World of Warships- The Biggest Problem The Game Is Facing
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
- Hey guys! Today we discuss what you guys think is the biggest issues with World of Warships, enjoy!
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The thing that has had me close to quitting on multiple occasions is how often blowouts happen. I am fine with them happening periodically. However, it is easily 50% or more of matches that turn into a blowout. That is too often for my liking.
I've had strings of 5-7 team blowout losses far more often in the last year than anytime else. Before then at most I'd get 3 straight losses, but then an equal series of wins. Now it'll be 5 straight losses, 1-2 wins, then another 5+ losses; no matter what I do and often still being match MVP.
90 % blow out. i lost 15 straight, 5 games under 2 kills or 0.
One of my big issues with the game is double up-tier. It's been around forever and it will be around, but being a tier 6-7 into a tier 8-9 game is so painful and frustrating because it feels like bottom tier can't do anything in game because they don't have the range, damage, overmatch capabilities, armor, utility etc. that high tier has in the same match. If the player base was larger and able to consistently hold large populations across servers they could only have 1 uptier for matches. But there just isn't enough people to justify
The other team also has same tier as you. It can be painful ofc but you also earn more xp/credits and makes you learn your ship better. Also some times a t7 goes into t5 matches...
In my experience, games with just two tiers are usually quite fairly balanced.
I genuinely believe getting rid of double-uping will fix most problems.
Tier 9 is terrible. So many super ship games
There are enough people. The matchmaking time doesn't change much if you limit to one tier delta. The math behind it shows this.
In the mid-tiers you are GUARANTEED to be Bottom-tier 1/3 of the time. Mid-tier 1/3 and Top-tier 1/3. So, 2/3rds of the time you are up-tiered. But its even worse that you think. Often when it's your turn to be Top-tier the Matchmaker cannot make it happen so they just dump all of the same tier into a single tier and call it your Top-tier match. The problem with that is you were a T-7 getting beaten by T-9s and then a T-7 getting beaten by T-8s but when it came your turn to be the "bully" you had no T-5s or T-6s in your "top-tier" match. It was all T-7s. This is by design. And don't get me started about superships.
My main issue is how the matchmaking never takes the ship capabilities into account: a team could have 3 radars, while the other team has none. a team could have a hybrid BB or two while the other team does not.
In real Life navaö battles were far more unfair
I have had that happen so many times, including the other team having far more radar ships, AND...DDs with better detection. Talk about rough matches. You have to work far harder than the other side to win.
@@akwardness8633dude, in real life, barring a few very unusual instances, once a ship is sunk, it’s gone. Once a captain dies, he’s gone. Hydro also detected subs. Radar wasn’t a short burst thing. Do we add it all? Your argument is the lowest IQ retort to a genuine concern, nothing worse than I roll out my Jager and get a CV, and 2 hybrids in the enemy team, and I have 1 CV. I can only get so much air support (as useless as it is) from the friendly CV player if I’m lucky he’s a team player and not div’d up with someone as well.
@@boydy7351 exactly what i meant, and this dude is crying bcs one team got a radar ship
This is why i just log in, get my 3 coal containers and leave.
so you went in to play the game .... wow you really are showing wows who is the boss
So you keep playing got it.
How many games do you need to play to get the 3 coal rewards. 30?
Greedy monetization and a host of problems that are derived from it, including matchmaking and ship classes not suitable for the game (subs and CVs).
Players is the problem, especially when all they do is sniping, even in brawling bbs, how many times you see 4 ships tangled together 20km from cap?? Some people are so scared they probably fear that they will literally loose their ship if they sink.... No guts, no risk, no strategic thinking, no crossfires, nothing...
Agree. Once had all survivors hiding behind same rock. Not one cap taken . Other side took all of them. We had more ships the whole match. 3 can't win a match. Especially when 1 ship stops the big group!
Players are fked .I have seen players with great stats and do not much but stay back and survive for the stats
Tbh I don't blame them. If a single person charges into battle with 0 support they're going to be sunk. And no one even tries to support them most of the time.
Dude I’ve got so fed up of it I’ve been taking pictures of the map when I get wacked trying to cap against 5ships on my own and they are parked behind an island in a T8-10 not even shooting. Still some prick screaming for intelligence data while you have 5ships in front of you. And then they troll? All are protecting their ratings. Should be premised for not shooting at spotted ships or hiding
@@drag8371 There are many random scenarios to argue about, the issue is there are too many chickens who think cap contest is a certain death or they lemming to one side of the map and be passive as fuck nevertheless...
I dont care about skill based as much I used to care about it, but I do want them to change the +2 and -2 Tier Match Making. Especially for T7 and below. Make T7 a +1 and -1 Tier Match Making. Then T8 to T 11 can be +2 / -1 Tier Match Making.
Make it +1/-1 for everyone, the power difference between tier 8 ships and tier 9 ships is not even funny and even bigger compared to tier 10 ships
Map rotation, or lack there of, is also an issue.
Get the same map 3-4 times in a row but as they are in different modes WG doesnt see it as the same map.
my problem is that a hybrid ship isn't seen as a hybrid ship in the matchmaker. i would have liked to see that if a Kearsarge is in the enemy team, it would be matched up against another hybrid battleship. and only if it takes to long to find a hybrid battleship to match it with, then look for another hybrid ship of a different class. and same for radar cruisers. if it would match those against each other, it would be a lot more fair
I like the randomness, accept the challenge. Making hybrid ships or radar ships wait longer just so MM can shuffle them around sounds more like a problem.
