MILOS "THE MIND" SARCEV & THE MAD SCIENTIST! Iron Debate
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- čas přidán 1. 11. 2017
- You asked for Milos Sarcev, we delivered.
Milos "The Mind" Sarcev and Ameen Alai combine for "The Mind and the Mad Scientist" episode if Iron Debate!
Milos, well known for his theories on usage of insulin in bodybuilding, goes toe to toe with Ameen and Dave Palumbo in standing by his philosophies on insulin usage.
More to come from Milos and Ameen on future episodes!
It's Iron Debate on RXMuscle.com. - Sport
Get Coach Trevor from Enhanced Athlete on the show. Like this post guys if you agree so we can get him on!
EZ2CYU812
This would be the best thing ever please do this.
Like
Like
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EZ2CYU812 great idea!!!!
Good one. Tell him you will pay for his next ladyboy if he does the show.
dave would have to pay double
EZ2CYU812 WE WANT COACH TREVOR FROM ENHANCED ATHLETE PLZ
Much respect to all of you. Milos however handled himself very well with all the doubts. We need more of both guests
The moderator almost totally ruined this one. Interrupting Milos in the middle of him getting into the good stuff
Randy Madsen I agree. The moderator mainly interrupted Milos. It was irritating.
I can't stand Sid! I wish Dave would get rid of him. There's something about him that's very irritating!
@@rayjay6769 yea he always interrupts and has a weird aura about him.
I've been well aware of Milos since the 90's- reading flex as a kid, but I didn't realise how engaging and how much fun he is! Laid back, but passionate and just a very funny, charismatic guy. More Milos Dave!
Haven’t even finished the ad for this video yet and already stoked and thumbs up. Anything with Dave and milos is gold!!’l
The safe protocol for fast acting insulin is:
For a 100 kg bodybuilder,
10iu and 100gr of carbs
So 1iu per 10kg of bw and 10gr of carbs per kg/bw
George Touliatos MD 10 iu 15 min or 45 min before workout? And then 10iu ASAP after workout or is ten minutes later or once I’m home from the gym?
Thanks
@@Jimmyocean88 pre and intra shakes.
Excellent 💯👍🙏
Look at milo’s clients and himself using his protocol, then look at Dave’s. It’s obvious which protocol works and has Olympia contenders and which one is for NPC local guys.
There’s the temptation to say that here also. But you have to consider the genetic factor Dave just was not blessed with good conformation or shape. What you have to consider is Dave was in all the same magazines because he was over 300lbs and equally as lean. So his body fat and muscle density was the same as an IFBB pro but he didn’t make it pro only because he was not a very shapely physique not because he didn’t have the amount of muscle and the leanness to make it! He has as many guest posing jobs as all the IFBB pros. He was also one of the first to be freaky sized bodybuilder in those days early mid 90s 320 lbs bodybuilders just wasn’t a thing yet.
My overall point is you do not have to have the resume to have the experience. For all intents and purposes he was a pro. He made a living at it and had the magazine shoots etc etc to be considered a pro!!! Just not the card to compete pro!
But to the point Dave is erring on the side of caution! As far as insulin use and he was able to produce a 300 lbs physique doing it at a much safer protocol! That’s something to consider
I was Just there when Dave was on the nationals stage winning his class BTW! So you realize when Dave competed it wasn’t like mid 2000s or now where you get a pro card for winning your class at nationals! Back then you had to win the overall!!!
I just can’t bring myself to be down on Dave he was one of the first freaks he got all the guest posing gigs back then I saw him at a ton of shows all through the south! I saw him at the 97 nationals! I had buddies o stage with him! The dude did everything right size and leaness he just was not handed the genetics to win it all! In today’s world his accomplishments would have earned him a pro card because he won his class at multiple national events! But my overall point is the knowledge can not be questioned because you didn’t go pro!!! Dave went through medical school too. So knowledge at the cellular level
Is there! And experience training competitors and competing!
Exactly
Ameen and Milos are both amazing guests. They were also more civilized than our gracious host ahahahahha
No shit! This is by far the best video that RxMuscle has ever had. I love Milos and Ameen. Both are super smart and funny cool dudes. Milos's physique is one of the most aesthetic physiques in the history of bodybuilding. Probably top 3 with flex and Levrone, as far as guys with mass and aesthetics go those are the top from the 90s
AGREED!!! Great episode.! Top 3 for sure!
jordan dangelo
Definitely agree with the top three , Milio‘s has such a classic physique for the 90s also he never blew out his gut, still has a great mid section now.
