World of Warships- What The Hell?? They Listened!! (Big CV & Sub Changes)
Vložit
- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- Hey guys! Today we have some esciting changes coming to both CVs and Subs! Enjoy!
Article Link:worldofwarships.com/en/news/g...
Second channel: / @sealordirl
Patreon Link: / sealord
Have a replay? Send it here!: SealordMountbatten@gmail.com
Follow me on Twitch!: / sea_lord_mountbatten
Join the Discord here!: discordapp.com/invite/QA7G9pr
Apply for TSIOF here!: / discord
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio
Outro Music: Stranger Think- C418
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
2:23 CV Changes
10:33 Submarine Changes - Hry
Why don't they simply give surface ships a decent sonar consumable, like real ships have. No fiddling with torpedo damage and speeds.
Been saying that for a while, you can be in a dd pass right over a sub and not even know its there, total bs
@@TiberiusMaximus I want to agree with you, but after playing in a sub for a month at t8-10, i can tell you I sympathize greatly with sub players, and any bullshit interaction you may have is completely negated by the sheer cancer the sub player had to endure to be in that scenario in the first place.
@@user-gg7jx8yk8q couldn't agree more with you here.
enduring cancer of what ?@@user-gg7jx8yk8q
One of the public test sessions had it.
It made hunting subs something like hunting a bb with a cv - one sided and easy, subs only option was to shotgun or die.
I mean I'd like to see them nerfed, but if a dd gets the ability to spot a sub properly then the sub just becomes an objective to get out of the way.
Fires on carriers should NOT be automatically put out. The player should have to do it like ALL other classes of ships.
That would be a buff, as players could choose to not waste DC on a single fire...
Agreed. I miss how cvs could be more anti cv to actually help the team at the cost of damage. That and limited planes like it used to so when they are gone thats it. Also going back to the real time strat would be good as well. This is coming from a cv player mostly in coop but a dd in random and clan
@@Benjamin-xv9lepossible solution to the "buff" issue: halt plane replenishment timer while fire is ongoing. maybe also disallow launching planes while on fire.
@@clefsan Now that makes perfect sense. And I'm a big CV fan.
I faced a Lexington in brawls. I hadn't really put any thought into cvs being overpowered because i grinded up to the midway just to understand them and had little impact due to me using them as more of a utility role for spotting and forcing ships broadside for the team, till the Lexington straight up murdered a charging Massachusetts in the one on one. That was the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced, I've never been singled out because I usually div up and my wife plays US light cruisers so aa has never really been an issue, yeah no they are horrible to deal with
your Wife plays WOWs with you?! That is Awesome!
@@jackcrawford6078the luckiest man alive
i played a lot of 1v1s against cvs and as cvs after the rework to get a feel for their balancing.
i found that it depended solely on the skill level of the opponent. i had no issue killing the cv in any of the other classes as long as i wasnt matched against a unicum, same thing on the other side, killing the enemy before they can reach my cv depended heavily on the skill of my opponent no matter their class of choice.
you have probably faced a bad cv-player before where you didnt need to do anything and he still missed you somehow and on the other side a good cv-player that even with you maneuvering as hard as you can, still manages a bit of damage every time.
cv attacks are basically the same as torpedoes from a gamemechanic standpoint, when you see them you have a few seconds to dodge, sometimes you dodge em completely, sometimes you eat some damage.
@@jackcrawford6078 Mine does, too; given, not very often and only at lower tiers, primarily because of the CV rework.
That and neither of us can keep track of all the different ships in the game now, even with me watching videos daily.
Right anyone that actually grinded CV know theyre not OP and FLAK and AA hurt's any CV line that isn't USA and tanky. IJN has paper planes and a good 6+FLAK spotter is annoying and can ruin your planes if the enemy team knows how to combat CV. Some game it ezpz, but that no difference than a tier 10 being in a tier 8 game for any line. If youre a t8 CV in a t10 game you're useless beside spotting. As a CV player leveling up other lines I never get singled out by a CV also I don't play anything without FLAK.
I'm curious how the repeat attack mechanic for AA will affect Russian CV's....
It won't, Russian bias
Honestly, that's a pretty darn good question....
I dunno if this is a good fix or just a weird one, so a plane travelling over you can't see you, but your AA gunners are also struck blind and don't fire, and the only way to engage is with a DFAA consumable that has a limited number of charges and will be of questionable use.
well Planes can fly high enough for AA to not be in range. (given Planes can't attack in that mode either), through DFAA allowing to fire at them doesn't make sense either in that case
doesn't change DFAA is still of questionable use, it's biggest strength in old system still missing (drop accuracy reduction...)
@@arczer2519 yep, planes can fly outside FLAK range, though I don't think WWII planes could, witness the daylight bombing campaign over Germany. The thing is that the higher aircraft fly, the more they see, not less. I personally think this is just an ill advised attempt to do something other than minimap spotting.
@@BlackHearthguard If planes fly above cloud cover, they can't see as well as below the clouds. See the Battle of Midway. So the travelling mode makes some sense.
