DEBUNKING The Budget Myth
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- čas přidán 16. 07. 2024
- Time to talk about music budgets!
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0:00 Intro
1:54 The Artist's Market Value
3:55 Budgets Are Pre-Determined
8:08 Genre And Style
12:39 What's The Deal?
16:24 What Even Is The Budget?
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Divertissement by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
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#filmcomposer #musicproduction #budget
I've heard of a first-time director who saved a bit of money on music by hiring some red-haired guy from a quirky pop band who lacked any film score experience or even a degree in composition (arrangements by Steve Bartek). That composer's fees might have gone up a bit over time though.
You feel comfortable opening up about subjects that others simply don't dare talk about. This was so immensly interesting...
You deserve coffee for life for the information you give.
Ha, if people keep being so generous, I will indeed be able to have a lifetime of coffee supply. :-) It's definitely needed.
Your videos are very helpful - thanks!
Unfortunately I became mesmerized by the flashing colored lights on your workstation - will have to rewatch to see the parts I missed ;-)
Hahaha, I'm a sucker for for RGB lighting in PCs. It is indeed mesmerizing!
A lesson in business 101! Could apply to so many industries!
Indeed! thanks for watching!
Nice clarifications..!! And I agree mostly with the country and the región of it you are working in.
Also, is good to be extremely honest by knowing if we are up to some specific job, so our own value is not underated or overrated..
Thank you,Anne. Grettings.!!
Very down to earth and precise explanations. Thank you Anne-Kathrin!
Just love your channel!! It's your matter of" factness" about the info that's awesome 👍👍👍 I really hope you keep making videos!!!🙏🙏🙏
Hello Anne. Thank you for your insights, it's always very interesting to listen to. I found your thoughts very sound (no pun intended :) I think what you said applies to any field of work. When you negotiate your salary for a new job, any job, it mostly always depends on the company you are applying to, and also considering the experience you have of course. There might be ranges, if you work per hour or a in permanent position, but it’s relative and it’s always a negotiation process and compromise like you said, that you may accept or not. I got a big smile at the beginning, with your very funny touch of humor! :D I am also very happy your channel is growing. You have excellent quality content. Thank you.
Thank you, that's very kind of you to say! I appreciate the support!
Hands-down, the BEST explanation video for this topic I’ve seen. Great insights here!
Thank you! I'm glad this is insightful!
Thx a lot for the Info you share with us!
..and again-> you got me when you opened the beer bottle so beautifully energetic!
I got my booster shot that day so I figured a nice Corona would fit the occasion. ;-)
Thank you for sharing your perspective on that complex topic !
Really important Anne and very helpful for sure!!! Thank you for taking the time!
Great video. It’s so good to hear from someone with up to date experience who is also a good (if under-caffeinated?) communicator.
Thank you! And yeah, I'm always under-caffeinated.
Super clear and what a smorgasbord of fascinating parameters. And you've just described in glorious technicolor pretty much every deal done in every type of business everywhere!. Bar rooms throughout the land, and every corner of the internet, are teeming with "experts" spouting simple solutions to complex issues. And they're almost always wrong. But people keep on listening to them!
Very interesting topic, huge thanks for all the information!
It'd be very informative as well if you could make a video covering what costs are to be expected (roughly) when it comes down to certain services a composer needs during a production. You mention in this video how a 100 piece orchestra recording session in LA is around 100K a day whereas in eastern Europe can be even a 10% of that. What about things like orchestrators, copyists, mixing engineers, soloists, synth designers, song writers, additional writers... I guess those prices might depend hugely on factors you also mention here like their reputation for instance. But what would be the price ranges to have in mind in those instances so you're more aware in a negotiation of what is...well, being negotiated? ^^'
Thank you again, all the best!
I can certainly try that but as you mention it's very hard to put actual numbers to anything since the prices vary so much based on so many factors. And prices will also change over time (due to inflation) and they will be very different based on location.
Another excellent video, thank you! PS Love the humor at the front.
Thank you for watching!
Great video and advice. I'd like to add that the "budget" not only is often unknown to us, but it can change. My music budget on Haunting In Connecticut dramatically increased (by about 60k) due to preview and focus group audience testing going extremely well about a month before recording the orchestra. It completely changed where I could record etc. Frankly it was frustrating not knowing even my own total music RECORDING budget but it started with either midi only or a recording in Europe, and ended with recording in Vancouver where Lionsgate is based.
Thank you for the detailed answer. I took a lot from it. I'd also like to add (for those who are starting out, and have done a few free gigs to know their way around), it’s good to figure out how many hours will be needed for a particular job, and then figure out one's worth in terms of $/per hour . That should be a minimum of what one should charge unless of course it's something which will give you a breakthrough, or all the other factors you talked about.
