Cowherd: LeBron James is the most complete player, ever | THE HERD
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2016
- Colin Cowherd weighs in on LeBron James. Is he the most complete basketball player we've ever seen?
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The Herd with Colin Cowherd is a three-hour sports television and radio show on FS1 and iHeartRadio. Every day, Colin will give you his authentic, unfiltered opinion on the day’s biggest sports topics, and co-host Kristine Leahy will bring you the latest breaking sports news.
Cowherd: LeBron James is the most complete player, ever | THE HERD
• Cowherd: LeBron James ...
The Herd with Colin Cowherd:
/ colincowherd - Sport
it's OK when LeBron retires you will desperately be seeking a guy who can do what he does. then and only then will people truly understand what we are watching.
Kemit Trill exactly bro. It's sad that people won't just accept and admire his greatness now before he retires
It's not that people don't appreciate his greatness the problem arises when people say he's better than Jordan and ready to anoint him as GOAT.
Kemit Trill lebron is definitely like top 3 all time
+suntansuperman26 How is that a problem? Nobody complained half as much when Kobe was anointed.
suntansuperman26
no one can match jordans career it was just way too story book. But when we people speak strictly from a tangible basketball perspective. A very viable argument can be made that Lebron is the GOAT. Besides scoring, there really isnt anything Jordan does better.
i want to see him argue with skip about this
jtmck06 you can't argue with skip as long as the conversation threatens MJ or the Spurs
but it would still be fun to watch
Tom-Tom Schatz or tebow
YES
In truth, who would want to argue w/ an IDIOT !!!! Skip Brainless is the dumbest hater i've ever seen, & M so glad he left "First Take" coz i like watchn Stephen A Smith, but since I couldn't stand Brainless, i'd refrain from watching the said show.
And change the culture of an entire city
facts AF
Cliff Paul W
except for the Browns ahahhaha
'' A big cant dribble and a little guy cant rebound....HE CAN DO BOTH '' thats sums it up.
exactly
W.C. IV he folds under pressure doe
3peats not in recent years.
Gerome Smith then what happened in the 2015 finals in game 1 and 2 when he missed the go ahead game winner.
Gerome Smith thanks to him missing that game 1 shot, kyrie got hurt in overtime
Lebron could get a triple double every game if he wanted to
Russell Westbrook definitely could!
+Andrew Goering no
+mvp Harden neither could lebron
Andrew Goering Not as easily as LeBron. LeBron can coast and have 23/11/9.
Disappointed Knick's Fan which is exactly what he's doing so far this year...it's unbelievable
Lebron could walk on water and you people would still be like....."Well......he walked too slow"😂😂. It's at the point that its second nature for y'all to hate him NO MATTER WHAT. "He's not clutch".....blocks Igoudala when it MATTERS. Do y'all remember what he did season before last? With NOOOOOBODY to help. Avg. like 36 points, 40+ minutes. And ALMOST singlehandedly beat GS (and I don't give a s--t he should've won finals MVP). Went back home and have Cleveland a ring. Jesus.....WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT HIM TO DO. Get out of your feelings and take the tampons out.
IzmSkizm1 If only everyone was as smart as you
King Of 2K thx bruh. It just pisses me off with the double standard with Lebron. Ppl need to give credit when it's due. Great is great. No matter who the player. The guy has had a hall of fame career and he's not even done. It's crazy.
IzmSkizm1 ya but u lebron fans actually think he could walk on water
when he loses he had no help when he wins its because he made his team better .this is the logic of lebron fanboys. what more can he do ? simple you want to be bigger than Jordan how about dominating the leauge like Jordan.
Elijah arvinger Every time he lost he has no help, except for 2011. That one was on him. But it's been proven when he has help, he's unstoppable. Look at 2015 finals. No help but still dominated the finals like no one before. Everyone needs help. Especially the greats of all time. Without the pieces around them that they had, they wouldn't have built a legacy like they did
Agreed Colin but the sad thing is most people will realise how valuable lebron is to the NBA once he retires.
