The Mom Who Invented Gender Reveals Regrets It
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- čas přidán 9. 10. 2023
- In 2008, Jenna Karvunidis was looking for ways to involve her distant mother in the life of her soon-to-be child. Fifteen years, thousands of acres of wildfires, and a few plane crashes later, she wishes she could put the genie back in its bottle.
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Produced by Samantha Land: / samalander
Edited by Justin Bretter: / fieldsobriety - Zábava
There's such a drastic difference between the reason why Jenna did her gender reveal (nice and wholesome) and why modern gender reveals are done (dumb and disastrous).
Honestly girl, if you hadn't invented it, someone else would have. and they might not have grown the way you have since, and helped the conversation around gender as you have
So true. In another universe it could have instead been a woman who ended up finding the "gender critical" movement and going full terf, using her newfound platform to spout hate all over right wing news. Glad she ended up going in the right direction and is using her voice to speak up like she has.
It's very comforting to hear from a mom who doesn't have her own mom in her life. People talk a lot less about abusive moms than dads, and it can be daunting wanting to one day become a mom without having one in your life to base things off of. Jenna seems like a wonderful mother!
Odds are that you are not a woman.
To be fair there was really no way Jenna could possibly have known that celebrating a small personal milestone in her pregnancy would lead to a bunch of weirdos accidentally crashing planes, blowing themselves up and starting wildfires. Its like if you gave someone a pencil and they used it to stab someone: definitely unfortunate, but not the fault of the pencil giver.
I think her ducky cake was really cute. If we werent living in the age of constantly comparing to the most outstanding works of art on the web, everyone would be impressed by a cake like that.
I know, right?? It's adorable!
Yes! Justice for the fat lipped ducky cake, I'm sure it was DELICIOUS
As a trans man around Jenna's age, it's wonderful to hear her experience from the early internet "blogosphere". At the time I had a lot of contempt for mommy bloggers, which I now see had more to do with internalized misogyny and frustration with how the gender binary is policed. And I legit choked up when she mentioned her writing about how US abortion laws are designed to target trans men - it's astonishing to hear that from someone outside our community! Such a good interview.
I'm trans woman with an autistic focus towards following politics, but I haven't actually heard this one until now... I'd really like to learn more about this. If you don't mind, may I ask you if you have any links (like articles, videos, reddit threads, w/e) that elaborate on this point? :)
I think its refreshing to see someone who could have doubled down and turned it into a grift who didn't and dedicates time to taking a chisel to that legacy.
The conversation about her daughter feeling like she can’t touch anything that’s not pink made me think of this one video with girls being given “boy” toys and boys being given “girl” toys. The girls had no problem playing with the “boy” toys or toys that were blue, but the boys looked so uncomfortable just being in a pink room surrounded by pink toys. They wouldn’t even touch the “girl” toys, with the exception of one boy. It’s so sad that kids have these restrictions put on them so much to the point where they can’t even be near a color associated with a gender that isn’t theirs.
We also have the problem that MANY people who consider themselves to be trans use these very socially constructed stereotypes as a basis for determining to thsemsleves that they are trans.
for anyone interested, Julia Serano's essay 'What Is Transmisogyny?" links to various studies highlighting the tendency of masculinity in girls to be more easily accepted by parents than femininity in boys. I mean, just think about it: does a politically correct term equivalent to "tomboy" exist for feminine boys? If no, then why not?
I would have been that one boy! 😂 But seriously, I wasn't raised in an extremely gendered way so my view of toys is "fun things to play with", not "these are for boys, these are for girls, and you can't cross the line". I played Barbie if they were available, or with trucks if they were available, and it never really crossed my mind that either were "meant" for specific kids. I did a TON of imaginative play so usually the "boy stuff" and the "girl stuff" got all mixed together. So, for example, Barbie would have some sort of interpersonal conflict with a friend Barbie and to blow off some steam she'd go to her job driving a dump truck. After she cooled off she'd call her friend, they'd make amends, then go shopping and put on a fashion show for the other Barbies. You could have given me some sticks and rocks as a kid and I could come up with some sort of story to play out with them.
