Totally depends on the context and the band. Do i wanna see AC/DC or ZZ Top play to a grid with backing tracks? Nope. Can i understand why progressive metal bands with switching time signatures and extras like keys/samples use tracks live, yes.
The problem I find is that since a lot of big bands use these tricks and elements, smaller bands are forced to adopt said systems because if they don't they will endlessly be criticized by fans and listeners who know no better since they think the big bands are "perfect." I see it all the time even way back "oh wow they sound nothing like the record" or "they're a studio band." Some acts can replicate their record, but these are usually the big guys who can afford to hire countless session back up singers and instrumentalists. Just don't expect to see your local symphonic metal band bringing a live orchestra to their thursday dive bar gig.
That's a really thought provoking take on that. It's almost similar to how customers get completely accustomed to buying from amazon and most other business can't compete that level of convenience no matter what additional value or 'soul' they add. And it inadvertently creates poor long term incentives and experience for the customer.
@@effectosis742 There doesn’t need to be a movement. Backing tracks are well known for years now / decades now. Won’t do anything. Audiences have been spoiled.
This channel seems like a great resources for upcoming music entertainers to learn firsthand insights on the business and production side of things. Plus you’re a charismatic speaker. I subscribed.
Slipknot says they don't use any tracks or click, last time I saw them they screwed up a song stopped and started the song again whichI thought was cool to see such a big band and production do that
He's not even my favourite artist and I too can name a handful of artists from all decades in fact whose music I prefer to listen to, but Prince was the best. The Godfather might not be my favourite film, but it's the best. Prince could do all of it, to an impossibly high standard. Sing, write, dance, play, compose, perform, branding, marketing, interviews, story telling etc etc etc. He was the benchmark and all your favourite 60s and 70s acts would probably agree. Prince is your favourite musician's favourite musician. @@Darrenski
Maybe we all should just support our local scene more and experience true live performances instead of going to these giant shows where there are crowd barriers every 20 metres and you only see the performance on a big LED screen anyway. Of course its ok that all the music is just backing tracks, because it doesnt matter when the band can't connect with the audience and vice versa. Audience is just standing there listening and the band is just acting to feel anything, when theyre on the road for half a year playing the same songs every night.
Definitely! I think local bands are beginning to realize that although they definitely can't compete with the production and spectacle of touring acts, they have an ability to have intimate and personal connection that the bigger just can't realistically do.
Starting at 9:50 - this is a problem, and the problem is the audience. We’ve collectively become so entitled to perfect performances and endlessly harp on mistakes when we hear them at shows that fewer and fewer acts want to risk anything imperfect that might end up on CZcams. It’s sad. “Oh yeah? You don’t like mistakes in our live show? Ok, now you get a show that is barely live at all instead.” That’s been the general evolution over the last decade or two. If people go to a show and don’t hear a single note out of place, everyone should wonder if it was too good to be true, it probably was, and audiences should care. Industrial, hip hop, stuff like that, not a huge deal. Something being passed off as “live rock music”? Again, sad.
Yeah, it's like a desensitizing that's happened, which frankly mirrors what's happening in instagram, porn, and really most all content. It's like we get so used to impossibly perfect that our brains have a difficult seeing anything that isn't inhumanly 'shiny.' That being said, I think there will always be a portion of consumers that feel the same way as you do and creators that are willing to sacrifice some success to maintain their artistic values. Thanks!
@@babywolfsounds Agreed. I am one of those “creators” I suppose! Stopped using autotune a couple years ago, minimal editing, maybe I’m just old 👴🏻 but thank you and well-said!
