Just so YOU know, THIS constitutes 'Live' in 2024
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- čas přidán 31. 07. 2024
- On the agenda tonight we're taking a look at Dua Lipa and Cyndi Lauper from this year's Glastonbury Festival!
Original Videos - • Cyndi Lauper - I Drove...
• Dua Lipa - Houdini (Gl...
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Intro
1:27 Dua Lipa (Headline)
1:49 Playing the Studio Version with Live Performance
2:31 The Band (Aesthetics?)
4:07 Getting the Live Vocal Feed
4:36 Multiple Vocals
4:57 This is 'Live' in 2024
5:49 Safety in Numbers!
8:58 It's a VERY Blurred Line!
10:04 Cyndi Lauper (The OLD 'Live')
11:22 How 'Live' ALWAYS Drifts Without a Click
12:49 Things That Can Happen!
14:26 Backing Track Advantages
15:22 Things Happen Live!
16:30 Singing Fully Live is HARD!
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Hi Everyone. Just wanted to chime in and say a big THANK YOU to everyone who’s replied to my original comment on the subject that the OG Phill posted in this episode. A big thank you to you Phill for the great work you do and the way in which you do it. You’re so non-judgemental, (unlike myself 😅) on the subject and you do a great job in educating me personally. Our industry needs more people like you and we’re all of us lucky to have you. I didn’t see anything from you in my IG DM’s which is okay but just letting you know once agin that you have an open invitation to chat and exchange views via FaceTime as I’m sure there are some who my question that it’s actually me.
As I mentioned above, I wanted to thank all of you that have replied to my original comment. You’ve all said the nicest things about me and I’m humbled. Sorry I haven’t responded to each of you individually but I just wanted you to know that I’ve acknowledged all of your views in response and that I appreciate you all took the time to do so. It’s seems that as a whole we’re in collective agreement with regard to the integrity of this art form that we’re all so privileged to be a part of, no matter the capacity or level in which we do so. I know that I have been so lucky to have found my purpose very early on in music and I’d even go as far as to say that I don’t think I would’ve made it through life if it hadn’t found me. The wonderful accolades I’ve been fortunate to experience in this journey have all been nice, don’t get me wrong but when all’s said and done, it’s the ‘journey’, the hard graft, the low points that seemed like failing at the time are what I hold closest to my heart.
So I guess it’s down to us now to keep fighting the good fight. No we’re not neurosurgeons or curing cancer but we are in our own way healing the world through our music. Here’s to ‘US’ and never giving up in our quest to preserve the integrity of our beloved art form.
-Seal
I've sent over a message via Instagram 🙂
Seal?! As if!! I am 71 now, and you are still one of my all-time favourite artists. Thank you so much for the joy you have given me and many others.
@@bobfrankish8883 Aww 🥰 thank you Brother. It’s feedback like the one you give that in turn gives me the reason to continue making and performing music. ✌🏾&💜
Sir?! thank you for not only for the art you create and created...but also the courage to defend that "art".. I love your work! ❤
The only reason i questioned if it was you was your channel is empty, I was assuming there would be something of you there, which would be nice.
Hi Brother, this is Seal here, (recording artist) and I just want to say a big thank you for what you’re doing. You’re very diplomatic/politically correct when breaking down these performances ….much more so than I 🤬😂.
The reality is that the bar is way lower than that of my generation of singers and those who came before me, those whom I looked up to. I often ask myself the question, if I was starting out today would I aspire to be like the artists in this video given what we all know of their performances? The answer is a resounding NFW!!
When I was coming up, my heroes were Marvin, Stevie, Joni, Carol. That was the bar then. So it’s really difficult for me to respect any of what I hear coming from these artists today both in terms of live performance AND actual song writing which is a whole other subject entirely.
When I was recording my earlier records such as the ones with Kiss From A Rose, Crazy, Love’s Divine etc, auto tune existed but we just didn’t use it as it was frowned upon by my mentor the great Trevor Horn who made me sing it over and over again until I got the fkn thing right. Then he’d make me stack up my harmonies eight times per harmony! So give me flat or sharp notes in a live performance any day over some homogenised, lifeless pitch-corrected version. I just don’t understand the point of faking it live. Where’s the artistry?
Where’s the challenge?
Where’s the understanding of history?
Where’s the f****ing dignity and artistic self-respect??
Anyway, end of rant
-Seal
Wait, it's you? I remember Kiss from a Rose. Great song. I also agree with everything you've said.
Perfectly stated, thank you.
Absolutely correct, wonderfully said, by the way I love your music!!!
I think its because image and followers first , then fix the rest later.
@@MG53v8Honestly I just don’t know what it is and I really don’t wanna sound like one of those ‘oh back in my day’ types but recently some well known rappers came up to my home in LA where I have a studio. They wanted me to do a a-hmm ‘top line’ on something they were making. Now I’m always flattered whenever someone wants me to work with them as collaboration has always been my favourite aspect of music. So I came up with something that I actually thought was okay but not great, anyway I digress. They were happy with it so then I decided to do what I do when approaching my own music which was to;
1. Sing the line until I got one pass right. That means in tune, in time, correct phrasing and most importantly right emotion and feel.
2. Start adding the first of a three part harmony to the main line. Once I got the first harmony right which involved matching the main line and singing it in tune, I then muted the main line and started singing three more passes to the new harmony line, each time muting the previous attempt so that they don’t all stack up while I’m doing them. This way you avoid getting sloppy and you’re best able to maintain critical accuracy.
3. I then repeated the process for the other two harmonies.
When I’d completed, I looked over and they were completely gobsmacked and couldn’t if their lives depended on it, figure out why I just didn’t get the computer, ie melodime or whatever it’s called to just automatically spit out the harmonies based off of the original lead line I sang!!
To me it was another day at the office because that’s the way I was taught. That’s the way you make ‘RECORDS’ that hopefully withstand the test of time so that when the listener listens to said record for the 100th time, they hear something on the recording that they never heard before.
That artform seems all but lost and my heart sinks 😢. I’m not saying this because I’m trying to boast about my work ethic, I’m a very good singer, not great in my opinion. I’m saying this because that’s how ‘WE ALL MADE RECORDS’ when I started out! The recording studio was hallowed ground and you had to earn the respect of your piers to be in it!!