@idcompiler Yes a politically correct term for feminine boys (and enbies) exists. And that is the term femboy (or femboi), but it is less well-known than tomboy. And femboy is offensive if used to describe a transwoman (because then it is misgendering/invalidating)
oh yeah I saw that video! it was so eye-opening and for anyone interested, it's titled 'We Gave Girls a Room Full of "Boys Toys" ' from Jubilee.Another great one is "Girl toys vs boy toys: The expectations" from BBC where you can see how people unconsciously assign gender roles through toys.
i teared up when she talked about how her daughter is on her own journey and has her own story to tell. something about a parent having such apparent respect for their childs autonomy is so moving and beautiful. what an awesome lady. i only hope to be as wonderful a parent
Next up on _Gender Reveals: Extreme Edition,_ this man had his blood dyed pink or blue. The happy couple will behead him to find out whether they’re having a boy or a girl. Don’t go anywhere.
She's great! As a trans man what she said about the abortion ban has made me feel so seen.
You’re a woman/female. You will never be a real man/male.
I know, right?! My jaw dropped to hear that coming from a cis person.
@@robynabeeYeah! When we get "unexpected" support it feels always amazing. I'm really happy for her children, must be awesome to grow up knowing they will be supported no matter what.
This entire interview was the mental health boost I needed, im 76 days until I can start estrogen and I’ve been waiting for my entire life, and especially in this political climate, hearing that not all cis people assume we’re crazy is very, very helpful.
@@ashisburning7786 Wish you luck on your journey!
A similar thing happened with the guy who came up with the ba alpha wolf thing, found out it was just captive wolves and went on to try and disprove the original theory.
I really respect Jenna for her speaking out about this
The best gender reveal party idea I've seen was someone saying they'd make the icing green, and when ppl are confused they're like "surprise bitches! Gender is a construct, and y'all are gonna sit here while I give you a PowerPoint lecture on gender theory 101"
I'm very tempted to do that, instead we've agreed the "gender reveal" is when someone changes our baby's diaper. Like. It's irrelevant to anything but that.
I thought they would say their kid is a goblin
During this convo I kept thinking about how the famous model Iskra was talked out of having a gender reveal in real time by commenters on her Instagram account. She listened to all of her trans, NB and allied fans who explained how enforcing a gender binary on infants is harmful, and not only did she skip the "reveal", she did not mention the baby's gender at all in subsequent posts, instead focusing on the qualities that make them beautiful and unique. Thank you to Jenna for helping to create a space in the culture where people feel safe refuting the binary.
Why is the gender binary harmful to infants? Is there Science-backed, full-proof evidence that can more than substantially support that claim? Sonologists and doctors ask expectant mothers or parents if they want to know the gender of their unborn all the time! No difference either after they are born.
Until probably the last 10 years humans, for the most part, got along with life and no doctors ever have officially declared that gender binary is harmful. In what sense?!
Just a side topic but I love how she said back in the day there was no money to be made with a blog, just a kind of diary or exchange with a community of likeminded people. Nowadays everyone acts like you HAVE to make money from it. Like creators HAVE to take ads and sponsorships, make their own products…I’m obviously not shaming anybody who makes it their career. But what’s wrong with treating it more as a hobby? Making less polished content and having a smaller community who’s actually super interested in the topics. Especially if it’s not taking hours and hours out of your day.
I used to read soooo many blogs back in this era. I wasn’t reading mommy blogs but running blogs. There was not a sponsorship in sight. There were ads on the sides and things. But these people weren’t trying to really make money. Maybe buy a pair of leggings or something. But I’d definitely say hustle culture and capitalism are what push people to think that everything needs to be productive and make money.
I miss that era of the internet so much, holy *_fuck._*
@@ember-brandtSame!!!
I feel like it's because of the opportunity to create content as a career instead of having to work in a soul-killing, underpaid 9-5 job. If you hit big on the internet, you could set up a decent life and have more control over your labor and the overall product.
