Natalie definitely deserved the Oscar, because as Sarah said, Oscars are for ACTING. Sarah found it disrespectful to ballerinas everywhere that so many people ACTUALLY believed someone could become a prima ballerina in only a year and a half, when in reality, it could take a decade or more of nearly constant training. She didn't care that she herself wasn't properly credited, she just wanted people to know that, no, it takes more than just a year and a half to become THAT good.
But why? Who was she trying to convince? Non-dancers? There was NO reason for her to come out and speak. Who did she help? Who was getting HURT by this? No one. Who did it try to hurt? We all know that one. What harm would it have caused if she didn't speak out? She's not a whistle-blower, defending people who are getting hurt by the actions of a bad corporation. I assure you, NO ONE who watched the movie cared if she danced the entire thing. There was no reason for her to come and pretty much 'tattle' except for the attention. She HELPED no one and could have potentially HURT someone.
Lisa Marghella I don’t think she was doing it for attention. If you actually paid attention to what she said instead of babbling off with ignorance you would understand that she was just making a point. She obviously wasn’t tattling, just stating facts and wanting credit. You on the other hand definitely want attention. 🙄
@@lisamarghella8002 Even if she did it for attention she deserves it. People shouldnt praise a skinny actress that already had a ballerina type body, for dances that she herself didnt do. Of course we should credit the stunt doubles and dancers, and instrument players that make the scene believable.
before she starts whining about getting credit she should think about thousands of other stunt men out there who work passionately for their support roles as well but they don't bitch about it online
The fact Natalie Portman didn't dance in some scenes doesn't affect her Oscar nomination and winning. The last time I checked, she won the Oscar in Best Actress category, not for Best Dancer.
Without those dance performances, it would have been a different movie. The dance performances made the movie, which was about a ballerina that became mentally ill, not an actor who became mentally ill. No Oscar was deserved.
For anyone who genuinely thought that Natalie did ALL the dancing, seriously? Becoming a ballerina takes years and years of training, there is absolutely no way she could have learnt to do all of that in such a short space of time. It is rather obvious that a dance double was used...
Boom Chicka It's doesn't look hard, but don't let that fool you because it's actually really hard to do. I'm not sure why you put figure skating in comparison because that and ballet are completely two different things.
Boom Chicka You're joking right? It takes years of training to be able to perform with grace and beauty and not making it look like every inch of our leg and feet are in hell. Everyone thinks that ballet is easy but it takes so much effort and most of the time you think you're doing it right but in reality you have those little errors that professional dancers and directors could see, which is an automatic decrease. The point of ballet is to make it look like it's easy but you don't know that dancers cry backstage because of pain on their toes, feet and legs. Not even a year can make you as good as you should be, maximum of 8-12 hours of training EVERY DAY. Sometimes 3-4 hours on ballet shoes and then 8 hours of pointe shoes which is grueling as fuck. So your comment is insulting because it takes everything to be a professional ballerina
Boom Chicka Of course it doesn't look difficult to you because Portman's arm waving you saw in Black Swan was at most only 1/1000th of what a real ballerina has to perform as Odette/Odile in an actual production of Swan Lake. Watch Svetlana Zakharova's entrance and pas de deux as Odile with the Bolshoi Ballet. Then re-watch Portman's Odile near the end of the movie. Portman completely lacks the subtle nuances, extension and artistry required to be a convincing ballerina and laughably looks stiff as a board throughout the movie. So a year and half is definitely not enough, not even for the little she had to do in the film.
I'm not sure it's possible if you start late. I didn't start taking ballet until I was 19. I was NEVER able to dance sur la pointe. My back and core were strong, and my legs were good. But my ankles never got strong enough to do anything on one leg sur la pointe. I took seven classes a week because I loved it so much.
Natalie did take ballet as a child,but yes this girl did a lot of the dancing,BUT Academy Awards are for acting,not dancing and the scenes where Natalie isn't dancing are all HER.
+Hartleyfan2 They're not denying that Portman deserved the Oscar, they complain about the way she and the production acted like she had made 80% of the dancing parts, when, in fact, she only did the port de bras parts and faces. And in which case, we could even discuss if those were actin or dancing parts. The Oscar was obviously well given to her.
I never said Natalie was a professional ballerina,she took LESSONS as a kid and for the role in the film,but for people to suggest Natalie didn't deserve an Oscar for ACTING because she didn't do 100% of dancing in a film is nuts.Yes this girl deserves props and respect for her dancing,but Oscars are not for dancing and the scenes that don't include dancing that is 100% Natalie.
@@nateriver8223 Portman did a great job of "spotting" the spins. She clearly had studied some because most people have no idea how important spotting is, much less how to do it. Her port de bras were good, and she WALKED like a dancer. I give her a great deal of credit for doing even those things very well. But no one who hasn't studied dance for years can dance as Nina does in this film. It is simply wrong to imply that anyone can do that with only 18 months' study.
Because is still not fair!!! She work really hard!! She deserves to have her recognition!! The movie has bigger than it was supposed to be!! Is time for people to stop putting celebrities on a pedestal
Desirée Rodríguez so... they told her before the film "you won't get recognition for this". she says "ok, not here for the fame". after the film gets out: "hey, but here i am!! i did the dancing!!!"
SparkzMxzXZ seriously doubt it went that way!!!!... and that still doesnt make it ok... Im not saying portman did not deserved her oscar!! because I saw plenty of scenes about her characters schizophrenia... but a lot of dancing... and she is right!! close ups of her face DO NOT COUNT AS DANCING!!... still doesnt make it ok, i see people insulting her like she has to take it... AND SHE DOESNT... is time for people to realize that celebrities dont make movies alone!!
Funny thing, the director didn't want you to know she couldn't do the things people were giving her credit for. Really though hardly a fair comparison, see ballerinas are real, and it is degrading to them to allow people to believe a person can master a craft like that in a year. Frankly I assumed she HAD done quite a bit of it, not all but a lot, and she clearly didn't do much of any of the complex dancing, well frankly none of the complex dance sequences. I have never studied Ballet, most people haven't.
She didn't want credit for herself. She wanted credit for her CRAFT! Natalie Portman's acting was honest work. But the producers must not have felt that her acting was enough to secure the Oscar. They wanted the world to believe that she learned professional ballet technique in a year's time. THAT was dishonest. It's not about who did it, it's about respecting professional ballet dancers and the fact that they spend their LIVES perfecting their craft and it's an insult to insinuate that it's that easy. I like Natalie Portman's work. Even as a child she was an awesome actress. She shouldn't need to lie to get an Oscar.
But she took ballet lessons for a year and a half? She dedicated her life to that movie role for a year and a half? Yeah obviously she did not become a professional ballerina in a year's time but she did obviously learn professional ballet techniques under professional ballet dancers. Why should she not get credited for that hard work? Why is it that we never see stunt doubles cry about getting credit the way this ballerina did?
@@saemunduremilsson8106 yes, she needed 2 years to do the simple thing what 6 y.o. kids can handle. And it is absolutely ok to tell and give her credit for that because in 30’s you usually are not able to learn the basic positions and tenderness. But don’t say, she handled professional ballet.
Natalie totally deserved the oscar whether she did all the moves or not, but that ballerina deserves waaaaay more recognition for what she did and it was right that she stood up for her art.
@@saemunduremilsson8106 it’s more of that the movie directors tried to frame it that Natalie Portman mastered ballet in 1.5 years, and that is pretty offensive and insensitive to the professional ballerinas out there. As Sarah said, she didn’t do it to become famous, only so that people know that it is impossible to dance the swan lake variation with 1.5 years of ballet training
Callie Jet Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I did research after I watched the movie for the first time to see if Natalie did actually dance on pointe. Honestly I couldn't tell, as someone who's never taken ballet. Her acting was amazing, but when I thought she did ALL of the dancing too my jaw dropped.
Trust me, there're people who think vibing to the music equals dancing and thus anyone can do it, cause *they* can. met them personally )).. It's sad how some professionals rush to degrade other professionals based on personal ignorance in someone else's field of expertise..
Oh, come on. First of all, I think it's obvious that no one can become a ballerina in a year and a half and Natalie herself said that they have muscles she doesn't even begin to imagine for YEARS AND YEARS of doing the job. Second, they never denied that Natalie had a double, why would they? Iit's FREAKING OBVIOUS that no one can become a prima ballerina in a year and a half unless you are a magic unicorn or something. Third, I've never actually found a statement by anyone in the movie (not counting this lady) that says Natalie did everything by herself. Yeah, Mila says she deserves all the credict she gets because she busted her ass doing this role, ballet dancing? It's gruelling I've been doing it as my hobby for 14 years and I'm 25% as good as the least talented ballerina in a company. Trying to get as close to them as you can in a year and a half? It's murder. That's why she deserves the credict, because she trained, she worked hard and she gave her everything to do it as good as she could within her capabilities. And last, ok, the REAL Black Swan? You don't want to stir up anything but you go to a magazine and let them use that headline? I've seen her dancing, and it's jawdropping, she is freaking brilliant at it, no one is taking that away from her. But in this case Natalie IS the Black Swan,why? Because Odile and Odette in this film are portrayed as different personality traits of the same person, coincidentally they happen to be a part of a ballet. Like the dancers who say Black Swan is not a reallistic protrayal of a dancer's life... WE KNOW. This isn't a story about ballet, it's a story about obsession, compulsion, light, darkness and madness told THROUGH ballet. Did Natalie deserve her Oscar because she happened to dance really well in this film? Nope. Did she deserve it for an absolutelly jawdropping portrayal of a psychotic obsesive-compulsive woman in a very very very demanding possition? YES. Now ask yourselves, what was Portman playing? A dancer? Or a troubled woman who HAPPENED to be a dancer?
Yes, honey.Yes! It's crazy how people doesn't seem to get that. If your last impression after seeing Black Swan is Natalie Portman dancing skill, you're sort of missing the point.
+Savatey Heang and +I can survive Med School I think the point is that the powers that be tried to sweep Sarah under the rug to increase Natalie's chances of winning an Oscar. We will never know if it was necessary or not. Without Sarah's brilliant work, there would've been no movie. But hey, that's Hollywood. A lot of smoke and mirrors. There was one full-body scene where they did use Natalie standing at the barre. Standing en pointe with sickled feet was the dead give away to anyone with a trained eye that her abilities were limited. I loved Natalie's portrayal of the character and especially the scenes with Barbara Hershey. And while I can hugely appreciate the effort and training Natalie undoubtedly went through, even her dancing closeups were not believable to anyone who understands ballet and how it's supposed to look. Professional ballerinas are exquisite freaks of nature. It is iMPOSSIBLE for a 28 yr old to acquire even half of what Sarah did. I applaud Sarah Lane for having the courage to set the record straight. She deserved a thank you. That is all.
Sarah deserved nothing tbh. Without her, there would be movie with a different double. One that hopefully wouldn't have gone to a magazine, let them publish an article called THE REAL BLACK SWAN and then claim she did not do it for recognition.
Why so many dislikes? The rumor spread fast that Natalie Portman "learned ballet in a year" or "in 6 months" and she wanted to defend that. It's not like she was trying to get Portman to lose out on an Oscar, she just wanted to defend ballet. Oscars are for acting and Portman nailed that part.
She took ballet lessons for over a year, for 5 hours a day. So yeah, she did learn ballet in a year. Obviously not to the point of becoming a professional ballerina but she deserves credit for her dancing too.
katie Logan you are absolutely correct, and I agree with you 100%. Her acting wasn't that spectacular.Without another skill (like dancing, singing, etc) she would never have won the other nominees, those were good mature a-list stars. It was defenitely a scam and her Oscar win is one of the most shameful wins ever.
she's speaking out because they made this facade that natalie did most of the dancing with just one year of training. this means natalie's performance was judged not only on her acting (which was great), but also the ballet. so comparing this to actors who use stunt doubles is not the same. if this wasn't true, there would be no reason why producers asked her to stop giving interviews until the oscars were over. her giving this interview does not automatically mean she wants fame - she just wants it to be known that you cannot master ballet in a year. it's an insult to the dancers who work/have worked long and hard for their profession. anyway, i think the film is brilliant. natalie and sarah both did great, and the oscar was deserved regardless.
They asked her to stop because she was trying to pull the attention towards her with this kind of shitshows, even after agreeing the credit would be limited. I mean, she even danced the part in front of the journalists to prove it was her. Okay, good job. The movie was not about you though.
As for the movie, and the dance scenes that are showed, Natalie did 90 percent of the dancing. The director of the movie literally had an editor go over each frame of natalie dancing and concluded that she did 90 percent of the dancing that was shown in the end result. And ballerinas do not risk their lives like stunt doubles do, they literally break bones and injure themselves being stunt doubles yet you don't see them crying and over not getting all of the credit? She did this purely because she wanted attention and was probably a bit jealous. The made no 'facade' out of natalie's dancing when she DID do the majority of the dancing that was shown in the movie. And she also did work hard for a year and a half training ballet so she does deserve recognition for that as well. She acted and danced phenominally.
Natalie 100% deserved the Oscar for her incredible acting! But the whole point is that Sarah deserves more credit for the dancing because you can’t just become that talented in a sport in just a year and a half!
"I did my work and I’m in the majority of the film. I did have a dance double for the most difficult sequences. It was just unfortunate, the entire situation. She’s a wonderful dancer and hopefully people will get to see her in her company. I’m sorry that she felt unacknowledged." -Natalie on Sarah Lane
I don't see why she is getting so much hate. It is true that they tried to hint that Natalie Portman was able to become a ballerina after a short time. If the dancer's incentive really is to give ballet justice, then i think she is completely right to speak up. Ballet dancers need so much discipline to get to where they are and start super young, and for someone to say "Hey, we were able to get this almost 30 years old actress to do something close to what you do in less than two years", I'd guess they'd feel a little cheapened. (Benjamin millepied even said Natalie danced better than a lot of ballerinas he knew). On another note, I loved that movie and I think it probably helped to make ballet a little bit more popular than it was.
