What Aristotle and Joshua Bell can teach us about persuasion - Conor Neill
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- View full lesson: ed.ted.com/lessons/what-aristo...
Imagine you are one of the world's greatest violin players, and you decide to conduct an experiment: play inside a subway station and see if anyone stops to appreciate when you are stripped of a concert hall and name recognition. Joshua Bell did this, and Conor Neill channels Aristotle to understand why the context mattered.
Lesson by Conor Neill, animation by Animationhaus.
The thing is, at the concert hall people come especially to listen to his music. That is the reason they're there. But at the subway station, people did not come there to listen to him. They are there to get from place to place.
The only people who are in the audience are people who want to be there. The people in the subway have their schedules all planned out and are focused on what they are doing, and have no reason to listen. If a professor were to randomly give a lecture to no particular audience in public, then unless it was a highly interesting topic, very few people would listen. If the professor were to randomly give a lecture in a busy crowded area, it is even more unlikely. Imagine a professor giving a lecture on a calculus equation. Only people interested in calculus, and are not busy, will listen. In this case: only people who enjoy this instrument all by its self, and are not busy, will listen. The music would also be less quality because of the subway trains and the loudness of the crowd of people.
Indeed. It is expectation as well as the other elements talked about here.
Kairos
I bet if Ed Sheeran did the same with his guitar…that subway would’ve been crowded 😂
@@marthawayne6966 Yeah because he's a global superstar who looks like a Wesley, people are going to recognize him
I have to watch this for English homework. I remember watching this as a child (I'm not surprised, I binged every single one of Ted Ed's videos back then). Anyways, now I finally remember what that recycling sign in my childhood notebook labeled "ethos, pathos, logos" meant.
Have to do this for homework too lol
I'm currently taking English Composition I in college, and this was what my professor had us watch. I always got confused about what is logos/ethos/pathos, but this video explained it very well and helped me a lot! Thanks!
I have the same experience that Josuah faced in the metro station. I was frustrated and couldn't figure out what was the problem and I just blamed other people. But after watching this video, I realize that there're some essential elements for the successful persuasion. Pathos, Logos, and Ethos. they sound a bit hard but it's well explained in this video! I highly recommend watching this video who has a hard time delivering persuasive massage!
I need good persuasive massage
It can be described more simply than in the video...
In the concert hall, everyone there likes the type of music.
In the subway, a minority of commuters like it.
In the hall, everyone is there because they sought out music.
In the subway, everyone is there to get on a train.
In the hall, everyone is there on their free time.
In the subway, everyone is trying to get somewhere else.
It's like having a physics lecture at the Super Bowl; wrong audience, wrong place, wrong time.
This! No offense to the immensely talented Joshua Bell, but I think a lot of people in the subway were and probably still in the present more interested in music that they can immediately vibe and enjoy with when they get off or on the tube. I don't think a lot of classical pieces are designed for that (with exception of various catchy famous classical pieces like eine kleine etc.), they are meant for serious listening and reflection, which people in the tube rarely got a time to in their travels.
Hopefully in the last 10 years things have turned for the better
Narrator: How do your build credibility and emotional connection?
Godfather: I'll make them an offer they can't refuse.
fr
One of the things I miss the most about living in a city with a subway....is the music. Amazing musicians to be heard in subways and on street corners. One needs to only stop....and listen.
Trouble with this experiment is that perhaps only 1% of those travelling on the subway would listen to classical music or go to the Symphony Hall for a concert. Deciding to go to a concert means that you put time aside for that activity, whereas travelling on the subway usually means you're in a hurry.
that could be considered in the ethos part. The violinist doesn´t represent a figure of respect to the audience simply because the audience doesn't like the classical music.
@@nserpi4710 h
@@nserpi4710 kairos
let's replace the violinist with a football player or celebrity and plenty of people would stop to see them. This entire scenario is full of logical fallacies and fails to have a more objective view that looks at context, interests, probability, and popularity.
