Did the CONFEDERACY Have BETTER GENERALS?!?!?!
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2021
- Episode 7 of Checkmate, Lincolnites! Debunking Lost Cause myths - as well as more benign common misconceptions - about the military leadership of the Civil War. Did the South really have all the best battlefield talent? Was the key to Union victory a simple strategy of overwhelming the Confederate army with numbers and resources? Who was better at their job, Ulysses S. Grant or Robert E. Lee?
I'd say watch and find out, but the answer is obviously Grant.
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~REFERENCES~
[1] Andy Hall. “With One Hand Tied Behind its Back” (2013). Dead Confederates Blog deadconfederates.com/2013/11/...
[2] G.S. Boritt. Why the Confederacy Lost (1992). Oxford University Press, Page 39-40
[3] Richard E. Beringer. Why the South Lost the Civil War (1986). University of Georgia Press, Page 8-24
[4] Borritt, Page 24-30
[5] Charles Royster. The Destructive War: William Tecumseh Sherman, Stonewall Jackson, and the Americans (1991). Vintage Civil War Library, Page 76
[6] “Lincoln’s Unsent Letter to General Meade.” American Battlefield Trust www.battlefields.org/learn/pr...
[7] Eric J. Wittenberg. “A Civil War Witch Hunt: George Gordon Meade, The Retreat from Gettysburg, and the Joint Committee on the Conduct of the War” (2015). Emerging Civil War Blog emergingcivilwar.com/2015/07/0...
[8] Report of the Joint Select Committee Appointed to Inquire into the Condition of Affairs in the Late Insurrectionary States, so Far as Regards the Execution of Laws, and the Safety of the Lives and Property of the Citizens of the United States and Testimony Taken (1872). quod.lib.umich.edu/m/moa/ACA4...
[9] Andy Hall. “Nathan Bedford Forrest Joins the Kl@n” (2011). Dead Confederates Blog deadconfederates.com/2011/12/...
[10] Andy Hall. “Confederate Veterans on Forrest: ‘Unworthy of a Southern Gentleman’ (2013). Dead Confederates Blog deadconfederates.com/2013/08/...
[11] Edward Bonekemper. Ulysses S. Grant: A Victor, Not a Butcher (2004). Regnery History, Page 89-92
[12] Mary Boykin Chestnut. A Diary of Dixie (1905). D. Appleton and Company, Page 350
[13] Ernest B. Ferguson. “Catching Up With ‘Old Slow Trot’” (2007). Smithsonian Magazine www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...
[14] Bonekemper, Page xii
[15] Bonekemper, Page 308-309
[16] Bonekemper, Page 192-193
[17] Bonekemper, Page 201-203
[18] Justin D. Murphy. American Civil War: Interpreting Conflict Through Primary Documents, Vol. II (2019). ABC-CLIO, Page 331
[19] Bonekemper, Page 121 & 243-245
[20] Elizabeth Brown Pryor. Reading the Man: A Portrait of Robert E. Lee Through his Private Letters (2008) Penguin Books, Page 335
[21] Sean Kane. Myths and Misunderstandings: Grant as a Slaveholder (2017). The American Civil War Museum acwm.org/blog/myths-misunders...
[22] “Letter from Robert E. Lee to Mary Randolph Custis Lee (December 27, 1856).” Encylopedia Virginia encyclopediavirginia.org/entr...
[23] Pryor, Page 144-150
[24] “Ulysses S. Grant and General Orders No. 11” National Park Service www.nps.gov/articles/000/ulys...
CORRECTIONS: Due to an unfortunate case of me being a damn fool, I confused Confederate casualty statistics at the Siege of Vicksburg with those of the entire campaign. To give a more balanced view of United States casualty rates, the graphic which appears onscreen at 37:15 should really have incorporated the approximately 2200 Union soldiers killed or wounded at the Battle of Champion Hill as well, which tallied to 8% of Grant's forces at that battle. Still a staggering victory, no doubt, but a dumb numerical error on my part, so sorry about that.
Also, the Winter War did end in victory for the Soviets, but at a much greater loss of life.
why did you rewrite this?
And in the Haitian revolution the side with the most men won. Not to mention that France was going through its own revolution at the time. They were , distracted.They were also supported by powerful countries, Spain and Britain.
@@francescodegregorio2824 I think the pinned comment that originally said this disappeared.
@@jonathannelson103 most men yes, but less advanced technology. The point was about both I believe.
@@danieldyson1660 but they also had the Spanish and British fighting the French in Haiti because of the wars going on in Europe. Surely you don't think that they were less advanced than the French.
When someone complained that Grant was a drunk, Lincoln said "find out what whiskey he drinks and send a case to each of my generals".
citation?
It was a perfect message!
A way to say "Yall are bitchin, but he's doing what we actually need so maybe you should start emulating him."
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 1863 October 30, New York Times, Blair’s Bitters, Quote Page 4, Column 4, New York. Took me 30 seconds. Come on dude.
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 and by come on dude, I mean grow up and google your own questions
@@mister_kaniela Lmao, no. The first person should have cited a source and not run around dropping quotes even if they are true. not a good way to keep knowledge, makes it more of a hearsay, or a readsay in this case.
The biggest mistake people make when playing Chess is neglecting naval supremacy.
I have it on good authority that chessboards are not immune to the solid shot of 11-inch Dahlgren guns.
My favorite opening is queen's gambit into shore bombardment.
Once you cross your opponent’s King’s T it’s checkmate.
lol well played
And the ICBM. Don't forget the ICBM, you don't recover from that mistake.
Arguing "we were doomed from the start" is basically admitting the secessionists were just stupid or suicidal.
now tack on the fact that they were unequivocally proven to be fighting for slavery, it makes them even worst. Like were you honestly expecting a participation trophy when you fought to preserve an inhumane and immoral institution ?
_"Let me tell you what is coming. After the sacrifice of countless millions of treasure and hundreds of thousands of lives, you may win Southern independence if God be not against you, but I doubt it. I tell you that, while I believe with you in the doctrine of states rights, the North is determined to preserve this Union. They are not a fiery, impulsive people as you are, for they live in colder climates. But when they begin to move in a given direction, they move with the steady momentum and perseverance of a mighty avalanche; and what I fear is, they will overwhelm the South.”_ --Texas Governor Sam Houston, April 16, 1861
@@TheStapleGunKid It's interesting that he very accurately predicted the losses. No one could imagine there would be hundreds of thousands of dead.
Plenty of slave revolts were begun with the awareness that they faced incredibly long odds. Self-interest can be a powerful motivation
They were stupid.
I love how Forrest's testimony to congress was basically just the 1800's equivalent of "I'm not racist, I have black friends!"
“I’m not racist, my slaves think I’m pretty cool”
I forget; did he testify in his Grand Wizard outfit?
Is there a transcript available online?
Nothing wrong with being racist...
@@user-lv1jk9qb9t excuse me
"Grant was just a drunk!"
Then you got steamrolled by a drunk... should probably stop saying that.
Grant sucked. His claim to flame is he doesn't flinch when he takes high casualties, he can live with the loss of his soldiers life. Lincoln wants it, i'll give it to him and never get replaced.
@@Rex-gu1bu Souds similar to a lot of confederate generals to me. Difference is, Grants method worked.
@@Rex-gu1bu Grant doesn't suck at all lmao. If you're only looking at the Peninsular Campaigns, it looks bad, but he took way less casualties in the Western theater than the Confederate generals he faced, as Andy says in this very video.
@@weirdofromhalo "Andy is high as a kite and it slipped passed you that this is a thinly veiled propaganda piece for the north and demonizing the south. The fact that it was comedy allows it to escape scrutiny. "Lee always took a higher percentage of casualties than anybody else in the war". Um, what? Yeah, he was usually outnumbered 2-1, so the loss of his 13000 is a higher percentage than the loss of 17000 of his opponent who has over twice the men he has. That proves that the North had a tremendous advantage in numbers and often relied on it. Yet he spins it as Lee loses more men. He makes no sense and he shows his dummy southerner frowning as if he made a point. The Northerner of course is sensible and no Northern stereotypes are poked at. I give this video a fail for what I could see he was going for. "Lee lost a higher percentage of men than anybody in the war". Wow, whata fail. I am the only one who called this out.
Who is "you"? Lee didn't get steamrolled and neither did I. Maybe the "you" that got steamrolled is the other poster?
I won't lie to you: "If only Sherman would have spontaneously combusted at the battle of Chattanooga." Is one of the single funniest things I've ever heard.
I was in stitches!
That wouldn't have helped, George Thomas was also at Chattanooga...although when Thomas took Atlanta, it's likely the city would not have been malevolently and evilly burnt as Sherman did, which paradoxically just might have made Reconstruction a lot easier...
If that had happened it could have saved the Union a lot of money post war during Reconstruction. Seriously the man did a number on the state of Georgia during his March into the Sea.
Fire cannot kill a dragon
"If only we could have cloned Jeb Stewart so he could be in both the western and the eastern theaters at the same time."