Mengmeng Di Not to mention, if people get the idea that THEY could do that kind of dancing in a year and a half....jeez, ballet's dangerous. It's so demanding on your body that you absolutely need the 10-20 years to build up ankle, foot, muscle strength, all of that. Some fool's going to get injured.
@@marszenka excellent point! I did competitive dance including Pointe for years up until grade 12 and my body is soooo screwed up from it! And I stopped after 18 years old And that was with years and years of training! And we all knew it's bad lol I remember my first golden star for the first toenail you lost ... we had a chart 😂
I don't believe that Lane was "whining" that she wasn't getting the same amount of praise as Portman or about getting credit at all. It would have been one thing if Lane agreed to do this interview while being credited as a "Dance Double" and if they were honest about it. But Lane was not credited as a dance double (and she even said that Portman deserved her Oscar) and it's obvious that's not where Lane's grief is, it's with the producers claiming that it only took Portman a year to become a professional ballerina when, in reality, it takes several years for that to happen. Imagine if there was a guy who claimed to have become a doctor in a week, would you believe him? No. Would you get mad at real doctors getting mad at that guy for lying? No. I know for a fact that the hard core "Black Swan" fans and the hardcore Natalie Portman fans are just going to dismiss any legitimate arguments and tell those who side with Lane instead of the producers to shut up, but that's proof of this
Michaela Bauer i love natalie portman in this movie and black swan is overall one of my faves but i agree on her point. the fact is that the producers are belittling ballet performers making it seem that you can learn it in such a short span of time.
totally agree.. natalie's performance was amazing, but the whole time i thought she had all that skill in such a short time, it's not so much getting fame, but more so credit for the ballet world.
Lol imagine comparing ballerinas to doctors smh. And they probably meant professional as in she took lessons for 5 hours a day for a little over a year. That's dedication right there. And she did 90 percent of the dancing in the final product. You don't see stunt doubles whine about not getting credit do you? and they literally break bones and get injured and potentially risk their lives. That's because people with common sense know that almost all actors have a body double for things that the actor isn't equipped for. Hell, I know of a guy that acted as a body double for Christian Bale while shooting The Dark Knight. He never got any recognition. The fact of the matter is that Natalie's acting was amazing and her ballet technique was amazing for someone that only took lessons for a year while also losing 20 pounds and preparing for such a difficult role. She worked hard for that oscar and deserved it. Why would ballerinas deserve some special attention and recognition when stunt doubles don't?
@@saemunduremilsson8106 she absolutely did not do 90% of the dancing, that's the dancer's whole point. There's a huge misconception on what it takes to be a professional dancer and production greatly exaggerated Portman's skill to the general public. You cannot learn to dance like that with that level of skill in a year and a half. By lying that Portman did it discredits the amount of work every professional dancer has done for many, many years to get to that level. The vast majority of professional dancers start before they're five years old. Give credit where credit is due.
Anyone who's danced professionally or competitively like myself knows right off the bat it wasn't Natalie dancing... not discrediting her acting of course but unless Natalie danced competitively when she was young, there's no way that could've been her. It's just logical. I completely understand the ballerina, I hate when people belittle the art of ballet.
And I quote " No I didn't do the movie to get credit or fame." The film makers said a double was used. Where is the crime here? It seems to me someone was starting to get jealous and needed some attention.
They elaborated on it at the end. It's more the fact that Natalie was praised as having learned those moves in a year and a half which, to a professional ballerina, could be insulting. It's just sort of a derogatory statement to something that takes years upon years to perfect, especially to someone who does it professionally and knows that.
all the people hating on this girl have no idea how hard it is to be a professional dancer. if she was doing all this for fame she would have gotten a lawyer and a better contract to get credit from the start. she only started speaking out when people wrongfully assumed natalie had learned most of the dancing herself and didn't want the artform dilluted into an easily learned skill anyone could acquire if you 'just worked hard enough'.
Natalie does deserve credit for her dancing. No, of course she is not on the same level as a ballet dancer that has done it for years and years, but for her only taking lessons for a year she did damn well and deserves credit for that as she did about 90 percent of the dances in the movie. She worked hard for that role. You want to talk about how hard it is to be a professional dancer? You think it is not hard work to be an actor? She took lessons for a year and lost 20 pounds for that role. Christian Bale starved himself for his role in the machinist then bulked up again for batman. And what about stunt doubles? Why do they not cry about their credit when we know most if not all actions scenes in all movies are stunt doubles?
Epiphanie Always i agree & that's her issue. Not that Natalie didn't deserve the award but for the misinformation or the perception that Natalie did ALL her own dancing. I liked the film and didn't for one moment think it was all Natalie dancing. That skill takes yearrrrss to learn. I'm not naive lol
Obviously she deserved the oscar because her acting was incredible, but to base the oscar on her ballet transformation is where the issue is. And the fact that the producers pretended that she had done all of the dancing is very deceptive.
"Anybody with common sense knew that there was definitely a double dancing NOBODY perfects ballet in a year or even a few years." - Alani Lagoa (I copied and pasted her CZcams comment). Look, if people are dumb enough to think Natalie danced all of it, it's not her fault or the producers fault.
Team Xtreme well Natalie shouldn't have taken the credit for it. It's not fair they kept the dancer hush hushed. Nobody with a brain believed that was Natalie in the actual dancing. That's true. To say Natalie did "all the dancing" in a years time is a slap in the face to all the ballerinas who dedicate years and their entire life to the art, sports, and wear & tear. I think Natalie should've been more honest and spoke out about the fact her double did the dancing. Close ups aren't real dancing like the ballet said. I can move my arms but to do all the spins ugh 😑 I knew that movie was overrated
Rachel Lorie Show me where Natalie explicitly said that she did all the dancing. Plus, I'm sure her career would've been actively hurt had she went against the director's commands. Besides, it was not hidden. There are magazines/articles talking about Sarah that were published in the same year the movie was released.
@@rachellorie3332 How is it not fair when stunt doubles are kept 'hush hushed' ? They are body doubles and get paid for that. And she did take ballet lessons for a year and she did do majority of the dancing seen in the film. You think actors don't go through a lot for their role? You think Natalie didn't sweat and bleed in her ballet lessons? Never have I seen any stunt double come out with this kind of nonsense.
@@saemunduremilsson8106 there are all kinds of stunts and all kinds of body doubles. Some people get killed doing dangerous stunt work. Sometimes a "body double" is just a shot of someone else's butt. Ballet dancing is insanely difficult and demanding. It should have been in the contact of the ballerina that she would be acknowledged. And yes, many people definitely believed Natalie did all the dancing..people who have no clue about the world of ballet. Sound editing gets acknowledged. Mixing gets acknowledged. Lighting..etc, etc. Someone who worked decades to master her craft should be acknowledged too.
She talks as if the dancing itself was the reason why the movie became famous. Common, we all know that the movie was a hit because the acting was amazing, the story was creepy and the script was genius. Jesus. Besides, what about fricking superhero movies? Nobody complains when they use stunt doubles. And they obviously do. This interview is just bullshit.
she never implies dancing was why the movie did well. i'm sure if everyone hated the movie she would still feel the same that everyone is crediting someone else for work it took you 22 years to accomplish. that and it is fucked up to never be thanked or recognized when something you were a part of is winning mad awards.
No she doesn't so re watch the video and pay attention this time. Why are you purposely taking her words out of context? Is English NOT your first language or what?
in super hero movies it is obvious that they used stunt double but in black swan even the director lied about it and i do personally think the dancing is an important part in natalie's performance i do think the dancing makes natalie's performance wayyyyy more impressive and sarah deserves more credit
It's not about whether or not Natalie did a great job. Sara even said she deserved that Oscar and anybody her obviously agrees that she's a tremendous actress. But this is about giving credit where credit is due. Not only did the director blatantly lie about how much of the dancing was Natalie Portman he also specifically told the dancer not to talk about it. Portman did an amazing job as an actress, and she can even be commended for enduring serious ballet training for the movie. That being said, to insinuate that she could become as good as a professional ballerina with only a year and a half of training is a slap in the face to dancers who spent almost their entire lives training to get where they are now. And yes, in order to be at a professional level you have to start as early as possible in order to train your body properly.
As a former ballet dancer, while sitting in the audience at Black Swan in a move theatre, I could tell that most of the dancing shots were performed by a double. My fiance kept asking me if Natalie was performing certain parts, and I kept telling him that as far as I could tell, she was doing mostly just the acting (the face shots). I even suggested that computer techniques were used to superimpose her face on a double. I think Natalie deserved an Oscar for acting. However, it would have been great if Sarah Lane had been recognized more (and maybe even awarded an Oscar for best double--that would be a great category, especially since there are so many other categories awarded other than acting) for her vital role. It's incredible the lack of recognition she received. She probably worked 3 to 6 hours a day (or more) since age seven or so honing her skills as a dancer, and yet there is minimal recognition for this. In this regard, she's not just a typical stunt double.
Natalie Portman was dancing in 28 out of 35 scenes and did approximately 80% of the work load. The double only did a small part of the work, and she is even lucky she got this much recognition. Often on movie sets doubles are contractually obligated to remain anonymous. Natalie trained 5 hours a day 7 days a week for a little over a year before pre-production and paid for it all out of her own pocket. She was approached about the project 10 years prior to filming and had taken a few classes here and there before starting the brunt of her training. The only work the double did was the very intricate point work and that was mostly during shots that were zoomed in on Ninas feet. That and a few more very intricate/difficult moves. What makes me the most upset about this is that this woman comes out seeking publicity and people start doubting Portman's ability as a dancer.
She is able to work as a professional dancer and get paid for it. She got her name in the credits and paid her bills. I don't think she deserves more. Plenty of women work as hard and as long and are comparably good but get passed over for other reasons. She's one of the lucky ones.
Hollywood is arrogant and stupid. Natalie was wonderful but the real dancer deserved credit. Voice actors get credit. I didn't think less of Natalie Wood because Marnie Nixon dubbed her songs. The Academy didn't either. Hey Hollywood! It takes enormous effort and dedication on a daily basis for YEARS to achieve this level of skill. Were you not paying attention to your story?
right, but it wouldn't be the first time this happens, actually when marnie nixon dubbed songs (not only for natalie wood), she was forbbiden to make this public and actually bullyed so she wouldn't do it. I think it's ok for the dancer to speak out.
Hollywood is not a world of dancing. It's filmmaking and acting. She came in knowing she won't get full credit and it's not like she was completely discredited.
Ok and what about stuntmen that break bones and injure themselves and even risk their lives? Why do we not see them crying about not being credited? All of the biggest movies in the industry have stunt doubles and I have never seen one cry about not being credited? She was hired as a double and she got payed and credited and that's that. And yes, when we look at the final result of the movie Natalie DID do about 90 percent of the dancing and she does deserve credit for that as well as her acting. She took ballet lessons for a year and a half, lost 20 pounds and gave an amazing performance as Nina.
Looking the movie again... It doesn't really have THAT much ballet actually... BUT I still understand this girl!!, people need to stop putting celebrities on a pedestal!! And stop thinking that celebrities make movies alone...
Taehyungs Wife she did the movie because it was an interesting job... not knowing how big the movie will turn out to be... you agree that dancing was a big part of the movie??? right?? do you think is fair she doesnt have any credit??? and yet portman got an oscar?? dancing was a big part of the role, ( not all of it) but a BIG PART and the fact that people believed that portman did the dancing infuriates me too!! people need to stop believing celebrities do movies alone.... I understand her completely and she was right!!! is not nice seeing someone take credit for your work... you will be pissed... stop kissing celebrities asses
Seriously though, everybody who are speaking ill about this girl just grow up. She is very polite and says that she thinks Nathalie did an amazing job. HOWEVER it is impossible for a person to become a ballerina in little more than a year. Actually unless you start of when you are very young -maybe about 6 years old or around that age- you probably will never be able to reach that level of perfection. She is merely tellling it for what it is and as a person in the business she doesn´t want the production of the movie telling lies about the hard work that must be put in. She might be feeling a bit betrayed and for good reason, if it is actually true that people tried to silence her, I mean it shouldn´t matter if she is talking to the press about HER dancing and how they did the effects since the one acting was still Nathalie. Both of them did their job and should each get credit for their own contribution.
Of course se didn't dance herself.. she is an actress not a dancer. & the oscar was for her acting not her dancing. every movie includes doubles & stuntmen & stuntwomen.. so what's the problem with abcs news?
Schoko_Popcorn because she said she had learned to dance herself so that she wouldnt need a stunt double, but she actually did so she lied and thats why they r "exposing" her
@@paulrevere8470 Natalie never said that. She talked about her double in many interviews. But she also did train for 6 months to get everything perfect. The double did the footwork that Natalie couldn't do.
it was no secret she had a body double! of course she couldn't dance like a real ballet dancer with years of training. Her acting was on point and she trained for the part, gossshhh
Nailed it. Did not take it as a career but danced since I was 3 and competitively a few years back. I totally agree. No different at all, just those in action often risk their lives doing it.
Desirée Rodríguez Like in this instance do with a salary and name on he credits. Although they are actually risking their own lives unlike her they don't whine about it later. I find this to be incredibly attention seeking. She got recognition, she was named on the credits and she was paid very well, most stunt doubles don't get paid as much. What more does she want? If the film was about her it would not have been as successful. Portman has a huge fan base.
NeonLadyUK the movie is not about portman either!! and didnt you hear her say that she didnt is not credit as a dancer??!! sorry, but she is right!!, celebrities dont make movies alone! portman did not get to where she is on her own!!
Desirée Rodríguez Agree to disagree. I don't dance anymore on any competitive level but if you ask me she got a very good deal out of it. Better than most stunt doubles who actually risk their lives and other films where dancers are used. She got lots of money, named credits just fished out my copy she defiantly is on mine DVD UK region and recognition. But lets be honest nobody watched the film for this lady. She doesn't have a mainstream fanbase either that's the reality. If she didn't like the terms which would have been laid out in the contract before she even started she should have refused. You don't take the money then whine.
