Hugh Jackman’s interpretation of Wolverine. Movie Wolverine and Comic Wolverine are RADICALLY different characters, but I appreciate Jackman’s dedication and portrayal to the role. I love both interpretations, though I prefer the character found in the comics, and that’s perfectly okay.
It's not about hard times, it's about testosterone deficiency. I live in Eastern Europe and life here has improved in 20+ years, but people don't look like children in most cases.
I like to note the vocal character of the actors of mid twentieth century films. William Holden, Bogart, Henry Fonda, even funny men like Jack Lemmon. There was something refined but sharp, grown up, and distinctly masculine about those voices. Just listen with your eyes closed and it's clear as a bell.
George Clooney is as close as you will find to that quality today.