Testing A MrCool At Extreme Cold Temps | Will The Hyper Heat Work?
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Mr Cool Ducted Systems (Hyper Heat) - mrcool.com/central-ducted/
I installed a 36,000 BTU (3 Ton) MrCool Universal Hyper Heat ducted system a few months back and I always wonder how would it perform in extreme cold. This week we have a shot of cold air like most of the country so I took this as the opportunity to test the system's capabilities and share the results with you so you can make an informed decision if you are considering a MrCool heat pump system.
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Here is a roll-up on how much energy it takes to run this unit in the winter czcams.com/video/06CiR6SWkAE/video.html
I have a Mr Cool universal heat pump I installed 2 years ago and I’m very happy with the system. I live in Kansas City and it’s been as low as ~11 degrees this week and we are very comfortable in our 1800 sq ft ranch home. The cost savings running it year around has been enormous. It’s a thumbs up for me.👍🏼
Thanks so much for the additional info/feedback!
So good to see
Replacing my furnace next year… we get down pretty cold at 7k ft in Arizona (minus 20)
I mis-spoke. I said I installed it. I had an HVAC person install it. After watching it done I’m sure I could do it myself. Just did have the electrical confidence.
@@Sacredview you might want to get the resistance heat coils, just in case. I got them, just in case. They are’t that expensive
I wish someone in the USA made a 2 heat pump system in one unit. One compressor for HVAC and one compressor for the water heater!
What a hyper specific video to come across my feed. Not only do I live in IL but I’ve been thinking about installing a Mr cool in my shed but was worried about the current below zero temps.
Google heard your thoughts on this one, huh? Lol
Great to see. My Fujitsu installed in 2015 was also delivering about the same amount. 89° at -1
That was like the very first gen of MrCool in 2015?
On which gen is Fujitsu in 2024?
Well demonstrated. Very clean work on the assembly unit
I remember watching you install that and made it look so easy. I think I commented then, that my parents had a heat pump and the damn thing never worked. They even had a board replaced that was flashing codes but it still didn't work. Theirs was not a "DIY" deal. They had a company come install it, then take it out and reinstall a furnace with another mortgage on the house to cover it. I am glad yours worked out for you. I am in North Saint Louis County, in Missouri and we had wind chills at minus 30 Fahrenheit degrees. But this house does have central heat and air conditioner. Same town as when I was a kid, but different house. I wish I could have got back the house I grew up in, but I never get what I want.
Thank you so much for putting this video out I was actually getting quotes a couple months back for this exact system but I was quoting them to put in the additional 5 kilowatt heaters I don't think are needed now.
I was needing a 3 ton unit and a 4 ton unit
had a mr cool universal installed may 2023, and in the winter it was 15F and measured a temp of 132F coming out of the supply vents, kept the house at 74F, this was the 2/3 ton system set to 2ton, 1008 sqft highest electric bill was $157 ! better then the old heat pump electric bills were over 200$ (more like 230$) and it was a goodman (new install) had it ripped out a year later and put the mr cool in! so glad i did!
That’s pretty impressive, thanks for the report
Technology Connections has a good video on heat pumps and how they work. Convinced me to go with a heat pump next year.
Currently living through three days of below zero (16 two days and then 20) with heavy winds. Our heat pump system without the electric furnace back up is still keeping us in the 70s throughout this time. Our system is an LG and has had lots of control problems. The dealer's tech turned off the furnace and that was the source of many of our problems. Been working great since.
I have the 2-3 ton Universal (Gen 3) with no Aux Heat in Northern Indian. Running in the 3 ton mode, it was not able to hold 70f indoors and dropped to 60f overnight as it hit -9f outside. Ended up with 5 smaller space heaters (one in each main and bedroom) running all day to help out.
Heat out of the vents is normally 100f-105f until it hits ~15f outside then slowly lowers from there. At 5f right now its throwing 97f, but -9f it was throwing ~75f heat.
That said, these cold snaps are only once, maybe twice, a year and as long as stays above 10f or so, it works perfectly fine. I also have a 1.5 story built in '78 and remodeled and reinsulated in 2002 with R13 walls but only R22 roof due to the 2x6 rafters and no room, so could be much better in that regard. I'm looking to rectify that soon.
edit: added current temps
these mr cool units are rebaged Gree units and are considerd C tier at best in europe. they are pretty bad in winter. for heating you are much better of with something from mitsubishi heavy or electric.
