Why do Guitar Players INSIST on being THIS DUMB?
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- čas přidán 12. 03. 2024
- Guitar Players and are all too happy to drop THOUSANDS on something they might not need. Here's how to avoid wasting a ton of money like I did!
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About Spectre Sound Studios:
I'm Glenn Fricker, engineer here at Spectre Sound Studios. I love making records, and after doing it for sixteen years, I want to pass on what I've learned. On my channel you can find tutorials on how to record guitar, bass, real drums and vocals. There's reviews and demos of tube amps, amp sims, drums, mics, preamps, outboard gear, Electric Guitar, Bass Guitar, and plugin effects.
We've covered Moon on the Water, played Bias FX, given you the absolute best in Stupid Musician Texts, ranted & raved about bass guitar, and this channel is where The Eagle has Landed.
Everything you've wanted to learn about recording Hard Rock & Heavy Metal can be found right here on this channel!
I also respond to your comments & questions: The best make it into the SMG Viewer's Comments series of videos. Loads of fun, lots of laughs.
Thanks for checking out my channel & please subscribe!
That moment when you spent thousands on your bass amp and cabs, haul it all in the studio and the engineer then just DIs your signal straight into the interface.
That being said, I love my Ampeg PF50-T.
Or they plug in a Dark Glass pedal and say go.
It used to annoy the hell out of me. Got a bass butler and never looked back.
@@zachisebimy engineer was going to mic up a bass amp, I wanted to use my pf500 going into his SVT 8x10…and then it crapped out the moment I turned it on, so I had to go DI anyway. Got the head fixed under warranty and and reamped it at home through the same head and my SVT 4x10, so pretty much the same results
Geddy Lee gave up amps decades ago. Like 30 years of shows with no amps. Just di into the main board.
Hey Glenn, I am a high school science teacher and this video is an excellent example of practical applications of the scientific method. Data and evidence is much better than uninformed opinions. Thank you for all the work you did for this video.
Exactly my point of view as a physics teacher in Germany! 😂
Glenn is the electric guitar myth buster extraordinaire.
It would be great if he can do triplicates! One single curve isn't scientific enough to prove/disprove anything. Since tiny variations such as vibrations displacing the microphone some millimeters can be the responsible for the changes observed in (11:48). The valleys and the peaks of sounds waves can be easily affected by tiny vibrations. More even if the mic used is a double mic (double input), or there are two source of sound waves (a 2x12 cab). These factors can lead to constructive interference (increase of the amplitude). Once you have triplicates from amp A (you can average them), and compare that against the average of amp B. In this way, Glen will be able to establish whether those changes (11:48) are or aren't statistically significant (not only attributable to other factors, such as constructive interference due to using two inputs (2 mics), or 2 sources of audio (2x12), or mic positioning, vibrations, etc). I am not an audio engineer, just a dumb scientist.
@@bartoskulasek8481 Are you familiar with Manfred Zollner's epic book Physics of the Electric Guitar? If not, check it out. It's available free on the internet.
If most guitar players had been paying attention during their highschool science classes they wouldn't do dumbshit things like walk onto a stage with their amp, place it on the floor right next to them and proceed to point it at their KNEES while complaining "Hey soundman, I can't hear myself, can you put more in the monitors". 🤦♂
From the perspective of a Sound Engineer… THANK YOU for this!
I’ve just been sending my guitar-playing friends to your channel rather than trying to convince, I’m letting you argue for me. Great job!
I love it when he gets angry and starts screaming. Depends on what mike he's screaming through though.
I just learned this last night...Once I started customizing my cones it could make apple airpods sound like a triple rectifier with all knobs halfway.
I agree, in 2014 I bought a JCM800 2203x, the reissue model, I tried various 2x12 cabs with different speakers, but still couldn't get that 80's metal tone I had in my head. Until it dawned on me that to get that 80's metal tone, I needed to have a speaker they actually used in the 80's. Eventually by pure luck I stumbled upon an early 80's JCM800 2x12 cab with Celestion G12-65's in it. And that was it! There was that Judas Priest and early Metallica sound!
Imagine the CEO of Celestion sitting at a desk, his hands making the “ triangle of doom”, muttering “goood...good....” like Mr Burns from Simpsons....?
Excellent!
That only happens in Eminence, Kentucky.
The Matamp factory has a "speaker tester" corner where you can plug your amp in and switch between several different speakers, and decide which works best for you. It was one of the most useful and educational things I've ever seen, and I wish that more places (eg. music stores) had something like that.
Chuck Levins in DC has that too
What Google search would I put in to see if anyone has this in my area. Denver Colorado
@@denverrandy7143 call wildwood that’s probly your best bet not sure if you’ll find on google
We had an Ampeg amp and cabinet switcher in our bass room at GC many moons ago. All their cabinets in production at the time, all the current head on sale at the time, it was great; even if the room they were in sucked.
Things like matamps and fuzz are the reason this video is wrong. Not all amps can take fuzz and doom the same, I guess that has more to do with response than sound though
I've learnt so much.
Your social awareness programme on money saving with music recording really helps me so much.
Really weird when there are those who still didn't understand your messages through your useful experience. Let them sink with their egos.
Thank you Glenn for showing us the economical path and shortcuts to make our lives easier when recording. ✊🏽
Great production on the video! This is so cool Glenn, thanks to you and the team as always. I always felt it when I played with my Headrush mx5, the difference in the amp really gets overshadowed by the cab/ir
It's crazy. When my eyes are in the equation, i could hear a slight change in eq, more "meat" in the mesa mids and more fizz in the 5150 highs. Without the benefit of eyes, didn't even really notice the change mid clip. Awesome video as usual Glennjamin!
I was thinking about that. I agree what Glenn says and we have the results as well. I wonder if distortion pattern makes that difference like the way signal gets distorted rather than the eq difference.