I think that’s pathos. No emotional connection between the travellers and the player or the type of music. As he said, a lot of the seats for the musical play cost over a 100 dollars. I believe that would mean the audience interested in that kind of music may not be the kind that populate the public transport setting.
The animations are just amazing and a perfect companion to the subject
The animation made my heart flutter
That goes for just about anything, not solely art. It actually makes sense when you think about it. There are so many environmental and psychological/behavioral variables at play here. The people in the Subway probably had places to be or things to do. They were probably focused on their objectives. The people in the theater signed up for being entertained. They made sure there where little to no distractions for the period of time Joshua Bell performed. That's just one basic reason, of the many
It really helps me to understand why some contemporary artists can be appreciated and the others can not even if they make equally aesthetically beautiful works. The others need to work on the pathos and ethos aspects. Art is a form of self expression but for it to be appreciated the artists sometimes needs to restrain their ego and think about how people can enjoy their works. It needs good packaging.
This is a great video, but based on a bad example. This story is famous, but the reason people don't stop on the subway for the great musician is the same reason they don't stop for almost anything, no longer than a few minutes, at least. They are there to move from point A to point B, and that's all.
When Joshua hugs Aristotle wwwwwww
I shouldn't have read the comments before watching the full video :(
Your communication class in 2011 in IESE: I began with the story of Joshua Bell to tell that many people don't listen to others because they think that they are not worthy to be listened to. Main idea of speech: compel the audience to really "listen to people". Speaker's PoV: It's a fact that logos, ethos and pathos are important for gaining the attention of audience. Listener's PoV: you can lose many interesting insights if you don't listen to people (prejudice: plays in underground -> bad). :)
Good show! One of my favorites so far I believe, and expect there to be many more this year!
Anyone here for remote learning??
Probably just me...
Me
I am. It's my first day of college classes and my English professor played this video over Zoom
Because i want improve my spech 🦧
sadly yes
Here dude
I really love the art style and animation, not to mention the great choice of lesson. I'd given up watching these videos but a friend showed me this and I'm definitely going to be renewing my subscription
it's about how you sell it to the spectators,who ever loves doing magic tricks knows it. knowing the trick ain't enough,you need to sell it. almost every magic trick any famous magician does is known,it's about how he presents in a unique way and builds a relation with the spectator which average people can't.
Ted ed just seems to be getting better and better.
Extraordinaria explicación, gracias.
Thank you so much! I have a test about Aristotle's 3 models of persuasion tomorrow, and you help me a lot!
Aristotle was a true all-rounder. He was the father of political science, pioneered rhetorics, figured out the earth was round (although he wasn't the first to do so), was a pretty good scientist and a philosopher in his spare time.
The Joshua Bell experiment was also very telling in exemplifying the fact that even if you have real talent in whichever field (i.e. the logos), without the proper element of context (i.e. ethos) and conducive platform/channel (i.e. pathos) you are not going to get very far. Countless geniuses & talents lie undiscovered for the simple reason that they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Simple and enlightening video. Thanks!
Wonderful lesson...
That part when Joshua hugs Aristoteles... (Awww...) 😍
Simple... and Clear ! Et voilà... Thanks for sharing.
Anyone else notice that cartoon Joshua is holding the violin...a little differently. 0:45
Thomas Carlyle put it quite accurately: ''the tragedy lies not in how much we suffer but in how much we miss''. We live mostly in a conceptual world, a mind fabricated world; otherwise Aristotle's idea would not hold and Joshua Bell's music would be appreciated anywhere it would happen to play - not because it's Joshua Bell playing but because something within resonates to it.
You're very right in that statement. For instance do most people REALLY remember anything from 2000? I bet that if you asked any 12-16 year old now that if they where to pick a song that is over 5 years old that they still enjoy today, they couldn't do it! I personally think that 40, 30, 20, even 10 years ago was the end of a person with real talent being able to make quality music and it being loved. Now any person who can use auto-tune or get a producer to change their voice can become famous.
fantastic. It shows how great the Greece philosopher was. After 2,300 year he can still give us answers. Also it shows that something that seems to be caused by the "modern" style of life is indeed deep inside our human being perceptions.
