Amber Heard & The Myth of the Perfect Victim
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2023
- One year later, we revisit the trial that metastasized through society, leaving a culture of misogyny in its wake. NBC journalist Kat Tenbarge helps us navigate a story not just about Amber Heard, but about our misunderstanding of abuse, tabloid spectacles, influencers, and money. It is also a story about Amber Heard.
Kat’s work:
www.nbcnews.com/author/kat-te...
/ kattenbarge
Find more of A Bit Fruity: / abitfruitypod
Find more of Matt: / mattxiv
Produced by Samantha Land: / samalander
Edited by Justin Bretter: / fieldsobriety
24/7 National Domestic Violence Support Hotline: 1-800-799-7233 - Zábava
I didn’t watch the trial but seeing all the misogynistic memes and comments about her was really disturbing. Even if she was a total liar, sexist comments are never appropriate.
You must be proud to be so ignorant.
Most women knowAmber is a liar. Nice try tho.
@@todd3563 no they don’t, you just wish they would. #justiceforamberheard
@@Cauldron6 Amber would use someone like you and toss you way when you were no longer useful to her.
@@todd3563 ok Todd
I'll never forget the moment when I saw people sharing the picture of Amber Heard using a tissue on the witness stand where someone was claiming that she was snorting cocaine and they just...immediately believed it. Without a single second thought. That she was sitting there, in a court of law, feet away from the judge, snorting coke. That was when it truly dawned on me how far gone people were with the brain worms brought on within this zeitgeist. And anytime I brought up how absurd it was all getting, I got treated like the crazy one.
In the same camp as "she chopped his finger off!" Like. How are you dumb enough to believe that?
It all became insane didn't it ??? I bet he absolutely loved the pain he was causing , he's so disgusting but karma will get him , he's old fat and a drunk and vicious , so good luck to the next woman he dates , actually I hope no one dates him ever again .
"Wah!! Wah!! Oh, amber is such a victim because she has a vagina and Johnny doesn't. WAH!" 😭
- feminist logic 101
Worst part is she was telling her story about being raped
And even at that moment vile men and women took shots at her
It was brutal
I cried my eyes out for her.
How easily could you believe that Amber took a literal SHIT on Depp's bed? She is clearly a monster and damaging to all women. She made it less likely that the next woman stepping forward is gonna be believed. Who the fuck cares about people thinking she did coke? Fuck off with your useless moral grandstanding.
Without getting into specifics, I have trauma from growing up with a mentally ill parent with anger issues. During my teen years I felt like I was literally going insane/losing my grip on reality due to the stress of living with them. When me and my roommate were talking about the trial and I expressed sympathy for Heard, they said “I just can’t imagine being so angry at someone that I act violent” and I replied “I can” because I remember how helpless and desperate I felt. They looked at me like I was a monster. People cannot understand what abuse victims go through.
Sorry you went through that. Reactive "abuse" is real -- real emotions from the impossibly difficult situation nearly impossible to escape from. Hugs!
Self defence is involuntary. Unfortunately despite it being well known that when in danger you fight or flight, people always forget the fight part. You can't undo millions of years of evolution just because society deems it unacceptable.
Just because you're a victim, doesn't make Amber one.
So, I was sexually assaulted as a teenager and I spoke up about it and I was the only person in that situation who suffered any real consequences. When I saw the amount of dog piling happening on Amber Heard I felt both resigned and disappointed that in the fifteen years since my SA that nothing has really changed. I'm so sorry that you were failed the same way that I was Amber.
I haaaate how we often blame/punish the victim while letting the perpetrator off without any consequences. Ppl say “if they were actually assaulted why didn’t they speak up earlier” uhhhh maybe because society proves time and time again that they don’t help victims and often cause harm to the victims😔
It's Johnny Depp that was failed here, from 2016 on, not Amber Heard. She at least punched him twice in the face, one time she has admitted on tape, another was confirmed by a witness. There probably was more, it seems to have been a pattern. She admitted on tape she threw stuff at him. She also admitted on tape to have smashed his finger by throwing a large bottle at him. On the other hand, none of her allegations against him were found to have any merit in the US trial.
I don't get how some survivors still see an ally in her, she is herself someone who has physically hurt people.
I'm sorry you have been failed and suffered consequences for speaking up about your experience. But she is not your ally, and she hasn't been failed but failed everyone else.
except in this case she was not the victim but the perpetrator. I'm sorry for what you went through, but who you should identify with is not Amber, but Johnny Depp in this situation. He spoke up but was not believed for a very long time, which ruined his life until he got justice with this trial.
@@bilibili68EXCELLENT COMMENT 👌 👏 PERFECTLY SAID 👌 👏
@bilibili68 what ass hat comes to a video like this for the sole purpose of dismissing someone's sa experiences? Touch grass dude.
I was a child victim of abuse and I fought back. Even children fight back.
It’s completely natural. “Fight or flight” is constantly talked about, what did people think “fight” meant? I’m so sorry you went through that.
Some people it seems, are all for supporting victims and believing women until it means condemning a celebrity they like
*believing PEOPLE
I believe amber heard donate Jonny Depp money 🤑💰
@@gilly_axolotlnah it’s believing women.. because men have always been believed as a status quo.. women are the people who are constantly not believed. Don’t “all lives matter” this shit.
I never liked Johnny enough to ignore abuse. I believe(d) him because I thought he was a victim and the trial coverage made it look like Amber physically hurt him on a number of cases. I think victims should always be listened to regardless of gender, and I thought this was a case where a male victim benefited from MeToo. Not a case of the movement failing.
I think it's telling how Matt kept calling him Jack Sparrow because that's actually who he is in most people's minds. Someone flawed but ultimately with a good heart and that's what they clung to, even if Jack is just a character and we have no idea how gaslighting and manipulative he might be IRL. They just saw this much younger woman they didn't really know come after their favourite pirate and they just sided with him because they thought they knew what kind of man he is (and also because bashing women is a universal sport in most modern civilisations)
it was so scary you couldn't stand up for her without being bombarded with hate during the trial
not even defend her but if you even disagreed a little bit people went insane
All who stand up for what's good get bombarded by hate
and even before the trial. she’s always had a small amount of supporters/fans who have been receiving death threats for years, i was always getting harassed on twt by his cult
Yeah. Defending abusers gets you hate. Who knew.
@@gilly_axolotl From the person who has made multiple comments on the top posts, that is really rich. Don't you have better things to do then spam comments to defend a man who will never know you exist? Isn't it dehumanizing to harass people on the internet? Keep "pushing the lies that came out of the whole situation." Johnny is an abuser, it was proven in the UK.
"All the perpetrator asks is that the bystander do nothing. He appeals to the universal desire to see, hear, and speak no evil. The victim, on the contrary, asks the bystander to share the burden of pain. The victim demands action, engagement, and remembering."
father-daughter incest in twentieth-century american literature: the complex trauma of the wound and the voiceless by christine grogan
That's a great quote.
Do you realize the latter part of it actually can be applied to Johnny Depp? Sitting there, asking people to acknowledge at last that he is a victim of defamation?
People did. They engage. And they will remember.
yes! this is why white people for example are so uncomfortable talking about racism. its easier to do nothing and be on the side of abuse than to do tha painful thing and thing about it.
@@veelafayette7653how did you engage? You watched a crafted spectacle and applauded, then threw some stones.
@@beafraid5467 Amber Heard isn't the victim and has been proven to be the abuser.
This is a very poignant quote, and it inspired me to look it up! It seems that it was actually first said by Judith Lewis Herman in the book Trauma and Recovery: The Aftermath of Violence - From Domestic Abuse to Political Terror. The more you know!
This whole Heard vs Depp case showed me how many men don’t actually care about men being sexually abused and harassed, they just need a reason to shame us women. When Heard was found guilty, I saw so many male content creators and CZcamsrs who I used to love who never spoke up about sexual abuse towards men…..clapping for Depp and being so happy to shame Amber. I thought to myself, why is it that none of them were acting that way when the whole MeToo movement started due to Harvey Weinstein? The answer is that they don’t care about the men at all…..they just wanna use male victims as a pawn and leverage to hate and shame women. I was never a Depp fan, and after this trial I hate him however….let’s just say that Depp was truly guilty, the fact that these men only celebrated to harass Amber….that should tell us how bad misogyny and sexism is in this country.
she wasnt found guilty. the trial was to prove she was lying.
@@agstinacueva1673well whatever the case was….why is it that so many men online paid more attention to that, than when the MeToo movement first started and just as many male victims came forward as female victims, and none of them said anything? It’s clear to me that they wanted to use the Heard vs Depp trial, and just male victims in general as leverage against us women. Both Heard and Depp are toxic and shitty people, but the fact that Heard was made to look like the only bad guy…..says a lot about our society.
Actual, Female victims of abuse stood up for him, Rihanna and Britney Spears.
And if Amber was the only bad guy she should have lost way more than whatever allegations she made against Depp.
@@agstinacueva1673which is failed to do since she one one of the charges that accused her of creating a hoax.
Right. There were no people talking about charities or resources for male victims.
i grew up in an abusive family and even though my classmates know this, during the trials they would constantly speak about how the abuse was mutual. when i compared my situation to the case they told me not to worry about it because i was a real victim, unlike amber who was a "golddigger"
the following weeks i was afraid of speaking about my own experience, fearing they would start turning on me.
nowadays im preparing to file a restraining order against my parents and i feel like i can't talk about it with my friends. would i be amber heard 2.0 if they didn't know me? i really don't want to find out
Your friends aren’t real friends. If you feel like they’d demonize you and ignore your suffering if they didn’t already know means that they probably will in the future. Don’t isolate yourself, but try to find some people you feel comfortable talking about your experience honestly with. Speaking from experience, if you feel like your friends can’t be relied on to support you, it’s because they can’t. I ended up alone and humiliated and even more traumatized because I was in a similar situation and my “friends” turned on me when I honest. Do yourself a favor and find better people to surround yourself with.
@@missanthropy6174 i understand your concerns but my friends despite this are good friends. they have been there for me many times and changed my life for the better. they meant good, but we're still young and not everyone has the same level of emotional maturity.
@@zer0ishere like I said, don’t isolate yourself. And I know that people aren’t black and white and just because your friends aren’t good about some things, doesn’t mean they’re bad friends. My intention was to advise you to seek more friends who you can talk to these things about and they’ll be supportive. Like I said, I’ve been where you are and the people in my life left me high and dry when I needed support most and that made my situation so much harder. I wish I had known back then that if I couldn’t tell people what had happened to me, then they wouldn’t support me if they knew. I wish I had the friends I had now. Don’t drop your friends. Just try to find more friends that you can talk to.
To be the violent abuser Amber Heard 2.0 you need to abuse your parents a lied they abuse you.
Doing Amber Heard to someone is doing that. To abuse and to lie you were abused
You all seem to forget that the whole thing was televised. Nobody with a right mind could not see the deception. Both verdicts mean nothing. Or paid poor journalism.
We saw, heard everything, our minds have made the conclusion she was the biggest liar.
The lovers inside JD condo, the threats …… , the assault on her sister, all the maids……
Whatever!
I actively tried to avoid the Heard Depp trial when it was going on and it was extremely hard to avoid. It was every second or third video on my FYP and even my out of touch conservative parents were talking about it. I was roughly the same age as Monica Lewinsky when she was absolutely destroyed by the media. I fell for it then but have learned to be extremely skeptical when absolutely everyone is talking about how awful one particular woman is. I feel like the only thing I can do is not participate in the sideshow and try to shut down the perpetuation of it in my own circle.
Even though at the time I believed in Johnny, I decided to stay quiet about the trial, because I really didn't have much confidence in what I knew about the case.
I was a little older than you during the Lewinsky hellscape. I remember people used the internet for the first time in order to read the Starr Report. I was in graduate school studying US history. Trying to talk about it was impossible and HRC got shat on for every part of it. We live in harsh times.