@@onuryuksekol Nah it's probably because of pre EQ. You can make a 5150 sound as flabby as a dual rec just by putting a low shelf on your DI before it hits the amp.
I definitely heard the difference when it witched from the first clip to the second clip. At which point i thought the second clip sounded better.
Then watching the example where it shows the change mid-clip i'd definitely say the first half (i.e. the 5150s) sounded better... which makes sense if i thought that the beginning of the second clip sounded better than the end of the first.
all that said, i only ever noticed the difference when i was looking for it... i didn't even notice the change mid-clip until i was told it was there.
Guitar players don't know how to use EQ knobs lol. Jim Lill pretty much made Fender, Marshall, and Vox amp sound the same. Just turn the fukin knobs.
It's not as crazy as you think. If you have an idea of what sound the visuals represents, you know what to look for. And when you're told something changes, your brain will also do its best to accommodate too. Even to an extent where you hear crap that isn't real at all.
Like most players, I've been guilty of falling for marketing and hype, but I've also spent much of my playing years feeling either confused at my inability to hear the massive differences that others heard, or shunned because I felt confident enough to speak out against them. Hearing my guitar heroes talk about how their pickups and their choice of woods influence so much of their tone, or listening to the "tone is in the fingers" argument from people that I admired as musicians...it always left me feeling deflated, wondering why I couldn't hear what they heard. Here we are now, years and years later, and Glenn is confirming most all of the things I've always felt and thought I knew. Turns out, I wasn't crazy or or totally lacking in Golden Ears after all.
Thanks for all that you do, Glenn.
Maybe. There are things that sounded different to me over time. I think a lot of it is our perception at a given time with contexts. Knowing any piece of gear and not deeming something “useless” but really getting to know it in as many contexts and configurations it can be applied to and actually taking mental notes helps with things. Not just buying blind because the demo of words raving . I’ve learned to really buy with as specific intentions as possible to avoid buying shit that won’t get utilized. It’s helped quite a bit.
There's a bit of true that part of the tone comes from the playing (from your fingers), of course not huge but it does impact the way you sound
It's basically the same as when you play your CD through different sets of speakers. The original signal is the same. It's the speakers that will change that signal into the sound. I have had same speaker system with different amps, the results were insignificant to human ear. Changed the speakers, the sound changed significantly.
I just go with Hill Billy assessment but it works every time.
There's a role amps play in the sound but it's the power they can feed the speakers with. Underpowered means shitty sound, overpowered means shitty sound.
@@nikdrownWellll... A good amp is good, and a tranny head might have a slightly different sounding distortion than a valve head.
But in a live micced up situation or in a studio in a mix, the rest is almost all speakers.
And simulators in a mix are sometimes detectably different than a miked amplifier... But the last ten or fifteen years has revealed that you will almost never point at one or the other after the fact and say "That sucks - it's an amp sim."
They're just too good, and in a mix, the differences just don't take "subtly different" and turn it into "bad".
Devin Townsend has been running Sims almost exclusively for a good 15 years or more both live and in the studio.
it’s usually the professional and advanced musicians that talk about tone woods. That’s because they do have golden ears. They spend their lives honing their craft and listening for discrepancies in their sound. Getting it dialed to their liking. However, 99% of people couldn’t tell the difference. So you really shouldn’t worry about it. They worry, because as players, we play better when we sound how WE want to sound. And that is fairly different for everyone.
Hey Glen, Just wanted to thank you for all the great advise. Your testing has has been such an eye opener. Unlearning what I think I know is not easy. All the best to you.
I enjoy your fact reporting videos. I'm 60 and playing guitar is a hobby I love. With that I've never dropped tons of cash on anything and have always looked for the best thing I could get testing and comparing everything I have. I have played many expensive guitars and read everything about what they were made of. I looked for less expensive quality stuff that basically was made with the same materials. You do wonders with a less expensive acoustic guitar by simply replacing the plastic nut and saddle with Tusq version. I play everything from metal to country to blues and I just love it. Spending time with the knobs on any gear you have can really get you good results. You can save a ton of cash by just learning some simple care and setup adjustments. You do good work Glenn. Thank you.
Been an amp tech for 25 years. I’ve told every player looking for a “mod” to change the speaker first. Most high gain amps are either a Marshall/Soldano clone to a small varying degree. Sure you get fancy channel options and switching, but the gain structure is the same.
The recofire is a clone of the soldano preamp. But with a weaker poweramp?👍
I don't get it and 10 minutes on this video I don't see anything valuable; when he seems to begin to explain something useful, he interrumpts to ramble on "dudes spending millions blabla", could you explain?
I also gotta tell you I didn't spend thousands of dollars in amps. 23 years playing and I swear do you I didn't even spend 500 dollars. I hate extremely loud and powerful sounds and find amps with more than 20w useless so I only bought small cubes, probably 3 as far as I remember. I'd buy what Ralph Macchio used in Crossroads if I found one.
Anyway, yea, different brand, different sound. I already played in more powerful amps, I set them up the way I wanted (and I always do the same) and they did sound different of each other. I found Peavey much better than Marshall. It was probably a 50w Peavey or so and it was the only amp over 20w that I ever liked the sound.
Unless it's a clone of a Fender clone. Haha
@@samaldiniAmplification is a VERY straightforward operation. You take a signal, and you increase it. There's literally nothing more to it. If it does something else, it's not doing its job right. If you want coloration, there are much better places in a chain to get that.
@@gutterg0d Then why a brand sound different than another? Maybe the material used to incrase the signal?
I don’t even play metal, but I couldn’t agree more, it’s alllll about the speaker, once you figure this out it’s such a relief to know.
It's all about the mic placement
@@Vazaqin How do you place your mic?
@@millennialanimalUpside down and sideways, obviously 🙄
@@darksu6947 😁
@@darksu6947obviously
As obnoxious as this guy can be, I really appreciate the brutal honesty. He's just trying to help us out.
