Why F1 2010's new teams all failed
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Genuinely new teams are a rarity in 21st century Formula 1, given building up a new constructor from scratch is almost prohibitively difficult.
Yet in 2010, four newcomers were granted a place as the grid expanded to 13 teams, meaning F1 should have hit 26 cars for the first time since 1995. Infamously, USF1 collapsed before it ever participated in an F1 race, although Lotus Racing, Virgin and HRT made it. Or at least, they did for a time, as all had vanished by 2017.
So let’s look back at what led to that flurry of newcomers and why they failed to stick it out in F1.
00:00 An F1 rarity
00:38 The push for new teams
02:57 Shifting landscape
04:05 Tales of failure
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They were promised a cost cap would be implemented quickly but it never came.
Well it came 12 years later😂
@@CmLeo145 yes, but that’s in an era where the teams realized they can just tell newcomers to get the hell out of here if they aren’t manufacturers, so is it really that much of an improvement?
Kind of like Red Bull then
@@mrsoisauce9017 or willing to buy out an existing team. F1 isn't that attractive to start from scratch now.
@@WhiteG60 maybe inflation does not help too
It shows how expensive F1 has become for the proposed cost cap back in 2010 when they first thought about it to be £30M
Hybrid be that way. Even crazier that the biggest teams didn't even blink.
back then the team budgets were around the same as the current cost cap or more, 30M was a joke for most of the teams that's why it was removed
Maybe a double-hybrid system that does nothing but make the cars larger, heavier and more expensive just so auto manufacturers can virtue signal about the enviroment was a "bad idea" in single seater racing. Car companies dominating the sport is the worst thing eccleston did during his tenure in charge. F1 was far more "F1" when teams like Lotus, Brabham and Arrows were in the sport, real racers, than a marketing wing of a mega corporation.
Somehow its too expensive to ship refueling equipment to each race (that makes the cars smaller and lighter so they can fit on a track together), but a hospitality center that takes 8-12 semi trucks to transport so corporate guests can ignore the race in comfort is no problem for the sport to handle.
@@thevictoryoverhimself7298 refueling is about more than expense. The primary reason they don’t do it anymore is safety, and because they don’t have to.
@@mmonkeyman1403 the stated reason at the time was shipping costs. I was there at the time :). This was in the middle of a bunch of dumb knee-jerk reactions to the 2008 financial crisis that we are still living with in f1.
Almost craziest of all, we went from having no teams called Lotus - to the return of the Lotus name - to weirdly having 2 separate teams both calling themselves Lotus... and then eventually losing both 'Lotus' teams and having no Lotus on the grid again! 🤷 It's a strange old sport sometimes... gotta love it!
Yes, that was very weird. It's still painful to think about which lotus was which.
@@MilanStojakov one was Lotus and the other was Caterham actually. It did however became Lotus before in 2010.
@@purwantiallan5089 There was a year where we had Team Lotus and Lotus Renault from memory
@@andyhui01 I'm pretty sure that was 2011 :)
To muddy the waters further, one Team Lotus was a brand new team, but not the original Team Lotus, and later renamed Caterham. The other, Lotus F1 was a rebrand of Renault, which was itself a rebrand of Benetton which had competed against both Renault and Lotus for several seasons in the 1980s.
It's sad when I see people use these teams as an reason that Andretti shouldn't join. Its a completely different situation, and unlike these teams, Andretti wouldn't be doomed from the start.
I miss Manor.
Its because of those teams why there is pushback on andretti joining F1.
@@SD-mi2vc And they shouldn't be. The situation is completely different. That's my point.
@@rhodrage its because andreeti a threat. As they have General motors behind them. Which would break the monopoly the big teams have over the teams.
@@SD-mi2vc Because its ridiculous? Unless the stand is never let anyone in any new team is doing to have influence and backing if it's going to actually survive. If there is no desire to expand the grid then just say.
@@Meodread thats what i am saying
I remember Jules Bianchi finishing on the points back in the day, what an achievement
In Monaco, saddest F1 story
Imagine a Bianchi/Leclerc line-up at Ferrari. That would have been brilliant!