@@LoanwordEggcornNot only that (I know what I'm about to say is broken as fuck but), during the Marianas' Turkeyshoot, planes did have decent radar. This made the US dive from above the clouds onto a japanese plane formation and absolutely wreck them. So it doesn't really make sense for them to just become blind to everything under them
Imo, we should make them targetable with the sector firing AA, even if it's just the flak explosions and AA shells like the type 3 the japanese had and american double-issue guns
@@LoanwordEggcorn Yep, so put clouds in the game. They're obviously not scared of overcomplicating things 😋
They listen to people's wallets. Not people.
Facts
Yes... But that's like every company... Ever...
Was this something new for you?
@@rjald4910 With capitalism this is the feature, not a bug.
So…thats good? Like everytime WG doesnt do something, playerbase bitches; when WG does do something, the playerbase still bitches too.
Like call me a shill but at least they are trying to change it?
💯
Limit the number of subs and carriers to one of each in a game. No more games with 2 CV's and 3 subs per team.
meanwhile in a 5 dd game
3 subs per team is still a bit much isn't it? Not that I have ever seen 3 subs on one team.
yet again the main issue isn't 2cv or 2 sub games but having 4 DD per team + sub + cv matches, what are Cruisers and BB supposed to shoot if more than half the team (if the players play correctly) are always invisible?
@@Ilias_Goddess This. Subs and CVs can be annoying but the bane of my existence is DDs. Insanely fast, insanely good concealment, can pretty much stay invisible the entire match while launching torps at you and keep you detected so enemy BBs can just lob shots at you from across the map. Very frustrating to play against 4 -5 DDs in a match as a BB.
@@giannerino2350 Your not. You're suppose to be the damage pinata for them.
As a Venezia main... I approve of the sub changes.
As a non-sub player, I support nerfing subs, especially German subs.
HTF can a surface sub be slower than a submerged sub?
From Wiki, for the U-2501:
Surfaced:
15.6 knots (28.9 km/h; 18.0 mph) (diesel)
17.9 knots (33.2 km/h; 20.6 mph) (electric)
Submerged:
17.2 knots (31.9 km/h; 19.8 mph) (electric)
6.1 knots (11.3 km/h; 7.0 mph) (silent running motors)
I love playing subs and I like to send them back to harbour too.
Learn and improve your game and stop crying.
@@marcom2248 you are playing sub you have no right to talk
@@marcom2248 too much trolling man
sure pal, when you can drive around underwater at 45 knots passing under ships wo them even knowing it and fire torps with a 100% hit rate its time for a change. I told you enjoy while it lasts, all the bitching seems to be coming from you. Being critical isn't crying junior...relax@@marcom2248
As someone who plays all classes, what I found most annoying about playing cvs is your own team. Most are mindless bb mains who sit at the redline with one finger on the fire button and drinking a 6 pack spamming "i need intelligence data", and berating you for not being in 6 places at once. They have no clue how to even play the class. News Flash: flying around in circles spotting for the whole team trying to find dds and subs is not fun or fullfilling. When I play a cv I just want to blow stuff up.. These changes should be good for everyone.
BB mains are probably the most brain dead people in the entire community. They’re the ones who scream the loudest about how CVs and subs are the most overpowered ships in the game meanwhile they’re playing the Satsuma camping islands and spamming HE. At least CVs and subs actually require a brain to play and 90% of all players are bad at them. Also turns out that island camping BBs are the primary target for both classes because they’re so easy. There is no such thing as instant gratification from subs and CVs, And there will always be good and bad matches for both of them. Some matches I get a good two kills, others I’m so outclassed i can’t even keep up and am just there for spotting and watching my planes die horribly to AA.
Title: They listened!
Me: How is this gonna fuck us mid- to long term?
good question about the cv "harassing" the same ship, if it is only the same flight, URSS CV gonna be even more OP. just hope they won t slow down more of the UK torp XD ( Alliance)
now if they could make some new techline work, and a random mod where you DON T KNOW what the other team has until they are spotted
WG wants to discourage CVs focusing (Bullying: Persistent acts intended to make life unpleasant for another person) on one boat by making the enemy's AA guns more effective. So what is a CV to do when it is being chased and it needs to focus on that one boat? Or what about when it needs to focus on that one boat that is trying to take the base or a zone? CVs need to have the ability to focus on one boat for good reasons. It has long been known that if you go Lone Wolf, you risk becoming the focus of the Carrier. How often does a CV come out on top of the game? Most of the time they fall somewhere in the middle. I rarely play CVs because my favorite CVs are at tier 8 and its no fun going up against tier 10 boats. The real hatred comes when the CV is top tier, but what if the CV is bottom tier?
Its not like spotting ship worked that way in WW2.... High Flying planes looking for the wake of ships traveling a ocean
So all on CV team will sceam even more at cv.. Spot, spot- dont attack.. Idiot, spot.. Sounds fun
If they would just make sure the CV can only spot for itself and they give ships a better radar for subs that would be a lot easier to do than their over complicated solutions.
Rts should be back.. that was the real playstyle balance
i agree
Yes. We could deplane CVs back then, fighters weren't a consumable, you had a limited number of squadrons of them and you could have them chase bombers/attackers till one or the other was destroyed. You also sailed the ship and as an airboss _on the ship_ you could issue orders to the aircraft, sometimes they didn't follow orders, ie if FLAK was too powerful.