People are starting to wake up to the fact of how good LeBron is. Jordan was nowhere near the overall player LeBron is. That's a fact.
arman1261 yeah you never watched MJ because you are too young
Caleb Burgess are you kidding? I grew up idolizing Jordan like most kids. LeBron is just better
arman1261 he's definetly not, LeBrons achievements are great, but MJ is a better basketball player by far. LeBron has his athleticism and passing, and not much more. and if LeBron played against the competition MJ did, then he might have 1 ring
Caleb Burgess watch the guards Jordan went against in the 90s. They were skinny and not very athletic. LeBron would pick the 90s apart. He's too athletic and too strong for anyone back then to stop him. The absence of zone defense would also heavily favor LeBron.
Caleb Burgess handchecking wouldn't phase LeBron. Players literally hug him and he still finishes. Meanwhile you couldn't even breathe on Jordan without being called for a foul. Just ask magic Johnson. Jordan also shot more freethrows per game than LeBron.
I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY THIS FOREVER. FORGET RINGS, AND THE PLAYOFFS. WE DEBATE WHO IS THE BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER NOT NBA TALENT. LEBRON IS THE MOST COMPLETE AND BEST BASKETBALL PLAYER OF ALL TIME
Well, definitely not of all time.... It's seems that way because you kids didn't grow up watching the greatest legends of basketball from earlier decades..... LeBron, however, is absolutely the greatest of this era.. for sure!
but there are still a few above him overall..
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
3. Wilt Chamberlain
4. Kobe
also maybe
5. Julius Erving
6. Oscar Robertson
Tajmir B lebron folds under pressure and jordan elevates his game under pressures
3peats did LeBron fold down 3-1 to one of the statistically greatest team of all time?
lebron folds under pressure? he´s got as many walk off game winners in playoffs than your idol jordan, he´s got the best record ever in elimination games, he´s got the best statline ever in game 7s. it doesnt get more important than elimination games and game 7s, and he is outperforming your boy jordan in both.
Tajmir B you're high
Been saying this for a while :
Things Jordan better at than Lebron : MidRange Shooting , Stealing , Clutch , 1 on 1 Defending
Things Lebron better at than Jordan : Paint , 3 points (check their Percentage) , Scoring (Effective Percentage) , Passing , Facilitating , Getting everyone involved ,Rebounding , Defending at all position , Leading , Blocking and many more .
and check their teammates as well .
Jordan had Best Defensive Small Forward of all time and 3rd best small Forward ever (Scotie ) , Best Rebounder ever (Rodman ) , Greatest effective 3 point shooter ever (Steve Kerr ) , 2nd best 6th Men of that time (Kukoc) .
Best thing Lebron had is a top50 all time player Wade , who missed out a lots of Playoffs games and vanished in 14' FINALS .
Put them in the opposite teams : Jordan's record will be 3-3 , and Lebron's would've been 6-1 .
And btw , Lebron has beaten a 73 wins Super teams , Jordan couldn't pass Celtics , Pistons untill they were old and injured
If Lebron was given the leeway that MJ was given, he would easily best him in one on one defense.
McGiggiti not only that but jordan was Gaurded by scrubs who where smaller and he could jump over to take a jumpshot easily. lebron is nearly better then everything then Jordan and is by far a better basketball player
Tell me where the greatest rebounder of all time in the 97 and 98 nba finals, tell me where greatest effective shooter of all time in kerr was in 96, 97, 98 nba finals, tell me where pippen was in 96 and 98 nba finals those guys vanished faster than wade ever could. A vanished wade is better than any player iverson played with in 01 finals, but yet lebron james lost to the spurs by 14 points a game margin, worst in nba finals history. 99 knicks didn't get blown out that badly, nor did magic in 09, or b2b kidd nets. Lebron owns the worse nba finals defeat in nba history. And if we are being honest wade is better than pippen. Plus how does blocking make lebron a better player than jordan?? Whats next, we are going to say jordan is better at dribbling with his off hand??? Blocking is not some major skill than lebron has. Nor is defending all positions, he was getting cooked by david west in the post 2014 ECF. Leading??? Thats not a tranferable skill on the ball court, and he did such a great job of leading bosh and klove.
lebron has a better 3p% than kobe. doesnt make him the better 3p shooter. not disagreeing with you in the points your making, just that 3p% can be misleading.
seriouslyfuckutube Exactly kobe took toughest shots in nba history, jordan and kobe didn't give af about efficency, lebron would never take a half court shot because he don't want to lower his efficency meanwhile jordan and kobe would not care. Jordan and kobe took way more career midrange shots.