In fact, they are made for MrCool by Gree. In the same way iPhones are made for Apple by a Chinese factory. Like all heat pumps, their efficiency falls off as the outdoor temperature falls, and once you're below about -15C/5F it's best to switch on your backup heat source. This is nothing out of the ordinary. MrCool may not be top-of-the-line but we can't all afford to drive Ferraris. The Fords and Volkswagons get the job done.@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld Mitsubishi unit could do better, but they don't offer anything over 42k btu here ducted. And Gree has their Ultra units that are rated to -31 F now.
And yes, they have hot gas recovery in the outdoor unit as well.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld Also should add, this unit in the vide is NOT the Gree FLEXX unit, this is the Midea unit that Carrier, Cooper and Hunter and others sell.
Thank you for this quickly referenced response to the "it doesn't work when it's cold" FUD.
Scott, thanks so much for this! I was waiting for your winter update. I'm planning on a DIY 2T MrCool Hyper Heat in the spring here in Cincinnati, OH. I'm dumbfounded by how little knowledge there is in the midwest about these newer heat pumps. I've seen many reports like your that these system ARE working at low temps as designed. But still, with so little adoption it makes me feel like I'm missing something or I am crazy...
Yeah, there is a lot of dated knowledge on these systems. With that said I like to have a plan for supplemental heat if the power goes out. That is the big thing I miss with a gas furnace. If the power goes out with the gas furnace I just need to power the air handler to ensure the home stays warm. Overall I have been very impressed.
Same issue here in Central Ohio. Most companies are putting in builder grade single stage equipment or are blindly loyal to legacy brands that are behind when it comes to inverter units.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs if you can get a generator to run the furnace you can also just get a generator that can run this rebaged Gree unit.
Great to hear that! Can you please make another video comparing the energy cost when running these heat pumps vs the energy consumed by a regular furnace (gas or oil)?
if I remember correctly it would be cheaper to run natural gas from a video I watched a couple weeks ago. On the other hand, electrical usage can be offset by certain means e.g solar panels or other renewable resources charging batteries.
That depends on your average temps in winter
@@sprockkets I live in Canada… lol
But here where I live in Ontario, I don’t have so many days below 0 F but constant days on low temperatures during winter. I guess my gas furnace is still worthy.
If all that matters to you is the price then convert both to price per therm or kWh and see for yourself.
1 therm is about 29kWh. 1 kWh of electricity is 22c here, 1 therm of natural gas is about 1 CCF which is about $1.50. Or about 5c per kWh for gas. However gas is 90% efficient while heat pumps can be up to 400% efficient at turning each kWh used into kWh of heat in the house. Heat pump efficiency drops in colder weather, down to about 200% for the Mr. Cool at sub-zero F temps.
So gas would be 2 times cheaper roughly when it's stupidly cold out, and about the same when it's not that cold.
However you can get solar to power your heat pump, you cannot get solar to power your gas furnace. So gas users will always be beholden to big oil, OPEC, SA, and the stability of the gas supply. Oil isn't getting more common either, solar power is still getting cheaper and more common.
@@VictorPaixao4fun Pricewise, at least at the moment, natural gas is 2x cheaper than a heat pump. That's betting on an average COP of 3.
If you spend a lot near 0 F, it's going to be worse, with a COP around 2, at the very best.
Great information Scott. I'm curious about the power consumption of the unit at sub zero temps. Looking forward to that next video.
Yeah, I have been waiting for the cold snap to really see what the daily consumption would be on the high side. Not looking good 😬 if you ever wanted to run one of these units off-grid.
Im near St Louis and I just installed a bosch 4 ton heat pump. Turns out the ductwork that was ran 32 years ago is undersized. But even with that its been holding its own. The outdoor unit has been in 20-40 mph winds, thermostat is set to 70° and it was holding temp pretty good until actual temp got below 0. Thats when the aux heat started kicking on for shortish bursts. Its been running virtually non stop to keep up but it's been cycling the aux heat on and off. The outdoor unit hasnt had any ice build up so far and the temp in the house hasn't been below 68.
You will get even better results by sealing and insulating the basement return and supply ductwork. Cellars are colder than living spaces and the metal ducts act as heatsinks reducing both the supply and return temperatures. We have another manufacturer's hyperheat heat pump and have recorded supply temperatures as high as 108 degrees F from the middle of the ductwork run.
We are pleasantly surprised as to how efficient heat pumps are after installing the whole house and hot water heat pumps. We have solar with one-to-one net metering and have more credits than the last two years at this time with the same annual solar production.
I’ve got the central ducted earlier non-hyper heat version. It can hold its own down to about 5F, which is its rating. I’ve been quite impressed so far.
Thanks for the feedback!