Anniebelle 1414 The director of Black Swan had this to say: “I had my editor count shots. There are 139 dance shots in the film. 111 are Natalie Portman untouched. 28 are her dance double Sarah Lane. If you do the math that’s 80% Natalie Portman. What about duration? The shots that feature the double are wide shots and rarely play for longer than one second. There are two complicated longer dance sequences that we used face replacement. Even so, if we were judging by time over 90% would be Natalie Portman.” The dance double is only speaking out because Portman won an Oscar and Lane is simply trying to steel some of that prestige for herself.
PronounceGaming He's counting close ups of her face, and those are not dance. By saying Natalie did 80% of the ballet in the movie, he's implying that she was on pointe and actually dancing, not just moving her arms and making faces. That's why the dance double had a problem.
oooooh my god. shut up. OF COURSE they used a double! DUH! *enormous eye roll* Natalie's acting won her that Oscar and the academy knew that was a double. this is not a new thing. it's filmmaking
The producers were trying to make people believe Natalie was on par with real ballerinas with only a year and a half of training. That is so disrespectful to all the dancers out there who train religiously from early childhood to get that good. That was where her issue was.
obviously there was a double, but don't discredit Natalie, she did after all train for more then a YEAR! Thats way more that other actors for movies! ya, the real dancer (who trained her whole life) deserves credit, but as her stunt double, that's it. The double trained to became a ballerina not an actress. Natalie never said she became a ballerina in a year, but she learned an trained to ACT as one and gave an amazingly believable preformancce
beautyhearts23 a lot of the emotional scenes included dancing and that included Sarah Lane's body. All Natalie did was look sad or angsty and that's about it, not hard for anyone to do. You don't train for a year and a half to "act" like a ballerina. The studio hyped that up to make it sound like Natalie did most of her own dancing when that wasn't the case at all. I remember this well when the news first came out. Black Swan was a good movie but in no way did Natalie Portman really deserve that Oscar.
This woman has trained most likely her entire life in ballet. She deserves the praise for her dancing. I love this movie, but I wasn't only in love with the acting, it was the dancing as well. Lane deserves her name to be listed in the credits at least. Money will only take you so far, the recognition is what keeps you working. Come on Hollywood, pay credit where it's due.
it was obvious that Natalie didn't do alot of the heavy duty scenes (those that take years to learn) but the ones she did manage showed how dedicated she was to the work. She deserved that Oscar
While watching the movie, I never, for one second believed Natalie P. was doing the professional dancing. Head and distance shots are a dead giveaway. Hats off to dancer Lane fir her professional performance. Kudos the Natalie for her great acting performance.
Natalie OBVIOUSLY didn't dance, you can't achieve that with just a year of preparation there is no mystery there. Still, her acting was impressive, she totally deserved the oscar.
I feel like she was genuine when she said she wasn't seeking for fame, rather she wanted to let people know that most of the foot work was hers (I would assume). She wanted to credit herself for her own work. Someone taking her "work" and saying that it's theirs is just plagiarism.
Oh. Did she really get recognition? Was she awarded of extra money for standing out? Was haters like you less offensive because she stood out to speak for ballet? I think not. She stood out because people need to take ballet seriously and understand the hurdles needed to become a ballerina and start respecting it as a serious art form.
Good for her for standing up for her craft and art form. I don't think she wants fame, she just wants people to understand and appreciate how long it takes to become the kind of dancer she is. It's a shame that she didn't get credit as a dance double and a shame that Ms. Portman didn't have the courtesy to thank her in her Oscar speak, but that kind of thing happens if you don't sign a contract.
I don't think I've ever seen an actor thank their stunt or body double? At least not personally. Should actors list every single person behind an entire film? What about the makeup artists? The editors? The screenwriters, etc? Do they not deserve as much credit as the ballerina then, orrr?
I’m a middle-aged guy, auto mechanic, little out of shape but active and I decided to attempt to replicate this achievement. I took Ballet lessons every week for a year and a half and practiced an hour per day. At the end of that period I auditioned for the Bolshoi in Russia and was granted the lead male character in their production of Swan Lake. I’ve performed in front of crowds around the Globe. I’m proof that it is doable. Respect Natalie!
Good for you, Sarah, for speaking up! The fact that someone from the movie called Sarah to ask her not to talk about her dancing, says a whole lot. It's well known that winning an Oscar involves a lot of behind the scenes lobbying, and they really wanted people to believe that Natalie Portman did all of that dancing. Nothing against Ms. Portman, but ballet dancers, in many cases, start dancing at the age of three. That is a lifetime of very hard work that absolutely cannot be learned in a few months. It IS insulting to the art form and the discipline required to think someone can master the technique and grace of ballet because they did a good job of acting in a movie. It's also deceptive to try and portray acting and dancing as one in the same. Again, good for you, Sarah, and good for ballet!
Just part of the contract, man. Stunt doubles sign a similar contract. Why should some ballerina get some special treatment and spotlight when stunt doubles don't?
If you think Natalie did all the dancing in the movie, you obviously have never danced, nor know the training. The training for becoming a ballerina is very intense, as well as physically taxing. Professional ballet is INCREDIBLY hard, smfh.
That is kind of stupid. Things like this happen in movies all the time. Say if there is a nude shot or sex scene in a film, it is usually a porn double with the actor's face imposed onto it. If there is singing, sometimes it is actually a professional singer dubbed over the real actresses singing. They could have given her some recognition for her dancing. It wouldn't have mattered. Natalie is an actress not a dancer so...?
The woman's problem was that the producers lead everyone to believe that Natalie was able to dance to the level of a professional ballerina after a year and a half of training. That, as most people with any sort of dance background will tell you, is massively disrespectful to not only dancers but the art of dance itself.
Yes I completely agree. I mean that it was silly not to give her credit for her dancing since this sort of thing happens so often in movies anyways. Why would we expect Natalie to dance like a professional? It is like believing that actors in action movies aren't actually using stunt doubles. It was wrong for the producers not to pass credit to where it was due.
@AStreetcarNamedDesire- I completely agree with you in how silly it was to not just be upfront about it. But that's the thing, and what will ultimately tarnish Natalie's Oscar forever. If she had just given Sarah the smallest of courtesies and acknowledged the professional ballerina during her Oscar acceptance speech, it would have extinguished this resulting controversy immediately. And this leads me to the part I find most egregious on Natalie's part: when she went out of her way to thank 'all of the people who usually never get thanked' in an Oscar speech, and yet left out the one person who made her Oscar a certainty...it just couldn't have become any more of an insult to injury otherwise. Thanking your makeup artist, your hair stylist, your lighting guy....and yet not even mentioning the one woman who made you a believable ballerina?? I hate to say it but that's forever tainted my perception of Natalie herself, just as a human being. It just could have, and should have, been handled so much better.
Coming from a dancer I knew she didn't do it. Like that's legitimately impossible. She deserves the oscar no doubt and the dance double signed a contract (idk what it was obviously) but that story of being able to dance like that with only a years training is unrealistic and was never even really convincing then again this is coming from a dancer, so that might be why I never found the one years training story very convincing.
Olivia Reilly as someone who has only been dancing a little over three years, I do think it is very much so possible for Natalie to reach a certain level of technique. The right amount of passion and the correct training can take you leaps and bounds in a matter of time. She was said to have trained over 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. I think a lot of the technique and skill demonstrated in the movie could have definitely been her. It is insulting to me, as a dancer, to read the comments saying she could never do that in a year when I have only been dancing for such little time and already surpass many people who have been dancing their whole lives.
Olivia Reilly and if the double does dance in the movie she deserves the praise she should get, but you shouldn't completely discredit someone based on the amount of time they've danced. I'm not saying anyone can be a dancer, but I am saying that if you truly are dedicated/passionate enough you can achieve a lot.
I'm not sure that the Oscar voters are trained dancers themselves. Getting carried away by the story, they could be influenced by the double's dancing because it helps to cement the titular character. If only the acting was important, they wouldn't have emphasized Natalie's training so extensively during the awards season. It's not just about acting. Actors have won awards for emulating boxers, musicians, etc. and after all the comments I'm reading, Natalie wasn't convincing as a ballerina even in the mid-profile shots so Sarah's dancing really saved her neck.
People getting mad at the girl for speaking up. Come on, really? She should get recognition for what she did! If you were in a movie as a stunt but then found out people were saying the actor did all the action, I am sure you would be upset to. Don't judge this girl for getting upset about it.
I'd understand her being upset if she had done 90-100 percent of the dancing in the film but she didn't. Natalie did majority of the dancing shown in the film. She took ballet lessons for a year, lost 20 pounds for the role and worked incredibly hard. Sarah literally only did around maybe 15 percent of the dancing in the film, the rest was all Natalie.
If she wasn't in the credits of the movie then that's deception... EVERYONE involved with creating any form of media should be acknowledged in some way - Even by having their name scrolling down alongside many others. I mean if a professional artist created an almost finished beautiful painting for an actor to "paint" on screen, but didn't get credit and it was advertised around saying that that actor learned to paint in a year... Then that would be pure BULLSHIT just to get publicity for the film. Movie studios should learn to respect all forms of art, because if they don't then in the future those professionals that are needed to make a movie great may not wish to be involved.
It's a totally fair valid point not about her personally but the respect for the art and how long and hard the work is to become a master. Agree with commentators that they had a good grasp of understanding on her main point. It is impossible to learn those skills she learned over 22 years in a year and a half. And some dance/ballet lovers will always care about this film! Even the struggle to break free of controlling or saboteur figures in life in order to pursue ones art which is often for many/most a thankless and poorly compensated and disrespected way of life. People value money, not so much art. If you're actually sacrificing time you could be making money/a "real" career in order to preserve and practice your art -horror! What are you DOING with your life? Bum! not to mention just the challenge of getting by usually with less. for an artist to overcome this artists struggle to reach a pinnacle, she's incredibly gracious and respectful of Portman AND herself & her art.
Pretty low political, self-serving move for the director to ask her NOT to capitalize on HER OWN SUCESS! Which she has every need and right to do. If you worked all your life to achieve something and what little recognition for it you DO get - y'all fault her for taking it? 😒 that's her prerogative. girls gotta eat! You'd do the same. Lying if you say otherwise.
Seems to me most people are not even watching this video. The dancer isn't whining she is just defending her art form by making it clear that allegations that Portman did 80% of the dancing aren't true, and that face shots aren't actual dancing. This was a big Oscar campaign, and she says Portman's acting itself was Oscar-worthy (though who cares? Oscars are so rigged, a bunch of friends voting for their friends..) without needing to claim that Natalie is some sort of genius that can become a great ballet dancer in a year. We have a serious problem putting celebrities on a pedestal or even defending them at all cost when something negative is said about them, as if they were Gods or even truly good people and not the shallow and egocentric individuals most of them actually are
But, at what point was Natalie Portman ever egocentric during this process. She deserved that Oscar. Even with the body double, she was required to undergo a physical transformation that not only allowed her to physically "look the part," but also have the arm placement and leg turnout that her character would have as a member of a professional dance company.
She did do 80 percent of the dancing seen in the film, so you're the one being ignorant I believe there were in total 35 frames of dancing and Natalie was in 28 of them. She took professional ballet lessons for over a year and lost 20 pounds for the role. It's gross how some of you want to give some special credit to the ballerina (WHO KNEW THAT HER JOB WAS JUST THAT, A BODY DOUBLE) while also discrediting the hard work Natalie put into her role. You never see stunt or body doubles being this damn entitled.
I danced for many years and when I went to see the movie I was under the impression because of Natalie's background she had done the dancing. After seeing these interviews, it is evident that Natalie didn't. One of the interviews, the film editor said that of the 35 full body dancing shots, only 12 were Natalie. That is 1/3! It was a great movie nevertheless but Natalie and the film's producers shouldn't have marketed and led the audience to think that it was all or most of Natalie when it wasn't. I believe she won the Oscar because they thought she had taken it upon herself to do the "extra" training to do all the scenes herself. Very misleading!
Nancy Guzman I think the problem is when actors use stunt doubles but then say they did their own stunts. I believe in this case the studio or producers perhaps wanted keep that facade to win awards.
diva1675 sometimes actors will do bits and pieces of their own stunt work and the stunt double will do the rest so while not always fully true that they do their own stunts it can be a combo of both. Source: I double for a few actresses regularly.
As a ballet dancer who has danced for years I have to stand by Sarah Lane. Ballet isn't something that you can just jump into and master right away, it takes years and years of practice to perfect. I don't disagree that Natalie did a good job with her performance but she is an actress which is something totally different from being a professional ballet dancer. I just feel like Sarah deserved more credit than what they gave her for the work that she did in the movie.
All major productions use doubles. The agreement was clear and the ballet dancer was well compensated. I watched this film with the assumption that a double was used, and I was no less impressed by Natalie Portman. Furthermore it is a movie and not a stage performance - the importance of Natalie's acting is far greater than the importance of the dancing abilities. The movie is about the phsycological torment, female competition and complexity the performance brings, not the technique itself. That's also the challenge of the main character and what creates the storyline. Natalie would have won the Oscar anyway - and to be frank, I understand why the producers responded negatively to the dancer's Cosmo interviews. She was by no means entitled to go against the production team, involve the press and pursue some fame path of her own. I understand her reaction after the film and Natalie received so much attention, but it is still unprofessional. I think most people understand the discipline and hard work it takes to become a dancer. It also takes great talent to be a great actress. Successful actresses receives more public attention, but Sarah did choose her profession knowing what the rewards (or lack thereof) were.
because she finds it insulting to her and to the art that someone could do what a prima ballerina can do in a year and a half? If i was Sarah, i would speak up too.