Alright so during the trial I was working a full time job that didn't require much thinking so I listened to the majority of it. I also didn't follow much about it on tiktok, CZcams etc, I most just found the court proceedings to be fascinating. I'm saying this bc the multitudes of evidence, expert perspectives, and witnesses point to amber being the abuser in the relationship. Johnny also had toxic tendencies but not abusive. But hey, no such thing as a perfect victim right. It is a shame that so many liberals and "leftists" have gone out of their way to continue pushing the lies that came out of the whole situation
@@gilly_axolotlive just clicked on this vid and honestly dont know if i can listen to it, similarly having listen to almost all of Ambers testimony it is out of this world how uneducated people will be about facts like in regards to the UK trail. I am worried about getting worked up, but have been glad to see atleast one or two people like you trying to clarify the details people will not even care about which leads to them just blaming Depp for slamming cabinet doors and thats somehow as bad as her getting physically violent with him
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being a very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
There's been an alarming second round where Heard is being accused of "trying to ruin Jason Momoa's career" but the logic is absolutely baffling. She was seeing a therapist, and in therapy described being allegedly bullied by Momoa. Then Depp's legal team subpeonaed the therapy notes. Then Depp stans crowdfunded to unseal subpeaonaed documents including the therapy notes, and revealed them online. And somehow THAT is turned into "Heard trying to ruin Jason Momoa's career" even though she has ZERO intentionality in any of this. It's absolutely illogical to suggest that she was motivated by some desire to harm another person.
Yes, that's just silly. There are a lot of nonsence channels on the internet who fabricate stuff out of nothing, and most of it is ridiculous. But it's still out there and people might believe it. It's a problem for sure.
Wait, so the therapy notes said the things about Momoa?? That’s insane for them to claim she is trying to ruin him then because people assume therapy is confidential. She’s allowed to say whatever she wants in therapy.
No, it isn't sane Amber was trying to ruin Jason Momoa's career by lying about him. Amber is no victim.
@@LaraCroftEyes1 Oh look. You proved their point.
@@LaraCroftEyes1What is the public doing with her confidential therapy notes?
few years later and it will be "omg can't believe how we treated amber heard back then" literally when do we stop
no, it will never be.
The only regret I have as far as AH is concerned is that while in the grips of Me Too the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction. It’s why she felt comfortable making bald faced lies that fell apart with the slightest bit of scrutiny; because you couldn’t NOT believe a woman when she said she was a victim-and she knew that and took advantage of it.
Amber Heard is a liar and an abuser. Hopefully in a few years we will take male victims seriously
@NatRants it will though because it's happened with every woman this happens too. Britney being the perfect example. the "leave Britney alone" was mocked because people couldn't fathom the idea of someone being upset at their idol being abused by the media. it'll happen with Amber, this video is a clear indicator of that
@@xxmilk-teethxx Britney Spears is not an abuser. Its wild to even compare these two women. Britney was abused by celebrity since she was a literal child.
When did Britney age shame, fat shame, or ridicule her husband? (To be fair, JD did the same to amber right back). When did Britney hit her husband and then complain that he wouldn’t be a man and take it? When did Britney enable and mock her husband’s addiction? When did Britney withhold medication from her husband? When did Britney sever her husband’s finger? When did Britney edit photos to make it look like her face was bruised when it wasnt? When did Britney assault her husband and then mock him saying that no one will ever believe him?
Comparing these two women is insane.
My father abused me for years. I once called the police on him and they threatened to take me into custody because he was the one with scratch marks on his face. From me defending myself (I had long nails, I didn't even mean to scratch him, I often leave scratch marks all over my own body, it's just the nature of having long nails...). I had no marks because he used to be in the military, and spent 15 years in the uniform so obv he knew how to hit without leaving any marks. In the end I drove to the precinct and filed a complaint against him and the detectives did believe me, the case was picked up by a prosecutor (in my country it means it was a huge deal bordering on a criminal case, as I believe is the same in the US) but they dropped it due to lack of sufficient evidence. He abused me psychologically, emotionally and financially, rarely physically, and those cases are always difficult to prove. Me nearly dying when he refused to let me go into life-saving surgery when I was 17 wasn't enough to nail him. The legal system is ill-equipped to help abuse victims. It wasn't even in the US, but in the EU, so I was in a much better position but still no dice. I was 18 then.
I totally agree that the "Trial by Tiktok" didn't help Heard at all. So disgusting that people were able to profit and saw two people having a trial about DA and went "I can make some money"
ShitTok is full of rad-fems. The fuck you on about?
I really didn’t have this perspective before. I wasn’t a Johnny Stan by any means but I thought they both just kinda sucked. Thanks for posting this. Really gave me things to think about
same
Absolutely, i didn't really follow the thing closely and what i took from it was they both fought and were jerks to each other. When in reality she was just trying to defend herself from within that oppressing situation she was in, that he put her in every day. And also the (very important) technicalities were knowingly left out by the media like the fact that the abuse had been recognised by a judge before and this was basically just about whether she'd ruined his reputation or not, because of course leading the public to think that it was broader than this simply made them more money
@@RoxaneJ14yeah thats not what happened tho. Ask her therapist, her friends, those who worked for her. They all said she was the violent one, her therapist even said she hit him in front of her. Please do read more into it instead of listening to one side of the coin. Kat is a known anti depp misandrist who blocks anyone who proves what she has said to be wrong. She is a liar.
@@thelittleatari9664 Honestly, I think it was mostly him. She was retaliating against him.
@@thelittleatari9664 you didn't watch the video
The fact that his lawyers admitted to spraying Johnny’s cologne in the court toilets in the morning are what make me deeply question Johnny not being the abuser. Like if they don’t think Amber has trauma why try to trigger it?
That was a false rumor 🙄
Having been harassed a bunch at school, I recognized so much of the dynamic between Heard and Depp from situations I had at school. People just don't understand what it's like when you try to push back against someone who's been harassing you, how easily and melodramatically they will start playing the victim. I remember hearing the recording where she's calling him a baby and just thinking... I've had this conversation like half a dozen times, Depp is just your typical bully, completely flipping out because someone stood up to them just once after a year of putting up with their bs. Then he basically makes out like Heard is playing out the plot of Gone Girl and I was like... only in America would people actually think that this is a realistic accusation, especially after the bit where the phone calls to the cops didn't match Depp's story at one point.
Amber isn't a victim; she is the abuser. Amber has a history of domestic violence toward her former partners, and she was arrested in 2009 for physically abusing her then-wife in front of witnesses at Seattle Airport. Amber admitted on audio to physically abusing Johnny.
@@LaraCroftEyes1 Bot?
Depp was never a bully. Even his exes came out and defended him. Meanwhile, Heard has history with abuse and Depp isn't her only victim.
No, not a bot, Amber is a bully and she bullied her little sister, and Amber bullied and abused her former girlfriends and abused them then she moves on to bullying Johnny and abusing him.
@@LaraCroftEyes1 @fullmetalgamer6062 Have either of you watched the video?
The "why should we care?" "They are rich celebs" crowd infuriates me because the individuals may be rich and famous but they're not talking about isolated experiences that the general public will never have. They are not talking about magical unicorns and ponies that you cannot relate to. The subject matter is very much one that concerns everyone.
If you think what happened to Amber Heard on a mass scale has not negatively impacted each and every victim of abuse there is, I'm sorry but you're delusional.
Amber Heard wasn't anywhere near as rich as Johnny Depp was. People are under the mistaken she was some mega-rich millionaire. Her first million-dollar paycheck was for playing Mera in Aquaman. Up until then, she was starring in much smaller movies and being far less than that as her financial records showed.
Yeah this bothers me too, like why should we care? We should care bc it’s THIS BAD for even the most rich and most famous, how absolutely horrific is it for regular folks everyday without their platform and resources. If the public can turn on celebrities to this degree, they would destroy the average person with zero hesitation. Thats why we care about these cases, bc behind every rich prominent person dealing with this are MILLIONS of people no one cares about dealing with it too. And if the public opinion could actually turn to support victims, not veer into obsessive misogyny, maybe just maybe more victims will be able to more freely come forward in a world that accepts them and believes them. It’s devastating how far we have to go to ever get to that point in our society. A society that gleefully tears women to shreds to defend men who admit to violence bc of their artistry or wte they bring to the table trumps their actions and behavior.
@mikk3150 after paying for taxes and paying people(agents, stylists and others) she had maybe $50k a year.
She is the only reason it happened, SHE LIED and WAS THE ABUSER...none of this ever had to come up,she was pushed in 2016 by her team and her lawyers to lie to get more money and it backfired on her...instead of apologizing she doubled down, she toke control of a plane that she did not how to land and kept going up and up for years until it blow up on her face...it was not a He said She said were people sided with the more famous one,the world doesn't work like that,there were more than 15 hours of audios,text messeges,pictures and more than 40 witnesses that proved all of his claims and demolished hers...if she had apologized in 2016 none of this would have ever happend and people would have understood...people close to her,fought for her and stood by her that were there during the relationship cut ties with her when the EVIDENCE was revealed and to this day are whishing that she seeks the help that she needs (amanda de cadenet)...
@yassinkefi5506 none of what you're saying true
As a survivor of domestic abuse, this episode made me feel so deeply seen. Everything you described in the podcast, from the way women who choose to come forward as universally condemned as “wanting to gain something,” to the demonization of women for how they respond to abuse, to the way people use situations like this as a piece of gossip to be disseminated socially, everything you and Kat was so accurate to the experience of SO many survivors.
I was assaulted by a very prominently loved person on my college campus. I lost almost everything when I came out about him. I was repeatedly told that I was making it up to gain sympathy, I was told that it was my fault that I endured it for so long, and it became a gossip phenomenon on campus. I meet people to this day who heard about it second or third hand as a juicy piece of entertainment.
We really need to reevaluate our tendency as a society to profit off of women’s pain because it’s entertaining to us. The sick, sadistic voyeurism we get from dogpiling women who come forward does nothing but perpetuate cycles of abuse.
amber heard did not fight back...there are more than 12 hours of audios of her admitting to be the violent one in the relationship, admitting that she gets violent when she gets mad and she just loses it, she litterally told him "i can't promise you that i will not get physical again,when i get mad i just lose it", she admitted to punching,slapping,spitting and throwing objects at him and called him a pussy and a coward for "always running away and hiding in bathrooms" when she would get violent...she cut off his finger and made up a fake SA story that was proved to be fake by a 5 hour recording that she recorded that night...that man never spoke publicly for years while she dragged him through the mud and only went on curt to confront her with the actual evidence and all of her lies crumbled...what it has been done to that man is shamefull and people like kat tenbarge (worked with amber pr team after the verdict) are continuing said psycological abuse...just look at the evidence.
Same here, my ex told people that I used him to get a council flat and people believed him! A council flat! Literally anybody can get one, people use anything to hate on victims regardless of logic
Amber Heard is the abuser, and was proven to be several times. Disgusting how people defend her just because she is a woman.
And we got another reddit rad-fem here! ☝️
@yassinkefi5506 You see, when it comes to rad-fem ideology, all women are perfect victims even when they're abusive predators and men who have been abused by a woman must have brought it on himself.
These people are so sick in the head!
Your video is maybe the first time I've searched "Amber Heard" on CZcams and gotten something non-hateful in the top five results. So thank you for that.
You're brave for posting this because you couldn't say something that was even slightly in support of her when this was at its height. People were foaming at the mouths to hate her it was just...scary. And it's so sad because the public's reaction to this situation is going to prevent so many other victims from coming forward.
Brave? Lmao. Spreading lies that have been debunked over and over again is nothing brave. Nor is it brave to invite a misandrist who has been caught lying over and over again, and even doxxing people.
Ignorant fool 😂😂
NO IT WON'T, but what you said, it's like Elaine on a talk show, .. but I really think her lawyers FAILED MISERABLY, Elaine going on talk shows, blaming everything and everyone for their failure, the justice system, the court, the judge and jurors, SURE MADE IT DIFFICULT FOR AH, UNPROFESSIONAL
What is making it harder for victims to come forward is the constant claim that the outcome of the trial makes it harder for victims to come forward. It's like forming an alternate reality, if y'all keep repeating it often enough it might just come true, like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
On the other hand I've seen lots of comments from these "foaming at the mouths" people expressing the hope male victims will have it easier to be believed in the future, while actual female victims will still also be believed.
Go figure.
The DV locations I've heard from.say they are innundated since covid. None said that demand slowed after the trial.
The book that has had the greatest impact on my understanding of abuse was "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men." The author just really clearly lays out who abusers are, why they abuse, what their tactics are, how to recognize abuse, and how to support victims.
the author Lundy Bancroft has also publicly spoken about JD and how clear his guilt is if you know how to objectively look at the signs and see through his smoke screens
I've heard a lot of people praise that book, but I view it with a bit of suspicion because the author has also peddled transphobic rhetoric and engaged in misgendering.
The book's title is like it is, but I do hope you realize that female abusers exist.
I actually hate how this conversation got turned to a "he-she" thing instead of looking at how abuse is a tactic, a pattern, something people do, and not something that strictly follows from differences in age, gender or wealth, where you could always infer that the rich guy abuses the poor, the big one the small, or the male person the female one.