John paul Gottie thanks man. Milo's mid section was razor sharp. I remember being a kid in the 90s and looking at Muscle and fitness magazines and Milos was always on a cover either by himself or with a hot chick. Plus he was in a ton of advertisements and I always thought if I had that physique every single hot girl would like me and I could have everyone's respect in life haha. His abs were like bricks but his stomach didn't stick out at all like guys nowadays. The shape and symmetry of his chest was also remarkable and enhanced the mid section so much more.
Top 3 ? Not even close lol. Zane. Flex. Shawn ray. Kevin maybe? Lee preist. Milo is not top 3
jordan dangelo
Milos would run the country better than trump.
What Ameen says at 26:06 onward is absolute gold! Bodybuilders on certain drugs nowadays are growing too big too fast, & they're not giving themselves enough time to allow the muscle to properly grow & mature. Which will give the more striated separated look. And ultimately it has dawned the age oversized bodybuilders with little to no definitive definition to separate themselves from one another. This is a process & a craft. Not an overnight magic potion. It must be utilized accordingly & methodically.
Yup, i think its why Ramy still needs time for his muscle to mature... Too big too fast has a "softer" less striated look for sure
Common Sensei tjats just from insulin tho. Dallas mccarvwr was a good example. Towards the end of his life his muscle were maturing much more then 2 years ago
Sir Preece Dallas looked really fucking good though when you look back at the pics. He was vascular and separated and dry and hell. But it's true he was growing too fast
I definitely agree with what you said bro. I've been noticing for years that a lot of these guys have huge fucking muscles so you're supposed to say wow they look awesome but when I look at a more aesthetically pleasing and shredded bodybuilder like the top guys from the 80s and 90s I always say to myself, guys look so much better from back the . And then I say well these new guys are so much bigger so they must be better. I go back and forth because Phil Heath 2011 to me is a pinnacle but so is Ronnie 99, 2003, Lee Haney 91' even Arnold 73' 74' 75' and Sergio Olivia every year he won with that 27 inch wait and giant lats, forearms and calves.
So I'm not too sure but I do know Ameen knows his shit but so does Milos
jordan dangelo heres the thing. Back than everyone was training hard, there were no where near as many pros back than, and everyone who was pro was usually training in the same gym. It was all about quality not quantity. But no people with crazy genetics are coming out but are lazy fucks and thats why kuwait is here now
You should get ameen more often. He is awesome
Ameen should have a podcast
^this^
maarrsseelli j
They should test each of these protocols on Sid and see what works best.
Best Iron Debate so far. You guys should make a series with these guys and release it on a steady basis. This is really informative and entertaining.
Absolutely love these two. I hope you guys can see from the amount of likes and the amount of interactivity between commenters, that this is one of the most popular shows.
DAVE, YOU NEED TO MAKE THESE 2 COME ON EVERY WEEK FOR A NEW SHOW WITH THE 3 OF YOU!!! And maybe bring in a different guest body builder weekly to discuss how the theories of you 3 gurus have actually worked for them and how these protocols are in general from their pov...
Or something like that that keeps these 2 coming back... And get Chad Nicholls back on too plz, hed make a great 4 th cog in this machine i believe...
mike zb yes. not only informative but it would raise daves "views".
I agree!
Eric Ruden what do the other guys get out of it? Dave would need to pay them.
Larry Medina well, seems like milos would come on amytime and talk hours upon hours. Overall it might bring exposure to both coaches. Seems more like people come.on this because they like having a friendly debate.
For guys like ameen it would be nice to see them once in a while come back on. I understand if it wont happen due to time constraints and other business matters.
if dave makes it once in a while thn he can keep doing what he's doing. just rotate the guest list.
Milos is great
U can walk, yes... u can run... or u can get in a fuckin Ferrari lol!
Best RX muscle episode ever. More of Milos and Ameen
This was an all time great one, we'll be looking back at this for years to come
The absolute best Bodybuilding content on the internet by far! That was a treat fellas.
This was an outstanding and highly informative session. I learned so much! Just excellent. The training, supplementation and nutritional information, plus the thinking behind it is terrific. More shows like this would be great.