Just to make a point about how horrible this situation is, this isn't the first time that a professional ballet dancer hasn't gotten enough credit for doing a majority of dance scenes for a dance-themed movie. Marine Jahan, a professional ballerina, did many of the contemporary/ballet dancing as Alex Owens (played by Jennifer Beals) in the classic 1983 film "Flashdance." Marine's role as Jennifer's dance double was kept hidden from the press, and according to fillmmakers, they did it because they "didn't want to ruin the illusion." I say that excuse is BS. Although Jennifer Beals did an amazing job with her acting in "Flashdance," Marine shouldn't have had to keep it a secret that she did a majority of the dancing in the movie. It just sounds completely unfair, and it saddens me that this has happened again in "Black Swan." Did we not learn anything about how to give the art of dancing any respect?
I read that professional ballet dancers make somewhere around 30-35k a year. Why do they get paid so little? They train their whole lives, push their bodies to the brink of limitation, and have to be perfect and elegant while performing in front of n audience. You would think they would at least make 100k. I know people will say they are doing what they love but, damn, that's no money at all. You might as well work a office job and make like 50k or something. I would be pissed if I was a ballerina and people like Kim K makes millions while doing absolutely nothing!
+Victoria Provost You're absolutely right! The way my mindset is, if it doesn't make enough money to support yourself after a ballet career then it's pretty much a waste of time. I look at the long term for everything I do in life. I started to get into bodybuilding but even the top guy, who wins many competitions, don't make much at all; and that's while competing, how are you going to make a living afterwards when you can't compete is the point I'm trying to make. You figure you bust your ass everyday for years you would want to be set financially afterwards. So, me personally, I would want to always do something that's in a big demand. Same with college, I have so many friends with high-end degrees and can't find work or stuck doing something for low pay just to make a buck. It all just seems like wasted years for nothing! I want to see dancers, not strippers lol, make more money than what they make because I enjoy ballet; The beauty, classyness, creativity, elegance, and aesthetics that it offers.
I think Natalie was great and did deserve the Oscar for her role, but a false idea shouldn't have been created about the amount of dancing Natalie did do. Either way, sad that the movie and Natalie won an oscar with a cloud of deception/controversy. That Oscar win will always be tainted because of the conversations it brings up, just my opinion.
the entire movie is about the fact that just technical dancing isn't enough, you have too feel it, show it through your eyes. Natalie was the one doing that. No one thinks she was that ballerina 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean she wasn't able to learn a few difficult moves either.
Sara is not wrong to speak out. Imagine how you would feel if it were you who doing the dancing but some else taking all the credit. Movie makers are not wrong to keep silence either. They definitely don't want to take any glory away from a potential Oscar candidate. Working as a ‘double’ is deemed to live as someone but not yourself. I just hope that the movie industry could give more credit to double actors. If the movie crew is so confident that a good actor/actress will shine through no matter having a double or not, then why not at least introduce the double actor a little bit, especially when they play a very important role in the movie. I wonder how the Oscar would end up if we were informed that despite all Natalie’s efforts it is Sara who did most of the dancing. Will Natalie still win the prize? Now I will never know.
This was an allstar cast... what they did was for money reasons. If they had billed her as a dance double etc they wouldve had to pay her a different salary and since you cannot know until the movie comes out if its going to be a flop or hit , the majority of your money has to go to securing big priced stars. She signed a contract, she shouldve looked it over better or taken it to a lawyer etc if she didnt feel capable of knowing what she was doing. The oscar is awarded to actors, she was awarded it for her acting, not the dancing per say....Anyone with half a brain knows she didnt do more than half of the dancing... There was no reason to speak out like she had been wronged in some way....The film says a double was used for some of the dancing....
Of course she would have still won lol? And besides, majority of the dance scenes seen in the movie are done by Natalie, so there. The dancer hardly played an important role, not any more important then stunt actors and they never come out looking for attention like this and they work just as hard.
@@saemunduremilsson8106 the majority of those scenes they're counting are of Natalie's chest and higher shots.. Natalie's one of my favorite actresses and she deserved this Oscar. It's just odd that the decision was made to minimize the dancing in a movie about Black Swan.
Anyone that thinks you can learn how to dance ballet like that in a few months or a year and a half is completely crazy ! It takes a lifetime to do what Sarah did and the art of ballet will live on forever
I took ballet for more than half of my life and I totally understand how hard it is for ballerinas to get where they are. The director really should have put most of the credit towards the ACTUAL dancer rather than an actor who trained for a mere one and a half years.
Natalie deserved the award because it was an award for her ACTING. She was phenomenal in that film. The producers, the directorial staff, etc set Natalie up for some scrutiny because they did not disclose the use of Sarah Lane as explicit as they should of. I truly believe that Natalie would’ve gotten the Oscar even if Sarah‘s involvement would’ve been publicized, but now we’ll never know.
It should have been clearly disclosed to her that her part will not be hugely mentioned anywhere. Seems like it wasn't talked about by them when they started filming. But I understand her that it's quite uncomfortable for people to assume or think that Natalie or anyone who gets a full credit that what they did was only done by them.
Ballet takes years of intense training, no one could perform those moves with only a years worth of training, Natalie did a great job acting and the dance double did an amazing job dancing
I mean she's an actress not a dancer so obviously she isn't gonna be this amazing ballet dancer that they could just rely on, so they had to get a real ballet dancer which even before they confirmed that it wasn't Natalie dancing, it's just common sense that Natalie doesn't have time and day to practice ballet so it could of never been her.
Because Hollywood wants you to believe that Natalie did 80% of the dancing. She didn't. Had voters known that Natalie may not have won the Oscar. Hollywood wants you to believe that Natalie achieved something that really cannot be done.
And that's why you read the fine print... on a side note, I do understand her frustration about the whole "ballerina in a year" fiasco. Sara probably wanted to inform the general public that something that takes years to accomplish can't be done in such little time. It was a big slap in the face not just for her but other ballerinas who worked hard hours on end for the dance. The consequence of speaking out was attention. Well... Sara didn't get credit for Natalie's acting, so Natalie shouldn't get credit for Sara's dancing. And everyone who says "oh well, suck it up whiny b*" should know that if the same happened to you, you would do the same and worse... and yeah, your same crowd will tell you to stfu as well because "no one cares you did all the hard work".
so sad that hollwood does this to the people ..she dhould have gotten recognized for what she did in the movie natalie is and amazing actresse and he def deserve the Oscar for her acting performance.. she is obviously not a ballerina the dance had nothing to do with that in my opinion
but she got credited to be a stunt double?? Like you could say the dance scenes are "stunts" in a movie setting so its not like they didnt give her ANY credit??
Coming from a dancer, she still executed the moves during the close-ups. It is not a dance recital, they will not have constant full body shots. It's a movie.
as much as I love Natalie Portman and think she is a truely gifted actress, this is still a scandal! However Natalie didn't claim to be able to do this after only 1,5 years. In fact she said in many interviews, that she had been doing ballet for over nine years, but started working harder on her skills and with professionals like Mary Helen Bowers as soon as she knew she was cast for the movie. So she didn't make it sound super easy to do ballet! After all, her husband is a professional ballet dancer, so she must know how hard it really is. It's still a shame, that they didn't give the real dancer enough credit, but I think that was probably a move from the production company to push the film and Natalie's performance. The sad thing is, that now we will never know, whether she would've gotton the oscar, if people knew about it.
CarAccident stunt doubles have been used for years!!! this one movie of a danceing cavity twilrling, cant jutify one stunt double rights lol. thats what ur paid to do. she just wants the fame.......
I don't respect this person for whining about the lack of credit she thinks she got. Stunt doubles and other professionals do work without receiving personal acclaim. She got to participate in a film. She got paid, she got credits. Now be professional and shut up
Black Swan was great and Natalie Portman was superb in the film, however this Sarah Lane is very attractive and a fantastic dancer, certainly deserves more credit, though not an Oscar as that is for acting! Maybe this girl will get a chance in the movies she certainly has the face and the moves.
to the people saying that Sarah Lane is being rude and having a bad attitude - unless you're a ballet dancer you GREATLY underestimate the amount of dancing that this Sarah did compared to the amount that Natalie Portman actually did. They were trying to create the facade that Natalie had all of a sudden become this incredible trained professional ballerina while Sarah had trained days after days for years after years after years after years after years. The director claims that "80% of the dancing shots are natalie Portman" and unless you think shots of a persons face are dancing, natalie did very, very, very, very small amounts of the actual dancing. The problem is that people greatly underestimate the difficulty of the ballet done in this movie and believe that it is Natalie who did all the dancing because that's the way that they purposefully marketed the film.
It takes years of training to be a professional ballerina. And to get on point? Took me 11 years. Point is very hard, you can't learn all of that in a year and a half.
I actually got en pointe in a little over a year. It all depends on how hard you push yourself and how quickly you build technique and strength. It's different for everyone.
not from when you first started dancing ballet. doesn't Georgia anne mean that she began dancing at like 3 or something and then 11 years of dancing she was ready for pointe? you can't start as a non dancer at 10 years old having zero ballet or anyother ddance experience and then study ballet for a year and then get en pointe after a year.
The movies target audience is dancers and dance enthusiasts. Anyone who cares about ballet that much would immediately know that Natalie DIDNT DO THE DANCING! The Black Swan is a part reserved for only the most senior or very talented professional ballerina. Even a Corps de Ballet dancer wouldnt do it and they have trained for upwards of 10years. By pretending that Natalie did dance they are seriously underestimating their audience intelligence.
what the fuck is wrong with everybody. it's a movie! she didn't get an Oscar for her dancing, and I was wayyyyy more impressed by the acting than the dancing in this movie. it's the producers and the directors and the actors goal is convince the audience something is real when it's not.
Natalie definitely deserved the Oscar, because as Sarah said, Oscars are for ACTING. Sarah found it disrespectful to ballerinas everywhere that so many people ACTUALLY believed someone could become a prima ballerina in only a year and a half, when in reality, it could take a decade or more of nearly constant training. She didn't care that she herself wasn't properly credited, she just wanted people to know that, no, it takes more than just a year and a half to become THAT good.
But why? Who was she trying to convince? Non-dancers? There was NO reason for her to come out and speak. Who did she help? Who was getting HURT by this? No one. Who did it try to hurt? We all know that one. What harm would it have caused if she didn't speak out? She's not a whistle-blower, defending people who are getting hurt by the actions of a bad corporation. I assure you, NO ONE who watched the movie cared if she danced the entire thing. There was no reason for her to come and pretty much 'tattle' except for the attention. She HELPED no one and could have potentially HURT someone.
Lisa Marghella I don’t think she was doing it for attention. If you actually paid attention to what she said instead of babbling off with ignorance you would understand that she was just making a point. She obviously wasn’t tattling, just stating facts and wanting credit. You on the other hand definitely want attention. 🙄
@@lisamarghella8002 Even if she did it for attention she deserves it. People shouldnt praise a skinny actress that already had a ballerina type body, for dances that she herself didnt do. Of course we should credit the stunt doubles and dancers, and instrument players that make the scene believable.
before she starts whining about getting credit she should think about thousands of other stunt men out there who work passionately for their support roles as well but they don't bitch about it online
@@pb25789 I agree she was whining, but u callin it a bitchy move jus cuz other stuntsmen suffer in silence cuz of their uncredited scene, is dumb.
The fact Natalie Portman didn't dance in some scenes doesn't affect her Oscar nomination and winning. The last time I checked, she won the Oscar in Best Actress category, not for Best Dancer.
that's the truth
Well darling THATS NO WHAT WE THINK WHO KNOW WHAT REALY TAKES TOBE A PRIMA BALLERINA A PROFESIONAL DANCER
Without those dance performances, it would have been a different movie. The dance performances made the movie, which was about a ballerina that became mentally ill, not an actor who became mentally ill. No Oscar was deserved.
Lee Steal The dance performances didnt make the movie, if u thought that u didn’t understand why this movie was made.
@@mattchu_chow9087 The movie was clearly about a dancer who had a breakdown. That means that dancing would no doubt be an integral part of the movie.v
For anyone who genuinely thought that Natalie did ALL the dancing, seriously? Becoming a ballerina takes years and years of training, there is absolutely no way she could have learnt to do all of that in such a short space of time. It is rather obvious that a dance double was used...
It doesn't look very difficult to me. I'd have much more trouble learning figure skating in a year and a half.
Boom Chicka It's doesn't look hard, but don't let that fool you because it's actually really hard to do. I'm not sure why you put figure skating in comparison because that and ballet are completely two different things.
Boom Chicka You're joking right? It takes years of training to be able to perform with grace and beauty and not making it look like every inch of our leg and feet are in hell. Everyone thinks that ballet is easy but it takes so much effort and most of the time you think you're doing it right but in reality you have those little errors that professional dancers and directors could see, which is an automatic decrease. The point of ballet is to make it look like it's easy but you don't know that dancers cry backstage because of pain on their toes, feet and legs. Not even a year can make you as good as you should be, maximum of 8-12 hours of training EVERY DAY. Sometimes 3-4 hours on ballet shoes and then 8 hours of pointe shoes which is grueling as fuck. So your comment is insulting because it takes everything to be a professional ballerina
Boom Chicka Of course it doesn't look difficult to you because Portman's arm waving you saw in Black Swan was at most only 1/1000th of what a real ballerina has to perform as Odette/Odile in an actual production of Swan Lake. Watch Svetlana Zakharova's entrance and pas de deux as Odile with the Bolshoi Ballet. Then re-watch Portman's Odile near the end of the movie. Portman completely lacks the subtle nuances, extension and artistry required to be a convincing ballerina and laughably looks stiff as a board throughout the movie. So a year and half is definitely not enough, not even for the little she had to do in the film.
Yeah, it's obvious there was a double for her role, that's why they only shot her close-up. The other full body scenes were never her.
Obviously she had a double it takes so many years to even just get on pointe and have proper technique
Tell that to the producers who omitted her role from the film credits
Yeah, I got on pointe when I was 12 and I am 15 now
I'm not sure it's possible if you start late. I didn't start taking ballet until I was 19. I was NEVER able to dance sur la pointe. My back and core were strong, and my legs were good. But my ankles never got strong enough to do anything on one leg sur la pointe. I took seven classes a week because I loved it so much.