Very interesting and informative. I’ve seen this percentage myth in some books and internet articles on film scoring. Now, it’s clear how it works. Thanks 👍
so glad i watched this.. thank you so much Kathrin...
Thank you for this and every video you've put up Anne! Regarding the royalties, I can't help to think about an article I read today in vanity fair that is just about Hollywood composers, assistents, ghost writers AND how streaming platforms are forcing for buyout deals so they won't have to pay royalties. As a Netflix composer it would be great to get your input on this (if you can and want).
Streaming services are not forcing buyout deals. Some of them will ask for the full music rights but it's not a problem if the composer declines.
This should be a mandatory lecture at music college or even business school - you've at least mentioned all the salient points that require consideration prior to (hopefully) closing a deal. Excellent!
Many thanks for the helpful video and the proper clearification. Awesome to watch :)
Happy to help! :-) Thanks for watching!
Just chiming in to say Pacifico is also a great beverage! What your describing for budgeting is close to a "hybrid" approach to product / projects, ... hybrid vs. waterfall or agile.
Great overview! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
Interesting, it will be nice if you could make a video about people claiming that film composer agencies have built in deals. They attach composers usually to unknown directors that have studio films.
Also ironically a video about the fact that Composer agencies will not represent you since they do not develop talent in the same way that actors agents do. It truly is not about the best composer but the network and the hustle. Major Composer agencies will only pick you up if you win some award or if you are some sort of already super established/famous composer. these things the music schools would not tell you. Of course, there are exceptions.
These claims are all inaccurate. I’ve already made a video about agents if you want to know how that side of the business works.
ok thank you. I really appreciate your time, I will check it out.
Great insights Anne !!! Much appreciated ! 🤓
What a very down to earth and honest answer to all the questions Anne keep up the great work best wishes Phil UK England 👍🙏
Thank you!
One thing I've learned about the film business is that there isn't really a single "Film Business". Every studio and each film is often its own business. An executive producer friend of mine basically formed a new corporation for each film his Producer started. Even big studios aren't actually always running the entire venture so practices will vary. There may be trending practices but not a lot of hard rules. (That's my take on what I've heard. I could be wrong.)
thanks Anne!
My pleasure!
Great info!
I’ve been in the business a while now and this is the first I’m hearing about this! Lol
candid and very, very, cool!!!!! thank you. j.
Thanks for watching!
Wow Great info! Blessings 😁
Good stuff, thank you for helping to debunk the stupidity that floats around on forums and whatnot.
My pleasure!
And with this excellent video, hopefully we will see less and less of "you need to charge 3/5/7% of the budget", until it finally is gone for good. Cheers
Indeed! It's exhausting for everyone when random people make generalized claims about something that simply can't be generalized since there are no standards set in stone.
Very applicable intel, great food for thought!
As always, very interesting :-)
Glad to hear that!
RGB! Instatnt 100 K subs :D
Does somebody else find the way Anne speaks very calming? She could be meditation guru, or what about guru and conductor at the same time? Musicians can have relaxation therapy while listening her instructions between takes.
Funniest video intro of the year so far. 😂
I try. :-)
Such practical advice
Happy to hear that!
Thank you Anne-Katherine for this video (and many others). I always talk about your channel during my live twitch session because so many of the things I do, you explained it in a video here, on CZcams.
Great advice as always. I'm intrigued to know where these percentage of budget figures came from. Several years ago I did see the full line item budget for the film 'The Village' got posted online, which included the composer fee for James Newton Howard. I'm wondering if these percentage figures were extracted from that or similar documents. Though of course you're absolutely right in saying there are way too many variables to come up with any meaningful single figure.
Someone said it was written in an old film scoring book from decades ago but I'm not sure. I've definitely been hearing this for years, even back in college where teachers were claiming this. The "Village" budget sheet has been floating around for a while but it also leaves a lot of questions. What was the actual budget of the movie (the published numbers aren't always accurate)? Was this a proposal or the actual numbers? How have things changed since the movie came out in 2004? Can we really take one example of an A-lister from almost 20 years ago and apply this to the rest of the industry?
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer Ah I didn't know it went back that far, an old legend indeed. I guess sometimes these things are almost self-fulfilling, I've seen directors/producers of micro budget features use figures like these to draw up their own budgets. Oddly the Village document states total budget of 71M, total music budget of 3.2M so it is about 4-5% in that case. As you point out though that document has a lot of questions attached....
At this point I'd basically be echoing the sentiments of Luis Becken and your own comments about how applicable a lot of this is to many disciplines. Or sometimes life in general.
Indeed, I'd say this applies to any freelance situation or sometimes even corporate situations.