I'm a full time busker for 19 years exclusively and as a hobby since 1977. 5 watt amps that I power with a 5200 mAh RC car battery for guitar and a microphone. My system is going on 5 years old and ready to be retired. I play at Seahawks, Mariners, Sounders, FC Reign, and Sea Dragons among many variable locations. I even had a public access TV show for 6 and 1/2 years. Little LEDs on USB port batteries and the concert is set for a five hour set of whatever I want to play. I remember EQing a room with 24 bands per channel. I got to where I could tell which one was feeding back by the pitch and could nail that 1 in 48 chance every time. Now I do the sports and beaches and fairs but mostly I play outside of a Cannabis store in Auburn Washington where I assist them with the numerous security issues they face each day. I also have 37 assists or captures of criminals and got named a superhero by a radio station in Seattle after I made a global donation of an industrial upgrade worth over 60 billion by now. I've changed the world, exactly as Frank Herbert and a think tank group trained me to do, a total of 8 times, some bigger than others. All without being rich and famous. Once you can throw the desire to please everyone to the back of the bus, you free yourself up to do it your way but, only if your way makes enough to suit your financial needs. I haven't even tapped into the possibilities of the Internet yet. I love what I'm doing now but realize I can't go in busking in the streets forever. If your serious, I watched this entire videos and I know when someone can talk the talk, but plenty of this talk sounds like it comes from experience. There are people that pay college professors to teach some of what is in this video. I'll you know the walk too.
Definitely can believe that. Prog culture is pretty interesting in that both the fans and musicians really esteem the musical talent often over the 'spectacle'
As someone that grew up in numerous music scenes and playing live this makes me really sad. Maybe bands wouldn’t need to do this bullshit live if they stop relying on studio tricks for their album performance. Best example I could give I saw Plini live and they sounded great of course. Plenty of backing tracks to give the feel of the albums then halfway through the set the MacBook dies. That second half of the show was pure magic. You could see them connecting with eachother. Playing as a full band instead of playing to an in ear click. Magical things happen in those spaces when you have amazing musicians. The connection between the bands and crowd was so much stronger after that too. I hate that rock and metal has gone pop. I want to hear the soul of the musician not the strength of processing power.
Totally man, it's almost become like makeup and photoshop or mcdonalds. We've slowly become desensitized because humanity has gotten really competent at making things shiny and sparkly and 'larger than life.' And for most people that will be what they're drawn to. But like you, there's always people out there who are willing to pursue the beautiful chaos of human creativity and the magic that can only be found in it :)
Oh, I didn't know that. I know a few artists who have protested miming their music. The chili peppers once all switched instruments and intentionally didn't plug them in silent protest :)
Okay. why would you need backing tracks during sound check? Sound check is for the instruments that need sound adjustment and active mixing not pre-recorded already tweaked sound. Judging from the comments so far despite your best efforts people still have the impression that every situation is thw worst case and that no band uses any of it in any reasonable way which is why the use of it is more hidden. Nobody dares touch the subject (except Ronnie Radke) because the default reaction, especilly for those who aren't technically minded is that it is all bad and everyone is being lied to. "Played by a computer"? Well no the vocals are usually done by the lead vocalist and the guitar by the guitar player not a computer (played back on a computer yes like a tape machine no difference). If your guitar player shreds like a maniac but sings like a dying goat you're going to do background vocals at a minimum. I call BS on people who say modern music would sound just fine live without all of that in every case. Fans would bitch 100% guaranteed. Not everyone is okay with a stripped down version of their favorite song that's just a reality. Maybe if you are doing old Stepenwolf covers but modern stuff with what fans demand? Most of the time no. When bands play festivals they have even less control over real time effects on things through FOH like delay and reverb than they do when it's their gear and they are headlining. I get some people are on gaurd for people scamming them in life in general but if a four piece band are playing their instruments on stage and they have maybe a recorded intro and some backup vocals (not even all of them that are on the record) like one band in particular you showed and someone in the audience complains about that I would say don't be a snowflake. That is a far cry from having someone up there who looks like they are playing but aren't. By that standard you shoul;d swear off all studio recordings which don't have a one to one relationship with parts to musicians in the band which means you listen to almost nothing but Polka. Like it or not it's the same thing, the same expectation. I did show production and played drums professionally from the late 70s to the early 90s. If you don't think some of the older bands from then didn't take the risk and the technical difficulty of bringing a reel to reel machine on the road think again. I saw it happen. Even the ones with money weren't always willing to spend money on extra musicians to do things like horn parts which were used on maybe two songs. I even sang backups from the FOH position multiple times. Nobody knew where the part was coming from but it was there. Guaranteed if in-ears and DAWs were available then you would have had the same situation for the same reasons. Music is FAR more complicated now that you can have 100+ tracks in a DAW and again I call BS on people who say they would be okay with the bands throwing it all out. No. In most cases you wouldn't.