I am not keen on giving CVs back the power of an eldritch being
@@sealordmountbatten They should have found a way to make it harder to dev strike ships back in the RTS days, it's true, instead we get WOWP Mk 2.0. But at the end of the day, it was a more "realistic" or at least demonstrative way of sailing a carrier. Ngl, I was much better with the RTS ones than I am with WOWP CVs.
@@BlackHearthguard playing cv in RTS is God Tier level that even i having hard time on low cv tier because it hard to master and i'm agreed with @BlackHeartguard or Wargaming should make 2 option mode in setting in what kind of gameplay you want to play on cv
In terms of the subs and having enhanced anti-sub lines... not sure how DDs mains would feel, but this seems like what DDs are meant to be. Otherwise it should be limited to the light cruiser lines and the heavy cruisers should be out of this loop. To avoid confusing, heavy cruisers should get the ASW aircraft option, I just do not feel they should be the 'picket ships against subs'. Also I hope they address certain (mostly premium USN BBs) with very short legged ASW flights.
as a DD main I don't want to deal with subs I have other stuff i need to focus on , I'm happy for CAs to take over
Cv spotting as the hydrophone spoting or mini map location for the team would work.
For ASW just have torpedo spotting work for Subs and a indicater for where a sub is surfacing similar to the ping indicator.
When you talk about manually controlled guns on CVs, don't forget about Kaga's 200mm guns.
When they bring back the RTS carrier play I'll return and not a second before. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Excellent proposal and let’s see what changes are implemented!
I have played CV loads, and played AGAINST CV loads. I have never really felt they were 'overpowered' and have never had an issue playing against them as any ship class. Most people, frankly, are trash in CV.
The usefulness, spotting and damage output in CV is HIGHLY dependant on player skill and attention, unlike what most people think. In fact most of the people who really whine and cuss out the CV player in games usually have very few or no games in CV in their stats. I have checked often and seen a definite pattern there!
Most people are trash in all ships honestly. This isn’t just limited to CV and subs. There are trash BB players who camp islands and are the ones taking to the forums when they got killed by a sub because they’re the primary target of subs. There are DD players who gung ho straight into the enemy and die first thing. 90% of all sub players overextend and easily die to ASW. In reality carriers utterly dominated the battlefield and rendered battleships obsolete, most fleet structures are centered entirely around the carrier and every other ship’s primary purpose is to defend the carrier from enemy attacks. If WoW was a realistic game (which it never will be considering this is the game where you can play ships from around the world and from different time periods at times) then CVs would be a menace to the battlefield because they would launch several squadrons at once instead of one small squadron at a time. Remembering how the Battle of Midway was won by launching one small squadron of 8 planes at a time instead of… Y’know… LAUNCHING SEVERAL LARGE SQUADRONS IN WAVES LIKE AN ACTUAL CARRIER DOES. A real carrier’s planes would blot out the sun, all ships should be fighting in the shade under a rain of AP bombs.
Nah. CVS are annoying as fuck and 90% of the time just griefing
If you're trash in most classes, for the most part, you won't have a lot of battle impact. This is where CV's differ. It doesn't matter if you're trash in a CV, just the spotting that is achieved by a player metaphorically rolling their face over the keyboard is enough to create a large amount of battle impact. Impact such as spotting a capping DD or one that is flanking to get around behind the enemy, highlighting cruisers in early game before they can reach islands for cover and highlighting early what caps the opposition are heading to, can turn a game or least ruin a players game through no fault of their own. Bad CV players definitely have a far greater impact than other bad players, and sometimes a greater impact than good players.
@@mickpass1 To be honest I cant really agree. Having seen my fair share of bad CV players I find that they basically just go for damage and don't bother actually spotting specific areas, or dropping fighters for spotting or AA.
When I play CV I make it a point to tell my team at the start of the game to tell me if and where they need spotting or AA so I can help.
CV alpha damage can be disgustingly low depending on whether you are up-tiered or are facing good AA ships.
@@nozyspy4967 I take your point, but bad CV players will still spot, even if they don't mean to, making them more effective on the battlefield than should rightfully be.
I think that Wargaming should go back to the way the AA consumable used to work. When activated it reset the Airplanes aiming recticle as well as increasing your damage output. If you timed it correctly it made dodging Torps and Bombs slightly easier. the downside of doing so was that your AA was activated on the wrong side of the ship for max effectiveness. (The planes flew out of that sector.) That would go a long way in the rebalance for the suposed AA ships....
I think the torpedo changes for subs should be the other way around. No matter what you aren’t gonna survive 6 torpedoes at you from almost 2km
AA does well In asymmetric, where tiers below bots fly into flak...
I hope they increase the airstrike ASW range on some BBs. 5Km on the Massachusetts is just ridiculous and makes these ships a prime target for subs. I’ve been playing less lately as many matches are now 4 to 6 six sub games. It’s so bad that I used coal to grab a sub as it seemed WG was heading towards matches where CVs and subs were the majority in each match. It’s so encouraging to hear they are listening to us.
If CVs are no longer going to be able to focus fire on a single target, will all ships no longer be able to do that with their guns? What about rapid-fire ships like the Minotaur? Are such ships also going to be penalized by having the penetration and effectiveness of their shells reduced?