Would love to hear your thoughts on the recent Vanity Fair article 📰🎶🤔
Great video, lots of information. But my big question is "At what time in the contracting process do you know how much music needs to written? i.e. before or after the spotting with the director? Or is it a case of having to trust the Director to ensure that your budget will be covered???
Considering that 2 minutes of new music/score can take anywhere from 1 to 3 days to create, not necessarily document and record with a full orchestra. But if a movie requires 90 minutes of unique music for a 120 minute movie, then that means anywhere from 90 days to a year for creating the score, not necessarily recording it, which would require more time.
So my question is more to do with at what point in the process do you have some clarity on the general scope you are dealing with???
You only know after the spotting session exactly how much music there is going to be. But they will have temped the movie in advance with pre-existing music so they will definitely know the ballpark minutes that will be required. This doesn't usually change the fee much though. It will rather influence the schedule discussions but even those are often set in stone to a large degree if the movie already has distribution and a release date. It definitely shouldn't take a year to create a feature film score - then I'd rather look into becoming faster and more efficient with my work.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer Thank you for your reply. I will admit I did use a little hyperbole to emphasize the point around scheduling. Thank you again for your great videos.
What camera do you use?
what's "in the box"?
It just means working completely digitally. 'The box' meaning the computer.
nice video
Thank you!
Getting a fame, name value~~That's the main issue. Just like actor/actress salaries varies~~
Find ich viel stressiger über Geld nach zu denken als über die Lösung der Problemstellungen... Ruck zuck wird Geld zum Inhalt, lehrt uns glaub ich die Erfahrung... des Geldes wegen Dinge zu tun ist für mich kein guter Ansatz... lieber der Kunst wegen, also der bedingungslosen Hingabe zu einer Thematik oder der Erarbeitung einer Lösung... deswegen bin ich arm, aber unglücklich weil die Umwelt Geld will von mir und so Druck ausübt auf etwas das einen 1000x sinnigeren Ansatz hat und Mehrwert als Geld je erlangen könnte. Entweder ohne Worte vernünftig bezahlt werden oder das System ist für dumme ganz einfach . Aber wir wollen es ja messbar und vergleichbar machen um krasse Unterschiede zu erzeugen um auffällig zu sein um Geld zu "machen" aus einem Zwiespalt den man den Menschen vorführt so dass sie sich möglichst stark gereizt fühlen für ihr Geld welches sie durch Leiden oder Entbehrungen oder Lebenszeit erlangen. ... schlussendlich nehmen wir dann dieses Geld um noch n bissl druck auf den Kessel zu geben durch Werbung oder andere Multiplikatoren... finde den fehler ... da als einzelner raus zu kommen bedarf des Wissens eines wirtschafts Computerspiels und natürlich Gier... oder man rutscht da rein weil man glück hat sozusagen ... aber wirklich nützen tut das keinem, wirklich keinem ... alle krank und nur ich gesund is auch scheisse weil man alle umsorgt als Mitmensch. Extrem ist nie gut ausser um etwas zu lernen daraus ...
The most important question that I would seriously ask:
Do your company make production of pre-existed Composition from a score ? If yes, how to contact you ?
Thank you so much 🙏
TLDW: it's all relative!
Might sound odd but thanks to you I realised I don't want to write game/film music. I want to compose cinematic/game genre but there's no way I would get involved in the industry after everything I learned from you about the processes. I feel it would take all the fun away from it and I can only compose when I feel comfortable and there's no pressure. I suppose it is nicer if people say you inspire them but to me, this is just as valuable.
I love You Anne
Something about that intro is very German and I can’t find out what lol
Sooooo... are you a millionaire yet? :D
I wish. 😅
Great video as always but this incredibly annoying background stock music was quite disappointing. Especially since this is a composer's channel.
Do you expect me to write my own free stock music for each 20-30 minute video? Because then there would be no more videos, I assure you.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer I guess you'd be in need of a whole lot more coffee too in that case:);)
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer Of course not. and I didn't mean to offend you. I just think that even silence is better than these horrible stock musics. I meant that since you are a composer yourself you have a great knowledge of music literature and styles so you could find much better music for your videos. I've also seen some videos where classical music was in the background and to my surprise it was not distracting at all.
Using licensed music costs thousands of dollars though and if I don’t license it, I get demonetized.
@@AnneKathrinDernComposer I meant public domain classical music. But this was only one example. There are a lot of possibilities. Anyway it was only my opinion, so not a big deal :) But I appreciate you reaction. Best wishes
Pretty woman !
Anne-Kathrin, as educated as you are in other areas, you are really off base here.
The Music Budget is always 14% of the Production Budget.
Here's why: The Music Budget is always a piece of the pie. Pie = 3.14.
.14 = 14% Simple math. You can thank me later.