@@veelafayette7653 Female abusers absolutely exist- its just that Amber Heard is not one. What you are missing/obfuscating is that abuse is not simply someone doing something mean to someone, or even an act of violence (self-defence, for example, is not abuse). To abuse someone requires having power over them, and while that doesn't necessarily mean men always abuse women, or older people always abuse younger, or the rich always abuse the poor, if there are two people, and one is an extremely wealthy, powerful, famous older straight white man (like Depp), and the other is a less wealthy/famous/powerful young queer woman (like Heard), it is EXTREMELY unlikely that the latter is the real abuser. "Victims" don't punch down, literally and metaphorically. Now, there is a whole hell of a lot of other evidence of Depp's abuse on top of that, actual witnesses and physical evidence (much of it excluded from the VA trial, but can be found in the UK trial records or unsealed Virginia court documents), but acting like abuse has nothing to do with power is a way to ignore, and thereby maintain the advantages of those currently IN power, while portraying them as the victims if those they abuse ever resist. It basically is the basis of the far Right's narrative- that straight white men (who still hold most of the wealth and the political offices in our society, and this is just a statistical fact) are the real victims of oppression by "minorities", women, and the Left.
Or to put this really simply: They were living on Depp's properties, surrounded by his paid staff and security who answered to him. Exactly how was Amber Heard supposed to have abused him for years, in that situation?
the trial was especially hard for me because I was (actively) in a very similar relationship. my ex (who would eventually strangle me till I changed colour/break a bone in my hand and finally end up in court) had actually said some of the exact same, word for word abusive phrases to me that JD had said to Amber and it was infuriating and so disheartening to see the public response and complete lack of awareness of ipv/abuse dynamics. it hurt deeply to know if they heard my story they would say all the same things because my ex (diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder during his ongoing 4 year trial) was also an extremely charming man who only let his partners and late mother see the violent side of him, and there were times my body's autonomic response to danger wasn't flight/fawn/freeze but fight. sure it was a 10:1 ratio but I knew few people would understand that and think the fact I didn't simply fall to the floor bleeding everytime was something that spoke to my character more than his. it also helped me in some ways because it triggered me so badly I had to come to the defense of myself and become determined to not be put in the same category as my abuser simply because he had normalized violence for me and I wanted to survive knowing him.
sorry that was long but this pod was important to me on a personal level, I remember Kat being one of the few voices of reason from the start that helped keep me sane that whole time. my one note is y'all didn't mention the creator of the term DARVO said JD was a great example who did a lot of it! other than that A++
I'm sorry for what you went through, and I hope you managed to distance yourself from him by now.
Amber Heard is the abuser, and was proven to be several times. Disgusting how people defend her just because she is a woman.
Sorry you went through this and that our culture made it worse. Glad things are better for you now
JD wasn't abusive. Amber was. Stop defending Amber because she is a woman and stop blaming JD because he is a man.
It's hard to empathize with you when you're defending a LITERAL ABUSER.
@@bilibili68 thank you, unfortunately I'm still in court proceedings because he breached his probation coming to my workplace so not as distanced as I want yet, but getting closer hopefully to not having to see his face again
I think it really showed me how biased we are towards women when I saw videos like "Johnny Depp being SAVAGE and COOL on the stand!" before Amber even testified, before anyone has heard her perspective (because I doubt they've read the transcripts from the UK case). When he was arrogant and cocky - he was being cool, savage, authentic, real. When she simply advocated for herself - like when it was suggested that Depp got her the Aquaman role and she answered "I got myself this role by auditioning" - she was called arrogant and disrespectful. The same with the make up pallete thing and donations - all her words were taken ridiculously literally, with no room for nuance and good faith. She was already assumed to be a liar, all they needed was "proof".
She said her divorce settlement was donated. Even if she meant she pledged it, during the trial when Vasquez was asking if she (Heard) had actually given the money to those charities, that's when Heard said she had not- "because Johnny sued me." Then it was shown Heard had the divorce settlement for 15 months before she wrote the OPed. Of course there wasn't room for "good faith" because she had misled so many people on whether or not she still had the money. If I said to you, "I donated my couch to the salvation army" what you would think? That I no longer have possession of my couch- that I gave it away. Correct? If Heard wanted to convey that she would be donating the money, it would have been as simple as saying, "I'm donating my divorce settlement to the following charities." That's it. That would have been enough. Instead, she said donated- past tense.
As to the Aquaman role, we all know it wasn't Depp that auditioned. We do know, however, that Depp has some pretty big pull with Warner Bros. If Heard wasn't really being considered, it's entirely possible Depp could have called them up (as he testified to) and had a conversation with them about hiring her.
@@danigrl917 she was literally AHEAD of her donation schedule before Depp started suing her. She was supposed to donate the money over the period of 10 years (just like it always is with these large donations). The ACLU confirmed that and said that Heard was transparent about any financial difficulties that came up as a result of Depp's lawsuits. This whole thing was ridiculously overblown and has nothing to do with whether she was abused or not.
@@Karolina-qr5pz If she was ahead in her donation schedule, why did CHLA send her a letter asking if she was going to fulfill her pledge to them? Sure, the ACLU let things slide because they 1) helped her to write the OPed and 2) they made her an ambassador for their organization.
However, if she was ahead of her donation schedule, why didn't she just say that during the trial? Why didn't she present evidence that showed she had made payments to BOTH organizations, and explain that the payments were to be made over 10 years? Why did she insist on claiming it was donated (meaning- she didn't have the money anymore) in the press, and argue what those words mean to hear (donate vs. pledge)?
It is correct that whether or not she donated the money has zero to do with her being abused. It does, however, factor into whether or not her testimony can be believed about anything. The UK judge based a good part of his ruling on the the fact Heard donated her settlement ("She's not in it for the money if she donated it all."). Yet, that was proven to be false. She put forth evidence that was either tampered with or used for more than one alleged abusive incident. Why is it that her evidence holds more weight than Depp's?
She had no issues taking pictures of alleged damage, but none of herself or her injuries during the most severe claims (Australia). It wasn't because she was scared Depp would find them because she also sent embarrassing pictures of him passed out to her friends. She lied about one of the images of Depp passed out with ice cream and told Dr. Spiegel it was vomit.
In my opinion, she attempted at every turn to not only manipulate everyone, but also manipulate the evidence to support her claims. If she did that, how can anyone believe her claims? Because sometimes women aren't believed? What happened to Depp when this story first came out? Don't pretend his life wasn't effected because of her claims, and don't pretend her life wasn't, either.
@@danigrl917first of all, people in that room were all aware that the donation would be done over a long period of time. There was no point to be exceedingly specific in the vocabulary. And no her evidence wasn’t proven to be false anywhere except in the head of online audiences that believe body language experts on tiktok. Depp’s life was not at all affected, and Amber was severely criticized during her first oped, too. Also no, because someone lied about something doesn’t mean they lie about everything. It means they’re a flawed human being. Although in this case no, she didn’t lie about the money and your personal opinion about her being manipulative doesn’t ultimately matter in the court of law. And women aren’t believed systemically and constantly, not just ’sometimes’.
@@beafraid5467 Of course lying about one thing doesn't necessarily mean they lie about everything. However, in a court of law, a jury can look at all of her (or whomever) testimony and determine that, if she lied about one thing, that she could be lying about other things.
Maybe the point in being specific with her language was to show how she twists words. No, I would never assume that someone would make a donation over time. Now, if they told me they were donating $X over a certain amount of time, I obviously wouldn't think they donated it all at once. In the courtroom, evidence was presented to show that Heard had intended to make the donations over time- yet did not stick to that schedule and was even contacted regarding those donations to see if she was going to fulfill them.
Did you seriously say that Depp's life wasn't affected? Wow. Go crawl back under the rock you've been living under.
i made a few posts on various social media accounts during the trial begging people to stop shaming amber. in my posts i didn't even take a position on whether or not amber was a victim, though clearly she was; all i did was ask people to let the court case proceed without turning it into an uninformed social media spectacle. i received so many death threats that i had to delete my posts and then, eventually, my entire social media account. it was scary how badly people wanted an excuse to hate women, or anyone they perceived as such who spoke up against the insane hate campaign (i'm a genderqueer trans person, but i was only ever addressed as a cis woman on those posts).
amber heard did not fight back...there are more than 12 hours of audios of her admitting to be the violent one in the relationship, admitting that she gets violent when she gets mad and she just loses it, she litterally told him "i can't promise you that i will not get physical again,when i get mad i just lose it", she admitted to punching,slapping,spitting and throwing objects at him and called him a pussy and a coward for "always running away and hiding in bathrooms" when she would get violent...she cut off his finger and made up a fake SA story that was proved to be fake by a 5 hour recording that she recorded that night...that man never spoke publicly for years while she dragged him through the mud and only went on curt to confront her with the actual evidence and all of her lies crumbled...what it has been done to that man is shamefull and people like kat tenbarge (worked with amber pr team after the verdict) are continuing said psycological abuse...just look at the evidence.
@@yassinkefi5506 Did you even watch the video you're commenting on
@@yassinkefi5506bot
As a victim, I could tell who was the liar before the trial, and it was confirmed by evidence during the trial. I find it fascinating how many victims also saw what I saw.
What was more fascinating were the victims claiming the other party was the real victim.
@@yassinkefi5506 I don't know if anybody noticed. Her supporters either try to talk like Johnny's supporters or they accuse Johnny's supporters of doing to them whatever Amber accused them of (supposedly) doing to her.
I have a few regrets in my life. Buzz feed feminism, trying heroin and thinking I wouldn’t get addicted and how I behaved during this trial. I’m honestly ashamed. I’m a survivor of dv myself and I completely fell for the misogyny and bullshit.
I guess all I can do now is say I’m sorry, understand and work through my internalised misogyny and learn from it.
Thank you for being a voice of reason❤️ everywhere you go it’s just depp fanatics and disgusting misogyny
@@QuinnOsgood-rj7wzyes :( and it feels like it happened again with Megan Thee Stallion and Rho Bashe
Thank you for ignoring the Australian tapes of the turd who is crying and admitting she cut Johnny's finger off and then claimed under oath that he did it. Thank you for ignoring the fact that not once did she mention that she was brutally raped with a bottle that day. There was no evidence of it. Thank you for ignoring the doctors frantically trying to get her to take her seroquel. You know, her anti-psychotic medication. And thank you for ignoring the fact that she did the same crap to Elon Musk.
Stop perpetuating Misandry and lying about the facts
@@madelinetanner6159 You mean the recordings? You know what they say.. It's hard to win an argument with an intelligent person..... but it's impossible to win an argument with an idiot.
@@madelinetanner6159why do you hate victims of domestic violence? Why are you trying to silence the truth? #justiceforamberheard
watching how people happily dogpiled on Amber was so triggering bc it was exactly how people (adults) treated me when I was being abused by my mother
She's the abuser!
I'm so sorry honey. This trial was just an enlarged version of what goes on in many homes and personal lives
@@nm9688 🤡
@@theendisthebeginningistheend keep feeding yourself lies to cope.
@@lokie3292 You're the ones feeding yourselves lies.
Amber Turd is an abuser & you know it!
This event felt very much like "2016 Election...2!" with everyone dog-piling on an imperfect woman about some random ass nonsense and instead supporting someone who was CLEARLY wrong.
We just went through the Britney Spears thing and the pattern of women with mood/emotion disorders being blatantly groomed/abused and them being blamed for having the most realistic reaction.
(reminder Johnny Depp (25) literally dated an underage Wynona Ryder (17))
Did you know: Winona Ryder was the bigger name back then. Stop making her into a hapless teenie. They were an absolute dream couple, and this "But she was just 17 when they started to date11!1" is literally just weird.
she was a hapless teen though? just because you're famous doesn't override the fact that you are 17 and henceforth, your brain is still not fully developed. in fact i'd argue that all that fame and public scrutiny at a young age would make it harder for you to understand the power imbalance. also, if your idea of a dream couple is a teenager and a man 8 years older, please do some introspection; and stay away from teenagers. @@veelafayette7653
@@veelafayette7653the point isn’t about how famous they were, it’s about the fact that a grown man was dating an underage teen, which is gross no matter who it is.
@@veelafayette7653 Did you deadass just defend p-dophilia? Funny how it's always conservatives doing that.
but she was just 17 💀 thats a child who can't vote and he had a whole ass developed frontal lobe
Not even 5 minutes into this video and I want to say thank you. The backlash/criticism that Amber Heard got was uncalled for.