Now people make ‘beats’ in a fkn laptop and call themselves producers when most of them couldn’t produce a blow-**b in a brothel!! Gimme a break 🤬
That same laziness and instant gratification is inherent in the live performance. Why sing it in tune when you can use autotune live?
Sorry for the rant. 😅
Thanks for that. I'm the bass guitarist and MD in Cyndi's band and I can at least tell you that we had a LOT of monitor issues at Glasto.
But yes, everything we played and sang was 100% live.
we could all see that and all credit to you , i personally enjoyed the set nontheless
@weedywet and all power to you and the band for working through that. Seems to have been an issue for quite a few at Glasto this year. That said, I’d still rather get an imperfect live performance than a ‘playback’ with barely anything live happening. That’s how we learnt and got better! I feel sorry for anyone that hasn’t experienced a proper ‘live’ concert.
Are you going to play with her on the final tour? Can't wait to see it live.
It is so obviously live and all the better for it.
I saw her at RAH and I loved it!
It was one big party and I really really love her.
Amazing that the women whose voices have gone through aging, illness, lifestyle challenges, etc., are the ones CHOOSING to do it authentically. Thanks again, Fil!
Forgot throat cancer in cyndi's case.
@RetroQueenGamer
Pretty sure that throat cancer counts as an illness.
I just keep hearing Prince saying “real music by real musicians” in my head over and over again.
Legendary quote from an absolute legend in every way
Same!
❤
Back in the day you went to live concerts because you wanted to get a different take on each performance. That was part of the fun of it. It's what you couldn't hear on the radio. Extended versions, amazing guitar or drum solos, raw emotion. People don't know what they are missing. I saw Santana, Chicago, Kiss, Deep Purple, Elvis and more all in the mid 70's through early 80's and they were worth every penny.
Totally agree. Those bands that just played it exactly like the record were criticised. We, the audience wanted it real and a new take.
ABSOLUTELY!!! When I was a kid I used to think live albums were awful because they didn't sound exactly like what I was used to (the studio versions) but thankfully I very quickly came to appreciate the differences in sound, both subtle and profound and now prefer live recordings for the most part! And that was the exact reason to go to a concert, to see how the artists were presenting material they'd now been exercising on the road. For sure!
That's because you were listening to rock bands and not trashy pop music. You're not going to find this from most of the acts playing at, say, Wacken Open Air, because in the worlds of rock and metal, the skill of the instrumentalists is every bit as important as the vocals.
@@mikedtw Oh, I did love live albums because well back then without a "safety net" you got to hear maybe a missing word or usually the beat was almost always so much faster than the original it lent itself to me just feeling as if i was there - which from 10years old or so I was there & I've the albums though no turntable which with what's out today is much needed in my home. 75 years old, am a singer (not active) I'll pick up my hairbrush mic. Wait, I have real mics now. lol
And penny's they were. I once saw ZZ TOP, Blue Oyster Cult, Savoy Brown, Billy Preston, and Deep Purple for $6.00 advanced $6.50 day of the show. I recently found the ticket, it's why I remembered .
Cyndi Lauper = Talent. Dua Lipa = Marketing
Except Dua can actually sing and youre objectively wrong if you think otherwise. Listen to her Live Spotify sessions album and if you think she cant sing then youre deaf
What a management team decides to do at a live show doesn't equate to what the performer is capable of. Like the guy above said, watch her smaller live performances on CZcams
To say Dua Lipa is marketing is ignorant. Cyndi was probably more marketed coming out than just about anyone in the 1980s. She was not your typical pop singer so they had to push an image for stations to even play her. They had to pay stations to play her. Yes, her quirky personality was a hit, but it was not without heavy heavy marketing. Get out of here with this bs.
@@WillyJunior Exactly. Putting on a live entertainment show is not just always sitting in front of a mic and singing. Actually that is what happens when you can't do anything else.
Ever since I saw the video when I think of live music I think of Tracy Chapman in June 1988 playing “Fast Car” with nothing but a microphone and a guitar. No software, no backing track, pure music and all the feels.
I was at Tracey’s concert in Australia in 88 it was just her and her guitar I was in 6th grade , it was incredible ❤
I saw Laura Marling do the same in Edinburgh. Her band all had the flu so rather than cancel the gig, it was just Laura with a guitar and a mic. It was wonderful.
Tracy could sing a phone directory and it would fantastic. She's so great.
@@Frozy_lolipop Gah! I'm so jealous! I've loved Tracey since I was a kid ❤
@@TheKevinGHutton I don't know who she is, but that is epic! Much respect to Laura and the band 🤗
When I saw this vid I also saw a suggestion on my feed for Rick Astley at Glastonbury in 2023 performing Never gonna give you up. That's actually live. Rick nails the vocals, talks to the crowd, introduces each member of the band, lets them play a solo each, then closes out his set with one last chorus of Never Gonna give You up. When the band drops in and out with their solos you can hear them adjust and listen to each other. There's no mistaking that it was a live performance.
I loved that performance! Even the security guards were getting into it.
and he plays drums
More proof Glastonbury is never to be taken seriously (as if we didn't know) when a S/A/W teaboy's soppy 1987 factory-made signature 'tune' is happily welcomed on. And to think he was likely the best thing there, which says it ALL about where we are today in the long dead music scene!
@@kyachdistent1301 Aaahh, I take it you are the font of all musical authority, on what passes as "worthy"?
Sure, I don't like the stuff Glasto has on these days.
I'm not keen on Rick Astley, but dude is a musician. He's kept performing and playing, even when he wasn't a household name. Sure. His hit was designed as a by the numbers hit. Guess what. That's been happening for as long as the recording industry has existed.
Glasto is a buisness. It's always going to pick artists that bring in the money. That's ALWAYS been Glasto.
That money doesn't come from ticket sales.
Unfortunately, younger audiences are used to pitch perfect recordings, & karioke "live" sets, and I guess modern singers either don't have the confidence to perform live, or they/the record label don't want out of key footage around "damaging" the song. After all, you are never going to leave a Dua Lipa set thinking "gosh, she performed really badly today. Her voice was so off!" Fans are always going to get the "performance" they expect.
We probably have similar tastes. Last year I saw Culture Club, Howard Jones and Berlin. This year it'll be OMD, 10cc and ELO with probably Greenday too. Maybe our generations were spoiled because there are precious few modern artists that I respect, with the notable exception of Ren (amazing artist if you haven't heard him).