If only people knew about these things, how much money they can save, and how they relatively easy to DIY. Didn’t do the whole house system, but I did put in a few mini splits and seldom use my 12 SEER central AC now, but still run the blower to get cool air into the random rooms like the pantry and laundry room.
Our Mitsubishi with hyper heat (or similar) kept our house at 68 with overnight lows around -20 here in Maine last winter.
Impressive! Thanks for the feedback.
I have a newly built house in Pueblo. During construction I wanted a similar heat pump installed, but for whatever reason (probably greed) the builder or their contractor installed a crappy Armstrong unit.
It has been 0F or below for the past few days and that thing cannot get it above 60f in here without resorting to the 'hair dryer' coils.
I'm using over 30kWh a day when just a few weeks ago I was using just over 10kWh. Electricity here is 22c/kWh, so that's $6 per day for heating.
I'm trying to buy and get the right one installed, a similar 3ton Mr. Cool, but none of the HVAC companies around here want to work with equipment they don't sell. A few of them have had not nice things to say about Mr. Cool, but I expect that has more to do with poor DIY installs than the units themselves.
Glad to hear another report of the Mr. Cool one working as advertised.
The video at 3:38 shows the ice from the unit taking defrost cycles. You didn't explain the impact of defrost on the indoor register temp. My old technology HP has resistive heat strips that run during the defrost cycle so that there is still warm air coming out of the registers during the defrost cycle. You made it clear that there is no supplemental heat - so does it blow cold air or is there some new technology to defrost the outdoor coil? Thanks for the informative video.
This is not the Universal series, this is the ducted series. This unit is based on a Midea unit and you can get versions made by others like Cooper and Hunter. The Universal unit is based on a Gree FLEXX unit and does NOT have a communicating thermostat.
Could you share if you had to submit any permits with your local municipality in order to install this unit? If so, what did that process look like?
If you ever have accumulating snow around the unit, you need to elevate the unit on a stand of some type, otherwise snow can fill the unit from the side and stop one or both fans from running.
Does the unit have to reverse operation to defrost the outdoor coils if they frost over? Also, do you know if this unit is just a white labeled one from AC Pro, or does Mr Cool actually manufacture this unit.
I had an air to air heat pump plus and electric furnace in the attic. This was in Oklahoma where most homes are on slabs. So the ducts typically blow out from the ceilings. I did not really like it. In winter, with just the outside heat exchanger running, sure it was pulling heat from the air when it is cold. But frankly, sitting on the couch and having essentially cool air blow on you in winter is not much fun. It may save energy, but I was not a fan of 50 degree air hitting me. If I wanted real noticeable heat, I had to switch on the electric backup furnace.
I have been a general contractor for over 30 years. I have had nearly 100 heat pumps installed in my projects which range from Southern California to Northern Wisconsin. I am not a fan of Chinese heat pumps but if you are on a tight budget, Gree is not a bad choice (Mr Cool is a private label made by Gree). A better choice is to get the cold weather version of Mitsubishi, LG, or Daikin. Always size the unit to the heat load. (Yes the heat load is influenced by window quality, insulation etc.)
LG and Mitsubishi can be purchased online from Build with Ferguson or SupplyHouse.
Thanks for the great feedback Albert 👍
I love your videos. I do just want to clarify - you keep referring to the system as the Universal Hyper Heat system. There is a Universal System and a Hyper Heat System by MrCool - they are not the same; they are two different systems by MrCool. They both utilize the quick connect lines and are very very similar. I finally figured this out after doing quite a bit of research and looking for a "Universal Hyper Heat" system.
I have a Mitsubishi hyper heat mini split system in my 1000sf home but these negative temps over the last few days have not been up to the task. Thankfully I kept my gas furnace just in case this winter.
Thermostat settings play a huge part how these systems run. So if the settings are incorrect they won’t run down really cold temps
I use a heat pump to maintain temperature in the winter as I never use it to warm up a house as the auxiliary heat does that.
Please share the savings you claim. Gas vs electricity and cost of install. Thanks
I had a 4 ton Mitsubishi installed in Colorado in August, 1400sqft house built in 2004. We had the same cold snap, between -14F and 0F for 3 days. Heat was set at 71F because my wife is sick, and it was fine. The energy monitor says it pulled 7.5 kWh peak, 95 kWh a day. My ice buildup looks like in the video. Next time I'll probably set a lower temp.
Yikes . 95 a day is what cooling in 110° this summer cost on a traditional 14 SEER 2100 ft home .