I'm a CV player from back in the day. I remember this game play. Travel mode was stealthily attacked and spot. I did this a lot, stealth kill other team's CV (using Dive & Torpedo bombers with or without fighters escorts)that when RTS was in the game. The attack mode was the result of RTS players abusing board wiping mode. As a result, they in increase AA ships then Nerf US CVs and ignore IJN CVs trying to do like they did to the M26 Pershing nerf to the ground on WOT and try to do on the Midway CV, but we put a stop to that. Bye the time they made this attack mode witch we currently on there was a heavy down turn for CV players and they get rid of odd tier CVs and promises to bring them back but never did and pulled the rug out under Graf Zeppelin that was need to be fix me and others on the Forums and there was a growing hated for CVs it force me & others to leave the game (I did have CC/CL and BB/BC that played with) and others got rid of there CVs. That was my old WG account. Now I restarted the new account, though Steam so got a long road to get back current ships back on a budget.
Sub speed at periscope depth should be the same as submerged depth.
I like that some cruiser will have Submarine Surveillance consumable, but i think dds should have them too. Maybe with like a shortened range or something.
player numbers must be dropping massively then, might be worth checking out the game in march
To be fair, WG are on record saying that CVs didn't fit the game, but for the last 7 and a have years have tried to make the game fit the CVs. At least they've decided to address the main problem with their first problem child. I am not sure if their sub changes will amount to a hill of beans tho.
Game is getting more popular recently, so not true what you are saying
@@ReDiR20So popular randoms on both sides half filled with bots!
Not really . Ive seen alot of adds in youtube. And i myself never thought i will like the game. 7months later im still here enjoying.
Just went back into the game a few months ago, I would say it is very good now due to being able to fight AI opponents only instead of people who play this game for a living while making there opposite team miserable.
The game now is better then when the game was under a year old with major issues.
Its more likely when using the same attack flight and not the use multiple attack runs with different squadrons. Think of it as a timer. The longer the planes stay within the aa zone, then the effectiveness of the attacked ships aa will increase overtime. But once planes leave zone then it sounds like the aa of the ship will then start to settled down to base aa effectiveness. I am just think from a game designer point of view. But they can always do it some other way. So that is my two cents.
I think what would be better for sub toro changes is in the tracking aspect the tracking would drop when comming into a certain distance of the target. Let’s say 4-6km or smth just for example. The torpedos will home in on the ship but then stop at like 5km giving the ship a chance to dodge them but the subs still get to have their tracking aspect to guide the toros toward the target.
Woohoo can’t wait to be screamed at by my team for not spotting when the carrier changes come around, can’t wait
I wonder if there’s a way they can make the sub’s periscopes visible when at periscope depth even when the sub isn’t spotted. Increases your situational awareness to spot and know where the sub is as well as possibly blind firing them. I can also see the AA working kind of like the secondary skill where the accuracy builds up over time, except the AA buildup doesn’t cool down. Also I still think hedgehogs would be a really cool addition.
Basically just hiding the player name and health is all it takes, too simple for WG to do
would be unfair and make it easy to cheat for people that mods their game to highlight periscopes and show alerts. If you are going to make something visible on client side without having intrusive anticheat, you either make it 100% visible or you don’t.
Other thing they could do is add a "Hull degauss" consumable.
This used to be used to stop magnetic mines and i might be mistaken, some forms of torp homing.
Use dcp to stop the ping from a sub was always, Always a janky method, even more so if you were under HE spam focus at t5he same time.
I like the more sub detection idea, especially if they took it a step further and made a function where destroyers moving at half speed or lower could track a sub within a radius maybe? Idea to be tested perhaps. But the single biggest thing is just to get asw aircraft to have reasonable ranges. I’m personally a lot less bothered by a sub who sneaks in close enough to shotgun me then I am by subs who stay at 10-12 km with sonar and I can’t even attempt to reply unless they are 8km or less
And you, Wargaming....I will be watching these developments of yours with great interest!
im watching in great horror
@@nanowarrior01 Well....I AM concerned about the needlessly complex "duo flight mode" and the high possibility of it being VERY abusable.... :S
i already feel like aa shred planes at least when i'm playing on lexington, i haven't had any good games since i went from ranger to lexington so far. also everyone says to go destroyers but they're already hard to find and a good one is impossible to hit already. i feel like spotting in itself is all i'm good for and placing down fighter planes on my allies that need it, and that game play rewards you with 0 to no points. this is just my experience so far.
Honestly I think that aircraft carriers, rather than having modes, should have altitude settings similar to subs. I propose three altitudes.
High altitude: Move at regular speed, cant engine boost to speed up or slow down, but staying at high altitude uses up engine boost slowly. No spotting at this altitude and only fighters / DAA can damage you there.
Cruising altitude: Full speed (as if engine boost) without using any engine boost. Much smaller spotting radius (25%), AA does 50% less damage. Cant use engine boost.
Attack altitude: The only altitude you can start attack runs in. Take full damage from AA, full spotting range, and can use engine boost.
Doing this, and making AA stronger (150%-200%) would make CVs harder to use at extreme levels, but still not super complicated for people learning. They still are effective, and would make it require more thinking / planning to do well. Also, because it uses sub keybinds / system for altitude (like depth), its not a radical or completely new system people would be unfamiliar with.
I got all researchable subs and U4501 plus Gato and experienced shotgunning only playing surface ship.
