Trap Bar Deadlift vs Barbell Deadlift | Differences and FAQs
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
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The trap bar deadlift versus the barbell deadlift. These exercises often get roped into the same bucket because they both include "deadlift" in their name, however, this can be a limited way of looking at them.
The trap bar deadlift and the barbell deadlift are fundamentally different exercises and we need to acknowledge this fact.
When we're able to place them in their own categories, then we can program each exercise more strategically. In this video, we discuss multiple topics including:
0:28 Trap Bar Deadlift and Barbell Deadlift Differences
1:58 Trap Bar Deadlift and Barbell Deadlift Muscles Worked
2:51 Trap Bar Deadlift Benefits
3:59 Barbell Deadlift Benefits
5:37 Which exercise is better for beginners?
6:21 Which exercise is better for sports?
7:19 Which is "safer"?
8:04 Which is better for back gains?
8:34 Which is better for leg gains?
9:14 How often can I program each?
10:13 Which is better for power production?
The #TrapBarDeadlift and the #BarbellDeadlift have some things in common, but for the most part, it's best to place them into their own respective playing fields.
If we can dial in the adaptations that each can produce for specific goal-focused scenarios, then we program more thoughtfully.
Each exercise comes with a TON of benefits and these benefits will best be served when they're related to your overall training goals.
Like this #TrapBarDeadliftVSDeadlift showdown? Which two exercises should we do next?
Love the trap bar, I completely replaced squats and barbell deadlifts with it. Best of both worlds.
It’s such an underrated training tool!
The best part about it is that it doesn't put a lot of strain on your knees and back.
You probably don’t want to replace squats it’s the best movement for leg mass
@@slgjavi3473 Tbh, I'm going to respectfully disagree. The mindset that squats are the "best" for mass is constantly thrown around our industry without much thought given to context. When we talk leg mass specifically, we need to define that better. There are multiple ways to build larger legs ex: leg press, split squats, hack squats, etc. and at times, squats specifically, can be limiting in nature due to the axial loading + the higher skill component required to complete them.
For example, if I have an athlete or a beginner that wants to build leg mass, barbell back squats will probably not be my first pick. An athlete will need to be much more conscious of their sport-specific needs and fatigue levels while beginners might be better served to start with an exercise that is easier to monitor/scale - for this reason, I would opt for variations that better align with their goals and tackle the goal of mass.
Basically, the point is this. Let's try to move away from the mindset that any one exercise is "best" - I think it can be limiting to think this way. Context always matters. The back squat can be great for building lower body mass - no doubt - but there's much more to the topic than simply programming more squats for bigger legs and I think we could do better by defining that upfront and acknowledging the multi-factorial nature of building leg mass!
A lot of times, we default to exercises like squats because they've been perpetuated for so long with the messaging, "you must do this,' etc. etc., but outside of getting really good at squatting, you don't have to do them to effectively build leg mass.
Let me know if that makes sense!
@@thatfitfriend it does make sense I understand now
Got disc herniation year and half ago. Trap bar deadlift are only deadlifts I can perform. And It is absolutely perfect. My power has skyrocketed.
Love hearing that 🤝
Same here. I also do trap rdl
This is an excellent discussion of the differences between the trap bar and barbell deadlifts.It’s probably the best explanation I’ve seen of the differences. Although, as you said, neither lift is inherently dangerous, I do think that for 95% of the population, it’s much easier to hurt yourself doing the straight bar dead lift. That 95% of the population is much more likely to have a heavily rounded back doing the straight bar dead lift. I am among that 95%. But I feel comfortable doing the track bar deadlift, starting out with a low weight and working my way up.
Awesome analysis! Much clearer than other videos on CZcams. Keep up the good works!
Thank you! 💪
Love your channel !! Great videos, keep making more about different types of exercises and pros/cons
Thank you! I should do more, honestly. I've been very disenchanted with creating training content lately - I should start drafting some next vids!
I rarely watch videos over 5 mins but this video had value in almost every second and is probably the best deadlift explanation video that I've seen. Awesome work man! Thank you!
Heck yeah! I’m stoked the video provided value for you - thank you for watching/the feedback 💪
This video is awesome. No nonsense, no ego, not trying to be controversial or edgy. If only CZcams fitness info was more like this then a lot more people would have much better, and much more attainable ideas about fitness, physique and programming specificity. I came hear looking for some tips on form and exercise selection, got both. Thank you
I really appreciate this feedback and I agree across the board. Thank you!
sup dude, great video. This was exactly what I was looking for and you presented the information so well! Thank you my guy
Ay, thanks man! Appreciate that feedback 💪
Only ever use trap bar. 52 with polymyalgia and this is perfect for my mobility.
Very good explanation. Thanks 😊
Thank you!
Mate! You are the first Tuber I've seen who uses overhand grip for "both" hands!!! On the barbell. Legend! Thank you & thank you for the vids 🙌👊
Always double overhand until 405 lb, then hook grip 🫡
Thanks for checking out the content 🤝
Amazing video! Highly impressed
Thank you!
I use trap bar deadlifts as a variation exercise for training the deadlift in general. Likewise I use decline bench as a variation on flat bench, front squat as a variation on back squat, etc.
I struggle with leg drive off the floor, so I’m thinking the high bar trap deadlift would be great for that.
I’m going to swap out my heavy conventional work for these over the next few weeks as well.
Save my lower back for the squat
Really great video! Subscribed!
Hell yeah, thank you! Welcome and stoked to have you 💪
Very informative video! 👍👍
"Farmer's walk" is a favourite exercise for functional strength. Trap bar is perfect for this. 🔥
So good, have that featured in my trap bar variation video!