My great great great great grandfather Robert R. Byers, who was a Union soldier during the American Civil War, remembered trying (and failing) to hold back laughter when he heard that Stonewall Jackson was gunned down by his own men.
Meanwhile, Grant said:
"[Jackson] and I were at West Point together for a year and we served in the same army in Mexico. He was a gallant soldier and a Christian gentleman, and I can fully understand the admiration your people have for him."
How many women and girls did he rape?
The Brits could not support the South. They outlawed slavery in 1807 and 1838. There is no way they could support the South. As for McClelland was wonderful at training the army but was a lousy field officer. He was just too cautious.
@@nbenefiel
"The Brits could not support the South"
They came quite close to doing so, especially since the Confederacy offered an emancipation plan.
And McClelland's gotten something of a rehabilitation in recent years. Most of the mistakes he got blamed for were Lincoln's mismanagement, and the plan that Grant followed at the end was McClellan's plan.
McClellan was a good choice for an invasion, because he had a reputation from the Mexican War of being kind to civilians. And THIS is why he got fired. Lincoln got tired of him whining about his terrorism.
@@kenabbott8585
The Brits thought about that - but I don't think they'd want to step into another potentially messy and bloody war after the Crimean one. It might simply not worth it.
And, if I'm not mistaken, the Southern emancipation plan was just about freeing slaves to draft them into the army. It looks like a desperate measure - not good for international relations. If you have to draft the men you despise - you're screwed.
McClellan was a great strategist, but he blundered a lot himself. The main reason of it was lousy recon. Why did McClellan always think he was outnumbered? Because his army was always blind! I'd like to see McClellan's command with good recon - then we could honestly judge his actual tactical skills, not his thoughts and precautions.
Let's look at Antietam - the essence of McClellan's blunders:
1. The cavalry didn't do anything. Why Hooker and Meade could put the same horsemen (with many of the same Generals) to good use (look at Gettysburg Campaign - it was good!), but McClellan couldn't? As the result, the Army of the Potomac was again completely unaware of Lee's army's positions and numbers and had to act blindly. That alone made Antietam the bloodiest day on Western Hemisphere. Hooker tried to flank the enemy but was flanked hinself by Stuart's artillery. After that... you know.
2. No general battle plan. It's just weird. I'd understand Pope or even Hood not having it - but McClellan was smarter that that.
3. McClellan dissolved the Wings before the battle, creating a mess. Who was the IX Corps Commander: Cox or Burnside who had no other troops under his command? Good that they were next to each other during the actual battle.
4. Burnside's Bridge... oh, man.
- What was Burnside suppose to do in the battle? Create a diversion to weaken the Rebs at the north? Okay, then why did the order to attack come at 10 AM, four hours after Hooker's engagement? What kind of a diversion was it?
- McClellan later said that he planned Burnside's attack as the main one. Hmm... by just one Corps? Through a narrow and well-defended bridge? Only a blockhead would plan that - and McClellan wasn't one.
- The recon screwed up again by showing Burnside the wrong ford to cross. The flanking force by Rodman had to find the right one by themselves - that's why it took three hours to flank 700 Georgians who defended the bridge.
- After Burnside crossed the bridge, he felt his position was insecure and asked for reinforcements. He got none - and was swept by A.P. Hill's Light Division.
But I understand why McClellan didn't want to pursue Lee after Antietam. He didn't think his troops were good enough for that - and maybe he was right.
No, Grant's plan wasn't McClellan's one. McClellan would never send the main army through the Wilderness - and Grant's idea of constant push wouldn't look good for McClellan. But I'd say Grant would be a perfect General for McClellan's strategy: he was brave, fast and accustomed to fleet support. So marching on Richmond while removing obstacles like forts, enemy troops and Magruder's circuses would be a good task for Grant :)
Gotta love how contradictory Forrest's testimony is.
"I am not an enemy to black people, I'm just against the idea of giving them the right to vote and sympathize with an organization founded to intimidate them"
It’s like Amber Heard and Charity 😂
I truely believe Forrest was a changed man after his time in the KKK. Johnston, Forrest and Grant are my favourites.
@@pintoffanta2510 In the end, we will never truly know, but it's great to be optimistic.
Neoconfederates be like: “i don’t hate black people i just bate their rights”
@@West_Coast_Gang Incorrect
I don't see how calling Grant a drunk makes your generals look better. If anything you've just owned up to the fact that they were so inept they couldn't even beat a drunk.
That's something you often see the supporters of the losing sides of conflicts do; try to make the opponent they lost to look weak somehow. They think it makes their own side look better, but in reality it makes them look pathetic for losing to someone that was supposedly that inferior.
imagine trying to take pride in being beaten that thoroughly by a drunk... makes you wonder about some people...
This reminded me about how I keep saying “Either Hillary Clinton is not this nefarious criminal you think she is, or the Republicans you keep electing are too stupid to prosecute her, which is it?”
@@BinaryVoodooDoctor She's a student of Kissinger. Avoiding prosecution is a learned art.
@@rangergxi For what crime? There is nothing. And you know her opponent looked for ANYTHING the last 30 years. There is nothing.
“If only general Sherman had spontaneously combusted”
Holy shit dude
I thought he was going to go on about aliens next.
I wonder if that’s a reference to the ww2 tank?
I laughed my butt off at "If only Judah P. Benjamin had brought forth the power of the ark of the Covenant."
@@poke0043moto LMAOOOO
@@poke0043moto I hope not, that’s a myth in and of itself.
I just realized in rewatching this that Forrest straight up ADMITTED THE WAR WAS OVER SLAVERY. Welp, that's that I guess.
He certainly wasn't the only honest rebel in that regard:
_"The South went to war on account of slavery. South Carolina went to war, as she said in her secession proclamation, because slavery would not be secure under Lincoln. South Carolina ought to know what was her cause for seceding."_ --Confederate Colonel John Mosby.
"We want him here among us, he is the only laboring class we have" is truly a breathtaking line
@@TheStapleGunKid
Lost Cause Apologists: "It wasn't about slavery! It was about states rights!"
The Confederate States and members of the Confederacy at the time: "This is about slavery."
@@averybishopmartin6964
I can only imagine if time travel was invented and these 2 groups got to meet face to face.
Both sides would have viewed the other as crazy lunatics.
That isn't what he said, he said that the North was fighting for emancipation. Was he right? Not necessarily, but the quote had nothing to do with the Southern Cause.
The way Johnny Reb hissed at the mention of Grant's name was like a vampire being spritzed with holy water, or a cat being spritzed with regular water.
Now I’m wondering if cats are religious and all water is holy to them. And this is why all house cats hate water, because they are little furry demons.
@@enigmabureau holy shit………………….
@@enigmabureau Nah. Some of my brattiest cats don't react much to getting sprayed.
@@paulastiles5507 they’ve become too powerful
@@joepetto9488 that man is made of flesh
"See ya in hell, Billy Yank."
"See ya in hell, Johnny Reb."
I have no idea how these two lines could break my heart into so many tiny little pieces.
We know the series isnt over yet..... Somewhere between Black Confederates and Sherman, he stated that the series was only halfway over, and it would be VERY obvious when it was...
Hell is 2020 ;) We just left it.
i think he just quoted the movie gettysburg. Just watch the trailer and you will see the scene
Oh, but the post-credits scene put all of Marvels to shame. So get excited for Checkmate Amerikaners
@@Professor_Nixon maybe it's a Yahtzee nazi?
"General Lee, what about the Western theater?"
"There's a Western Theater?"
😂
Lol
"If I close my eyes it is not there"
“What about the Shenandoah River Valley?”
Everyone always forgets about the brutal fighting in the Trans-Mississippi Theater. Though did not have the massive armies of the Eastern/Western Theaters, the Trans-Mississippi was just as, if not more than, brutal.
Fun italian fact: Lincoln tried to recruit Garibaldi as a general during the early stages of the war. The famous italian fighter though declined the invitation, obviously for reasons related to the italians conflicts at the time as well as personal motives, but he claimed the lack of a abolition act as a cause, as he was a fiery abolitionist, not happy by the ambiguous position of Lincoln on the matter at the time.
An additional fun fact, when Garibaldi volunteered his services. But there was no real evidence that Lincoln actively courted him. Politically it would be suicide to put a foreigner in charge of Union armies.
Moreover after the EP was passed, Garibaldi was the first to sign Lincoln's praises.
Another fact, San Marino praised Lincoln so much, that they offered him citizenship in their country and invited him over to discuss a diplomatic alliance. Lincoln denied the offer but thanked the nation for it's eager support for the union.
@@vehx9316 you are in the wrong here, good ser. We know that the diplomat Henry Shelton Sanford went personally, on order of Lincoln, to seek out and deliver Garibaldi a letter wrote by Lincoln and the possible appointment of Garibaldi as a officer or even a general in the war. Now, i admit, details are misty, and said letter seen to have been lost to time, but the fact remain. Garibaldi did not volunteer his service, he refused it. All view on the facts agree that, in some measures, Lincoln sought Garibaldi, not the other way around, and why wouldn't it? Garibaldi was a general of incredible renown and a skilled tactician as well, with proved and tested military experience in numerous campaign in italy and around the world. He fought against official militaries and army, as well as proper military campaigns numerous times by that point, proving victorious most often than not. Not to mention, numerous italians lived and served in the Union, as well as in the Confederate, army, so to put such a famous national figure at the head of a brugade or platoon of such troops would have been a wise move, as well as a propaganda master stroke. I don't see it as an impossibility, and here i showed that your affirmations stands on no ground.
