so you sent your precious film to a lab ... the truth about developing and scanning film (re-edit)
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- čas přidán 21. 05. 2024
- Many people have no idea what happens at film labs when processing and scanning your film. It's important for you to understand this so that you can think about the results you are getting. Film labs are essential since it's impractical for everyone to develop/scan their own film and home. They also have cool fuji frontier scanners. I visited Analogue Wonderland outside of London and they gave me a sneak peak at their process.
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0:00 Intro
0:57 developing your color film
3:35 into the MACHINE!
4:54 it comes out DRY
6:02 HUGE scanning machine
7:36 the biggest SECRET about scanning
9:12 these computers are OLD
9:52 black and white film is completely different
11:42 the ideal customer
14:16 outro - Věda a technologie
Ribsy, this took me back a couple of decades. I spent 33 years working for a pro lab in the USA. So I've seen and done just about all of it. I've hand-processed B&W, E6, C41, and more. I ran a digital scanning lab that churned out 7-9 high resolution portrait scans every 4 seconds. So I thought this was rather quaint.
But it's typical... Labs still use equipment from the early 2000s because that's all there is. A lot of the things you see in commercial labs are no longer made in 2022. And a lot of the labs that were around in 2002 (the one I worked for included) are no longer around!
The process they demonstrated for you was much the same all over the world 20 years ago!
Good to know! Crazy this process hasn’t changed
30 years from now we'll be reduced to developing glass plates. - my fear 😨
Thanks for that perspective. Still a few labs in SF Bay Area. They are small. The big ones fell by the way of the pixel onslaught as pros changed mediums.
@@melotone3305 Why do you think we'll be reduced to developing glass plates in 30 years ?
@@melotone3305 They still sell brand new scanners today, they're just not as efficient. If all of these broke, 30 years from now they could be using 2024 scanners instead and just charging a bit more because it's slower.
I've actually sent my film to the guys at Wonderlab coupla dyas ago - one Portra 800 and one 400. It was very interesting to meet the team behind that. Excited to see the scans. Also I always wondered why BW is more expensive to develop than colour... now I see why. Thanks for that Ribsy!
Thanks for watching!
That's interesting...over here B&W is cheaper to develop or the same at places I send to.
I really miss the one hour photo lab that Walgreens and CVS had back in the days.
I used to work in a mass photo lab when I was 18. We used to put each roll into this big machine which bulk loaded each roll into a light proof spool. From there the spools went into a dark room to be processed. Complete darkness. We never saw who worked in there.
haha sounds creepy
This brought me back! I worked at Photographic Works in Flagstaff as the color tech for a few years. Unfortunately they closed due to digital taking over. Those were hard times for those of us working in labs.
It can't be understated that these machines are the safest way to develop color. The last time I developed c41 at home I didn't have the best ventilation and I got a nosebleed. Be careful out there yall!
Wow! Sounds terrible
Might have been stress related, some kind of rare allergy or just a coincedence. Never had any bad reaction to C41 chems in decades of developing
Your video is really informative and easy to watch :) loved the pace and the amount of work you did put into this!! Thx a lot
Thanks for watching!
That was fun to watch, thanks!
The video didn't mention this but I think it is a good demonstration of why finding a lab you like and then becoming a regular customer is very helpful for both you and for the lab. You will learn a bit better what to expect from your film and the lab can learn how they can get you what you want your negs to look like. Having a conversation with the lab about what you are trying to get on your film can be useful toward that goal as well.
For example, maybe it is something as simple as "I used a pale orange filter for this roll because I wanted to warm things up a bit." which would let them know that they should not try to "correct" that.
Or it might be something like "I just got the camera and I'm still learning how good the shutter is, so please don't correct for exposure errors."
Basically, I think that because there are SO many variables in making a good photograph, finding a good and consistent lab is very important because that will minimize some of those variables and let you spend more time thinking about what's in front of your lens and how you are going to make a photo of it.
Thank you for sharing this with us!