You really do need a backup heat source. Minus 14F is COLD and there's very little heat in the outdoor air to gather. Your heat pump was probably just running on its heat strips (resistance heaters) which are a very expensive form of built-in backup. Get a woodstove, or something you can depend on when the weather gets this cold.
@@paulmaxwell8851I don't have heat strips either. The installer said they'd cost $3K, I figured that would buy a lot of electric space heaters.
@@paulmaxwell8851remember that 0°F is 255 kelvins, or 255 kelvins above absolute zero (where there's no heat energy). 100°F is 311 kelvins. Not a crazy spread there. There's a lot of energy to be gathered. But it still takes energy to gather it from the air!
I would guess that person had a Hyperheat in Colorado...meaning it'll blow hot air down to around - 22°F or 243k.
I think it's wiser to use a cold climate inverter style, but not Hyperheat, heat pump in up to zone 4...with aux strips, rather than a Hyperheat because they're actually slightly more efficient than a Hyperheat unit during the vast majority of their operating conditions. The strips should only need to energize during defrost (let the inverter ramp up and do the job rather than resorting to the strips over 2°, except for the absolute most extreme conditions...which happen about 2 hours per year. Hopefully the installed thermostats have adequate logic to behave in such a fashion.
Scott, do these have a SEER-type of rating intended to imply a certain level of efficiency for a given space? How would a buyer compare efficiencies today for heat pumps?
I have a ground source heat pump. What I would say to anyone considering this, make sure you oversize the system if you have an older home. My house has heat loss issues. If I had a tighter home, I think it would be able to maintain a comfortable temperature without using the back-up propane furnace to maintain the setpoint during really cold weather (single digits). Another thing to be aware of, with a heat pump you don't want to use setbacks at night, keep the thermostat at a constant temperature. It simply takes way too long to bring the house back five degrees.
How tight is the house?
Awesome video, quick question, what's your house square fottage and how many hours mr cool has been working today at what wattage? trying to estimate average house electrictiy consumption for heatpumps in these conditions. Thanks
Here is more of deep dive on the max power draw and daily energy consumption. Interesting results for sure czcams.com/video/06CiR6SWkAE/video.htmlsi=0g8P8nHIV1tNWsZr
tell me i inspired you to make it :) cheers!@@EverydayHomeRepairs
@@mostafaelgamel6415 I read the comments 💯 thanks for the feedback
I have an Amana/Goodman heat pump ac with 20 kw of heat strips that come on at 32 or below. They are currently rapidly spinning my meter.
I bet! Although this unit without the heat kit will still pull a serious amount of kWh per day. I will roll up the data on our other channel (Everyday Solar) today or tomorrow
I live in an area where electricity is insanely expensive. 44¢ kwh vs $3.20 gallon for propane. I don't have air conditioning. Can't do solar and I only have a 125 amp circuit. It sounds like propane heat is the best for me at this time. Any thoughts?
That’s impressive for a diy unit
I know some people give MrCool a hard time but for my 2 units I have been impressed with the hardware 👍
@@EverydayHomeRepairs I’m looking at a Mr cool to replace my window box unit in my office. I am in board I think they make a good unit for the price and especially if I can install it myself.
Hey, Scott! I’m yet to watch the video, but am glad to see the “winter” side of this unit under test.
Edit: [Mr.] Cool video! I’m hoping to move away from the surface of the Sun to a region where I’ll see four seasons. Good information.
Thanks for the feedback 👍
My cooper hunter heat pump is designed to run up to -22 f. It’s a 2.4 ton unit heating 600 square feet brick wall house. And I would say it’s not enough. But we are limited by amount of input current in Ukraine, we only have 240 volt 16amp
Yeah, I saw this unit go up to a power draw of up to 7 kW when the temp dipped down to -9F (-23C) which is a heavy load and not going to work on a 16 Amp service. Thanks for the feedback and be safe over there.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs thanks. It was huge problem as we had to turn everything off so that heat pump doesn’t trip the street breaker
You mention in the video the outdoor unit is fed with a 50A 240V circuit? That seems massive for a 3 ton unit. My 3-ton Mitsubishi Hyper Heat unit only uses a 30A 240V Circuit, and that includes backfeeding the indoor unit from that same circuit (no separate circuit for the indoor unit required). I wonder why the Mr. Cool needs such a bigger supply?
It probably doesn't, but this particular unit needs only one circuit, as the outdoor unit powers the indoor one.