Impressive guests! I didn't watch yet but their are some serious minds here. Dave you count as one of those serious minds too. I have a lot of respect for you.
One of the best Iron Debate videos. Good going team. :)
Great info, and I love the respectfull way the guys debated and shared their knowledge.
Amazing information. It is crazy that not many years ago, you would have had to pay big money or know someone on 'the inside' for this kind of knowledge. Great show!
Sid had an easy night with this show. He just got back to kick back and listen to Milos lay it out.
This is just pure gold, from some of the best guys in the industry!
So glad ive found this, always wanted to see this debate between Milos and Dave :)
Ameen made a lot of sense here. Also looking at Dave's palumboism I think his protocol should be looked at very carefully. 75% of igf receptors are in the gut.
Dave is wrong. Glycogen synthase is activated allosterically by insulin. Therefore, you can increase glycogen storage using external insulin. Secondly, glycogen synthase is also induced by insulin. In other words, insulin increase the production of glycogen synthase. Therefore, you end with more quantity of glycogen synthase by induction and at the same time more activated glycogen synthase allosterically. Milos was right but he did not have the science background to could support his point
Milos Milos Milos enough said
Really appreciate the debate. Met dave 2006 olympia expo. Met milos in dublin ireland at shawn ray muscle camp. Thank you all for information. Now to try milos protocol. Love from ireland x
Amazing episode of iron debate exactly why I watch RX muscle every day. More content like this 👏🏼👏🏼 very torn between both points of view.. the best way to use insulin would be a combination of both points of view
There is what works on paper and what works in real world and what milos has done is test the theory in real life
Such a great topic 3 different protocols and all work. But I love the fact they can have a civil discussion without arguing and if they don't agree they back up their opinion intellectually and without being rude.
Great sound improvement!! Over the top fantastic episode!!!
Great debate!! All parties were right. Very logical and well thought out arguments. I tend to follow Milos more. I have used his protocol with great results while taking L I really didnt see much result except I felt better during training. This was the best Iron Debate of all time!!!
Milos has my vote in this debate!
How many pro shows has Dave won? 0!
awesome stuff. next time make it a two hour special. give the people what they want! Anyways one of the best episodes. Id say this and when chris aceto vs jerry the brain brainum were my fav.
Damn up past my bedtime cause this video is too damn good ..great job guys
Niiiiiiiice Dave!!!!! Thanks man!!! Big ups!! Respect!!!!!
Fantastic show,lol you guys are the best! thank you guys for all of your knowledge! ⚡🔨⚡💪🦁
Milos is the best
mike c I have tremendous respect for Milos
11:30pm uk time I’ll listen to this and within 15mins I’m sleeping lol
Awesome stuff!!!! More from these 2 PLEASE!!!!
Dave words will never be enuff to thank u n ur team.n channel💖💖💖💖🙏 thank u soooo much💖💖💖🙏guys💖🔥🙏💥
The era of bodybuilding when Milos was on stage destroys today's bodybuilders, I don't know Ronnie's protocol Flex wheeler protocol or Dexter Jacksons but these men Destroy the look of today's young bodybuilders coming up, already with stomach growth far out reaching there chest size, doing 1 to 2 shows a year while the 90's guys early 2000's clearly had better protocols and way more shows in a year. Jay cutler I think 2003 working with Milos, I think Iron man looked insanely good, in all fairness to Jay even at his largest never NEVER had a distended stomach like today's Mr Olympia line.
john m never said they were just whatever they were doing his Era was better at doing it. They all have valid protocols as human beings we are all built slightly different and therefore need different protocols.
Majin Vegeta also they have washed out muscles with no lines. Their abs hv now shadows and quads no lines. Ramy is guilty with losing lines. Roelly too. Nathan DeAsha has great lines even in his quads.
I love u dave and your hair but I prefer Milos science and his hair too. 😬
sry but jay was serious pig! he definitely had problem with gut, but because of his overall mass it was not so visible. he went way far than dorian which start this era...
non I disagree and at all times of his career was able to hit a slight vacuum pose, Jay Cutler with a gut? Haven't seen a single on stage picture of Jay Cutler losing his composure, letting his stomach out? Jay was wide but distended stomach, I think not.
man, he had imho definitely distended stomach, but not out of control. he could flex abs and was probably aware enough to do so, but he had a gut imho. and i can agree with him that cause of these bellies is mainly overeating, in which he was real expert :-)
It’s amazing how much better Milos and Sid look 5 years later!