I would rather pay to see an imperfect live performance from a true talent like Cyndi, than what amounts to a download from Spotify, any day.
Imperfect is human. Perfect is silly.
I watched Taylor's concert film to see what the fuss was about so perfect such good visuals such on and off lip synching why have people wasted hundreds to see her live as a dot in the distance or projected on a screen watch the film and have better visuals of her combo live and lip synching show, turning point for me was the Stones in 96 came out asking friends if I had seen the stones or just lots of special effects so different to when I saw them in 82. best recent concerts Suzi Quattro and Bonnie Raitt they sing live, and they use no gimmicky effects. The drive to big arena concerts has been a big factor in the rise of lip synched shows
@@nellie371I think you might be making a good point but it's barely readable
If I wanted a perfect performance, I could stay in the comfort of my easy chair and listen to a recording.
Hear, hear. And when you catch a live act that truly manages to echo, if not duplicate, their recorded sound you know you're experiencing something special. Those types of shows have long been my favorite.
Cyndi's always sang "off the lines". That's what makes Cyndi, Cyndi.
It's called emotion....:)
That's what makes live performances enjoyable.
Drum sticks lost or broken. Cymbals falling over. Drum heads breaking with the stage hands scrambling.
It all adds to the excitement and uniqueness of watching live. You can say, I was there when that happened.
I'll stay home if I want to hear the studio version.
Great review Fil....
This! There’s something so unique about a live performance that I love. Like a fingerprint, not a one exactly like the other. I listen for the moment the artist takes a chance, does something a little different than the studio version. That’s the whole reason I love live. That, and the emotional infusion into the song at any particular moment. What would be the point of paying for a “live” concert for anything other than that? I’d rather just watch that at home on a big screen to go along with the “perfect” studio version on Spotify.
Sort of. Pretty sure she wasn’t doing it all intentionally. They clearly had monitoring problems.
"they sound the same live as they do on the record..." - this used to be a compliment
Maybe to some people. But I don't see any reason to bother with a live performance that is just like the original recording. I call it a recital and I'd rather just stay home.
People always said Steve Perry of Journey sounded better live than in studio. That's a compliment not sounding the same.
@@MsJimmysgirl I always hated the way Steve Perry sounded on those Journey records. If he sounded different live, then good for him.
@@paulperkins1615the way I interpret "they sound the same as they do on record" is not that they're mimicking the original version exactly, but that the band is as tight and proficient as in the record and the engineering of the audio is on par with the studio sound, but of course the performances differ, maybe the stuff is played faster, the guitar solo is a bit different, the vocals are less perfect. The band recorded material in a studio and is good enough they can play that same material on a live setting
@@CoTeCiOtmIt’s great when the band is tight and has practiced versions of songs that are a little different from the record. It makes you feel lucky to be there.
Cyndi Lauper, forever a legend.
As a singer myself I can’t imagine using studio recordings in the mix, it’s like these artists are doing karaoke of themselves. The magic happens between the notes when performing live, and the rush of synergy with the band is unbeatable.
Well that's an opinion. Backing vocals have always been a thing
@@DistantCousin Sung live by backing vocalists, not from a recording.
it's not even that. At least in a karaoke bar the person singing is actually singing.
@@patwilson2546 The is Ru Pauls Drag Race lip-sync for your life. LOL!
@@patwilson2546 there were 4 people singing backing vocals on that stage
Blows my mind that Cindy is 71. Absolute legend.
She's good enough for me.
Why does it?
She’s starting he final tour this year. ❤😊 1:22
She wasn't a kid when she broke out.
@@michael3728you goonie!
You can't compare them - one is a live performance, and one is glorified karaoke. Less than karaoke even, it's just singing along to the track. Which would be OK if it was billed as such, but it isn't.
At least when you do karaoke you are actually physically singing into a microphone. Still counts as a live performance... it's just a live 'vocal' performance. Even if you suck at singing... you are still actually physically doing the singing, with your lungs physically pushing air through your vocal folds and mouth and into the microphone... and then said microphone converts that into an electrical signal... which is then amplified and sent to the loudspeakers so the audience can hear it! :)) Lip syncing is entirely different obviously... not even close to karaoke.
Let's also take a moment to say Dua Lipa's songs are crap and totally unmemorable unlike Cyndi Laupa's.
Ozzy's last tour he had another guy off stage singing his parts, what would you call that other that Sharron is a Shekel Grubber?
As we said back in the day, if it sounds just like the record, it is the record.
Thank you for highlighting Cyndi, it drvies me bonkers people trying to drag her vocals, she's working hard at 71 :)
Saw the same thing with Debbie Harry (blondie) last year. She clearly had a problem with her in ear audio and was singing flat, she literally said ‘up up up’ multiple times during the gig. But everyone saying, poor old birds lost her voice. Plus she was 78 years old at the time ffs. Still rocking hard
I hope I sound as good singing at 71!
I read some news articles where they really slagged Lauper off for her voice, and fawned over Lipa. The press have been bad at pushing this autotuned "perfection".
The British press is usually terrible about anything good.
Does anyone even know what's going on in the buisness. Gotta be honest if not for Fil I wouldn't know how prevalent it's become. And being a product of the 70s and a tad stupid, thinking how cool it was to stand in front of those huge Marshals, my hearing isn't what it used to be.
@@davidwhitfield6432- I'm a product of the 90s and maybe the last generation silly enough to stand in front of massive Marshals 😅
They build up who they want…untalented women who just shake their bodies…It’s singing and the music I want. Not your butt or boobs!
And that is why so many artists are leaning on autotune and backing tracks now. The expectation now for both fans and the press is that your live performances will sound exactly like your studio versions
I’m 62 and when I went to see live bands in the 70s and 80s. They were LIVE. IMO if you can’t sing live without all the production, you’re not really of any great talent. It’s all marketing and production, not raw talent. So young people today need to understand that their brilliant live artists are not quite so brilliant.
This is a very important educational video. Great work.
but eh, try it,. you will get attacked, they dont wanna hear that.
I think there can be a middle ground. For example, for most of Twenty One Pilots catalog, Tyler Joseph records every vocal, the main, harmonies, different lyrics overlapping etc.
When they play live, there are occasionally backing track vocals heard. But the main vocals are all him. They just prefer not to bring an outside touring band, one tour being an exception.
He also quite often records all the instruments except percussion, so sometimes some instrumentals are also tracks, so that he can focus on singing and playing one of the instruments, and dancing around the stage.