Natalie did take ballet as a child,but yes this girl did a lot of the dancing,BUT Academy Awards are for acting,not dancing and the scenes where Natalie isn't dancing are all HER.
+Hartleyfan2 They're not denying that Portman deserved the Oscar, they complain about the way she and the production acted like she had made 80% of the dancing parts, when, in fact, she only did the port de bras parts and faces. And in which case, we could even discuss if those were actin or dancing parts.
The Oscar was obviously well given to her.
I never said Natalie was a professional ballerina,she took LESSONS as a kid and for the role in the film,but for people to suggest Natalie didn't deserve an Oscar for ACTING because she didn't do 100% of dancing in a film is nuts.Yes this girl deserves props and respect for her dancing,but Oscars are not for dancing and the scenes that don't include dancing that is 100% Natalie.
^^ Yes,but Oscars aren't given for best dancer in a film,Natalie won based on her acting.
NO ONE is saying Portman didn't deserve the Oscar. Did you even LISTEN? The point is that ballet cannot be learned in a year and a half.
@@nateriver8223 Portman did a great job of "spotting" the spins. She clearly had studied some because most people have no idea how important spotting is, much less how to do it. Her port de bras were good, and she WALKED like a dancer. I give her a great deal of credit for doing even those things very well. But no one who hasn't studied dance for years can dance as Nina does in this film. It is simply wrong to imply that anyone can do that with only 18 months' study.
"i didn't do the film for fame or anything" then... why are you doing this...
Because she wants that check
I'd want the check too
Because is still not fair!!! She work really hard!! She deserves to have her recognition!! The movie has bigger than it was supposed to be!! Is time for people to stop putting celebrities on a pedestal
Desirée Rodríguez so... they told her before the film "you won't get recognition for this". she says "ok, not here for the fame". after the film gets out: "hey, but here i am!! i did the dancing!!!"
SparkzMxzXZ seriously doubt it went that way!!!!... and that still doesnt make it ok... Im not saying portman did not deserved her oscar!! because I saw plenty of scenes about her characters schizophrenia... but a lot of dancing... and she is right!! close ups of her face DO NOT COUNT AS DANCING!!... still doesnt make it ok, i see people insulting her like she has to take it... AND SHE DOESNT... is time for people to realize that celebrities dont make movies alone!!
Wow Natalie Portman isn't a professional ballet dancer?! What, next you're gonna tell me she isn't the Queen of Naboo too??
Funny thing, the director didn't want you to know she couldn't do the things people were giving her credit for. Really though hardly a fair comparison, see ballerinas are real, and it is degrading to them to allow people to believe a person can master a craft like that in a year. Frankly I assumed she HAD done quite a bit of it, not all but a lot, and she clearly didn't do much of any of the complex dancing, well frankly none of the complex dance sequences. I have never studied Ballet, most people haven't.
Lol
🤣🤣
But they say they she hadn't gotten the Oscar when they know it
SHE ISNT?!
She didn't want credit for herself. She wanted credit for her CRAFT! Natalie Portman's acting was honest work. But the producers must not have felt that her acting was enough to secure the Oscar. They wanted the world to believe that she learned professional ballet technique in a year's time. THAT was dishonest. It's not about who did it, it's about respecting professional ballet dancers and the fact that they spend their LIVES perfecting their craft and it's an insult to insinuate that it's that easy. I like Natalie Portman's work. Even as a child she was an awesome actress. She shouldn't need to lie to get an Oscar.
But she took ballet lessons for a year and a half? She dedicated her life to that movie role for a year and a half? Yeah obviously she did not become a professional ballerina in a year's time but she did obviously learn professional ballet techniques under professional ballet dancers. Why should she not get credited for that hard work? Why is it that we never see stunt doubles cry about getting credit the way this ballerina did?
@@saemunduremilsson8106 yes, she needed 2 years to do the simple thing what 6 y.o. kids can handle. And it is absolutely ok to tell and give her credit for that because in 30’s you usually are not able to learn the basic positions and tenderness. But don’t say, she handled professional ballet.
Natalie totally deserved the oscar whether she did all the moves or not, but that ballerina deserves waaaaay more recognition for what she did and it was right that she stood up for her art.
She did get credit though
She was a double. End of story. When do we ever see stunt doubles demand credit the way this ballerina does?
I’m with you. It’s an issue of respect for another art form.
@@saemunduremilsson8106 it’s more of that the movie directors tried to frame it that Natalie Portman mastered ballet in 1.5 years, and that is pretty offensive and insensitive to the professional ballerinas out there. As Sarah said, she didn’t do it to become famous, only so that people know that it is impossible to dance the swan lake variation with 1.5 years of ballet training
@@saemunduremilsson8106 yea dumbfuck what he said ^
natalie did all the arm flapping and lane did the footwork. duh. why would anyone think that a non dancer could do that? it's impossible
Callie Jet Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I did research after I watched the movie for the first time to see if Natalie did actually dance on pointe. Honestly I couldn't tell, as someone who's never taken ballet. Her acting was amazing, but when I thought she did ALL of the dancing too my jaw dropped.
@@pinkfairy1557 She did Ballet as a child but never got to point so the double did those harder moves
Trust me, there're people who think vibing to the music equals dancing and thus anyone can do it, cause *they* can. met them personally )).. It's sad how some professionals rush to degrade other professionals based on personal ignorance in someone else's field of expertise..
Oh, come on. First of all, I think it's obvious that no one can become a ballerina in a year and a half and Natalie herself said that they have muscles she doesn't even begin to imagine for YEARS AND YEARS of doing the job.
Second, they never denied that Natalie had a double, why would they? Iit's FREAKING OBVIOUS that no one can become a prima ballerina in a year and a half unless you are a magic unicorn or something.
Third, I've never actually found a statement by anyone in the movie (not counting this lady) that says Natalie did everything by herself. Yeah, Mila says she deserves all the credict she gets because she busted her ass doing this role, ballet dancing? It's gruelling I've been doing it as my hobby for 14 years and I'm 25% as good as the least talented ballerina in a company. Trying to get as close to them as you can in a year and a half? It's murder. That's why she deserves the credict, because she trained, she worked hard and she gave her everything to do it as good as she could within her capabilities.
And last, ok, the REAL Black Swan? You don't want to stir up anything but you go to a magazine and let them use that headline? I've seen her dancing, and it's jawdropping, she is freaking brilliant at it, no one is taking that away from her. But in this case Natalie IS the Black Swan,why? Because Odile and Odette in this film are portrayed as different personality traits of the same person, coincidentally they happen to be a part of a ballet. Like the dancers who say Black Swan is not a reallistic protrayal of a dancer's life... WE KNOW. This isn't a story about ballet, it's a story about obsession, compulsion, light, darkness and madness told THROUGH ballet. Did Natalie deserve her Oscar because she happened to dance really well in this film? Nope. Did she deserve it for an absolutelly jawdropping portrayal of a psychotic obsesive-compulsive woman in a very very very demanding possition? YES.
Now ask yourselves, what was Portman playing? A dancer? Or a troubled woman who HAPPENED to be a dancer?
Yes, honey.Yes! It's crazy how people doesn't seem to get that. If your last impression after seeing Black Swan is Natalie Portman dancing skill, you're sort of missing the point.
+Savatey Heang and +I can survive Med School
I think the point is that the powers that be tried to sweep Sarah under the rug to increase Natalie's chances of winning an Oscar. We will never know if it was necessary or not.
Without Sarah's brilliant work, there would've been no movie. But hey, that's Hollywood. A lot of smoke and mirrors. There was one full-body scene where they did use Natalie standing at the barre. Standing en pointe with sickled feet was the dead give away to anyone with a trained eye that her abilities were limited.
I loved Natalie's portrayal of the character and especially the scenes with Barbara Hershey. And while I can hugely appreciate the effort and training Natalie undoubtedly went through, even her dancing closeups were not believable to anyone who understands ballet and how it's supposed to look.
Professional ballerinas are exquisite freaks of nature. It is iMPOSSIBLE for a 28 yr old to acquire even half of what Sarah did.
I applaud Sarah Lane for having the courage to set the record straight. She deserved a thank you. That is all.
Thank you!
Sarah deserved nothing tbh. Without her, there would be movie with a different double. One that hopefully wouldn't have gone to a magazine, let them publish an article called THE REAL BLACK SWAN and then claim she did not do it for recognition.
I can survive Med School marvellous answer. Fab
Anybody with common sense knew that there was definitely a double dancing NOBODY perfects ballet in a year or even a few years.
That's not common sense. The public didn't know how long Natalie trained.
Alani Lagoa yes it takes years years and years
Mike Killagreen well I think it’s safe to assume Natalie didn’t train 16 years for the movie.
@Clarissa Leung Seriously though! Do people think Natalie came out of the womb training for Black Swan?
I didn't know because I didn't even think the dancing was good
Why so many dislikes? The rumor spread fast that Natalie Portman "learned ballet in a year" or "in 6 months" and she wanted to defend that. It's not like she was trying to get Portman to lose out on an Oscar, she just wanted to defend ballet. Oscars are for acting and Portman nailed that part.
She took ballet lessons for over a year, for 5 hours a day. So yeah, she did learn ballet in a year. Obviously not to the point of becoming a professional ballerina but she deserves credit for her dancing too.
that doesn't mean she didn't dance some of it, and still Natalei got the oscar for her acting
Bijan Love exactly! And she deserves it. She really did an amazing performance I can’t imagine anyone else pulling it off as well as she did
you don't know that. You just assume. In fact everything affects to the people who vote.
katie Logan you are absolutely correct, and I agree with you 100%. Her acting wasn't that spectacular.Without another skill (like dancing, singing, etc) she would never have won the other nominees, those were good mature a-list stars. It was defenitely a scam and her Oscar win is one of the most shameful wins ever.
Bijan Love That's true!
The questions is, if the Academy would have known she didn't do all the dancing would she still have won the Oscar?
she's speaking out because they made this facade that natalie did most of the
dancing with just one year of training. this means natalie's performance was judged not only on her acting (which was great), but also the ballet. so comparing this to actors who use stunt doubles is not the same. if this wasn't true, there would be no reason why producers asked her to stop giving interviews until the oscars were over. her giving this interview does not automatically mean she wants fame - she just wants it to be known that you cannot master ballet in a year. it's an insult to the dancers who work/have worked long and hard for their profession. anyway, i think the film is brilliant. natalie and sarah both did great, and the oscar was deserved regardless.
alex erskine YESSSS AGREED
Alex M this is also what I took from the interview
She did 28 out of 32 of her dances herself. The other actress did full body shots and point work
They asked her to stop because she was trying to pull the attention towards her with this kind of shitshows, even after agreeing the credit would be limited. I mean, she even danced the part in front of the journalists to prove it was her. Okay, good job. The movie was not about you though.
As for the movie, and the dance scenes that are showed, Natalie did 90 percent of the dancing. The director of the movie literally had an editor go over each frame of natalie dancing and concluded that she did 90 percent of the dancing that was shown in the end result. And ballerinas do not risk their lives like stunt doubles do, they literally break bones and injure themselves being stunt doubles yet you don't see them crying and over not getting all of the credit? She did this purely because she wanted attention and was probably a bit jealous. The made no 'facade' out of natalie's dancing when she DID do the majority of the dancing that was shown in the movie. And she also did work hard for a year and a half training ballet so she does deserve recognition for that as well. She acted and danced phenominally.
Natalie 100% deserved the Oscar for her incredible acting! But the whole point is that Sarah deserves more credit for the dancing because you can’t just become that talented in a sport in just a year and a half!
sarah does deserve credit, she deserves her work and years of experience to be acknowledged.
"I did my work and I’m in the majority of the film. I did have a dance double for the most difficult sequences. It was just unfortunate, the entire situation. She’s a wonderful dancer and hopefully people will get to see her in her company. I’m sorry that she felt unacknowledged." -Natalie on Sarah Lane
I don't see why she is getting so much hate. It is true that they tried to hint that Natalie Portman was able to become a ballerina after a short time. If the dancer's incentive really is to give ballet justice, then i think she is completely right to speak up. Ballet dancers need so much discipline to get to where they are and start super young, and for someone to say "Hey, we were able to get this almost 30 years old actress to do something close to what you do in less than two years", I'd guess they'd feel a little cheapened. (Benjamin millepied even said Natalie danced better than a lot of ballerinas he knew). On another note, I loved that movie and I think it probably helped to make ballet a little bit more popular than it was.
Mengmeng Di Not to mention, if people get the idea that THEY could do that kind of dancing in a year and a half....jeez, ballet's dangerous. It's so demanding on your body that you absolutely need the 10-20 years to build up ankle, foot, muscle strength, all of that. Some fool's going to get injured.
@@marszenka Truth. ❗
@@marszenka excellent point! I did competitive dance including Pointe for years up until grade 12 and my body is soooo screwed up from it!
And I stopped after 18 years old
And that was with years and years of training!
And we all knew it's bad lol I remember my first golden star for the first toenail you lost ... we had a chart 😂
I don't believe that Lane was "whining" that she wasn't getting the same amount of praise as Portman or about getting credit at all. It would have been one thing if Lane agreed to do this interview while being credited as a "Dance Double" and if they were honest about it. But Lane was not credited as a dance double (and she even said that Portman deserved her Oscar) and it's obvious that's not where Lane's grief is, it's with the producers claiming that it only took Portman a year to become a professional ballerina when, in reality, it takes several years for that to happen. Imagine if there was a guy who claimed to have become a doctor in a week, would you believe him? No. Would you get mad at real doctors getting mad at that guy for lying? No. I know for a fact that the hard core "Black Swan" fans and the hardcore Natalie Portman fans are just going to dismiss any legitimate arguments and tell those who side with Lane instead of the producers to shut up, but that's proof of this
Quote by Jess Cagle "Most movie goers (and I put myself in this category) don't know very much about the ballet world".