Learning a lot from your content, I'm so glad I found this channel. Proving and explaining the technical reasoning behind tone is definitely the best part of what you share here!
so basically, bringing this thinking to digital modelers like an axe fx, helix or quad cortex, we now learned, if you need to change your favourite tone to fit a mix, try changing the IR fiirst 👌
thank you glenn!
Exactly
That and throwing an EQ after the preamp to finetune the frequencies that hit the IR and/or real speaker.
I must say though, IR’s can be somewhat of a rabbithole when searching for something that matches not so common used speakers, a cabsim with a good EQ and a broad mic selection plus their placements can actually be easier and cheaper to get there faster.
Quick example, Blackstar made a Dept 10 Dual Drive and Distortion, most demos and reviews don’t even bother to look at the tweakability that the cab sim has on those two, they are actually just ignoring it and then state “not as good as”.
With some time spend on tweaking, especially the frequency response EQ for the speaker sim itself result is close to quite a few good IR’s.
But it’s easier to go with the flow….
Yep. Discovered this after using some of Resington bigfoot IRs after a Vadim Taranov Natas clone. Got blown away.
Hey Glenn do this test between a mesa dual rectifier and Mesa Mark 5. Please
Thank you Glenn! I have been applying a lot of what I learn here to my rig and recording set up and you have saved me tons of time and money. Your work is very appreciated.
Hey Glenn! Excellent video! Concerning mics, not something a lot of people think about but would love to see a shoot out between a dynamic, condenser, and ribbon mic for mic’ing guitar cabs. Keep up the killer vids always love watching them
You're spot-on about the speakers making a huge difference. Years ago, I replaced the stock speakers in an Ampeg 4x12 straight guitar cab with Eminence Texas Heats and that cab not only sounded better for what I play, but seemed to go noticeably louder before starting to distort. Keep preaching the truth man!
For anyone still doubting this, I can confirm AS A BASS PLAYER that the speaker is absolutely the most important part of your sound. I use 2 channels to get my bass tone, much like Billy Sheehan's setup. I have a lot of distortion on one channel, and the difference in sound goong through a cab vs going direct is night and day. Listen to this man!
SN: Can you do a video on bass cab speakers? 4x10 vs 1x15, 2x15, etc? Plenty info on guitar speakers, but not much info dor bass.
Thanks, from your neighbor in Detroit!
Yeah, big difference between GK speakers and peavy just to name one apples to oranges compare
That sounds interesting! Can you share a bit more details about your setup?
I'm a guitar player but I use a bass amp combo. It's surprising how little there is with speaker comparisons. Guitar speaker comparisons flood CZcams but I usually find the same five bass speakers and even then not that many in the context of a comparison. Heck I've seen forums and such that claims that changing a speaker in a bass cab won't make as big a difference as changing a speaker in a guitar cab.
@@lukasb2790 I have used both peavy and GK. Both are very different. GK is in short super scooped twang and boom. Peavy is boom with articulate but less harsh treble
@@nerdyneedsalife8315 you would be very surprised to know that some amps that have a Peavey "blues" speaker in a guitar combo are peavy blue marvel's. A bass speaker. You can tell by the fat treble that you would have hell to make an ice pick out of
Your preaching of speaker performance and its effect on tone was really something that I hadn’t really considered through the years. Like you say, I would always be chasing the next “best” amp to get “the sound”. However you’ve really opened up my ears. While I have several amps and cabs, I’ve recently moved into the world of amp and cab sims and that’s where you really hear the difference. I love having almost any cab and Mike available to me for recording.
Your in-depth testing with proof of the sound change is great stuff. Thanks dude🤘.
Hella lot easier to swipe speakers and amps with the mods and profiles lol
Awesome video, really enjoyed it. My personal experience told me the same thing. I used to own an old Silvertone 1484 with the original 2x12 cabinet. I tested and recorded it with three different cab setups and I couldn't believe how different it sounded with each one - almost like it was three completely different amps. Rock on Glen!
Glenn : I took the SAME amp and used a few different speakers. I had an old 12 inch Scorpion, an older greenback, a v30, an older full range EV12... Amp settings were all the same, not a knob adjusted.. they ALL sounded different! Its amazing how the same amplifier without changing a thing can go from a bluesy tone to classic rock to early metal sounds! They were all placed in the same 1x12 cab.
I've been seeing more and more people talk about speakers in the last couple months. It's a slow process, but I think you are breaking through! Keep up the good work
I've been sticking distortion pedals and EQs in front of solid state and tube amps since the mid '70s. You're 100% correct, the amp matters very little most of the time.
Edit: I made this comment before you mentioned the EQ and distortion pedal before the amp. Seriously a lot of people don't know that you can use an EQ as a booster or distortion pedal all by itself. With more control over the shape of the sound than either of those.
An Ibanez GE-601 has been on my pedal board since the late 80's. It is literally the only original pedal I still run after all of these decades.
Yup, i have an MXR eq i throw in front of my deluxe clone for distortion and flexible eq when i actually use it, which is not very often because i mostly just use my Kemper because its just easier, lighter, more reliable etc etc. The tube amp is honestly pure nostalgia in todays current climate, so many modelers for bugger all coin that are absolutely more than good enough. Plenty will disagree, mostly because they just cant admit that 10's of thousands of $ worth of temperamental vintage tube amps are no longer relevant as anything other than collector pieces. In 20 years nobody will want real amps and they will be essentially worthless i bet.
@@dunxy A lot of players don't use tube amps anymore, whether they're using a Kemper style thing or a Line6 POD - even the Behringer V-Amp sounds awesome. I use a tube amp at my house because yeah, I like tube sound and at home I play merely for pleasure. If I ever go on a gig or have to go to rehearsals again, I'll get a relatively cheap POD like thing (I do not need a Kemper, more parameters than I want to use live) and go thru the console, it'll do the job perfectly. And they're still "real" amps, just different tech.