Yea that would be useful for some
Thank you for taking the time for this.. Great video.
thanks for watching!
I feel their pain needing to match computer hardware/software to the scanner. I am doing my black and white scanning on a 2004 Powermac G5. That computer is immortal! Another great insightful video.
Thanks for watching
Very interesting and fun to watch. Cool to see the old Frontier scanner still doing.
yea exactly!
That was awesome!!! Love the two people working there.
yea they are super fun!
That was so cool! Thank you for making this video.
Thanks for watching!
Awesome video! I just sent my first roll off to the Wonderlab the other week - was very happy with the scans and whole process! Got two rolls being processed by them currently, very cool to see their setup :)
awesome! sounds like a good experience
It’s cool to see different lab equipment, as Indie Film Lab in the US (which SmarterEveryDay visited) uses Dip & Dunk
Yea I’m very curious about dip and dunk
Just came across your channel man, love everything about it!
thank you! much appreciated
thank you! much appreciated
Thanks, Ribsy, that is fascinating!
Glad you enjoyed
That was great! :)
It also show that the old lab scanners gets some service and gets to live another day so that they don't end in and electronic recycling!
Have a good week!
Agreed! Love seeing machines keep living
SP3000's are expensive to keep running if a board fails, but there’s nothing that can replace it color quality and speed wise- Except for a Noritsu hs-1800 which is even more expensive. The technology in these scanners are insane, even if they are getting old!
wow.. very interesting episode as I didn't know how they develop as well! thanks for sharing! I need to test out your film on my channel as well :)
yea def!
Brilliant. I must say, I used to develop and print all my own work at home, but the convenience of sending it off to be developed and scanned is just a lot less hassle for me. I'm a documentary photographer and just don't have the time to do it all anymore.
That's why it's so important for people to keep supporting good companies who provide high quality development, scanning and print services.
Another solid video mate, love it. Reminds me of the smell of the darkroom (that I don't miss at all 😂).
Yea the convenience is key
This is amazing! thank you for showing how a lab works!
glad you enjoyed it!
I work in a lab in brighton and the set up there is very similar we have a sp3000 and it's a great scanner.
We have an ilford FP40 which is a black and white Roller Transport processor which is pretty unique, makes black and white a LOT easier.
Everyone saying "what if something breaks" there is actually a huge parts market, the machines are actually all pretty simply designed so they're easy to fix it;s just getting the parts can sometimes be a pain.
yuup - repairs are part of the process 😅
Awesome. All this equipment I of course also see here in Japan in the labs I go to. Hopefully these labs can manage repairs and such ok. I imagine that can get quite expensive if something breaks..
Lol yea, the equipment is mad finnicky and shit breaks often I imagine
This was really interesting!. I still use traditional scanning with a Jobo. I was wondering if the were mixing in camera scanning yet, and this answered that! I find that the time saved scanning with with a camera, I lose it because I end up spending more time in post getting to a final output vs Silverfast. This process looks very similar to my XAs automatic batch scanning. Thanks! for this!
Glad it was useful!
At home, it's a lot easier to just listen when you rewind the film for when it pops off the reel, then do a half turn or so and open the back before you fully spool it into the can in the first place
Awesome & Thanks :)
thank you
Jaw dropping video, thank you very much, makes me more and more hell bent on developing my film at home and complete my darkroom project.
good luck with the build!
very interesting video. Back in the day I worked at a professional photo lab for a number of years. I was in the film processing dept. I processed 35mm film, 120 roll film, sheet film and we had a machine that handled long rolls of 35mm bulk film. I processed only color film, E-6 and C-41. The machines were dip and dunk machines. I also did clip tests per the customer's instructions. I pushed and/or pulled film too as per customer's instructions. I would mount 35mm slide film in either cardboard, plastic or glass mounts depending on customer instructions. I processed the film of a lot of professional photographers. And of course I processed my own E-6 and C-41 films. It was an interesting job and I enjoyed it.