@@giacomoromano8842 "Henry Shelton Sanford went personally, on order of Lincoln, to seek out and deliver Garibaldi a letter wrote by Lincoln "
If that is so, then surely we should have a copy of the said letter to been seen would we not ?
It's a nice tale, but we have no real evidence proving it. Lincoln's government was a hodgepodge of individual actions at times which unfortunately clouds matters in whether Lincoln personally approves it or was even made aware of it.
The perfect example was the offer to leave Fort Sumpter. Now it was made, but it was made by Seward, Lincoln wasn't even aware of it and he was pretty pissed about it against Seward.
@@giacomoromano8842 no that not true, there was an offer made yes. But there is no evidence that it came DIRECTLY from Lincoln. Its more likely someone in Lincoln's governmetn acting on their own accord.
Lincoln weoting the letter and never sending it is kinda like therapy. He was upset and wrote his feelings then reread it and realized he should let his generals general. Thats rrspectable amd a sign of a good leader
Writing an angry letter and then throwing it away is a time-honored method of relieving stress.
anyone who hace ever wrote a comment then deleted it will understand
Ironic that the Confederates so admired Napoleon, whose possibly greatest, and most winning, attribute was that he constantly fretted over his logistics and manpower.
Also his offensive tactics, which the south barely used properly
A general crucial to the Union victory and given no credit is Quartermaster General Montgomery C Meigs. He basically ensured the Union outprivisioned the rebels. No point having a big industrial capacity and no way of getting it to the troops.
How did you comment this 2 days ago
@@bradysullivan4548 time travel
How is there a comment that’s 2 days old on a vid that released this morning?
Napoleon: 'the amateurs discuss tactics, the professionals discuss logistics.'
Lee: Logistics are annoying.
Thats why napoleon has an era named after him, and lee hasnt, and lost a war betraying his country
@Fascism and violence are cool In some people's opinions, sure. There were nationalists and state rights guys in the past, i think you're oversimplifying here.
Legally, I think treason against the federal government wasn't acceptable back then either.
@Fascism and violence are cool Sure! Lee was more loyal to his home state that promoted the slave system that gave him and his comrades power and privileges than to the federal government, which, just out of fear, believed it was going to take away those privileges.
Lee: logistics why you bully
@@thewampire4640 well Lee had a tank named after him
But it was a shitty tank so nothing to worry about
I love how Johnny goes from “It wasn’t about slavery” to openly calling the Union Army the Abolition Army.
That's actually a term you often see in actual Confederate propaganda of the time. For example, Jefferson Davis responded to the emancipation with his own proclamation, in which he denounced the Union army as "mercenaries for abolition".
@@TheStapleGunKid
And somehow people can still think that the war wasn't about slavery........
Conservatives have always been the same.
@@vehx9316 Its not that they think the war wasn't about slavery, its that they lie about what they know.
Well, then. We made Neo-Confederate belief extinct!
"General Lee was a better tactician, General Grant was a better strategist " - General James Longstreet in his book "From Manassas to Appomattox"
That's pretty well right. Lee, for all his "brilliance", realized only too late that the way for his side to win is by digging in and inflicting casualties from a defensive posture. His victories were costly, and his side could not replace the numbers or equipment so easily. Perhaps the thought was smashing victories would end the war, but for all of the trouble Lee gave everyone before Grant came west, the war was being lost. The idea that Gettysburg was the turning point is overblown, after all. Not only was Vicksburg the key defeat, in both cases the outcome was almost certainly decided. Vicksburg was finished, whether it came on July 4 or sometimes after. And even if Lee had carried the day at Gettysburg, it would merely be a slightly higher peak before the decline that was already guaranteed by the war's years of casualties and destruction, which only one side could weather for years.
@@ElCrab
Even if Lee “won” at Gettysburg, it would have been such a tremendous cost that to call it Pyrrhic would be an understatement
My problem with Lee is that his accomplishments were all in Virginia his home state. As soon as he left he got killed twice
@@warlordofbritannia It also doesn't really reflect well on him that he chose to come gallivanting up here to Pennsylvania while Vicksburg was desperately in need of help (and begged him to send it) and had far more strategic importance to the Confederacy's objectives.
@@warlordofbritanniaAlso, had Lee tried to engage Meade at Pipe Creek (which would be necessary to march on D.C.), his army would have been destroyed.
Oversimplified had a great metaphor for Grant's generalship. While Lee was playing chess, Grant was grabbing the sledgehammer.
which is also funny considering McClellan played that game of chess with Lee and did so, according to Lee, brilliantly. We love to shit on McClellan because of his lack luster performance during the Civil War but it wasn't because he was a bad leader, no. In fact although his performance was lack luster he never actually suffered a massive defeat and always moved his army into the best position. He was in actuality a brilliant leader. The problem was again he was playing chess with Lee instead of fighting a war.
@@a-drewg1716 McClellan was a good staff officier but he wad terrible as a field commander.
@@a-drewg1716 McClellan is isn't criticized for never losing a major defeat, he's criticized for never pushing is advantages, even when they were clear he had them. Which is why he also never had a major win and the war dragged on. Contrast that to Grant who made a couple big mistakes, but he also won the war decisively. That's why Grant was far more impactful in the war than McClellan ever could be.
@@projectpitchfork860 McClellan is a textbook example of theoretical expertise without practical experience. He strikes me (knowing nothing about his career except what I've learned from Checkmate Lincolnites) as someone who studied the campaigns of Alexander, Caesar, Washington, and Napoleon until he could reenact the Battle of the Granicus beat for beat but put him behind a real army in a real battlefield and he choked
Ah yes the channel with a quarter quarter accurate history, conveniently presenting the most clean versions of their history (as much as possible with certain topics) all delivered with no sources whatsoever and some of the clearest bias this side a Mississippi
Honestly the only thing the rebel is right about is that “checkmate Lincolnites” sounds so much better lol
Anyone else love to see a series with this done by a British guy and a soldier from Napoleon's Grande Armee? THAT would be entertaining.
@@thunderbird1921 Checkmate Wellingtonites ?
@@thunderbird1921 I'd love to hear him do those accents
@@thunderbird1921 I would actually like to see him go at some of the myths about the revolutionary war, opposite a red coat...
Yeah I have to agree with that one too. "Checkmate, Davisites!" just doesn't have the same ring to it...
I've rewatched this episode a couple of times now and the line "If only Sherman spontaneously combusted at the Battle of Chattanooga!" never fails to get a laugh out of me
The rebs would have needed luck like that to win against him
@@Daedalus9393 Strategically - yes. Tactically - nah, a single Sherman's blunder was enough for Johnston to win the Battle of Kennesaw Mountain. But that didn't change a thing, because Sherman learned the lesson and continued to flank Johnston, making him retreat.
@@kristaskrastina2863 fair enough, I wasn’t so much trying to imply that he was the greatest commander of all time more that the confederate mythologization of their own commanders is largely unearned
@@kristaskrastina2863Essentially, the best comparison to Sherman I've seen in media is Gamera. Occasionally loses, pretty frequently does something absolutely terrible, but never loses the same way twice and is very easy to project as a hero when he opposes something even worse.
I'd like to formally apologize for what he just said about Judah P. Benjamin.
Lee: I'm going to mount this gigantic raid into Pennsylvania and suffer huge casualties in order to mount a campaign of no strategic significance! I am the best general!
Meade: Bring it.
Confederate: “No sir no, we were doomed from the start!”
Tyrion Lannister: “A stupid rebellion then”
Exactly. some are still sore losers 200 years after...
So said king George
@@MonteKristof Case in point. ^
@@Mw-tr2oz moving an army across the Atlantic isn't the same as moving it across the Potomac
@@jefft5824 I was going somewhere else with that statement
“God fights on the side with the best artillery”
- Napoleon
@Velstadt Hekkleson also god: lets make all of europe declare war on HIM not his nation. And make him lose because the russians ran away faster.
@@justingick4218 bro 1 French man from a small island fucked up Europe and north and South America
@Velstadt Hekkleson That is true and all, but you can never deny the fact he fought 60 battles and only lost 8 most at the end of his career, fought 8 coalitions and still won most of it.
@Velstadt Hekkleson I have never denied this. Of course I am aware, his tactics got old, and it is evident. Duke wellington could tell he had some antics in waterloo.
But again, I'm telling you that Napoleon was still a wise military leader. And spread a lot of revolutionary ideas across europe thanks to his empire.
Again, never denied he did stuff wrong, but neither should you deny that he had an incredible military career.
