22LR Precision Shooters Must Watch // Eliminate Cold Bore For Pennies
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- Were testing cold bore and how to eliminate it.
The test mule details:
Vudoo 360
XLR Envy Pro Chassis
Krieger 1.250" 24" Barrel
MCR Custom work
Bix n Andy Tacsport Pro Single stage (6 oz)
Element Theos 6-36
Eley Match Ammunition
L3I 700 Elite Magazines
FX True Ballistics Chronograph - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Gents this, as stated in the video, is not a definitive answer to why this happens. Its all just a theory.
The bigger part of this is that it hopefully helps someone whos struggling with cold bore already.
I encourage everyone to give it a shot and report back here.
It has worked for me and several others but thats not a guarantee it would work for you, id be interested in hearing if it did or didnt help you here in the comments!
"Everybody has straws"
Literally illegal in Kanistan...
Oh 🇨🇦 🤦♂️
@@wilfdarr im sure they have some sort of tube that resembles a straw lol
@@PursuitofAccuracy Ya, I think I found a fuel line that'll work. Still dumb that straws are illegal...
Great video man that’s insane how easily that works
Theirs many factors that cause cold bore. Up till now, 2K+ rifles built. It's primarily due to tight spots in a barrel. Hence why I have an air gauge tool. Not sure about the moisture, but I see cold bore even here in Arizona.
Great thing about this community is we can gather all data together and conclude a fix
Hey Kenny, been a fan for a long time . I’ve seen some of your vids where you demonstrate very little if any cold bore shifts so I know you got a great handle on how to “smith it out”. I’m not understanding how tight spots would change from the cold bore to subsequent shots . Thank you .
@Jeff-mv4yy moisture plays an effect. But in summary the lube solidifies between shots. Having a tight spot in a barrel creates a friction spot area in a barrel. While in consecutive shots, the lubricant on the ammo will help over come this friction coefficient, until the wax/lube solidifies again from a period of time.
It would be the same as you firing a spit wad in a new straw, then cink it and see how much more force it takes to shoot one out.
@@EagleEyeShooting Moisture in the air and bore is good (less/no cold bore shift)... dry bore and air is bad (pronounced cold bore shift). Heat can also play a factor ie leaving a barrel in the shade vs in the sun
Thank you Kenny .
Now we need to see Kenny run this same test in the dry AZ air 🤷🏼♂️
Dude this is the most important video I’ve watched this year!!! Wow - thanks so much brother 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Hey Josh, I use Eley Match, SK Standard Plus, and CCI Standard Target. All ammo dose the cold bore shot in my rifles. Have seen that cleaning the bore lessens the effect of the cold bore shot. I am going to try blowing my breath down the bore using a short piece of small diameter clear vinyl tube that is available from most hardware stores. As it's not going to do any harm, and well worth a try.
Hello again Josh, I have been out to my gun range a couple of times since seeing you show us the straw technique. I use a 10 inch piece of 3 millimeter clear vinyl tube, and only put the tube in as far as the chamber. (3mm is the internal hole size) I blow 1 breath into the chamber and down the bore of my .22 SAKO P94S just before I start shooting, and it works. No more Cold Bore Flyer. The first shot prints on target at the point of aim, and the same for the rest of the shots for that string. So, I can agree that this technique dose help eliminate a Cold Bore Flyer
That is really cool!! I’m looking forward to seeing the future tests! Great work,
A while back I had a hunch that its not the temperature but the atmospheric conditions in the barrel that cause the first flyer, thanks for confirming my suspicions, people didn't believe me cause I worded it poorly.
This may be the nugget of info I've been looking for to do better in the Rabbit Hole of 22 bench. Since I shoot a bimonthly bench match with ranges from 75-250, This will be a hard secret to keep if it works and besides I know a bunch of my friends that shoot it also are followers of your channel. Have a great New Years and keep the juice flowing.
Great video! I’ve seen the same thing when testing SK and Eley. About 30-40 fps cold bore. You can hear it down the line at a match too if you’re paying attention to other shooters. I’ve been noticing this for a while now. I’m going to try out these tips 👍🏻
Wow, that’s an awesome find! Glad to know what actually causes that cold bore shot difference.