Hell yeah brother. That’s cool to hear what happened out on the road before we had all the cheap tools available to us now a days. Thx for the perspective
A click to sync up to a light show is one thing. Pretending to play and sing is,,,,, FAKE. People, these days, seem totally ok pretending about anything. If you are entertained by a hologram of a band, good for you. More gooder for the producer....
Led Zeppelin or hendrix never needed any of this bs. Another reason why modern music is garbage. The only ppl who think modern music is good are young ppl who don't know any better and have no knowledge of 60s 70s and even 80s bands. Modern music is dire. There's nothing organic about it and even studio produced stuff is lame. Its tuneless, derivitive rubbish. They have lost touch with the basics and that has been the downfall of music and why anyone with any maturity or taste simply cannot stand modern music, and thats even without all their revolting sell out antics and all their little nods and winks and hand gestures and symbolism. Never in human history has music been worse and coincidentally it has never been less human.
yeah, yeah, grass was greener, serious boomer vibes 👌🏻 Zeppelin or Hendrix were good for their time and style. there has never been more publicly available music than now, plenty of underground bands, plenty of bands that keep it raw and keep experimenting, reinventing themselves. plenty of talent out there. you could go find them, support and enjoy what they do, but it sounds like you’re too lazy and scared to discover something yourself that was not force fed you like Zeppelin and Hendrix were by major labels, radio stations that have been playing the same 4 songs of theirs for 40 years, etc. All art is derivative to a certain extent btw, do your research.
As long as guitars are live(on top). Lead Vocals are live, and drums are live, I'm okay with all the rest. Enhancing sound with layers is fine by me
Totally depends on the context and the band. Do i wanna see AC/DC or ZZ Top play to a grid with backing tracks? Nope. Can i understand why progressive metal bands with switching time signatures and extras like keys/samples use tracks live, yes.
The problem I find is that since a lot of big bands use these tricks and elements, smaller bands are forced to adopt said systems because if they don't they will endlessly be criticized by fans and listeners who know no better since they think the big bands are "perfect." I see it all the time even way back "oh wow they sound nothing like the record" or "they're a studio band." Some acts can replicate their record, but these are usually the big guys who can afford to hire countless session back up singers and instrumentalists. Just don't expect to see your local symphonic metal band bringing a live orchestra to their thursday dive bar gig.
That's a really thought provoking take on that. It's almost similar to how customers get completely accustomed to buying from amazon and most other business can't compete that level of convenience no matter what additional value or 'soul' they add. And it inadvertently creates poor long term incentives and experience for the customer.
There should be an "exposing movement" to make music and performance great again ! I prefer hearing mistakes than fake playing .
@@effectosis742 There doesn’t need to be a movement. Backing tracks are well known for years now / decades now. Won’t do anything. Audiences have been spoiled.
This is why I really appreciated Metric unplugging and singing a song a capella in the middle of their set.
This channel seems like a great resources for upcoming music entertainers to learn firsthand insights on the business and production side of things. Plus you’re a charismatic speaker. I subscribed.
You're so kind brother, thank you. I enjoy your work as well, thanks for connecting us up
Slipknot says they don't use any tracks or click, last time I saw them they screwed up a song stopped and started the song again whichI thought was cool to see such a big band and production do that
last time I checked, they had NINE band members as a normal lineup. that should suffice.
I like this video format. MORE!
Ah good, another reiteration to me of why Prince was in fact the best.
Right ? ❤ the one and only
Lol. Yeah sure whatever. He's not even close to being the best. There are countless 60s and 70s acts that piss all over prince
He's not even my favourite artist and I too can name a handful of artists from all decades in fact whose music I prefer to listen to, but Prince was the best. The Godfather might not be my favourite film, but it's the best. Prince could do all of it, to an impossibly high standard. Sing, write, dance, play, compose, perform, branding, marketing, interviews, story telling etc etc etc. He was the benchmark and all your favourite 60s and 70s acts would probably agree. Prince is your favourite musician's favourite musician. @@Darrenski
Maybe we all should just support our local scene more and experience true live performances instead of going to these giant shows where there are crowd barriers every 20 metres and you only see the performance on a big LED screen anyway. Of course its ok that all the music is just backing tracks, because it doesnt matter when the band can't connect with the audience and vice versa. Audience is just standing there listening and the band is just acting to feel anything, when theyre on the road for half a year playing the same songs every night.