I put a 2x12 cab together with a V30 and creamback and I love it. This is really eye opening video about the differences in the amps I had no idea they were so close together.
Im currently costing the build and kitting out of my home studio and the Lewitt 640 rex is actually such a cool hack! Love to see a full breakdown on diffrent mics by you
"Why do guitarists insist on being this dumb?" I think you said it best in a previous video - they have to be No. 1 at everything :)
I was talking about how dumb guitarist have gotten and wondered if it’s always been like that and the internet just made it more noticeable or if it’s just coming into bloom. I seriously hate talking to guitar players about shit and I one but some of them can get ridiculous. I get a lot of dudes amazed at the fact none of my guitars are really expensive or high end but they will ask how I get my sound lol. Well……it’s a number of things that you’re not going pay enough attention to nor really consider…….SO WHY FUCKING ASK!? Lol
barrry9 is numbah 10
@@nikdrown By the time I started learning to play guitar in Argentina, 20 years ago - where things are harder and more expensive to get, back then most of them got here ten years later, nowadays you can get most of the stuff but it seriously hurts your wallet - we used to get good built, cheap guitars - Squier, Samick, Epiphone and that kind of thing - and mod them if needed. As guitars became more available and we had some more money friendly years - gone for now - people started expending money like idiots and yes, the internet - which also came here a bit later than it did to the first world - potentiated the phenomena. I'm a sound tech - not a studio oriented one, though I can jump in if needed - and I've always modded my guitars to sound like I want them to. Got a lot of Squier haters to say: okay, yours is amazing, the others still suck. Truth be told, any Squier with the work mine has on it would sound that good. I've sold the more expensive guitars I had because it hurts me more to mod them when they don't do what I want them to do, so I only get cheap guitars that look good to me and are well built and then mod the shit out of them if I don't like how they sound. As for the chats with fanboys, I don't have them anymore because the exact same thing that happens to you, happens to me when I do. Regards.
Well with glenn being a guitarist, I can take his word for it.
I was literally rolling arround on NY couch laughing my asp off when you "rubbed our face in it"! F'n Great!!! Love it!!!
Thanks for a great video Glen! I've been saying for a long time that the most important things are the speakers and the mics. I've got a pair of 35W Mark V's, a combo with a 90 watt Celestion, and a head driving a closed back 1x12 with a V30. The sounds are so different! I picked up on your trick of eq'ing through blending. I use the Solo controls to boost one amp louder than the other if I want a tighter brighter sound for rhythms or a warmer sound for leads. Works great. Thanks for the confirmation on my experimentation. It was an illumination.
The episode you did on cabinet comparison blew my mind. I've since replaced my speaker cabinets.
Just got the 421 in last week can't wait to give it a go on a killer blues artist.
Thank you for your diligent comparison
0:47 glenns trickery knows no bounds! Well played mr fricker! 😁👍
Which speakers should I install in my VOX AC30 to get it to sound like a recto?
Such a clever question! It highlights an unstated but important scope limitation: a similar number of saturation stages. Glenn alludes to this when he mentions solid state amps being a bit different, and that is due to differing saturation arrangement. The same applies to vastly different tube saturation strategies.
None. It’ll sound like a Vox either way. I agree speakers effect sound but the amp still matters regardless. You can’t make a Marshall MG sound like an AC30
@@guitarflyer172 Haha. Yep. It was a bit of a tongue in cheek question. I think you got the point though.
Thank you man you helped me a lot with my music and I appreciate how you help musicians on advice and stuff they need to know and again thanks
Glenn the EQ graphs of the amps and speakers made this video gold. So fucking rad, hope to see that even more here, it’s something I’ve always wanted to test but lacked all the necessary gear to do so! Thank you 🤘🏼
I wanna hear how both the greenback and creamback sound blended in a mix. I bet they would sound amazing.
It does! I have a GB x CB combo in a Marshall 2x12 that sounds killer. Very balanced and warm without being too loose. Well, maybe too loose for metalcore, but more than tight enough for the dad rock and thrash that I play 😂
Creambacks sound so tight I love it
Thank you, Glenn. This was a very good practical example at demonstrating the factors that determine guitar tone. I have a Line 6 Floor Pod Plus which is basically an analogue amp modeller with speaker cab simulation. Switching between amp models does make a difference in tone although not as much as is brought about by switching between the type of cabinets. The frequency response curves provide the proof we need.
😊👍🏼
This is an awesome video. Tons of killer points and info. Well done! :)
I have a orange micro dark and I just added an EQ pedal in the loop and an overdrive in the front and i think that it really opened that little amp.
EQ pedal is the trick to turning any amp into any amp 😂
The micro dark is a total monster! I love the shock when people realize it's the lunchbox I'm running through and not the amp lol
it is very funny to me that the speakers make such a huge difference that I can clearly hear it ON A PHONE SPEAKER
The speaker/cab real or virtual combined with the mic/preamp and position whether it is virtual or real makes the biggest difference in terms of gear. Once you down the rabbit hole of parametric eq after the preamp in conjunction with different types of boosters you can get one amp to sound like many others thus reducing the unnecessary expenditure you often speak of. You could nudge an amp within its general category in almost any direction. We are taking of gain stages as well as frequency response which is why as you have numerous times described the speaker will make the largest impact in the timbre quality.
I might be biased somewhat being a music teacher but even above the gear the one thing I see most guitarist don’t invest in would be their education. With the students in our orchestra and chamber music program we see them invest in master classes, private lessons with visiting artists or attend festivals where they would study under an intensive program. This is all in addition to their music education in college and what they did before that to be able to get to a level in which that is possible. By and large many of the “tone chasers” can’t accompany, play changes and are lacking in fundamentals such as articulation, pulse and rhythm. Perhaps before buying the next iteration of the 5150, how about downloading a metronome and getting some lessons? Maybe a fretboard harmony course ?