@@sparklyninja12 It's still all because of capitalism.. which just perpetuates the issues of the "soul-killing, underpaid 9-5 jobs". The way content creators make money is advertising. It's all about selling something even if it's not directly. But there are a lot of issues and I don't think it's sustainable long term (like 30 year career long term) to be a content creator who focuses on themselves as their brand. It's slightly different for content that isn't just focused on you and what you do and like.
Honestly teared up listening to this. She is such an amazing person. Someone who works super hard to make lives easier for others. Thank you for giving her a platform. ❤️
You summed it up so perfectly- “very human”. People saw her gender reveal photos and RAN with it. Understanding the nuance of people’s personal reasons for making a decision is very underrated but immensely important. It’s not for all of us and that’s okay!! Very sobering and cool conversation here
I’m so honored to get to see this podcast develop in real time! Your ability to humanize and contextualize polarizing topics is a gift and an art ❤
Sometimes all the stuff you hear about is awful and makes you despair about the world. And then there's the time you hear that the lady who invented gender reveals is actually legit af, has a lot of good opinions and speaks them publically, and seems to be in a really good place in her life. Excellent interview 💯🔥
I discovered i am an intersex person last year, which aligns with how ive always "felt" who i was since i was a child.
I hope someday, concerning gender reveal parties, families will be more supportive of folks like me. That would be a beautiful thing
18:44 we need to tell men like THAT that if they want a boy to grow the baby themselves. I hate it too. I hate it so much. My ex husband was super into this idea that I should keep getting pregnant until it's a boy. Thank hell and back we never got pregnant at all.
What a wonderful, aware, heartwarming and resilient woman. My 5 year old tomboyish self felt very seen and heard in the few moments she talked about her daughter. Somehow the fact that Jenna, the inventor of gender reveals, is the most wholesome person with such an interesting story to tell gives me some hope for the world we live in.
The “pearls of guns” thing is especially haunting knowing that there’s such a high unaliving rate amongst men because they tend to use guns as a means of completion. So the fact that we’re already baptizing children into a world of toxic masculinity before they’re even born…bleak af
Not done with the episode but very fascinating. I thought that gender reveal parties were around for much longer before 2008. But now that I think about it none of my friends and peers ever mentioned their parents talking about their gender reveal party.
Well it was also much less common to actually KNOW the sex of the baby before birth. Like I was born in 1990 and my mom said that wasn't really an option back then, maybe if they had a lot of money or something. But back then a "gender reveal" was just a card you would send out after the birth saying "it's a girl!" With the child's name and weight and stuff like that 😂
Matt I've been loving this podcast! The warm, welcoming tone with a touch of humour really helps with these topics 🌈🧡
Ok, but why is the Trans Gender Reveal party an AMAZING idea???????!!!!!!!!!
Because it's not something parents do because of their baby's genitals to force their child into a blue/pink gender stereotype but an act of self empowerment and celebrating who you really are.
It's kinda subversive.
Jenna I don't know if you'll ever see this, but you are such a fantastic parent by being such an absolutely FANTASTIC PERSON!!!! 😄 You kept going above and beyond of being such a forethinking advocate for kids and the intersectionality of other issues, and what they're parents really need to consider from before, during, and after they're born to give them the safest most loving space that they all deserve, and what helps everyone in so many ways in the long run. I had read a small little snippet from an article about how you were the person that started gender reveals and you regret it, which I thought I was great, but getting to know so much more about your story and your thoughts has absolutely wowed me with just how wonderful a person you are that that small article couldn't fully capture. Thank you so much for sharing! ❤
I never got people not believing she started the trend. Do you not watch tv, sitcoms specifically? Every major sitcom would have a gender reveal party episode if it was a thing back then. Mostly, people were just "would you like to know?" and if you did, you said it. And that's it.
As a girl who would have wanted to wear a tuxedo for my family photo, this really touch deep ♥
At first I thought the title said 'The Mom Who Invented Gender Reveals (That) She Regrets It'
Ok I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this lmao
WOW. Just WOW! I absolutely LOVED this episode. I feel SO identified with Jenna... I'm a mom too, and I think I'm about the same age of her. (I'm 43, born on 1980).