I really want this guy to shut skip bayless down
Finally a video to show that lebron is the best all around player ever
zcoolboy3o3 how can a player be the best ever if he folds during crunch time?
3peats He said best all around.....
+3peats guess you didn't watch the last two finals where he led both teams in points rebounds and assist never been done before and he's done it two years in a row
+3peats He did it once out of 7xs but I guess that helps ease your mind though.
Aaron Mcclure wheres that during clutch time?
he never said lebron is better than Jordan.. just that lebron have attributes he do better than jordan.. for example, steph curry can shoot 3's better than mj, but steph isn't greater tham mj
Alshane Moore most people hear MJ & LeBron the imagination run loose that's one comparison starts happening well I'm not listening to what Colin is saying
Alshane Moore most people hear MJ & LeBron the imagination run loose that's one comparison starts happening well I'm not listening to what Colin is saying
LBJ is the greatest all around player but not the Greatest player
Alshane Moore he shoulda stated that jordan was still better
Alshane Moore Jordan fan boys can't see that though. whenever someone praises LeBron they get mad and think the person saying LeBron better than Jordan.
this one smart dude colin cowherd for president!!!!
At this point anyone can be president...
Sly snoop?
Harambe for president
Man, this guy REALLY has a man crush on LeBron.
Yeah but we all have that one player we're unable to see the flaws in, right? For a lot of people it's MJ, Colin's player just happens to be Lebron.
Harry Garris You know what? I completely agree with you. Lol
the thing is no ones ever cleared his name and he's just bringing facts to the light so everyone can notice these things
no one ever credits him so he's the one that has to do it all the time
Ahmad Williams forreal
Will the Cavaliers win the title this year?
YES
-coming from a raps fan
yes sir
Colin Cowherd Thank you for this. My opinion Lebron is the greatest player ever and when he retires will have the greatest career ever.
Colin Cowherd Who was the top 4 players under Jordan in his prime? Jordans competition was weaker than Lebron? All the teams he faced couldn't score at an elite level other than the suns and they had Kevin Johnson guarding Jordan lol.
+Desmond Davis LeBron is a GOAT in his own right, but MJ is definitely THE GOAT. Don't disrespect him like that. Different eras, different rules.
Bron is the 🐐🐐🐐 if he repeats it would be solidified
mr2seven6 meh....just beat kd'curry nothing nobody can say.
If he wins 5 he can be in the discussion
LeBron could average as many points a MJ if he wanted to, there is no one who can stop him getting to the rim.
Eric Legend there's this guy named kahwi...
Angelo McGowen who's that?
Eric Legend nobody?? Check his stats when being guarded by Iguodala in the finals. Lebron not as dominant as you believe.
it's all hype and today's basketball public is being conned
+spiderman4677 it wasn't just iggy guarding him. Help defense and bogut. When bogut was out he destroyed iggy.
Michael Jordan didn't handle the ball like LeBron. You're right, he handled it better.
Joao Martins NO
Handling as in not only dribbling
He means spread the ball around, not actual handles
Joao Martins Luv MJ but i got to disagree on that on. MJ is a better triple threat on first step dribble pass bye opponent because he can shoot great
LeBron's first step out of the triple threat is lethal. Come on man.
As a Kobe Fanboy these Are Facts.
LeBron is the best All Around Player of All time
Jordan was the most amazing athlete under pressure, incredible
Nice.😎
cowherd not always right, but this is the truth about L.J.
Wilt Chamberlain led the league in assists in 68, and is one of the 5 best scorers, rebounders, and outlet passers of all time. And he's one of the 10 best interior defenders ever. Regardless of what era you put him in. Stop disrespecting Wilt
And I don't really think the talent LeBron has played night after night throughout his career(Melo, KD, Kawhi, Paul George, Paul Pierce, Metta) is that much better than the guys Wilt's played night after night(Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Willis Reed, Kareem). I don't really think it's better at all, especially considering that Wilt was playing those guys much more often because of the smaller league. More than half of LeBron's season is padded with subpar small forwards to play against. Wilt was going up against Russell 8-20 times a season if you include the post season.