@@alexpeak16 that’s double depression considering what Ferrari is giving Charles rn 😢
@@alexpeak16 it would unfortunately be a brilliant way to waste two top talents of the sport 😢
@@milol.akkaraprud8681 yes. Leclerc gonna scream "NOOOOOOOO" again.
As an American I remember how Speed channel hyped up USF1 just for it to fall flat on it's face. I think that really hurt Peter Windsor for a long time. He was the on track reporter for Speed channel F1 for long time before that and it seemed he literally disappeared for a few years after that team failed.
Idk why but it kinda made me cringe when the commentators back in 2010 were hyping those teams so hard as if they’d be the next Ferrari or Brawn GP
personally I wish it could've happened with Marussia, they had a nice unique aesthetic and position as the only Russian team, I have no idea what would've happened if they were still in the sport right now though.
@@zs979 they’d probably be invading a Ukrainian F1 team
@@zs979 not like it would've help them in the long run but they were really unlucky in 2011-2012. Caterham/Lotus, on the other hand, didn't capitalized on their early success at all.
@@zs979 no thanks on russian teams/drivers anything ,better off without them.
@@ierbutza21 L
What the video didn't mention: Ferrari back in 2009 did everything they could to prevent the cost cap from taking effect, even got other then current teams onboard, and they got their way eventually. Hence if you ask me, this was the reason why there is a large gap between teams back in 2010. Had 2010 had a cost cap, things might have played out differently favoring the new teams.
Cruel irony given Ferrari has agreed to cost capping from 2021 onwards.
@@WhiteG60 that would be definitely q cool but top teams defo reject that 😭. The current cost cap still doesn't make the field completely equal since ferrari red bull mercedes have better facilities and full dyno testing. So that 2 tiers is a cool concept defo
@@javierplays9516 RB/Mercedes/Ferrari would still spend 500 million a year, as if they are 1 second or 2 seconds faster than the rest, that benefits for the others do not matter at all.
@@christian9125abd true which is why i still prefer the current cost cap. But nothing the FIA will do can change the top 3 anyway, the top 3 will always be ferrari mercedes red bull, except for one off years or a slow decline (rip mclaren & williams)
@@javierplays9516 Aston seems the have entered the top 3. and ferrari is slowly declining, unlike RB and Merc they have no consistency.
@@christian9125abd "except for one off years". While ppl like to troll on ferrari they never rlly declined recently, they hv js been not making use of their package. In the past decade they finished in the top 3 ignoring 2014 & 2020. But they have up & down seasons ur right its never stable
HRT's Best Result was actually 13th during the 2011 Canadian GP.
Imagine if AARAVA ARCHER RACING F1 entered the real life championship like HRT.
@@purwantiallan5089 why are you being allowed online without parental supervision?
@@purwantiallan5089 I don't understand...what?
What’s ironic is now, with the hard budget cap in place, relative parity with engines, and rules on aerodynamic testing/wind tunnel, now “would be” the time for these teams to come back from the dead……
I'll never forget the images of Bianchi's #17 Manor sitting in the pit box post Japan, 'waiting' for his return after his crash. Still have an F1 car in Forza Motorsport, with his livery, as a tribute.
Year 14 of waiting for Stefan GP on the grid.
I haven’t given up yet. 2026 will be his year 😊
@@sloppynyuszi could be Panthera Team Asia
Actually, it's year 26/7, considering they first wanted to get into F1 back in 1996, and then to "replace" MasterCard Lola's entry for the 1998 season- 💀
Would you miss Sauber?
@@LSchelvin71 yes. Have u watched clips from GRAN TURISMO 5 UNSEEN yet? Its in my channel.
I was gutted to watch Manor fold. They'd really shown astonishing competence in their later years and that points finish for Bianchi at Monaco was just a joyous moment for all involved. Neither driver nor team got the prosperous future they deserved. Also, it's astonishing how much prices went up in F1 from the 90s. In 1991 there were still multiple teams circulating that had budgets well under 10m. Not _good_ teams, mind, but nevertheless.