Definitely! I think local bands are beginning to realize that although they definitely can't compete with the production and spectacle of touring acts, they have an ability to have intimate and personal connection that the bigger just can't realistically do.
Starting at 9:50 - this is a problem, and the problem is the audience. We’ve collectively become so entitled to perfect performances and endlessly harp on mistakes when we hear them at shows that fewer and fewer acts want to risk anything imperfect that might end up on CZcams. It’s sad.
“Oh yeah? You don’t like mistakes in our live show? Ok, now you get a show that is barely live at all instead.” That’s been the general evolution over the last decade or two.
If people go to a show and don’t hear a single note out of place, everyone should wonder if it was too good to be true, it probably was, and audiences should care. Industrial, hip hop, stuff like that, not a huge deal. Something being passed off as “live rock music”? Again, sad.
Yeah, it's like a desensitizing that's happened, which frankly mirrors what's happening in instagram, porn, and really most all content. It's like we get so used to impossibly perfect that our brains have a difficult seeing anything that isn't inhumanly 'shiny.' That being said, I think there will always be a portion of consumers that feel the same way as you do and creators that are willing to sacrifice some success to maintain their artistic values. Thanks!
@@babywolfsounds Agreed. I am one of those “creators” I suppose! Stopped using autotune a couple years ago, minimal editing, maybe I’m just old 👴🏻 but thank you and well-said!
I'm a full time busker for 19 years exclusively and as a hobby since 1977.
5 watt amps that I power with a 5200 mAh RC car battery for guitar and a microphone.
My system is going on 5 years old and ready to be retired.
I play at Seahawks, Mariners, Sounders, FC Reign, and Sea Dragons among many variable locations.
I even had a public access TV show for 6 and 1/2 years.
Little LEDs on USB port batteries and the concert is set for a five hour set of whatever I want to play.
I remember EQing a room with 24 bands per channel. I got to where I could tell which one was feeding back by the pitch and could nail that 1 in 48 chance every time.
Now I do the sports and beaches and fairs but mostly I play outside of a Cannabis store in Auburn Washington where I assist them with the numerous security issues they face each day.
I also have 37 assists or captures of criminals and got named a superhero by a radio station in Seattle after I made a global donation of an industrial upgrade worth over 60 billion by now.
I've changed the world, exactly as Frank Herbert and a think tank group trained me to do, a total of 8 times, some bigger than others.
All without being rich and famous.
Once you can throw the desire to please everyone to the back of the bus, you free yourself up to do it your way but, only if your way makes enough to suit your financial needs.
I haven't even tapped into the possibilities of the Internet yet. I love what I'm doing now but realize I can't go in busking in the streets forever.
If your serious, I watched this entire videos and I know when someone can talk the talk, but plenty of this talk sounds like it comes from experience.
There are people that pay college professors to teach some of what is in this video.
I'll you know the walk too.
Thank you much brother, that's very kind
Such a great video! Thanks for sharing 👏🏻 Also, this editing is 🔥🔥🔥
I toured with a few progressive rock bands. No trickery there at all .
Definitely can believe that. Prog culture is pretty interesting in that both the fans and musicians really esteem the musical talent often over the 'spectacle'
As someone that grew up in numerous music scenes and playing live this makes me really sad. Maybe bands wouldn’t need to do this bullshit live if they stop relying on studio tricks for their album performance.
Best example I could give I saw Plini live and they sounded great of course. Plenty of backing tracks to give the feel of the albums then halfway through the set the MacBook dies. That second half of the show was pure magic. You could see them connecting with eachother. Playing as a full band instead of playing to an in ear click.
Magical things happen in those spaces when you have amazing musicians. The connection between the bands and crowd was so much stronger after that too. I hate that rock and metal has gone pop. I want to hear the soul of the musician not the strength of processing power.