@@quor2243 that's fair. But maybe give it 20 seconds to try and match a hybrid vs hybrid, and after that random?
I didn't vote for match maker though I hate double uptier, double sub and double cv games. I would like them to diversify on game modes and less on new ships and gimmicks. New maps and open ocean type of battles. Maybe even with bigger fleets complemented by bots on each team.
Skill based matchmaking in pubs ruins games it ruined hunt and it ruined cod it actively disincentivizes getting better at the game and having a really good game just makes you want to delete the game because you know you will get slapped with players way better than you for the rest of the night. I think its way more fun and rewarding to just have a mixed matchmaking pool in pubs. Leave the elo in ranked.
The double up/down tier is what does it for me. Specifically the games when you are the ONLY tier 7 cruiser and everything else is 9s and some 8s. Lots of fun
Yea it is kind of rough at times. Like when I want to have fun in Brandenburg but end up in a match of all tier 10 except for me. Just have to try and make the best of it tho. See it as a challenge and possibility of good rewards. Heck it can feel like an accomplishment just to survive the match or survive into the late game
As a returning player staying in lower tiers I've found a few things problematic. One is -2 MM more times than not gets really old just like it does in tanks. The other two things I'm finding irksome are the carriers being able spew unlimited flights of planes and keep ships nearly perma spotted entire games and subs that can ping and ping and ping while vomiting flipping homing torpedoes.
MM is my biggest complaint also. And I do wish there was a way for more specialization in the MM...like gunbote dd vs torp bote dds (concealment based even..a team full of 68-7.5 conceal dds vs a team of 5.5-6 conceal matters)...number of potential radars matters....hybrids matter. But even more so is the tier difference. I would much rather sit in Q for an extra 1 min for a +/-1 MM than to be in my t9 and get in a t11 game. Super ships should only get t10-11 game....if they have to sit in Q for 5 min, so be it. The difference jumps at the module break points like 7-8 is just massive and at high tiers with how armor works in this game...2 tier can just be brutal.
But I also still put CVs and aircraft as tied for biggest problem. Mainly because there is NOTHING i can do about them. AA doesnt work. Island terrain doesnt work. If I am in a dd in a ranked game, I might as well go back to port with a good plane player as I will stay perma-spotted unless I have a smoke. The CV never has to show itself (for the most part) until the game is essentially over, so there is zero risk. Spotting is so big in this game, and tehre is zero punishment for aircraft......not to mention their unmitigatable dmg profile most of the time.
There is no unhealthy amount of bf 3/4. That’s actually a god tier game. It’s insulting to compare those 2 games to warships 😂
The problem is that the game decides in advance which team should win.
The last time I checked everyone's win percentages after the game, 11 players on the opposing team had a win percentage between 50-65%. There were 11 players in my team between 40-50%, and I was the only one above 50%. An accident, I think not. When the game does this several times in a row, it becomes frustrating. Then the next day, you might win 10 games in a row and games last less than 10 minutes.
Not at all the case.
While the match can be in effect decided in advance, the matchmaker is entirely blind. It basically assigns people to teams randomly.
What you are observing is an absence of a system to manage this _entirely._
Having two "AI" go through a draft of the 24 players to determine who's on what team would be a massive upgrade, even if poorly implemented.
It's true. According to shiptool 62% of the player population has less than a 51% win rate. If MM was completely random it would be impossible for anyone to constantly find themselves on a winning team made up predominantly of players with 51% or greater win rate. Yet we see streamers on twitch winning 15 out of 22 games. I on the other hand constantly find myself on the losing team, at one point I lost 17 out of 18 battles played in one day. It is rare that I win more games than I lose and it's identically the same for 62% of the entire player population. The majority of players lose more games than we win, and one can only conclude it is for the benefit of the minority 38% of the player population who constantly find themselves on the winning team. This phenomenon has nothing to do with skill, it's about money.
@@waltermelyon4300 you're assuming that A: that random distribution would create balanced lobbies, it absolutely doesn't. And B: that player skill has no effect on the outcome of a game, which is again, bullshit.
If you were to pull up the winrates of every player across every server and plot them, I would bet money we get a gaussian distribution, which is a sign of true randomness.
@@bohba13 Warships sells the impression of success just like any other business that targets the wealthy. People who spend $200,000.00 on membership to Oakmont Country Club don't all have a PGA card, they have very little skill but I'm sure they feel better about themselves knowing other wealthy successful people are also members. That's the way the world works and if you don't like it you don't have to accept the truth. Just realize if you play warships and win more games than you lose it's because WG is shafting other players on your behalf. In fact, 62% of the player base gets used this way to provide the minority 38% that sweet feeling of success.
@@waltermelyon4300 I don't get these conspiracies. Especially when poorly balanced lobbies as a result from the MM having very rudimentary lobby balancing (not even concerning itself with hybrids, let alone player skill) is a perfectly suitable explanation. Nott to mention there being absolutely no attempt to acknowledge observer biases let alone eliminate them.
Dogshit lobby balancing is perfectly capable of explaining it, especially as it is the explanation that requires the least amount of logical jumps to prove.
I remember that game where I was a T7 SHIRA capping and there was that T9 JB sitting at 10.5 kms from me. A bit too far for my torps, I put smoke and start to shoot at him. 48 HE with 0 damage (no pen, even when aiming the super structure) then I switched to AP and all bounced. It was depressing.
Matchmaking is the biggest problem to me. I don't know how it works but 60% of the time I'm bottom tiers while I'm up tiers maybe 10% of the time.