She deserved to be sued though. She falsified abuse claims.
100%
@@gilly_axolotlhow?
@@sparksfly6149 watch the trial and you'll see
i also think it's interesting how johnny depp support - and this is something u could observe regardless of what actually happened, even if he was/is really a victim - wasn't about supporting a victim, really. like was the language used ever about that? did they emphasize his vulnerability, how it must feel? or how he was such a badass and was better than ever or whatever? there is some of that in supporting female victims, sometimes, i've noticed, but i think it's interesting how even as it was about "men can be victims, too" the whole way you treat victims has to change when it's a man, apparently, because... it would be emasculating to treat a man like a victim?
I don't know where you got this from. Most commentaries I saw supporting Depp first and foremost expressed their hope he could heal now and go forward and have good things in life again, this sort of thing. Maybe that's the "better then ever" part of it. But these are just good wishes, maybe more distanced and more "you do you" than you would towards a woman.
Here is a thought: Maybe emphasizing vulnerability of women victims and concentrating on their feelings is a way to keep them in victimhood, and wishing someone they may heal and get some rest and then have a good time is actually a better way to get to peace and into agency again?
@@veelafayette7653 i don't know what kind of comments you saw. i only ever got the kind of thoughtless shite that gets on, like, the tiktok FYP when you're logged out, or that gets a billion views on Facebook. i'm sure that kind of thing you describe is very common, the trial was so big there were probably genres of commentary. also, my social media is mostly non-english, so this will likely contribute to differences between what i saw on multiple levels
if that's the take-away you have, that's fine. i wasn't necessarily saying one type is better than the other. there is undoubtedly problems with how the media treats "victims," (by which i don't mean victims as a whole but what the media considers victims)
@@baintreachas Most comments I saw were on CZcams, and not in the more misogynistic corners of it. So maybe I ignore a chunk of them, I try to keep away from the thoughtless shite.
@@veelafayette7653 as we all should
When you were discussing how other women are demonised and such it reminded me of the storm around Kim Kardashian and Kanye through their break up… I never followed the Kardashians, and I was never a Kanye fan, but even if you don’t like someone, the fact people will say a woman deserves that treatment for being married to someone who has a history of bizarre behavior… it was so crazy to see.
This was so infuriating when it was all going down. I had a friend who was squarely on Depp’s side because that’s what the court ruled. I insisted that it was impossible for the jury to be impartial because from day one it was a media circus. It was impossible to go online and not see pro-Depp content. I brought up the fact that this case had already been ruled in Heard’s favor in England when literally nobody knew the case was going on. I brought up the fact that Depp specifically brought the case to Virginia which has some of the laxest laws around Court case broadcasting. She said that because the case had been ruled in Depp’s favor and public opinion was on his side that that was that.
I then asked if she thought OJ Simpson was innocent because that’s what the case ruled. Suddenly, she got quiet.
Amber was not a party to the U.K. trial - she was a witness - which means she was not subject to a process of discovery, which enabled her lies to be debunked. If you have watched all of the U.S. trial and still favour Heard, that truly truly blows my mind
Not to mention the US jury literally fell ASLEEP yet ppl want to pretend like their ruling MUST be the most critical answer unbiased decision while completely ignoring that a judge in the UK already certified Depp a wife beater.
@@sarahlang2119 the jury in the U.S. fell asleep and went home every night and watched TikTok. The judge in the UK including the appeals court found her evidence credible. Depp’s own texts emails and audio clips show an abusive man, how you could read/listen to them and still favor Depp TRULY blows my mind
@sarahlang2119 If not for Amber's evidence, testomony, and the testomony of her friends, the Sun would have lost the case. Libel laws are stricter in the UK than in the US. All the digital evidence was looked through by independent experts. The Judge ruled that 12 out of 14 abusive incidents were true.
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
This video really helped me opening my eyes. I've never seen this side of the entire Johnny Depp vs. Amber Heard thing because all I ever saw was videos on CZcams or TikTok against Amber Heard and all the people around me were dehumanizing Amber. Therefore I used to think: "Oh she must be crazy" as well. But this podcast really showed the other ugly side many people like me didn't get to see... so thank you ❤
Any time you see a pile on of a woman online it’s a safe bet to defend her either way.. most of the people saying she was crazy were basing that on what you knew.. none of them cared to or will willing to hear anyone out that tried to defend her.
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being a very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
@@SSbrdgechange it a bit
Do you know any other songs? The one you keep singing really sucks.
Maybe you should watch the actual trial. There’s a very good reason the jury found that Amber had defamed JD with malice.
The part about how society demonizes victims of abuse that fight back is so important. I do not have a history of domestic abuse myself, but I have a history of bullying at elementary school, and I remember how no one took me seriously when I said that I was just fighting back the kids that hit me & tried to hurt me. I would be dragged to the principal’s office and get the same punishment with the kid that’d beat me up because I had fought back and was strong enough to overpower him. Kids were even turning it into a show. I was getting mad when kids hit me so I hit them back; I was getting mad when they called me names so I screamed at them. And when I didn't and chose to lock myself in a bathroom stall to cry, kids would come banging on the door, and even teachers would come and try to get me out (like ffs leave me cry in fucking peace). I know domestic abuse is a whole different thing, and perhaps more serious, but I cannot help but see, in retrospect, some parallels between Amber's experience and mine. While I wasn't dragged by the media or had my career ruined, I can see how we were both shamed, ridiculed, disbelieved and punished. And I know it all fucked me up big time, so I cannot imagine how horrible it must be for Amber.
Anyway. That was all. Thank you, Matt and Kat (that rhymes lol), for being voices of reason ❣
Is this really what colleges and universities are teaching kids nowadays? To be blindly baised against men? Jesus. No wonder your generation is so ret@ded! 🙄
"To escape the abuse, I locked myself in the bathroom and started to cry."
You mean like how Johnny did when a drunk and abusive Amber refused to keep her hands off him?
Aw, you're such a perfect-victim! You poor, poor baby, you. Awww. You need a tissue? You want a huggy-wuggy? 😭
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 I'm not a perfect victim. there are no perfect victims.
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 are we talking about the same Johnny Depp that dated 17 year old Winona Ryder when he was a grown adult?
Thank you for this. I couldn't believe at the time how Amber was getting crucified, how the only people speaking up for her behaviors being typical of abuse survivors were getting dragged along with her. All I ever saw was a woman who reminded me a lot of myself when I left an abusive relationship, but the whole internet was patting itself on the back for destroying her.
amber heard did not fight back...there are more than 12 hours of audios of her admitting to be the violent one in the relationship, admitting that she gets violent when she gets mad and she just loses it, she litterally told him "i can't promise you that i will not get physical again,when i get mad i just lose it", she admitted to punching,slapping,spitting and throwing objects at him and called him a pussy and a coward for "always running away and hiding in bathrooms" when she would get violent...she cut off his finger and made up a fake SA story that was proved to be fake by a 5 hour recording that she recorded that night...that man never spoke publicly for years while she dragged him through the mud and only went on curt to confront her with the actual evidence and all of her lies crumbled...what it has been done to that man is shamefull and people like kat tenbarge (worked with amber pr team after the verdict) are continuing said psycological abuse...just look at the evidence.
@@yassinkefi5506okay and why could this grown adult not leave at the first time a person like half his age with clear mental health issues and no real standing in the industry or even in the community got angry and hit him? And he was being absolutely forced to just stand there and provoke or make fun of her when she was having an episode, instead of making any kind of effort to calm her down or defuse the situation? Even though he's like twice her age and you would think he might have learned some emotional maturity and interpersonal skills during that time. Or are her feelings just hysteria and therefore it's okay to mock and invalidate them because she's just a crazy woman and therefore it doesn't matter, she deserves it and no one should ever care that she is hurting, even if that person is literally married to her? Like. Yeah she behaved like a crazy person, and he behaved like a heartless asshole, why is mistreating someone only okay when you can remain calm while doing it?
@@butasimpleidiotwizard what do you mean provoke and make fun of her? all of the the evidence and witnesses showed that she would explode from nothing,non verbal Q's and that when this would happen he would always try to deescalate the situation...There is an hour audio where you can see an example of their fight where she is making several request to him and Johnny very calmly tells her that she has "control issues"that are often very taxing and that when things don't go exactly how she wants it thene there are problems...because of that amber created a whole hour problem where she called him aggressive,abusive and told him that he called her a control freak (none of that stuff ever happened in that audio),when she would get violent he would leaveto other houses in bathrooms,hide in bathrooms and in general retreat form the fight...asking the question why didn't he leave the first time it happened is simply victim blaming,the same question if asked to a woman would be outrageous.....try to rewrite your whole arguments and changed the genders,it absolutely makes no sense but because the person that is violent and instable is a woman all of a sudden it means that the man did something to hurt her...what.aboit Tasya Van Rea ?(amber's ex wife)...amber assaulted her in an airport and was arrested for it...and at the end of the day,to lie about being abused and raped just to destroy the life of your ex because he wanted a divorce,is absolutely diabolical and for you to even try to defend her for that is outrageous
@@yassinkefi5506 I would say exactly the same thing if a woman was with a man half her age who was treating her like this and she had nothing to lose by leaving him because she was a well respected professional with a lot of connections and sway within the industry they both work and in the public eye compared to her partner who was a nobody mentally ill dude in his early 20s, gender isn't everything and people making this about gender are ignoring all the other much more significant factors in this power imbalance, that is what is outrageous. He was not ever powerless in this situation and I am tired of people acting like he was, I have an actual friend who was similarly dating someone they should not have been as she was much older than him, and she stayed way past the point it was defensible, but blamed it on him being a minor and threatening her with telling the police if she broke up with him. I still 100% think she was wrong, because if she had left him when I told her to right after she found out he had been lying about being 18, the police would not have cared. There was more than enough evidence that he had lied and had a track record of trying to hook up with adults, kind of like how Amber Heard already had a track record of lying and being physically violent with her partner. He may have perfectly sympathetic reasons for not being able to leave her (like my friend, hence why she is still my friend) but that doesn't change that he was the one with the most power to leave this situation and he didn't, it doesn't change that Amber was much more vulnerable than him at the beginning, that he held all the cards, that she needed him not the other way around. He didn't sue her for justice, he sued her for revenge and to ruin her life, he admitted this, I don't care who is doing that I don't think that is a particularly okay thing to do. She didn't even mention his name in the article in which she allegedly defames him, he was the one who started the first lawsuit claiming it was defamation, lost (because it wasn't, since he was never actually mentioned) and then decided to sue her again in a specific state whose laws allowed him to get the media involved and manipulate public opinion to his side, it was never about winning it was just about looking better than her, he succeeded, it was a really shitty and immature thing to do regardless of what she did and I don't believe anyone deserves to be treated like that, full stop. He was the one who decided to drag everything into the open with the specific intention of humiliating her, do not forget that.
@@butasimpleidiotwizard Why does his wanting revenge even matter? He's entitled to it when she was the abuser in the first place.
I posted in support of Heard openly on Twitter where I have a following of about 100k and the onslaught I received across MULTIPLE platforms was like nothing I've ever experienced before. I was sent screengrabs from Reddit where people were making lengthy posts about me full of lies, faked tweets were created and shared as "screengrabs she's deleted", I lost several friends over this. People lost their minds over this, thank you SO much for this episode. Kat rocks.
i refused to participate in any discourse around the trial back when it was going on because i thought it was sick and kind of dystopian that the personal lives of these two people had turned into entertainment for everyone around the world. whenever i voiced that opinion it was always “johnny depp deserves to be able to tell his story publicly” which sure, if we’re talking about whether victims of abuse (not saying he is or isn’t a victim tho) deserve to share their story. but the trial wasn’t perceived as such. it has become a spectacle, people discussed it and spoke about it as like they would discuss a popular tv show. i knew then that this wasn’t about victims sharing stories, it was about twisting narratives. i’m so glad i didn’t participate in the bs that was the trial honestly
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being a very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
@@SSbrdge The same thing can be said for you as well. If there is misandry, you clearly think there was also misogyny also right? You don't think some of those memes of Amber were misogynistic?
@@krie6336 The way I feel about those Amber Heard memes, is the same I feel about Donald Trump memes. Deserved. When you are PROVEN, to be a scumbag, and been caught lying, you deserve to be made fun off. Amber Heard and her apologists even till this day keep being called out for their lies.