Really fantastic video, super educational and I love your sense of humor! Thank you for the effort in putting this together.
Facts. Not only the speaker, but also the mic makes a huge difference. Speaker placement, eg proximity effect, closer more bass, further away less bass, more toppy. On axis vs off axis, yet again different. Etc… Then also remember, a mic is basically a tiny speaker used in reverse! Same huge difference different speakers gives, so huge differences using different mics and placement. Finding that ultimate sound is spending time not only in speaker selection, but also to find the ultimate mic. The whole signal chain ultimately determines the end result though.
Hey Glenn. One thing this video made me think of is "product families"
I bet most guitarists who own a 5150, Soldano or D.Rectifiers want to own all three.
Perhaps such people would benefit from getting a completely different style of amp, or not. Eitherway, a good video would one that classifies amps (and other products maybe) into families that sound too similar to each other to warrant the purchase of more than one. That way, people could save up, buy the one they could afford/find, rely on the rest of signal chain and on EQs when trying to reach the sound they want.
That doesn't really address the fact that it's the speaker making the sound, not the amp.
@@rainsticklandguitartalk9483
If that's what you've taken from Glenn, maybe one of us is misunderstanding him.
Almost everything in the chain affects the sound, to different degrees varying between massive (different speakers) to mostly inaudible (different humbuckers with distortion). The speaker is an eq placed near the end of the chain (along with the mic) so it has the most impact. But different amps do sound different, just check out his next video, he mentions that.
Now yes, they sound different for different reasons than what most people think (see the Jim Lill video), but you can't attach anything to a greenback and then expect it to sound the same. Just think about this: tweaking the eq section of your amp, that on its own makes a massive difference. Same with where the distortion happens in the amp (amp design).
Yes the speaker is making the audible sound, but it's making it based on something fed into it, otherwise all you'll hear is something similar to pink/white noise.
I remember the day 5 years ago when I upgraded my cheap pickups to my favourite guitar players signature model. I was so excited the first time I played, I told myself I heard a difference but I didn’t. I also remember a couple months ago when I upgraded my electronics in the same guitar and the EQ wasn’t reacting the way I wanted, instantly went to FB and asked “I’m not liking the bass response in these pickups, any new pickup recommendations?” I then started messing about with the cab section in NeuralDSP and that was the moment I found my issues, microphone choice and placement on the cab. I’ve now started window shopping cabs and speakers and not amps. Thank you Glenn
Excellent information... This is stuff that's invaluable!
Thanks for the Morley advice. I'm certainly gonna order some of those!
People still tend to go a little nuts when I even suggest changing speakers would make a bigger difference than changing their tubes.
I once got a lecture on filament material, glass thickness, etc. The glass thickness thing cracked me up.
That's crazy. Even in the 90s, I knew that speakers made a bigger difference than tubes, lol. I learned that when I bought a Valvestate and paired it with a cheap cab. It sounded like ass, so when I put my JCM 900 cab on it, it sounded way better, so I paired the cheap cab with my Ampeg VH140C, and suddenly, it sounded like ass, lol. That was when I learned that the speakers were incredibly important to tone, lol. I've owned tube amps, too, and changing tubes never really changed the tone.
I would just reply with "but how does it taste?"
Guitarists are more conservative then the Taliban, for Leo Fender and Les Paul got it right the first try, everything else since is just heresy. And more gullible then audiophiles with their chrome plated anti-matter coated cables and gold plated digital to analog converters.
Especially, since most of the tubes are made in the same factory ....the only change is the label they put on it, don't get me wrong some sound better than others....just like anything else.
@@travisspaulding2222I used to run a pig VH 140C into a Carvin 4x12.
It would completely devour the room
Holy shit Glenn, you really knocked it out of the ballpark with this one. That test was fucking textbook and it really shows how much effort you put into helping (stupid) musicians get the most out of their gear and/or save money. I still can't get around the fact that there are people calling you a fraud or dismissing your evidence, but I have gained massive respect for you just seeing the lengths you got to demonstrate your methodology and tools.
And don't get me wrong, I've always been on your side and I agree with your points made, it's just that this was an outstanding video really.
Keep it up, much love from Mexico.
Thanks man! Name calling doesn’t matter. Evidence does.
Really enjoyed this video, interesting to hear the side-by-side comparisons.
Great video, Glenn. You made helped me make a decision on what type of speakers I like best in a cab when I ordered one - turns out I prefer the sound of Creambacks.
Your starting to approach that Kyuss tone. One problem the consumer has is videos that promise an artist's tone on a budget and thier all based on gear. They more than imply the more expensive the gear the closer you can get.
I wouldn't be surprised if Josh Homme using some Peavey solid state amps on their albums lol 😂. He's the antithesis of a gear snob.
He really did, its a fact.
@@JimBoom92Nice, I thought so. Those guys were broke high desert punks so they were definitely making the most of what they could get. I'd say great metal tone can also be had with a Randall RG head with MXR EQ to act as a tonal shaping tool and buffer. More money doesn't always equal cooler sounds 😊.
@@Napalm6b i agree. The Kyuss "tone" (if ever this exists!) is certainly not about expensive
While I agree with you that speakers make a huge difference, I’d be interested to hear the difference between amps that aren’t ripoffs of each other, for example, a Marshall DSL vs a Dual Rec, 5150 or SLO, or even a Mesa Mark Series vs a Marshall or SLO-type amp. Also, thank you for pointing out Mesa & Peavey ripped off Mike Soldano, I think more people should know this. I’ve been aware of this since the early 2000’s, I heard the rumor and did an A/B comparison of a Dual Rec and Hot Rod 50, I could easily dial them to sound the same. Anyway, keep up the great content, and as always, Fuck You Glenn!