Josh great videos, enjoy every single one, very informative and well done, thanks for your hard work.
I tried the straw trick on my FX Impact M3 22 cal. for 3 days, it worked, cold bore shift disappeared.
I'm adding a straw to my shooting tools from now on.
Great video. I learn something every time I watch your videos. Keep it up!!
That’s exactly what I was thinking.. that the more oily type lubes are thinner and when cooled off won’t be as think in turn causing less back pressure 🤷🏻♂️ I’m excited to see the test results but it definitely makes sense that eley an others with thicker wax type when cooled will be thicker. Thanks for the info great content as always!!
Very interesting Josh, seems like your on to it. I never would have thought this was the cause . The results don’t lie. Thanks mate
Thanks Mark
thanks Josh, again great informative video, thank's for sharing the insight to cold bore, i've often wondered what makes this issue...my Ruger American in 22lr suffers from cold bore, second and subsequent shots are all clover leaf groupings on POA...quite annoying in hunting situations, i just make sure a fouling round is fired first soon before going hunting, where POI is so so important...
About 25 years ago the long range blackpowder cartridge rifle shooters in Canada found that a puff of breath through a rubber tube into the chamber after each shot improved accuracy. They were shooting duplex black over smokeless loads in 45/90s and 45/100s. In alternating shots there was just enough time to reflexively put that step in the firing point routine while the other shooter got off his shot.
Another great vid. Happy New Year mate.
Josh that’s awesome man super cool you shared this now I have to try it out. Thanks and another great video.
Thanks brother, appreciate ya!
Awesome Video KYL Killa!! I have witnessed this work very well.
Finally the condom i been carrying for years for when I get lucky got used. Thank you
Hahahaha
I really enjoy your videos. I have learned a lot. Thanks
Great info. I’ll be checking this out the next time at the range.
I usually just run a dry bore mop/swab down the bbl to clean things out. I do let the bbl cool some before the next group/chrono run. Works well for me but my firearms are nowhere near the league yours are in. Thanks for all your informative videos.
Great idea from the guy that told you this. I’ll try it for myself and see.
Thx for the information. got supersonic bang on every first shot and never knew why. Greetings from germany
Love me some scientific method! Thanks for moving the knowledge limit forward on this issue.
Very interesting. I'll try the "blowing trick" visiting next time the range. Thanks for the video.
Amazing, mystery solved i think! cant wait for the follow up video. cheers...
Love the video man, great work!
And this video is exactly why I follow you! Very cool!
Thanks brother
this is great info. my factory cz457 has a heck of a cold bore shift using eley ammo. will have to try this hack at the next match.
This is awesome! Thank you for sharing.
Super interesting. Time to pull out the chrono and do some testing on my end!
I've read this theory in forums, but never saw this vid. A couple things I note - 1) for your straw, maybe cut the 'short' end a bit so it fits in the chamber area easily. That would let you be 5-6 inches farther away from the rifle - not look as 'intent'. 2) Can you test this effect with just 'dry air' like with a fan and hose? to eliminate the moisture for comparison.
I haven't watched Part 2 yet so maybe these have been addressed ?
Thanks Josh I will try to keep that info in my old mind at my next match.
Who'da thunk it! Excellent info Josh! Appreciate you!👍
Thanks Josh and super easy solution
I was always under the impression it was caused by a carbon ring. And once you fired that first shot, the carbon ring warmed up and kind of normalized. Learn something new every day!
That was pretty cool. Good info
Several years ago Bill Calfee wrote about moisture in the barrel and how it relates to cold bore. I'm pretty sure the article's in his book The Art of Rimfire Accuracy
Been meaning to read that, just never have the time
Great video! Man I’m glad there are nerds like you doing this stuff so nerds like me can learn from you! Seriously though, I think this nailed it, also brings to mind what Kenny from DPG has said about barrels that have high spots introducing friction requiring more lube/ moisture to overcome the cold bore shot. I suppose starting with the truest barrel possible can minimize if not eliminate cold bore velocity deviation, and of course shooting ammo with lowest standard deviation and extreme spread, ie ammo that is lot tested for your barrel greatly smooth things out. The Pursuit continues! Curious if you took any sniper courses in the Army?