When I hurt my lower back, I pretty much swapped my Squats and DLs with Hex Bar DLs and my legs were just fine, I only started squatting and deadlifting again because I enjoyed doing them
Using a trap bar with the low handles in my opinion is the perfect deadlift variation. Erectors are more involved than the high handles due to the lower starting position. While posterior chain recruitment may not be as robust, the stimulus:fatigue ratio is much better than a barbell deadlift. To really put the hamstrings to work, I greatly prefer RDLs which can also be performed with the trap bar.
not to mention you have to use more stabilizer muscles to keep the bar from shifting......
I'll do this more than deadlift barbell. thank you for this knowledge
Great Information Video
Iv started using this as i have back issues L5S1. Could never squat. This feels good but im taking it slow.
The problem I see with hex bar is how it works shoulders, like working on bench does more for my DL than working on squat at the moment.
Ok im a fan. Very easy to understand you know what you are talking about!
Thank you for checking out the video!
Mesmerizing video,apparently u got both knowledge and power, attachamp💪🏻
After over two decades of work out naturally , i just enjoy and prefer trap bar since its multipurpose and more suitable to heavier and least reps although i do the bar but lighter and more reps just to gain some sharper pains on posterior
at the end i gotta say as the name itself implies it just traps u eventually by time lapsing and aging😉
Awesome vid thank you. I'm training legs for cycling and can't stand the barbell deadlift. But, I've probably been putting too much weight on the bar. Trap lift is much more comfortable for heavier weights.
Glad it helped! IMO, if cycling is the primary goal I wouldn’t necessarily sweat not using the BB dead if you’re not comfortable with it. Can train similar ROMs and get as much strength carryover for cycling without stressing over that movement. Trap typically has a lower skill threshold so it can great for athletes that want a load/intensity stimulus without sinking a ton of effort/thinking into the dead 🤝
Thank you ❤
Hey Mate i have been doing powerlifting for 10 years now, barbell deadlift has always been my favorite exercise, however i am not competing anymore and i am trying a bodybuilding schedule because i feel that doing low reps high weight is more dangerous and it does tire my whole body a lot more...
Plus, doing 8-12 reps gives you that well satisfying pump that low reps can't give you... Anyway, there is this belief that deadlift with the straight bar is the best ever... But i am now experiencing the trap bar and it is fun and i don't feel much the lower back fatigue that really pisses my off when living as a normal human being lol
I wanted to say that i appreciated a lot your video and that you overshare a lot of knowledge, really rare to see! Good work
Thank you so much!
Holy shit, where have this guy been.... the detailed explantion is outrages. Well done.
Thank you & Appreciate you! 💪
@@MegaYamahar I can, but I always hesitate with diet because I never want someone to take what works for me and blanket it for themselves, but I can definitely talk on what I’m consuming now as I train for the Triple 5 feat.
What do you mean by equipment? Like workout equipment at my gym?
@@thatfitfriend nice, by equipment i mean, if you use any belts, straps etc. And what brand you are using.
@@MegaYamahar ah, for sure! I can do that and rotate often for review purposes, but some of my current go-to’s include:
Knee Sleeves: SBD knee sleeves
Belt: pioneer lever belt
Shoes: legacy lifter 2s
That’s pretty much it - I rarely use straps/wrist wraps!
I get lower back pain when doing deadlifts is this a better and safer alternative
It’s a common misconception that the lats are performing shoulder extension during the deadlift. You’re actually performing hip extension even at the very end. Your lats and traps are isometrically contracting to prevent the weight from swinging and your arms from falling off, respectively. But these are isometric contractions. This is primarily a posterior chain exercise. The trap bar deadlift is essentially a squat as you’re performing simultaneous knee extension and hip flexion, like a squat.
Good vid. I just thought I'd remind you that there is more than one way to pull the trap bar. You can keep your upper body more upright and make it more of a squat. You can bend your knees a lot less and put more emphasis on lower back - or you can keep your stance more in between. You can do all that with a straight bar as well but to a lesser degree. The straight bar is always going to be in front of you which forces the lower back to do more of the work. Personally, I love them both and have included both in my workouts for many years.
Feel you and I have a trap bar deadlift variation video on the channel.
Comparing 10 different trap variations/setups versus a barbell deadlift would be low-key too much information for most since the average watcher is most concerned with the more traditional trap bar deadlift setup versus the barbell dead.
Thanks for all the information. The discussion was very informative but a bit too long and technical in my opinion. For example, as a beginner, I didn't know what you meant by "posterior" here - a word you used several times. I wish you would have explained that in the beginning. Just some constructive criticism :)
Saved the video and going to try the trap bar for my next leg day!
Hey Jake. I always find myself coming back to this video all the time because I love both movements and it’s a great reminder on how and when to incorporate both. I’ve noticed a lot of people say they avoid deadlifting with a barbell because they have bad backs. Given you understand it’s not inherently a dangerous movement (and that you’re not a doctor), if you were training someone and he said that, what would you say in response?
IMO, the folks that say that are one of two things *typically*, 1) blanketing their bias and bad experience with deadlifts and now projecting them in a reductionist way, or 2) they're simply not good at deadlifting and they don't want to put the time in to learn them or coach them properly.
It's all in the dosing. Typically, injuries that arise around exercises are the result of poor load/volume management or a neglect of the skill-focus of the movement. I always find it so interesting how the deadlift gets demonized, especially from coaches and athletes that lovveeeee to tell everyone how well-versed they are with training and recognize context.
My response is...if you don't want to deadlift, don't. But don't scare people out of an exercise because of your own projection. Its like the coaches that say shit like "I don't use power cleans because they're too complicated"...do you not use them because you can't coach them or you're just not good at them, LOL. People aren't fragile and the body is awesome at self-organizing and learning exercises when taught well!