I wanted to make a very similar comment. Please could you do your tests with very different amps? I know some of them are not meant for metal but I'd be still interested in the result.
ola did such a test years ago, and they still sounded all "pretty much the same". he tested like 15 amps of various circuits
No kiddin’? I’ll have to find that video, thanks for the heads up man. 👍🤘🏻
@@jamesdaigle8690i think it is called "1 riff, 14 amps" or something. there are SOME differences, and 2 or 3 amps sound a lot different, because they are much fuzzier in their distortion or just are built completely different, but for the most part.... it is all the same.
@@MrMockigton @SonicDriveStudio has some great amp comparison, and yes you can hear some differences but also it's tricky because I guess if you want to really compare there are so many parameters to take into account (and to match) between EQ, Gain, Presence ...
Glenn, thanks so much for the info on how much difference the speakers and mic placement can make. I had no idea that it could effect the sound THAT much.
I've got 61 Bassman that I've used for 20 years. The only thing I ever change is the cab . It makes huge difference on stage. I even use it for bass on soul gigs with a 8x10 Ampeg. Glorious ! Great video.
Honestly can't wait for the video of you making the crate amp sound good with a better speaker. Although personally I think Crates sound fine, but I'm also a fan of Jensen speakers which many crates came with.
He tried it with a crate combo it didn't work crate sounded bad
Crate sounds fine imo, it might needs adjustments or one of those "peamp" pedals and skipping the Crate's drive stage.
I used to have a dirt cheap Watson 10w bass amp yyyears ago. Sounded shite in the room, so much sothat I barely used it. Then I read of producers like Massy and Robinson and how they suggested that mic placement could change everything. I found ways to make that amp work just through mic placement after that. I guess this is how good producers and engineers help bands achieve despite the shitty equipment.
Glen, I normally agree with everything you say, but in this instance, I have to respectfully disagree… Only because of my experience last night. I played the same song I wrote and recorded my new Mesa Rectifier Badlander 100w compared to my old Blackstar S1-100. Both run EL34 tubes, and they were running through the same 4x12 cab, same speakers, same cables, same SM57, same DI, same computer, same garage band settings, same guitar, same exact everything, except the head… And the difference was massive.
The Blackstar sounded very thin compared to how full the Mesa sounds when recorded. It blew my mind. I honestly wasn’t expecting it to be that noticeable, but the voicing is very different between them.
Could have just been my 2 amps, but there was a huge difference in my 2 amps. 🤷🏼
Remember he is stating this in a metal context.
When dealing with softer tones and not a ton of gain, the amp differences get bigger and bigger.
Could you share the sound clips. It's interesting. It could also be that the Blackstar needs the power tube replacement. Thin tone could be one sign of it.
@@hbo001 No, The tubes are fine. They’re not that old, and don’t have enough hours on them to be burned out. But I will try to upload a video of it sometime. The comparison between them was shocking to say the least. The Mesa just sounds so much more “full”, and the Blackstar was just super thin, which is exactly how its always sounded, but I just never noticed it until I played them directly side by side like that.
We’re not talking about Lady GA GA music son! Glenn is talking about metal!
it simply means the synergy of the amp / speaker combination sounds better to your ears but maybe not to someone else's...
Thanks Glenn for showing the drastic differences speakers make. I couldn’t get rid of a treble frequency in my Marshall dsl40cr with the stock speaker without turning the treble all the way down which gave me zero room to work with. I tried a few different speakers and found one that really gave me the sound I want. I took a very small loss on the resale of the other speakers but it was way cheaper than dropping hundreds or thousands more on a new amp.
Thank you for all your hard work. I agree with you. I was not able to hear a different in the samples you show. I prefer to use my time practizing my guitar to improve than wasting time on equipment
Oh my God, and I'm Christian. That small clip of the creamback to a greenback was a massive difference. I like the creambacks.
I liked that shift over too
Sir, your rational thought process and evidence has no business on the internet.
Thank you for spending so much time to teach people about music. I learn a lot from you and don't know how to repay you other than to click "subscribe".
Also, stay metal, dude. You rock.
G'day Glenn!!!!
This is possibly a really stupid question (when I get to it).
I've been on massive tone quest for years and have accuired a huge amount of different speakers and cabs, and have pretty much settled on closed back 2x12's (my favourite is a Marshall slant 2x12 2061x I got second hand) with a mix of Creamback M, H and Neo's. I mainly use a Marshall SV20H or a Mesa Mini Rec (Both sound pretty ballpark through the same cab to be honest - and I have recorded both with a looper pedal and a Captor X to test).
The question: What are the mics you have used that give the closest sound to what you're actually hearing in the room (taking into account mic placement etc)?
I absolutely love the guitar sound I have and struggle to have it sounding the same when recorded. Sennheiser e906 or the Lewitt you're currently using maybe? HELPPPPPPP!!!!!!
Thanks mate, love the content and f-you from Australia! Cheers.
So glad someone else experiments like this. I've been playing for 20 years and I'm still learning new things.
I am so glad you mentioned microphone placement in this. As I’ve always thought that once you have a mic, changing the position is the easiest (and honestly a kinda interesting) way to change your recorded guitar sound, rather than buying new gear. Tbh always felt it’s a little under represented😅
Love this!! Thanks for your deep dives into tone!
Now I know why I rang the bell for your videos...by far the best one so far
I am not a player at all more of a technical guy
The two tools you spoke to the reamp box and the analyzer software should be a no brainier for all musicians and tech guys like myself...bravo
Glenn you make a really good point there. I have a Marshall VS8100 that came with the original 4x12 budget Marshall cab that it was selling with at the time. I was kinda happy with the sound, but could use improvement. I swapped the original speaker for (gasp) Crate 4x12 which actually sounded better but was lacing low end so I swapped all the speakers to two Eminence and two GT12M-70 and padded the back - packed big time with acoustic foam and almost got there. Then I went to a friend's practice studio and plugged into his old ratty early 1970s Marshall cab that came with his Plexi...and it was an absolute "wow" moment. It was essentially the recorded Chuck Schuldiner sound. He wouldn't part with that cab for anything :)
We also swapped our bass player's guitar amp Crate combo speaker for a second hand Celestion that he got for cheap and that took the amp to a totally different level.