Lots of factors and unknowns for sure.
I never really did any shooting stuff in the military besides the typical rifle qual
Go to a black powder cartridge match, you blow thru after firing a round for the moisture, fouling.
Cool that it works on rimfire
Shane B at Lapua Ohio demonstrated cold bore shifts (and complete control thereof) with a very short down time (time to reload magazine). He combats it by keeping spent round in chamber and bolt closed while reloading mag for next lot test. This prevents the environmental filter vacuum positioned right above the action from sucking air through the bore and out the action. This leads me to believe that controlling the oxygen in the barrel as opposed to the moisture content may be the key. Much like suppressor first round pop. Obviously keeping the action closed with a spent case inside is not feasible at a match, but the H&S ECI's and something over the muzzle (cot, plug, masking tape, etc) is. I appreciate your efforts and look forward to the next round of testing. I also appreciate a pro like GS sharing his own research.
My only issue with that theory is if i leave action open for 30 mins
Then blow through the barrel with the straw
Then wait 5 mins with action open
That would be more than enough time for that air to be displaced with fresh air but not long enough for that air to strip the moisture of that breath.
If the MV then is normal i dont think the air would be the major contributor. Ive tested that before but will retest again.
We may never truly know, outside of testing in a totally controlled environment its difficult to eliminate the variables
@@PursuitofAccuracy I agree. Lots of variables outdoors. Relative humidity, temp, and wind would all contribute to the environment inside the bore and how fast it changes. I’m skeptical how long a breath of moisture really lasts inside the bore; based purely on when I try to fog up my glasses to clean them…not long. Both of your demonstrated methods keep or return the bore to a moist, oxygen depleted state. Is it the moisture or lack of oxygen that eliminates the cold bore? Two variables. Gotta eliminate one to know for sure. Thanks Josh for the great content. Hope to see ya on the firing line again soon.
@@Chopping_Broccoli yeah im thinking for test two maybe i can use a spray bottle to wet the bore and see if it also works
@@Chopping_Broccoli yes sir, appreciate ya
I have a cold bore shift on my .243 wonder if this would work on that ? Very interesting well done 👍
Wow, great video, thanks for info.👍
Wow. Great presentation, Bro. You look as good as anyone, blowing your barrel. Well, I can think of some ladies who would look better doing it. But this was very informative. We have never known, definitively, what causes cold bore shift. We now have a clearer picture.
Honestly i could be totally wrong about why it happens, but its good info going forward in search
Excellent video! Great theory and supporting evidence. I'm going to research and work on this. I'll let you know if I come with anything.
Thanks, part two coming out today
Very cool video. Good to know.
Very interesting video. I have to admit I always thought it was a temperature thing.
Me too
Back in the day doing biathalon, never thought about the cap on the bore keeping this down. Just never had a problem with that rifle compared to my hunting rifle.
Interesting, to be sure.
Interesting. Thanks for the info
Thanks, great video!
Very informative and interesting video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks
Great video josh. Have always wondered about this. I would like to see if the finger glove method works overnight.
This is pretty interesting gonna have to test this
I hope you get it figured out man. Glad my rifles are well tuned and they don't exhibit this.
Its largely gonna depend on what barrels you have and what ammo your running
Great video. Would have liked to see the accuracy added. Thanks for informative videos.
And great informative video !!!👍
Excellent video
Odd, I would have thought pre warming a barrel with a fan might help eliminate a cold bore shot and using a fan between rounds, you basically proved exactly the opposite. Also, standing a rifle straight up on a rack lends to faster barrel cooling, so maybe keeping a barrel level and capping both ends as you have shown might prevent cold bore shift. Thanks for the video brother.
Very interesting good information.
Fascinating stuff 🤔👍
Josh I absolutely love these data gathering video's I call them. Though this one will cause me much grief. First off a good friend of mine told me 20 yeas ago put a foam ear plug in the end of the barrel when you are done shooting and I thought he was bat crap crazy. Dude do you mean to tell me I need to call this dude and tell him he was RIGHT? I think I would rather go on a 20mile hump with my 70pound alice pack in shorts in South Korea winter. The other thing that makes this video great outside of the nice new room yes I am still drooling over it is the fact of how ridiculous you looked blowing on that straw LOL. You surely deserve for this video to go viral super educational and FUNNY to watch.