@Velstadt Hekkleson Napoleon won a war that he lost it was him against shit ton of countries
Nathan Bedford Forrest saying "the n*gro is the only labouring class we have" is one of the best examples of saying the quiet part loud I've ever seen
There was a civil war strategy game called "AGEOD's American Civil War", and it had one interesting aspect to it that I never saw other historical war games try.
Each general had 2 main stats: military (how good a general they were) and political (how well connected they were)
Dismissing a general took a big political toll depending on their political rating. A killed or dismissed general would be replaced by the next highest political rank.
McClellan had an awful military rating, but the highest political. A huge part of the Union strategy was maneuvering and building enough political capital to dismiss McClellan and replace him with someone better (Grant had the highest military, but a low political).
Basically, the Union player spent the early war pulling your hair out trying to uproot all the nepo babies running the Army of the Potomac.
The Union army was FULL of political generals, people who paid for officer commissions without any military experience. That is why they struggled so early in the war before the were able to oust them. Also McClellan was actually a decent commander but was too cautious which prevented the Union from pushing their advantage when they did get it. But when he did fight, he did quite well as compared to many other of the Union officers like McDowell or Burnside.
The game reflects almost exactly that. The Union spends the first one-third of the war fighting its own internal command structure politics almost more than it does the Confederacy.
@@rexblade504
Both armies had a lot of political generals (it was easy for a politician to raise a regiment or two under his command). Not all of them were ousted in the early stages - for example, General Dan Sickles was pretty decent until he was wounded at Gettysburg.
McClellan was a better strategist than a tactician. Also he had a very bad recon - that's why he had no solid knowledge on the opposing force and always thought he was outnumbered. Lee completely outgeneraled him at the Peninsula - but McClellan fully returned the favor in Maryland preventing Lee from achieving anything.
McDowell was a good Corps commander. As an army commander he was... average, not so bad. The First Bull Run was a mess simply because everybody was inexperienced.
Burnside was a lot better than people think :) North Carolina and Knoxville were his big achevements. The bridge at Antietam - it wasn't Burnside's fault that the recon screwed up and showed him the wrong ford. Fredericksburg - you should just trust the honest dude who declined THRICE and don't appoint him as an army commander :)
There's an old game from 1991 I used to play as a kid (and now play on DosBox) called No Greater Glory, which put you in Lincoln's or Davis' position. That game had generals with 3 stats: Initiative, Ability, and Prestige. Top 5 Union and top 3 Confederate generals in terms of prestige got mad if they weren't assigned the top 5 or 3 commands, and not doing that (or assigning a general to replace them with lower prestige) would result in losing loyalty in the political faction they belonged to and the region they came from. The trick was to manage your forces and your offensive and defensive assignments such that the generals with good ability rose in prestige while not damaging your loyalty. For the Union in particular this was tricky, since all the best generals were unknowns and all the high prestige ones (except for Halleck) had very low ability scores. It's also one of the few games that made McClellan useful. His ability of 4 (out of ten) meant that you could have him hold a position and reasonably expect it to be well defended, and his low initiative of 1 meant that you could order him to advance, pinning enemy forces in a location, but unless the troops had very high morale/experience, he wouldn't actually advance and risk losing a battle. His greatest liability, in other words, ends up being quite useful for feints. Really cool game that accomplishes a lot with very little.
@@TheLongTake Sounds cool. Is it playable by modern standards?
“Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”
- Sun Tzu.
Sums both sides decently.
Well, Grant's tactics and strategy allowed him to win the war in roughly a year once he was put in overall command. Sherman's March was an excellent usage of having both, and also helped speed up the war's end.
"I'm going to murder a bunch of prostitutes slaves to prove some kind of flawed point on discipline" - Sun Tzu
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease. Hence his victories bring him neither reputation for wisdom nor credit for courage."
"Cleverness has never been associated with long delays."
@@1337billybob there is no evidence that this story ever happened. Though it should be noted that the man we believe to be Sun Tzu did lose the war he fought in and his nation was destroyed
Honey wake up, new "Checkmate, Lincolnites!" epsiode just dropped
That’s me. Couldn’t click fast enough!
Also been waiting for this for so long. In England.
@@matthewjames1114 croatia for me
literally made my day seeing this pop up, time to sit back and chuckle about our American cousins
Final one
4:38
The argument that slavery wasn't THE issue for the South would have shocked the state governments that seceded.
Every state that seceded, passed a resolution giving their reasons for seceding. Every one of them mentioned slavery in their reasoning.
No exceptions.
Grierson is legit. He was not only an incredible commander, but he was known for his excellent reputation among his Black troops and sympathy with Indigenous tribes, at the detriment to the relationship with other white officers. He was unique among officers in either army.
There's a reason natives supported the confederacy
@@bocchithean-cap3404 Ah yes, because you can boil down the dozens of tribes that fought in the civil war (or adjacent to it) as "natives", different tribes fought for both sides, even individuals of the same tribe were split in support. The Dakota fought the Union, but they didn't fight for the confederates, weren't even allies. The five civilized tribes were somewhat split (despite them all having slavery), a majority of the seminole fought for the union, and sizeable minorities amongst the other 4 fought for the Union as well, and even a majority of cherokee and their leader supported the union despite the tribe fighting for the confederacy due to the support of the land owning elite. More neutral tribes would often use the war as an excuse to launch raids on and fight rival tribes, or even members of the same tribe using it fight local civil wars.
@@tntsummers926Seeing the profile pic, prior comments, as well as the tone of this one should tell you that the degen that you're speaking to doesn't care about native peoples... Or facts... Lol.
Everyone: "Mr. President, General Grant is a Drunk!"
Lincoln: "Well then, send a barrel of whatever he is drinking to the other Generals."
Grant was never given his due honor in American history, both as a president and a general.
His presidency was marred with corruption.
He is the most underrated president.
Generals: "Grant is reckless, a drunkard, and a butcher. He is unfit to lead!"
Lincoln: "I can't spare this man. He fights."
@@skinflutey I mean, all American politics was corrupt back then.
I think to remember something like this happened. Not exactly... But - and pleas correct me if I am wrong here - wasn't there something that some other generals were about to bad mouth Grant as a drunk to president Lincoln and he just shrugged it of and was like 'Now - in that case send HIM a keg of his favorite poison'
If Sherman spontaneously combusted I do believe he would run as fast as he could to get as much Georgia as he could
Or wherever there were some women and children.
@@kenabbott8585 cry more
@@averyn34
If I cried every time some Leftist celebrated rape, arson, looting, and cowardice, I'd have died of dehydration decades ago.
@@averyn34 WE BRING THE JUBILEE.
@@kenabbott8585 lol did he kill even a 10th as many women and children as were enslaved in Georgia? Like yea people in history suck, sorry bro
More about Grant and "his" slaves; all but one of the enslaved people that Grant managed *were not* his. They were his father-in-law's, only *loaned* to his wife specifically because his father-in-law suspected that Grant would free them if given the chance. He was regularly seen working in the field with them, which put off his more conservative neighbors, and refused to beat them (even when his wife prompted him to do so).
As for William Jones (the one time his father-in-law actually gave him ownership)? When Grant freed him, he was in the deepest financial distress of his life, and he could have made a killing selling Jones at a slave market, money that would have supported him and his family when they were on the brink of destitution. Grant stood by his morals, even at great cost to himself and his family.
One final note, about General Orders No. 11; Grant would spend the rest of his life atoning for that mistake, including by appointing a record number of Jewish Americans to office during his time as President (as well as a record number of African-Americans and other minority groups). His sincerity may well be judged by the fact that one of the pallbearers at his funeral was a Rabbi.
Hey Peter I have one question. I don’t fully because I’m still studying Grant but when he was president. The situation with the black hills with native Americans that led to Custer last stand. I’m the situation with the black hills did grant have good intentions for the Indians and was just naive because people took advantage of his trust or was he basically abused the Indians in every opportunity? Im just trying to understand
@@user-oh6eg4ny3h Grant's attitudes towards the native Americans were complicated. He was genuinely concerned for their well-being, but unfortunately he was still very much a product of his time and culture and believed that the best thing for them was to be "civilized." It puts him ahead of other generals of his time - such as, unfortunately, Sherman - who worked to violently expel the tribes from their homes, but still pretty backwards by our standards.
The situation with the Sioux in the black hills was also complicated. Grant actually traveled to the Indian Territory to speak with them (the first president ever to do so) and invited tribal leaders to the White House. His proposal for them was still not exactly enlightened; he wanted them to resettle somewhere else and assimilate into American society. It is important to recognize that, at the time, this was still a very liberal policy as plenty of other people simply wanted to exterminate them (not justifying the actions, just putting them in context). However, he was backed into a corner by white settlers ignoring government orders and ultimately went along with his more belligerent officers. To quote Ron Chernow's stellar biography:
"There was something profoundly contradictory about Grant's attitude toward the whole situation. In addressing Congress in December, he placed ultimate blame for what had happened to the Sioux on the white men: 'Hostilities there have grown out of the avarice of the white man who has violated our treaty stipulation in his search for gold.' All along he had ardently desired to bring justice to Native Americans. This raised questions of why Grant had caved in to greedy miners. To answer this, he invoked force majeure, saying that 'rumors of rich discoveries of gold' had drawn miners to the region and any effort to remove them would have led to desertion by the bulk of troops sent there. In other words, U.S. troops would have refused to thwart the miners, even under direct orders from the president. Thus Ulysses S. Grant, an advocate of a Peace Policy toward the Indians, found himself, willy-nilly, on the side of those raping their lands and violating a sacred treaty commitment. In the last analysis, Grant had to favor the American electorate and sacrifice the Sioux. It was a terribly ironic coda to a policy premised upon humane treatment of Native Americans."