Very good, thanks
Amazing, bravo!
I miss this kind of ted ed simple no music not much animation. Simple and somehow peaceful
Great video.
thank you this helped a lot in my debate classes
This was such a beautiful video, I almost wept
Franklin Missark the odds of you replying to this comment is pretty low considering this comment was from 7 years ago
this is a wonderful thing.. as are all the ted eds..
but this wonderful thing has one big flaw, that has less to do with ethos pathos and logos, and more that the people in the auditorium were self selected for interest in Mr Bell and his work.
Equally, the denisons of the metro station are selection biased to be in a hurry, focused on other things, and generally no disposed to stop and listen
This does not negate the above information, still very valid, but less relevant to this case.
Selection bias is very important when trying to draw conclusions from individual events.
Would you try to sell tofu hotdogs to a nascar crowd?
It would be interesting ( and improbable!) to funnel the population of ta random metro station into and thru the auditorium. Or conversely have Mr Bell Busking at the nearest metro station just as his concert goers would pass thru on their way elsewhere.
I too have selection bias, in this case a predilection for using the tools of my own science to observe and illuminate humans, and thus see this through that lens.
Lou Alvis was my
Underrated comment! Thank you, Lou Alvis! :)
Good and simple. Like it.
This site can be helpful, thank you.
excellent, thanks
Awesome! Thank you:)
My salute! to the brilliant mind(s) who creates the understanding of these, for visually inclined people like I am.
very informative video
no, it's because that environment was setup to attract people of similar interests. If you played violin like that in many other places people also wouldn't really care. The concert hall had an event setup along with media to project that event to many possible people that may be interested in such event. It's also during that event that you must create enough value to convince people to stay.
I remember a book talking about appealing to both emotion and reason will win a crowd. Too bad I don't remember the title.
Shoutout to 5th period
3rd period 🤚
6th period :)
homework :(
Great teded video
I love it.... somehow I felt not alone in this chanel
Thankful for this helpful and informative video! I've never imagined there are specific elements needed to make persuasion work! From now on, I'll make sure that those three options to be fulfilled in any situation :)
i love this channel
Great video, nice way to learn Logos, Ethos and Pathos
Superb.
so good
This videos is very interesting.
For your first question, it does not matter if he was ir/rational because in either instances he would be contradicting or refuting his own conclusion. For your last question, I think the act of being labelled an irrational person is based on the context of the observer, not necessarily based on an arbitrary limit. One person may think another is irrational base on perception bias :D
1:53 - 1:59
2300 лет назад Аристотель написал одну из самых важных работ об убеждении-"Риторику".
2:00 - 2:07
Три значения убеждения: Логос, Эпос и Пафос.
2:08 - 2:14
Логос отвечает за восприятие идеи с точки зрения публики.
2:15 - 2:16
Это восприятие зачастую отличается от точки зрения оратора.
2:17 - 2:23
Нужно сделать так, чтобы идея соответствовала обстановке, чувствам и переживаниям публики.
2:24 - 2:25
Хороший аргумент похож на хорошую музыку.
my new favorite video:)
it's sad because most people cannot recognize great talent. That is the main reason why no one stayed.
Whaddup Mrs. Willet's class
The animation was really great ^_^
Although this is a great introduction to rhetoric, I would say it has more to do with kairos: saying (or in this case playing) the right thing, in the right place, at the right time. An argument is useless if it doesn't come at the right persuadable moment.
In this case, meeting the audience's expectations in the concert hall versus imposing them on an unsuspecting one in the subway. :)
the best ted
Well it's called like that, because it's the TED brand served in an educational manner. It's no more complicated than that.