Noor Faruqi What rules from that time were present that allowed him to dominate? And, you can't ask what a player from today would do then. Because, they're a product of modern training, and equipment, and techniques... you can only extrapolate upon what an older player would benefit/suffer from today
Ray Petree all u clowns saying wilt wouldn't be great today....the guy is 7 foot 1 a trackstar with a 42 inch vertical and was strong as an ox, put the guy in todays nba he would average 30 ppg 15 rpg and 4 bpg and 4-5 apg....think about this 6 foot 7 draymond green plays centre in todays nba and more then holds his own
Best scorer ever but he's not complete like Lebron. Dunno how you can actually dispute that.
fc_jwhy How is he not? LeBron isn't the better rebounder or defender. And not that I think Wilt is a better passer, but it isnt like LeBron's ever led the league in total assists either.
People say MJ > LeBron because of Achievements. Stop comparing based on Achievements and start with what they bring to the team and court. Is like saying Mo Williams > Allen Iverson, CP3, Melo because he won a ring and they didn't -.- For me, give me LeBron anyday over Jordan, no disrespect!
Tiago Almeida Again, there you go with achievements! LeBron carried the worst team in NBA to playoffs, and makes everyone around him better!
gerizzyYMcrew No, Jordan always had another star with him on the team...LeBron was the ONLY star when he took em to playoffs
gerizzyYMcrew OMG!!! ugh. I talking about before he left for MIAMI!!! LOL
gerizzyYMcrew oh now you wanna call names??? And no mike didn't only play with one superstar his entire career, you must be trolling or don't know what a superstar is. My argument was never about MJ superstar team or not, but LeBron playing ALONE and still made it to the playoffs, but the Celtics Big 3 always beat him (the only team that stops LeBron from going to Finals), and he had to leave and form with Wade and Bosh to specifically take out the Celtics - going to Miami was a better choice cause they had more talent than Cavs back then.
gerizzyYMcrew Dennis Roadman...I don't know if you wanna add steve kerr...Hecks no
Man this dude love Lebron like DJAkademiks love Drake
"Magic can't rebound like Lebron" They both average 7.2 RPG for their career.
Chief Sosa lol
Chief Sosa son b chattin sometimes
The difference is, LeBron averages 9,5 RPG in Playoffs while Magic averages 7,7.
Magic was way above average on height. Obviously he can out rebound point guards. Magic is taller than LeBron at 6'9.
Plus Magic was a 6'9 PG not SF
Wow the best ever LeBron James
Colin you need to get Skip on your show. Topic: Lebron James... Let's Go!!!
Doc Killa A agree. that Skip is so LeBron hater
only thing james can't do is get skip off his helmet ...........
trouble follows I swear
Spot on
'94 Hakeem Olajuwon was the most complete player that ever played.
Jeff Ladrillono offensively
Dcage Pcutta dude was a solid rebounder and shot blocker as well son
Dcage Pcutta He was the league MVP and the defensive player of the year in '94.
***** That happened all the time with the 90's Bulls. Scottie Pippen got the 1/2 court offense started, not John Paxon or Ron Harper.
Jeff Ladrillono im not disputing that. im saying it still doesnt amount to brons all around game.
preach brother
The finals open up his eyes when he said the old lebron will not dunk as much block as much he just ain't going to do and in the finals you seen he did all of that at age 30 that is greatiness
Wish folks stop equating a last shot to the only means of clutch because its not.
the more i listen to this gentle man,i realize he dont know much about sports
If Lebron had for Scottie Pippen 10 years like Jordan every record in the book would be Lebron's.
James Avant who would hit the clutch shots for lebron tho?
yeah pretty much thats unfair
3peats Lebron can pickup a John Paxson like Jordan did.
Hahaha so wasnt playing on multiple superteams in wnba east is not enough. Pippen was nothing more like green of warriors ,mj did everything himself not like lechoke who couldnt won on its own needed 3 allstars and a truckload of exceptional role players to win.
Avengers X2323 did you said that pippen = draymond? Put that pipe down
mj was the better defender, better closer, better shooter, better scorer, better leader.