Hmm, I have a propane furnace currently, wonder what the cost difference would be going with this MrCool system. I don't have central air, so the MrCool system would be nice, but is it worth the cost to replace the furnace to have heat/air both. Not sure what it would cost to add central air but it can't be any less than this whole unit....I have a 1200 square foot home, and think the system you have would work just as well here in Idaho, currently in single digits and slightly below overnight....but I have a wood stove I use when I'm not at work. My current recurring issue is when the furnace has to run really often when I'm at work, I come home to a freezing house because the condensate drain freezes up and shuts down the furnace.
You can use a mrcool universal, replacing ONLY your outdoor condensor/HP (assuming your evaporator has a TXV, properly sized and set up for a HP). Then you have your propane furnace as aux/emergency heat. In most of the country, even resistance heating matches or beats propane at winter pricing, and the cost is much less volatile. Here in the south, our EMC charges about 4 cents less per kw/h after 1k. Also, for now - the 2-3 ton (but not the 4-5 ton) mrcool unit qualifies for the 30% tax CREDIT. ("Inflation Reduction Act" lol). In the south, these things really perform well in the summer compared to our old 10 and 14 seer units, but almost anything new would.
If you don't have A/C now you would also have to insert a new evaporator inline with your existing furnace and run a new lineset. Also covered in the tax credit.
I got a mitsubishi system professionally installed which is woefully undersized for anything below 30F :c
Can a heat pump be turned off under 30 degrees
My past experience with heat pumps has been horrible. I'm surprised, and impressed! You said temps were close to 0.. I am concerned with how it will do when temps drop below 0, which will happen in IL.
to be fair: the US is horribly behind compared to the japanese brands and the units the SU does get like the bosch and these rebaged Gree units are pretty far on the bottom end of the quality and performance tier.
@@SupremeRuleroftheWorld I have the 48k version of this unit. Please note that these are hyper heat units, not universal units, although both are central ducted units. Universal units are rebadged Gree but hyper heat is a different manufacturer.
Can you get better performance with a top-of-the-line Mitsubishi minisplit? Yes you can. But you'll pay far, far, far more when you factor in the install. MrCool sells DIY units to people who will never be able to drop $10,000 to 20,000 on a heat pump. They work well, but have their limitations AS DO ALL MAKES AND MODELS. As I said above, we cannot all afford to drive Ferraris and MrCool is helping to make HVAC affordable for ordinary people. @@SupremeRuleroftheWorld
someone is a Mitsu snob LOL
@@sprockkets fun fact: both my air/water heat pump and 2 separate minisplits in my home are from panasonic.
I'm curious what the electric draw is? I've had older heat pumps in the past which had to use aux heat at an extra 5 or 10 KWh. No thanks. I'm now in a house with nat gas and this year it's still cheap
Here is more of deep dive on the max power draw and daily energy consumption. Interesting results for sure czcams.com/video/06CiR6SWkAE/video.htmlsi=0g8P8nHIV1tNWsZr
A couple days ago here in western Canada we experienced overnight lows of -49F and highs of -35F. Are any of these heat pumps capable of, or even surpassing, the heat output of a typical natural gas furnace used to heat say a typical 1200 square foot bungalow?
The heat pump units would depend on those "heat kits" to provide heat down to those temps but it would be a Massive power draw on your system. I think having a supplemental heat source like a pellet stove and maybe some space heaters would be a little more efficient way to go. These units are nice but pull a serious load once the temps dips under 0F.
Cold weather heat pumps are not currently designed to work below about-10°F. For your location you need a dual fuel heat pump or a water to air system.
Curious what the energy draw is at that temperature; I expect it will be higher than during more mild weather. We get a lot of cold weather up here in Maine, but in the area where I live, we also tend to get plenty of power outages, sometimes for days at a time. A portable generator runs my furnace just fine; not sure if that would work with a heat pump at -20 though.
Usually pretty similar energy usage, except during defrost which happens more often if the outdoor coils operate both below the dew point and below freezing. Very dry, cold air - not a problem. Rainy and foggy near freezing - the unit will spend a lot of time defrosting those outdoor coils.
Defrost might pull heat from the room ("blows cold air") or use electric heating or possibly some combination ("blows less hard and it doesn't feel very warm").
It would have to be a massively huge generator to power a heat pump and an air handler. He said the outdoor unit is 50 amps alone, and a 15 amp 240 volt circuit for the indoor blower. Most of this channel's videos are literally just infomercials for the products they're featuring, hence the manufacturer's link to the product in the description. They'll never expose the gory details of the product's drawbacks. If you suffer outages for days at a time, stick with fossil fuels as a furnace or boiler using gas, oil, kerosene or propane running on 15 amps 120 volts is easily powered by most portable generators.