Michaela Bauer i love natalie portman in this movie and black swan is overall one of my faves but i agree on her point. the fact is that the producers are belittling ballet performers making it seem that you can learn it in such a short span of time.
totally agree.. natalie's performance was amazing, but the whole time i thought she had all that skill in such a short time, it's not so much getting fame, but more so credit for the ballet world.
Lol imagine comparing ballerinas to doctors smh. And they probably meant professional as in she took lessons for 5 hours a day for a little over a year. That's dedication right there. And she did 90 percent of the dancing in the final product. You don't see stunt doubles whine about not getting credit do you? and they literally break bones and get injured and potentially risk their lives. That's because people with common sense know that almost all actors have a body double for things that the actor isn't equipped for. Hell, I know of a guy that acted as a body double for Christian Bale while shooting The Dark Knight. He never got any recognition. The fact of the matter is that Natalie's acting was amazing and her ballet technique was amazing for someone that only took lessons for a year while also losing 20 pounds and preparing for such a difficult role. She worked hard for that oscar and deserved it. Why would ballerinas deserve some special attention and recognition when stunt doubles don't?
@@saemunduremilsson8106 she absolutely did not do 90% of the dancing, that's the dancer's whole point. There's a huge misconception on what it takes to be a professional dancer and production greatly exaggerated Portman's skill to the general public. You cannot learn to dance like that with that level of skill in a year and a half. By lying that Portman did it discredits the amount of work every professional dancer has done for many, many years to get to that level. The vast majority of professional dancers start before they're five years old. Give credit where credit is due.
Why is this on my feed? Why does CZcams think I care about this 5 year old movie controversy lol
Yeezus this is what I was thinking lol
Yeezus ikr
Exactly
And again you're not the only person who watch CZcams.
David Savage I think the same. I keep getting these suggestions I don't care about.
I believe that the doubles and stuntmen should get more praise. I believe this girl.
I've heard it suggest elsewhere that there should be an Oscar given for stunt work.
Finally! Someone who sees the truth for what it is…almost every comment is shitting on the real ballerina
Anyone who's danced professionally or competitively like myself knows right off the bat it wasn't Natalie dancing... not discrediting her acting of course but unless Natalie danced competitively when she was young, there's no way that could've been her. It's just logical. I completely understand the ballerina, I hate when people belittle the art of ballet.
Jessica Bolusi you can train as a dancer without being a competition kid
+Mairead Moore you can train but you will never be in only 1 year as good as the professional one.
Jessica Bolusi totally but she was very very ignorant for letting it happen. she knows better now I'm sure
I heard Natalie trained as a ballerina for 9 years as a child so...
And I quote " No I didn't do the movie to get credit or fame." The film makers said a double was used. Where is the crime here? It seems to me someone was starting to get jealous and needed some attention.
They elaborated on it at the end. It's more the fact that Natalie was praised as having learned those moves in a year and a half which, to a professional ballerina, could be insulting. It's just sort of a derogatory statement to something that takes years upon years to perfect, especially to someone who does it professionally and knows that.
***** Well Put
I don't know if you know this Jim but believe it or not.... all actors are lying (OMG!). The people you see in movies... are not really those people.
all the people hating on this girl have no idea how hard it is to be a professional dancer. if she was doing all this for fame she would have gotten a lawyer and a better contract to get credit from the start. she only started speaking out when people wrongfully assumed natalie had learned most of the dancing herself and didn't want the artform dilluted into an easily learned skill anyone could acquire if you 'just worked hard enough'.
No one cares how hard it is to be a ballerina; frankly, the movie isn’t about ballet. She saw this as her “moment.”
Natalie does deserve credit for her dancing. No, of course she is not on the same level as a ballet dancer that has done it for years and years, but for her only taking lessons for a year she did damn well and deserves credit for that as she did about 90 percent of the dances in the movie. She worked hard for that role. You want to talk about how hard it is to be a professional dancer? You think it is not hard work to be an actor? She took lessons for a year and lost 20 pounds for that role. Christian Bale starved himself for his role in the machinist then bulked up again for batman. And what about stunt doubles? Why do they not cry about their credit when we know most if not all actions scenes in all movies are stunt doubles?
Everyone deserves credit for any work done.
Epiphanie Always i agree & that's her issue. Not that Natalie didn't deserve the award but for the misinformation or the perception that Natalie did ALL her own dancing. I liked the film and didn't for one moment think it was all Natalie dancing. That skill takes yearrrrss to learn. I'm not naive lol
Obviously she deserved the oscar because her acting was incredible, but to base the oscar on her ballet transformation is where the issue is. And the fact that the producers pretended that she had done all of the dancing is very deceptive.
"Anybody with common sense knew that there was definitely a double dancing NOBODY perfects ballet in a year or even a few years." - Alani Lagoa (I copied and pasted her CZcams comment).
Look, if people are dumb enough to think Natalie danced all of it, it's not her fault or the producers fault.
Team Xtreme well Natalie shouldn't have taken the credit for it. It's not fair they kept the dancer hush hushed. Nobody with a brain believed that was Natalie in the actual dancing. That's true. To say Natalie did "all the dancing" in a years time is a slap in the face to all the ballerinas who dedicate years and their entire life to the art, sports, and wear & tear. I think Natalie should've been more honest and spoke out about the fact her double did the dancing. Close ups aren't real dancing like the ballet said. I can move my arms but to do all the spins ugh 😑 I knew that movie was overrated
Rachel Lorie Show me where Natalie explicitly said that she did all the dancing. Plus, I'm sure her career would've been actively hurt had she went against the director's commands.
Besides, it was not hidden. There are magazines/articles talking about Sarah that were published in the same year the movie was released.
@@rachellorie3332 How is it not fair when stunt doubles are kept 'hush hushed' ? They are body doubles and get paid for that. And she did take ballet lessons for a year and she did do majority of the dancing seen in the film. You think actors don't go through a lot for their role? You think Natalie didn't sweat and bleed in her ballet lessons? Never have I seen any stunt double come out with this kind of nonsense.
@@saemunduremilsson8106 there are all kinds of stunts and all kinds of body doubles.
Some people get killed doing dangerous stunt work.
Sometimes a "body double" is just a shot of someone else's butt.
Ballet dancing is insanely difficult and demanding. It should have been in the contact of the ballerina that she would be acknowledged.
And yes, many people definitely believed Natalie did all the dancing..people who have no clue about the world of ballet.
Sound editing gets acknowledged. Mixing gets acknowledged. Lighting..etc, etc.
Someone who worked decades to master her craft should be acknowledged too.
She talks as if the dancing itself was the reason why the movie became famous. Common, we all know that the movie was a hit because the acting was amazing, the story was creepy and the script was genius. Jesus. Besides, what about fricking superhero movies? Nobody complains when they use stunt doubles. And they obviously do. This interview is just bullshit.
she never implies dancing was why the movie did well. i'm sure if everyone hated the movie she would still feel the same that everyone is crediting someone else for work it took you 22 years to accomplish. that and it is fucked up to never be thanked or recognized when something you were a part of is winning mad awards.
No she doesn't so re watch the video and pay attention this time. Why are you purposely taking her words out of context? Is English NOT your first language or what?
in super hero movies it is obvious that they used stunt double
but in black swan even the director lied about it
and i do personally think the dancing is an important part in natalie's performance
i do think the dancing makes natalie's performance wayyyyy more impressive
and sarah deserves more credit
It's not about whether or not Natalie did a great job. Sara even said she deserved that Oscar and anybody her obviously agrees that she's a tremendous actress. But this is about giving credit where credit is due. Not only did the director blatantly lie about how much of the dancing was Natalie Portman he also specifically told the dancer not to talk about it. Portman did an amazing job as an actress, and she can even be commended for enduring serious ballet training for the movie. That being said, to insinuate that she could become as good as a professional ballerina with only a year and a half of training is a slap in the face to dancers who spent almost their entire lives training to get where they are now. And yes, in order to be at a professional level you have to start as early as possible in order to train your body properly.
Just keep in mind that English is NOT AangelKataang Greatest stregth so of course they did not correctly interpret what they hear.XxBroadwaygonnabexX
As a former ballet dancer, while sitting in the audience at Black Swan in a move theatre, I could tell that most of the dancing shots were performed by a double. My fiance kept asking me if Natalie was performing certain parts, and I kept telling him that as far as I could tell, she was doing mostly just the acting (the face shots). I even suggested that computer techniques were used to superimpose her face on a double. I think Natalie deserved an Oscar for acting. However, it would have been great if Sarah Lane had been recognized more (and maybe even awarded an Oscar for best double--that would be a great category, especially since there are so many other categories awarded other than acting) for her vital role. It's incredible the lack of recognition she received. She probably worked 3 to 6 hours a day (or more) since age seven or so honing her skills as a dancer, and yet there is minimal recognition for this. In this regard, she's not just a typical stunt double.
Natalie Portman was dancing in 28 out of 35 scenes and did approximately 80% of the work load. The double only did a small part of the work, and she is even lucky she got this much recognition. Often on movie sets doubles are contractually obligated to remain anonymous. Natalie trained 5 hours a day 7 days a week for a little over a year before pre-production and paid for it all out of her own pocket. She was approached about the project 10 years prior to filming and had taken a few classes here and there before starting the brunt of her training. The only work the double did was the very intricate point work and that was mostly during shots that were zoomed in on Ninas feet. That and a few more very intricate/difficult moves. What makes me the most upset about this is that this woman comes out seeking publicity and people start doubting Portman's ability as a dancer.
+Cat Porter I am not a ballet dancer and I could tell as well and very clearly. It is still my favorite movie. :)
I agree. It is still a wonderful movie. I just wish that, post production, more credit had been given to Sarah Lane for her integral role in the film.
sliversoul 9314: 5 hours a day 7 days a week still cant beat 22 or more years of ballet training, obviously u know nothing bout ballet
She is able to work as a professional dancer and get paid for it. She got her name in the credits and paid her bills. I don't think she deserves more. Plenty of women work as hard and as long and are comparably good but get passed over for other reasons. She's one of the lucky ones.
Hollywood is arrogant and stupid. Natalie was wonderful but the real dancer deserved credit. Voice actors get credit. I didn't think less of Natalie Wood because Marnie Nixon dubbed her songs. The Academy didn't either.
Hey Hollywood! It takes enormous effort and dedication on a daily basis for YEARS to achieve this level of skill. Were you not paying attention to your story?
Valerie Pagendarm
right, but it wouldn't be the first time this happens, actually when marnie nixon dubbed songs (not only for natalie wood), she was forbbiden to make this public and actually bullyed so she wouldn't do it. I think it's ok for the dancer to speak out.
Hollywood is not a world of dancing. It's filmmaking and acting. She came in knowing she won't get full credit and it's not like she was completely discredited.
Voice actors get credit for cartoons. Natalie did the acting here and deserves the kudos.
Ok and what about stuntmen that break bones and injure themselves and even risk their lives? Why do we not see them crying about not being credited? All of the biggest movies in the industry have stunt doubles and I have never seen one cry about not being credited? She was hired as a double and she got payed and credited and that's that. And yes, when we look at the final result of the movie Natalie DID do about 90 percent of the dancing and she does deserve credit for that as well as her acting. She took ballet lessons for a year and a half, lost 20 pounds and gave an amazing performance as Nina.
Dancing or no dancing, Natalie deserves the Oscar. She did all of the acting.
Looking the movie again... It doesn't really have THAT much ballet actually... BUT I still understand this girl!!, people need to stop putting celebrities on a pedestal!! And stop thinking that celebrities make movies alone...
"I didn't do the movie for fame or recognition or anything."
Why don't you believe that??
+Desirée Rodríguez because if she didn't care, she wouldn't speak up and she wouldn't have done that interview. She wants attention
Taehyungs Wife she did the movie because it was an interesting job... not knowing how big the movie will turn out to be... you agree that dancing was a big part of the movie??? right?? do you think is fair she doesnt have any credit??? and yet portman got an oscar?? dancing was a big part of the role, ( not all of it) but a BIG PART and the fact that people believed that portman did the dancing infuriates me too!! people need to stop believing celebrities do movies alone.... I understand her completely and she was right!!! is not nice seeing someone take credit for your work... you will be pissed... stop kissing celebrities asses
Desirée Rodríguez Why i don't? Well because she's bitching about it.
Midst I already reply... if someone takes credit for your work youll bitch about it too
Seriously though, everybody who are speaking ill about this girl just grow up. She is very polite and says that she thinks Nathalie did an amazing job. HOWEVER it is impossible for a person to become a ballerina in little more than a year. Actually unless you start of when you are very young -maybe about 6 years old or around that age- you probably will never be able to reach that level of perfection. She is merely tellling it for what it is and as a person in the business she doesn´t want the production of the movie telling lies about the hard work that must be put in. She might be feeling a bit betrayed and for good reason, if it is actually true that people tried to silence her, I mean it shouldn´t matter if she is talking to the press about HER dancing and how they did the effects since the one acting was still Nathalie. Both of them did their job and should each get credit for their own contribution.
Of course se didn't dance herself.. she is an actress not a dancer. & the oscar was for her acting not her dancing.
every movie includes doubles & stuntmen & stuntwomen.. so what's the problem with abcs news?
Schoko_Popcorn because she said she had learned to dance herself so that she wouldnt need a stunt double, but she actually did so she lied and thats why they r "exposing" her
@@paulrevere8470 Natalie never said that. She talked about her double in many interviews. But she also did train for 6 months to get everything perfect. The double did the footwork that Natalie couldn't do.
it was no secret she had a body double! of course she couldn't dance like a real ballet dancer with years of training. Her acting was on point and she trained for the part, gossshhh
This is like doing an action movie and the stunt double want to take credit for the whole movie
Nailed it. Did not take it as a career but danced since I was 3 and competitively a few years back. I totally agree. No different at all, just those in action often risk their lives doing it.
Why can't a stunt double take credit ??