George Michael live was incredible and he just used his backing singers to help him harmonise and literally back up
highly underrated vocalist
No, there was huge amount of processing on his live vocals.
Don't talk stupid@@EmsXGuitar
I'm playing 2 gigs and a recording session this week. No tricks, no pitch corrections, simply real instruments and voices performing music. It feels like the end of an era, of something that mattered. I'm 75, and I don't know any other way to be, warts, clunkers and all.
Good for you.👍
I appreciate an artist that really performs and cares.
With ya! I gig without correctors and a fully live band. Yes we make mistakes, who doesn't. I do feel though either we are forgiven or they are so slight the audience doesn't hear them.
RESPECT
@@tonywardle4764 Making the occasional mistake tells the audience you are real and live, and putting in the work.
Years ago, I was one of the sound engineers ( mixer ) on the Glastonbury Jazz World Stage, live then was live, no backing tracks, the sound was all the bands instruments and the singers voice.
It could be nerve wracking when things went a little wrong, and you always felt that you were the last link that HAD to get it right, but the shows were so much more enjoyable than they are today.
Cyndi Lauper still has her touch. She's better than Madona without a doub!
Live should just be live. No safety net, warts and all. That’s what we want, and real talent always delivers.
I totally agree! When I first my favorite band do an album on stage it was SO thrilling! Hear the vocals live and how they recreated the album sound so it sounded better live!!
Cyndi was dogged by the press for singing out of time; but how many included that she had sound issues for her entire set
Part of Cyndi's style was to always sing off the beat,today's music scene can't handle that
@@whenimeetgod She was so far behind the beat the next band had already started playing.
@@MGrayl-ib5fo 🤣🤣🤣
@@whenimeetgod she's one that lives to her own beat.
IIRC she said that her in ear monitors were lagging
I went to see a band called Crowded House when I was in my 20s. I had been listening since I was a child, I fell in love with the lyrics and the melody. Seeing them live, they didn't sound EXACTLY the same. The lead singer was white-haired, older, smooth, but a polished voice from a long career of doing this live.
I sobbed. Like I was a grown woman just sobbing during some songs because it was such a deeply emotional moment.
And you have that magic moment in live concerts, where the crowd is into it and you can FEEL the energy of the performer and it is clear they can feel your energy and there is this back and forth.
I feel sorry for younger generations because it was such a beautiful experience that might be harder for them to have. To hear the raw sound of art, still honed. Like the beauty of an old arrow-head. It may seem aged and ragged, but it was honed to a fine point and maintains that same value. If that makes any sense, I'm not great with metaphors.
I love Dua Lipa but when Cyndi belted that note it gave me shivers down my neck. It is a completely different sort of emotional involvement you get when a singer is singing live.
Don't understand how anyone can like Dua Lipa she's awful, I'd rather they had the Spice Girls 😂😂
Well explained video, Cindi was amazing, 71 and totally live, could not hear herself due to poor mix.
Also that’s Emily Estefan, Gloria Estefan’s daughter on percussion for Cindi
The longer I live the more I appreciate that I was around in the 80s and 90s to experience truely life and great music instead of the unbelievably boring mush that's called popular music today. And the longer I live, the more I love Cindy Lauper!
Are the great genuine 80's-90's sound of Milli Vanilli and mimed tv performances.
Me too!
@sergiovogel2449 I love her too - and it comes through her creativity. I want to be her friend. : )
Modern pop is totally boring now
As someone who survived the 80s and 90s I remember how much unbelievably boring mush was played on the radio back then. Please throw away your rose tinted earphones.
Cyndi Lauper is a freakin legend!
With 22 years as the ops mgr for an audio company behind me now, I have had more engineers say how great Cyndi is live much more than any other artist.
Another jaw dropping reveal of what kind of trickery goes on today. All credit to Cyndi!. I was privileged to see Cyndi Lauper and Maria McKee sing acapella, back in the eighties. It was at Maria McKee's show, in London, there was a power failure. Cyndi was obviously backstage. Instead of Maria going off, they stood out there together and sang old standards and gospel stuff for about 20 minutes until the problem was fixed. Absolutely spine tingling.
Wow. McKee has one of the finest voices ever, and while I’ve never liked Lauper she certainly is a great singer. That was something very special. I’m very jealous!
Do you remember the year?
@@europatelemakos2819 It might have been Duke of York Theatre which would put it in 1989. Hope that helps.
WOW that would be epic! They are both incredibly talented! ❤❤
McKee is highly underrated, damn near forgotten these days. I loved Lone Justice (yeah, the revolving line-up may have hurt their becoming more popular), but Maria truly came into her own with those first three solo rekkids in addition to being a session musician and song writer.
No backing/accompanying tracks in her live catalogue, that's for damn sure.
So...Milli Vanilli were just "ahead of their time".
There's no difference between the "live performance" Milli Vanilli perpetrated in Connecticut in 1989 which ultimately led to their downfall, and what Dua Lipa did at Glastonbury.
Well, there IS a difference...audience standards and expectations have slid so low that people under 30 years of age can't notice a difference AND don't even care that the "performers" are doing nothing more than moving about like animatronics.
Glastonbury has become akin to an expensive adult oriented Chuck E. Cheese.
Have said this for years now. Milli Vanilli were simply pioneers of what people wanted (or were satisfied with) from popular music... ;o)
Well said.
I don't know but this was common on TV shows back in the day.
@@vaderladyl I agree in principle. However, nobody showed up at the Ed Sullivan show thinking they were getting a "live concert" experience, nor did they pay exorbitant fees to do so.
It's TOTALLY different! Milli Vanilli DID NOT do the actual singing on their recordings. All the vocals were done by session musicians, not the duo.
Hi Fil, I'm a retired live sound engineer from New Zealand, having mixed at least 1000 shows; everything from a solo artist in a bar to international artists at festivals. I am appalled at the quality of sound engineering I often hear at contemporary concerts. At the Big Day out, an historical NZ and Australian series of annual events with major and up and coming international and local artists (on which I managed front of house sound for the second tier stage), it was extremely rare for an artist to have monitor issues like Cynidi has in your video. Recently, I have noticed some sound engineers looking at the screen of their digital mixing console and obviously not listening to the sound they are supposed to be mixing. I appreciaqte what you do on this channel, thanks.