Great video! :-)
ES TAN IMPORTANTE YA QUE NOS ENSEÑA DE CUALES ERAN LOS ELEMENTOS QUE USABA ARISTOTELES COMO DISCURSO ,AUDIENCIA,ORADOR QUE CUANDO EL DABA SU DISCURSO BUSCABA PERSUACION
I would see it more as a defense mechanism against loss time - judging quickly in the presented situation you may thing "oh just another street artist" to avoid having to be more discerning.
He never said that, he said he is usually wrong. But I'm guessing Aristotle simply didn't forget to be awesome on this one.
2:51 - 2:56
авторитетности, что содержит в себе уверенность и лаконичность изложения, а также четкость и решительность в речи.
2:57 - 3:01
Пафос-это определенная эмоциональная связь.
3:02 - 3:05
Рассказ является примером эффективного средства для создания эмоциональной связи.
3:06 - 3:09
Бывают случаю, когда публика не готова услышать саму идею.
3:10 - 3:13
Оратор должен создать подходящую эмоциональную обстановку для слушателя, чтобы изложить свою идею.
3:14 - 3:16
Что изменилось?
I absolutely agree with that. I'm glad I'm not alone in your assessment, nice to talk to another free-thinker. Human behavior is interesting.. I hope our culture won't relish in permanent complacency and continue taking the opiates of advertisers. I feel like more and more I'm watching human drones in everything from politics to music. I hope innovative America won't completely die anytime soon.
2:00 Ethos, Pathos, Logos, Telos, Kairos, Topos
Ethos es una palabra griega (en griego antiguo, ἦθος ễthos) que significa mi "costumbre y conducta" y, a partir de ahí, "conducta, carácter, personalidad".
thanks
My point exactly!
Also, what's 'whether or not people stop to listen to Joshua Bell playing the violin in a subway' got to do with persuasion? Is the motivation of the people walking through the subway not involved? Some may want to stop and listen but may also feel they need to get to their destination
0:52 - 0:57
Один ребенок остановился на какое-то время и смотрел, словно понимал, что происходит нечто особенное.
0:58 - 1:02
Джошуа говорил о своем опыте как о необычном чувстве.
1:03 - 1:06
Большинство людей действительно игнорировали его.
1:07 - 1:11
Джошуа Белл играл на скрипке на станции в метро.
1:12 - 1:14
*Звук проезжающего поезда в метро.*
1:15 - 1:20
В музыкальном зале я расстраивался, когда кто-то кашлял либо, когда звонил чей-то телефон.
Not to mention actually having the time to listen to it. Imagine yourself on the way to work. Would you risk your job only to listen to music?
This is exactly why there are many geniuses who remain undiscovered because they are in the WRONG place at the WRONG time.
And conversely why there are many mediocre people who are well-known because they were in the RIGHT place at the RIGHT time.
0:14 - 0:17
9го января 2007 года
0:18 - 0:27
Джошуа Белл, один из величайших скрипачей в мире, играл в Бостонском концертном зале для огромной публики, состоящей из более, чем 1000 человек.
0:28 - 0:31
Билеты стоили от $100.
0:32 - 0:34
Он привык давать платные концерты.
0:35 - 0:37
Он был на вершине своего таланта и знаменитости.
0:38 - 0:51
Три дня спустя Джошуа Белл играл в месте, где не было никого, кроме, возможно, нескольких человек, которые останавливались на секунду.
great
2)This can take a prolonged contact either with the teaching or a person who understands it, in order to create legitimacy. This may well occur only after a catastrophic failure or witnessing such a failure.
@LemonatedOrange: French the llama, it's one of my fellows!
Really I need to use Tools of persusion♥
If a musician were in that subway I think they'd recognise that someone was playing the violin 'exceptionally' well and would pause to listen.
3:17 - 3:20
Почему люди преодолевают большие расстояния ради того, чтобы услышать музыку?
3:21 - 3:23
и даже не останавливаются на миг, чтобы послушать на следующее утро?