Some folks, though, you just have to let be at the end of the day.
@@thatfitfriend love it Jake. Thanks for the thoughtful response. Agreed with all of this. Fear mongering over deadlifts, power cleans, olympic lifts and others gets so exhausting. At the end of the day, yeah, if they’re too scared, unwilling or biased to do something, whatever, don’t do it. It just gets annoying when people make it their business to tell others the same thing. “My back is bad so if you keep doing what you’re doing, yours will be bad too” and all that. I think even if the comments on this video, some probably have ignored what you said and say they only trap bar deadlift to “protect” their backs. It is what it is.
Underated channel
Thank you so much!
Good balanced points on both barbell and trapbar. I use both. I like the trapbar because I have less cues to focus on. The downside is that it makes me lazy and I find myself doing less and less barbell. The barbell lift is much more satisfying to me probably because it requires more skill and mental focus.
I love the trap bar. I find it hard to get into the proper form with the BBDL plus I can load heavier with the trap bar.
It's not about how much weight you put on the bar. It's your form.
I love trap bar deadlifts ❤️
Great video Jake, quick question, would you say hex bar is a LOT easier than deadlifting with the bar? I have always struggled to pull over 300 pounds on conventional but today I tried hex bar for the first time and pulled 315 for 1. Also I don’t compete in powerlifting events but do you think I’d be able to apply a hex bar deadlift max towards my total or should that strictly be for what you pull on the bar
“A lot easier” can vary based on multiple factors. Generally speaking, athletes can typically lift more with trap deads due to the hand positioning, skill component, and how it’s usually a bit more leg dominant off the floor!
It’s multifactorial.
Yes, to an extent. For ex, I’ll typically use trap deads as a supplemental exercise on programs where I’m pulling twice a week. So, I’ll barbell dead one day, and trap another. Trap deads can be nice because they can help teach you to use more quad off the floor and you can typically train at higher volumes with them with less overall fatigue to their ROM + muscles used
I liken the trap bar deadlift to a squat that can shift due instability on the sagittal plane . It is hard to know really from rep to rep where the load is going to hit . It’s more of a squat than a hinging pattern though. I personally would t bother and just choose a high, low or front barbell squat .
@Jake | That Fit Friend What is the difference in the amount of weight between the two workouts? I’ve never maxed out deadlift but on the trap I’ve gotten 410 with some extra energy.
Generally, lifters find that they can lift more with trap bar deads, but the amount of "more" will be individual. I can't say definitely how much - sounds like you should test!
And why is it that many can lift more with trap deads? Likely due to the hand positioning, balance of load, and the skill requirements of each exercise!
Great vid. Do you think trap bar weight carries over to conventional? For ex, does a 450 low handle trap bar translate to 450 conventional, or a little less?
Thank you! Tbh, any form of pulling work will have some carryover. Will it be as specific and translate perfectly? Typically, no.
Both movements are skills and foundational aspects of them that we train will carry over to each other, but just because someone can pull 500 on a trap doesn't mean they can pull 500 on a conventional BB deadlift! Plus, we could factor in other aspects, too, such as how one is built potentially better than the other etc.!
I've read that the average person pulls 10% less weight on a normal DL vs trap bar .
Just the question I wanted to ask!
Informative, informed, easy to understand, very personable.
I think Trap bar gets my lats more than conventional. Bringing the arms close to the side is a fuller squeeze then with arms in front, as the lats are stretched every so slightly more than if arms are at side. Part of the lats job is to adduct the arm. Conventional allows the shoulder to protract thertefore the lats arent in the tightest position.
This is anecdotal of course but its how it feels as i sit here squeezing from both positions.
Awrsome video. I LOVE THE TRAP BAR!!!
You nailed it with that context, imo! On that note, I think you get a bit more isometric work with Trap deads/farmers/or any neutral gripping exercises.
I feel like you notice this more with higher volume work, too!
Thanks for the note - I really appreciate you dropping your thoughts here! and thank you 💪
@@thatfitfriend Isometric as far as back stabilization? or...?
@@richardhorvatich yeah! Stabilizing throughout the concentric/eccentric to prevent torso flexion/keep the arms set!
@@thatfitfriend indeed. awesome point. I agree, from experience, somehow I find it superior to the conventional. My back stability is excellent on the Trap bar.. Similar with sumo as well.
@@richardhorvatich trap is so underrated, I was thinking about creating a video of all the diff uses it can have posterior focused pull, leg dominant pulls, RDLs, plyos, etc! Worth it, you think?
We are trap bar hype men 😂😂
Great information! Thanks! I would add one more difference and that is that the barbell DL is going to translate more readily to other barbell movements, which do provide more sport related benefits like the clean and snatch, both of which involve the barbell DL movement (with the snatch having a wider grip obviously). Thanks again and keep up the great work!
Thank you and love the addition! I appreciate you taking the time to add this point
Trap bar is the better one for lets say MMA fighters or boxers because you can also do trap bar jumps which will benifit in fight training
Being tall and older I use trap bar plus I use the the lower handle not the high it just feels safer for me at this stage in my life, I can do a barbell but trap is my personal choice. BTW new subscriber today me!!
Ayy! That’s awesome. Individualizing based on where you’re at. Name of the game!
Welcome and thank you!
If you're not going to squat and deadlift then do trap only IMO. Definitely pull from low handles if you can.
Honestly, I agree in a lot of ways. Plus, I think many neglect the skill acquisition component of those two movements and just move through the motions with them haphazardly at times. Low+high with intent behind each is a win win
How would you rank these for quads? Trap bar, leg press, squat, front squat and hack squat and bulgarian split squat? Really good video! :)
Eh, I wouldn't because I feel like that's a loaded question. For example, how you setup, execute, and are built can all influence how much "quad" each of these will give you.