This is great info for newer fans.
One thing that Liberty media did well was stabilize the grid. Williams, for a time, looked shaky but we have 10 set teams, and potentially 1 or 2 more coming soon. The sport, financially, is in a lot healthier shape than it was not long ago.
this is true
It will get very spicey once the current boom turns to bust, probably caused by too much of a good thing
@@wiegraf9009 classic wiegraf. good to see another FF Tactics named person though lol. tell your sister whaddup
@@atkascha Thanks, but I guess I'll have to do it in the next life 😭
@@atkascha Atkascha, have u watched clips in GRAN TURISMO 5 UNSEEN? It is in my channel. One of them featured clips about the announcement of Setsuna's new CV.
As an ex-Cosworth engineer, I got the opportunity to work in the big circus between 2010-2014, and the issues were merely money and I&D (no wind tunnel and most of the parts and development were required by an external partner.
Excellent video from “Straws’s back marker corner” 💪😊. Please do continue Edd, your knowledge and care for the back markers is inexhaustible. Cheers.
Given the insane value of teams now and the fight to get new teams on the grid, crazy to think that it was only a few years ago that Manor just collapsed and disappeared
Good memories of starting my F1 career at Virgin in F1 2010,with the highlight of the season being scoring an unlikely podium in the wet in Turkey
Read your comment and Ian Brown's FEAR randomly started playing in my head 🙂
Haha bruh, I remember staring a 2010 drivers career and I managed to score 1 win in China... Thanks to delaying my pit stop until only 7 laps remained... And it started to rain xD
We still calling Peter Windsor a respected journalist? He spent years trying to tell people Rich Energy are the next big thing for F1 and looks like he is just making up gossip that planetf1 regurgitates.
This is undoubtedly the craziest of them all. Wish we could see those independent teams back in F1 sometime.
I always thought McLaren should have bought Caterham or Manor for 2015, stuck the honda engine in it for two years to give it the chance to develop. Much like RB did with Toro Rosso in 2019
*2018
Great stuff we need more content like this to tie us over between races👌
Max and Bernie the dynamic duo.. ruthless and and clever
I loved these teams, even though they were slow. Any time they'd get into Q2, I would celebrate. I feel profoundly sad that Manor didn't make it when they were finally getting in the mix.
Yeah, it was quite painful to see Manor leave at the end of 2016, especially since they were actually able to challenge for points on occasion, quite comparable to Williams in the last few years. If they would've been able to hold out for a few more years, I think we might still have had 11 teams on the grid.
Sadly the other teams were more than happy to see Manor go as they would gain more revenue if there was less teams.
I like the idea of more technical freedom on a tighter budget... pit money vs ingenuity and see who wins is an interesting concept in it's own right.
Its not prohibitively difficult.. its prohibitively expensive.. an important distinction.
I feel like there needs to be a space in motorsport for teams of this scale to be able to setup and compete with their own design and built cars without being embarrassed by the established F1 teams. Imagine a series of around 12 races in Europe (maybe a couple in the Middle East) including tracks that have fallen from the F1 schedule (like Hockenheim, Nurburgring, Istanbul, etc...) with teams of a budget cap of around $25million to design and build their own chassis (with affordable spec engine and basic hybrid system). Likely the series would run in companion with other non-F1 series like DTM or ELMS. This "EuroGP" series could act as a development series for drivers (e.g. F1 reserve drivers and those stuck between F2 and F1), potential new teams that could ultimately prove themselves worthy of upscaling to F1, and an outlet for dropped circuits in European heartlands.
Now's who's gonna pay for it
I think the idea could be alright, but, no one's gonna pay for it. Most of those tracks "forgotten" by F1 still have important junior series, local championships and even international races (mostly sportscars) going around so it's not like people forgot about them, and all of those drivers "stuck" between F2 and F1 have many options to go to if they're good enough, and the ones that don't, well, maybe they weren't good enough.
Really interesting video. Love learning about smaller teams in the past.