@@darrendolphdragos9752The 15 Amp and 50 Amp he referred is the breaker size and has little to do with the amount of power. Nation electric code(nec) derates them to 80% so 52 amps total which is equivalent to 12.48 kW and it still probably doesn’t use that much power. A 12 kW generator should be able to power it no problem and you might be able to get by with one a little smaller like a 9kw. You just have to make sure you have a variable start. If it is not and has a high lock rotor amps (LRA) like older units use to have it could cause problems with the generator.
@@ryanp6267 Ryan, I'm aware the actual load of the heat pump and blower aren't the breaker ratings. But anyone with a generator sized to run this heat pump, who needs to run it for possibly days at a time, better have quite a number of gas cans for that portable 9kW generator. It's possible, but IMHO simply impractical. Plus anyone with a backup generator surely would want at least a couple of circuits in the house available. As far as variable (we call it soft start) I believe most of these heat pumps use inverter technology (at least the ductless systems do) and convert the AC current to DC and always soft start.
Here is more of deep dive on the max power draw and daily energy consumption. Interesting results for sure czcams.com/video/06CiR6SWkAE/video.htmlsi=0g8P8nHIV1tNWsZr
Question. I am in a very humid location, how does it do with that? The central heat pump I have will heat, but it is a muggy wet feeling heat. I have gas downstairs which comes out dry, but I don't think the air in the heat pump system gets warm enough to dry the air.
No heater system "dries" the air, period. You might think that if your coil is wet from air conditioning.
Impressive! I thought heat pumps bottomed out about 35°F.
Some of them do. Pay attention to their spec sheets, and stay away from Armstrong if you live somewhere cold. Or hot. Or on Earth... just stay away from them, they suck. IDK why the builder decided to go with that unit in this house.
I'm trying to get a proper low-temp capable heat pump installed here, but getting a unit that the HVAC companies don't profit off of installed is annoyingly difficult.
Old units certainly. As a kid growing up, we had a heat pump in a house built in 1978 and the aux heat light would come on within a couple of degrees of outside being freezing. To see units now be able to perform this well at temperatures 20 to 30 degrees colder than that is amazing. I'd love to see what kind of heat it is able to put out near it's minimum spec temp of -20F.
@@JcewazhereArmstrong is just builder grade Lennox, and Lennox has had lots of issues, that they may finally have fixed. They were great back in the 90s, course so was Trane and others.
I have a similar unit with a Trane badge but has a Gree twin rotary compressor. (4 ton 2300 square foot house.) I'm a little disappointed that the defrost cycle is on a two hour timer. I would have thought it would detect the snow/ice buildup and clear it as required. Do you know if the MrCool uses the same two hour timer for defrost? Thanks for the consumption information. I don't have a household load display so I won't know until I get my next utility bill.
@lon6320 Yours is a Gree Flexx. This unit is a Midea Evox. I wonder if a legacy US Trane, demand defrost board could be retrofitted to your Gree Flexx.
Great content. One question why 36,000 btu in a 1000 sqft home. Seems greatly oversized by at least a 1ton and a half.
I knew I would need some addition capability because I only have R18 in the roof/ceiling and R13 in the walls. Also, I am keeping the basement (additional square footage) around 60F. If you have an efficient living space I agree 36,000 BTU would be more than needed for 1,000 sq ft.
The new hyper heat units can keep up with sub zero temperatures, BUT you will pay for it on your utilities bill.
Is there a video available that explains how they're able to make a heat pump work that well at 0°F ??
That's a huge change !!
I think Matt did a great job showing some of the advances that are making this possible czcams.com/video/H3jIRRzF6d0/video.htmlsi=12yeWGrademM-BRv
Inverter based drive is most of the improvements. Hot gas bypass also helps with this system.
@@sprockkets Well I'm thoroughly impressed
I did HVAC for 30 years from the starting in the early 80's and it's amazing it took this long to get a heat pump to heat in freezing temperatures without auxiliary heat...
@2packs4sure basically as you know, it takes more capacity and energy to heat, than in cool mode.
It can deliver heat, but it will need more defrost cycles and each cycle will require more heat than when operating near freezing. While this (and other new heat pumps) can work with colder ambient, even old school heat pumps can deliver heat down to well below freezing and needed to defrost. The issue is defrost cycles and the net energy usage over time once those defrost cycles are taken into account as well as comfort during those defrost cycles. Usually a well documented heat pump will specify its performance coefficient curve vs. ambient temperature. In theory it is cost effective to operate while performance is greater than 1 (at which point just use electric heat) but usually it is better to stop well before then to avoid excess wear and tear on the equipment and simply for occupant comfort.