Instead of ranking exercises straight out like that because I think that can build a bias, I'd instead look at it from a mindset of, "Okay, what are my current goals and how can this exercise feed into that?"
For ex, if your goal is solely on quad growth, then you may want to go with a variation that allows you to better isolate/load the quad without other things fatiguing and serving as limiters. A split squat may allow you to do this better than a front squat as the torso/core demands will be very different.
At the end of the day, I'd suggest plugging and playing to find what works best for you. My list is arbitrary because how we move will be different and I don't want my bias to get in the way of you look at this list of exercises :)
Thank you!
@@thatfitfriend okay. I would say my goal is to improve for soccer :)
Hey Jake is it normal that my legs aren’t sore the next day after doing trap bar deadlifts or any deadlifts for that matter, even if the movements are done correctly and the bar is heavy enough for me ? Is it working even if I’m not sore?
Holy cow, so sorry for missing this one! I never received the notification here.
Soreness can be a false indicator for what's being worked especially with bigger movements like the deadlift. Sensation =/= stimulation and that goes for when we feel and don't feel things.
What I would ask is, is your lift getting stronger? Does your lower back not feel blown up after your dead sessions? If you answered, yes and no, then I wouldn't sweat it too much!
If you ever need form help or want me to check out your pull, feel free to shoot me some vids for feedback via Instagram (@jake_boly).
Love the trap bar.
Great video. Honestly one of the most informative I’ve seen. Just a question tho Idk if I missed it or not. For trap bar what is the difference between holding it from the low and high position? Like do they work different muscles or?
Thank you! So the difference between a higher and lower handle setup will change hip position, which will then carryover to making the movement either a bit more leg dominant (low handle, closer hip position to a squat) or posterior focused with a higher handle (higher hip position, similar to a deadlift setup).
Both are solid to use! Your starting point in this case will help suggest what muscles will be worked slightly more - low, quad/leg focused \ high, quad/posterior!
There are nuances that exist between both, but those are the bigger callouts here!
@@thatfitfriend In your experience, which position is better for lifting more weight? Which is better for sports?
@@pingpongprince4256 Depends on the context of the sport, tbh, and the goals you're after.
If I had to generalize these asks though, then I'd say the trap bar is often a better tool for most athletes. It creates a slightly better blend of anterior/posterior muscle usage, you can manipulate your setups really easily to drive specific adaptations, and it's generally easier to teach and learn.
Plus, this variation tends to be easier for athletes to use when high-velocity performance output is the goal due to the neutral hand/arm position. For example, a trap bar's form generally carries over for protocols like PAP when you're adding box jumps etc.
What is hinge?
Also what do we do with our knees? Do we keep them absolutley straight the whole time?
Hip hinge!
Also, for what exercise? The variation performed will suggest knee positioning.
Hey Jake I will like to ask you, can I do both trap bar deadlift and barbell squats on the same day or should I seperate those workouts in different days?
It depends on the intensity/volume/goals of the session. There's no written rule where you can't perform both on the same day and you could definitely do so and be productive.
What I would suggest, though, is being conscious of your goals with each movement and understanding how your set/rep scheme can influence performance of each. For example, if your goal is top-end strength on both, then you'll likely realize that performance will be capped on the latter movement, but if the goals is something like general strength, skill work, hypertrophy etc. then you're prob fine doing both on the same day.
My advice, plug and play for a few weeks! See what works based on your goals.
I really only trap bar deadlifts. But I’m gonna incorporate both.
Do you pull more weight using the trap bar? Like if I can do 415 on dead lift bar, can you pull more on trap more?
Great question. Generally, folks will be able to pull more via the trap bar. There are a couple of reasons for this. 1) Tends to be a bit easier to master in regard to form/technique, 2) You'll have more anterior muscles assisting with strength so you'll get more quad action in trap bar pulls, and 3) for many, it's a much more anatomically-friendly position (AKA, easier for most to get in trap bar setups than BB deadlifts!).
Not always the case, of course, but that's often the way things go for many!
im tall and very glute and lowerback dominant to the detriment of quad and less so ham. hex bar feel much better because i dont need very heavy focus on lower back, plus the grip feel more natural and usefull. irl you really only pick up things like a zercher or like farmers walk, so deadlift is a weird movement that does not really have any rl application. why not just get much stronger in hex than deadlift?
I noticed for myself that my adductor and hamstring are less prone to injury when I use deadlift and squats instead of trapbar.
Good data to have, amigo!
Hey, i'm a lifter with long femurs and i've been struggling with squats. I've been thinking, if i replace squats with trap bar deadlift do you think i can get similar quad growth as long as i progress on it? I think that i will still do posterior chain dominant lifts like SLDLs and on squat days i might do trap bar deadlifts and barbell hack squats for quads instead. I really got frustrated with squatting and i'm now wondering of ways to work around them. What are your thoughts on that approach?
It really depends, you're not going to get the same eccentric stimulus with the trap bar, IMO, so to say they'd be exactly the same would be reckless on my end.
If the goal is hypertrophy, I would explore hack squats, leg presses (biasing your focus accordingly), and more isolated work. You definitely don't need to squat or trap bar deadlift to build the legs. Granted, using some low-handle trap bar deads would def not be a bad thing, I just don't think they'll be that effective for leg hypertrophy, and speaking of, I actually don't like back squats for pure lower hypertrophy either.
I also recently shared a video on folding over in the squat and how to limit it, which is something I have to constantly work on having longer femurs as well - that video may be of help for you!