Thanks
Hey Ribsy, I’ve learnt that doing it at home takes more effort and takes a longer process but it’s all done by me. That was the journey I chose to walk. Black and white only of course. I don’t dare dabble into colors. Colors I will send to the lab :) glad we have machines to help us with colors. My only fear is that there might not be anyone to take over the very old uncle here where I send my films to.
Color is easy - give it a shot
It was cool to see younger folks working a this lab- that person to take over- it could be you!
Great video, I've just bought a Canon AV-1 analogue SLR I've watched your videos on the Kodak Vision 3 500T and 250D and just ordered some rolls, but I don't know how to develop the film into negatives. Have you done a video for beginners on how to develop film, please?
Definitely going to continue hone scanning my film, never realised that they colour corrected them until recently, I would love one of those scanners tho, soo much quicker than an epson
Yea home scanning is a great alternative
@@ribsy I did find that my last roll of superia came out a little green, but interesting to see the difference
Very exciting video, as usual. Best regards from a french photographer + Yashica 124.
thanks for watching!
Another lab to try is Silverpan in Bristol. Lovely team also
Yea I’ve heard good things
very interesting to see what's happening in a real lab...thank you for sharing! ...Do the fuji brand colour developing machines only develop fuji films or all brands?
they develop all c41 brands with the same machine
@@ribsy thanks for that!
That's pretty accurate, though, I use a JOBO for all three processes at my lab (c-41, e-6, and BW) and I use Ilford Ilfotec replenished DD for black and white instead of XTOL.
Cool!
Great video! Love the commentary - "when i do this at home in the dark, i rip it apart like a savage." lol
Haha it’s the truth!
My local lab stopped doing their dev instore last year when their Fuji breaks. They are still doing the scanning process and let the main store do the dev (24/36hours for C41 and 5/6days for B&W or slides).
I am not doing the dev at home because I have small space and disposing of chemicals is not feasible in my area, but I have switched to home scan for 35mm (thanks to Plustek) and I am planning to get an Epson for 120 since:
Quality of lab scan is not great, the file is small and it cost 600 JPY (5/6USD) for a CD, in some labs you can have a better scan but not high resolution for 200/300JPY per photo.
The price of a scanner can be covered in a year, with less CD junk and better photo scans.
Anyway, really nice video again Ribsy.
A good scanner is def worth the price!
Would that be a Plustek 8100? I’ve heard good things about them. I went the cheaper route and got the Epson V600. I am very pleased with the results I get scanning my 35mm negatives.
@@ribsy Another great video! Thanks.
@@henryrogers5500 I bought the Plustek 8200ai for my 35mm scan and it is wonderful. I am doing all the post processing in Lightroom so I just scan the raw negative film and that's it.
Since for my 120 the lab scans are not great, I am thinking of scanning at home.
The Plustek 120 is impossible to find so option for home scanning 120 films are either flatbed scan (epson v600/gt-x830 or v700/gt-x970) or dslr scan.
But cost wise the v600 is the less expensive for me.
I wish there was more options
@@gregory519 GTX??!! Sounds like a Plymouth muscle car from 1969! I had a cherry all-original ‘69 Plymouth Roadrunner. Loved it! I was under the impression that you could scan 120 negatives with Plustek scanners. I’m sure you would get better results with the Plustek, being a more high end scanner, but with some very minor post editing in LR or PS (I use PS) you’ll still get excellent results with any of those Epson models you’ve mentioned. I love my V600! Also, I’ve never been a fan of lab scans, although, I do get prints from the lab. Happy shooting and scanning!
1:30 I have a film retriever, and it usually takes me about 3-7 tries to actually get a film lead out. Fortunately, I now own the greatest 35mm film camera of all time, the Minolta Alpha 9, which has a setting to leave an inch or two of film out when it rewinds.
I hate film retrievers haha
@@ribsy that's why I love the A9. My film retriever just collects dust now.
Friday, my Epson V550 shows up, and I'm stoked to scan some film. Thanks for the videos you did on it!