G Clarke Defender is debate able... LeBron was a much better post defender and is great on the perimeter... Jordan could not defend PFs or Centers... Jordan was a great perimeter player and help defender like LeBron... Jordan was a better midrange shooter than LeBron.... LeBron has better 3pt % than Jordan... LeBron is the better passer/facilitator, better driver, better rebounder and was probably about the same when it comes to leadership... Jordan was more clutch but LeBron steps up in big games too...
"...was probably about the same when it comes to leadership"... not close
lebron is a more versatile defender but he is overrated in that area. jordan won defensive player of the year. lebron cannot guard any center worth his salt. stop listening to those commentators with that rubbish.
lebron is the more prolific passer but jordan's iq was as high as anyone's. he was just more inclined to score.
is he also a better 3pt shooter than kobe? that is a stat that would mean something if 3pters taken by both weren't majority situational. you leave both open at the 3pt line they are the same or jordan is a little better.
clutch... are you really comparing jordan to lebron in the clutch? now lebron choking is an overblown thing but comparable to jordan in the clutch? really? that is not even remotely close enough to discuss them in the same conversation. don't say that to anyone else. they will think you are an idiot.
G Clarke better scorer but he took wayyyy more shots. so of course he will have more points.
This guy speaks the truth ... Respect him
well said I love when you announce then analysis to reinforce your reason why is so complete great segment
its so close in all categories we have to take a look at some other categories to break the tie. playoff performances. leadership , the ability to make your teamates better etc. what other categories can you think of that can help break the tie and who wins those categories.
are u sure mj is not a better ball handler than lebron??😑😑 common man
what does better handles have to do with being a complete player? lml
YES, I'M SURE
+j mik Jordan has better handles than Lebron.
fc_jwhy HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA... WE ARE TALKING CROSSOVERS, NOT PUSH OFFS
j mik um ok? Lebron is my favorite player besides iverson and Baron Davis. I am telling you Jordan has a better handle than Lebron although both guys handles were above average at best.
magic played center in his first Finals as a rookie Yeah he absolutly cant rebound...
thank you
I totally agree
LeBron is a great teammate, Jordan is a great winner. I'll take the winner everytime idc
TrillWitThePimpin LeBron isn't a winner?
TrillWitThePimpin lebron is a winner. Matter a fact the teams lebron has played (Spurs and warriors) are better then any team mj has played
TrillWitThePimpin Wow I didn't know LeBron James wasn't a winner. I mean doesn't he have 4 mvp's and 3 titles and is one of the greatest players of all time and came up poor living in a 1 bedroom house in Cleveland Ohio?
A great winner always needs a great team..
Noor Faruqi Thanks but does that overall effect my point? No.
lebron by far best allround player. 27.7.7 on 50% dynamic and dominant at both sides of the court high IQ, teamplayer
What part of bricking free throws factor into the complete player arguement?
Nobody touches Jordan needs to see this
lol I hate that guy
3peats
Just like NTJ they both biased af..
The Dream its true tho, nobody touches jordan
+The Dream Jordan dickriders are bias AF. Tf you mean? yes Jordan is the goat but he's overrated. One more ring and Lebron surpasses him, but you guys would never admit that.
fc_jwhy
Excatly
Preach Colin preach
imaad uddin slurp colin slurp
obviously the most complete
Well, that's not news.
Real talk!
How the Lebron D taste Colin!? FFS
Its also the truth....
@Elta Masaki
Well then you name a player more complete player than Lebron
pls be our guest, name a much more complete player than lebron
7770robi Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Michael Jordan
VeliThaDon Youre high
LEBRON CANT SHOOT
Emanuel Diaz Bonilla but he can score
he shot 34% from 3 last playoffs, and 37.1% in the Finals. by your definition 95% of the NBA including MJ can't shoot either, he can shoot off the handle or from a post up on any defense and spot up, not many players can do that. LBJ is a better shooter than hes given credit for
Agreed.