I have learned more about mucic in 3 months of watching your videos than in every music class i had at school conbined. I appreciate music more now thanks to you. Keep up the great work
Your point about the dancing being more important than the singing is well-made. When I watch performers doing all that frenetic dancing, I just think there's absolutely no way they'd be able to sing and dance like that --- they'd simply be too out of breath, let alone able to control their voices, in such circumstances.
That's exactly what I thought.
Then they should just be dancers only. Otherwise they're just charlatans.
It's done all the time in live theater. We dance hard and are expected to sing as well as if we were standing still. Just saying that's why singers run on treadmills and sing
I'd like to see an analysis of Janet Jackson in the Rhythm Nation days. She danced and sang and YES she was often out of breath.
Madonna did it on her "Blonde Ambition" tour back in the 80's. The dancing was just as strenuous as anything today. Wireless headset mics became fashionable because of her.
This is so well explained. Cyndi Lauper is the real thing...and the band as well. A truly live performance...
So was Dua Lipa. It's live. Most of it at least. it's very clear when you watch other songs from the same performance.
Cyndi is great but she's just walking around.
Live over a prerecorded track does not equal live. You mention the drum balance is different in another post but that would be due to the "live" recording being recorded through the stage equipment.
@@jorellhshe is 71 do expect wild antics now. She was great.
@@Fadingfool No, it's not due to it being recorded differently. I've lined the tracks up in my DAW and compared them. The drum hits are different. Sometimes the kick (loudest drum part) is a bit later in the live version, other times it's a bit later in the studio versions. These are 100% different drum recordings. Also, you can compare these drum sounds to the drum sounds from other songs from the same performance and you clearly hear that these are live drums.
I saw Cindy Lauper live in a small club sometime in the 90’s and I was blown away by how great she really was. I’m quite happy to see her still doing it, and still killing it.
When I went to my first concert (World Series of Rock, Cleveland, 1977) I had no idea what to expect--maybe it would sound like the album. But I discovered that Ted Nugent and the other acts put on a _show_ and gave you a truly live rendition, including what I perceived as "mistakes," of their songs. When I saw Frampton a month or so later, I was just ready to enjoy.
My band was Faces and they were hilarious live. Start off out of tune, have an argument about who's out of tune, then speed up half way through a song, then realise and slow down, all the while Stewart is singing from a screwed up piece of paper he has brought out of his pocket with the lyrics on. Then suddenly, as if by some divine intervention...magic happens! They all come together as one and it sounds brilliant until the brandy takes over and it falls apart again. Now that's playing live!
Great comment! I wasn't a fan but that makes me wish I'd seen them.
Yes! That’s the experience of live music. You feel part of the moment and it’s memorable and fleeting and unrepeatable. Who cares if they f**k up - it’s all part of the fun and it’s evidence that they are human beings.
Like when you have a 30 minute set list, but the drummer is so efficient the band powers through it in 25.
❤your a lucky man Ross....
And that's rock'n'roll!! Exactly how it should be 🖤
Cyndi makes this video worth watching. She's real!
Your channel just popped up on my feed. I love this comparison. I used to sing and have no idea how they manage with ear pieces. I much preferred the old monitors, because, when singing, you can't hear!? I saw Stevie Nicks on Tuesday in Manchester and she was brilliant. She can still belt it out. The songs had been rearranged to suit her voice now, at 76. No auto tune. Brilliant!
Just syncing up the studio and live performances is hard enough. I’m always amazed at the work you put in for this channel. Love it!
Cyndi is performing rather than presenting. That is the difference.
It's not false. I'll do some apology for pop shows such as our much loved TS or Dua, where most people have a cell phone nowadays and are recording their own version of the show. In fact, you get such show live on CZcams if you look far enough, all thanks to people with what boils down to portable 4K/60 cameras. People, in pop, expect perfection, expect a dynamic show, people running around, pyros, costume changes, name it, all while being perfect for everyone's cameras as a small bit of baby fat or imperfect mascara will get slammed down. Is it entertaining? OF COURSE it's entertaining, and I recommend these shows all the time. This is not what is expected from old show foggies, or 1st parts, or newcomers. 3 hours worth of Rush (R40 was awesome), Rammstein, Pink Floyd, it's different, it's instrumental at times, it's expected to be less Physical (pun on Dua) for the artists. Cindy, she has the grand luxury of not caring anymore. She's a legend. But she's also not running around the stage doing acrobatics like a P!nk, Halsey, Queen B. Metallica can take smoke breaks and play instruments while posing, it's not their name in the middle of the place (it's their brand, though). Depeche Mode can have Gore play some songs as he's a talented vocalist. No one can play TS, she's the front and only person anyone wants to see in hundreds of shows per year, YET she still plays some live. And Again, Cindy, she earned her live act. -- TL;DR: you are exactly right. Performing rather than Presenting. And IMHO it's sad reality but all right.
Doh. of course Dua is performing too. You're talking rubbish. She performed her arse off
Good observation
@@DistantCousin Her backing track is performing, idk what Dua was doing the no talent slag
@@shootinputin6332woah! Strong feelings for dus lips there! lol
I haven t listened to Cindy in quite a while, and she did a very respectable job here, with flaws here and there, but within logical limits. And she is 71!! Wow!
i think you are doing the world a great service by pointing this out 👍🏻 i was reading the comments section on the BBC music channel videos 🙈 and really sad when realising that the average punter doesn’t have a clue how badly they are being tricked 😔 done out of their hard earned money for a ticket to a karaoke party , a lot of the audience are literally just kids ..
Cyndi is a true beauty, barefoot in a red dress in 1989 and now 71 years old in Glastonbury in 2024. Long live Cyndi!
Oh yes, she really is. She’s a doll *and* a sweetheart
Glastonbury used to be more of a rock festival. Now it seems to be a heap of pop "PA's" (personal appearances) with backing tracks and formation dances.
Dancing is a valid art form. Trends come and go.
Call it a dance festival then, certainly wasn’t a music one.
It is ironic when the kpop performances at Glastonbury, which are as much dance performance as they are music, are actually sang live more than some of the other artists.
It was never a "rock" festival. It was always a festival of contemporary music. That has changed a lot in 50 years. It was never a genre festival
To be fair they had had many many ‘oldies’ playing there Cat Stevens last year, Elton John, Paul McCartney and many others. There are less of the Dua Lipa’s than the older artists. But Dua Lipa is - in my mind - a recording artist not a live performer? I’d go for the oldies!