Haha appreciate ya brother
This reminded me that big naval guns have used compressed air to blow out the remaining gases after a shot...this probably allows them to get maximum, and stable, muzzle velocity...ive been thinking about a system to clear gases from the barrel of a rifle, between shots...it's tricky, but i think can be done mechanically, and with a, let's say, manual air source...of course, the whole thing ccould be done electrically, but maybe it's sub-optimal to need a battery.
Imagine, not just no 'cold bore' issue, but overall more stable velocity, and accuracy.
As someone more known than i would say: it's just a thought
I HATE THAT FIRST SHOT ..I will 100% be giving this a try !!.I have a couple 10/22's I built ..I love all your videos !!.. thank you !!!...
Thanks brother!
Interesting stuff!
Way cool, Josh. Another great video. I wonder if you could just exhale on the first round or potentially use a damp rag on the projectile?
I think it needs it throughout the barrel but worth testing
Thanks for sharing
Thank you 😊
Interesting. I'm also curious to see the effect on accuracy if the finger cot is left on the barrel by accident.
Greg shoots through his every stage lol. So id say no real effect
That's awesome! And super easy
Thanks brother
@@PursuitofAccuracy I enjoy ur videos. Maybe one day I'll pick up a vudoo
@@Lowballinoutdoorz its a great gun but still could go either way between it and the cz
Excellent bit of information. I’ll test it out here in Ireland 🇮🇪
Will you show what the cold bore is on paper as well. Would make more sense to see the group also 👌💪🇮🇪🍀
Yeah sure will, ran out of cameras lol.
The thing is certain barrels even with a cold bore will print the same poi because of harmonics.
So its just another variable
Good to see you here, at least you won't be laughing when you see me with a straw!
Blowing into the bore to maintain consistency and accuracy is a common step with Blackpowder cartridge shooters. Next time, consider shooting at paper at 100yds to 200yds to see if the 'cold bore' shot also changes POI. Varying velocities alone doesn't indicate the that POI will also change ... at least enough to be a problem.
I wanted to show it on paper but ran out of cameras and the chrono was more important. In that rifle its certainly enough to see on paper.
During the test it actually missed high on the 2" kyl at 100 on the first shot
Some food for thought.!🤔
After the straw and or the finger cot was there a point of impact shift like the cold bore?
If not you could be on too something.
Very interesting Thanks for sharing! So cold bore first shot give er a blow 30 rounds walk down then back at bench .Does it need another blow say 10 min.between.
Josh, I appreciate the scientific approach that you employ to test your hypothesis. Your experimentation and resulting data are interesting, and perhaps compelling, but not necessarily conclusive. I'm not 100% convinced that the cold-bore velocity shift is 'caused' by 'moisture', because moisture was not measured. If moisture causes a decrease in velocity, then the removal of moisture in a warm (hydrated) bore should cause an increase in velocity similar to the cold-bore shot. This was not tested. Since there are several potential contributors to the observed shift in velocity, then a "Design Of Experiments" (DOE) is needed to isolate the predominate cause and characterize the resulting effect. Is it possible that the bullet lubrication is affected by temperature in a way that we do not understand? What about chamber temperature affecting case expansion/sealing? I'm looking forward to learning, along with you and your other devoted channel-watchers as you pursue this gremlin of accuracy.
Thanks for all you do for our community.
Yeah unfortunately the variables are nearly endless. Ive tested this off camera for months between temp of barrel and other factors.
The moisture theory seems to be the most consistent in results and predictability
But i agree more testing is required and nothing was proven in this video.
Its all a theory at this point but a compelling one.
We may never truly understand the reasons why but at least we have some interesting solutions in the mean time.
Appreciate you watching and commenting
Wow this is crazy!
Thanks for watching
Wonder if this is the same as first round pop with suppressors, where you have higher oxygen % in the barrel and suppressor, and that first round ignites it. But that is interesting and a simple fix.
My CZ457 MTR definitely has cold bore…. About 2” high and little left at 100yds. I will test with a longer piece of 1/4” vinyl tubing and report back.