From the viewpoint of an art photographer who does not churn out many rolls of b/w 135 and 120 and 4 x 5, my Jobo processor is automation and my Nikkor or dip and dunk tanks are manual processing. I have no use for scan services since I select only a few images to print and use an old Epson 2450 when I need a digital. Otherwise, it's Mr. Bessler or Mr. Durst. Incredible to think there are a few who still perform photography all by themselves with the aid of the magic of chemistry and running water. However, when I view the results, I just can't see another way. Cheers!
in analog there is unique pathway for each person
Very cool
thanks!
Great video! Although doesn't taking the film out from the canister that way lead to scratching? Also, how can they be sure they can safely expose the first part of the film? Suppose someone loaded film in the dark, or someone sent a disposable camera roll, then some shots would be lost
I think their process was quite standard. And that first part of the film is essential for machine processing so people shouldn’t expect to get that fully image
@@ribsy Yeah I imagined it was standard. But then how does a lab deal with disposables with 27 shots that do use that first part?
The film goes into the canister in the same exact way when loaded. Then it goes out (in the same way) every time you take a shoot, then it goes back into the canister once again when you rewind the film. Can’t believe people still think that pulling out film with a retriever could scratch the film!
Great vid. Subed.
Welcome aboard
That fujifilm machine is awesome
Haha yup! A beast
After the local developer goes, we have to send our film rolls to a larger commercial for processing, but it is not really good. They break my two film reels. Also, I noticed a light leak that I think is from their machine issues. This is why I got the JOBO development kit and do it at home this year.
doing at home is good
Funny seeing Kiro 400 at a lab in london! Shout out to Film never die one of Melbournes many local labs!
Yea!
Thank you, now I finally understand why developing b/w in a lab usually costs more than color, i never understood the reason!
Well, the extra cost still makes no sense, considering that they use a single developer (Xtol which is far from being a general purpose one) for every bnw roll that they get. The extra step is only taking the negs to where the colour ones are 🤣 they don’t even need to invert the tank due to the nature of the Jobo system.
@@ivandimarco2004 yes, but the process takes a lot more time and responsibility from the person who's developing it. It's not just "take the roll and put it in the large fujifilm machine", they actually use tanks in which they have to manually insert the film (with the risk of exposing it to light ruining it) and choose and change regularly the chemicals, quantities and time to use during the process. It is much more "human controlled" than the color version, and more various since you can develop only the same type of rolls together, so the amount of responsibility and the work to do is a lot and I think you pay for that, not just for the chemicals used.
Agreed! BW is less efficient since they can just keep feeding the machine
There’s also the drying step that doesn’t get taken care of by the jobo, it’s a very delicate step and can take over an hour to do.
@@loganb43 And what about dust ?
Great stuff……
Thanks 😊
I need to get my hands on some of those. Not cheap I assume. But eh I can dream eh. Amazing for old tech. Everything stopped evolving at the dawn of digital...
Yea so much old equipment
Another fantastic video and I have nothing but good things to say about AW.
However I must admit I just could not bring myself to send b&w film off to be developed by a lab, Its like losing out on 50% of the joy and more so the control.
Yea I do it myself as well. I enjoy it
Does anyone know what the special tape for labelling is called?
hmm not sure
The labels are called "twinchecks". The tape is called "splicing tape" and it's sold by Technotape in various sizes and lengths.
I had a bad experience with the Wonderlab when it opened, but to give them their due, they apologised, gave a full refund and I understand had to do quite a lot before they could re-open again. I will give them another go, just not yet.
growing pains are inevitable
Fascinating ! Cheers Ribsy ….nice people but they can keep there automated machines …I’ll keep taking over the kitchen on a sat night enjoying a beer and few tunes whilst practicing my latest exotic agitation technique ….Happy Days.
glad you enjoyed this
A big shoutout to The Darkroom in California in the USA they have been doing my film for years and a great job they do.
yup!
Interesting.
yup!
Awesome video!!