Lmk if you have any additional questions!
@@thatfitfriend Thanks for responding! Your answer really made sense. Also, i'll certainly check that video out!
@@nidghogtzanoy5037 welcome! Always here as a resource if you need 💪
Can you simulate a squat with the Trap Bar Deadlift? I have mobility issues with my shoulders and it is hard to get a straight bar into position for a conventional low bar squat. I am not fond of the SSB it feels unbalanced and clunky. Thanks.
To an extent if you use a low-handle setup, you'll likely not get the same degree of an eccentric stimulus due to balance and trying to mitigate tempo while balancing the trap bar. That being said, you could experiment with them and see. IMO, there's likely a threshold in load which these can work better for this context and once you hit a certain weight you may find you that lose out on your abilities to load eccentrically!
@@thatfitfriend Thank you Jake. I’m 71 so loading real heavy is not an issue as I have shoulder issues after a bicycle accident and an unrelated back surgery which limits my mobility on the other end. Not to mention some arthritis. My solution so far has been leg presses, RDLs, and rack pulls for the Deadlift but squatting is another kettle of fish. Thanks again.
I'm struggling to get my head round hip positioning when squatting and deadlifts ie hips up or down when either using the trap bar or barbell
Can anyone help thanks
It's going to be individual based on your anatomy/execution. Hit me on IG with videos if you want me to take a quick look.
Outside of that, IMO, work with a coach for at least a block or two as that will help much more with understanding your individual needs than CZcams videos/comments!
Love that you didn't call either of them dangerous
Anyone that describes an exercise as dangerous without context is an ass, imo. Tbh, the people that call any form of deadlift dangerous are those that either can’t do them properly, can’t coach them, or have some severe gaps in knowledge in regard to context.
Great breakdown, Jake. I love how you approached this with simplicity but still providing enough of the necessary details.
Quick question. Would you say the strength/hypertrophy gains from using a trap bar for deadlift and safety squat bar for squats are similar to only using straight bars for the same exercises? I ask because it seems like trap bar deadlifts give some benefits of squats like you said in the video and SSB squats give some benefits of deadlifts.
Thank you for the feedback!
Honestly, it depends. I would ask, can those tools train the muscles you're trying to target as effectively as a straight bar or other machines/implements can? If so, then yeah, and it would definitely be worth exploring and there would probably be a good amount of carryover.
You're training similar(ish) movement patterns with each implement so there will likely be some carryover - how much would be dictated by the programming/utilization of each tool/bigger picture of your training.
The movement patterns and execution of each would also play a role in how much carryover would be taking place. For example, if you perform more hinge-y SSB squats, then you may get a little more carryover for the deadlift due to the slight bias toward posterior loading etc.!
Let me know if that makes sense!
@@thatfitfriend that makes a lot of sense and provides an awesome perspective! Thanks Jake!
I herniated 2 discs in my back and with the pre-existing fatigue from training my sport (bjj) I switched to trap bar and feel much much better
Combined with split squats and rdls I feel super super strong
@@dragoph hell yeah!
So I run a 3 day A/B full body split where one day I’m doing deadlifts and one day I’m doing squats. One week I’ll squat twice, the other I’ll deadlift twice. Up until now I’ve only been doing trap bar because it’s been easier for me to get back into training the deadlifting motion after 5 years and 100lbs gained. Now though I think I’m going to introduce doing barbell deadlifts every other B session while I’m running this 3 day split.
I want to build a balanced but strong lower body and I think incorporating both into my routine best suits my overall goal of restoring general athletic ability. I don’t compete anymore and I don’t plan to. I just want to be strong and physically capable since I work a physical trade. Eventually I’ll bump up to a 4 day push/pull split and I’ll be training each movement 1x a week. I’m still working myself up to it.
Awesome! Good strategy and worth the test to see how your body responds to the tweak in programming.
Some heavy RDLs can also be fantastic if you wanted a posterior biased barbell movement to play with outside deads.
Need help with technique. Can’t squat or straight bar deadlift without injuring my back
I'd highlyyyyy suggest finding a coach to work with in person, but if you'd like, shoot me a message on IG and I can give some general feedback!
I do both. Why not :D
What about a trap bar squat (on raised platform) vs back squats? 🙂
Depends on the goals! What are you trying to accomplish?
@thatfitfriend my goal is general fitness really. I have health issues and one knee is basically junk. hack, front & back squats, sumo, lunges, & split squats all hurt my bad knee, weirdly landmine squats don't, but I don't want to be just doing those. And as I live out in the countryside, I only have my home gym. 🙂
So would you say that using the lower handles and having the hips a bit lower, is essentially a barbell squat, and using the higher handles with higher hips (or lower handles but making your hips higher anyway), is essentially a barbell deadlift? (though a bit more chill with the hip hinge force required).
Then in the middle is a bit of both.
I'm 99% sure this is the case, but it would be cool to hear your thoughts on someone using the trap bar for both squats and deadlifts (then one could Romanian Deadlift with it, etc. but yea).
The context would be like, your average person looking to get the general benefits of doing squats and deadlifts. No strength sport competing, no other sports, doesn't care about barbells, no injuries.
One can do squats and deadlifts with dumbbells, so I imagine its essentially that.
I do full body workouts 3 times a week, so I think I would just pick one movement per day, and alternate them. I don't like having to warmup for multiple quite similar-ish exercises per workout, because that takes a while. Rather just warm up one movement and then do that for all my sets for that body part. What do you think of that?