But more than this: nearly all the battles are one sided (yes I use wow-monitor) and it's hard to understand. Ok, WG doesn't use PR as it's not calculated by them. But then, if it's really random you should see something really random and not those majority of one sided battles.
I didn't made stats but I noticed the game really tries to punish me sometimes after one or two days of good battles (75% WR - Unicum PR). Suddenly I'm in a row of really crap team and whatever I do, I find myself with, for example, 5 ships shooting at me while my team is hidding, running away or vanished in 5 mns.
Some very bad day I then have a 33-40% WR (yes sir) with a good PR (as WR is taken as a large amount in the PR math) in a series of 15-20 battles. And I can't do anything about it.
Then I switch account, use the same boats in random again and suddenly I'm a god: every cruisers show me their broadside to citadel, I see torps passing by 3 kms too far while DDs throw themselves on mine, subs are pinging so much it's easy to hit them, then they flew in straight line with that oil leak track I just have to follow, etc...
Same player same day but with two very different experiences: one is a nightmare while the other shoot at sitting ducks.
So why ?
It would be interesting to compare two accounts with the same player: one free and one paying for premium pass. And then make stats when both reach T8 (Numer of bottom tiers game, how many unbalanced battles). Then we should have a very precise projection of how matchmaking is working.
I noticed that 9/10 games if i have any blue modifiers on the ship, I usually get a bad team and get stomped on.
Coincidence?
I suspect its by design
Agree with all your points. Now that we have tech tree hybrids and more to come, they should've consider it as a separate parameters. For the competitive side, I think they could expand ranked battles into multiple tiers per brackets, like having choice between T10 or T7.
Personal note: PR system are doing more harm than good for playerbase.
I'd agree that the MM gets too complex if it tries to navigate skill, radar presence and hull sub type, on top of everything else. But what if it rearranged the sides based on balancing out these potentially problematic characteristics after it has both teams set? It'll never get a perfect balance, but that's OK if it just gets closer to an even match. If you don't want to work that hard every game, there's always co-op.
I was in my Alabama one time. And I had a Yamato and 2 Iowas decide to target me for the first quarter of the match. Needless to say I got stomped.
PR is one problem but so is the ship composition.
You get a game with 4 Ohios, 2 Bourgones, a Cobert and 2 Stalingrads and one team will have 3 Ohios, both Bourgonesm the Cobert and the stalingrads, while the other team will have whatever.
That's not even an exageration. You see game where one team has multiple OP Steel/Research/Coal ships and the other team has very few or none.
I think skill based match making would be great, but WG has problems with simple arithmetic - like if you have 4 Ohios, putting 2 on each team makes sense.
more than 4 bbs usually devolves into a frustrating shitshow
MM has other soft parameters, here's one for sure: play a high AA ship and see how many CV matches you get. The easiest way to avoid CVs is by playing a full AA build captain with a high AA rating ship. That's not surprising since CVs are the original protected class before subs entered the chat. The other reason MM sucks at life is because the game cannot be balanced due to CVs and subs. What do I mean by this? Well, subs and CVs are playing a completely different game compared to surface ships, so trying to balance them against other classes is like trying to fit the square peg in a round hole. Oh, and if you read the MM patent, there are 12 tiers that the player is assigned by MM and the only explanation for that is to "provide a fun and challenging player experience." Make of that what you will.
I feel that the shit matchmaking is a way to moderate peoples economies. Ill reach a certain win rate, and suddenly go from dominating, to paired up with people who are literally more useless than bots. Every loss costs resources and it farms down your overall reserves. I add exceptionally terrible players to my blacklist, just to track them whenever I join a new game. Some games will have none of these players, others will have 3 or 4 stacked into that team, even if I am using the exact same boat at the exact same tier. Cant tell you how many times Ive been the #1 loser of a match. Frustrating and dumb. I have a video on my channel that showcases "when your allies are less useful than bots", you can see my frustration throughout the whole match with these potatoes.
Players like you ruin the game for others. You really believe you can maintain a win rate of any type relying on 11 strangers every match? Since "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link", you're setting yourself up for misery every time you play the game if you worry about your stats. Why do you bother to play the game at all?
@@xray86delta sure bud, imagine playing a game to win. Imagine expecting a tiered system to give players more skill the higher they go. Crazy right.
If you suck, stay at your level.
Carriers that die but can still attack with planes really gets under my skin, the only class that can still fight when the ship is dead. Other classes only do damage when dead if they fired their last shot before dying and then they have no control over the shot. The CV player has full control over his "dying" shots. Getting rid of subs would improve the game overnight.
In my opinion I'm mainly put off by playing more games because of the current meta. I love the German bb line and love the brawling builds, however every game I'm finding myself reversing for a minute straight so I'm out of sight and let our dd's hopefully spot enemy dd's so I can plan my route effectively without being sponged for damage within 30 seconds by bb's with 27km and above range and hit with a barrage of HE shells and an armada of torps. Even then, once I've made it to a point or a group of my team, I can't really do anything, ships are sitting back throwing shells down range, my secondaries are redundant and although the reload time on the Preussen is amazing the shell dispersion makes my poor 457mm or something main guns redundant. I know this is very specific and only goes for brawling bb's but I feel like they are just somewhat pointless now, with the new ship hybrids etc and the change from the brawling meta, sure I'll have an amazing game once in a blue moon but 9/10 times you get slaughtered before you get in secondary range. This can of course be linked to the performance of the team, ie lack of spotting from dd's / cover torps etc and this is definitely linked to matchmaking. So i feel like it all comes full circle but I just needed to rant about how useless my fav ship class is atm xd
I've given up playing tier 8 and 9 nine randoms. Getting double up tiered isn't worth it. Why put yourself at such a disadvantage?