….The guy with the blonde hair is so fit though
haha
How do they print photos?
digital prints
@@ribsy oh, I prefer chemical prints
What machine are they using for BW exactly?
Jobo ATL 1500 :)
what he said
The darkroom guy was such a cool dude lol
haha yea
Develop at home and use a darkroom or Epson scan and inkjet.
Much better than any lab I’ve ever used.
Oh and make good pictures.
we are lucky to have all that
1:50 - it's sufficient to just use another film roll. Lick about 1cm of it, stick it into the roll which was wound too much and yank. Works in 80% at first try.
Only works sometimes for me
Interesting. I haven't used a Film Camera since 2008.
its very popular now
Yeah, this is why I scan at home with my Pacific Image, which is kind of a miniature setup of the scanner shown, it also batch scans whole rolls frame by frame, with a nominal resolution of up to 10000dpi, but really the effective resolution is 5000dpi, in 48bit DNG RAW for color film (including the IR layer for dust/scratch correction).
Yea that scanner sounds great
Really interesting. Somehow I thought it would be greater mass production and less human interference. Bit like in the film '1 Hour Photo' with Robin Williams.
Yeaaa things have def changed from 20 years ago
depends on the lab, checkout smarter every days video on film processing. its a much bigger operation
Somebody has to design a better scanning set up and software for these people! I know we have better tech in 2022
Not really they don't make as much anymore
@@larson0014 yeah someone should make something knew with our new technology
I fully agree! We need innovation
I'd love to know how they got their jobs at the lab?
Check the website and see if anything is available!
@@ribsy Oh I'm not wanting to do it, just wonder how they got there.
The lab tech making "creative decisions" is why I always order film "develop only."
thats fair. its a choice
Yooooo I'm on the internet!!!!!!
haha yessir!
Those machines are over 20 years old man. What happens if they break down?
You gotta fix them if they break lol
A process running from dry to dry is clearly not the official "C-41" chemistry or process. I'd sure like to see the densometric data from a set of Kodak control strips run a machine like this one.
i'm not sure what this means
@@ribsy he just means using a scientific way to verify that the film has been correctly processed.
Also Kodak’s C-41 specification has plenty of documentation for roller-transport machines like this, so it’s very “official” and the processor will give perfect results if the lab adjusts settings on it to dial it in.
@@ribsy Let me expand. The C-41 process in latest form involves at least four active chemical steps, taking with interim washes 10-12+ minutes, then a final wash to clear fixer from the emulsion. There should be no way that process can be compressed into 2 minutes, which unless I totally misunderstood is what they were saying their machine would do, including a final drying process. The implication is that they are running some non-C-41 chemical process there. In concept, perhaps something like the 2-bath "C-41" process emulations sold by Tetenal, Unicolor, etc, in their DIY kits. So, I suggested that it might be interesting to run C-41 process control strips through their process to see how closely, or not, that process tracks the official C-41 process in terms of color accuracy and density. For those unfamiliar with control strips, they are pre-exposed strips of 35mm color film manufactured and sold by Kodak for use by film processing labs. The lab runs a strip through their processing machine, then reads the test patches on the strip with a densitometer and compares those readings with the densities an accurately processed strip should read. Of more general interest might be to do the same comparisons for those popular DIY kits.
@@randallstewart175 this machine develops rolls in 10-12 minutes, not the shorter time quoted. It uses a waterless washing method using 3 stabilizer baths- Fuji did the science, but I imagine it’s not completely perfect. Fuji has control strips for their chemicals, using a Kodak control strip would read very off. If enough film is run through a self replenishing roller transport machine it should remain in pretty close control, close enough for digital scanning. Dip n dunk is preferred but roller transport is what the majority of labs use around the world.
These C-41 film processors are designed to use C-41 chemistry from different manufacturers so a Fuji film processor can use Kodak chemistry. The replenishment rates vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Control Strips are run through the film processor and read on a densitometer and then these values are plotted on a control chart after applying the correction factors supplied by the manufacturer for the batch of control strips you are using. The plotted numbers have a range of control values that will tell you if the chemistry is in tolerance (in control) for the C-41 process. If the plots are “out of control” then there is typically a problem with either the chemistry mixing, the replenishment of the chemistry, the circulation of the chemistry or the temperature of the chemistry.