Wonderful analysis and insight. Thank you, Fil!! Appreciate the old school performance...Genuine. Cyndi is a pro.
What is "acceptable" is very personal, I guess. I'm a symphonic metal fan, and quite comfortable with use of a click track and many backing tracks for orchestra & choir to recreate that sound; but I draw the line at the lead vocalist and visible performers not performing live or being buried in the mix. On the other hand, seeing Rush in the 80s and knowing that the entire soundscape was being produced by those three people was also kind of a thrill.
Tell me you've been spoiled by Floor and Nightwish without actually saying it. I saw them a couple of years ago in LA; absolutely brilliant. Then again they are old school too.
I saw Rush many times and got the tingles every time!
This is important: there isn't one way to make music live. But I think it's useful to know what you're hearing.
The late Olivia Newton John had a fabulous live voice. We caught her sound check at West Hollywood Pride early that morning. At the time she was around 60-63. Olivia ran through Xanadu even stronger than the album version.
I love these present time eighties pop-stars live performances. Especially because in that eighties era, at that moment, coming from the seventies rock era, those synth-pop style stars had a bit of a reputation of being "fake" because of the abundance of synths and drummachines. And now they're nailing it big time compared to the present day pop stars. Cindy hitting those big notes is just wonderful and her voice being a bit sharp or flat in the run-up makes it even more beautiful.
True, but in the 80s there was always a distinction between the groups that could pull it off live and those that couldn't, at least for people who went to shows and cared about the music, not just the "spectacle." Today it seems like a lot of concert-goers fall into the latter category.
16:06: Cyndi bringing the house down with those belted-out notes! QUEEN. 👑💜
Thank you for doing this brother
Part of the thrill of a great performance is knowing that, like a skilled trapeze artist, there's no safety net underneath. The part that you don't see with Cindy is that, although she's obviously gifted with gorgeous pipes, she apparently has also worked hard to train and nurture her voice to keep it in great shape. It would be easy enough for her to ride the nostalgia gravy train and people would likely still love and respect her for her original artistry. Kudos to her for putting the hard work in, and having the courage to walk on the high wire.
Great comment. Agree 💯
Agree. And not just in terms of performance, but also about the risks they take with the material and where they take it, how free they are with it. I can listen to different recordings of Dire Straits songs because the mixes and the guitar solos are so different each time, such a pleasure.
Precisely! ❤
Just hearing Cyndi "count down" the band sounds good to me!
I need your video essays. They are absolutely indispensable.
Thank you.
Barty
Heck yeah. Great video 👏
Lip Syncing was a real setback for poor Ashley Simpson. Now it is cool.
Lipa-synching ?
😂
Dua you think so?
And Cyndi did sing " The drum beats out of time ! " many years ago .
😂
She isn't lip synching though.
I don't think it's controversial. Their 'talent' is nowhere comparable to genuine artists, and they hide this in relying on backing tracks. The shame is that our hollow consumer generations don't even care...
Such a great video. Thanks for explaining why live performances seem different now.
About 30 years ago I saw Shane McGowan perform with his then band The Popes - as The Pogues had split up. He was blind drunk, staggering around the stage, singing the wrong lyrics, the band started one song, he would sing a different one.. well, sing might be wrong word, he snarled and slurred.
But it was brilliant, unforgettable.
Now there's someone who needed auto tuning.
There are videos from Gorillaz as well. Shaun Ryder sang on one of the songs, Dare, and was incredibly drunk a few times on live performances.
Back in the 1980s I had to interview my father for a class assignment, using a lot of set questions and taking notes. He had been born in the 1930s and the majority of the music he liked was pre-1960s. At one point I asked him his opinion of modern Pop music. Dad‘s response is that he noticed a lot of singers really didn’t seem to have a good, strong voice. I remember he said something like “you have all these performance who have a little tiny voice, and then they put it through a microphone and an amplifier.” I shudder to think what he’d think about voice correction, “semi live” almost karaoke, performances, etc. He grew up on Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra.
Sinatra, Crosby and others were crooners who relied on close mic technique, not by having strong voices like opera singers. They relied on technology a lot. And karaoke singers are all live, however terrible.
Cyndi Lauper: absolutely EPIC the way she hit that high note with everything she got! Clear and sonorous. True artist! I'd be clapping non-stop.
This is what live music is supposed to be! If I wanted to listen to the song, I'd just sit at home and play the cd/spotify etc instead of spending my very hard-earned cash for "playback".
Fil, you explain so well what so many of us may feel when watching things like these. We know something's happening but dont know why, and you give us the technical key to it. Brilliant!! Thank you very much!😊
Fil. I drive my girl friend crazy when I tell her they are not singing live !! :) She says how do you know ?? I told her I just do. Nobody sounds exactly like the original recording live, no matter how good you are :)
well, ever hear profession oparasingers and soloartists? and what about pinkfloyd, they sound better live than on the albums.
The give away here is that no one can dance and singe so CLEAN at the same time. It’s just impossible
You are correct. I tried to listen to Dua Lipa's Glasto bit and I instantly switched off coz I could tell she was NOT singing live. She simply wasn't.
@@wout123100 Those professional singers may do a really good job, but do they sound absolutely identical at every performance? In the case of Pink Floyd I've definitely heard several live recordings where they sounded substantially worse than on their albums. Which is quite surprising because when the recordings are that bad they can actually cheat and fix them up afterwards.
Cyndi will never lip sync a performance like this because singing is her religion. You can't make that personal connection with the audience if you're lip syncing, and that connection is what she's there for. Check out her performance of 'Boy Blue' from the Live From Paris video. The song is about one of her closest friends who died from AIDS while she was working on the True Colors album. She absolutely cuts a vein. It's something we'll probably never see again.
nicely said.
My 3 favorite albums: 1) Iron Maiden "Live After Death" 2) Scorpions "World Wide Live" 3) Styx "Return to Paradise". Live performances have a raw energy etc
Live after death is an excellent live album from the greatest band of all time
awesome to see and hear the difference, without judging the artists on their performance. I love how old-skool live is more emotional to me, the imperfections make it perfect..
Thanks for this Fil. I'm glad that I've seen the artists playing live all the way through. As my t shirt says, " I may be old, but I've seen all the great concerts." You have done a great job in teaching what is going on in music.