In 1994 or 1995 I was part of a tour of the Pacific F1 team. The area smelt of burnt materials. Their transporter had caught fire in the Mont Blanc Tunnel. It was an interesting tour and informative. I was also able to have a visit to the Lola factory when they were doing well in the USA which was well before they tried to do F1 in 1997. At one stage I also had a tour through the Minardi factory, again another interesting visit.
I hope with cost cap and F1 being really profitable we get new teams. 20 cars are just a bit to few.
It is too few.
Since, by the rules, in order to have a pre Qualify again, you need more than 26 cars. The most that Formula 1 has gone to (and on this, I'm being slyly ironic) is the 24 we've seen.
they will make even bigger cars than now to compensate that
I dream.of the day we have a legitimate 26 car field.
It’s a shame what happened to the three teams, but Manor in particularly is a sad story. Even without the tragedy of what happened to Jules, it honestly looked like things were starting to improve for them in 2016 with the most competitive car they had produced, and then all of a sudden it was gone
I used to keep hoping, hoping, hoping Lotus Racing/Team lotus/Caterham would score a point and I was a Heikki Kovalainen fan too. I would be glued to every qualifying session and celebrate whenever Heikki Kovalainen reached Q2 in the dry (Spain 2011 a big one). I was always overly optimistic every time the team brought upgrades and then left with disappointment when they ended up in no man's land behind the midfield and in front of Virgin/Marussia and HRT. 2013 and 2014 were just so disappointing but I can't help but romanticise those days where I was obsessed with the underdogs (while besides Kovalainen, also being a big Hamilton and Heidfeld fan and a growing Hulkenberg and Kobayashi fan at the time).
This comment was actually a huge throwback to me. I remember that in Finland, news outlets and those "Pre-Season Magazines" were hardcore coping with how Lotus/Caterham was finally gonna get points that year and that Lotus/Caterham's package somehow looked stronger than previous year's. I even remember Heikki saying in an interview for one of those magazines that points and podiums could be possible in a few years if the car development advances as it does. Only for Caterham to never score points and Heikki losing his race seat :/ it is really unfortunate, as he apparently declined other race seats (presumably Sauber or Williams) for Lotus, because he believed in their project.
Some very interesting points made here and stuff I didn't even know about.
Lotus or Caterham had a sensible budget and so did at the time Virgin. However Virgin pulled the plug quite quickly and I have often heard Tony Fernandes would wake up in the morning and feel and say that he wanted out of F1 and then the next day he he would say he was committed to the cause. HRT tried to do it right by working with Dallera but never really found suitable budgets to compete. Sad really, lets hope they let Andretti in because they do seem to have the budget and if they go about it the right way they can be competitive.
Manor looked like they could have been a midfield team by now if they could have survived. There was potential there.
That lotus name was so confusing
Yep 😂😂
Love to see a video on Stewart gp.
very cool video! would love one about Toyota and Honda F1 teams
Toyota had a very healthy budget but the team was, apparently, run by a commitee which could not react to the challenges.
disgraceful that F1 can't be much cheaper and allow for 13+ teams with lower startup and operating costs
Marussia could have survive, had it not been (Sauber) Nasr's points finish at Brazil. Ironically, the points finish also cost Nasr his seat and he would have better off crashing out.
Yeah your'e right
Am I right in thinking the story is that Sauber would likely have gone bust had it not been for that points finish at the 2016 Brazilian Grand Prix?
@@chlcrk If I remember correctly, Sauber hardly had any funding in the first half of '16 but they had new Swedish owners in the second half (linked with Ericsson) that pumped a bit more cash in. At the time, Sauber were probably the least credible team on the grid; a dreadful 2014 not helped by a bad driver lineup. and the mess of having three drivers for two cars in '15. My understanding is that if Manor stayed around for '17, Nasr would have driven for them.
They were setup to fail, mostly due to the existing big fish teams manipulating the rules in their own favor.
The promised cost cap never materialized
Cheaper Cosworth engines didn't get the development they needed
And the teams needed to score points and finish in the top 10 to secure funding from F1's revenue, which meant that functionally only 1 of the 3 new teams would get any F1 prize money despite racing for the entire year.