How much energy does it use during defrost compared to "while heating"? Does it blow cold during defrost? If not, where does the defrost energy come from?
Heating water may be the ideal heat pump application. That provides a large reservoir of heat for defrost, with no concern about "blowing cold air" and the backup heat can be called upon the supplement if heat demand exceeds reservoir capacity.
As far as COP numbers at various ambient temperatures, you can look that up in the NEEP database. Tons of information about all brands of heat pumps. I get what you’re saying about heating water, but that’s just not how homes are heated in the Midwestern United States. Other than a few *very* old houses, basically everything is forced air here - whether by gas, oil, propane, or heat pump.
Surprised you don't elevate the condenser more even thou it on a pad. Normally I see condenser on snow legs or up a bit higher if there in a snowy region.
But how does it feel in the rooms? Are the comfortable? I am having the opposite of your situation. I installed mini split heats pump and imo it can’t keep up with the cool
Oh yeah, everything is balanced out well and maintains close to the thermostat setpoint.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs that’s good to hear. I think my system may be undersized for the spaces. Im calling the company tomorrow to discuss it with them.
Do you know what the unit was pulling for wattage in these conditions?
Here is more of deep dive on the max power draw and daily energy consumption. Interesting results for sure czcams.com/video/06CiR6SWkAE/video.htmlsi=0g8P8nHIV1tNWsZr
Heat pumps are just going to keep getting better. The department of energy is holding a cold climate heat pump challenge and most of the major brands are in the field trial phase.
Yeah, I have been impressed with the improvements over the years 👍
Be careful with doe. I used their testing data to base my air source heat pump purchase. The test data was not valid. I suspect they use manufacturer testing data, which may not be reliable. And/or doe testing controls were not fully disclosed.
Shouldn’t those exposed lines be insulated all the way to the indoor unit?
That would be best practice for sure.
Wow, 240V 50A? My 3 ton AC compressor is only 20A. Is the other 30 amps a resistive element?
I'm pretty sure his breaker is way too big. The 2-3 ton spec is 25A MCA and 35A MOCP. I imagine a 30 amp dual pole breaker would work just fine with no nuisance trips. However based on the dual condensor fans in the video it seems like he installed a 4-5 ton unit, which should be ok with a 40A breaker.
Do you know how many Kwh it's using per 24-hour period?
Here is more of deep dive on the max power draw and daily energy consumption. Interesting results for sure czcams.com/video/06CiR6SWkAE/video.htmlsi=0g8P8nHIV1tNWsZr
Interesting my heat pump is 3.5 ton Goodman not as good as those you have it will work at the 12 but it’s not turning off air is no where 90 coming out of the register.
Yeah, I have a crappy 2.5 ton Armstrong unit that's also having trouble now that it's near and below 0. Trying to get a better one installed without overpaying by buying it from the installer is like pulling teeth. ~$4000 for a 3ton Mr. Cool online, or $15,000 for a Daikon/Mitsubishi from the installer...
I'm in Idaho and it has been cold (low around zero) heighs in the teens and I've kept my thermostat at 65. I'm using a gas furnace
I have a propane furnace, I leave it at 60 degrees most of the time while I'm not home, when I'm home I use the wood stove...can't afford the propane to use the furnace all the time when I'm home LOL. Its 3 degrees right now, I'm in Emmett.
I don't have central AC, but if they can make a heat pump that actually works in sub zero temps that might be the way to go....I just have a window AC unit but that poor thing struggles in the 100+ degree days we usually get in July/August.
Well good for you! You're spending a lot more money for fuel, and you're contributing to climate change. Also OT.
@@incognitotorpedo42 not really. The furnace is 80% efficient but the electric company uses natural gas power plants which are 60% efficient.
Thanks for showing us your costs. That is the one thing to see spelled out so clearly. I believe your answer is in adding the additional heat element. I saw this video after I saw yours. czcams.com/video/BP1iDvKpNZA/video.html
This guy says the heater consumes energy, but not for a long time. I recently saw a Daikin unit being installed and they had to come back and add the auxiliary heat element. The installers joked about how it would perform, but I now see the reason why. Take a look into adding it for yours. I have used your video on Sub Panel install and The Difference in Electrical Boxes, and found them to be informative. Thank for posting content.
Unfortunately, for me, this system wouldn't work, because i can only have around 1100cfm with my ductwork, and around 30k btus at below zero temps just wouldn't cut it. I would have to use ductless with at least 60k capacity between 3 units.
As a native Texan. I am too used to Natural Gas. Electric furnaces and heat pumps are of the Devil😂. Glad you had success with your unit.