Dua Lipa is fine at what she does, and if this was a Radio 1 or Capital Radio event, nobody would be bothered, but if anything it's the credibility of Glastonbury which is slightly tarnished by having such "non live" live acts performing.
The credibility of Glastonbury hasn't existed for at least 2 decades. I would rather pay for a completely unnecessary dental extraction.
Credibility of Glastonbury is long gone.
At what she does. And what she does is dance on a stage wiggling her yahoo and pretending to sing but, you know, not really. And when you do her her actual voice, well, let's be honest. That's barely MID on her best day...which is obviously in the studio and not live.
Being fine at picking your nose is nothing to be admired.
She's an auto tuned fraud who created forgettable dreck.
@@jungatheart6359 What, you mean Glastonbury isn't a bunch of stoned hippies lost in some field any more? Noooooooooo!
Love this video!!! Cyndi is still an absolute monster and her band was on fire!
Thanks for the light you shine to all non musicians out there, as we musicians know the wizard behind the curtain all too well.
Cheers!
I can remember playing good sized venues in the 80's.. No click tracks, monitors all over the stage, etc.. all live. You would sound check hours earlier getting the mix as good as possible, only to open the doors, let a few thousand people fill up the arena, and completely mess up the mix you had when it was empty.. The first song was always good and loud, but usually had that dreaded deep low-end hum, feedback here and there, and for some reason, the vocals were always way too low for the first few lines... It was amazing! Ha! Great analysis, sir
I am sixty3 and the 70's and 80's was a great time for live music, the bands never sounded like the records they're not supposed to, forgotten lyrics etc.
Usually because the guys on the records weren't the guys on stage!!
@@jonchilds1637so true man
@@michaelwills1926 Is it, what a fanny.
@@jonchilds1637 Well, Milli Vanilli for one. There weren't many others.
@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx don’t recall seeing much of Milli Vanilli in the 70’s!!
Its the reason 70s music touches your soul so deeply. The human & soul connection.
One more comment to say you're brilliant and so talented. I think I've commented before that I was stunned to find my mother watching you on her TV. It turns out she's been a fan for a long time. I had her watch some of your covers today, and her mouth hit the floor. She said, "Why is he not a massive success? He's handsome, plays piano and guitar, has a beautiful voice, and is so smart!" All in our southern East Tennessee accent. We ❤ you to bits.
I saw Keane, recently, at The North Festival and Tom's voice blew me away. No cheating required!
There would be outrage, were this Woodstock, Live Aid or nearly or any venue of even one generation ago. The fact there is not, tells us a ton about what has become of the industry 😢
I doubt there will ever be live concerts like those two again. At least not in my lifetime!! Maybe one day, but I doubt it!
@@Lilah1754 .... The huge venues will certainly be gone, but I think out of the ashes, will arise smaller bands that will form as touring buddies and travel around to play medium sized venues and play authentic music, just like heard at those monster events. Music is changing and there will always be those garage bands, they just wont reach Rolling Stones, Beatles or The Who levels any longer.
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Music will survive 🤘can The Kitty get a Bonk for Tunz?🐈😸
There was outrage when Brittney Spears got caught doing the same thing, semi-miming through concerts. People weren’t as willing to accept the excuse back then that the dancing and showmanship mattered more than live singing.
You could go to the opera, you know. No autotune, no pitch correct, not even a mic. Just a single voice, often singing over a full orchestra, filling a hall of a thousand people or so. Real musicianship too.
@@Wyl7 ... Yup. We have seen some big issues made of failed lip syncing and Milli Vanilli comes to mind. Of course, they didn't even sing their own songs in the studio, but authenticity of the artist, rightfully carried more weight than if they had good dance moves. I have little doubt that people like Michael Jackson would lip sync parts at least, but we go back to the mega R&B groups, for great singing and modest dancing.
.
Many music "artists" today are sold specifically on appearance, charisma and ability to dance in unison with others. If people know that is what they pay for... no problem at all.
Being older, I'm pretty sure every band I saw play and sing live actually did it. I rarely heard a band play a song live the same way it was on the radio. Sometimes that was good, other times not, but the feeling and electricity of the performance never disappointed.
4:25 there is an obvious comping audible in the isolated track. Comping means glueing together several isolated takes of a vocal and it can be heard as a short overlap between the two takes (the word "me" from "need me" overlaps with "I" from "I'm not here") which of course is impossible to do live, one can't sing two things at the same time. So there are obvious studio vocals going on.
I remember seeing Mick Hucknall in last year's Radio 2 In The Park. It was obvious that in his first song he couldn't hear an instrument to pitch to and he was off key (but in tune with himself), then suddenly something changed in his ear monitor and he was bang on key for the rest of the performance like the professional he is. Later on we were "treated" to Kylie basically doing the same as Dua Lipa at Glastonbury, but not before the brilliant Beverley Knight showed how a live performance should be done, the way Mick, Cindy and other real performers do.
Ringo Starr (mid-1990s) "I'm the f**king click track!"
Despite him not even being the best drummer in The Beatles.
@@DaveMcIroy I assume you were being ironic there - you do know that it was a comedian that said that, and that no one with any musical knowledge has ever said that?
@@annamariaisland1960, a couple of musicians said that. 🤷🏻♂️
@@DaveMcIroy Imagine how John felt. He wasn't the best drummer, lead guitarist, bassist or singer.
@@darthminogue, guess why he killed Paul and replaced him with Billy!
I saw cyndi lauper before. Shes a mind blowing vocalist. She's not singing without a safety net because that's all she knows she's singing without a safety net because that's what a singer is supposed to do. Lol. These kids today arent singers.
I was watching No Doubt's performance at Coachella this year and they played an amazing show; just as good as when I saw them live over 20 years ago. And then that's when I realized that there are no main stream bands anymore that give this kind of concert, or none that I know of. It's all solo artists who give the kind of show that Dua Lipa gave in this video. The cool thing is that No Doubt got great reviews for their performance at Coachella, and gained some new fans. So people out there still appreciate when bands write their own music and play live on stage. It's just been so long since that has been a thing that there are a lot of people who haven't been exposed to that kind of concert before.
I remember seeing videos of them live and occasionally Gwen was flat, but it proved it was live.
Twenty One Pilots does a great live show. They use minimal backing tracks, example being when there are different lyrics that overlap. They'd rather not bring a band on tour, so you can occasionally hear the track, but it's really obvious the singer is doing the main part live.
kar·a·o·ke, noun : a form of entertainment, in which people sing popular songs into a microphone over prerecorded backing tracks.