This disadvantage depends on what ship you play, there are some tier 8 ships that can also dominate in a double uptier
Strange result of the poll, were the only ones that voted CV-players? NOTHING in the game is a bigger issue imo. ;)
ClydePlays did an excellent video about this. He used the matchmaking monitor to see if there was any correlation to how the match would come out.
being up-tiered by 2 you should be given a "boost". maybe your captain skills increased by 20%? or the range and sigma get a 20% increase (for a BB for example).
if there are T11 then maybe that goes to 30%.
In World of Tanks Blitz, people griped about the MM for years and when WG made it more even, involving more 60%+ WR players against each other, those players, CZcamsrs went insane because they couldn't seal club less skilled players anymore, damaging their precious win rates. WG changed it back to appease them. Personally, I could not care less other than the increased difficulty of getting daily clan missions done.
We only know about the MM to what WG tells us it does.....we have absolutely no idea what it is actually doing.
If concern about time-in-cue is the main problem with more nuanced parameters for the matchmaking, surely they could run computer simulations of systems that take into account radar, hybrids, etc., and --with millions of runs of the simulator -- see how much that affects the matchmaking time. If it only adds a few seconds then it is worth it.
So the point being, Wargamming actually using SBMM would likely improve the situation greatly, and be a first for most of the related games.. The game at the very least needs to manage gimmicks on each side better.
TO be honest it is a fun sometimes. with a friend we manage to play Double Sub. I56 and Gato just be pressing the battle button at the same time. and also with CVs . it depends on the hour but it can be make.
The match making needs to go back to +1/-1. That's 1st off. But 9 of 10 matches are blowouts. If it isn't a +3/+4 or less ship advantage... That's a blowout. It's not that it doesn't happen in other games. It's what is killing the game? Hands down... match making
+1-1 is not a solution. it will lead to some awful wait times. the +2-2 issues you have are related to your skill. Skill of the players is the biggest issue.
You have people in T10 ith 35% winrates. this is technically +1-2 mm. So there you go.
@jasper5878 I've been around since CBT. My win rate is 58-62%. Don't talk to me about skill level. I actually sold my loaded account about 4/5 years back because of the downfall of the game. Free to play and barely play because of the state of the game. Has nothing to do with skill level. Experience in the game is and has been terrible.
I'd rather wait 2-5 minutes for a game then play a 7-10 minute blowout match. Which now is 9 of 10 games.
You just went full Reeeeee. Never go full Reeee
I just want to have more equal tiered games.
Ive been grinding the russian cruiser line and just got the chapayev.
I have not had a single game in that ship where i am not the only or one of two tier VIII ships in a full tier X game. And that was in matchmaking where I was getting queuing for less than 5 seconds... its just very frustrating to get crushed because your ship litterally is inferiour to all the others.
Typically two or three Cv's and two sub on a side is what I was referring to or massive up tiering.
What I find frustrating, is playing lower tier once in a while (T7) and your div mate is playing T8........and you find yourself in a T10 battle. WG should use the lowest tier ship's tier for uptiering and not the highest.
I would consider the problem of x2 Sub and x2 CV per team as a "matchmaking" issue though
also once you hit tier 8 its constant uptiers to tier 10.
My 2 biggest problems in WoWs
It reminds me one of older "brawls", which was 12 vs 12 T8 cruisers. We were random guys put up against completely full 12 player division of single clan, which was nothing other than current King of the Sea winner. 😲
I knew that they very strong team so if I remember well I just☝️ pointed out in start of match in group chat that they are strong 💪.
The match was domination mode 3 central line zones, it was tough as hell, but every single of them was really cautious to play agressively and we won on points.
I am not sure if playing my M. Kutuzov helped anyway to the result, but I was definitely heavenly 😇🥰 satisfied when we won that match.
It was more rewarding than 10 thousand coal later that series.
Yeah, the chances are slim sometimes, but never give up.😉
The biggest factor is that team ships AND ship abilities are not balanced. What does this mean? Having the majority of radar being on one team has a big impact on a match. Same goes for the hybrid ships that have wings of aircraft, where as the other team may not have any at all; basically one team has 1-2 CV advantage and we know how powerful air craft can be. Imbalances in ships and availabilities affects most random battles and has for years, yet WG continues to refuse to do any real adjustments to bring the game into a more balanced state.
On BF3/4, some maps are far too linear, eg Locker, Metro, even Zhavod, so one team on the backfoot will eventually get stuck in their own spawn zone.
It was a great game but that has changed over time. From bad to worse. Op CVs, to special premiums like Belfast, to 2 lvl hier tier fights, to shotgun subs and spend money to get better chances of wining. Devs don't want to make the game better. They could for example add a selection for the player to have a battle of his choosing. I mean if someone wants to play a game without CVs or without Subs, or all ships of same tier, to have this selected before matchmaking is done. I don't care waiting longer to find a game if it provides me with what I opted for. Also in this era of AI advancement I find it hard to believe that they haven't found a way to ''match'' players of similar levels. They have all the statistics they need to implement a better way of matchmaking. They just dont care. Lets grab the players' money and call it a day.
I'd like ship perks to be factored in. Skill to be factored as a balance. Less steam rolls more good fights. Easy to say but how hard to program?