Man, this was fantastic Glenn. Thank you for putting this together!
THIS IS SO COOL!!!! My eyes got so damn wide listening to the greenback and creamback comparison. Wow!
Love your videos, and your energy. one very simple way I realised what you demonstrate cleverly and definitely here was with Sims. I own a cheap Hotone but even with it you see the impact of speaker and mike placement making huge shifts in frequency response. Yes I'm a guitarist but also and engineer (the mechanical type not sound type!), so I have this dual approach to things with the engineer always keeping the guitar player in check!
Another fine vid Glenn. In the mid 90s an engineer taught me to change speakers and pickups before changing guitar and amp. Her advice has saved me so much cash. 🤘🏼
Glen! Love the show! When you’re using the Lewit mic and angling the mic to show the importance of microphone placement, you have to be careful! When you angle the mic, you may be creating phasing issues if the capsules inside the mic are horizontally adjacent. You should make sure that they are vertically adjacent. If they are not place in the correct t position, the capsules are getting a significant distance difference from the speaker, and might (will) cause phasing issues.
Love your videos and efforts to help us make better choices! Cheers!
I chase a high headroom western swing to nearly as dirty as vintage grateful dead. Everything you said and demonstrated in this video is absolutely critical chasing clean tones as well.
Excellent presentation. Liked and subscribed. Plus you are entertaining as hell - and the editing on this is exemplary.
Western swing and grateful dead? Fantastic tastes
Glenn, fantastic video! I particularly liked the amp-to-amp comparison and just how similar they were. Something I'd love to see is how similar supposedly-identical speakers are e.g. comparing four Greenbacks from the same cab to see how closely their frequency response curves match each other (I don't know whether they try to match them at the factory). That way, we could see if those differences between a Creamback and Greenback always occur in the same part of the spectrum, and how much is due to natural variation/quality control. To be rigorous, you'd ideally want to do that for various other makes & models of speakers too, but the cost might be prohibitive.
Best explanation yet Glenn. Not too many variables and all of it was well documented. Thanks!
I've been playing since 92. I've always thought "Tone wood" was non sense. I've collected a number of guitars over the years, nope; I've found humbuckers sound one way, and single coils sound another way. You make wicked videos, and you've only solidified what I've already known in that regard. Just discovered you recently and subbed. Keep on trucking my friend, cheers from Northern Ontario.
I'm from North Bay Ontario if you're wondering where in Northern Ontario I'm from.
Cool to see what I had suspected all along, finally demonstrated in the studio. That dual microphone is pretty slick, too.
Glen, great video! While watching I noticed you have the Neve controlling the faders (at the least) in Reaper. I was wondering if you could do a video on how you are using the Neve with Reaper. And, the ins and outs of combining an Analog Desk with Reaper. I've used control surfaces with Reaper before which isn't always as easy as it should be. So, I'm curious how you're using the Neve to control Reaper. Thanks.
And, thank you for taking the time to demonstrate things so clearly with solid evidence leaving no room for opinions. Congrats.
😮 maybe the second most important video on REAL TONE ISSUES I've ever seen. Right behind the guy who remove all tone wood and set up strings and a pickup between two workbenches proving the pickup is the biggest factor in the guitar. So now between these two videos I've seen that the pickup and the speaker are probably the biggest factors. And of course Mic choices and placement. Well done sir.
i have seen that as well, eye opening stuff. The same guy tracked down what makes the biggest change in tone in an amplifier and in a cabinet. If you haven't watched yet check them out
your fingers, playing style, tuning, phrasing, how you hold the pick, etc... are way more important than the pickup!
And this is why I watch your channel! Thank you!! I can't afford the high end gear but I have been wondering why my otherwise kick ass peavy 12x1 combo sounds like dog crap compared to my Ampeg 12x1.. I might play around this weekend and swap the speaker from the AMpeg to the peavy and see how it sounds - you rock!!
Love it.
On tubes/valves? Only difference is build quality and that can differ from factory where they are made.
Totally agree.
Love the part you outsmarted us switching amps in the clip, I really enjoyed that with a big hell yes!
Excellent tutorial on how to make adjustments to my sound. Thank you.😊
So I actually decided to test this out using Neural DSP's amp sims. I used Archetype Nolly's 5150 on one channel and a Mesa Boogie on the other channel (the black amp head). I made sure to turn off everything except the amp heads on both and set all of the dials of each amp head at "high noon". I then had both channels go through a 3rd Neural DSP plugin with only the cabinet activated (I believe it was the Archetype Nolly "American" Cabinet). Even with amp simulators, both sounded virtually identical outside of some ever-so-slight gain variations.
I guess it's time for me to learn my cabinets and mics better. At least in the amp sim world each offering doesn't cost a lot in the grand scheme of things and you often do get different cabinets and mics.
Thanks for reminding me it's not the amp that sucks, it's me!
Seriously badass video, thanks for the insight; I'm not super into tone chasing, but it was cool to see how just recording the same amp in a different way can get you all sorts of different of sounds 👍🏽
It's so true. The speaker cab can often be overlooked in how important it is in the equation for achieving the tone that we are chasing. I know, because I've been there.
This is not only a great reminder, but it's proof of how much difference speakers can make.
Thank you.
Hello, Glenn! For some rescent years, i've got almost all the same conclusions about guitar gear as you. Done dozens of blind tests for my friends, miced crappy wideband speakers which sounded pretty well in the mix, matched them to some IRs and they sounded even better and so on. BUT! Few days ago i was in our studio with my brother to test some DIY loadbox i've made, and we've got some very interesting results i wasn't expecting. We've got Marshall DSL20 and Peavey 6505 Mini and they sound VEEEEERY different through the loadbox. Also the signal in very different, i think due to schematics topology and stuff - Marshall has very assymetrical signal, presence and resonance aren't doing much on Marshall, and cranking up the output knob on Peavey above halfway doesn't rise line input signal. First time working with loadbox and will definetely make some more tests of how other tube amps will behave. Still i don't think it even matters - either you like the result or not, doens't matter how it was achieved.