Exhaling into the barrel with a cold rifle (50 degrees) resulted in very accurate first shot, which is not typical for this rifle…..so it does work.
Good one !
Very interesting! Always learn something from your videos. I wonder if a can of air duster would do the same? Although, it wouldn’t look as cool as the straw.. lol
I was breathing in it to add moisture so canned air would be a different result i assume
That would be a good test also. If the canned air didn't work, then it reinforces the moisture theory.
One thing I was wondering with the straw is there is moisture in your breath. I was kind of surprised at the result. There might be another reason why this works and your summation might be wrong but the result works anyway.
In my cz457, just the time it took to reload a 10rd magazine would be long enough for the cold bore shift. The idea that it is moisture related was brilliant.
I replaced the factory barrel with a Lilja barrel. Mainly because I wasn't happy with the overall grouping I was getting. I will have to keep an eye out for the cold bore shift on the first round. Great video!
Or maybe its just you?
@@Redacted-Information That might have something to do with it. Between the shakes and blind in one eye, and can't see out of the other, could have some effect!
Marginal gains moves us forward, excellent video. Maybe just use a 2nd chamber empty flag in the muzzle instead of the rubber glove, easy to see its there.
sick scope
Back again, I watched Part 2 and saw you're doing the straw diff this time. Still curious if 'dry air' would make a diff, just removing 'low-oxy' fired gases as someone suggested in an earlier post. Just a thought.
Gonna get some vinyl tubing and maybe try continuously breathing into the barrel, like when reloading mags. Will the addtl moisture make a diff ?? Gotta fire up the chony to see, but maybe after the weather breaks, so I won't break. -15* C this AM .
Ive ran a barrel cooler and the dry air caused the mv jump same as doing nothing but you could make it happen in like 30 seconds instead of 15 mins.
Seems to speed up drying out the bore
Can't believe this this is great.. do you think running a dry patch through the barrel
A dry patch would likely induce a cold bore as it would remove any moisture in the barrel.
it's theory but worth testing, this makes me wonder if lubed ammunition has less cold poi shift when compared to raw lead bullets, if you blow breathe down the chamber with a straw it should make a difference in velocity, i will test with a chronograph the difference between dry patch pass and breath fogging
Good information
I wonder if that would work for my m96 , which is a 6.5x55 cartridge. It has a terrible cold bore shot, but after that it's just over .33 MOA. I'll have to try it. Thanks for the research.
How does this relate to a carbon ring, if at all? Great vid.
Interesting. I just ordered these wondering the same thing.
It’s off topic but what material did you use for your gun room slat wall? It looks awesome
Its the hold up displays wall. Its aluminum panels
I'm so glad you posted this video because I've been peeing in my barrels for years and getting some really strange looks. If you think that blowing through a straw works, you should try peeing. More moisture, better results.👌
Was circulating air through the bore tried? I’ve thought of a tiny cooling fan that blows down the barrel, just like a fan blowing on a wet or damp shop floor drys the surface. Not that what you have proven does not work. I know area clubs would never allow a “bore obstruction” to be placed over the muzzle, and they require that you step behind a red line and not touch your gun during cease fire periods.
Thanks man. Awesome video and I can prestage my squirrel gun before heading into the woods. Would that also eliminate first round pop from a suppressor?
Im not sure on the supressor
Great info. I'm going to test it with both of my CZ 457 with the ammo that they both like. Who makes the chamber flags you are using?
Hoz and shield
If this small amount of water vapor can affect lubrication / speed of bullet, then I wonder how much the remaining smoke in the barrel could also change speed .
Any idea why some 22 ammo has lubricant and larger bore centerfire ammo does not ?
I believe most 22LR ammo produced in the US does not use a lubricant. UK and German brands seem to use lubricants.
Who'd a thunk it? Great video.
Those little finger doohickies were on a few rifles at teh Worlds champs in Italy. I'm betting thats where Greg got started on this. I dismissed it as nonsense but good to hear it may have validity!
Gregg is the reason those barrels in Italy were sealed!
He was the first guy in this sport to measure the phenomenon and see the benefit of plugging the barrel.