I also come from a very dysfunctional family, my mom was very psychologically abusive towards me my whole life. And I also became more compassionate and aware after becoming a mom. I feel that I was sort of "open-mindISH", and that I always wanted to do things completely different as my mom did with me, but the arrival of my first kid in 2016 (yes I'm an OLD mom) was absolutely eye opening for me. Like a complete life changing event.
Of course I know having a child is a life changing event for almost everyone, but I mean that it completely changed the way I saw everything... First of all, as I said, I always wanted to do things different than my mom did with me, but I didn't fully understand that I was a victim of abuse until I had my own kid and understood I could never treat him as she did with me...
And before having my kid I always thought that the most important thing to me was he to be smart. And suddenly after he was born, I realized that all that matters to me is that he is happy (as you say at the end of the episode) and kind.
I always saw myself as non homophobic, but the truth is that I was prejudiced... Until I had my kid and realized he could be queer and I don't wanted him to be the victim of prejudiced people. And only then I realized every queer person in the world is someone's kid and I want to treat EVERY PERSON IN THE WORLD as I would like my kid to be treated.
Actually my two kids are neurodivergent (autistic) and face a lot of discrimination because of that (even though their autism is very "mild", I cannot imagine if this is how they're treated, how is the treatment other people with more severe divergence has to face). And that made me even more aware of how important it is to fight ALL prejudice.
Well, thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I just wanted to say you are absolutely AMAZING, I love you, how you think, and everything you post online, and now I love this podcast of yours and that this episode has been the best. Thank you for sharing your beautiful mind with all of us. ❤
she is incredible! she is so eloquent and holds herself so well, i loved listening to her speak! she is such a light
Jenna is based as fuck and I wouldn’t complain if she was a regular on this channel lmao. I love hearing what she has to say
I’m so glad that your elementary school experience was better than mine! On my first day of kindergarten in 1999 I said that I liked video games and the girl sitting across from me said, “Video games are for boys.” I immediately stopped playing them and started attempting to like playing with dolls. It didn’t help at all that most of the boys didn’t want to play with a girly girl and it didn’t matter that my interests were more “masculine” and nerdy. I’m just glad that 5-year-old me didn’t make the connection that computer games are video games because that loophole allowed me to have one fun activity other than reading.
Great video btw I didn't even know that gender reveal parties had any particular origin. I thought ppl just got bored and wanted to have another excuse to party. I also didn't know about the celebration for women who struggled with miscarriages and the emotions tied to that.
27:20 "you can't play with normal Legos?" Yes! Exactly. When I was a kid, we all had the same Legos in primary colors, wore the same denim overalls, etc. Toy aisles weren't split into pink and blue.
People really thought you were interviewing someone who died in 1967… damn.
I feel so bad for her 😭 she was just wanting to celebrate her baby man
Ok awesome, but WHO in their right mind would think you're interviewing oppenheimer (who has been dead for nearly 60 years).
We don't need this kind of pessimism
Why would the World Health Organization think he’s interviewing Oppenheimer
I love everything about the title. #Genderheimer
It's accurate and poignant.
she seems so sweet
Matt- so loving your podcasts and getting to hear your deeper thoughts around our culture and politics. Really enjoyed hearing from Jenna and her perspective
I haven't seen the whole thing yet. But I am already in love
I was made fun of as a kid but my dad was definitely my first bully. He wanted me to be prepared and have comebacks ready I guess but he’s the one who hurt me the most because he’s my dad, he’s supposed to comfort and there were so many different ways to help kids defend themselves. So that part really hit home.
I struggled with this growing up for sure. I was a "tomboy" and questioned my gender young because I didn't feel like I fit "female" gender norms, and fit more into the "male" norms. I realized I feel like a woman, but I still struggled through that because of the gender norms that have been set since I was young. Thank you so much for covering this topic ❤
I’m very new to your content, but this has quickly become one of my favorite new podcasts! Loving all the content you’re putting forward. I drop everything I’m doing to listen immediately!
