Making INSANE Power With A Stock 302 Block and Vortech Supercharger | Retro 5.0
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- čas přidán 4. 03. 2024
- In this installment of the Retro 5.0 project, we install an off-the-shelf Vortech Fox Body Si-Trim kit on our engine, and make absolutely ridiculous power on the dyno. But, will the stock block survive? #ford #engine #supercharged
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I winced with every pull on the dyno. Im impressed that it stayed together under boost. Some of them lived for years of racing seasons with the right tune. Good video... as usual.
I believe the ballistic rating of the dyno room glass was questioned at least once. LOL
wonder how much that main girdle is helping it stay together; looks aluminum so it should be additional vibration dampening?
@jojog8304 the main girdle is steel, and pretty rigid.
Dude I love all the 80's stuff. We are one. lol
That is awesome!
The engine will last a lot longer on a dyno vs going down the track in a 3200 lbs foxbody!
Exactly our feelings, which is why version 2 is coming. :)
I’ve been low key waiting for this video the past month after watching the last one. Makes me really think twice about going with a coyote swap. Great content!!
I appreciate it! But don't second guess a Coyote. They are awesome engine platforms.
Please don’t perpetuate the 500hp myth. Excellent job by the way. The way the centrifugal makes boost is why it can handle much more. Now 600 plus torque at low rpm with a turbo, might be a different deal.
I mean... the block is in one piece. I think we're doing more to dispel the myth than perpetuate it. But wives tale or not, I've seen broken blocks, and I don't want to put the stock block in the car at 800-plus horsepower. Running the risk of splitting a block on the dyno is one thing; doing it in the car is a whole different proposition.
Wow. Thats a great power curve
Awesome build series…👍🏼
The outfit is so on point! LOL The video is great too.
Unbelievable……great test!
Thats awesome on the stock block!
Definitely was a nail biter as to whether it would stay together or not.
80's Greg with no hat - here for that AND the engine!!
Subscribed and following along, actually helping a friend who just built basically the same motor for his 91 fox with the exception of TFS intake and instead of a supercharger it’s got an on3 turbo kit, wondering what your idling @ cause I noticed in your last video it was around 1100 and funny enough my friends car is around the same with 60lbs deka injectors.
We never really played with the idle settings too much on the dyno other than getting the IAC dialed in, because we were short for time in each session. I feel like we could probably get a decent idle out of this combo. Looking at the new cam specs for Version 2... not so much. LOL
No way thats insane
Awesome engine Ford power forever baby very impressive 302 ho was something very special for sure come get some chevy and dodge
Jimmy please
Awesome work Donut! The biggest thing that kills the block in my experience are the RPM's, keep 'em around 6000 and the stock block can live longer at higher HP's.
Thanks Chris! At the end of the day, I wouldn't really ever be able to trust the stock block in the car. So, a new shortblock it is!
Smart move, time for big power :)
also rebalanceing the rotating assemble to zero balance with help it live a long time.....I ran a 600 hp twin turbo charged stock block for many years with no issues.
@WienerSnitzel337 was it 600 to the wheels? Also it's easier to push more from a turbo on any engine vs a supercharger. It won't see as much stress at xxx power level as it would w a blower at same power level.. people generally push engines to higher hp numbers on average on stock block and stock bottom end stuff with turbos vs blowers from what I've seen. Also being on really good fuel helps. So turbo and e85 is the safest way to make the most hp aka it's more likely to stay together at higher power levels.
Its amazing what some stock block will take while others split. I've seen an 850hp stock block survive hundreds of trips down the 1/4 and a 450hp stock blocj die on its 3rd run. I'd really like to see a 100% bone stock bottom end see what it could do. Oem grade bearings, stock bolts, etc.
It's all about balance.the vibrations is what kills them n causes them to split.look up project stock bottom end.he has a 302 pushing over 900hp n has made thousands of passes with it
@@michaelmayer8618 I've seen it. It's just crazy how some stock bottom ends have perfectly balanced cranks and others don't. Well not just cranks the entire thing is balanced right. Makes sense why some spin way higher than others. Curious how many have girdles, upgraded dampers, bolts/studs, and other things to old it together. While still maintaining stock internals
Time to try the 11R 190cc heads on a 408 stroker
The e85's combustion stability allows the engine block to survive at that power level
Pump gas is harder on components even at lower power levels due to less combustion stability characteristics
i think you just like saying combustion stability
Very cool. It would have been interesting to see what the IAT was
I don't remember exactly off the top of my head, but I'm sure it's in the datalogs. I do remember thinking it was a lot lower than we thought it might be without an intercooler.