that so so so true what Herd is saying
I was thinking Hakeem being the most complete but LBJ is def in the conversation
BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA if u dont think Lebron is the most complete player ever ur delusional at this point im sorry
ProverbsMC I never said he was can u read? I said I thought Hakeem was the most complete player. And if I said he was that doesn't change the fact that LBJ is also in the conversation of the most complete players that's y I said LBJ is in the conversation uk what that means? That means hes one of the most complete players. Me saying I thought Hakeem is doesn't mean I said LBJ isn't a complete player. The reason y I said Hakeem because he can score rebound and hes very unselfish and we see that during his career which means he can assist the ball on double team or open men out on the 3 pts line or on the cuts, hes #1 in blocks and is the only C in the top 10 steals list among guards. Hes dominated 5/5 categories but among other greats hes dominated 4/5 that's y I said i thought Hakeem was that doesn't mean LBJ isn't u can't assume what people are saying. LBJ is in the conversation or prob is the most complete player but u can't jus shove Hakeem out the way. I'm jus taking things into consideration here. That's it
clamp _25GoD well hakeem never played multiple positions like bron. hakeem plays 4 5. bron can play 1 to 4. sometimes 5
The Guy that's valid I agree.
+The Guy oh yea forgot to mention Elgin Baylor he played all 5 positions in the NBA and can dominate both ends on the floor. he can score can def rebound for sure assist with his really good passing ability and vision (not saying its up there with LBJ or magic) and he can also play defense physically and well. And I'm just throwing names out there jus so we won't forget players that played the game that were complete players. LBJ is the most complete player but let's not forget Elgin Baylor and take other players into the conversation. Elgin played all 5 position and dominated and blocks and steals weren't recorded to compare defensive stats and he played defense WELL.
ppl ask how would LeBron deal with the BAD BOYS PISTONS
Think Jordan... 260 pounds
smh
Manoel Gomez nope Try again. LeBron would be crying.
+spiderman4677 so he is not tough?
Its pure logic dude.
right..
tell us something we dont know
Finally someone has the balls to tell it how it truly is
May be most "complete", but overall, Jordan is the best. LeBron can't shoot like Jordan, defend like Jordan, nor clutch like Jordan.
I'll agree with shooting and being 'clutch' (even though that's not really something you can measure) but I would argue that Lebron is the superior defender. Given his size he can legitimately defend any position on the floor. Jordan was smaller and lighter than Lebron, I doubt Jordan would be able to defend a center like Cousins for example. It would be too great of a task but for Lebron it would be much easier. I do acknowledge that Jordan has DPOY to Lebron's 0 but I don't think that makes /too/ much of a difference.
Jaccobtw he never said lebron was greater than jordan
Why do we consider all assets of the offensive game but people just lump defending into 1 category. There are a lot of things on the defensive end Lebron can do that Jordan can't. Jordan is the better guard defender on ball. Lebron can guard every position on and off ball. They are both top tier defenders
he cant shoot like Jordan or clutch but he can defend even better than MJ and he has even better drive.He can also pass better.MJ until 90 he didnt pass the ball.
I still consider MJ the GOAT but Lebron is better than Magic and MJ-Lebron comparison is close for MJ
I would agree Jordan taught himself how to shoot the 3 a little bit more consistently in the 2nd half of his career then LeBron has. I don't agree defensively. Jordan used to simply have to guard his man and more often than not it was Pippen who guarded the elite wing player on the opposition. LeBron can guard basically 1-4 and is often called on to help defend, while also being the defensive anchor for most of his teams. Clutch wise same thing. Percentage wise in regards to game-winners, both are almost identical. If you look at the playoffs, they both have the same number of game winners, go ahead and game tying shots. LeBron also has the highest points per game average in league history in Game 7s and elimination games. The issue is we forget the 26 game winners Jordan has missed and focus only on the ones he's made, and with LeBron we do the opposite. The LeBron is not as clutch as Jordan thing is a myth.
Alot of people think Willie Mays is the best baseball player ever btw
preach it bro
Lebron is the greatest ever idc abt that Jordan tlk Jordan also played against lower level athletes Lebron plays a team every night with a guy who can get 40 inches off the ground
Javontae Garrett lower level athletes maybe, more skilled players yes.
Goobersteen Gallop he lost credibility when he said lower level athletes
Goobersteen Gallop Exactly!! The training and supplements that athletes take today allow them to be more athletic. It would be scary to see a guy like Dominique Wilkins play today who was unquestionably more athletic than most guys today.
who shot the ball better than mike on the bulls????? Colin you tripping lol
Dawee Jameel kerr, paxston, tony kukoc, bj Armstrong ....