It's also worth noting that Grant didn't particularly like Custer and wanted to remove him from command of the expedition after Custer publicly criticized him, but he was persuaded to relent by Sheridan.
@@peterlepper5199 o ok so In his head he thought he was “helping”. But in reality is was just letting the Indians assimilate into society because he thought there lives would be better in a “civilized world” I do know that he prevented genocide attempts which is good on his part at least.
I always find it fascinating that lost causers likes to say that Grant killed Indians, while conveniently forgetting that Lee and the rest of the Confederates fought for a government that was formed to explicitly enslave people.
Guess the whole "they were just fighting for hearth and home" does not apply when demonizing the North.........
Makes me think of the Revolution and Washington's brilliance not in winning battles but in tactical retreat. He lost battle after battle but was winning the war. Not flashy and "honorable warfare" but the long view.
now WASHINGTON was a massively overrated general who was poor or mediocre in most aspects aside from intelligence gathering and personal willpower/tenacity.
@@Xian109 he was pretty good with logistics to both his side and using it against the British.
Washington like only advantage is him being unable to lose, despite defeats,
@@nicmagtaan1132 a good reason for that was him knowing when to retreat and when to be cautious to not devastate his limited forces.
Lee lost more men in 7 days than Washington did in 8 years.
Taking big picture into account Washington lost very few battles in the sense he almost always had less casualties than his opposition (the British). His only real major defeat was Long island. Lee won very few battles for the same reason his only real victories were Bullrun, Chancellorvile and Fredericksburg
I continue to insist to this day that William Howe would've crushed Washington if he had been taking the war 50% more seriously. I for one used to believe the rebellion was the good guys and the British Armed Forces was the bad guys and since I know better than that, such a position is ridiculous.
“Longstreet.”
“We don’t talk about him.”
And that’s The problem.
Serous question why don't they? Longstreet seems like a brilliant commander and resourceful tactician from what I've read.
He knew what was happening.
@@kyleott6101 one of the best generals on either side, could even be argued that he was one of the best generals of the 19th century. i could go on im a big fan of Longstreet
Beats lee, beats Jackson, beats Grant, Beats Sherman beats Sheridan etc etc
@@kyleott6101 after the war Longstreet became a Republican Politician in support of Grant who was his friend from the army before the civil war. He was also very critical of Robert E. Lee’s performance in the civil war. He also lead the Louisiana State Militia against the White League in the Battle of Liberty Place. Basically he tried to distance himself as much as he could from the confederacy after the war and Lost Causers hate him for that
@@kyleott6101 Because they wanna blame him for all of Lee's failures like the battle of Gettysburg
BLACK CONFEDERATES! BLACK CONFEDERATES!
Legit laughed when he did that.
Well to s point: they were black and did serve the confederacy. So he was not wrong. While maybe not listed infantrymen, they did serve. Much like a cook, medic, or spy in the military of that time.
Now were they listed regulars? Thats a different topic.
@@dustinjacks9087
Yes yes we've all seen his video on that topic.
@@dustinjacks9087 slaves working for an arm is very different to slaves serving in an army
There was a highly rated black Creole Militia in New Orleans that wanted to fight but were refused. New Orleans at the time had good race relations.
@@dustinjacks9087, Check out the Fold3 you can see thousands of Black Confederate enlistment cards as infantrymen and calvary men. Too many people assume that they were not given guns but thousands were and we still have the records of them as well.
Grant's Overland Campaign is generally misunderstood as merely an extended battering of Lee's army, but it was actually a brilliant capitalization upon the Union Navy's control of the Virginia coastline. At every moment from The Wilderness to Petersburg, Grant kept his army in constant supply from the sea, constantly blocking Lee's path toward Washington, while moving steadily south. Lee must have thought he was chasing Grant across Virginia, but Grant was actually dragging Lee toward Richmond, the most important industrial center in the Confederacy, and thus the key to ending the Civil War.
Only a man with a profound understanding of logistics would have designed the Overland Campaign. Moreover, Grant's decision to go after Petersburg rather than storm Richmond after Cold Harbor, as Lee expected of Grant, shows how much Grant realized that Lee's ability to hold out in Richmond -- for that matter, the amount of time the population of Richmond could resist reincorporation into the United States -- depended on the Almighty God of Supply. If Johnston had commanded the Army of Northern Virginia, Grant's climatic battle might have been at the North Anna River, where instead, Lee allowed the Army of the Potomac to cross unopposed.
Exactly, Grant was a greater master of maneuver than most people give him credit for. He was always making sure his supply line were open while making sure to cut off his enemies.
@@wolftamer5463 - It wasn't just maneuver. Grant's great campaigns, Vicksburg and Overland, were waged with an eye toward remaining in supply, while cutting his enemy off from supply. It would not tarnish his reputation, and I don't think it would offend him, to call him "The Quartermaster's General." Perhaps that's why Grant took on the role that George Marshall did in WWII, coordinating the entire American campaign on behalf of a victorious U.S. government.
@@pacificostudios Grant spent a lot of time as Quartermaster during his first stint in the Army before resigning, experience that was invaluable to him once rejoining during the War of Southern Aggression.
@@TahnTheDorn - That's a good point. Handing out rations and ammo and uniforms and animal feed to soldiers would have made him conscious that these things do not appear amidst an army by magic. Moreover, the best time to think about resupply is not when you are about to run out of supply. During the siege of Richmond, the amount of supplies stacked up a City Point, Virginia became prodigious, and army bakers were making immense amounts of bread every day for the men.
The tactics didn't go as well as he hoped thanks to that terrain, but the strategy was flawless- keep flanking Lee, but in the direction of Richmond. Lee said that if Grant reached Petersburg, he would be in serious trouble. Sherman was doing the same thing with Johnson towards Atlanta, and Atlanta itself had a frustrating siege until Johnson's unpopularity got him replaced. If Lee hadn't gotten his stellar reputation or had an army more like Johnson's in size,, Petersburg would have fallen before Atlanta.
Man, I wish more people would bring up Grant's brilliance during Lee's retreat from Petersburg and Richmond in the days leading up to the surrender at Appomattox. Those four or five days were an absolute masterclass of maneuver by Grant and General Sheridan, and despite Lee's best attempts, the remnants of the AoNV were effectively surrounded. Grant may have fought a war of attrition from the beginning of the overland campaign to the end of the siege of Petersburg, but it was that brilliant campaign of maneuver that prevented Lee from reaching Johnston and effectively closed the book on the Confederacy. Much is made of Lee's tactical brilliance and his affinity for maneuver. But very few seem to recognize that every time Grant fought that same way, he did so with greater effectiveness and better results than his Southern counterpart. Anyone who looks at the records of both generals without an agenda must conclude that, of the two, it is Grant who displayed the greater skill.
LOL. Lee danced his forces around several larger armies with minimal losses, and we're supposed to call this a "masterclass of maneuver" by his enemies?
@@kenabbott8585 🙄
@@kenabbott8585 🤡
@@balabanasireti
Is that your substitute for actual facts or argument?
@@Me-yq1fl
"Ken Abbott It is easier to maneuver a smaller army than a larger one"
LOL. So your argument is that the smaller army is more likely to win?
Sadly, that's not the dumbest argument you've made today.
"Except that the massacres, mass rapes, looting, and oppression were greatly exaggerated, and Union soldiers were much more well-behaved than most armies would be"
LOL no. Absolute bullshit.
"And slavers cannot complain about being 'oppressed'. You cannot oppress oppressors."
You mean like the side that had more slave states when the invasion began?
The side whose president tried to make slavery a permanent part of the Constitution?
The side whose terrorist generals supported and took part in slavery?
Or were you just throwing out some race-card bullshit because you're not smart enough to effectively defend terrorism and you're not decent enough to not try?
I now choose to believe that neo-Confederate war historians have nightmarish hallucinations about Ulysses S. Grant whenever someone brings him up.
They also have panic attacks whenever they see fire and scream "AH, IT'S SHERMAN! RUN!"
I think they focus on sherman so much as to avoid the mention of Grant's name.
@@WardudeProxies if they speak his name they might get his attention and nobody wants that.
Copium does that to your brain
Why would they when Grant had to use twice as many soldiers to win and still lost a good portion of battles? Also Sherman was nothing compared to even the most mediocre Confederate general and that is just facts.
“Clan leader”
“Repentant clan leader”
“Well that’s ok then”
One of my favorite parts of the video
It makes me laugh every time I see this video
That's Southern Logic for you.