What was the timing at during this?
Awesomeness!!!! 🇺🇸💪🏼
I'm building a 333 with a Boss 302 block... AFR'S Eagle rotating assembly, w Mahle pistons... 😊 should be close to what your doing...
Great content ! Do You have a video of the actual assembly of the engine and any block preparation that was done ? Any info available will be Greatly appreciated ! Thank You 🇺🇸🇵🇷🦊👍
Thanks! We have a full series on the engine's prep and build here: www.enginelabs.com/project/project-engine-retro-5-0/
That engine will produce that power comfortably on an engine dyno. That same engine with a strong clutch and some good traction will rattle it apart
What fuel was used? Mentioned starting e85, not sure if it changed
Everything in this video was on BOOSTane Race E85. We did test with other fuel after this for another article that should be out soon.
watching
👍
Can you tell me what spark plugs you ran in this combo pretty please? 🙏
Autolite 3922s at... .027 I think.
That is an awesome milll, to be sure! Just a silly question, what's the fuel mileage on that about four blocks to a gallon?😂 I guess it really doesn't matter when you're traveling FTL! 👍😁👍
I could probably calculate it at WOT using BSFC... it was GULPING that E85 on the dyno, though.
Now, when you talk about a split block, im assumimg you mean a 1980s rollor 5.0 and not a classic 302.. yes, they both are 302 cid, but ones known as the rollor 5.0 (the block that splits) and the other being just a 302. The 302 blocks are very strong.. the 5.0 rollor block is not so strong, supposedly.
Bowtie guys are saying no way
I really don't want to do a Retro 305. LOL But, we are talking about possibly doing more engines like this in the future.
Doubt it
when the block splits between the cam and the crank how do you fix that
Get a new block.
That Dyno looks about as old as the mustang that engine came in
What brand balancer was installed?
Fluidampr.
Hey friend what pulley sizes were used??? What were the intake temps like?
Both are the stock out of the box Fox kit pieces. 6.87 crank and 3.33 blower. I've gotta pull the data logs for the IATs, but I remember them being really reasonable for no intercooler.
@@EngineLabs I just did a basic 331 with some aluminum china clone heads, cam, GT40 intake, and a V3 si trim with a 6.87 crank and 3.12 pulley on supercharger. I guess it’s going to make some steam! What’s your timing curve like? I did a meth water injection setup. I need to dyno mine. I think the clutch and transmission are ready to throw in the towel. I don’t take mine passed 6K just to be safe.
Picked similar for a Boss 302
Si: 51,900 at 7k; 6.87/3.33; 52k max
Si: 51,900 at 6k; 8/3.33; 52k max
🔥🔥🔥🔥
351 is so cheap these days. Why not have the extra strength and cubes. Then the stroker possibilities it’s really a no brainer. Cool video but I wonder what’s cracking the blocks. Transbrakes maybe or high boost (massive torque)early.
size and weight.
Have to think about it, its designed to be a 200hp engine so even at 500hp you are double the required specs. As with all stock parts, some might do 10x design while others give it up at 1.5x design.
Bad ass
So, when are we starting the Ford Muscle engine build
@FordMuscle Which one? LOL
@@EngineLabs I mean....there are a few to choose from and a few others to purchase.
@@FordMuscle Let's Goooo!
Ls who?
Granted the block will split in half in a very short time…
Power with power adder and cubic inch, very impressive! 👍🤘👏
LS would absolutely kill this.
What size injectors are y’all using?
Deatschwerks 78 lb/hr injectors. We ended up bumping base fuel pressure up for additional headroom.
@@EngineLabs awesome! I appreciate it..
@@EngineLabsthat's pretty low lb/hr for those numbers, but that explains raising the fuel pressure.
@pimpovic2 not really. 78s at 43.5psi are dead on for 775 crank with a blower and E85 at 85% duty cycle. The blower's listed max HP is 775, which is why we sized them where we did.