For me the problems are Carriers and submarines tied for first. Balance of ship who are being power crept as 2nd. WG and their BS as 3rd. Then Match Maker. Getting stuck in the looser bracket is a real thing. I've seen days when no matter the tier or ship you can't buy a win or drag your team to victory. Seeing 5 defeats is my clue that WoWs is not respecting my time and its time to log off for the day.
Also to correct one thing you said, I think we are on the Carrier Re-Re-Re-Re-Work.
Homing torpedoes that swim 90kts and for 12km. LIKE LOOOOOOL. Not even to mention their steering performance.
I think MM and then being a low level Tier ship and being stuck in a match where you are a T 8 ship and maybe one other person, and the rest are 9 and 10 ships, and it sucks extremely bad when it is mostly T 10 ships to fill out the rest of the players
Double up tier happens a lot and in some ships its punishing
Does anyone thing there’s a gambling algorithm included? I.e if your profile shows you as a spender you get really bad matching to keep you spending. If you are long term player or grinder you get easier matching to keep you playing? All the code and tech exists and used daily in the gambling apps…
Great story, this has been driving me mad for months. No matter how hard you grind or even pay you are 20/1 out gunned or tiered no matter what you do. Then worse if you tier up to 10 or * to have any kind of competitiveness say Annapolis, and then you are up against 2 or 3 satusmas or 5 * level players and your team just runs and hides or your guns don’t match anything like you see on YT or PT and it costs you 200k per game. 20shitbgames in a row you are 1.2m down per day. So go back to T7 or T8 and you are still matched against the same T10/* in a T8 playing, Baltimore like a destroyer because her guns are T* DD level in range. Or 8 premiums against a team of stock..?? Also all the stock ships recommended seem to be made of explodium these days, had Annapolis taken out in 1 /2 hits a few times last week from fuck knows what.
It’s ruining the experience, plus pisses off the good players, you should be able to limit the % of higher Tier ships in the match. I’ve played for 5years on all platforms and I am getting worse not better no matter the tier. The only good scoring games now are ranked because you have room to hide or move and some form of team play
Late one night I got into a game with 2 CVs, 3 subs, 4 DDs
It would be interesting to see what would happen if you then broke down the biggest complaints about matchmaking. I would guess the +2/-2 tier difference would be the biggest complaint. If you removed that then matchmaking would probably not be an issue.
I've said this before in diff places and to wargaming itself, matchmaking with ships can be improved but the bigger problem is the player skill matchmaking part of it. What they don't take into account is the skill a player has with a particular ship or even class that can be wildly different than his overall skill. I suck at dds, I am ok with cruisers and I am pretty good with bbs. so I have an overall skill level but lets say they use that skill level and I am in a newer dd with not a full specked out ship or cap with it and I am put into a match with wargaming thinking I will be effective against my opponents,. the other team might have the same player skill as me overall but they are in a class and maybe a certain ship where the skill level for them skyrockets for them in those ships now its even worse for my team having me with them and having enemies who are better than the overall skill MM thought they were going to be. IT NEEDS TO BE MATCHMAKING BASED ON SKILL FOR EACH CLASS OR EVEN SHIP.
lol, I was (might still be) listed as #5 in world in attack heli kills in BF3 for XBox....people hated me in that game, was glorious.
WoT also has similar issue. For a very long time, WNx (3rd party, not endorsed or supported by WG in any way) was the only metric. But few years ago WG introduced their own WTR rating. Which they promptly proceeded to not use in any meaningful way apart from measuring the PPs. Whenever this comes up in relation to matchmaker, the only counter argument is "reee, yOu WouLd NoT WaNt sKiLL bASeD maTcHmAKiNg!" Well, it has nothing to do with skill when matchmaker selects a group of players for the match and of the 4 tier 10 players, 2 have 25K+ games and 50+% WR and the other 2 have 2K games and 42% WR. And it is way beyond mental capacity of WoT devs to make the matchmaker put one of each type of player into opposing teams. Instead you get top tiers who die with 0 damage because they are so new to the game, they barely know how to move from the spawn point. Meanwhile, enemy top tiers just wreck the shop, not because they are super pro players, but because they have just enough experience to be effective.
Not enough players so you get rolled over if you are tier V-VII. So, it pushes you to play at least tier VIII and then everybody is camping. Game should also analyze if someone keeps shooting their team, sails in the islands, camps etc. so from that primordial mass they should be allowed to play with others. Good video as always.
The thing that bug's me is the fact that not everyone likes playing random battles, like me,i prefer to play against bots, for me it's just more fun because they don't care to camp behind Islands and so on, but you don't get the same amount of xp or silver for doing well, basically they are forcing people to play random battles and that to me is stupid,why put the co-op mode in the game then
The issue is that WoWs doesn't have lobby balancing. This (attempts) to make sure the teams are _relativly_ balanced.
You don't need SBMM to fix this issue. (And tbh, we have issues with hybrids not being counted as hybrids, and other imbalances between differing ships of the same class and teir)
In my opinion, matchmaking is not goofy enough. I really don't play for competition or whatever, I honestly don't care about that, so appart from the Actual ranked battles, I would Love to see more asymmetrical battles and not have to face the exact ships my team is using every single time. I like when team composition is completely different from one another, not only the ships themselves but also the classes, keeping only the tiers when possible.
I'm the type of guy that play with secondaries because it's fun, even some non meta ships I sometimes use them in a full secondary setup just for the LOL. I also advance with my CVs as much as possible and do use Graf Zeppelin secondaries when possible, as well as using French DD at full speed 100% of the time, and I rush with Yamato instead of trying to snipe like almost everybody, and I gotta say, I do have A Lot of fun. I really don't get frustrated when my dumb ideas don't work, it's just how the game is, but when it works, it's a big laugh.