@@SSbrdge me: your reading comprehension is piss poor
you: how dare you say i piss on the poor
@@SSbrdgenothing that this person said indicated their personal stance on the trial. it was a completely neutral comment. all they were saying was that it shouldn’t have been treated as a spectacle. why do you not agree?
My main source of social commentary tends to be youtube, and I just have to shout out Leeja Miller and Princess Weekes who each put out videos in defense of Heard in the thick of the trial and took an insane amount of heat for it. (Princess Weekes got so much hate she ended up deleting her video)
Medusone too, who made hours long videos breaking down the evidence of the allegations, which are in support of Heard
🤡🤡
I felt like I couldn’t critique the way they talked about Amber when this all happened, but it all felt sooooo gross 😢
Amber Heard is the abuser, and was proven to be several times. Disgusting how people defend her just because she is a woman.
I could never understand why everybody took Johnny Depp's side. I remember at the very beginning I wanted to believe that Johnny was a victim. He was my first crush I cried when 21 jump Street ended and I too want to support men who are abused but it was glaringly obvious that this was not the case. Amber was clearly a victim and as we move through the trial, some of the most insane things stuck out at me and so I just want to mention them here because I feel like it's a safe place.
1. The forensic psychologist for the Johnny Depp side had dinner and drinks with Johnny for hours prior to Amber's evaluation. That is a huge ethical violation. I have never had dinner or hung out with the ex, or friends of a client that I was evaluating. I would have to transfer that evaluation to another therapist so is not to be biased. And I don't understand why she needed evaluated anyway because it doesn't matter if you have a mental illness. Anybody with any type of illness is still able to be abused. In fact, people who have borderline personality, although I don't think she did, have higher rates of being in abusive relationships.
2. Johnny admitted to absolutely horrific things on the stand. Her friends admitted to witnessing horrific things from him and yet nobody seemed to care They just were busy thinking Amber was secretly snorting cocaine from tissues while testifying!!
3. That horrible woman who was a lawyer for the Johnny Depp team who is like the most unequivocal mean girl I have ever seen, was recently interviewed and was laughing saying that they had someone spray his cologne in the bathroom in the mornings before trial so as to feed into Amber's anxiety prior to her going into court.
As a human being, how could you want to do that and then gleefully laugh at your bullying of another person?
4. And finally, watching Amber testify about her sexual assaults and other abuse was horrific. It should not have been public. I couldn't imagine having to testify about the worst points of your life, and having the entire world rip you apart and make fun of you. As a society we should be ashamed.
Rant over
With this logic you clearly do NOT support men who are abused especially by women. You rad-fems are freaking SCARY!! Just WOW! 🫣😶
Amber literally acted like a victim the whole time she was being tried. She even pretended to be scared of Johnny because he got too close to her when he was trying to exit the building but when they were behind the scenes, Johnny literally had to lock himself in the bathroom just to keep her from psychically assaulting him. That doesn't seem like someone who's afraid of Depp. You're so fraking brainwashed by victim feminism.
PLEASE get help! 😂
@@nocturnalrecluse1216How do you know she pretended anything?
@@samiam2088 Through asute observation? 🤷♂️
You need to fact check these things before committing to them.
1. This was hashed out very clearly in the trial. The "dinner" was an attempt by Heard's lawyers to provide a "gotcha" when in reality it was a very standard interview by Johnny Depp's attorneys on whether Dr. Curry would be able to provide her professional insight for the trial that happened to be at his house. This happens all the time, and the only reason you think this is exceptional is because her lawyers made a very big deal about it in an attempt to show a conflict of interest, but in reality, this was nothing but ordinary legal procedure colored by the high-profile nature of this case. Here is the full cross-examination of that forensic psychologist for you to hear her clearly shutting down this narrative for yourself at 19:11, including her own response to why she had this meeting with Johnny's legal team at Johnny's house: czcams.com/video/YNpEeIus_tY/video.html
2. And Amber admitted to hitting Johnny multiple times on audio, and she verifiably threw a wine bottle at him that nearly caused him to lose a finger. Yes, there were a lot of terrible things said during the trial, but that doesn't mean Amber's claims had more legitimacy just because her claims were more dramatic or exaggerated. You don't have to like Johnny Depp or agree with the response the internet had to Amber to see that she greatly exaggerated her claims of abuse to the point of absurdity. Go back and look at the evidence Amber showed for the horrific abuse she alleged. In her testimony she describes this horrific beating, and then shows a photo of her face slightly reddened afterwards. It's ridiculous
3. You are spreading unverified misinformation. The source for this "admission" from Camille Vasquez is a single Facebook account with 300 followers that claimed to hear her say this during a panel in which she talked about her career. There is no other source and no one else has verified the claim, it's literally just Twitter and Reddit sharing the same screenshot of a Facebook post from that single account. Again, you need to fact check these things before you believe every single thing you hear online
4. You can believe that her testimony was horrifying while also acknowledging that there's no corroborating evidence for the claims of the severe abuse she alleged. Her own witnesses contradicted her claims several times, or did not support the severity of those claims. Yes, hearing someone describe assault of any kind is horrific, but these people are professional actors. To believe that they can't sell an exaggerated story *so well*, that you believe it's real, is foolish. Johnny is just as guilty of exaggerating his stories about her abuse and acting in an evocative way that benefits his image on the stand. The difference is that he had more physical evidence, such as the many photos of Amber shortly after each instance of alleged abuse that did not in any way show the injuries she claimed to have sustained- injuries that would've been impossible to hide with "just the basic makeup kit" that she claimed
Do your own research about the evidence presented at the trial. If Amber had any substantive evidence about the abuse she alleged, she would've won the trial handily, but she didn't, because she had no hard evidence. Stop believing everything she said just because she was unfairly harassed by the internet, and stop believing every piece of unverified misinformation you hear online just because it aligns with your biases
I didn't care about the case. I didn't follow it, didn't want to know about it in any way. When i tell you the only way to do that would have been to hide myself under a rock i would not be exaggerating. I got videos recommended to me about the trial when i DIDN'T EVEN SEE ANYTHING ABOUT IT AND I DIDN'T CARE. People's obssession was crazy, some people filmed tiktoks showing themselves going to the trial as viewers. Like it was some sort of circus show with their beloved childhood movie actor Johnny Depp.
One thing i DO remember, however, was how two of my friends briefly explained the situation to me, and basically said Johnny was the victim bc he had no contracts at the time of trial except a perfume one. Like he doesn't have already millions of dollars, like he doesn't have a shinning career, like he doesn't still have revenue from Pirates of the Caribbean. They said he was fired from HP, yet they didn't seem to know that had nothing to do with Amber and lots to do with him having problems with addiction. They also seemed to ignore the fact Amber is not nearly as known or famous as Johnny is, and she doesn't have as much money as him, so trully the one losing money was her.
The entire thing just seemed fetishistic and disgusting to me. People were using this as entertainement and making memes and videos and jokes and it was such a pain to be online at this time.
For an illustration of how an abused person can, at times and in response to the abuse, sometimes fight back physically or otherwise, i warmly recommend watching Big little lies.
In the second season it also portrays how outside people react when they hear about it and the awful things victims hear they should have done in the moment (and how they are deemed not credible because they didn't do these things)
Nicole Kidman is phenomenal in it and portrays this realistic victim in contrast to the "perfect victim" people expect and try to prove Heard wasn't. No she wasn't, victims rarely are, but everything that is being described by you guys very much reminds me of Kidman's character, Celeste who is clearly still very much abused although she behaved imperfectly
Tw : SA and domestic violence
I watched the trial. To me, Depp seemed to be doing exactly what you described on some of the tapes that were played, getting loud, trying to shut Ambers jack hammering down. Her defense used some of those recordings to paint him as the aggressor, but whenever I heard Amber on these tapes I strongly felt he was the one fighting back.
But yeah, I guess as an older man, you are not the perfect victim here.
amber heard did not fight back...there are more than 12 hours of audios of her admitting to be the violent one in the relationship, admitting that she gets violent when she gets mad and she just loses it, she litterally told him "i can't promise you that i will not get physical again,when i get mad i just lose it", she admitted to punching,slapping,spitting and throwing objects at him and called him a pussy and a coward for "always running away and hiding in bathrooms" when she would get violent...she cut off his finger and made up a fake SA story that was proved to be fake by a 5 hour recording that she recorded that night...that man never spoke publicly for years while she dragged him through the mud and only went on curt to confront her with the actual evidence and all of her lies crumbled...what it has been done to that man is shamefull and people like kat tenbarge (worked with amber pr team after the verdict) are continuing said psycological abuse...just look at the evidence.
@@yassinkefi5506 I can't even believe how people here acknowledge Kat as credible since she openly admitted that she never saw the trial and knows nothing about this issue, yet she's full of opinions. These people need a reality check. They need to let go of Amber and focus on what's in the mirror to figure out what's really going on.
@@kimkhamis6420no. Ya’ll do. That trial was a Fucking character assassination at best and a blatant misogynistic witch hunt in reality.
When I look in the mirror, I see the truth, smiling back at me. What do you see when you do?
Did amber fight back when Johnny had to lock himself inside the bathroom just to get away from her? Did amber fight back when she literally severed the tip of his finger with an empty liquor bottle? Did amber fight back when she berated and gaslit Depp in some attempt to frame him as an abuser?
People literally don’t understand what abuse even is, they think abuse is physical harm and who perpetuates it instead of who has power in the relationship and uses it to control the other
Thank you so much for speaking on this. I lived near the trial when it was happening, and I tried so hard to stay completely out of that news cycle. It did not work. It seemed like everyone was talking about it and the things being said on TikTok.
About a half a week into the trial things crystallized for me, and I realized why I was having a hard time digesting everything. People were being plain wrong and violently misogynistic. I felt that I could easily be harmed if I were in her position, or if I spoke out for her. I wanted to make a sign supporting her and stand outside the courthouse, but I felt I had nobody to stand with me, and I was worried about the crowd of Depp supporters (many who flew in for the spectacle) attacking me. In the end I did nothing but I wish I did.
I've been waiting to see others set the record straight. Thank you again.
If there was anything that convinced me Amber was the victim it was that fucking trial and the way she was treated during it
Never mind that her stories fell apart and her defence was a disaster....
Rad-fem, much?
@@nocturnalrecluse1216You can’t articulate a single argument
@@MoMo-ke1iq You can't even finish one
@MoMo-ke1iq Amber is an abuser. Not a victim, and you rad-fems are toxic to believe otherwise.
snl doesn't surprise me, they have a history of mocking victims. the menendez brothers were used as comedic material to make fun of, even though they alleged their parents abused them.
what was surprising was how many influencers with backgrounds in law (or who claim to have the knowledge) were being completely biased in JDs favor AND hurled their own abuse at amber heard
Amber Heard is the abuser, and was proven to be several times. Disgusting how people defend her just because she is a woman.
I remember when the Amber Heard trial was happening almost every single person i knew was against her. i was tentative and i tried to look up what was happening and literally every single result was talking about how evil Amber Heard was. I'm pretty sure i just gave up on trying to form an opinion at some point because everything was so weird and demeaning, there was basically no information that seemed credible. the exact same thing happened with the Lizzo drama as well, every thing was flooded with so much negative info and it was really hard to avoid if i spent time online
Then just watch the actual trial. It’s entertaining and you’ll find there’s a reason almost everyone is against her.
I never followed closely this trail, for many reasons but mainly because I've grown disillusioned of Hollywood and celebrities.
With that said, while I didn't agree or bank for any side the sheer hatred I saw slung towards Amber was absolutely horrifying. I've seen misogyny in all its shapes, forms and presentations and what she went through was nothing more than that; misogyny disguised as a moral crusade for "the good guy".
Yeah idk who you believe, taking shots at people is cheap and improper.
With how public the trial was, and how the Internet, I'm afraid there's no way a massive shitshow could have been avoided. Algorithms will stoke controversy because controversy breeds engagement and engagement breeds ad money. And it's not like life-lacking trolls and haters were waiting for permission to start pouring sewage. As soon as the woman-haters noticed there was support for the possibility that AH was any version of that mythical gold-digging false-allegation-making alimony-leeching child-stealing [and so on] evil they assign to the whole gender of women, there was no stopping a riot for the ages.
I feel the verdict was correct and I'm no fan of AH as a person, but how she was treated online was, largely, a goddamn disgrace. Followed the trial through channels that enforced some basic decency.