Honestly the cake is creative af I love it
I remember those days of the internet, before everything became about fame. It was... interesting. 😂 I had my son in 2011, and I hadn't even heard of "gender reveal parties" at that time. We just had a baby shower and all the decor was blue, and that's how we let people know lol. I know Jenna has said she regrets starting this, but I don't really think she did start it. I think other people blew it out of proportion (no pun intended) and the internet fame thing really has a huge impact on that.
They mean "started" in the sense that she popularized the trend (albeit accidentally). I'm sure she wasn't the literal first one in history (ultrasounds have been used for pregnancy since 1956) to ever think of it.
@@ember-brandtI think what they’re trying to say is that she may be the first to have what we call a gender reveal, others who came after her made it what we think of when we say that phrase
ABF has been my favorite podcast as of recent, such amazing and insightful perspectives. It feels like Matt has such an amazing way of talking about pretty popular topics at the moment and some how is always able shine a fresh new light on them while we get to know really interesting people. As a recently out trans person seeking comfort and support in who I am, I’m just really grateful to find spaces like this. Thank you so much for your work, and I’m so excited to see what’s next!💖
Jenna is such a badass and an inspiration. I'm an Indian woman, I see those sex determination legal notices every time I get an ultrasound... it's daunting circumstances here. And to see someone do what they can with such humour and grace?? Has my heart ❤
I can't imagine someone else wouldn't have invented these parties. By 2024, with how up in arms people are about gender, someone would have made parties to celebrate their babies' genitalia. But Jenna is a great advocate. Honestly, she seems just so smart and just SO resilient. All Jenna wanted was a party where people would be excited she was having a baby, and now she's an advocate for trans rights (among so many other important issues). So if anyone created these, I'm glad it was someone socially aware and truly caring like Jenna. Honestly, she kind of inspires me to bounce back.
my little brother is biologically male but he’s very into “girly” things, accessories and toys and media and so on, and i’m glad people like matt and jenna are making the world a better place for him ❤️
I like watching the podcast and then replay it on Spotify while I sleep at night to give Matt extra views. I LOVE this content and I hope he keeps going
My biggest regret as a parent, given all that is happening lately, is that I ever revealed the sex of my children. They would be the most free from outside influence on “how to be a boy/girl” if others just … didn’t know what was in their diapers.
So that’s what I think is the role for gender reveal parties. I never had them for my kids, but if I could do it all over, I would have a gender reveal with a rainbow inside, to reveal that my children’s sex/gender will remain private and up to them to disclose when they decide to.
This interview was awesome. You interacted with her in a very encouraging and wholesome way, and she, on her part, showed that she's a very open minded individual
Matt, your voice is so soothing that I was hoping to fall asleep to it but this conversation is so entertaining that I'm just laughing my ass off in bed. So now I'm really appreciative of tbis podcast but am gonna wake up cranky in the morning 😭
The guest just has star energy, so relatable and grounded and empathetic
As someone who was an extremely gender nonconforming child, it's honestly. Very very touching to hear a parent standing up for gendernonconforming kids.
And I also really respect someone who was a mommy blogger saying "that's my kid's story to share" and protecting her daughter's privacy. Very touching & hopeful interview in what feels like an increasingly dark time.
She is so very cool. Great episode!
I hated people who made gender reveal parties, but after hearing the intentions of how it originated I honestly feel so bad for the mom being interviewed lol. It's sad how a party that was originally made to build a community around the child and celebrate a successful pregnancy after multiple miscarriages turned into this dangerous trend that burned forests and killed people. I wish people could keep the original intentions of the party without pushing the gender binary (and stop injuring people and destroying their surroundings).
I first heard about gender reveal parties when there was a massive explosion in my front yard, my cousin having stuffed a pumpkin with dynamite and shot it with her dad's shotgun.
She also changed the colors to orange and purple specifically so she could use the pumpkin. You'll never guess what color the smoke was!
Amazing work, excellent guests!!