Hi, I liked the video and absolutely agree with it, just a few cheaper options to add that one can try in a home studio with little or no money. I own the same amp I've got like 15 years ago (a Peavey VK112 of which I think you'll find no serious records in my channel because I don't upload serious records here, just stuff to share with my friends and such, mainly recorded with my cheap cellphone). I do use an EQ as a master volume control - since the amp doesn't have one and I don't want my neighboors to kill me - at the end of my effects chain which goes trhu the amp's FX loop, therefore affects the amp's distortion, so that's one thing to try without changing the speaker. From the EQ I split the signal using a dual DI box - which also serves me as a speaker mute if I wanna make records at three in the morning by changing the mode from LNK to 2CH -, the 6.3 output goes to the FX return and the XLR output goes to my DAW in which I - and here's the other cheap/free option depending on what you choose - of course add an IR cabinet and can make all sort of adjustments 'til I get the sound I want. I use STL Tones NadIR (the one that's free and comes with 6 or 8 free IRs but you can add more either by purchasing them or recording them yourself) and it's usually more than enough to alter the sound in more ways than I could ever need. Funny video, accurate content, subscribed, liked. Regards.
really great video- really shows the reality...one of my major "a-ha" moments in the past 2 years was the realization that everything we set-up sound-wise as guitarists for live/recording get affected by the speaker, but always a microphone...
I'm lazy. I don't like looking over the back of my amp in the dark upside-down to swap cables, much less moving heads around.
To your point, I will repeat the best advice I ever received. When I walked into Centaur Guitars in Portland, OR, looking for a pedal I saw on CZcams, the owner asked me what I was trying to achieve. I was trying to make a cheap practice amp sound like a Dumble by using a pedal. I was young and inexperienced. With an exasperated patient sigh, refused to sell me the pedal. He said to get a Peavey Classic 30 and spend my money on swapping tubes, speakers and pickups. Find out what I SOUND LIKE. This is the the day I was told that uncomfortable truth about how much tone comes from the player and the fingers. This meant that it would be impossible to buy my abilities. I was going to have to learn, practice and develop my ear. I have settled on a 1967 Bassman with a "Marshalized" bass channel through a pro Marshall 4x12 with vintage 30s. I have a few basic pedals for reverb, delay and OD.
...I still get the itch to buy something that sounds better for someone else, because I'm lazy. I like the idea that there's a magic wand that will make me sound the way I want without effort. I'm lazy.
You are so right, speaker & cabinet is where all the fun is
. Thank you !
But you should compare cabinet with different wood thickness.
I have a 2x12 with v30 with 5/8" or 3/4" wood and a Seismic Luke-2x12 with v30 that is ½ inch thick.
In the room the sound so different I had to double check to make sure something was not wrong with my wiring.
Glenn, Love your tone analysis videos. I'm a guitarist of 50+ years and a Test Engineer. At first, I was torn down the center; gear snob versus scientific analyst regarding the impact of speaker versus amp. I've owned, and still own some fairly high-end gear. I finally feel vindicated in that I couldn't hear the differences in amps, pickups, tone woods, etc., that all of the pros said I should. Your videos have done two things for me: 1) I now know that my ears weren't lying to me for all of these years. 2) I won't feel the need to drop thousands of dollars on any future amp purchases. I've always thought that the lowly Orange Super Crush 100 sounded great. But, now I feel like I can purchase one and not feel like a pariah or leper in the guitar community.
Love the breakdown with receipts! Could you do something like that for different tubes like 6L6 vs KT77 vs EL34? I would love to see what that actually looks like frequency wise.
The video makes some good points on the impact of speakers and mic placement. And it shows that with some EQing and tweaking you can make two similar sounding high gain amps sound indistinguishable within a mix and with compressed sound quality from youtube. However, the point of having different amps is to get different sounds that other amps are not capable of producing. Especially when it comes to clean and edge of breakup sounds I don't think a 5050 or Rectifier will give you a Vox or Orange sound.
I totally get it . I've gone back and forth on all sorts of stuff . String gauge / material , pickups in and out of guitars , etc . Even different amplifiers. Placement of different effects in the chain and the eq settings which do change things . I have considered changing the speakers in my cabinets but didn't.
Great vid, but what speaker / cabinet shall I use with a Kemper Head? Something cheap but good - any recomandations?
14:30 this portion sparked a question. As an example, I have two Harley Benton cabs now, both 2x12 one with vintage 30's and one with cream backs. I'm curious if there's an A/B box that would work for cabs switching between cabs. I just play guitar I don't know the electronic aspects and if there's anything special with the signal going from the amp to the cab, asking out of ignorance and wanting to learn. I'm thinking that (and possibly not with these two cabs) that I'd like to be able to switch between the separate cabs one for metal one for cleans. (Yes I know I'd have to switch to a clean channel as well, i'm not *that* damn dumb ;) ) With the speakers making this much of a difference, it would lead me to believe some speakers would be better for cleans and less for metal. Certainly no longer feels like one size fits all.
This is a really informative video! I have never really thought about my speakers. But then don't we find ourselves debating over cabs? 2x10 versus 4x12 versus this kind of wood or that wood?
I’ve only ever played through digital amps but my assumption is that as long as you’re comparing two amps which are of similar styles to each other like a dual rectifier and a 5150(both hi gain amps) the main difference is the speaker, however if you compare like a fender amp to a 5150 it’s gonna be a challenge to get the same tone however it is most likely possible with some experimentation with pedals different speakers and mic position I would be interested to see an episode on that tho. Much love for what you do on this channel ❤❤❤