So the minnows had to rely entirely on sponsors and merch to survive, and given their low overall performance and high operating costs of F1 made this a nearly impossible task.
So the minnow teams went into F1 which their legs cutout from underneath them and having to fight among each other for the scraps of 10th place in the championship
Ultimately Jules Bianchi's results in Manor/Murussia were the only thing that kept the team afloat as long as they did.
So why did Haas succeed while these 4 times collapsed?
Haas ironically took the approach that HRT should have, leveraging Dallara to make their chassis in Italy proving that could work. Meanwhile beg/borrowing/stealing every part of the Ferrari car they could get their hands on to save on development costs. But the key factor for Haas was that with only 10 teams on the grid they would be guaranteed F1 prize money so long as they scored at least 1 point in the year.
The only way F1 can sustain more than 10 teams moving forward is by agreeing to split the prize pool with the smaller teams and maintaining the cost cap.
The recent arguments over Andretti kinda prove this point, as the bigger teams (mostly Toto and Mercedes) don't want to split the prize pool.
Does Lotus use the chassis from 2009 toyota? both cars look very equal.
It was a beautiful time to watch F1 Despite I was broke and life was hard as F. I enjoy it this F1 more than ever until 2013 It was good for me since 99 until 2013 That was the last season I really enjoy it. And I am an Alonso fan.
In hindsight, all three teams pooling their resources as one entry might have been an interesting experiment. Reduce competition among themselves and fight Sauber for the points.
Manor will always be in my heart
Its crasy how all these teams got betrayed by f1
Now you can't even add new team ...want so much money like robbing you first.
may jules rest in paradise. much love
I loved that Virgin Racing livery
Not incredibly ugly like 2010-11 Hispania, and on par with green Lotus/Caterham
Lotus BRG and gold is 🔥🔥🔥
current 10 teams with better sponsors and more engine choices would be nice
2010 was my first year watching, that Lotus was the best looking car in the field that season, IMO. In terms of bodywork anyway.
That 2012 marrusia livery was on point
So we're now seeing what happened in 2010 basically, new teams are trying their best to get into F1 as it grows, FIA after some thinking agrees with the new teams, but already existing teams are blocking the ability for the new teams to join or compete.
HRT never failed, they just gave other teams a small chance to shine.
Max Mosley initially wanted Cosworth to supply the whole grid with engines to keep costs down. Of course, neither Ferrari, Mercedes or Renault (or BMW then) would accept that even if they could take up the blueprints and make it themselves. One way to pressure them could have been to make Cosworth manditory for all other teams (imagine McLaren, Williams, Red Bull, Toro Rosso all using Cosworth along with Lotus, HRT and Manor) but would have actually helped bring costs down while Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault would havd gone up. Spending more doesn't help when your costs go up.
1- FIA rules and rules mishaps (promising a cost cap that never came, forcing them to use Cosworth which ruled out structures such as Epsilon or Prodrive who were more than prepared for F1 while allowing other like Campos Meta or USF1 who were total lolcows)
2- Prize money not being enough for them to grow into the midfield
3- HRT: Total mess. When José Ramón Carabante bought the team from Adrián Campos to rename it Hispania, literally nothing was built: no facilities, no car, no drivers. They went truly against the clock to get to Bahrain, and even then they didn't get to drive the Dallara built chassis until FP3, without any preseason testing. And over the three seasons they raced, they were simply fighting to survive without any hope to even get into the midfield due to them never having money. And their drivers didn't help
4- Virgin: Lack of stability. They had an innovative approach that failed in 2010, and then Sir Richard Branson got tired and left. After that, even with competent personnel and solid drivers for the most part (Glock, Bianchi, Merhi, Wehrlein), they had to deal with a lot of crap until they simply just couldn't and were forced to close after finishing last in 2016. Could've been a good team if they had been given a better chance
4- Lotus/Caterham: lack of stability. They started pretty good, and looked like the one team that would stay in F1 for a long time; but once the team name was changed everything fell apart: couldn't even beat Marussia in 13 and 14, barely did so in 2012, and drivers were good for the most part but everything else wasn't. Just like Virgin, they could've been a good team if they had been giving a better chance
Overall it was a mix of the FIA just putting teams on the grid to be bottom feeders and the teams themselves either not having enough money, not being well run or both. The good thing is that at least they learned from their mistake and when they opened bids again in the mid 2010s and most recently in the early 2020s they have not only made sure that the new teams have enough freedom and capital to be more than bottom feeders but also that they're solid structures who won't fold within a couple of years.