Wait I like to alternate with my push and pull exercises in the workout to save time (1 minute between sets). With the squat movement pattern, I can then go into hamstring curls (or maybe a hip hinge movement). But with the deadlift movement pattern with a trap bar, that's like, both quad and hams... and it seems pretty even between the 2? so I guess that's just both sides done already? with barbell deadlift, that's posterior focused, and so one can then do squats if they wanted.
I think in both cases the quads might get more focus, (unless it's a RDL). Might be doing some hamstring curls either way, then it's just alternating extra quad work & hip hinge.
That got kind of long. I was organising my thoughts.
Really awesome video by the way!
If we're considering knee + hip flexion angles only and comparing them to squats/deads, then to an extent.
However, it's not super clean cut when programming for particular goals because there are skill components, anatomical differences that should be considered, and limiters with each. For example, will a low-handle trap bar dead replicate the same angles of your squat? Maybe, but can you perform as much or the same quality of volume with one over the other? This would then influence which to program. Ex, if your grip was a limiter before your legs were, then you'd likely have a volume cap with quality volume with a low-handle trap despite your lower body angles replicating a squat.
You could for sure use the trap and rotate variations per the day's goals, I would just say don't forget other variations that may actually work better for some contexts (ie: low-handle, leg development example above).
The quads will get more focus in both variations (high-low) due to the torso angle and hand positioning, but it's pretty easy to bias the posterior the trap bar!
My advice - plug and play with different variations per your block's goals and see what works best. IMO, you'll likely gravitate naturally towards different variations that suit your needs best without needing to overthink, just need some A/B testing!
@@thatfitfriend - Hell yea sounds awesome!
I saw a scale that put trap bar deadlifts very much in the deadlift camp, even more so than sumo. But I don't know how much of that is the movement pattern vs what muscles are being worked the most.
Because the movement pattern is more like a deadlift, but the muscles being worked the most is more like a squat.
So would you say that barbell deadlifts would compliment the trap bar deadlift? rather than squats. Because that's pretty funny having 2 different deadlifts complimenting each other for the anterior and posterior side of the body.
Oh, RDLs would be ideal it seems. Since the squads are already being fully taken care of by the trap bar deadlifts.
That sounds like a convenient and easy way to get both sides of the legs, etc.
I wonder how effective RDLs are with a trap bar... I suppose even if the weight isn't situated like a barbell deadlift, it's still a hip hinge and just a matter of weight or reps.
Oh you literally have a video on trap bar RDLs!
Using the band was interesting.
Well I'll definitely be trying out this route then, and see how it goes!
What is the best way to make progress with the overhead press? High reps low reps?
ehaney2215 good question, I’ve found doing 2x sessions a week with ohp using higher rep/moderate reps is a good balance. For ex, a 3x8-10 one day, then a 4x3-5 the other day. Also, adding lat delt raises 3x a week and a DB or Landmine press variation somewhere within the week!
Will do. Sounds good! Thank you!
ehaney2215 let me know if this structure helps after you’ve done it for a mesocycle!! You’re welcome
@@thatfitfriend OK thanks!
My femur is longer than my tibia, barbell DL makes my back more unstable than if I do it in trapbar
I greatly prefer trap bar deadlifts for general athletic ability. I don’t see a reason to even do regular deadlifts unless you compete. The risk / benefit / reward is so much better on the trap bar that even the army switched to it in their fitness tests
Will trap bar deadlift be more benefit for sumo deadlift than conventional?
If so high handle or low ?
捷邱揚 honestly, I wouldn’t worry about which is better per se, as the best way to improve sumo is to pull more sumo since it’s so highly technical.
If you’re weaker off the floor, then low might be better. Conversely, if mid-range/lockout is the struggle, then a high handle could be better! Structure accessory exercise selection based on specificity of the movement you want to perform in this case
Jake Boly thx man, I all do lower handle then 😘😘
But do trap bar dead lift build overall functional strength for like everyday lifting, wrestling or even lifting a person or objects? 🤔
@@thatfitfriend I am saying does the trap bar deadlift build overall functional strength like the barbell can it carry over to sports such as wrestling or grappling in general and also build strength to lift everyday objects or lift a person if you had to carry them to safety or something?
What's the difference between posterior and glutes?
Pretty much same, but you could get more granular with glutes if you want.
Trap bar for the win. You can do farmer carries with your deadlift.
Trap is soooo versatile!
Trap bar is essential for every gym!!!
It's a sin for gyms to not have a trap bar and safety squat bar, imo.
Is the trap bar good for weight loss.
It’s not not good! That’s a multifactorial question that is based on a lot of context and not just one exercise.
Which one in your opinion is easier to lift more weight?
Ha...man, this is an age-old debate too many go on about.
Trap will be typically easier for most folks. Easier to lift 500# on a trap than a conventional tug.
It's much more secure than the classic barbell deadlifts. Yes barbell deadlifts is secure if you do them right, but there is so much you can do wrong with this exercise and than it can really harm. Trap bar helps you to lower these risks. I combine trap bar deadlifts and walking dumbbell lunges (instead of squats).
So is there any definitive answer as to which one makes u stronger???? Like let's say one guy pulls 500 on straight bar and that's his ORM and another guy pulls the same thing on hex bar for ORM who would be considered stronger????
Haha, great question! If only it were that easy...this question has a lot of layers and there's a lot of contextual aspects that would go into deciding who would be the stronger one in this scenario.
Plus, we could factor in all of the different opinions that folks could have which could dictate who is "stronger" per their definitions. Is it the barbell deadlift athlete because that lift arguably requires more skill? Is it the trap bar deadlift athlete because they can move the weight faster? It's impossible to say without more information and a qualitative means of defining strength across the board. On top of that, how are we defining strength? Each lift is different with different mechanical demands!