Totally man, it's almost become like makeup and photoshop or mcdonalds. We've slowly become desensitized because humanity has gotten really competent at making things shiny and sparkly and 'larger than life.' And for most people that will be what they're drawn to. But like you, there's always people out there who are willing to pursue the beautiful chaos of human creativity and the magic that can only be found in it :)
Mike Oldfield insisted on being live on the top of the pops otherwise he said he wouldn't perform.
Oh, I didn't know that. I know a few artists who have protested miming their music. The chili peppers once all switched instruments and intentionally didn't plug them in silent protest :)
Destruction of the demi gods. Just a different industry. Sponsored.
Okay. why would you need backing tracks during sound check? Sound check is for the instruments that need sound adjustment and active mixing not pre-recorded already tweaked sound. Judging from the comments so far despite your best efforts people still have the impression that every situation is thw worst case and that no band uses any of it in any reasonable way which is why the use of it is more hidden. Nobody dares touch the subject (except Ronnie Radke) because the default reaction, especilly for those who aren't technically minded is that it is all bad and everyone is being lied to.
"Played by a computer"? Well no the vocals are usually done by the lead vocalist and the guitar by the guitar player not a computer (played back on a computer yes like a tape machine no difference). If your guitar player shreds like a maniac but sings like a dying goat you're going to do background vocals at a minimum. I call BS on people who say modern music would sound just fine live without all of that in every case. Fans would bitch 100% guaranteed. Not everyone is okay with a stripped down version of their favorite song that's just a reality. Maybe if you are doing old Stepenwolf covers but modern stuff with what fans demand? Most of the time no.
When bands play festivals they have even less control over real time effects on things through FOH like delay and reverb than they do when it's their gear and they are headlining. I get some people are on gaurd for people scamming them in life in general but if a four piece band are playing their instruments on stage and they have maybe a recorded intro and some backup vocals (not even all of them that are on the record) like one band in particular you showed and someone in the audience complains about that I would say don't be a snowflake. That is a far cry from having someone up there who looks like they are playing but aren't. By that standard you shoul;d swear off all studio recordings which don't have a one to one relationship with parts to musicians in the band which means you listen to almost nothing but Polka. Like it or not it's the same thing, the same expectation.
I did show production and played drums professionally from the late 70s to the early 90s. If you don't think some of the older bands from then didn't take the risk and the technical difficulty of bringing a reel to reel machine on the road think again. I saw it happen. Even the ones with money weren't always willing to spend money on extra musicians to do things like horn parts which were used on maybe two songs. I even sang backups from the FOH position multiple times. Nobody knew where the part was coming from but it was there. Guaranteed if in-ears and DAWs were available then you would have had the same situation for the same reasons. Music is FAR more complicated now that you can have 100+ tracks in a DAW and again I call BS on people who say they would be okay with the bands throwing it all out. No. In most cases you wouldn't.
Hell yeah brother. That’s cool to hear what happened out on the road before we had all the cheap tools available to us now a days. Thx for the perspective
THIS VIDEO MADE KISS RETIRE!!
and the earth is flat!!!!
A click to sync up to a light show is one thing. Pretending to play and sing is,,,,, FAKE. People, these days, seem totally ok pretending about anything. If you are entertained by a hologram of a band, good for you. More gooder for the producer....
Led Zeppelin or hendrix never needed any of this bs. Another reason why modern music is garbage. The only ppl who think modern music is good are young ppl who don't know any better and have no knowledge of 60s 70s and even 80s bands. Modern music is dire. There's nothing organic about it and even studio produced stuff is lame. Its tuneless, derivitive rubbish. They have lost touch with the basics and that has been the downfall of music and why anyone with any maturity or taste simply cannot stand modern music, and thats even without all their revolting sell out antics and all their little nods and winks and hand gestures and symbolism. Never in human history has music been worse and coincidentally it has never been less human.
yeah, yeah, grass was greener, serious boomer vibes 👌🏻 Zeppelin or Hendrix were good for their time and style. there has never been more publicly available music than now, plenty of underground bands, plenty of bands that keep it raw and keep experimenting, reinventing themselves. plenty of talent out there. you could go find them, support and enjoy what they do, but it sounds like you’re too lazy and scared to discover something yourself that was not force fed you like Zeppelin and Hendrix were by major labels, radio stations that have been playing the same 4 songs of theirs for 40 years, etc. All art is derivative to a certain extent btw, do your research.