Yeah very true better living more cash flow
Damn, I wanted to go to sleep...it's 1 in the morning here
Great show, thanks.
Great video guys. Love it
Awesome!!!! Thank you Dave!!!!
Great brotherhood. Video.Interesting stuff, Milio’s is great.he gets a little crazy the mad scientist keeping the peace.Dave the IFBB pro insulin girl colleen, I really enjoyed that video on INSULIN also.
Excellent debate Dave you nailed this one, Respect brother ;)
GREAT EPISODE! LOVED IT!
Incredible debate here, great job! Ameen is a class act no doubt about it and the knowledge and passion that MIlo's has for what he does is the direct result of the body he produced and the bodies he continues to produce in these top end pro atheletes.
Finally, Milos reveals Ronnie Coleman’s secret for metabolizing 2 gallons of KC Masterpiece per day.
All three of these guys are fucking brilliant, but I hope non of the many listeners go out and try this shit without proper guidance. Hearing this makes it sound like probodybuilding is more of a science experiment than a sport
Deon Spears it really is. That is why I call it an experience of evolution. Antibiotics and steroids are the same to me. All should be legal.
Larry Medina agreed
Deon Spears it is just among the genetic elite, i guarantee every top nody builder in the past decade has had close calls using insulin
I just injected 1000000 units of insulin
Thanks guys. Very informative and entertaining!!!
I’ve got Only One request: Please take time to explain to your younger viewers, exactly how dangerous insulin is.
Impressionable kids are gonna get the wrong ideas about this stuff, and potentially do serious damage to themselves or even end up dead.
Thanks for this video. I'm glad you are over bitching about Lui Marco and are doing great videos again. Keep them coming, and as requested by many, bring Coach Trevor onto the programme.
Very interesting. Glycogen synthase is unregulated by insulin and increases its activity a lot. In biochemistry it is frequently a mistake to focus in on the activity of one enzyme when there are hundreds or thousands of variables changing simultaneously. Using the short acting insulin is the most intelligent thing to maintain the insulin sensitivity as much as possible and will probably give better health in the long term.
my best thanks to all of You for your sharing and huge contribute on such a delicate matter, putting in clear - from different sides and views coming from each one experiences and knowledges - some basic and foundamental "bricks" of culture on that. imho, this how elevating the level and set the bar high for those who will put in sinthony and follow the progress - yes. i consider it steps ahead anyway, beyond if one can refuse the object, as it consist - in the substance- of "how to maximize ( Milos's higher and wise conception) the effects- Above all, the proof of how "solid rocks" can quietly, brilliantly and in a funny way ( i'm still smiling on certain transitions on the matter ) comparing and sharing each one path and achievments. My best compliments on this attitude and behaviour. All of you deserve deep and true RESPECT for your gifts.( let me just add, - as i feel it truly living in my "BB/HP's soul"- i personally go with Milos' huge datas, experiences and wisdom, for reasons i stored trought a much more time than a pair of decades and as i follow His entire path and from the first time i met him in Rimini (Italy) in a Championship i joined i had my first time honour the shake his hand - and with Gunther Schielerkamp - on a stage and down of it and , today, by internet) Hope to see much more on this line and level. God bless all of You and your dearest and closest.
Superb👌🏻more with milo & Ameen 💪🏻
Dave calls Milos ludicrous 35 times during this interview.
John seven
Ludicrous ifbb pro.
Dave is a ludicrous hairline maybe.
Ameen is a mastermind; MORE WITH HIM PLEASE!
Dave Palumbo, you mentioned going low/no carb for about 3 days then carbing up on/after the 3rd day to increase your maximum glycogen in the muscles via glycogen synthase. I am wondering if you do this repeatedly, will it increase your maximum glycogen synthase every time you do this? OR will this only work one time to increase your maximum glycogen synthase? I am trying to increase my maximum glycogen synthase to superhuman amounts.
VERY appreciated if you can answer this question!
Next iron debate: Johnny styles and Jeff the producer. Boom!!!
Milos is the man. He's got a lot of top placing and champion pro bodybuilders under his belt from a long time ago up to this time. He walks the talk. Nuff said.
Collette vs Milos Topic: Insulin and Insulin use for bodybuilders but with the two guys you have right here GH seems like the fun topic to do.