He was just a clash player
The real KKK not modern saved the South from being exterminated by the Radicals
@@edwardclement102 by radicals do you mean people who want a fair and equitable society?
POV:you're looking for the neo-confederates comments
Looking for people who sleep with a Robert E Lee body pillow
Looking for the people with a blood sodium level higher than the Dead Sea
South, "We had the best generals and soldiers!"
North, "And they couldn't beat us. We even had one arm tied behind our back, and our commander was an alcoholic."
"...Our BEST commander was an alcoholic".
More soldiers
More gear
More supplies
Used terrorism.
"One arm tied behind our back."
Uhhhhhh yeah.
Bruh the South absolutely used terrorism as well. 21:13. At least watch the video before trying to frame the North as "the big meanies who used tactics like being better and terrorism" when the South were literally racists using blacks as cannon fodder and committing terrorism as well. Just laugh about the North beating the South with an alchohalic because the South fucking sucked lmao
@@kenabbott8585ah yes another southern hypocrisy. Accused one another of terrorism while slaving millions of people just because they were born of a different skin color. Like how idiot you could be, you seems to forgot that even before the civil war your pro slave state responded with violence against abolitionist. Like harrassment and burning down their property. The Fugitive Slave Act ironically violate the state right's of the free state. Seems like the South only main contribution to the US is their never ending hypocrisy.
@@kenabbott8585also you will have more soldier if half of your population aren't slaves.
"I had black friends during the civil war how could I possibly be a member of the Klan?" Forrest.
He owned slaves who willingly joined his cavalry brigade and given their freedom and some money at the end of the war. Then he joins the klan😳 then he resigns because of the violence. When he got old he joined the fight for black civil rights. His story is amazing. A huge character.
@@asuperstraightpureblood I think today we would rightly call that a "grifter." He had whatever point of view benefitted him at the time. And as for "willingly," are you fucking serious? They didn't "willingly" do shit. THEY WERE SLAVES. Even if you ask a slave what he wants, he's not REALLY free to tell you anything but what you want to hear, or what he thinks you want to hear.
"I had black *employees* " :P
@@asuperstraightpureblood slaves?? Willingly?? Do you even hear yourself??
@@collinsagyeman6131 given the choice to remain on plantation or go out on cavalry raids they CHOSE....
Forrest: “Now I’m not a racist; I have many African American friends that agree with me…
“But-“
Forrest: I'm not racist. The people I own will vouch for me.
Forest 2024
"i just think they'd be happier if they all subjucated to us under thr3@t uh deth"
"sir as your lawyer you shouldn't have said that"
Forrest Gump is a saint you bastard!
“What do you mean they’re slaves”
I love when an ad plays at the perfect moment.
“Now Billy Yank you know he gave a speech to a black civics organization in which he said…”
YOU CAN NOW GET TWO SIZZLIES FOR $5
The issue with the Confederacies tactics reminds me as a World War II-focused Historian on the issue the Axis had particularly Japan. They thought they could win the in one big decisive battle which constantly led to them losing ships and resources they couldn't afford to lose. While the Allies almost fell into this trap with Operation Downfall, they mostly focused on achieving actual strategic objectives like seizing vital islands keeping the route to Australia open etc.
Yamamoto was right; Imperial Japan was truly lost when they provoked the United States.
Well, Downfall would have been different; there was literally nothing else left to attack. Practically every island that Japan had held was either captured or blockaded; the navy was down to one old battleship, no cruisers, and a singe digit number of destroyers; and every single flyable aircraft was in the home islands.
@@Shaun_Jones But they could still turn Japan into Berlin or Leningrad. They had every citizen ready to fight off an invasion and had their best tanks (read: Ones that could actually counter the Sherman) on the home islands plus jets.
@@emberfist8347 you can’t just take a battle plan that worked for a single city and scale it up to a landmass the size of California. It would have taken years, possibly decades, to starve out Japan. Besides, both Leningrad and Berlin show that that doesn’t always work. Leningrad held out for years and was still standing when relieved; Berlin eventually had to be stormed, block-by-block, house-by-house; it was some of the most brutal and costly urban fighting of the entire war.
@@Shaun_Jones That was my point about having a conventional fight over the Home Islands would be a costly victory at best or a defeat at worst.
I really liked when the Confederate sympathizer said out loud he likes talking about military history divorced from other subjects because it's more comfortable and safe than the whole picture.
Kinda gives the whole game away, huh?
"Why do we have to talk about this whole 'religion' thing when discussing the Crusades?"
‘’Why do we have to talk about warcrimes? i just want to talk about the Roman Empire! And how cool the romans were!”
"Why do we have to talk about the Holocaust or War crimes, I just wanna talk about the Wehrmacht and how cool the Tiger is!"
Honestly at this point Johnny Reb makes me think of an abused child who convinced himself his parents were great and nothing was wrong but is now being told how shit his life was and can’t handle it… is that why lost causers are so scared to let go they don’t wanna be seen as ancestors of slavers and rebels?
Yes, Grant did win by having superior numbers. Part of winning a war is to know your advantages and use them.
Having superior numbers doesn't hurt, but it's HOW you use them that matters most. Look at Thermopylae. Numbers counted for nothing when they tried to charge a tiny bottleneck. The Persians only won because they were tipped off about an alternate route that allowed them to surround the Spartans. Grant had the numbers, the equipment, and the creativity to win important strategic victories, and all with lower casualties (both in percentage and numbers) than Robert E. Lee. He didn't just throw men at an enemy position until the rebels ran out of bullets.
@@pyromania1018 Were the Persians tipped off, or properly scouted out the alternate route? Don't blindly trust nationalistic propaganda. ;)
@@ElBandito they were tipped off by another soldierfighting alongside the spartans, as it wasnt just 300 spartans but an additional 2-4000 troops coming from other greek states. One thought the war was already lost, so let the persians in exchange for a more peaceful overtaking rather than a ransacking of Greece as the Persians promised when the Spartans acted like… well spartans
@N Fels True, it was 300 Spartans, over 1,000 slaves, and many others who don't get much focus against an army that certainly didn't number almost 2 million. And it may have indeed been a scout rather than a traitor. But you get what I mean, right? Under the right circumstances, numbers count for nothing. It's how you use them that matters.
You are correct that the Spartans were not as formidable as they were portrayed as: once other Greek city-states started using proper tactics and strategy, they mauled the Spartans with hardly any losses, kind of like how Grant acted like a proper general instead of a wannabe movie star. They also spent considerable resources oppressing a slave population: that "wolf" was, in actuality, a random slave minding his own business.
@@pyromania1018 what you are saying about using superior numbers, I completely agree with. Look at McClellan, burnside, hooker they all have superior number and “merely failed to win!”
The army of northern Virginia was willing to fight to the last drop of North Carolina blood.
Best comment ever!
Genius.
'sultry balmy beautiful south' is a VERY generous descriptor for "100 degrees with 80 percent humidity and rife with mosquitoes and palmetto bugs"
Don't forget the year-round hurricane season.
As someone who gets terrible nosebleeds in dry weather, I like the South’s humidity.
They were SO good, they engaged in a highly advanced and intricate tactic known as losing.
Great quote, even for today.
So Hannibal Barca was a bad general simply because he lost the war due to logistics?
Just say '"I dislike the confederates and will do anything to discredit them even if the implications I am making are false " instead of the mental gymnastics.
@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 it was a joke mate😂 Settle down
@@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 Hannibal lost because Rome was to stubborn not because of logistics.
@@jetcraneboyd4278 he lost because of logistics. The sheer amount of manpower they could field overwhelmed him
"Grant was an alcoholic who was always drunk"
"So you admit you lost to a drunk man?"
NOT LIKE THAT!
/S
@@joepetto9488 ouch
I love this series so much. I love how you break down misinformation without glorifying important figures. When Union commanders and/or soldiers do reprehensible things, you call them out on it. Plus you correct any mistakes you make!
"Naval Power? What board game were you playing?"
You have no idea how badly I wanted to see a world of warships sponsor right there.
Why did your charge at Gettysburg fail?
"I've always thought the Yankees had something to do with it" ~General Pickett
I love that quote.
Wait, what? Did Pickett actually say it was Meade's fault that Lee ordered a suicide charge?
@@burninsherman7196 The point is that the Union Army decided to shoot back, rather than just allow Pickett to walk across that field undisturbed.
@@were-owlinwisconsin4441 Ah yes, they can't shoot back because that would be unfair, instead they should just stand there and watch our army charge them. Of course.
@@burninsherman7196 I'd read that more as "they were better than us on that day and in that scenario" and not as "well d'uh, Meade made us do this crazy stunt that could not win".
“Just a minor hallucination”
“Do you…have hallucinations often?”
I’m DYING
Do you not??
Well, he's certainly subject to...
Delusions of grandeur 😎
*Pause*
"No."
Good generals think about tactics, great generals think about strategy, the best generals think about logistics.
I wonder how many military achievements Grant had where he was fighting a hangover during it. I can just imagine, “Just do it this way and win the damn thing, all this gunfire is killer on my headache and on soldiers’ lives so make it stop.”