Great discussion & I really appreciate the perspective you two bring to the Amber-Johnny spectacle. Which in my opinion is what it really was: a spectacle of the destruction of a woman. These kinds of spectacles are as old as patriarchy--from public stoning of women, public trials & executions of 'witches', to public brutalization of Hilary & Britney. The whole point is to remind women to 'stay sweet'--stay nice, stay in your place, shut up, don't make waves, don't challenge men or misogyny. It's a form of public terrorization of women, to remind women of the social & physical violence that can be perpetrated against us if we step out of line.
Of course there are particular dynamics at play, including that Depp spent money & social capital to weaponize his fans & social media. But he only succeeded because we live in a woman-hating culture that ritualizes the brutalization & destruction of women for entertainment & as a warning/threat.
My only criticism of your discussion is that your guest spends most of her time listening & saying "Yeah" "Yeah" "Yeah" because you take up most of the space talking. About an issue that affects women, about the way a woman was treated, & while your guest is an expert/journalist who had the courage to speak out at the time this all went down. I think your interviews would benefit from you doing more listening, more asking questions, & less dominating the discussion.
Imo Amber Heard is the perfect victim. She came from a family that didn't believe her. Her friends dont seem that close. She is bisexual. She seems neurodivergent. She was vulnerable to begin with. Reactive abuse is not abuse its self defense. She still loves him because she barely fought him in court. He dragged her to court both times. She had and has enough power to file a case against him in California where the libel and domestic violence laws are very strict. She never took him to court in California where she would have won! Also she won 3 times in the UK. The woman is an ACLU and UN spokesperson. She is well read and is friends with people like Richard Dawkins. She isn't a phony.
AH is actually ADHD so definitely neurodivergent.
@@larbot3433 She seems more like she is on the spectrum. A lot of actresses are. Females on the spectrum mask/camouflage heavily for social acceptance. Some of them end up being so good at it they can act professionally. A lot of her facial movements and body language, her use of language (it is very verbose) is typical of an autistic spectrum female. There is some kind of glitch in it as if she doesn't know where her own body is in space and time. That is again a very autism symptom. I noticed her doing it when she gets emotional about topics she is discussing. Since I have lived with asd and have family with asd I am kind of aware of its differences and how far people go to appear normal. Females on the spectrum also have record high percentage of violence against them. So do bisexual females (bisexuality and asd are comorbid). It explains why she went through all that she did yet ended up having a pretty decent career.
This channel is brimming with reddit rad-fems. 😂
Character evidence is not real evidence.
@@themorrigan7702 only in a defamation case where u are being accused of being a gold digger..it is
The message that this trial put out there for victims and abusers honestly must have pushed back on years of hard work from so many people. "If shit goes down, they'll just think the woman is a crazy bitch". So victims are encouraged to stfu and men are encouraged to keep steping on us unchecked, so sad and infuriating. Thank you for helping undo some of the damage they have done, you are going to help a lot of people whith this episode ❤️
I think it will hopefully encourage survivors lof any gender to come forward. If there is any unfortunate impact of #metoo, the person to blame is Heard, not Depp
@@sarahlang2119 blame the victim.
@@angellover02171
They didn’t blame the victim. They blamed Amber Heard.
@@BareBandSubscription Johnny Depp is a wife beater
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being a very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
The amount of women I saw acting like Depp was some kind of spotless victim and hating on Amber was really disheartening. Like... okay I guess if God forbid I ever got in a situation where a man abused me, I can't count on support from anyone, not even my fellow women. That's what I'm taking from this.
Amber is the abuser she has a history of domestic violence toward her former partners she was arrested in 2009 for physically abusing her then-wife in front of witnesses at a Seattle airport, Amber admitted on audio to physically abusing Johnny Depp.
@@LaraCroftEyes1lol it was a misunderstanding from a shitty cop, what is your damage
Amber is the abuser and Johnny is her victim.
Speaking of cops, Amber claim Johnny trashed the penthouse after allegedly abusing her when the police shows up Amber's friend Josh answered the door sand let the police in the police bodycam shows the penthouse is clean and nothing damaged and Amber is sitting on the ottoman watching tv with her friends no signs of abused on Amber.
I’m so glad someone is finally talking about this I’ve been so frustrated over this whole situation
To me... or well... really not even "to me", it's known... Originally, Heard got the vast majority of favor when things came out... It was only *after* it was revealed that it became a storm of Johnny support... and lets be honest, that's gonna be expected. Maybe the "male guided" society influenced it, but let's also simply consider the fact that *few* people like being tricked. So the moment when it was revealed that at the least Heard was being deceptive, of course it's gonna be a pretty big turn.
Ultimately, it seems it was a toxic relationship, potentially on both ends, the true extent of which we'll likely never know. I will say though, many people misrepresent the original trial, an event which was The Sun vs Depp... not Heard vs Depp. Nontheless, hopefully both end up in better places in the future.
@@tyleredwards9799 how was Amber deceptive.
@@angellover02171 There was so much. For example she testified in Virginia that one time, he held one of their Yorkies out of the open window of a driving car while howling like an animal. She lamented that no-one in the car, including her, did anything about that and that she feared he might let the dog slip. Finally, so she reported, she gently pulled his arms in to get the dog safely back into the car. She sounded very distressed when talking about this incident and made it clear she found Johnny's behavior irresponsible and reckless.
There is a video of her on the internet though, probably originally from her Instagram, where she is seen holding one of their dogs out of the open window of a driving car. Amber is smiling quite happily in that video and doesn't seem to worry about the safety of the dog like at all.
I'd call that deceptive. And it's such a small thing really. But why lie about small things like this.
@veelafayette7653 her sister also said it happened. I don't know what I would do in that situation.
@@veelafayette7653I just watched the clip. In Amber's case, the dog has it's front paws and head out of the window. It looks like she is supporting the dog so it can get the wind on it's face, but nothing more. The only thing fully outside the car is her phone, which I'd argue is in much greater danger than the dog. If the dog slips, they will fall into the car, not out of it.
From the description she gives, Johnny was holding the dog in a much more precarious position. She didn't describe exactly how the dog was held, or how much of the dog was outside the car, but to my mind "out of the car" could mean the entire dog was outside the car.
I don't think this sounds like a deception. Clearly they both think the dog enjoys having some of their body out in the wind, but Amber remembers an incident where she felt the dog was in danger from Johnny, and felt very distressed over it.
About half way through the trial my wife was actively watching the case and could understand how anyone could watch it and come away with the belief that depp was the victim. So many people used this case as an opportunity to openly be demeaning and sexist towards women.
Thank you for discussing this. I felt like I was crazy when all this was going on because no one else seemed to be questioning the narrative. Especially as a UK person who had just seen Amber cleared of defamation in our country.
I was IRL shamed as a teenager because I accused someone of abuse. It was horrible to hear people saying "well you deserved it because you did XYZ". I was still meeting people years later who had been told bizarre rumours about me and said they'd heard I falsely accused the guy of rape (not true) and that he was going to have to go to jail because of me (he got a mild telling off from the police at best and asked to leave me alone, they didn't do any more as "he seemed nice"). Stuff like this really gets to me.
Amber was not cleared of defamation in the UK. Depp sued the Sun newspaper for an article they wrote. Heard was not party to that case and didn't win/nor was cleared of anything.
8:55 also a very publicized history of dating women significantly younger than him
I had absolutely swallowed the idea of the perfect victim--as a victim of emotional abuse who did not stand up for herself... I definitely frowned upon Amber for not fitting the ideal. I really had to look on my entire situation and realise I'm part of the problem, even in my circumstances, and I cannot imagine how horrible it must be for domestic violence survivors.
I have to deal with the shame that I was a victim that victim blamed...
You definitely weren't the only victim that was against Amber at the time.
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
❤❤❤ thank you for being open!
@@SSbrdgeand what, in your opinion, is the motivation for spreading these "lies"?
@@sparksfly6149 For one, I think Amber Heard was quite successful in setting herself up as a spokeswoman against abuse, so a lot of people now see themselves obliged to "stand by Amber" so as not to hurt the cause itself. With the recent shifts in politics, people may also perceive a shift in treating victims of abuse because of the trial, even though there wasn't one, and try to oppose this by supporting her. People also seem to perceive that being on Amber's side means opposing the radical right, the men's rights activists, Shapiro etc etc., so being on her side might equal being on the right side for them.
Some people just want to be "right" against odds, because this might feel rewarding for them, in a "I know the truth and you don't"-way.
So there you have a couple of possible motivations, I guess. People probably mean well, but in the end it's still lies because it simply doesn't acknowledge the truth of the matter, which is that she lied her behind off.
Johnny Depp is still given roles left and right, while Amber has been completely blacklisted and by media and society. It's honestly horrifying how easily we as people are warped by unconscious biases. Growing up, I freaking LOVED Depp's movies! Corpse Bride, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Edward Scissorhands, Pirates of the Carribean... true classics.
There was such a strong bias for me to believe/like Johnny over Amber that it took an hour of two people dissecting the trial for me to see a more objective reality. Up until this video, I really had no idea how unwarrented the hate for Amber really was or how viscous Johnny was torwards persecuting his victim. I'd considered myself someone who 'believes victims' and 'supports women' but I did not support Amber Heard- I took the path that many took, which is to believe that 'both parties are in the wrong'. Which, ofcourse, is not true. Like Kat said, abusive relationships always involve a perpetrator and a victim: in this case, Amber is the victim. And on top of the abuse she received from Johnny, the entirety of society decided to dogpile her just for sticking up for herself.
😅😂🤦♀️
@@FlakyBrows unless "dissecting the trial" means "introducing new evidence that no one has seen", I don't see how anyone could have changed your mind using the Virginia trial. We are talking about a woman who blatantly lied about being sexually abused. In my book she is perhaps a few ladders above murderers and pedophiles. Not only did she sully an innocent person's name, but she also did so much damage to actual victims of sexual abuse.
I have been in an abusive relationship and during the trail I didn’t feel like I could talk about abuse towards women, even the abuse I myself have endured. It was scary and I’m still scared to talk out loud
Thank you for opening up, I personally think, JD winning , gave men who was /is being abused, the strength to openly admit, then YES, MEN GET ABUSED TO, we live in a world where we tell our son's ,don't cry be a man, those boy's grow up to men men, and then maybe are ashamed to admit when they are the being abused, ...just my opinion
@@annemariemyburgh7252 JD was not a victim though. He was the abuser.
@@brennam954 , I guess you haven't watched the whole trail, ...you can even search google, ... Amber Heard violence, ... oh you you just probably don't like him ,because he is a man , and the only reason he lost the UK trail was because the judge was the father of head editor of People magazine, ... ag shame man, if you listened to all the voice clips of AH, beginning JD not to leave her, calling him a coward, taunting him, saying he is weak ,then just maybe you can wise up , AIN'T NO REAL VICTIM GOING TO THE ABUSER, AFTER GETTING A RESTRAINING ORDER ON THEM, even people who never liked JD are starting to say, AH was lying...I will send you a link where AH got her DV story from
@@brennam954 ...,it must be really hard to always he this naive about the fact ,that women can be abusers to
Yes it was so triggering seeing the sexism everywhere during the trial it felt like a personal slap in the face of all survivors, especially painful if it was shared by people you know.
A thousand times thank you for speaking on this. The whole discourse around the trial was one of the most scariest things I have ever witnessed online. As someone who believed Amber from the beginning I felt powerless to say anything to support her because I saw anyone who said anything from neutral to slight support of Amber get dogpiled by stans and bots.
Even offline I couldn't believe how people i knew spoke of the trial and support of Depp without not seeing any bit of evidence. It was one of the few times I have never felt such a loss of faith in humanity so I cannot even phantom what victims of abuse must have felt during the whole thing.
Thank you so much Kat for being brave enough to challenge it.
amber heard did not fight back...there are more than 12 hours of audios of her admitting to be the violent one in the relationship, admitting that she gets violent when she gets mad and she just loses it, she litterally told him "i can't promise you that i will not get physical again,when i get mad i just lose it", she admitted to punching,slapping,spitting and throwing objects at him and called him a pussy and a coward for "always running away and hiding in bathrooms" when she would get violent...she cut off his finger and made up a fake SA story that was proved to be fake by a 5 hour recording that she recorded that night...that man never spoke publicly for years while she dragged him through the mud and only went on curt to confront her with the actual evidence and all of her lies crumbled...what it has been done to that man is shamefull and people like kat tenbarge (worked with amber pr team after the verdict) are continuing said psycological abuse...just look at the evidence.
@@yassinkefi5506 You want a perfect victim.