Was it really 13 years ago? wow
Can we get videos about the GPMA and FOTA threatened breakaways?
Another interesting story is when Ferrari built a Champcar to race in the USA. I've seen pictures of the completed car.
This kind of content is keeping me going till baku
I was sad at the push back at having new teams. With F1's desire to be exciting you would think they would jump at new teams and ignore what the current teams wanted. Not like they are going to leave. They are too invested.
It could be seen as a smaller number of quality teams in the grid compared to letting teams in that don't really belong. In the past there have been teams like Andrea Moda (should have never been allowed) and Life.
@@simonkevnorris How are you going to have quality teams if no one gets a chance. Maybe the format could be more like a football league you start in F2 and earn enough points to go to F1.
@@MrBashem There is no point having more teams if those teams are 5 seconds off the pace.
I love how they let a scam team join in 2010 but won’t let one of the most historic American teams in Andretti join now
First factor was bootstrapping them to the Cozzies
Second was the promise of cost caps and then it not happening
Caterham individually failed because all the legal issues Tony Fernandes had along with his other interests(LOLQPRLOL) meant they were underfunded and ultimately weak
HRT couldn't get sponsors to save their life, and trusting Colin fucking Kolles to run anything more than a bath is a bad idea.
Manor had a brighter plan than the other 2, but IMO Jules' ultimately fatal injury knocked them completely out of momentum
I did enjoy 06 and 2010 because of the new teams
I wonder what would happen now if 3 new teams join with the cost cap
Simple: If you don't have access to a huge budget and a wealthy owner with lots of patience don't even think about entering F1.
F1 should put as many cars on the grid as possible. At 2010 they told me 13 teams/26 cars was the maximum. I can't believe Teams have a monopoly to block newcomers. How can you have a world championship in sports if you deny acces to the worlds participants. As a huge f1 fan i want more teams. Welcome Andretti/Audi/Porshe?.
Way back around 1990 (the first full season I watched on TV) I vaguely remember there were more cars than grid slots so it was actually possible to fail to qualify (30 cars competing for 26 slots)
@@ZoeMalDoran true some teams never passed qually or rarely did .
In my opinion, if there was another influx of teams during this era with the budget cap, they would probably have a much better fate.
Absolutely ridiculous! They basically got ripped-off. Very frustrating...
Imagine how much value this teams would have now
Before clicking on the video, I had a feeling Edd Straw would be doing this video. Know you too well Edd!
Can you do "where are the F1 drivers now?
Like what's Yuji Ide doing now?
Doesn’t help that the existing F1 team will gatekeep anyone from even daring to enter their little club because it’s less prize money for them
F1 cartel ruined a chance for a new hope
David Coulthard knew this would happen when he said the teams thought, "oh, discount to get into F1." Disaster from the beginning. All they did was damage the sport
As d rules says if a new team wants to enter it has to pay $100 million but what if a team comes today in 2023 n says it bought HRT or Catherine or Manor Racing factory or its facilities does it still has to pay anything to enter or not ...
They still do
As what happened when Phoenix Finance *tried* to bullhorn their way onto the grid after buying Prost GP's assets without buying the entry
@@MrBlazemaster525 sorry but I'm not aware of that as I do not have much knowledge about that Era of F1 or prior to that...
@@asifrangooni okay, I'll put it this way then
You can buy the schoolbooks and the uniforms but if you're not the one enrolled you can't go into the class
@@MrBlazemaster525 thanks for making it that easy ...👍🏻👍🏻
6:02 happy car nose face!