Grant never drank when on duty, so never. He saved the urge to drink for downtime-when on leave or for a day or two during a long siege.
"It's almost as if racism and the Civil War are interrelated." Simple and yet, frigging brilliant exposition.
From what I read not too long ago, the Lost Cause thing and Jim Crow South actually had Hitler and the Nazis in the 1930s believing it was a ripe spot for spreading their ideology (as they saw similarities between it and post World War I Germany). Their propaganda effort failed however, as the southerners at that time were primarily of Anglo descent and had strong anti-German sentiment from WWI and even many of them though the Nazis' antisemitism was highly controversial (at least one southern newspaper even awkwardly criticized Hitler for not congratulating American runner Jesse Owens in 1936, rather ironic considering what was going on there during that era). In the end, the frustrated Nazis focused as much effort as possible on the German American Bund.
@Leonard squirrel Only people with water on the brain say that.
@Leonard squirrel Do you even know what genocide is?
@Leonard squirrel We will always have the southern states treasonous acts in our history books. Statues honoring traitors will be in the dumpster where they belong.
If you encounter anyone who tries to claim that the war wasn’t about slavery and the confederacy wasn’t a white suptemacist organization, direct them to the Cornerstone speech. Neo-confederates try to rewrite history, but the actual confederates didn’t beat around the bush when it came to talking about their white supremacist beliefs. Also the letters of secession are riddled with slavery talk, some of them outright say that slavery is the main cause of secession.
That's always how I assumed Nathan Bedford Forrest exactly sounded actually.
Mr. Breast give me money
I loved how he showed that ridiculous statue of NBF when he was first mentioned
It's BeatMasterMatt...
Hey
Sup Mr beat
One of the most poignant moments of military history for me came from Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast on the Mongols: You can't separate the military from the atrocities that it enabled. Without the Confederate army, there is no civil war and slavery dies out. Without the Mongols, there is no destruction of Beijing and Baghdad. The armies enabled, and in many cases perpetrated, the atrocity.
Unless you are the Wampanoag apparently.
Oh, well then! Brutal but he wouldn’t have had to go to war if the English actually respected their end of the treaty they signed with Metacomet’s daddy Ousamequin and earlier Chief Massasoit.
I thought the Mongols founded the city of Beijing? And they did a lot of legitimately cool stuff...Baghdad was not one of them.
@@mitchellwright5478 Huh. Must have gotten that mixed up with a different city. True very true. Granted some of the claims against the Mongols/Genghis Khan were exaggerated or just plain false but still.
The look of pure terror on Johny Reb's face when mention of U.S.Grant was the topic,
"Lets switch to the Western theatre."
"You sure you want to do that?"
LOL
Hehe
**looks at General Grant* Oh boy...
Epic Knockout
Sherman if nukes were a thing: Nuke Atlanta
@@joepetto9488 Once again a neo-con twisting unverifiable events to fit their narrative. Imagine my surprise.
At General Sherman's funeral, Joseph E Johnston kept his hat off as a mark of respect, despite the fact it was a cold wet February day in New York. Johnston argued "If I were in his place, and he were standing here in mine, he would not put on his hat." He died ten days later, of pneumonia.
Should'a worn the hat.
@@joepetto9488 idk they’re also kind of darkly comedic too, in the “this is terrible but I’m gonna laugh really loudly at it” way
How to achieve peak badass and peak dumbass in one action.
The one time he didn’t think about the big picture.
Even in death, Sherman killed a confederate.
“While Lee was busy defending Virginia to the last, Sherman snuck up behind him and rammed a boot up his *ss” Perfect description of the last couple weeks of the war.
Dude I just keep forgetting there’s only one person it’s so good
If Sherman had spontaneously combusted, I'm fairly certain he wouldn't have stopped running until he had personally burned Atlanta to the ground..
That is some fucking Fire Punch shit
William Tecumseh Sherman: the original Human Torch.
@@thomaskole9881 fun fact the robotic human torch was based off old blue prints made by général sherman himself
Billy Sherman, there human torch. Now that’s an anime I want to see.
I would argue that Sherman DID spontaneously combust in a way...his anger at the death of his favorite son due to disease from the war was, IMO, a serious motivation on his hardened views towards civilians and destruction in 1864 and 1865.
Not only was Grant a great general, he was so handsome that my mom named her firstborn son after him.
Thanks Mom.
Okay but did she name you Hiram or Ulysses or Grant?
@@jeansmith4053 That is an important question.
I get it...
Ulysses was going to be my middle name until my parents realized my initials were IUD.
@@itsmannertime Jesus
I like how Billy Yank, whenever Johnny Reb says something bad the Union or Union general / politician did, doesn't argue nor does he say it was good, but rather fully accepts that it happened and even explains the events about it while trying to understand it, in contrast to Johnny Reb who whenever he's told the Confederacy did something bad, either justifies it, makes a whataboutism claim, or denies it
Upon further review: you went with "Davisites" and I can't help but feel "Secessionites" would've rolled off the tongue more smoothly, even if its not exactly following the nomenclature conventions of "Lincolnites".
“Repentent clan leader”
“Oh well that’s ok then” 🤣🤣
I cackled
Best line in the series
"An honorable organization," like that somehow makes the racially-based terrorism better.
Interestingly, Hitler and Nazi Germany tried to stir up pro-Nazi sentiment in the 1930s South because they thought the prejudice and bitterness there would be ripe for spreading their ideology. It failed however because of anti-German sentiment from World War I (the Southerners were mostly of Anglo descent) and because even Southerners of that era thought that the Nazi antisemitism was highly controversial. Basically, hate canceled out hate.
@@thunderbird1921 It was from a comic special, but I think it was put best when the Joker teamed up with the Red Skull and then backstabbed him when he learned he was a Nazi: 'I may be a insane criminal, but I'm an AMERICAN insane criminal!' Paraphased from memory but still.
If you ever feel like you're slacking, just remember that it took Billy Yank and Johnny Reb seven months to play a single game of chess.
That is pretty quick for a correspondence game.
@@1brianm7 especially for one in the 1800s
I like that he brings up the Winter War because Simo Häyhä is the kind of soldier that lives up to his hype and deserves a couple statues, unlike most of the Confederate Generals.
I get this series is debunking Lost Cause arguments of all stripes, but it never ceases to amuse me that the goalposts shifted from "the war wasn't about slavery, the North victimized the South" to "the South was way better at fighting and totally would've won if the North didn't have strength in numbers."
Holy cow a 49 minute "Checkmate, Lincolnites" video on the 4th of July? This day can't get any better!
Yes, this was a wonderful Independence Day gift!
Thing about Grant being “a drunk” something that often gets overlooked is how we’re now coming to understand alcoholism as a disease and one that can be passed down through the family. Plus in the end Grant beat his alcoholism, in an age where drinking was far more ubiquitous than it is today
Its kinda funny. Literally everybody would be considered an alcoholic by todays standards as far as 19th century America goes.
@@rangergxi then wouldn't that make him worse? Being considered an alcoholic back then really meant you were *BAD*
@@vladdietheladdie7345 by what I’ve read Grant did have it pretty bad. He had a close circle who worked hard to help keep him clean, and throughout the war Grant didn’t go into the battle drunk. And eventually he beat his alcoholism…which I honestly find about as amazing as his time in the army and as President
@@vladdietheladdie7345 Actually, we're talking about a time when the Temperance movement had also picked up steam, so that makes it even harder to gauge how bad Grant's drinking was. Sure, a lot of people drank more and harder than we do today, but the people who didn't also had a more extreme reaction to anyone who was even visibly tipsy in front of others. (I do tend to believe the analysis that suggests that Grant didn't drink often but couldn't stop himself once he started, but do feel the influence of Temperance rhetoric gets overlooked regardless.)
@@erraticonteuse Especially when temperance, like anything else, was used as a political prop. At least some of the People accusing Grant of being a drunk were equally as fond of the bottle, and simply using the booze angle as a convenient character assassination vehicle.
I stood up and cheered when Ben Grierson was mentioned. Was waiting for it and I was not disappointed. Great calvary officer despite having to overcome a lifelong fear of horses due to being sent to Narnia via horsekick as a kid. He's a commander who can claim a winning record vs Forrest (::meatloaf voice:: "because 2 outta 3 ain't bad..."). Additionally his postwar conduct was honorable towards the buffalo soldiers and the native Americans. A solid stand-up guy.
One thing that might have contributed to Grierson’s success in that raid was that he brought along a few extremely lightweight artillery pieces. They were 2-pounder guns, and only weighed 256 pounds; four strong men could pick it up, and 8 strong men could carry it some distance if needed.
To add, Grant may have lost 55k in one battle but overall Lee had 55k more casualties in the War. Sorry but he was overrated and praised when Grant was being demonized when he was on his rampage to destroy the KKK by calling martial law in the streets of southern states,which I honestly believe got history to think Grant was bad at everything since he has been toward the bottom of the Presidents list til recently.