So...to answer the question, it doesn't truly matter! If you're pulling 500 lbs on the trap or barbell, you're strong and your overall strength will be contextual per your goals for your pulling!
That is alot of different factors to think about 🤯🤯🤯 but for the regular gym guy that just wants to be strong and like working outwhich would you personally recommend ???
@@allenphillips7267 Haha, yeah, and that's why I think it's important to at least open up others to seeing the multi-factoral nature of this stuff. It's never really as simple as most want it be or seem, but we can create a means of digesting complex topics into a simpler means.
Tbh, Allen, both!
It's not a bad idea to practice both as they're both fantastic tools for building strength. If I had a gun to my head though and had to pick "one", then I'd likely go trap bar because you can bias them to be both anterior/posterior loaded and more posterior loaded by altering hip and knee mechanics! I have guides on both if you need further help with nailing form on these movements, too :)
@@thatfitfriend thx u man your the best 😀😀😀😀
As for me the deadlift to me is a complete rep. Trap bar feels more like the top range of the deadlift even at the beginning of movement its easier because I'm almost standing from the start just saying just me. Just sayin
Get a pump on my lower back really early when doing barbell deadlift.
Likely setup and execution related! If you ever want some assistance, don't be afraid to reach out via IG and I can help you out accordingly!
So if I trap bar deadlift, I can replace barbell deadlift and squat?
Depends on your training goals and other factors. It's not a 1=1 equation when it comes to exercise selection/replacement in this example.
If you're going after a deeper knee/hip ROM, then sure, you could swap in low-handle trap deads to see if they give you a similar stimulus to a squat, and you can try something similar with high-handle pulls with a higher hip position. However, it's worth noting, that it's kind of an apples to oranges comparison. There are a lot of factors to consider regarding goals and you'll have to experiment to see what you respond best with.
I used the trap bar deadlift (high gripp) two times a week for one year . I was expecting some grow on the leg muscles. Unfortunately it didn't. I didn't do other leg exercises besides 4 times a month leg extension and curls. I lifted up to 130 kg (286 lbs). What went wrong?
Poor programming.
@@thatfitfriend ok...give me a good link for a good programming please 🤣
@@thatfitfriend I guess there was no Squat etc involved?
@@scorpioman1964 hire a solid coach, honestly! Best thing you can do for making gains.
It’s impossible to say without more info. IMO, intensity, volume, and ROM of your movements are all big variables that I would spend more time objectively exploring.
@@thatfitfriend thx for your answers !
Trap bar is less dangerous because if our form break down, the risk is lesser thanks for the more upright stance
Nice video but disagree with one pint you made. For me the trap bar is nothing like a squat?
Thanks, man!
Are you performing them with a low handle setup? It’s not going to replicate a squat perfectly, but the joint angles/muscle recruitment in some ranges of motion can be similar if you alter mechanics to do so.
If you adapt a low handle setup, then you can usually get the lower body to somewhat resemble a squat pattern (it won’t be exactly the same). Your ability to create more of a squat pattern with a trap bar can vary greatly per your 1) anatomy, 2) execution, and 3) intent.
For example, you can perform low handle trap deads with a higher hip angle which will limit the amount of knee flexion which would then have you be more posterior dominant in your movement strategy. Conversely, if you sink the hips and move with more knee flexion, then you can hit similar-esque mechanics as the concentric of a squat through particular ROMs!
Hopefully that makes sense. It’s not intended to mean that they’re the same movement, but our execution can more or less create carryover for similar patterns/muscles recruited in low handle trap bar deads where we adapt greater levels of knee flexion to move the load
@@thatfitfriend good to have you reply and debate. This is why I don’t thinks it’s like a squat. 1. Squat you lower with muscles becoming tensioned, then stand up, trap bar the opposite. 2. Squat you go down to parallel, trap bar is far from this position. 3. The weight is supported with your back, not arms. For me the trap bar is a deadlift variation and a good way to lift heavier than conventional deadlift. However, is all good lifting. 👍😀
@@stevesedgwick5789 of course! This is how learning and understanding of different POVs happen.
1. Totally, but there are also squat variations that focus only on concentric force development such as pin squats, so a pattern is not always defined by a full range of motion moving through eccentric/concentric patterns.
2. A squat’s ROM is not a fixed thing, but a moving target. You can achieve a ton of different ROMs in squats and they’d all be called squats - whether you’re higher or not. If you have shorter arms etc. and use a low handle setup, then some folks will actually be in a more 90 degree position at the knees with this trap bar variant. Your anatomy may not allow this hence the bias!
3. The loading on the torso is different, sure, but how the weight is being moved is primarily by the legs in both variants.
I think it’s also important to understand how you’re defining squat or squat movement patterns. My definition comes from joint angles, muscle recruitment to execute the movements, and training outcomes. If you’re defining it by the parameters listed, then it makes sense as to why you categorize them as so 💪
@@thatfitfriend Good debate, let’s say we both have points
@@stevesedgwick5789 that we do and agreed 💪 loved this chat, btw. Much better and more productive than the traditional social media norm!
As much as I love the trap bar deadlift, the main reason I love it is in general it is much easier to do then the barbell deadlift. However, if we’re just talking about muscle growth overall, the barbell deadlift is much superior
Not true whatsoever
I'm going to switch from barbell conventional to Trap/Hex bar.
Both great tools. Use each pull per the goals/tasks at hand :)
Fucked my knee so here i am. No rows/dl for me without trap bar.
You’ll be back 🤝 good luck on recovery
outstanding explanation, without all the cutesy bro-attempts to be funny or cute.
Haha, I’ll take that 😂 thank you!
Trap bar leg drive
Barbell extension
Decent way to organize these exercises!