To me the biggest problem is not matchmaking, even though as I said I wanted it to be more diverse in random modes, but I think the biggest issue is grind and not making it possible to obtain older iconic ships like Georgia, Enterprise and Puerto Rico for exemple. I don't like gatekeeping at all, and those ships are already freaking old, and wargambling just Don't give us a way to buy them again, only in those gambling stuff where we can't even chose which ship we want... Also Steel ships, I like the idea behind them, but the grind is even bigger for them. Getting one takes ages and I just don't have the patience for it, so even though I play the game since the Beta, I still don't have a steel ship, and probably will never get one because to me stell is just coal, so I get the coal ships instead of saving for ages for a single ship, so we need more ways to get stell without having to regrind the game. Once I unlock something, I don't want to give it back, that's a dumb concept to me.
My problem is that i love playing at t8. Often on the eu servers im the only t8 on my team with 1 or 2 t9 and the rest is t10. I can manage but im forced to HE spam most games. It has become so rare to be top or mid tier at t8 that i usualy just go to operations just to play for fun.
Cool story, but I don't buy it. I have had at least 15 losses in a row where my team is totally stomped with zero losses to the other side. This bucket doesn't hold water.
I’m in a horrible loosing streak can’t win at all then I’ll go on a win streak
So do you think the game is intentionally doing that?
@sealordmountbatten MM is by its very design rigged. It's designed to keep the majority of players right around the 48-50% mark. Of course, there is always the minority that will go above 50 and those that are below 48. You guys can say it doesn't take skill level into account, but that's BS. You can't tell me that the countless times I've been stuck with a team with an average of 48-49% players and the other has been 4-5 people above 55% that aren't in a division, and almost all of the rest being about 50.
Pics or it didnt happen.
@@sealordmountbattenI keep track of my wins and losses, and most of the time I get a win followed by a loss, but sometimes I get three wins in a row followed by two or three losses. I have definitely noticed a pattern, so to keep my WR above 55, I usually enjoy a couple ggs before quitting when I notice a pattern. Some days I win more, others I lose more, and sometimes I even out. It's kind of like Day Trading to me.
Match Making being a issue is closely tied with the 2nd in line .. the ship balance .. can anyone safely say a Super Cruiser of Tier so and so is the same as a CL of the same tier , but what do you know , the game think so .. and not to speak of the fact that many ships never ever got re balanced as the game develop , Shima's stupid 20KM torp is the joke of the time even when it got nerfed in 0.5.xx and now its even more so .. when 12KM torp force a DD that rely on stealth to go into 12KM Radar range .. the same can be said toward many BB, Cruisers and DD , and even some CV
the other aspect is the utility part , how often you see a team with 3 Radar ship when the enemy team had none , or all the DD on one team had no smoke when the other team had all of them equipped with smoke , even worse , a non CV game but a team got hybrid BB / Cruisers and the other do not .. the arguments goes on and on
offensive and defensive capacity is not ever tallied .. especially in mid tier .. double CV and double SS is so prevalent that ASW capacity and AA are very very much needed but then the game never care to balance matched in such cases
And as far as personal skill as a concern, the problem is how do you measure personal skill level .. there is just not a fair and just system that can quantify personal skill and especially after the fact that the game allow a lot of selfish and non-teamplay but reward the play with more EXp and credit ( yeah back lane farming , guess what , help the team minimal but end up top of the scoring , not uncommon at all ) , before there is a way to measure personal skill better there is a way to penalize those who do not fight and reward those who do
I'm sorry if it sounds a bit harsh, I don't mean it that way but I think you failed the point. Looking at PR isn't even the point. Loook at just WinRate and AvgDmg which is data that WG has and creates already. I don't see a real reason to not take this into account to just get a little bit of balancing in RandomBattle (and Ranked) teams. I don't get the argument that someone might intentionally play bad to keep his stats low. Why would they? Might happen in other games but doesn't make any sense to me for World of Warships. Playing with a mixed team is still better than playing with a mostly bad team as it often happens in the current "randomization". Then I'm not sure if you have any good sources or just the wiki on the fact that Only Tier and Shiptype are taken into account right now. I'm quite sure it's more: I only have 3k battles on my account but I doubt this is a real random procedure. I think you are making a ton of excuses for WG here which I think isn't needed. There's just tons of options WG could do but they seemingly don't care. That's the ugly truth. Alone look at the fact of the 3-Tier-Battles. I mean why create 11 tiers if you don't have the player base to fill your battles without mixing them together. Can we talk of the fun you are having with an average Tier 6 ship in a Tier 8 matchmaker? Or with your Tier 8 cruiser in a Tier 10 battle? Often emphasized by the fact that you and maybe one other ship are the only Tier 8s with only Tier 10s on the rest?
All I can guess is that the frustration that all brings (including CVs and Subs just to underline that this is not the only big issue) is just part of the Psychological game that needs to be played to keep it interesting for everyone - even the best players). Seeing current participation trends this is worrysome and I hope they find a way to improve on whatever needs be to grow the overall player base. I'm sure there solution will be adding more premium ships ;-)
yes people should be grateful that there is no SBMM in this game, ship balance is worse
I mostly chose Matchmaking, because for me that includes the existence of Subs and CVs... I'd seriously consider paying 50% extra for premium time, for a guarantee to never see subs or CVs in my game.