@@clairekelliest a perfect victim doens't exist but in this case the imperfect victim was Depp...he has issues with substances (she did too) and he said used horrible language but the evidence clearly and undeniably show that she was the violent one and the aggressor,him using bad language was in response to her gaslightin and abusing him..watch the trial and listen to the audio recordings ...it is undeniable
@@clairekelliest You want an imperfect one. Sure: Johnny Depp was the imperfect victim. Heard has a history of abuse, including her sister and ex-girlfriend Tanya Ree. If there was justice in this world, she'd be in prison so everyone could be safe from her.
I hope you soon find your power to speak.
To paraphrase a point made on a previous episode of the Evolution of a Snake podcast, there really are a lot of people who still need to hear the ‘Feminism 101’ message from the Barbie movie. The example of how much hate Ariana Grande received-for yes doing something wrong by getting involved with a married costar-compared to the lack of backlash that her costar got. Also mentioned was the Depp and Heard cases. It’s a double standard for women and men. The standards for women are impossible and the bar is constantly being moved. Many people are happy to take an opportunity to condemn a woman but praise a man.
yep, or that female police officer, whose name was everywhere for having sex with male officers on the force, but naming/shaming her was EVERYWHERE and no naming/shaming of the men who had sex with her. her photo was everywhere. and one might think, "yes that's unfair because they did an equal thing, having extramarital sex with coworkers, but the woman was the only one shamed."
but it turns out, it was even worse than that, because one of the men raped her, and arguably the others knew she was being coerced. so gross that her public image was out there like that, to be further degraded by men online. sick
yep!!
Yup. Things like that are why the FB group "The bar for men is so low it's a tavern in hades" was created
With the Ariana situation- in her case no one was defending or making excuses for her, yet people still feel the need to make gross and abusive comments about her. Not for the sake of "discourse" or conversation, but just for the sake of it.
We see an opportunity to strike out against a woman, and we take it.
It's just like the amount of hate that random influencer got for exposing Adam Levine as a cheater.
Doing a second watch. THANK YOU so much for this one. I lost my family for speaking out about abuse. I have a lot of regrets, but I'd do it again. I don't think there is any way I could have played it that wouldn't have had the same horrible demonizing results.
thank you! the whole time I heard people talking about this I felt so uncomfortable. I never looked into things in depth because it seemed far too messy for me to be able to know the full context around things. But I heard so many people dragging Amber Heard in ways that seemed very sketchy. As a survivor of abuse and discrimination, it was disturbing. This is why I will never take things to court. People will always find any tiny flaw and twist a narrative around it.
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
@SSbrdge oh sure I'm a self-hating man apparently. You got me. Have fun pretending you know what's going on in these people's personal lives and using hateful bullshit to back it up. You people pushed me to my opinion on this with your behavior not "Apologists". And the truth is I am not invested in either party, and I think it's kind of pathetic how many people treated this as some kind of sports team. Neither one of us knows her. You don't know me. I didn't ask for your opinion so you can fuck off now
A lot of content creators (youtubers and tiktokers) jumped in the Amber-hate bandwagon and we should remember. Block them, shame them, and remember. Remember what they said and what they showed to be.
Amber Heard is the abuser, and was proven to be several times. Disgusting how people defend her just because she is a woman.
I was of the same opinion this vid, and that it was a toxic relationship, yet it got turned by the end, well, only that Amber lied and it was toxic, never that Depp should have won. I had empathy because I went through a similar, highly emotional "soul mate" relationship in the 70s, although I left after he beat me to a pulp once, but I did do something amusingly regrettable, mostly accidental, but it resulted in a broken window and grape juice all over his bed and him, when try to sleep off an all-nighter. But yes, serious, as he could have been injured, although I didn't mean to hit the window. He trashed my reputation so badly over that and temporarily ruined my career, as he was an entertainment icon. Never mind that he had tried to kill me, and was yelling that he was going to as he was trying to. I finally escaped by a couple of inches, as he was too drunk to catch me, and fled as he was trying to kick out my car window down the driveway. I passed the police, as the neighbors had called them (he blamed me and said I was trying to get him busted, of course, like I had a cell phone in 1977). The cops did nothing but suck up to him, get his autograph, even though the house was a wreck, he was a wreck, and there was coke all over the house. I went to a friend's, you would never have gone to the hospital or police then, unless life-threatening injuries, esp not against such a skewed power dynamic. I would have never lived it down, even though everyone knew he was guilty, from past behavior, but they made $ from him or just liked brushing with fame. And maybe I wouldn't report it now, esp if famous. Like why bring all that on yourself? I left with nothing but my car, had given up projects for him, so no work, no momey, couch surfing, etc. I never asked him for a penny and it never occurred to him that I was in need.
So I was sick last year for the entire Depp trial, and watched it all. I have to think that, esp after the Depp lawyer was sanctioned, that the Depp Army was used and egged on by them somehow, duh. Because who cares about an old, washed up, irrelevant drunk actor? It made no sense, as much of them were young, although some remembered Pirates, I guess. Plus the manosphere. Depp's theater when he arrived and left, was calculated and disgusting. His behavior on the stand was Trump like. It was the same Trump cult of personality we see everywhere. I'm surprised Amber is still alive, after the thorough beating by the public and Depp. And financial woes. No one will hire her, and she's wonderful on screen. Her worst mistake was trying to become a domestic abuse advocate within the complications of a long-term toxic relationship, which most people don't understand. But the judgement of the young, newly famous is not always great. We are a too wealthy, spoiled, f*d up patriarchal culture. It's so sad that things are barely improved in 2023, for victims of sexual and domestic abuse, than when I was young, 50+ yrs ago. And certainly Amber's bisexuality played a part. I remember, when she got married, that people were saying she wasn't really a lesbian or bi. You just can't win sometimes.
Thank you for speaking out about this. I am someone who initially fell for the propaganda because I had not previously dug into the UK trial, but then upon reading the transcripts it became abundantly clear what the US court case conveniently left out. Seeing people around me STILL support Depp even when all these resources are available to them is so disheartening and seems to be a larger commentary on the state of media literacy.
Also, I don't know if you've seen the video essays by a creator called Medusone but I thought they were very well done! One part of your discussion that made me think of her videos was you mentioning that Amber had significantly more resources than the average victim would, but, even while that might be true when comparing her to an everyday person, I think Medusone's videos did a good job of showing that Amber really was going against a juggernaut financially. She was making at most 500K per year while Johnny is still making millions upon millions in comparison. This is likely why Amber Heard's attorneys were...let's call them inexperienced?
Seeing people who still favour Amber, I suggest they watch the whole trial that shows she, not Depp, was the abuser
Sad that you fell for the lies that those Heard apologists are so good at spreading. But then again, people like Kat here are known for being very good manipulators. I hope that supporting misandry will make you happy. :)
Nice try. Heard's attorneys' fees were all covered by her insurance though. She never paid a dime for representation afaik. So all this argument about financial disadvantage just flies out the window.
She even had an experienced team, she had Roberta Kaplan as her attorney. But they parted ways before the trial, I wonder why.
Very interesting video. I'm glad that you have a podcast now, Matt, I've been following your instagram for a while now and I always found your posts very insightful.
I don't know how known this is internationally, but in Germany it was pretty big news recently that there have been SA allegations from several women against the singer from Rammstein, Till Lindemann. He wasn't found guilty. Unfortunately, I kind of expected that, because SA cases usually turn out that way. Rammstein still play concerts and after the allegations their music was trending again, also sooooooo many people defended Lindemann. I think this case shows how much work we still have to do about awareness of abuse (all forms of it) and how people abuse their power.
The question at the end of "how do we stop this cycle of hating women in he public eye and then regretting it after?" is very interesting. I personally am sceptical always when lots of people dogpile on one person. Usually there is more to the story.
honestly, thank you for this - i was wrong i think, even in assessing this as "an ugly and horrible both-sides situation".. neutrality is not always the golden path
yeah,there are 12 hours of audios of her admitting to beating the fuck out of him,to admitting to initiating the violence and not to reacting while calling him a coward for always running away from her when she would get violent...kat tenbarge worked with amber's PR team after the trial,share edited audios and documents...watch the actual trial!!! that woman abused johnny depp and was also arrested for assaulting her ex-wife
Tbh thats where i landed with this, but mostly because that was my assumption from the start and i refused to watch the Trial because i knew it would Turn into a mess.
My stance now is: sometimes the golden path is to let people Sort their sh*t Out themselves. That Trial is Not for me to See. My opinion on who's the Bad Guy will Not Help anyone. It's literally Not my Business, or anyone elses. I have been around Long enough to know that people wouldnt watch the Trial neutrally, it wouldnt be treated with Care, it would only be used to dunk the people in this Relationship... Probably Amber, because sexism.
So i Just stayed as far away from it as i possibly could.
It's completely surreal watching people drink the Depp Kool-aid, especially as a bisexual survivor of intimate partner violence. Thank you for doing this video.
Kat said around 24 minutes JD sued her in the UK. He never sued Amber in the UK. He sued the Sun.
Also she had the entire 7 million 13 monthes before JD ever sued her.
Thank you so much for this! When the trial was happening the dominant narrative reallllllly bothered me but I assumed I didn’t know enough or something. It was also really disappointing seeing people who I thought would know better joining the mob.
the whole discourse about this case is still so wild to me. I remember when it was going on I really could not escape it anywhere to the point where I went to the grocery store one day and even the cashier who I didn’t know at all started talking to me about it and asking what I think and really projecting their opinions onto me about how unfair it is to men because people believe women and as a male SA survivor, I just felt so uncomfortable like I couldn’t go and buy a jug of milk without being pestered by a stranger by a topic that’s just triggering to see everywhere? Like people would not think twice about making a joke out of a serious topic and dehumanizing a human being which ends up trickling onto other survivors who are not being believed
I approached the trial hating them both. I'm still not a fan of either, but can very much recognise how much the deck was stacked against Amber. I'm glad you've had this conversation.
Amber is the abuser. not the victim.
I think it's also important to point out that this trail was being live streamed in real time. I remember coming across it when it was trending on youtube and it was like day 3 of Johnny's side presenting evidence (who went first). It lasted a while and I stopped following as closely because I had finals by the time it was the other side's turn and frankly I got bored after a while. It's really easy to have a bias form when you're presented a certain argument first for a long time, by a very expensive legal time
This is a very good point. Humans are very prone to anchoring bias - 3 weeks of witnesses talking about how great Depp was and how Amber was terrible would have had a big influence on the jury and the public. She hadn't even testified and people had made their minds up.
there are 12 hours of audios of her admitting to beating the fuck out of him,to admitting to initiating the violence and not to reacting while calling him a coward for always running away from her when she would get violent...kat tenbarge worked with amber's PR team after the trial,share edited audios and documents...watch the actual trial!!! that woman abused johnny depp and was also arrested for assaulting her ex-wife
Thank you for standing up for all of us by standing up for Amber. Instant fan.
I felt like a psychopath watching that trial and the reaction because I distinctly remember articles from the 2000s about his erratic and agressive behavior and abuse in the relationships even though I was a kid?? 15 years before the Mee Too they were talking about how horrible his relationship with Wynona were that happened BEFORE I WAS BORN. Sure, they were doing it in a flippant "well, men ARE assholes, but look SO COOL doing it" 2000s way BUT STILL.
But the most heartbreaking, I think, was seeing so many women say "THIS is why I'll never come out about my abuse. It's just not worth it". And it fucking sucked, because I 100% understood.
The articles are lies: Johnny has trashed a couple hotel rooms; he apologizes for his behavior and paid for the damages; Johnny has no history of abusing any women in his life; and, lmao, Johnny and Winona didn't have a horrible relationship. Winona came to Johnny's defense in 2016. Amber is the one with a history of domestic violence towards her former girlfriends. Amber was arrested in 2009 for abusing her then-wife in front of witnesses at a Seatle airport. There is audio of Amber admitting to physically abusing Johnny.
This has gone on for ages, not just in general, but even with J.D. specifically. I remember Discourse about Winona Ryder coming out and saying some things about the violent way he behaved in their relationship back in the 90s and I remember people talking about it at my school and not believing her. We didn't have as much of a mechanism for making our bullshit public, but the same undermining dynamic was at work.
It's not cheerful to feel how this isn't a product of the internet age, but maybe the internet age can come up with solutions that we never had.
I appreciate the analysis and nuance y'all went into in this discussion both about the emotional sea of the misogynist victim-blame cycle and about the "perfect victim" myth/trope/mentality.