However, extension + leg drive are not mutually exclusive to only the trap + barbell deadlift, respectively. We can bias those patterns in each which opens up the ability to then program variations that work best per our goals + skill levels.
Trap bars for me are more safer and more comfortable and less stress on back
No wonder i always hated normal barbell deadlift. It's not normal!
So if I want bigger quads and ass then the trap bar is better?
There are a bunch of variables to consider in this context, but it could be a useful tool for driving a stimulus to these muscles in their shortened positions!
You were actually using the wrong form for the trap bar deadlift.The way u used it looked more like a squat.I bend my knees a whole lot less and just bend over to pick the weight up,focusing the movement more on my back and hamstrings,and yes,it works.Even better for ppl who have had back injuries and are not as comfortable pulling the weight up in front of their bodies.
Lol, there are multiple ways to do trap bar deads and if you take a higher hip/more posterior-dominant setup, then that’s cool, but “wrong form” is silly to say because it’s just a difference in intent and “why” you’re setting up as so.
You’re going for a posterior focus, I’m taking a more quad/balanced setup/position. Neither is wrong, just a difference in variation. I’d move away from calling things “wrong” just because you don’t perform them the same way.
@@thatfitfriend But you are calling this a trap bar deadlift when what you did was more of a trap bar squat,just like w Zircher squats and deadlifts.You are somewhat giving wrong advice bc with the proper form,it's an excellent deadlift for ppl w injuries and can still build true deadlift strength,and it is also comparable to a conventional deadlift - when one uses the proper form.So yeah,bc you are an influencer trying to compare before others on YT the conventional deadlift vs the trap bar deadlift,then u might want to actually go into a dead lift position and form to prove your point.You just basically compared a trap bar squat to a barbell deadlift.All you have to do is watch the difference bw your forms in your own vid.
@@brotherlittlefoot2216 smh, I’m not an influencer, lol
If you disagree with the content and how I approach this topic, that’s fine. I see where you’re coming from but we’re speaking on different ways of categorizing these.
Deadlift = picking up dead weight from the floor. You’re discussing categorizing movement by joint angles which is fine, but I don’t find that as productive.
Also, if you look at most vids on this topic they’re discussing similar differences as me regarding rep execution. You have a lot of videos to educate others on 😂
@@thatfitfriend but just not in squat position,which is why different forms workout different muscle groups - as you yourself explained.It's not a massive deal;it's just that I found the right deadlift for me after years of injuries and came to this vid to see how it compares.I didn't see a fair comparison;that's all.Won't be a bother again...Mr. "smh".Me,too,brother,lol.
@@brotherlittlefoot2216 👍👍
Trap bar is much better for novices with no knowledge and technique
As he squats with the trap bar. 😂 come on man.
Make your own video, bro. Educate us big man
@@thatfitfriend TONS of science and literature out there. I understand why people teach the trap bar though. It's much easier to coach and let the coach get away with knowing less and while it mimics the deadlift. It's still mechanically different. But the regular client will never understand this.
@@M3vilDaygo I love intermediate lifters still in the “need to be right phase”. Find that’s often the demo with the most criticisms on content like this. You see it your way and lack the depth to understand that’s not the only POV/take to have.
Missing the forest for the trees, my dude.
Anywho, thanks for taking the time to watch the video, get riled up, then come read comments to give the video more view duration. Really helps the channel grow 🤝
@@thatfitfriend you said a lot of nothing in your response other than putting me down to uplift yourself. You train CZcams watchers. I train athletes who actually have to perform in competitions. But sure. 😂
But i get it man. It's easier to get likes and views with something like this and you gotta make money. Teaching the deadlift technique is very difficult.
You understand the psychology of most clients. The ones who don't care about performance, the ones who want to avoid difficulty. They just want to feel good.
You sound like those guys who sell index universal life insurance.
@@M3vilDaygo you’re upset because you categorize the traditional trap bar deadlift differently than me because you’re focused on joint angles and mechanics.
Great, cool. Sick.
The trap bar deadlift in this video is how most lifters know it, understand it, and perform it.
Why would I go against how most people know it? The population this video is designed for dont likely GAF about your argument and categorization here.
If I wanted to talk about specifics like you are I would make a separate video with the intent of reaching a different population.
The fact you don’t understand this is literally proving my point.
It also further highlights the disconnect some lifters and coaches have from reality and coaching clients in the real world. Very few GAF about your need to right on specifics that don’t matter for most lifters.
Time and place. There’s an audience for your points, but that’s not who this video was built for. Come down off your soap box, lol, or make a video yourself and make your points known. Idgaf about your conceptualization here.
I can't believe Americans put a microwave above their hob.
The key takeaways from this vid 😅🤝
Whoa. You are NOT doing a Trap Bar Dealift. That’s a Trap Bar Hack Squat.
You’re doing a Trap Bar Hack Squat because you initiating movement upright posture with butt tucked and driving through the heels like you do with a squat. The focus your legs, mostly quads. You do not hinge at the hips but drive with your heels.
I prefer it to the Barbell Hack Squat, we’re you load the bar behind your knees and stand. since you don’t hang up on your hammies because since youre in the opening.
An actual Trap Bar Deadlift uses the same position as a Deadlift, with butt out and chest high. The form includes a high chest. This forces you to initiate movement by lifting your hips before hinging, making it glute and hammie dominant. It’s a DL alternative for people with lower back issues since you don’t have to drag the bar along your shins which can aggravate some lifter’s lower backs. It targets. the same muscles as the standard (or Russian) DL, though I fing more glute dominant with less hamstring activation.
Ok
trap bar dl is closer to a dl than a sumo based on hip mechanics. yw.
Ain’t no one talking about sumo 😂
he is right