Even in Co-Op when I'm trying out a new T9, to get a feel for her, I'll see 3 SS tier ships, a sub AND a CV and they're all bots too
Would be great if you are top 3 exp earned for your team it doesnt give you the loss modifier to your credits and exp. You did your part. You should not be penalized for your teammates not performing.
had a gane with 6x T9, 1x T10, and 5x T11. That made the weaknesses of my azuma very very clear
MM is never going to have double up tiering fixed. I run into the issue eight out of ten times on the average. Except when playing tier nine up I'd like to play my lower tier ships knowing I can actually damage enemy ships but it just doesn't happen. Double up tiering kills the game for me. Curious about what double up tiering "fix" you referred to because I sure don't see it.
Random skill level is fine compared to the +2 uptiering. T8 and T9 are really difficult to enjoy due to that. A T9 vs. superships is not a balanced game in my book (sure there are some exceptions, but in general). WG support told me MM is allowed to uptier 45% of a player´s games, that's almost half...
For me I think the game was a lot better for everybody with matches without hybrid ships I think the Matchmaker settings need to be change where you can opt out of using hybrid ships and go back to the old school way of battles
My personal list of biggest problem with the game would be:
1. The several years long wait for WG to fix the island aiming bug.
2. Cost.
3. Flooding the market with gimmicks
4. Matchmaking
5. Lack of any real long term operations development.
6. Current KOTS, and how WG swindled their way into controlling it.
7. Their word means nothing.
Clyde Plays Live has a video using his own data which suggests a majority of the matches are really decided before they even start CZcams wildly uneven matchmaking. Wargaming seems to have zero interest in trying to balance that somewhat, so we should all get used to those rage-inducing five loss in a row mornings.
Ah... metro.... those where the good old days...
I kinda enjoy being uptierd. A lone T5 Kongo in a field of T7 and I float out with 4 sinks and I didn’t sink feels like an accomplishment
we're talking about pvp not coop chief
While it's not easy, sometimes some of the best games are when you're uptiered. Plus you get extra rewards for being bottom tier. Always feels good when you outscore a bunch of higher tier ships too
Why not just make it impossible for mods to check on other players stats??? Sometimes players already give up when they look at the mods and see the odds.....
There is a difficulty with skill based matchmaking which should be kept in mind here. An individual player's skill level varies according to what type of ship they are playing. So if skill based matchmaking was introduced WG would have to assign each player a skill level based on how you play in that ship type. Otherwise it would just introduce another potentially misleading statistic into the whole process. For example: you have a player who plays mostly BBs and heavy cruisers and has good ability with those types, so gets reasonable level skill rating. Chooses to enter a battle in a DD, which they are relatively inexperienced in. Result: they play much worse than their 'skill level' and team does badly because the battle was 'balanced' according to the skill based matchmaking.
Sadly, the reality of it is that the game is too complex, with all the ship type variants, to have any 'balancing' which wouldn't just lead to more trouble.
Using Wows Monitor I can predict with over 90 per cent accuracy which games will be over in a rout. Skills matter. Coop games match ship tiers and types but humans win 98+ of those games because it is the skill that matters. If I start a game and see 6 unicums on the opposing team I know the game will not last 10 minutes. I had a game yesterday that was over in 5:25. WG needs to use account win rate and to a lesser degree PR ratings to balance the teams. No question.
Over the last seven days my PR is 2206 and my win rate is … 37.93%. I‘m almost always first on my team despite being bottom tier most of the time (mainly play T8 and 9), sometimes with huge XP gaps to the rest, often players with single or double digit XP numbers at the bottom. Something is seriously broken, it wasn‘t always like this.
Magic the Gathering arena has a similar problem with some of their play queues. They rely on minnows (bad F2P players) to feed the sharks/whales. They have copped to this in public.
I voted matchmaking. But its just because double uptiers, not so much skill level. It's what frustrates me the most when I play.
How about a new map .Say maybe 5 more new maps
SeaLord, Fellow Subs - Happy Saturday! I cast my vote for "Ship Balance". It's great that WG introduces new ships w/ a variety of 'gimmicks'...but the older, tech-line ships should receive some buffs to keep pace. IMO. This year, we have seen signs of WG's readiness to do just this: adding sub surveillance to IJN cruisers, adding air ASW , or expanding range, to a number of ships...all are welcome. Each countries' 'grind' should have its own 'flavor' (strengths/weaknesses) and players can select those that they enjoy most. As new ships (lines) are introduced it would be nice to see the older ships receive some of the newer gimmicks. Have a great weekend!
Interesting that Hunt: Showdown has the exact same major problem, but not quite the same way.
There, the game has skill based matchmaking but its incredibly easily abused. On any given play day, it seems that every other game you'll run into a team of high-skill players that have nuked their stats down to play in low tier MM. And Crytek's solution to "fix" this so far has just beem to ignore it and make vague platitudes.
Then, in the runup to the engine rework later this year, they make a SIGNIFICANT change to a perk that is the primary engine of this, and the community is up-in-arms bc the perk becomes almost entirely useless for normal play.
It really feels like a damned if you do, damned if you dont sort of thing.
I’m sure Match making is horrible and needs to change. I’ve been a victim of the bad worthless teams too. I’m sure I’ve been part of the bad worthless spots on the team as well. However I quit playing the game because of Subs.
I personally think blowouts happening when people buying ships not getting. I`ve seen player level in other games so if you a low level player you cant buy high level weapons (in this case ships, yes money is everything buy you can sell t6 ships for doubs too). Unfortunately i`ve seen players mostly on weekends that dont have 500 battles but he have the Bourgone, GK and other bit op ships and dont know how to play not the ship THE GAME (i`m talking about sniping with the GK) and they have no idea what to do, I forgive that in low tier matches but in a t10 match dont.