If not wrong, those guided torps are either low dmg already or you need go periscope level to be able use those higher dmg/pinged. Its very risky as you get splash damage, while torp feel not that fast to really delete ship.
I found myself more shotgunned by either banzai DD or even by any other ship lurking behind island.
The problem is subs not spotted within 2km as DDs are. Reducing their torpedo damage below this range is stupid and not much historical.
Nobody complains on Paolo Emilio, which, while using visible smoke, that ship is father of shotgunning😅.
Also bit worried about CV rework, bc BBs have base air detectability much beyond AA guns range.
Also many DDs don't have much long range AA capabilities (no flak) and spotting problem of them can be raised generally. You always find case, when CV spotting can instantly kill DD.
I would love to get inflammable boost to my BB, large cruiser over time, when gun boat DD or another HE spammer tortures mě to death. That would be AA boost solution kind.
Finally when I took already fire dmg before, most of flammable material is in ashes, right? Maybe even fuel.(joking)
Let's hope it will come out for everyone satisfaction, even sub and CV players.
Perhaps a redio location kind of skill that shows the direction of a sub if its in range or something? like a commander skill?
passive listening basically. that would solve a LOT of issues with the sub i think
wow... that chat. still very happy to be on the Asia server. nice and quiet there for the most part 😌
I want RTS CVs back, it so fun then compared to now
the only problem with the torpedo shotgunning solution is they have a whole combat line balanced around shotgunning (american subs), they even have a premium sub dedicated to it (Gato), there is only one line of subs who will be affected (american), because no one is getting close with other nations subs and shotgunning. they're pinging and shooting homing torps.
The carrier changes are something that may be needed but it sounds a little like they are gonna handcuff them pretty good
What I really want changed is that when a sub pings, you should see which way they are pointing. Sure you can see where the ping comes from but you have no idea if they are moving back, forwards, turning away, turning in, etc. With that you can end up wasting all your depth charges or find out the sub is already long gone.
Well, I firmly believe the original CV Rework was the same example of WG listening to the players and trying to meet all expectations at once. It will be seen if they listened to the right players this time or not.
Historically spotting was a major function of carriers every carrier battle in World War II happened because aircraft located the enemy force so they could be attacked. Every aircraft carrier had an entire squadron of aircraft dedicated to scouting As for subs the best fix is to reduce their speed to what they historically did. Around 10 knots submerged and 17-21 knot surfaced. Shotgunning torpedos was the tactic they used since against anything but merchant ships they were too slow to catch up if they missed
Most battleships had a small group of scout planes too. Maybe buff scout planes as well so that they could go very long distances before coming back and having a sort of autopilot for them to fly a certain distance and a certain pattern and then have them come back. Maybe they could also be completely immune to AA too as most enemies did not attack floatplanes in reality.
I feel like the making it more complicated than needed. Just lower the aircraft spotting range and implement the attacking same ship = more AA feature.
As someone who is relatively new to the game I play every class and enjoy all of them. I'm personally not super annoyed by carriers or subs after about 100 hours. The changes sound okay but I think it's a mistake to go too far from reality. Carriers are spotters in real life, it's a huge part of their role. Carriers also focus on a damaged enemy ship to have the largest impact. Carriers already struggle to do major damage on a ship on their own.
It seems like these changes affect the aspects of a carrier that make it a carrier. On the sub side concealment is literally the point of a submarine. If they ruin the subs concealment advantages they've just ruined subs imo. I love the cruisers, destroyers, and battleships but will get bored of the game if nothing else is viable.
Wargaming has already went far from reality with subs that outrun destroyers and superships with dispersion reducing active skills. That ship has sailed, partook in a tier 10 battle, got dev struck, and returned to port already.
HEY! You stop that. Logic not allowed!
But yeah in all reality, CV's are not op...people just suck. That being said, there should only be 1 per team. Subs (overall) only OP aspect is the lack of detection. The German subs are OP due to their 2x amount of loaders on Brit and US. Thus, German sub is meta...(why use the worse of the lines when you can use the op one) it's what people see &now "all subs are op". Classic failed mindset of if one is OP, all are.
@@PirateAndArmadaCo It's not that they are OP. It's that there is little counterplay to them. If a CV wants to harass the fuck out of there is basically nothing you do about it. They also passively spot stuff taking away a key role of destroyers and in general annoying the fuck out of the enemy team
As someone that played the game when there were no subs and CV's in the game, I can happily report that the game never got boring. It was more a game of chess using good positioning so as not to be dev-struck, using concealment effectively, watching the mini map to to predict where attacks and torps might come from, or sneaking torp attacks from unexpected angles and using islands to good effect, especially for BB's to repair. It wasn't perfect, but it was still great!
Enter the CV rework. Suddenly positioning meant nothing as a CV could attack from any angle and trying to dodge CV torps often put you on broadside to other ships. Concealment was effectively lost as a flight of planes could spot your whole fleet in the first minute or two of the game. Destroyers can not flank if they are spotted early, taking away that part of DD play and islands are no respite for ships as CV's can just fly around them and strike the ship. CV's took far more from the game than what they added. And don't get me started about subs that break the laws of physics just to be hammered into the game.