Dawee Jameel Well, john paxson an steve kerr both shot around 50% which is close to MJ's fg% and he was always a lousy 3pt shooter. Kerr shot around 45-50 from 3 during his stint with the bulls and paxson ranged from 35-40.
Efrain Rivera wide open shots does not mean you're a better shooter, mike hit fade away shots, all types of contested shots, buzzer beaters with ppl draped over him, that's how you determine who's a better shooter, a wide open shot is a given, not that they'll hit it all the time, but its a given, put some D on Kerr, paxson etc and let's see how many shots they hit
Efrain Rivera and to bring up percentages is off base, why?, bc shooting percentage is not only tallied by how many you hit, but also by how many you shoot, as well as where from, that's why centers tend to lead the league in shooting percentage, now what center do you know shot better than Jordan?
Dawee Jameel Oh boy, you just dont get it do you? Why does it matter if they took open shots or contested impossible ones? Sure MJ was the much more skilled and the better scorer but they were just as efficient, especially from 3pt range. And I wouldnt say open shots are "a given" cause there are players in the league that cant hit an open jumpshot even if their life depended on it.
well said... ..
Hakeem Olajuwon and Michael Jordan were pretty "complete". As were Wilt and Oscar. But of course Colin always gets caught up in the moment and therefore LeBron is somehow "more" complete.
So many incomplete, misleading points. If you really think MJ was just a scorer, you need your basketball card revoked.
The classic anti MJ argument is always "When he left they went from 57 wins to 55!!!"
What you never hear is that when MJ left, the Bulls overhauled their entire roster and brought in 40 points worth of scoring to replace Jordan. Oh and when MJ came back for a full season, they went from 55 wins to 72. Just thought I'd throw that out there.
People like Colin always get "willing passer" and "better passer" confused. Lebron was a more *willing* passer than Jordan because Jordan was a scorer. Lebron is not a *better* passer than Jordan. You would know this if you actually watched MJ.
Yeah Lebron is a better rebounder. He's a 6'8 250 LB freight train. Rebounding has always been about who wants it more anyway. You dont think MJ could have averaged 8 boards a game if he really wanted to? Cmon.
Any way you slice it, legacy, talent on the court, impact on the game, MJ is better than Lebron. Sorry Colin but I think you're suffering from a bad case of recency bias.
Eth D only problem with ur argument is that MJ coulda got 8 rebs if he "wanted to"
Eth D Doesnt matter if MJ could have gotten more rebounds, he didnt. Doesnt matter if MJ was a better passer, he didnt average as many assists, so lebrons a better passer. Hypothetical situations dont determine legacy
Safwat Khan Per game assist numbers are probably the worst metric to use to determine who is a better passer. Jordan played in a triangle offense which facilitates ball movement, thus nobody hogs the ball. Lebron basically stat padded in Cleveland for 7 years because he had the ball in his hands every play. Plus Jordan was a natural scorer first and foremost, but that does not take anything away from his passing ability. Learn the difference between *better passer* and *more willing passer*
I think Phil Jackson said in one interview that Lebron will be perfect for his triangle offense cause Lebron is a willing passer for a Superstar... He even said he tried to have Kobe play like Lebron in that offense.
Eth D assist to turnover ratio: lebrons is better
As a Bulls fan, who watched Jordan win championships in the 90s, I don't disagree. And neither should Jordan, Magic, Russell, Wilt, or Kareem. Kobe and his bricks aren't even in the conversation.
true
Similar rebound numbers don't mean everything.
No one in their right mind would say that Lebron is not one of the greatest players ever. But looking at the numbers, the only per game stats in which Lebron beats Jordan are rebounds by 1 and assists by 1 and a half. They tie on blocks and Jordan beats him in steals and points.
This isn't to say Lebron isn't great, but I don't see how that 1 rebound per game and 1 and a half assists makes him a better all around player. Furthermore, in the '89 season, Jordan averaged 32.5 PPG, 8 RPG, and 8 APG, playing the point guard position. Also, he had 7 straight games with a triple double and recorded 15 triple doubles that season. So, yeah, Jordan could rebound and was a great teammate. I really don't get why Cowherd continues to talk about this stuff. It just seems desperate. Jordan was great. Lebron is great.