Grant's father was a know abolitionist which is the reason why his Father in law from missouri did not show up to the wedding, Grant was only a manager on the farm of his father in law because he honestly wasn't a successful man in pretty much anything other than horse riding and of course he'sin love with the daughter. He only got a slave as a wedding gift he never asked for or wanted in the first place and it was for a year and didn't treat him badly at all, infact when things got so bad he sold his watch to get his kids Christmas presents instead of selling the Man which was around 1k in that time in the south. Still poor with pretty much nothing he freed the man instead of selling since this wasn't his thing anyways.
Grant wasn't a abolitionist like his father, But what he has done with civil rights front can only be comparable to Lincoln.
Grant had a journey towards abolitionism through the war. He started out as thinking this whole thing was silly and being annoyed with Abolitionists. But by the end he was treating the black soldiers as same as the whites- when Lee refused to hand over black US soldiers captured in battle, saying they were property rather than soldiers, Grant called off the exchange. During reconstruction he was furious at President Johnson- while he was extremely merciful to Confederate soldiers after the war, he also wanted a fair policy towards freed slaves and wanted to give them a chance to prove themselves American citizens.
I thought the KKK wasn't formed until after the war.
All that and you didn't even mention Nathan Bedford Forrest's worst crime of all.
Appearing in Forrest Gump.
can you really mention the namedrop and a few frames of ... was that "Birth of a Nation" they showed him in? as "appearing in"???
also Forest Gump is okay. Not too historically accurate, but an impressive movie and keeping pretty well up for being 20 years old.
@@Ugly_German_Truths Umm... I think it was a joke.
@@Ugly_German_Truths 20 year check that math again....closer to 30
Crumbs - Forrest Gump is 30 years old and you youngsters think it's ancient history. Ouch.
"Holding up pretty well" indeed! The cheek!
...what’s wrong with Forrest Gump? Or are you being a contrarian for the sake of it?
At last, Atun-Shei's beard has grown long enough for another Checkmate Lincolnites episode
so we just will have to wait till he can get a Custer Mustache? :D
next episode Jackson's Beard is gonna look like a goatee.
I think that's actually what determines his upload schedule for these videos.
@@d.n5287 It is. It really is.
All jokes aside, it makes sense because of what the beard entails.
Every time I hear "he smashed the 11th Corp" I think, "the WHAT? At your casualty rates, good luck with the other ten armies..."
I feel like the people who claim the South had the better generals miss the forest for the trees. Sure it's easy to distill it down to "If the South had better generals, why didn't they win," but that kind of is the whole point; there's so much worship of the southern Generals, it begs the question, why couldn't they overcome the Union's overwhelming advantages and still win?
Ha! Forrest. Unintentional pun?
For those who found the nightmare inaudible: "Sir: Yours of this date proposing Armistice, and appointment of Commissioners, to settle terms of Capitulation is just received. No terms except unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted.
I propose to move immediately upon your works."
Thank you.
Thanks for this.
A reference to Grant's first great victory at Fort Donelson.
I have been studying the Civil War for 40 years and this is one of the few times that I have heard someone give General George Thomas his due. Undoubtedly the best General on either side.
He was fantastic, but I personally think Grant was the best.
Thomas was indeed great but I think the 2 best Union Generals were Grant and Sherman; and the 2 best Confederate Generals were Jackson and Forrest.
@@ITILII majority of the CSA generals were complete ass. Why the military named so many of their bases after some of the worst generals is beyond me.
Yes there were a ton of shitty Union officers and general at the start. The USA military at the time was mostly a office of status and standing, similar to the issues plaguing the British military hierarchy. That said, the one thing old Abe did was firing and forcing the shit generals out of the military, relatively quickly. After he cleared out the shit tier generals, those who Abe HAD to relay on were great.
The CSA just kept throwing their shit tier military generals out from end to end. General Bragg and Hood were terrible.
The only reason Thomas can't be compared to Grant or Sherman is due to his lack of influence; considering treatment towards him by his peers due to his heritage it's not surprising.
I always look at Thomas as the biggest what-if; what could he have pulled off had he been given more influence?
@@isaacsorrels4077 : Very insightful comment. Thank you for sharing it.
Imagine losing to a drunk, and staying bitter about it for the next century and a half. Skill issue.
Exactly, one hell of a grudge
HE WASN'T DRUNK ALL THE TIME lol, Grant drank some but who doesn't? Lee? Guy was a marble monument,, so straight-laced even his own officers thought he was crazy, and Jackson - a teatotaller AND a general who'd have his own troops not just executed for dubious instances of desertion, but actually blown apart by 57 caliber minie balls from 24 executioners in one case? Jackson didn't need to drink to be insane....
While Lee was grabbing the open land, Grant was grabbing the capitols.
"How is that humble pie?"
"It's a little dry..."
KIlled me
Explain
@@General_Rubenski "Humble Pie" is a term people say to mean that you have to figuratively eat your own words. That you were wrong or embarrased about something.
Say you brag that your local sports team is going to win the big game, the they get their asses kicked. You have to eat your humble pie.
Also sometimes refered to as "eating crow"
Making it a literal pie that the guy was literally eating was a funny little joke
@@bigrigjoe5130 It's also a meat pie made of the cast off parts of an animal so is the lowest quality possible.
Best thing I remember from History class was how Grant accepted Lee's surrender in his battle uniform while Lee was in his dress uniform, since Lee was thinking this was an "important historical moment" while Grant was busy with more important shit than listening to Lee
It was actually a funny twist of history, as Grant hadn't expected to see Lee so early and had ridden ahead of his HQ wagon that contained his better clothes - but vain til the end, Lee had worn a brand new uniform that had been sent to him.
What’s funny is how if the opposite were the fact, the criticism would still be on the later: “Grant showed up dressed to the occasion while Lee showed up like an unkempt slob.”
…Could you imagine if Hitler was fat? The field day people would have.
@@Garl_Vinland Hitler was shorter than his generals, and wouldn't have even met the height requirements to join the SS.
It was typical Grant. His uniforms would always be muddy and dusty because he led the men alongside them. Rarely putting on airs while getting his hands dirty.
@@luodeligesi7238 Dude was a trim man of average height
The pop up of THAT Nathan Bedford Forrest statue was perfect.
I love the positive treatment you gave Thomas. He is generally overlooked and criticized endlessly for his "slowness" in almost every civil war book around. He was so talented, it's high time we start acknowledging his excellence.
Also, Longstreet was right at Gettysburg. #TeamLongstreet
12:55 - In 2021, the former Dixie Brewery changed its name to "Fauborg Brewing Co.," and renamed its flagship beer similarly. Johnny is correct.
That demonic monolith voice reading of Unconditional Surrender is probably one of the greatest things I've seen on CZcams. My lungs are on fire.
I hope someone clips that
26:46
Do you have a transcript? It got a little hard to understand?
@@rileyknapp5318 it’s the unconditional surrender quote by Grant.
@@rileyknapp5318 Yours of this date proposing an armistice and the appointment of rommissioners to settle on the terms of capitulation is just received. "No terms except unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted. I propose to move immediately on your works...."
“No no no no no, Sherman is but the apprentice. He, is the master” I lost my shit, that bit was great 🤣
Always two there are, No more, no less. a master and an apprentice. :D
Was most of that supposed to be intelligible? I was basically only able to understand the same that Google was with the subtitles.
@@zeroone8800 it was Grant's order for unconditional surrender.
AAAAAAWAY DOWN SOUTH IN THE LAND OF TRAITORS
@@hussamgunter7381 Rattlesnakes and alligators,
Right away! Come away! Right away! Right away, come away!
Grant vs. Lee brings to mind one of my favorite internet turns of phrase; 'You wouldn't use a rapier in the same situation you would use a folding chair
I always love to rewatch this series, it still amazes me how nicely the dialogue and visuals fit. Also you pick up the small things on rewatches like the whiskey glass coming from off screen and it make it seem like there’s an actual conversation between two different people going on.
Right before Forrest’s speech to the Black Civic’s Union part of the video. It said “Nathan Bedford Forrest said” then it cut to an Arby’s commercial saying “new chicken nuggets every day value” and now I’m just imagining him shouting about chicken nuggets to a crowd of black political leaders.
🤣🤣🤣
Nothing better to defuse tensions than good old chicken nuggets.
Do you know how many likes I wish I could give you
I got a Papa John’s ad
@@PanzerLord ironic… isn’t it…
26:47 For those who couldn't understand what Billy was saying during Johnny Reb's "hallucination", he said these words written by Ulysses S. Grant to General S.B. Buckner at Fort Donelson:
Sir:
Yours of this date proposing Armistice, and appointment of commissioners, to settle terms of capitulation is just received. No terms except unconditional and immediate surrender can be accepted. I propose to move immediately upon your works.
I'm just saying this in case no one said this yet.
Unconditional Surrender Grant
thanks
Thank you for your service.
Whats most ironic out of all of this is that Buckner was named after a Latino
Basically;
Give up your shit, I'm fucking coming.
13:44 fun fact, middle tennessee state university has a building named Forrest Hall after this guy. there's been an ongoing effort to change it for years. historical commission is meeting soon, students are doing a lot to make it happen this year