As for your point about CV spotting, yes it was their role but in actuality they weren't all that good at it. There are numerous cases in WW2 where planes flew past fleets of ships without seeing them due to visibility, weather conditions or just clouds, misidentified ships ad nauseam or just plain failed to report what hey had seen. In WoW's plane spotting is next to perfect and not only can planes fly through storms and cyclones it doesn't upset their spotting ability too much at all. They can identify the exact position of a ship/ships to all attackers and them dump fighters over said ship/ships to keep it spotted. That's why mini map spotting would be a good compromise for plane spotting but we'll see how these new changes pan out.
So in a traveling mode the attacking group flies over Yamato without noticing it, yeah, kinda realistic. The gameplay for CV will be basically pin a point on a map, take control to make a strike, and if the ship is no longer spotted then I guess go hit a wall with their head. They could just remove the CVs then, refunding all the costs for that premiums ofc.
Makes no sense what u just said . . . They use travel speed to go fast to a point, go into attack mode to attack and go back to travel mode to avoid getting his ass kicked . . . While in travel u cant spot but cant get shot at exept DEFAA, but why would u loose a yami after attacking it once ?? U still nknow where it is roughly so u can just go there in travel mode, switch to attack mode and attack again, but i like the idea of removing them, get those air rats out, no refund no rewards, these freaks dont deserve refunds
@@YogSothoth620 Someone spots a ship, say it's a Yama that shot from 16 km away. You fly there in travel mode. But by the time you arrive he is no longer shooting and no longer spotted. Probably he went a couple km away. Then... what happens next? You fly back? :D I mean this can quickly fall into a shitshow with some awkward mechanics and fixing the fix after fixing a fix.
they remove torpedoboat and islander's biggest threat, nice
@@tranquan9528 They could simple add minimap only spotting and so if a CV catches you it's between you and him, not the whole team. Now it's kinda sounds "let's break the legs to that CV because they can spot" instead of actually fixing the spotting.
Thanks!
My ideas for subs was, is, and will remain:
1. Hydro detects subs. Full stop. If in range, it detects them, irrespective of depth. Perhaps a detection penalty for subs in silent mode (more in point three).
2. Depth charge mechanics change. Subs can avoid them by altering depth. Attacking ships need to set depth, via a two or three factor setting. Same mechanic as wide or narrow spread torps to set it. Not too complicated and similar to real life.
3. Subs are too effective because decent/good players can remain undetected for long periods, which can make counter play excessively difficult. I'd suggest something similar to the travel/attack mode for planes. If subs are submerged and in silent mode, they are slow but cannot launch torps or use hydrophones, etc. But if they make abrupt depth changes with planes, run engines full, fire torps, or use sonar, it's like firing mains and extending detectability range. Use more, more your detection range is. Surface remains same as all ships, submerged makes your detection range bigger for active hydro.
I think a two factor setting would be better. It shouldn’t have to be too complicated and hard to set up when you often have one shot at hitting a submarine within only a few seconds.
If they just added a fuel range requirement to the planes so they couldn't just infinitely spot, then it would limit how long a squad was out flying around and fix this whole "when can they spot" issue by nerfing it with fuel. Then, it adds another gameplay element where CVs have to move to stay in range for strikes. Hell, even add in an element of which direction the planes came from alerting a sort of reverse azimuth of flight path once they appear close enough to a ship to be detected briefly. There are fewer stupid ways to dial in how they work and still make it fun and risky to play a CV.
I'm not a tech wiz so my suggestion may not be doable. That said, in "Operations Battle" Aegis, part of the requirements of the mission are to "save the commander of Schors" after it is sunk. I thought this would be interesting to apply this type of objective towards submarines when CV's of the same team are involved. For instance, if planes are shot down by the opposing team, the submarine on the same team as the attacking CV would have an opportunity to "save the pilots" of the planes shot down and be awarded credits/xp for successful rescues and perhaps even be some sort of benefit for the CV. (Like I said, not a tech wiz) This would be representative of the heroic rescues made by the WWII Pacific Fleet submarines martialed for allied attacks involving CV's and their attacking planes. And wow, some of the comments on this topic are excellent, i.e., surface ships and sonar. In an unrelated topic, how about the future involves supported landings by LCV's and ground targets, etc. Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback, and thanks for your videos, I've become an avid viewer.
it would be nice to see cloud cover in the game that obscures spotting either way, and also sun blinding AA gunners, but making AA better overall. then u would have planes in travel mode flying above clouds and can only spot something directly below it if there is no cloud, and if the AA was a true threat they would have to be more tactical with their attack runs using cloud, sun and island cover to approach etc
even if they fly in fight mode to spot things but also receive AA fire, it should also cost a heavy fuel penalty, where when traveling above saves the fuel as it does IRL. many ways to balance it, life already gives us possible solutions without needing to arcade things.
If spotted by aircraft only then: incoming ship to ship volleys dispersion should be doubled.
Make the AA mod that hardens your AA turrets increase your AA by 10% and make the AA signal flag be a straight 10% AA increase for both AA types so (with the other AA mods) you can choose to actually have strong AA via giving up other attributes. this won't help weak AA ships but will provide strong AA teammates. As a Pan Euro main and as one that prefers strong AA DDs I can't protect my teammates like I used to. AA needs to be able to be increased by 10%+ and this would make it so that you have to give up something (select mods) to get it.