3:24 - 3:27
Ответ заключается в том, что Этос и Пафос отсутствовали во втором случае.
3:28 - 3:36
Этос. Факт того, что концерт Джошуа проходил в большом концертном зале, обеспечивает Джошуа относительным доверием.
3:37 - 3:38
Люди доверяем учреждению, а значит и Джошуа.
wow, i just found that key
4:01 - 4:08
Толкучка, движение и стресс препятствуют эмоциональной связи между исполнителем и слушателем.
4:09 - 4:15
Логос. Этос. Пафос. Идея попросту не может существует без этих трех составляющих.
4:16 - 4:21
Вот что пришло в голову Джошуа Беллу, когда он чуть не замерз январским днем в 2007 году.
4:22 - 4:27
Если у Вас есть идея, как Вы достигаете убедительности и эмоциональной связи?
1:21 - 1:25
Здесь же, в метро, его ожидания быстро развеялись.
1:26 - 1:29
Он был необычайно благодарен, когда кто-то давал ему доллар.
1:30 - 1:31
*Звук купюр в воздухе.*
1:32 - 1:33
Что изменилось?
1:35 - 1:40
Та же музыка на той же скрипке, сыгранная с тем же чувством того же человеком.
1:41 - 1:44
Почему люди слушали в одном случае и НЕ слушали в другом?
1:45 - 1:46
*Звук пишущего карандаша.*
1:47 - 1:49
Аристотель может объяснить.
1:50 - 1:52
Что нужно для того, чтобы убедить людей?
An interesting perspective basic human psychology. :)
Everyone else is here for English homework. I’m here for Joshua Bell
i was watching "Louis" by Louis C.K. and there was a scene of a violinist playing in the subway. anyone know what im talking about and can confirm if thats a coincidence or not?
Complex doesn't mean superior, or better. The best of art is based on simple patterns. The way this patterns are processed and the novelty in modes of expression is what makes a certain piece stand out.
I believe most people will agree with you though, about art being subjective. But i cannot under any circumstance put Mozart, Miles Davies or Pink Floyd in the same place with Bieber, Britney Spears or even Rhianna. For i believe there is one last objective judge when it comes to art:TIME!
I personally would have stopped for as long as I could to listen, and normally do for most street performers I see that are good, but people in a subway have places to be and deadlines to attend to. Is listening to one of the greatest violinists worth losing your job, or missing an important meeting, or having to wait an extra 14 hours for another bus because you missed the boarding?
3:39 - 3:43
Метро не обладает подобным доверием в отношении музыкальных талантов.
3:44 - 3:48
Мы не ожидаем найти там великое искусство: услышать великолепную музыку или отличные идеи.
3:49 - 3:50
Так что метро не может предоставить тех доверительных условий для Джошуа.
3:52 - 4:00
Пафос. Концертный зал, в отличие от платформы метро, спроектирован таким образом, чтобы обеспечить наилучшую эмоциональную связь между публикой и артистом.
Será que é possível fazer s tradução do vídeo?
+Rosicler Nunes dos Santos O vídeo tem legendas. Falas de dublagem?
+Edgar Manuel Cambaza obrigada amigo não sabia desse detalhe.Valeu mesmo.Um abraço
Logos should have been in the explanation too. The sub riders & Joshua don't share worldview either.
Warren Buffet once said that if he was born in a prehistoric time in a Jurassic landscape, the quantitative genius of his mind would not help him one bit to live a great life, or any life at all. He quipped that he would likely, in very short order, become some raptor's dinner. Ah... the serendipity of life!
the video forgot to talk about the difference in population, only a select few will go to a music house, also people were probably were busy in the subway
I remember reading this in the newspaper... it's an amazing story and can't really be held in as little as 5 minutes
search "AR2007040401721" in a search engine and it should be the first link: "Pearls Before Breakfast - washingtonpost"
if you want to read the whole story that is
yeh agreed