Wilson Evans Stats are largely deceptive. What you should do is observe what a player does for his team by watching him play, assessing his skills in detail on a possession by possession basis and keeping it all in context. That's how you evaluate. Not by looking up stats on NBA.com.
Tod Wilkinson Well, I think Jordan always knew that teams won championships, but he knew he wasn't gonna win with what he had early on. I guess that's why I say that. But I definitely think that he came to see that winning took a balance between team basketball and taking control of the game.
Tod Wilkinson Very true. That's why I like advanced metrics such as win shares, PER, and Elo ratings. I know it's a bit technical and not as flashy as the eye test, but it really puts players and teams in the proper perspective.
Tod Wilkinson Nowadays, there really are no centers, at least not in the way they used to exist. Of course, that's due to the rule changes, which I don't necessarily disagree with. But I'm not so sure Lebron could've played the 5 twenty years ago.
Tod Wilkinson Also, very true about the passing by the Bulls. That's why people don't truly understand that Phil Jackson didn't make Jordan, but those two made each other.
The Triangle only really works with a player like Jordan - someone who HAD to be double teamed, could beat you defensively and offensively, and who had the ability to completely take over a game.
Jordan is the most complete player ever. Period. I'd put Hakeem Olajuwon above Lebron too as a more complete player.
i was thinking the same thing
No way. Jordan was versatile, but he couldn't play four (sometimes even 5) positions on both ends like LeBron. He could pass, but wasn't a true point guard like LeBron and he didn't have the size, strength or speed of LeBron. There were things Jordan did better than LBJ, but there were certain roles Jordan wouldn't be able to fill. You can't really say that about LeBron. Same goes for Hakeem.
I understand what you're saying, but I define a complete player to be good at all aspects of the game (i.e., steals, blocks, passing, shooting, basketball IQ, fundamentals, etc.) and not necessarily that they can play all the positions well. LeBron is a complete player, yes, but I still think MJ and Olajuwon nudge him out.
dubnessIII Tell me what needs Jordan and Hakeem could fill that LeBron could not.
I'm not saying that Jordan and Hakeem have something that LeBron doesn't; they all are great, complete players of their era's. I just think Jordan and Hakeem are more complete. I know he is still playing, but LeBron doesn't even break the top 10 in any statistic, and he is only projected to do so in points...oh, and turnovers.
Nice sweater, tucker
This is so true
Colin you need to debate Skip!
yeah... I think I'm done
Like always, Colin is always right. He is the best at his job. Hands down.
Jordan dosent rebound like lebron? He only averaged 1.5 less and hes 2inches shorter and plays the sg
Cowherd: I wouldn't brag too much about how completely teams fold when LeBron leaves. That sort of argument backfires. How many demolished teams has he left in his wake? Leadership at the highest level means you create a system, a coalition, or a team that is bigger than even your efforts. And it will continue to function at a high level even when you leave it. Michael helped build the Chicago dynasty from the ground up. The Bulls front office and coaching staff had a great deal to do with it. Phil was brilliant, but Michael was there from the start and he helped to build something that was too big to fail when he stepped away. That is a testament to his patience, loyalty, and understanding of the Law of Process. Kudos to Michael! Maybe LeBron will learn from him some day. You don't have to chase rings when you are that good. When you are truly great, they will come to you, eventually.
Have to agree with Colin
Facts
Let's not forget he leaves the Miami big 3,who had just went to 4 STRAIGHT FINALS, and they miss the playoffs
Magic playin in today's era would put up video games numbers
people must watch mj at late 80s and then talk about his defence...
facts
Lebron is like a combo of Magic and Ben Wallace lol
I can do it all Colin!
Preach Brother! Preach!
LOVE IT!
I enjoy watching this more than Steven A.
Easily.
AMEN!!
Hammerin Hank !!!
You can't compare Mays and Ruth because Ruth was also a great pitcher of his era. Mays was a better defensive player and had more tools but as far as overall impact towards winning you can't argue with a great home run hitter who can pitch
The closest we had to Willie Mays is Ken Griffey Jr. He was the next best 5 tool player I've seen.
Finally someone who truly understand greatness.
you know what, you are right
Lebron is 3/7 in finals appearances for Colin to call him the GOAT is just embarrassing for all sports fans