What about F1 Division 1 and Division 2 (like in football)? If you consistently win in D2, you get promoted to D1 (and don’t perform in D1, you get dropped).
my question is why is hitech gp preparing an f1 project? if any team was in a position to graduate to f1 it isn't them
I was a big fan of Lotus/Caterham. They felt like a team with a soul, like jordan. Sad to see what happened to them.
HRT being the last team to survive was a shock they were always the most shit of the 3.
The only Indian auto company involved in F1 was Tata motors,part of HRT F1 Team from 2011 till HRT folded up.
USF1 ??? Nowhere on grid and the same goes to StefanF1 . Bernie did not want him on the grid
It is worth noting Manor Actually built a mock up of 2017 car
amazing how ugly the cars were in that period, with those wide snow plow wings at the front and the horrid narrow ones at the back
How much money would it have taken to keep Manor on the grid? Surely far less than the present price to buy/start an F1 team. Real missed opportunity.
The fact that Manor was left to die at the end of 2016 is a disgrace to F1. The other teams seeing the opportunity to gain more revenue were more than happy to see the team go.
I would like to see Prema make the step up
wasn't kimi at lotus and wasn't he really good?
Different lotus
This is where things get confusing.
There was Team Lotus. They were owned by the car company. They have been out of Formula One for a LONG time.
Like you mentioned, there was a Lotus F1 team that was actually just owned by a company that owned the Lotus naming rights. That team is now the Renault/Alpine team when they took a hiatus. They had Kimi and also Grosjean who both had podiums for the team.
Then there was Caterham who was just sponsored by Lotus in 2010. That's this team. That relationship was a disaster and ended up in numerous lawsuits.
kimi raced for the enstone team (toleman, bennetton, renault, lotus, alpine)
Kimi's Lotus was golden, the backmarker one was green
@@juanin200 but they were at the same time?
Something they did know, was how to do great liveries
Felipe Nasr destroyed Manor and ironically his career by finishing 9th at the 2016 Brazilian GP. Until that time, Sauber has never scored point, behind Manor.
have you ever thought... had sauber finished last in f1 2016 would manor still existed today??
I miss manor
I miss the true backmarkers
I love how F1 has the opportunity to improve on this with Andretti and Cadillac and create an amazing team for the sport, but they just won't let them in because it might take a few bucks from the other teams. Come ON guys
They still 50:50, just wait till 30 april & 30 june
@@LSchelvin71 Fair, we'll see
Andretti will join the grid a long way behind the established teams, and will be operating in about the same ball park as Haas.
After a couple of years, Yanks will be writing them off, and asking for a new "proper American" team.
If points went down to 15th, these teams would at least having something to show for it
2014 Marussia and Caterham
HAAS opposed Andretti, and is the Marussia of the era
That's a ludicrous statement. To put haas on the level of marrisua is laughable. If andretti were to join F1, they would struggle to replicate the success Haas jave had.
Wait, did we almost lose Sauber before the start of 2010?
It was quite bad for sure. They had lost their Main sponsor and engine supplier - BMW and both of their drivers (Kubica and Heidfeld) with team principal Mario Theissen also departing. So, it was quite abysmal. But because of Ferrari's engine and Peter Sauber's money, they implemented a new management led by Monisha Kaltenborn
Just a Cozzie…. And 30 million? Got the Cozzie
F1 & FIA promised the new teams certain things. Then pulled the UNO reverse card on them and left them hanging. No fair at all to the teams.
All teams failed? What about Mercedes that re-entered in 2010? And yes you have to count that, as you also counted the re-entering of Lotus.
Those 3 were fresh entries vis-a-vis Merc buying out Brawn
Narrowest of margins? Countback?
Wherlin finished 10th and scored 1 point at the Austrian GP.
Nasr finished 9th and scored 2 points at the Brazilian GP.
Which means, Sauber beat Manor by 1 point.
The real reason is that none of the new teams was the mighty Stefan GP. Folks are just afraid to admit it!