Provide all ships that have hydro with guaranteed 6k submarine "directional acquisition" while the hydro is on (and should be shown to all on the mini map) until the guaranteed spotting range (2k) is acquired. Specialized DDs (hydro DDs) should be strong submarine hunters and thereby very feared by sub players. Lightning is currently the best Sub hunter DD in the game BTW.
Remove ping guided torps! That's huge and makes the above = Problem solved!
The Dreaded Robert!
Anyone know how to counter Ise? I found myself with Queen Elizabeth, 1v1, and Ise just sailed in the opposite direction to me and just kept torpedo bombing me. Is it just stock QE is too slow for a balanced fight? Or was I doing something else wrong?
They should also have the subs periscope get detected as a trail like it would be in real life. Not just the "ping" like it is now. Now you see "something" but don't really a have a clue where the sub is going or where it's actually at when you "detected" the periscope.
It would make the sub more vulnerable to detection and also reduce shotgunning because the periscope trail would give them away.
Why did they not just give subs their own game mode, "as War Thunder did" would then be more realistic and historically correct, as I find the spawn points on the maps "with a slow BB" too far away from the objectives now.
Leone and Okhotnik with ASW 👍🏼
Ppl are never satisfied but u are still here playing the game we all love 😄
If it don't make sense for a BB to lose damage when attacking the same target, then it don't make sense for a CV. The rest sounds okay.
Yes it does. Because its a game, and that BB can be shot back at, the carrier at the back corner of the map is immune to damage.
@@ekscalybur Oldest and dumbest excuse to nerf CVs. I don't got a problem with balance adjustments, but it still should make some sense even in a game.
@@quor2243 you are expecting realism in a game where subs can outrun destroyers while underwater and where the Satsuma has a magical dispersion decreasing special ability.
@@404found00 Not realism, it's a cheesy arcade game, just some sense. Alpha damage stays the same regardless of the ship or plane you're firing from, that makes sense. Damage boosters are fine, rapid fire, decreasing dispersion, speed boosts, AA boosts, all of it just fine. No reason to put in some over complicated damage reduction for just one ship type, especially if there is going to be no obvious indicator what ships will receive reduced damage and for how long. What about 1 v 1 situations, or key situations at the end of the match and you're relying on the CV to finish off a ship that it's already attacked a bunch of times? It may sorta work when there are still 9+ ships on the map, but it's just STUPID when it counts.
@@quor2243 Carriers have exactly zero dumb reasons to nerf them. Every single imaginable reason is legitimate. Because they are cancer.
You know its true, carrier main.
All it took was the years of feedback and the Russian version to blow them out the water for wg to FINALLY start listening to our wallets
So if a cv flys its planes to a seemingly empty spot and starts a attack run, will it then spot any ships under it couldnt see a second prior?
I really enjoy the way CV's planes are played now vs the old way of the map view. But I understand all too well of how they'll focus on one ship until they have completely destroyed it. I've been shotgunned by a sub a few times, but was able to make them regret it for the most part. I would love to see the number of them limited in a match though. I do like the idea of CV planes being able to travel at max speed in travel mode with no spotting or AA damage, but that's going to encourage CV's to just stay hidden instead of pushing closer.
I hope they make it so you can't switch from Travel to Combat and Back, imagine they use combat to spot ships, switch to travel to avoid damage to position for ideal drop angle, switch back to combat to drop... should be travel, combat, return to carrier, no back and forth.
Torps should fail if dropped from to high, I seem to have many CV's dumping a full amount of torps from over an island from WAY up and what hits the water still makes its way towards you, there should be a very limited height for torps to be dropped successfully from.
I want the submarines for the game councils!
They still need to stop using the damage control consumable to break an acoustic "ping" lock, and reduce the speed of submarines while they're submerged. Some destroyers can't keep up with them!
As a sub player, this isnt all that bad to me. I main the 4501 so I dont shotgun (often) anyway. Ships having SS might be a headache tho.
Maybe they should have it so that ships can only search for subs after a long period of time like how subs have to wait a while before searching for each other.
Honestly, have not been more keen for an update in years. Seems over complicated, but at least it is the right direction.
Sub shotgunning is a problem, but the more common battleship dev striking cruisers is not. Funny how because of something that happens successfully once every 10 battles is a problem but the thing that happens every other battle is not. It's a nice thought on Dynamic torpedo speed, except for the fact when a submarine is being chased by a cruiser or Destroyer and your torpedoes can't do enough damage to save yourself
So basically they're taking away the only advantage that subs have.
Wait, done we have HYDRO on ships, was not that involved to see atuff belove sea level..
Why can't they make spotting planes similar to ww2.
Fly out in a straight line to a tartget. Fly perpendicular to the target. Then return to the cv.
Make them operate like any other planes.
Or even make it possible to control where the spotting plane goes. Like taking control of it on the map and directing it to go in a straight line before going back. Also make it immune to AA. Most countries did not attack spotter aircraft.
People will always complain about classes they cant/wont play
It ruined eternal crusade, the game never finished due to constant changes to the game play.
It was interesting that based on there analysis players with near exactly the same weapons would perform completely different in how good/bad the classes were due to one faction having a bunch of bad players who could be farmed.