I feel like if you use Milos' strategy while keeping all other meals low carb would be ideal. You will still remain insulin sensitive since the only time you will be using sugars are around the workout and won't build up insulin insensitivity due to the fact that the exogenous insulin would be around the workout, which is the time your body naturally lowers your blood sugar due to the exercise.
I think this is the first time you actually had a debate on iron debate usually everybody just agrees with each other
Best show i saw for a long time we need more shiws like this
26:15 love Ameens option on this !! I agree !
Sorry that I got late to this vid. Now GH and Insulin are antagonist and you have long and fast acting insulin, so... When would one apply the GH? Is it first thing in the morning fasted? Or does that depend what time of day you do your workout?
Amin mentioned an important factor and is TIMING.
Any comments?
I know one thing. When I drank a high Sugar drink right before a workout, my pump was insane. And no I didn't shoot insulin.
Kurt Paumen you didn’t need to because your body produced enough from the sugar (your not diabetic so your pancreas produces plenty of insulin when you consume sugar)
This is great content. Thanks
Great interview 3 very knowledgeable men 💪💪
Dave got loud on this one 😀
Unnar Karlsson dave is right on this one.
Paul Marzec nope. One was a pro and was not.
Paul Marzec not just a regular pro the most popular body and midsection of all time. Milos fame was so high that it made Nasser jealous.
Dude awesome video I love Ameen And Milos.
Milos hell yeah.!
Awesome!!
That was awesome !!
Milos did have one hell of an aesthetic physique...hes trained and guided top top olympia guys....the other 2 havent .Simple reallly
steve ewer yep. And Akim Williams in the hands of Palumbo was a fat boy water buffalo.
Who did Milo train on Olympia stage last two years?
Ameen also coached Olympia competitors in the 90s like Don long and King Kamali
Toney Freeman finished top olympia 2008, with Dave.
Top 5*
Good debate...Bravo Rx 😉
Why is Dave screaming??
Milo's is in Fullerton? 10 MN away.. man that would be awesome to get a session with him
Hugz Swolebound cal state fullerton?
Thats Dope Dave thanks!
Great one !!!!!
I literally haven't watched a second but I'm so excited lol
Another thing they left out is high dose orals or test/tren base pre insulin That makes a big difference you will gain on average 40 lbs in 1-2 months
I shit you not take 50mg dbol or 100mg androl pre insulin workout you will gain a lb a day that's the secret I shit you not that's a little low on the orals though your only using them pre insulin
Best yet!
The central amount of sugar looks like a street in the south of Somalia. Never forgotten Tom Platz, master of the lower pex desaster, currently discussed a topic I was very nervous about. It was the crushed cauliflower product called 'Crushed Cauliflower' which helps you pull the trigger on the lat pulldown with a very parallel close grip.
Forever alone but never forgotten and sincerely yours
Josef Stalin
Any guys remember Tim Belknap, early 1980s bberwho was insulin dependent diabetic. He had insane size and density for his time and often wonder if this was also partly because of his prescribed insulin use??
Great debate!
The carb deplete then supercompensate was BODYOPUS by Dan Duchaine....credit due
Carb loading,after a glycogen depletion phase,will spike insulin and glycogen synthase.But this insulin spike will make you feel sluggish and sleepy.Its a typical rebound phenomenon that takes place the week before the show.
THAT HOUR WENT QUICK!!
Cool video ..more plz
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG
But basically what I got from this video is Dave and ameen don't agree with milos using insulin with high amounts of sugar pre workout because your body already naturally is producing insulin and shuttling nutrients on its own due to a certain receptor , & also they are saying that most bodybuilders would get fat on this protocol ? Also I didn't quite understands Daves protocol with insulin can someone explain this to me please ?
Ben Tormey thanks for explaining that
my father was a multi national and easter European Track Cycling Champion..competing in the 60's and 70's...I remember him telling us that they used insulin ...im not sure about the details..but i truly believe what Milos is saying .
Dave i got a question , if i train in morning and i took a dextrose shake with iso whey protein that can convert me in a diabetic ? Cus the fast acting sugar drink ?
at what blood sugar level should u take in insulin and carbs , does it matter if blood sugar is spiked from carbs are sugar ? becuz my blood sugar dosent really spike alot from carbs it spikes quick from sugar
Milos is so good..