If the matchmaking is so random why somedays i`m constantly get uptiered but sometimes constatly top tier same goes with the win or loss but ok matchmaking can be backed up with learning and skill (Mogami in T10 lol) but my way biggest issue with game is the RNG which is around in many but here its disquasting: dispersion sometimes WTF, firechance after 35 hits with 18% firechance and no fire but sometimes i got 2 twice from the same guy. RNG should be balanced to have fun even if you lose. The RNG is the most frustrating thing in this game, i`m someone who plays online since 2005 started with World of Warcraft and playing this from 2017 but not played for a few years i got back when subs were introduced but i dont mind them (except they ping further than your planes go WTF again?) neither CVs.
Ships should only match into +1 -1 tier. For example a tier 8 would never see a tier 6 and 10 but would see tier 7 and 9. Subs shouldnt be so oppressive either...
The randomness of random battles… who would have thought? 😂 If MM matched on ratings, it would take much longer to create matches and there would need to be more bots to speed it up. No good for you or the game based on keeping your attention and making money. More matches = more profitable game. It’s that simple. If you want it to be less random play in a division or ranked.
WG's matchmaking is atrociously bad. Steamrolls are not fun on either side.
Most other games take player skill into account when balancing teams.
The mode is called "random battles" thus they are fully random, and by all means, it behaves randomly, we got clan wars and ranked for those who mind playing randoms.
@@WassabiJoe Random battles would be much better with skill-balanced teams. Steamrolls are not fun.
WG would answer bluntly. "Randoms are randoms player are matched with others for better or worse. If you want play with same skill players go play rankeds which now cover two tiers".
My two cents:
- three-tier-spread sucks
- the current CV tiers suck. Every single CV currently in the game should be put one tier higher, with the current super CV being simply being removed or downgraded to sidegrades of the current tier 10 ones.
- not taking divisions into account sucks
- divs of diffent tiers, unless a CV is involved, should be flat out impossible
I don't think this is the 'biggest' issue but I hate the long range meta. It's not fun. It's rather boring and sometimes it's annoying as hell, particularly when you're in a ship that lacks the range to respond.
A lot of that play style is due to changes to protect DDs. They changed how secondaries work so it's much harder to hit DDs with them. They changed rocket planes so you can't blap DDs with them, that was a good change. It's nice that DDs can live longer and be more effective but all the long range torps at high tier does keep most ships at bay. With less ways to deal with DDs it can lead to a stale game. I think they should bring the old secondary accuracy back. This gives some battleships a way to push DDs back, and change the play style of some matches.
I use Monitor, like most others. What i have noticed is that when theres a discrepancy in terms of W/R or PR for 1 team or the other, its often offset by the number of games the other team has played combined. MEANING....it seems they try to offset skill with teams with low PR but tons of experience. Thats why you see some Unicum with 6000 games and W/R in the 60%+ range offset with some player that has literally played 24,000 co-op matches. He cant fight worth a darn...but he's got experience. I think in WG eyes, thats fair. As a player...it often forces me to simply shut the game down and move on.
PR isn’t calculated by WG. It isn’t part of WoWs so there’s no way for them to even implement anything like that
@@sealordmountbatten Correct, but a high PR would typically reference a higher W/R player, regardless of whom created it, its a fixed measurement by whomever(s) programs it, so there will always be a direct correlation regardless of source. Its not a matter of PR, its a matter of W/R vs Experience. I tossed PR in because it is an accurate indicator of a better player. You dont see high PR players with 38% wr. Just sayin, theres a correlation imo.
Now can we talk about using Bot accounts as spy ships to see the other team the whole map ?
So I don't buy that mm is random. In any of the games I do with sub detection ships I on get a sub in less than 5percent of the time, otherwise it's 40 to 50 percent
The biggest issue with the game is that to many people play it for the wrong reasons. They are playing for stats, not for fun, not for trying to win the battle but for stats so they can go brag about being "gud" in discord, reddit and other platforms. Yes the matchmaking is a huge issue but the good players/clans know how to work around this with the help from, more experience, higher skilled commanders, unique upgrades, ect ect (for example you get a Benahm player who has a 21 skill commander with all the bells and whistles going up against some newish player who just got his shiny new t10 Hayate with its 10 skill commander and its not going to be close). The real reason 90% of the players (notice I said "players" not the real "good players") not wanting sbmm is because then they wont be able to farm the noobs and shitters for stat padding reasons. They need the mm to stay the same so they can still be "gud". Lord forbid they play someone close to their skill range because then they don't have the advantage and that scares them lol.
Matchmaker has been a problem since closed Beta.
I just want to buy my 2nd premium ship but the game store is broken and i did what the website told me too.
Guess they don't want my money?
As others have said, the real problem is +2-2 thing. Being bottom tier in something like a Colorado is just painful. As far as personal ratings, I don’t know what my number is and don’t care. When I started this game 7 years ago, I was terrible. I can’t go back and fix that so why worry about it? I’ve had punk ass players trying and shame me, even to the point of sending me private messages, but I have a way with words and these conversations all end with “well…go &@: yourself!!” And I never hear from them again lol
I use a tier 8, 60 - 70% of games I'm bottom tier. My record is 8 games in a row bottom tier in my atago with tier 10,I just rage quit after that. So the uptier change you mentioned is total B.S
Matchmaking is not a fixable problem