90% of film labs all over the world are using film processors just like the one in this video with the exception of the few labs that use dip and dunk machines, but the C-41 chemical process is still the same.
Why Closed Caption is not available? ada legal closed captioning. Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)
Closed captioning or video transcriptions are required for: “Public entities,” including state and local governments, in both internal and external video communication. “Places of public accommodations,” which are public or private businesses used by the public at large
I’m not required to put captions. They usually happen automatically
Your videos don't have any captions either, Ruben
it's not cheaper when you do it at home. they overprice AF
I live in Europe, my dev shop, makes only c41 and usually takes 4 days to receive the film and the scan, it is located in a mall so top rent :) price for dev- less the 4 euros- price for "high scan" around 8-9 euros, it is a "fuji brand" store
Actually I can develop at hope cheaper then that, because guess what, chemicals are also overpriced :)) they are what 50-100€ for a c41 dev kit? I bet they are worth 10e.
doing at home is def cheaper especially in the long run, especially if you are doing good volume
@@ribsy well like I said it depends on one actual circumstances.
Here even the biggest shop (thing of bnh-like shop) has prices that are just 2-5% larger then just the price of the chemicals.
even in the rest of the E.U. prices are not much larger then that,
I don't think that anyone really shoot film . or even cameras to make "economy" .
But aren't developers and fixers in the sewer an environmental hazard, especially for a company that dumps so many of them? Isn't there a responsible collection and disposal policy?
No, they are not.
@@jebemligashta Mmm...
Yea, professional labs use waste companies for this
Developer goes down the drain. Fixer and Stabilizer is supposed to go into a Silver Recovery Unit before the chemistry goes down the drain to recover the silver from the chemistry. Labs are supposed to have a silver recovery unit.
Basic lab service. Far away from top places like Carmencita or photovision or others.
Not sure what more you want. Maybe picking your own developer?
@@ribsy to be honest I cannot see any decent lab in the UK. Prefer to send it over to Carmencita in Spain.
Carmentica is using the same scanner as this lab 😉 All of the film labs all over the world are using either a Noritsu scanner, a Fuji Scanner or a DSLR setup to take pictures of the film.
At the end of the day whoever is doing the scanning of the film is deciding what the film scan will look like.
No point in shooting film now the price of film skyrockted and it doesn't make any sense. Now
Shoot BW
I would disagree. It’s not THAT expensive! All hobbies cost money. Nothing to complain about.
As a hobby it’s not that expensive, if your output is going to be similar to digital it could be expensive but if you’re selective it’s a reasonably priced choice.
It's crazy that film is getting popular again but most labs are still using these 90s vibe machines to scan them 😂
Haha yea … waiting for some innovation there
they for the most part have the best color accuracy and speed since fujifilm makes them and now it's mostly epson
Ah, so that’s why black and white is more expensive to develop at my lab than color. Now I just do my HP5 and whatnot at home, leave the color to folks like these!
Yup - BW is more tedious
Will never send my negatives to a lab! Developing at home is cheaper and you get often better results due to dedicated and fresh chemistry. Also, get your work scanned is like somebody else working on your images and making decisions on something that should be a personal and creative process. Doesn’t matter how good the technician is.
Sounds good
@@ribsy Except a good scanner is expensive...
I feel like anyone who is still shooting film is going to understand what the development process involves regardless of whether or not they own the equipment necessary to do it themselves. If they don't then they probably have no legitimate reason to be shooting film and are just hipster idiots in vintage Nirvana t-shirts from Urban Outfitters.
Those “hipster idiots” are helping keep film alive by spending money
@@ribsy Good reply! I won’t knock anyone who shoots with film. The more the merrier!
Wow at 60 I’ve just become a ‘hipster idiot’ :)