Where everyone wants to be a star.
When you mentioned at the livestream last night you were going to be talking about Glastonbury, I figured it was Dua Lipa. There was a lot of talk about her miming, and she just said she doesn't mime, but obviously she is just singing along to a backing track which includes multiple vocal tracks. So many artists were having technical problems at Glastonbury, and somehow she wasn't. I am glad you are calling this out, because I think people don't realize that it is not an all or nothing type of thing. I think Avril Lavigne was singing live as well, and had a good set also.
Yes! She was singing live. And she is trying to be ironic and cool while she is singing for dome reason. Well I have seen worse. However so dod she have pre-recorded backning track of her voice on the chorus.
Beth ditto of gossip didn't have a problem singing live. She was fantastic
So in essence what Dua Lipa is doing on stage is actually Karaoke (singing to a pre-recorded backing track) rather than a ‘live’ performance.
Dua uses studio recorded and manipulated "live" vocals with an active mic.
I worked a gig a couple of years back and she was one of the headline acts, and her vocal mix, (with pitch correction), failed.
Hearing her ACTUALLY signing live was the longest and most painful 30 minutes of my life; and I've had kidney stones AND viral meningitis.
Maybe I'm just too optimistic but I think most artists actually do most things live, and Dua Lipa is more of an outlier than a rule. At least from the artists I am familiar with, although I do admit I don't pay attention to most popular acts.
Cyndi sounded great. Heaven knows I am no Britney Spears fan but I did feel sorry for her when she was dragged through the mud for a very out of tune performance many years ago. Most people (ie non-musicians) would not realise that if you can't hear yourself in the monitor, vocal or other instrument, then you are screwed. I know from experience...
I am a thereminist and it is literally impossible for me to play without adequate monitoring (hearing the pitch coming out is the only reference on my instrument as there is no physical reference and the field of the instrument is never exactly the same, so you can’t rely on physical memory if you can’t hear yourself). I have had so many bad experiences with live monitoring I have started to take my own headphones to gigs as a backup, which is not ideal but has just about saved me a bunch of times. I wish people understood this about performers
i was there, it didnt sound great, it sounded awful, but not because of any of the musicians performance onstage, we could barely hear Cyndi. there was something wrong in the mixing for sure. i saw other bands on the same stage and the sound was great. she kept fiddling with her mic/talking backstage to the crew etc. it was clear everyone knew there was a sound problem but they had to soldier on.
It happens often in festivals that only allow a quick line check with the lessor bands. They can usually get things "reasonably" figured out sometime into the first song but sometimes never. You'd think Cyndi would have gotten more of a sound check, but by the comments it doesn't look that way.
@@gertietheduck I wonder what Clara Rockmore did before monitors playing the theremin. That would interesting to find out. Maybe the had monitors then don't know but people definitely trained differently before the 60s when performing. You had to be able to project to the back of the theater as a singer for example. Now people had head mics and stuff.
@@popoff7808 she did what most modern-day therminists still do when they aren’t going through a PA, which is have a dedicated amp behind you. Even with a monitor/PA, it’s still best to have an amp behind you too (but I am limited in what I can carry to gigs as I don’t drive, and my little amp is not loud enough if I am playing on larger stages with a lot of other musicians). especially because you need to hear the dry sound without any effects , loops, etc and with no other instruments. You would place it at head height and use it as your main monitoring system. The idea is that you’d be able to hear yourself louder and before the audience could hear you as the sound would reach your ears first, so you can correct/adjust your playing as you go, especially when you have to come in after a break, because there will always be a tiny, split second adjustment needed to the pitch, if you are coming in cold. If you play quietly enough that you can hear but others can’t you can adjust almost instantaneously before others’ ears pick it up. But yeah, you cannot play accurately on a theremin without hearing yourself. Not even Clara.
No two actual live performances of any song will ever match - and that is the beauty of seeing artists performing live.
If I want to hear the studio recording, I'll listen to it at home.
This is an education. One of your best vids.
Who's going to rush to see the video of Cindy? Of course an amazing artiste, but great to see she can still rock it with her voice and emotion. A true professional.
I just did that. She was amazing. And yet the critics tore into her.
Yes, but she has signed on to do an avatar like ABBA Voyage (she made a video about it a few months ago) and that disappoints me on some level.
@@jimandlizhudson2501it sounded awful to the crowd. There may have been reasons, but nonetheless it didn’t sound good,
I love videos like this SIr! I've been backing Elvis Tribute artists for 25 years now, and the band I'm in has NEVER used a click track or backing track for an "Elvis". We have used the track for the 2001 show intro (but have also used a full symphony orchestra too), Everything we do is LIVE and is what it is what we are doing on stage, mistakes and all!! Way to go Ms. Lauper for what she does!! I love you exposing FAKE BANDS AND SINGERS!!!
I know modern day pop artists go for a spectacle and I understand it requires a great deal of syncronization of various technologies but there is just something special about live band just performing. It feels more intimate and special because the band feeds on the energy from the crowd, that's why you get faster tempos live than on actual recording. Might sound wrong on the first glance but all that matters is it feels great when you are actually there.
Hi Fil,
Another brilliant analysis, I can hardly put into words what a great job you did on this video. You nailed every single point about the differences in the two highlighted performers and the ups and downs of singing/performing live. Your points are ALL valid and the true aspects of singing live! It is not easy! I feel for Cyndi not being able to hear herself , that is the worst thing when singing without a “safety net”. Anything can and does happen truly live. Great job explaining this in an understandable way getting the message out that singing live can sometimes be a gamble. Love your complete honesty in bringing home these important aspects. Love Ya’… Debbie☮️
The truly great acts get on stage and deliver the sound without “safety nets”.
I've loved Cyndi Lauper since the '80s. This kind of thing just makes me love her more. Thanks, Fil. :)
Fantastic explanation, well done
Great analysis. I've heard this phenomenon for years, but this video really proves the point. I very much noticed backing tracks at a Coldplay concert in 2017. 95% of the instrumentation of their main hits was pre-recorded. But then, they did have an authentic part of the set, as if to prove they can really play.
Liked your use of studio release sync-up, revealing recorded vocals as well as band's backing tracks in Lipa performance.
Kudos to Lauper and band for their live "live" performannce!