35:05 and there was also a ton of plastic pollution, including people dumping pink/blue plastic confetti reveal props into coursing rivers
ugh im obsessed with this podcast
I love that dialogue, I think it was a great time and over all I'm happy to hear another truth, and I would say we needed that as well as we all need these points of view to be more spread for the better future! I love you!
Jenna is so genuine and so amazing!!!!💖💖
loving this podcast so much! one of the first podcasts that i've been consistently keeping up with!
didn't expect her to be so iconic
These are alwaus so informative and im always blown away by how much i learn. Keep up the great work, we're all rooting for you!
hey matt, just wanted to thank you for your work here. it helped inspire my paper into a totally different piece about the ethics of mommy content online from one about a more vague, more brutish "what's wrong with family vlogging" angle i was originally writing about. jenna is such an interesting person that i would've had in mind while writing. anyway, thanks for the 100%.
How are you so young and yet so incredibly eloquent and well spoken on such tough topics, great work and I can't wait for more!
She seems like an absolute delight, not least of all to have as a mom ❤
Love this podcast so much! Love all the perspectives, so thoughtful and open minded. Thanks for all the work you put into this!
I'm loving this podcast❤️ such interesting quests! I've never heard of Jenna before but it was great hearing her tell her story
This was a wonderful discussion. Thank you so much. I've never liked the idea of gender reveals for many of the reasons discussed here but this video also gave me food for thought as to other consequences and reasons that I hadn't considered. Jenna is an absolute delight, isn't she? I'll admit, knowing nothing of how the whole thing began, I didn't know what to expect but was oh-so pleasantly surprised. I only discovered your channel recently and I am doing a catch up of your wonderful content. Keep up the good work!
this podcast show is gold. 💖
I love hearing about parents who raise their children with such kindness and respect. Gives me hope for the future. 🥰
Honestly Jenna seems like such a cool person, and watching this video made my day
Such a fascinating interview 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Great episode. Jenna is a gem.
This is wonderful. Two beautiful people. Love it
Beautiful episode..
This channel is an eloquent breath of fresh air, thank you again for another excellent video and interview❤
This was such a great guest!
Thanks again Matt
What a great hour listening to these two wonderful souls,you have made my day, week!
Hi Matt, thank you for existing.
Banger guest after banger guest, I love this podcast so much ❤
It’s so interesting! Kids will absolutely be who they are. I’m a straight cis woman who’s always been a bit of a tomboy (no dresses, skirts, or makeup really). My daughter is the pinkest girliest girl ever and my husband and I are like “where did she get this from?” 😂 Nothing in our hose was ever intentionally gendered but she just gravitated to every girly stereotype.
The intro puns 😅👏💕🔥💙
Really enjoyed the interview ❤
I really like her 😊 what a great interview!!
I’m 10/10 adding “trans-illiterate” and “gay-illiterate” to my vocabulary
Wonderful podcast yet again Mr. Bernstein.
Listened to this earlier on Spotify but i had to come over to see the duck cake! 😂😂
Please, *SHARE THIS* with everyone!
I immediately started tearing up when she said that her daughters story is hers to tell and didnt reveal necessarily how shes apart of the queer community. It just shows so much love and respect and its just so nice to see
Idk if you're getting to this and I'm just being impatient, but in regards to people pushing back against the "gender reveals are bullshit" post: BABY SHOWERS HAVE BEEN A THING FOR A LONG TIME, you can HAVE a celebration of the fact that you're probably about to have a baby without drawing any correlations between your child's genitals and their future interest in guns or pearls! Have your party, it's fine, you can do that WITHOUT the gender nonsense, we've been doing that for freaking EVER.
she's such a sweet person
This is just like Oppenheimer🤯
I've told my partner people will find out what genitals our baby has when they change a diaper, lol, and threatened to tell my family it's one sex and his family is another.
First damn ultrasound, in the ER to make sure it wasn't ectopic because I was having cramping and spotting, the nurse asked if we "know what we're having." And all I could say was hopefully a baby and not a miscarriage? I was wearing a they/them pin, mind you, and it's in my chart. And still, despite all the circumstances, she had the gall to ask that.