Similar here in BBs only players complain that torps shouldn't exist.
Holy hell
All I'm getting from this is CV's now have even bigger invulnerability periods for their planes meaning AA is even less effective than it currently is, and DDs are even worse at dealing with subs because now subs can also out turn them while throwing torps that home better against them with one ping than they do against double pinged BBs. The you have DDs like YY where the Depth Charges only have a 0.25 KM effective Blast Radius and do so little damage, you need 15-20 Direct hits to kill one sub, which in practice means over 30 hits mixed between direct and splash hits. Just buff AA and do mini-map only spotting for CVs, and give all DDs Sub Surveillance and means to actually do more than 150 damage a hit to subs reliably. It'd be simpler and a lot more effective than what they're proposing.
It would be really helpful when discussing future changes to note on the title whether it’s the Russian server or international server :) just a small suggestion!
This just sounds like more nerfs to CVs again. Im so glad I stopping playing after the initial major gameplay change going from being able to actually coordinate multiple squadrons to just a single squadron at one time and not be able to control the ship either while away from the ship! 😡
Bring back the old CV style mechanics. I loved it and it was legit fun. And CVs felt a lot less dangerous.
I see a lot of problems in this proposed stuf. What if the CV is (on of) the last remaining ships. The CV would only have a few opponents so harshers AA and he cannot spot for himself.
Why does this sound why more complicated then it needs to be. Like you said 2D minimap spotting would be SO MUCH SIMIPLER! At least CVs gain the ability to use their Secondary Batteries manually, thats Nice. Maybe you can actually defend yourself now from those cheeky DDs.
THE SUB CHANGES THOUGH, oh baby! The italians an Germans finally get their Air borne charges, and "some cruiser branches will receive the sub surveillance consumable" FINALLY! I bet it will go in the same slot as Hydro though. "Dynamic torpedo speed and damage" Ok..... that would solve the Shotgunning problem i guess.
I think the solution to shotgunning is to increase their detection range encouraging subs to launch their attacks at longer rangers
They better buff the hell out of I-56
Bring in the I-400 just to piss everyone off. Everyone hates subs and CVs, why not put them into one ship where you can do both? Or even bring in the Sarcouf.
its actually the opposite when it comes to spotting from the air the higher you go the more you can see, seeing a ship in the ocean is easy, its the only white dot making a huge wake on the water, thats why planes flew high to spot. i dont mind the idea but to say the planes cant spot is kinda dumb maybe make the radius smaller but its not like youd be blind
Why they over complicate things as opposed to simply moving CV spotting to minimap only is beyond me. If they really wanted to make it slightly more complicated, have CV spotting limited to minimap only unless a friendly surface ship is within 10km of the plane spotted enemy ship or something like that.
i still miss dropping torpedoes in a v formation :)
Subs should only be able to do 1/2 speed at PD like in real life so they don't bend their periscope
Sounds like some decent changes to attempt to bring more balance, but still keep the game interesting.
All this is well and good but there is a simple problem already in the game that is being overlooked by most players. That problem is ...overpenetration of a sub. Recently I was trying to get out of trouble with a sub shotgunning me and really didn't have a chance to watch the hit reports when firing at it with my cruiser. However, my jaw dropped when I saw that the bot sub had not 1 but 2, over penetrate shots hit it. When subs were first introduced, someone made a comment that impressed me "subs are already sunk, you just have to put a hole in them." That sub (with 2 over penetrating shots) was not on a fast trip to a permanent berth on the bottom but was still fighting. If there is this error among bots, how many times has it happened in PVP play? My 2 cents worth.
Praise the Omnissiah
Minor improvements. Subs have no place in the game, so to keep them there they have to add other fantasy items to balance (?) it. CA's do NOT carry flights of planes for ASW. and as currently DD's are the WORST ASW platform when they should be the best.
subs suck the most
What about hybrid ships, does the CV rework effect them as well
Hybrid ships should be removed entirely. People say the same about CVs but I think hybrid ships just suck. There’s a reason why they were never actually made. When you combine a battleship with an aircraft carrier you’re left with the worst of both worlds; you’re left with an aircraft carrier that can’t launch an effective squadron, and a battleship that can’t take a hit and dish them out.
Historically subs preyed on shipping more than warships, with some exceptions, Indianapolis and few others. So it never took on cruisers and large surface ships too often. CV'S on the other hand, are completely dominant against any surface ships, BB's literally had no chance against a carrier.
LOL, this sucks for me since I have only CV missions left on Yamato and Halsey campaigns. Once those are done I will have every Campaign done "With Honors". Looks like those last few unfinished tasks are going to mock me for a long long time to come.
(Before you tell me I can finish the campaign by completing tasks over and over- thanks, but actually read the comment.)
When 100% of torps hit your ship on a regular basis its time for a change, I was sick of getting hit w every single bloody torpedo fired from subs AND CVs. Its ridiculous. It had to change. Well why don't you just swerve? Yea ok, when torps are put into the water at 100 yards from your bloody ship its pretty hard to avoid them.
The laws of physics are what we say they are
i cant play CV's the controls are so bad it just does not click with me
The sub's ping effect distance needs to be consistent.
why do subs get sonar torps, and no other ships or planes do? doesnt seem very fair.