Desirée Rodríguez Like in this instance do with a salary and name on he credits. Although they are actually risking their own lives unlike her they don't whine about it later. I find this to be incredibly attention seeking. She got recognition, she was named on the credits and she was paid very well, most stunt doubles don't get paid as much. What more does she want? If the film was about her it would not have been as successful. Portman has a huge fan base.
NeonLadyUK the movie is not about portman either!! and didnt you hear her say that she didnt is not credit as a dancer??!! sorry, but she is right!!, celebrities dont make movies alone! portman did not get to where she is on her own!!
Desirée Rodríguez Agree to disagree. I don't dance anymore on any competitive level but if you ask me she got a very good deal out of it. Better than most stunt doubles who actually risk their lives and other films where dancers are used. She got lots of money, named credits just fished out my copy she defiantly is on mine DVD UK region and recognition. But lets be honest nobody watched the film for this lady. She doesn't have a mainstream fanbase either that's the reality. If she didn't like the terms which would have been laid out in the contract before she even started she should have refused. You don't take the money then whine.
The actress did 80% of the dancing. The dancer did 0% of the acting. Who exactly deserves credit?
Except the actress didn't do 80% of the dancing?
Anniebelle 1414 The director of Black Swan had this to say:
“I had my editor count shots. There are 139 dance shots in the film. 111 are Natalie Portman untouched. 28 are her dance double Sarah Lane. If you do the math that’s 80% Natalie Portman. What about duration? The shots that feature the double are wide shots and rarely play for longer than one second. There are two complicated longer dance sequences that we used face replacement. Even so, if we were judging by time over 90% would be Natalie Portman.”
The dance double is only speaking out because Portman won an Oscar and Lane is simply trying to steel some of that prestige for herself.
PronounceGaming He's counting close ups of her face, and those are not dance. By saying Natalie did 80% of the ballet in the movie, he's implying that she was on pointe and actually dancing, not just moving her arms and making faces. That's why the dance double had a problem.
Anniebelle 1414 He's not implying anything, he was very explicit about his words, you and the dance double need to get over it already.
Anniebelle 1414 Except Natalie DID pointe. She practiced for six hours daily over a year for the film
oooooh my god. shut up. OF COURSE they used a double! DUH! *enormous eye roll* Natalie's acting won her that Oscar and the academy knew that was a double. this is not a new thing. it's filmmaking
The producers were trying to make people believe Natalie was on par with real ballerinas with only a year and a half of training. That is so disrespectful to all the dancers out there who train religiously from early childhood to get that good. That was where her issue was.
but faking the audiences is not right
obviously there was a double, but don't discredit Natalie, she did after all train for more then a YEAR! Thats way more that other actors for movies! ya, the real dancer (who trained her whole life) deserves credit, but as her stunt double, that's it. The double trained to became a ballerina not an actress. Natalie never said she became a ballerina in a year, but she learned an trained to ACT as one and gave an amazingly believable preformancce
beautyhearts23 a lot of the emotional scenes included dancing and that included Sarah Lane's body. All Natalie did was look sad or angsty and that's about it, not hard for anyone to do. You don't train for a year and a half to "act" like a ballerina. The studio hyped that up to make it sound like Natalie did most of her own dancing when that wasn't the case at all. I remember this well when the news first came out. Black Swan was a good movie but in no way did Natalie Portman really deserve that Oscar.
This woman has trained most likely her entire life in ballet. She deserves the praise for her dancing. I love this movie, but I wasn't only in love with the acting, it was the dancing as well. Lane deserves her name to be listed in the credits at least. Money will only take you so far, the recognition is what keeps you working. Come on Hollywood, pay credit where it's due.
it was obvious that Natalie didn't do alot of the heavy duty scenes (those that take years to learn) but the ones she did manage showed how dedicated she was to the work. She deserved that Oscar
While watching the movie, I never, for one second believed Natalie P. was doing the professional dancing. Head and distance shots are a dead giveaway. Hats off to dancer Lane fir her professional performance. Kudos the Natalie for her great acting performance.
Natalie OBVIOUSLY didn't dance, you can't achieve that with just a year of preparation there is no mystery there. Still, her acting was impressive, she totally deserved the oscar.
I feel like she was genuine when she said she wasn't seeking for fame, rather she wanted to let people know that most of the foot work was hers (I would assume). She wanted to credit herself for her own work. Someone taking her "work" and saying that it's theirs is just plagiarism.
This Sarah has a class! She did great job too! I hope she was paid well for her role.
Lmao. I didn't do it to get recognition.. she says sitting pretty on ABC News .. ok girl.
Oh. Did she really get recognition? Was she awarded of extra money for standing out? Was haters like you less offensive because she stood out to speak for ballet? I think not. She stood out because people need to take ballet seriously and understand the hurdles needed to become a ballerina and start respecting it as a serious art form.
Good for her for standing up for her craft and art form. I don't think she wants fame, she just wants people to understand and appreciate how long it takes to become the kind of dancer she is. It's a shame that she didn't get credit as a dance double and a shame that Ms. Portman didn't have the courtesy to thank her in her Oscar speak, but that kind of thing happens if you don't sign a contract.
I don't think I've ever seen an actor thank their stunt or body double? At least not personally. Should actors list every single person behind an entire film? What about the makeup artists? The editors? The screenwriters, etc? Do they not deserve as much credit as the ballerina then, orrr?
I’m a middle-aged guy, auto mechanic, little out of shape but active and I decided to attempt to replicate this achievement. I took Ballet lessons every week for a year and a half and practiced an hour per day. At the end of that period I auditioned for the Bolshoi in Russia and was granted the lead male character in their production of Swan Lake. I’ve performed in front of crowds around the Globe. I’m proof that it is doable. Respect Natalie!
Good for you, Sarah, for speaking up! The fact that someone from the movie called Sarah to ask her not to talk about her dancing, says a whole lot. It's well known that winning an Oscar involves a lot of behind the scenes lobbying, and they really wanted people to believe that Natalie Portman did all of that dancing. Nothing against Ms. Portman, but ballet dancers, in many cases, start dancing at the age of three. That is a lifetime of very hard work that absolutely cannot be learned in a few months. It IS insulting to the art form and the discipline required to think someone can master the technique and grace of ballet because they did a good job of acting in a movie. It's also deceptive to try and portray acting and dancing as one in the same. Again, good for you, Sarah, and good for ballet!
Just part of the contract, man. Stunt doubles sign a similar contract. Why should some ballerina get some special treatment and spotlight when stunt doubles don't?
@@saemunduremilsson8106 there should be a special award for both of them...why not?
If you think Natalie did all the dancing in the movie, you obviously have never danced, nor know the training. The training for becoming a ballerina is very intense, as well as physically taxing. Professional ballet is INCREDIBLY hard, smfh.
That is kind of stupid. Things like this happen in movies all the time. Say if there is a nude shot or sex scene in a film, it is usually a porn double with the actor's face imposed onto it. If there is singing, sometimes it is actually a professional singer dubbed over the real actresses singing. They could have given her some recognition for her dancing. It wouldn't have mattered. Natalie is an actress not a dancer so...?
The woman's problem was that the producers lead everyone to believe that Natalie was able to dance to the level of a professional ballerina after a year and a half of training. That, as most people with any sort of dance background will tell you, is massively disrespectful to not only dancers but the art of dance itself.
Yes I completely agree. I mean that it was silly not to give her credit for her dancing since this sort of thing happens so often in movies anyways. Why would we expect Natalie to dance like a professional? It is like believing that actors in action movies aren't actually using stunt doubles. It was wrong for the producers not to pass credit to where it was due.
@AStreetcarNamedDesire- I completely agree with you in how silly it was to not just be upfront about it. But that's the thing, and what will ultimately tarnish Natalie's Oscar forever. If she had just given Sarah the smallest of courtesies and acknowledged the professional ballerina during her Oscar acceptance speech, it would have extinguished this resulting controversy immediately.
And this leads me to the part I find most egregious on Natalie's part: when she went out of her way to thank 'all of the people who usually never get thanked' in an Oscar speech, and yet left out the one person who made her Oscar a certainty...it just couldn't have become any more of an insult to injury otherwise. Thanking your makeup artist, your hair stylist, your lighting guy....and yet not even mentioning the one woman who made you a believable ballerina?? I hate to say it but that's forever tainted my perception of Natalie herself, just as a human being. It just could have, and should have, been handled so much better.
Yeah, celebrities are just too often put on a pedestal. Their names and faces are used to sell things.
Coming from a dancer I knew she didn't do it. Like that's legitimately impossible. She deserves the oscar no doubt and the dance double signed a contract (idk what it was obviously) but that story of being able to dance like that with only a years training is unrealistic and was never even really convincing then again this is coming from a dancer, so that might be why I never found the one years training story very convincing.
Olivia Reilly as someone who has only been dancing a little over three years, I do think it is very much so possible for Natalie to reach a certain level of technique. The right amount of passion and the correct training can take you leaps and bounds in a matter of time. She was said to have trained over 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. I think a lot of the technique and skill demonstrated in the movie could have definitely been her. It is insulting to me, as a dancer, to read the comments saying she could never do that in a year when I have only been dancing for such little time and already surpass many people who have been dancing their whole lives.
Olivia Reilly and if the double does dance in the movie she deserves the praise she should get, but you shouldn't completely discredit someone based on the amount of time they've danced. I'm not saying anyone can be a dancer, but I am saying that if you truly are dedicated/passionate enough you can achieve a lot.
I'm not sure that the Oscar voters are trained dancers themselves. Getting carried away by the story, they could be influenced by the double's dancing because it helps to cement the titular character. If only the acting was important, they wouldn't have emphasized Natalie's training so extensively during the awards season. It's not just about acting. Actors have won awards for emulating boxers, musicians, etc. and after all the comments I'm reading, Natalie wasn't convincing as a ballerina even in the mid-profile shots so Sarah's dancing really saved her neck.
People getting mad at the girl for speaking up. Come on, really?
She should get recognition for what she did! If you were in a movie as a stunt but then found out people were saying the actor did all the action, I am sure you would be upset to.
Don't judge this girl for getting upset about it.
I'd understand her being upset if she had done 90-100 percent of the dancing in the film but she didn't. Natalie did majority of the dancing shown in the film. She took ballet lessons for a year, lost 20 pounds for the role and worked incredibly hard. Sarah literally only did around maybe 15 percent of the dancing in the film, the rest was all Natalie.
If she wasn't in the credits of the movie then that's deception... EVERYONE involved with creating any form of media should be acknowledged in some way - Even by having their name scrolling down alongside many others.
I mean if a professional artist created an almost finished beautiful painting for an actor to "paint" on screen, but didn't get credit and it was advertised around saying that that actor learned to paint in a year... Then that would be pure BULLSHIT just to get publicity for the film.
Movie studios should learn to respect all forms of art, because if they don't then in the future those professionals that are needed to make a movie great may not wish to be involved.
Ok cmon everyone knew it wasn't natalie wasn't doing all the dancing lol
I mean, did anyone really think Natalie Portman danced it all herself to begin with?
Yes, many people thought at the time she did all the ballet.
I didn't because I've been in the theater and dance world. But many people did.
She got the reward for her acting, not the dancing
The dancing cemented her acting.
J Mo ehmmm nope XD
It's a totally fair valid point not about her personally but the respect for the art and how long and hard the work is to become a master. Agree with commentators that they had a good grasp of understanding on her main point. It is impossible to learn those skills she learned over 22 years in a year and a half. And some dance/ballet lovers will always care about this film! Even the struggle to break free of controlling or saboteur figures in life in order to pursue ones art which is often for many/most a thankless and poorly compensated and disrespected way of life. People value money, not so much art. If you're actually sacrificing time you could be making money/a "real" career in order to preserve and practice your art -horror! What are you DOING with your life? Bum! not to mention just the challenge of getting by usually with less. for an artist to overcome this artists struggle to reach a pinnacle, she's incredibly gracious and respectful of Portman AND herself & her art.
Pretty low political, self-serving move for the director to ask her NOT to capitalize on HER OWN SUCESS! Which she has every need and right to do. If you worked all your life to achieve something and what little recognition for it you DO get - y'all fault her for taking it? 😒 that's her prerogative. girls gotta eat! You'd do the same. Lying if you say otherwise.
Seems to me most people are not even watching this video. The dancer isn't whining she is just defending her art form by making it clear that allegations that Portman did 80% of the dancing aren't true, and that face shots aren't actual dancing. This was a big Oscar campaign, and she says Portman's acting itself was Oscar-worthy (though who cares? Oscars are so rigged, a bunch of friends voting for their friends..) without needing to claim that Natalie is some sort of genius that can become a great ballet dancer in a year. We have a serious problem putting celebrities on a pedestal or even defending them at all cost when something negative is said about them, as if they were Gods or even truly good people and not the shallow and egocentric individuals most of them actually are
Daniela Gonzalez Suarez well said
But, at what point was Natalie Portman ever egocentric during this process. She deserved that Oscar. Even with the body double, she was required to undergo a physical transformation that not only allowed her to physically "look the part," but also have the arm placement and leg turnout that her character would have as a member of a professional dance company.
She did do 80 percent of the dancing seen in the film, so you're the one being ignorant I believe there were in total 35 frames of dancing and Natalie was in 28 of them. She took professional ballet lessons for over a year and lost 20 pounds for the role. It's gross how some of you want to give some special credit to the ballerina (WHO KNEW THAT HER JOB WAS JUST THAT, A BODY DOUBLE) while also discrediting the hard work Natalie put into her role. You never see stunt or body doubles being this damn entitled.
So you don't recognition and fame, yet you do a ton of interviews with magazines and news organizations to you can, what?
So that people don't think it's possible to become as good as a professional dancer in just a year. It's an insult to the art form.
Only little kids think they can become a ballerina in one year. Its obviously for the fame
Obviously not, considering how many people believed Natalie Portman was able to become that good in one year
Balerinas are very jealous women. In their world you have to fight hard for the spotlight. So jealousy and intrigues are quite common.
I'm am sorry -not all ballerinas... but I see some of them taking on TV bad things about other people.