That is a falsehood you're alleging. Johnny was never violent towards Winona Ryder. In fact, Winona came to Johnny's defense, stating he never abused her. Amber, on the other hand, has a history of being violent towards her former partners. Amber was arrested in 2009 for assaulting her then-partner at the airport, in front of witnesses, Amber beat the crap out of her little sister Whitney there is a video it, Amber admitted on audio to physically abusing Johnny and she mocks him when he walks away from her when she is wanting too physically fight him.
A distinction needs to be made between comments made on the internet about the litigants (the reactions) and the trial itself. Yes there was a lot of misogyny in random people’s comments about Heard, and that’s not OK. But I watched the trial and frankly Depp won because his case was much stronger than Heard’s. There was no evidence of misogyny in the decisions of the excellent judge or the jurors. The audio, video, and eyewitness testimony contradicted more of Heard’s testimony and corroborated more of Depp’s. Depp’s expert witnesses came off as thorough and professional, while Heard’s came off as sloppy and, in one case, horribly unethical. I went into the trial with political ideas that would make me lean toward Amber’s side, and by the end of the trial I was convinced that Heard exaggerated and in some cases invented the incidents of abuse she charged Depp with. And that exaggeration and invention is what led to the jury deciding that Heard had defamed Depp. There is a small, but not zero, percent of women who lie about domestic violence, but based on the evidence that was presented in the trial, I had to decide that Heard was one of that small minority. The misogynist reactions to the trial don’t invalidate the trial outcome itself.
Thank you. Glad to see someone else who, like me, was so willing to believe Heard but concluded she was being dishonest. Frankly, I believed her by default, and only started asking questions when I realized he was seriously suing in the US for defamation-thats an infamously hard case for a celeb to win in this country.
And I'm glad I asked questions. I'd say I watched a good 75% of that trial. I tuned in late, and some of it my ADHD just couldnt focus on. But I saw what I needed to to feel comfortable in my conclusion (and of course tried to get recaps of anything I may have missed just in case)
I feel like anyone I know who watched the full trial sided with Depp in the end.
And tbh....I don't think "mutual abuse" exists the way ppl want it to here.
(And yes, her legal counsel was... abysmal. I watched this trial mainly via legal commentary CZcamsrs, which gave me good insight into the actual court happenings, but it also made her lawyers look 3x as bad as they already would have)
But both sides showed how bad the relationship was. If I am not mistaken, the marriage counsellor who spoke for Depp’s team said that she thought the abuse was mutual. How can it be said that Heard did not experience (as a victim) domestic abuse?
@FIRING_BLIND Legal counsel can only do so much. If the client wants it a specific way they cannot say no. Rottenborn would have gone for minor instances and would have succeeded with that, but I guess Heard refused to even backtrack just a little bit from her testimony in the UK.
Did you know Roberta Kaplan was involved at some point but withdrew her team? They stated organizational reasons, but I doubt it was just that.
Thanks for talking about this. I'm so sick of people that do understand that Depp abused her but say that Amber is a bad example of the perfect victim myth because of the reactive abuse. Like, no...she is the perfect example. Perfect victims usually don't exist. Almost all DV and SA victims I've ever worked with snapped back at some point because that's what you do when you're framed as crazy and a liar by the abuser 24/7. For a society that claims to prioritize trauma-informed approaches, they sure as hell haven't understood the dynamics domestic abuse puts the victim in and why active traumatic stress makes people act this way. Which is wild because anyone studying just an ounce of C-PTSD stemming from narcissistic abuse would start understanding this if they truly wanted to. Surprise, trauma triggers permanent fight of flight. How the hell do y'all think the fight response looks once someone is driven to that point? Exactly, reactive toxicity.
And like you said in the podcast: What she did sure as hell wasn't okay either, but that doesn't mean she was the primary abuser. Mutual abuse rarely, if ever, actually exists. That concept comes from reactive abuse being driven by the primary abuser pushing the victim to the point where it looks equal, but the masterlevel of manipulation by the primary abuser is ignored.
This whole case should've never been livestreamed to the masses. Especially because people didn't seem to grasp that the livestreamed case was about defamation and no actual abuse claims.
Also...hot take, but cancel culture and dehumanizing someone is not it. People are so about vigilantism in current times and it's hurting society at large at this point. The Mascara gate part of this podcast drove that point home very well.
Have you watched the trial? All of it, not just snippets?
What did Amber do that was wrong?
Seriously, though. Compared to where a lot of victims of DV are, she is a remarkable example of resilience and grace. Especially considering just how well documented her abuse was. Photos, witnesses, text messages etc. It's crazy to me that she, with all of that, wasn't a perfect enough victim for society. She is a gorgeous young woman - a UN ambassador for goodness sake. She worked as a translator for refugees. She worked with children's hospitals, donating thousands of dollars.
Comparatively, she is far closer to perfection than many victims. And it still wasn't enough. The powerful man prevails once again... but the tides are changing.
@@sparksfly6149 that reminds me of a comment I once saw "debunking" the photos because "all of them were selfies". No evidence is good enough when they've already made up their mind
Not Matt releasing an episode just when I was looking for something to listen to
Amber Heard is the abuser, and was proven to be several times. Disgusting how people defend her just because she is a woman.
Thank you for making this video! During the trial I remember seeing everyone make fun of Amber and in my gut something felt off about the way it was being portrayed so I tried to look up news articles about it to see the ACTUAL evidence (not just people taking brief little video clips and making a personal judgement about whether she seemed like she was lying) and couldn’t find anything that wasn’t tabloids, CZcams, or TikTok videos. So I actually read the UK court decision and the evidence presented in it and I remember being so shocked that people were accusing her of lying when she had so many witnesses and mountains of evidence. And then I was even more shocked when I would try to tell my friends and family and they straight up did not believe me at first (some of them even thought I was just blindly supporting her because she was a woman)-I actually ended up screenshotting 12 of the most relevant pages of the UK Court’s decision, and sending/showing them to people so they’d believe me.
Judging by the comments people are now finally able to acknowledge the misogyny, but they are still not ready to acknowledge the fact that Amber was the victim.
Mutual abuse is a myth. Amber has more than enough evidence to support her case. There is proof that JD physically abused her and there is a lot of it. She fought back towards the end, yes, but that does not negate the fact that he started it and that he had all the power in this relationship. It does not change the fact that she was the victim.
It is okay if you were mislead or wrong about this case, but it is not okay to keep bringing up misinformation.
Stop pretending like "both were bad" is the takeaway here.
Yes, the “both sides suck” people continue to perpetuate misinformation.
This is me being petty. But the fact that there are some people who read "Why Does He Do That" and thought that Amber fits the description that the book provides.....
But also conveniently ignoring the fact that Lundy Bancroft, the author himself actually supports Amber Heard is just funny to me
She wasnt the victim. Shes never been the victim and never will be the victim. Shes a liar.
@@thelittleatari9664 #justiceforamberheard
@@Cauldron6 Justice was served. She lost.
A big reason I chose to drop my assault case was because of depp v. heard. I have bpd as well and almost immediately my abuser’s lawyer was trying to pull the “she’s a crazy liar” card. It was just too painful.
Amber is the one with a history of domestic violence, not Johnny.
@LaraCroftEyes1 Johnny does have a history of violence lmao
great episode! thanks to the both of you ♡
It was in Virginia. Around the same time Depp sued Heard, I was sued in the next county over for *withdrawal of sexual relations.* In domestic relations matters, only physical violence is recognized as abuse in Virginia. This state can barely recognize that slavery is no longer legal.
„She was 22 the age of a college graduate“
Me, 24 years old only now starting to write my bachelors thesis: 👁️👄👁️
I had believed her guilty at the time but was uncomfortable with the dogpiling and people taking pleasure in hating on her, and now you are telling me she wasn't even guilty! wow.
I never thought the saying "Perfect is the enemy of good enough" would apply so well to abuse victims.
THANK YOU for dissecting this!!! I witnessed the beginning rumblings of the abuse allegations when it first started coming out and got whiplash from the switch in public opinion later on. when i was first aware of it, most people were on Amber's side, because so much evidence of his abuse was coming out and verified by those around them. i hadn't paid attention to them for the past decade because i'm not really fan of either and they both sort of disappeared in the mainstream. it wasn't until the trial that i started to feel gaslit by the trial itself and public opinion because so much of it was reversed by the cult of personality that is Johnny Depp. even people that i knew personally and respected were calling them "mutually abusive" which wasn't my understanding of the situation at all.
Thank you for this conversation, really glad I stumbled on your channel :)
The thing that got me about this was how many women are anti-women :( In my office (90% women) ALL of them took Jonny's side, repeated the 'Amber Turd' slur endlessly, 'no way my Jonny would do that', etc. Troubling as I work for a service which has contact from many female DV victims. Even the Daily Mail, mentioned here as 'anti-women', has most of its senior writer and opinion piece writer positions filled by prominent female commentators. I wonder if it's just a feature of British-style feminism, that the only women they'll support must act a certain way... the same place that Britain's epidemic of TERFs comes from.
They're anti-abusers, if a woman is an abuser and caught lying most people will have a problem with them. Is it anti-women to be against Lori Chadbell and Jodi Arias and Casey Anthony also? All those of us who are against Amber's actions doesn't care what her gender is.
And you should be proud of your colleagues for understanding who was the abuser and supporting the victim in this scenario
Amber is the abuser she was arrested for domestic violence in 2009 at a Seattle Airport physically abusing her then-wife, and there is audio of Amber admitting physically abusing Johnny.
The reason why your colleagues call Amber Heard, Amber Turd is because she defecated on Johnny's side of the bed. Johnny has no history of domestic violence to any women in his life and feminism and society don't want to accept that women can be abusive to their boyfriends and husbands.
@@tuldw5207 You forget Jonny was found in court to be a wife beater
@@WanderlustZero You mean in the UK? Actually, the Sun had to prove that they wrote what they believed to be true, they wrote a story and had to prove that, look, she told us this and we didn't have any reason not to believe her.. they can write a story about me for example, and if I sue them and my son gave them the story and testify in court, being true or not, they have enough reason to write the story..
That's apart from the fact that it's a completely different system and many disagree with how the judge disregarded much of the evidence.
In the US trial the world got to see both sides for themselves, plus the unsealed docs afterwards, and make up their own minds. And trust me, women, men, DV victims etc will not stand by someone just because he's a good actor or whatever.
Amber got what she deserved, I'm really sorry but she mocked real victims, and a lot of people got really hurt and triggered by her actions! Her actions were despicable.
And btw, is it feminism to stand by a woman if you think she has abused her husband? I honestly want to know
I always knew amber was the victim since the very beggining, the fact that many people didn’t see trough depp’s BS still boggles me!
so many ppl still don't... honestly it still feels unsafe to be on AH side online bcos u get attacked
I mean, it just shows that you're based in this regard when u somehow 'knew' it even before the trial
Maybe they watched the trial, other than you?
I genuinely appreciate that y'all did this. This trial reminded me that although Me Too made various changes to the industry, people are still willing to overlook abuse of various kinds because their favorite celebrity is involved. Witnessing just how backwards we still were as a society was very uncomfortable and scary.
Abuse pushes you to absolute extremes. No perfect victim ever existed. The journey to forgiving yourself for the wounded cruelty you enact is a long and intensely sacred one (for the lack of a better word). That Amber was denied the ability to do that in peace is beyond tragic.
Oh, give me a fucking break. 🙄
So according to this logic only men are abusers and all women are perfect victims?
@@nocturnalrecluse1216 from what? reality? that actually sounds really nice
@@moominwoo2316 What? The fiction of YOUR reality?
@@moominwoo2316 Amber was never a victim and she had a long history of violence. Your ideology is based on misandry, nothing more.
Well, I have to say, two years ago, I didn't exactly follow the trial and all the drama but I definitely did think that Amber Heard was a somewhat narcissistic attention seeker trying to get a buck out of a failed relationship. Boy did this episode change my mind. Thank you both.
Matt and Kat are wrong they didn't listen to four hours of audio of Amber gaslighting Johnny, and neither did you, and Matt and Kat never watched the Virginia trial. Amber is the abuser.
You had it wrong the first time, you have it wrong now. But keep looking, maybe one day you will get the picture.
@@veelafayette7653 well, if you possess the truth, would you enlighthen me ?
The weird part is that people thought someone was going to jail, it's a defamation trial not a criminal one like that part seemed to fly over people's heads.
The makeup palette? Oh my fucking god. Fact-checking the concealer she used to cover her BRUISES Jesus Christ… I’m so glad I wasn’t following this at the time bc I would have flipped