@@EngineLabspeople don’t think E85 requirements be like they do
Did you guys ever run it on pump gas
We just released the article comparing the E85 pulls to Pump 93 with octane booster here: www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/fuel-cooling/testing-boostane-pump-gas-vs-race-e85-on-the-dyno-with-retro-5-0/
The stock block killer is that junk ass 50 oz crank that hates anything beyond 6k. I broke 3 of them. The block is not the problem.
We've got that 50oz imbalance on this one. Going to 7K was "send it now, and pick up the pieces later" mindset.
Mate for sure your statement is true, but the blocks just don't have the correct amount of iron under the main bearing sadles continuing up into the cam tunnel, adding 3.00" neutral balanced forged crank with 5.4" rod would be heaps better, also I wonder about using crappy main bolts instead of ARP studs seams to help, as letting the bolt flex and the cap walk slightly is better than a rigid main studs pull the block apart
Love to see that on a retro 289...Carroll said those 289,s turned 8,000 rpm all day and all night and lived .
Orly? Thats crazy, i pushed 540hp on one and ran 7500+rpm never split the block. Of course thats Not actually that much hp i understand that but its still more than people claim it can handle
Btw its the valley that splits not anything to do with the mains or how much iron there is there.. its the papper thin valley that causes them to split.
No that little old 302 the block split right into any thing over 500 hp that’s what those GM Boys told me😮😂
Wish i knew someone that could help me with my 88 mustang, its my 1st build, its the original block but all new scat 331 stroker internals and all new trick flo top end kit, 170 heads stage 1 cam, systemax upper and lower, complete new everything, besides a bad surging idle it did great after warmup, the problems started when i put bbk 1"-3/4 longtubes on it, it acts like it running out of air or fuel at mid open throttle, like a flat thudding spot, hard to describe but something is going on, i put a new 75MM MAF calibrated to 24lb injectors with accel 24lb injectors and upgraded fuel pump, car still has stock computer so thats my next move is getting the holley terminater ecu and hope that fixes it, also gonna put the mac shorty headers back on it becouse it ran way better with those, everything got worse with those longtubes, if anyone is considering bbk longtubes i wouldn't do it unless you have a turbo or supercharged mustang
Was it converted to maf? Unless a CA car, 88 was speed density, which makes adding a cam tough. Could do basic tune W/O a chip, set base timing, and adjust fuel pressure, but may need a c&l maf for 24#. confirm you have the right ecu
i got mac shorty headers, 42ibs injectors, complete trickflow upper end with a vortec and a stock computer. car runs strong. it still has to be tuned this fall.
If you are pushing north of 400hp, best to go with a stronger aftermarket block.
400? where are you getting this number from
Maybe 400rwhp through a turbo400
411 on the engine dyno is 311 wheel stick 295 auto or so
Who is losing 25 percent to a stick???
I agree .thats an iron block.
Brian looks like Don Mattingly
Hmmm... I've never really seen that, but maybe I can get him to grow a mustache and I'll go dig out some old baseball cards and do a comparison.
I literally watched the snout of cranck walk then the belt went
You did what now?
@@EngineLabs I new it was throwing a belt, crank can't take it, but what do I no, I've only got 585n/a 302 that's lived for 21yrs, also getting ready for another street/ race season soon
I bet u put a dial indicator on balancer u see walk/flex, y belt left, also my party days were a blast 20yrs ago also, fords been proven yrs ago to have better steel then others,
The stock block will not split at or after 500. Long-standing heavily depends on the tune, baseline use.
If your making rips every traffic light vs twice a month at the track.
Miller proved this over period of three seasons and being the fastest stock block 5.0 to date.
Do you have any links to Miller? Would like to read his content. Thanks
Wow 829hp is getting it done , but Dart or boss or world block is needed
Without a doubt. That's where Version 2 is going!
Block can hold a 1000hp. It's harmonics that split them. Proper balancing and girdle minimizing harmonics and it will hold up. Easily.
Too much music can’t hear the words
Good pistions... = NO CLAIM to stock bottom bro
Please show everyone the stock bottom end claim. Do you mean stock block? Maybe stock crank?
Sò you basically made what ford made with their warranteed roush blower install.
LOL... wut?
Anything lives on a dyno, drive it, dont get what ur trying to prove
You seem like you're fun at parties.
What did your car run? 14's?
600+ is a base stage 1 Roush blower before the stage 2 hit 700+....this isn't particularly impressive or new.
LOL... wut?
New steel timing cover and gorder and cement it