😂😂😂 I can't help but laugh about the Of the Devil bit 😂😂😂 that's my go to comparison for things 😂😂😂
@@HannahMattox Figured Libs go the Hitler route. Figured I would be light hearted and humorous.
I always find it fascinating that people tie the performance of heat pumps to the freezing temperature of water as if when water freezes somehow he pumps fail even though the refrigerant isn't water. Other people I've seen say that zero degrees Fahrenheit is another threshold that a heat pump can't heat which is just an arbitrary number that they come up with somehow that has nothing to do with the coefficient of performance of the unit in any way. Just baffling.
I've heard that supply that's below 98 still feels cool because your body is so warm. Did the supply air at 91 feel warm to you?
Warm but not as hot as a gas burning furnace.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs still impressive at 9 below.
a regular heat pump would not have been able to keep up at those low temps, esp blow zero. but you have a "Hyper Heat" unit type of heat pump similar to the sub-zero heat pumps sold in northern latitudes that can handle those temps. So not really a good test.
I wouldn't mind if they were able to just maintain even 50F, because everyone can throw on heavy blankets and sweaters!
Yeah, I think even moving the thermostat down to 60F-65F would really help to bring down the power draw of this unit.
3 tons for 1000 q ft? That sounds like overkill. Perhaps that is a big contributor to the unit's performance?
He should have it set for the 2ton.
It’s a disservice to not include the load calcs to understand what the home needs relative to the unit installed.
😚🤌
I bought a Mrcool 5 ton universal heatpump with the two fans. And it was always breaking down. Warranty department doesn't stand behind their brand. Always making excuses
Producing heat from a heat pump in cold climates makes no sense unless your electricity is dirt cheap
Seems like a 3 ton unit for a 1000 sq foot home seems a bit large unless you were also heating and cooling the basement and did not add that space
brutal cold? lol
Using Mitsubishi's product name is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
@EverydayHomeRepairs Scott I am not a constant critic, I do appreciate the effort and HUGE value you provide to the DIY community. This one got under my skin a bit, but I am a fan and know that you are above and beyond a honest and ethical guided content creator.
Original post:
🚩Big Red Flag Here!🚩
Video doesn't answer your question.
The question you asked the community was:
"Is the [Mr. Cool Heatpump] system able to maintain 70F in the home without any supplemental heat?" When it was -9F outside.
Then you did a bait-and-switch by:
🚩Measuring the temperature at the registers🚩
🚩Show ZERO measurements of the rooms in the home🚩
The elephant 🐘 in the room is not can heatpumps *produce heat* in -9F, its can it maintain a 70F house when its -9F outside.
Why couldn't you show a measurement of room air temperatures? Or thermal camera view of a room? Or put a small tabletop thermometer in each room?
This makes me so frustrated!
Zero acknowledgement of R-values, Air-sealing ACH ratings of the building, and Solar heat gain to name a few.
But to everyone else wanting a Heat-Pump: yes they work, almost like magic. Have a back-up source of electricity (grid goes down in snow storms) and a separate backup source of non-electric heat generation.
Thanks for the feedback, should have made that more clear other than showing the thermostat with the set temp of 71F and the room temp at 70F during a heating cycle. Even over night at -9F the unit was able to maintain 71F but she is a little power hog.
@EverydayHomeRepairs Scott I am not a constant critic, I do appreciate the effort and HUGE value you provide to the DIY community. This one got under my skin a bit, but I am a fan and know that you are above and beyond a honest and ethical guided content creator.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs "power hog" sounds like it might have been hitting the aux heating coils pretty hard...
@@Sylvan_dBI installed 2/3 ton Mr Cool (set in 3 ton mode) last summer. My results a couple of nights ago at 9F (not -9) were similar to registers. It is also a matter of duct size, room size, windows, insulation etc. My 3 ton unit without auxiliary is a little undersized for my application so on really cold days I have to supplement with baseboard heat. I chose to undersize a bit on extreme temps rather than oversize to handle all conditions. All of my duct is internal in the conditioned space and would have to go through attic to increase duct capacity. The 90 something duct temp on cold days is warm, but not the satisfying “sit in front of the heater” hot air. It’s doing it’s job. Most days. Only ran for a couple of weeks at end of summer in cooling mode with 80F outdoor temps. Did fine. I’ll see how it does in 90F temps next summer.
That is not a 3 ton unit. That is a 5 ton unit . you can switch it to 4 ton but that is still way to big for your small house. i have a 2 to 3 ton universal in my 2500 sq ft house and it works awsome. max it has pulled is 40kw a day
Only rich people can afford to get a good inverter heat pump system.