I can see her point. She is an amazing ballerina.
I danced for many years and when I went to see the movie I was under the impression because of Natalie's background she had done the dancing.
After seeing these interviews, it is evident that Natalie didn't. One of the interviews, the film editor said that of the 35 full body dancing shots, only 12 were Natalie. That is 1/3!
It was a great movie nevertheless but Natalie and the film's producers shouldn't have marketed and led the audience to think that it was all or most of Natalie when it wasn't. I believe she won the Oscar because they thought she had taken it upon herself to do the "extra" training to do all the scenes herself. Very misleading!
Actually, he says only 12 *WERENT Natalie. :)
She was hired as a stunt double. That's it.
Nancy Guzman I think the problem is when actors use stunt doubles but then say they did their own stunts. I believe in this case the studio or producers perhaps wanted keep that facade to win awards.
diva1675 sometimes actors will do bits and pieces of their own stunt work and the stunt double will do the rest so while not always fully true that they do their own stunts it can be a combo of both. Source: I double for a few actresses regularly.
As a ballet dancer who has danced for years I have to stand by Sarah Lane. Ballet isn't something that you can just jump into and master right away, it takes years and years of practice to perfect. I don't disagree that Natalie did a good job with her performance but she is an actress which is something totally different from being a professional ballet dancer. I just feel like Sarah deserved more credit than what they gave her for the work that she did in the movie.
I'm glad she's defending her art.
Jose Olivares i
But you don't get an Oscar for dancing
Exactly, but she just wants the recognition that she was the one that was dancing most of the time.
Yes but the dancing was part of the acting
All major productions use doubles. The agreement was clear and the ballet dancer was well compensated. I watched this film with the assumption that a double was used, and I was no less impressed by Natalie Portman. Furthermore it is a movie and not a stage performance - the importance of Natalie's acting is far greater than the importance of the dancing abilities. The movie is about the phsycological torment, female competition and complexity the performance brings, not the technique itself. That's also the challenge of the main character and what creates the storyline.
Natalie would have won the Oscar anyway - and to be frank, I understand why the producers responded negatively to the dancer's Cosmo interviews. She was by no means entitled to go against the production team, involve the press and pursue some fame path of her own. I understand her reaction after the film and Natalie received so much attention, but it is still unprofessional.
I think most people understand the discipline and hard work it takes to become a dancer. It also takes great talent to be a great actress. Successful actresses receives more public attention, but Sarah did choose her profession knowing what the rewards (or lack thereof) were.
She claimed she didn't want attention. Than why open her mouth?
For ballet thats why... And she was already famous....
Because she's a hater and thought this film would make her famous.
because she finds it insulting to her and to the art that someone could do what a prima ballerina can do in a year and a half? If i was Sarah, i would speak up too.
+Vicky_lynnnnn famous to who? No one knows her but ballet people
+cottoncandyflossful Totally agree with you. Well said.
Just to make a point about how horrible this situation is, this isn't the first time that a professional ballet dancer hasn't gotten enough credit for doing a majority of dance scenes for a dance-themed movie. Marine Jahan, a professional ballerina, did many of the contemporary/ballet dancing as Alex Owens (played by Jennifer Beals) in the classic 1983 film "Flashdance." Marine's role as Jennifer's dance double was kept hidden from the press, and according to fillmmakers, they did it because they "didn't want to ruin the illusion." I say that excuse is BS. Although Jennifer Beals did an amazing job with her acting in "Flashdance," Marine shouldn't have had to keep it a secret that she did a majority of the dancing in the movie. It just sounds completely unfair, and it saddens me that this has happened again in "Black Swan." Did we not learn anything about how to give the art of dancing any respect?
Natalie didn't win the Oscar for the dancing.
I read that professional ballet dancers make somewhere around 30-35k a year. Why do they get paid so little? They train their whole lives, push their bodies to the brink of limitation, and have to be perfect and elegant while performing in front of n audience. You would think they would at least make 100k. I know people will say they are doing what they love but, damn, that's no money at all. You might as well work a office job and make like 50k or something. I would be pissed if I was a ballerina and people like Kim K makes millions while doing absolutely nothing!
...cool
***** So I can tell you're not a dancer.
No, you're right. It is sad. The people hired to do the lighting and stage effects earn roughly 5x more for the show than the actual dancers.
It's really easy to see it that way when you're not a dancer
+Victoria Provost
You're absolutely right! The way my mindset is, if it doesn't make enough money to support yourself after a ballet career then it's pretty much a waste of time. I look at the long term for everything I do in life. I started to get into bodybuilding but even the top guy, who wins many competitions, don't make much at all; and that's while competing, how are you going to make a living afterwards when you can't compete is the point I'm trying to make. You figure you bust your ass everyday for years you would want to be set financially afterwards. So, me personally, I would want to always do something that's in a big demand. Same with college, I have so many friends with high-end degrees and can't find work or stuck doing something for low pay just to make a buck. It all just seems like wasted years for nothing! I want to see dancers, not strippers lol, make more money than what they make because I enjoy ballet; The beauty, classyness, creativity, elegance, and aesthetics that it offers.
I think Natalie was great and did deserve the Oscar for her role, but a false idea shouldn't have been created about the amount of dancing Natalie did do. Either way, sad that the movie and Natalie won an oscar with a cloud of deception/controversy. That Oscar win will always be tainted because of the conversations it brings up, just my opinion.
the entire movie is about the fact that just technical dancing isn't enough, you have too feel it, show it through your eyes. Natalie was the one doing that. No one thinks she was that ballerina 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean she wasn't able to learn a few difficult moves either.
Sara is not wrong to speak out. Imagine how you would feel if it were you who doing the dancing but some else taking all the credit. Movie makers are not wrong to keep silence either. They definitely don't want to take any glory away from a potential Oscar candidate. Working as a ‘double’ is deemed to live as someone but not yourself. I just hope that the movie industry could give more credit to double actors. If the movie crew is so confident that a good actor/actress will shine through no matter having a double or not, then why not at least introduce the double actor a little bit, especially when they play a very important role in the movie. I wonder how the Oscar would end up if we were informed that despite all Natalie’s efforts it is Sara who did most of the dancing. Will Natalie still win the prize? Now I will never know.
This was an allstar cast... what they did was for money reasons. If they had billed her as a dance double etc they wouldve had to pay her a different salary and since you cannot know until the movie comes out if its going to be a flop or hit , the majority of your money has to go to securing big priced stars. She signed a contract, she shouldve looked it over better or taken it to a lawyer etc if she didnt feel capable of knowing what she was doing. The oscar is awarded to actors, she was awarded it for her acting, not the dancing per say....Anyone with half a brain knows she didnt do more than half of the dancing... There was no reason to speak out like she had been wronged in some way....The film says a double was used for some of the dancing....
Elle Young : Yes, she would win the Oscar anyway, since the category she won was Best Actress, not Best Dancer.
Of course she would have still won lol? And besides, majority of the dance scenes seen in the movie are done by Natalie, so there. The dancer hardly played an important role, not any more important then stunt actors and they never come out looking for attention like this and they work just as hard.
@@saemunduremilsson8106 the majority of those scenes they're counting are of Natalie's chest and higher shots..
Natalie's one of my favorite actresses and she deserved this Oscar.
It's just odd that the decision was made to minimize the dancing in a movie about Black Swan.
Anyone that thinks you can learn how to dance ballet like that in a few months or a year and a half is completely crazy ! It takes a lifetime to do what Sarah did and the art of ballet will live on forever
I took ballet for more than half of my life and I totally understand how hard it is for ballerinas to get where they are. The director really should have put most of the credit towards the ACTUAL dancer rather than an actor who trained for a mere one and a half years.
Natalie deserved the award because it was an award for her ACTING. She was phenomenal in that film. The producers, the directorial staff, etc set Natalie up for some scrutiny because they did not disclose the use of Sarah Lane as explicit as they should of. I truly believe that Natalie would’ve gotten the Oscar even if Sarah‘s involvement would’ve been publicized, but now we’ll never know.
What's classless is that she couldn't wait for Natalie's moment in the limelight to be over before going on tv for attention.
It should have been clearly disclosed to her that her part will not be hugely mentioned anywhere. Seems like it wasn't talked about by them when they started filming. But I understand her that it's quite uncomfortable for people to assume or think that Natalie or anyone who gets a full credit that what they did was only done by them.
Ballet takes years of intense training, no one could perform those moves with only a years worth of training, Natalie did a great job acting and the dance double did an amazing job dancing
They voted for her acting, not necessarily the dancing. Not to mention she absolutely dedicated herself to this role. Shame on you.
I think natalie got the Oscar because of the acting not the dancing
CHANNYTUBE doubt it her acting is decent at best,not amazing
SHE DID GET AN OSCAR FOR ACTING. NOT FOR DANCING BALLET. UNLESS THEY GIVE OUT OSCAR AWARDS FOR DANCING. PLEASE PUT THE ARTICLE OR PROOF BELOW.
I mean she's an actress not a dancer so obviously she isn't gonna be this amazing ballet dancer that they could just rely on, so they had to get a real ballet dancer which even before they confirmed that it wasn't Natalie dancing, it's just common sense that Natalie doesn't have time and day to practice ballet so it could of never been her.
if natalie won the oscar because everyone believed that she did all the dancing, than she did not deserve the award
That's true, but she won it for acting, not dancing, though people probably votedfor her for her 'dancing'
Why was this even an argument the acting the emotion behind the character is what won the Oscar. Who would even believe a dance double wasn't used.
Because Hollywood wants you to believe that Natalie did 80% of the dancing. She didn't. Had voters known that Natalie may not have won the Oscar. Hollywood wants you to believe that Natalie achieved something that really cannot be done.
And that's why you read the fine print... on a side note, I do understand her frustration about the whole "ballerina in a year" fiasco. Sara probably wanted to inform the general public that something that takes years to accomplish can't be done in such little time. It was a big slap in the face not just for her but other ballerinas who worked hard hours on end for the dance. The consequence of speaking out was attention. Well... Sara didn't get credit for Natalie's acting, so Natalie shouldn't get credit for Sara's dancing. And everyone who says "oh well, suck it up whiny b*" should know that if the same happened to you, you would do the same and worse... and yeah, your same crowd will tell you to stfu as well because "no one cares you did all the hard work".
so sad that hollwood does this to the people ..she dhould have gotten recognized for what she did in the movie
natalie is and amazing actresse and he def deserve the Oscar for her acting performance.. she is obviously not a ballerina the dance had nothing to do with that in my opinion
she seems so sweet :O Glad I know about Sarah Lane now!
but she got credited to be a stunt double?? Like you could say the dance scenes are "stunts" in a movie setting so its not like they didnt give her ANY credit??
Coming from a dancer, she still executed the moves during the close-ups. It is not a dance recital, they will not have constant full body shots. It's a movie.
as much as I love Natalie Portman and think she is a truely gifted actress, this is still a scandal! However Natalie didn't claim to be able to do this after only 1,5 years. In fact she said in many interviews, that she had been doing ballet for over nine years, but started working harder on her skills and with professionals like Mary Helen Bowers as soon as she knew she was cast for the movie. So she didn't make it sound super easy to do ballet! After all, her husband is a professional ballet dancer, so she must know how hard it really is. It's still a shame, that they didn't give the real dancer enough credit, but I think that was probably a move from the production company to push the film and Natalie's performance. The sad thing is, that now we will never know, whether she would've gotton the oscar, if people knew about it.
CarAccident
stunt doubles have been used for years!!!
this one movie of a danceing cavity twilrling, cant jutify one stunt double rights lol. thats what ur paid to do. she just wants the fame.......
I don't think Natalie win award because of dancing she won because she did a great acting in that movie
reporters did amazing at covering all the points.
I don't respect this person for whining about the lack of credit she thinks she got. Stunt doubles and other professionals do work without receiving personal acclaim. She got to participate in a film. She got paid, she got credits.
Now be professional and shut up
Black Swan was great and Natalie Portman was superb in the film, however this Sarah Lane is very attractive and a fantastic dancer, certainly deserves more credit, though not an Oscar as that is for acting! Maybe this girl will get a chance in the movies she certainly has the face and the moves.
to the people saying that Sarah Lane is being rude and having a bad attitude - unless you're a ballet dancer you GREATLY underestimate the amount of dancing that this Sarah did compared to the amount that Natalie Portman actually did. They were trying to create the facade that Natalie had all of a sudden become this incredible trained professional ballerina while Sarah had trained days after days for years after years after years after years after years. The director claims that "80% of the dancing shots are natalie Portman" and unless you think shots of a persons face are dancing, natalie did very, very, very, very small amounts of the actual dancing. The problem is that people greatly underestimate the difficulty of the ballet done in this movie and believe that it is Natalie who did all the dancing because that's the way that they purposefully marketed the film.
It takes years of training to be a professional ballerina. And to get on point? Took me 11 years. Point is very hard, you can't learn all of that in a year and a half.
It took me one year to get en pointe....
I actually got en pointe in a little over a year. It all depends on how hard you push yourself and how quickly you build technique and strength. It's different for everyone.
+Sophie nelisse lover
Me too
not from when you first started dancing ballet. doesn't Georgia anne mean that she began dancing at like 3 or something and then 11 years of dancing she was ready for pointe? you can't start as a non dancer at 10 years old having zero ballet or anyother ddance experience and then study ballet for a year and then get en pointe after a year.
The movies target audience is dancers and dance enthusiasts. Anyone who cares about ballet that much would immediately know that Natalie DIDNT DO THE DANCING! The Black Swan is a part reserved for only the most senior or very talented professional ballerina. Even a Corps de Ballet dancer wouldnt do it and they have trained for upwards of 10years. By pretending that Natalie did dance they are seriously underestimating their audience intelligence.
what the fuck is wrong with everybody. it's a movie! she didn't get an Oscar for her dancing, and I was wayyyyy more impressed by the acting than the dancing in this movie. it's the producers and the directors and the actors goal is convince the audience something is real when it's not.