Big Block Ford Budget Head Porting for Big Power!!!
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- Today I dive back on the Edelbrock Victor Jr 460 heads to begin the process of using @DavidVizard 5 Golden rules of head porting without using a Flowbench to get major Gains! I'm doing these for my buddy Jason Black and he wants to outrun CASPER with Rowdy Blue.... Stay Tuned
#ford #460 #edelbrock
Unity Motorsports Garage Merch!!!
www.merchantsofspeed.net/coll...
Catch you later! - Auta a dopravní prostředky
That 632 cid
My brain is still melted about that engine.
It sounded kind of like an electric motor on the Dyno.
Unreal man
Hey Andy great video, you should do one on camshaft selection and the math for it on the big block ford when your done with the head videos
It was just great to hear your voice again. Been a while. 👍👍👍
I've been covered up at work... it's good to be back
Andy
Nice developments going on here 🙈
The big block Ford doesn't get the credit it deserves stock bottom end with aftermarket heads can make 600 hp
I wish there more done about
It from DV high torque low rpm
They last on a cheaper build
They have over the ones I am you have seen few I believe it your auto tech teacher had a nice
They are overlooked forsure! Even a Nicely ported set of Dove heads will make 600hp!
Andy
Excellent video
Thanks for the kind words and for watching Bob
Andy
Looking good!
I might be attempting the same here soon 😂
Thank you and David so much for this video explaining this stuff. I have the book, but seeing it on video really helps explain it all
I watched DV’s videos on (Area Ruling)
See Andy Buddy - I even know the lingo.
Flow Balls - Area Ruling
For me the fun will be playing with the stock cast iron heads too.
The best practice too.
So you don’t trash a set of high $$$$ Trick Flow or AFR heads
Good tech Andy.
Very good explanations for what you do.
You were the student and now you're a teacher. 👍
Take care, Ed.
Thanks for the kind words Ed!
Classic ending!
Casper 2 we can call her
The 2024 F150
Great video Andy!
Andy ,loved how you made DAVID laff ,I did to !love the channel, David's as well ,TOP NOTCH INFO
The flow ball makes so much sense, man. I will use a marble and clumsy fingers and use these ideas on my 4V Clevland heads because these are fundermental, no doubt.
Cast iron or aluminum?
@@lynnrunningdeer7364 Iron, new castings. From, Speed Master. Looked down on here in Oz, as to them been China castings but machined in the U.S.A or Oz, so i inderstand. Considering the Ford offerings are like $4000 a rooted pair; they can punch it. The old stuff would be =ucked! And at $850 Au / bare head, which at $0.65 US/ Au; is one of the jokes called money over here; is great value. Also no CHI 4V available, after the shutup. They look fine to me and are copies of the Ford iron 4V Clevland head.
@@MsKatjie yeah they’re copies all right bastards love copying other peoples parts. Look at the video on. Broader Performance was selling their garbage valve bodies to summit with the Broader Performance stamping on there.
Thanks Andy!! That definitely helps me out and sheds some light on what I need to do😁👍👍
Good film i have werk on Brodix 11X Heads Ported them hope I did The jobb Nice.. Volym tested tou 2.08×1.60 valve.215 intake volym..
Another quality video!
Thanks Brother!
Andy
Great video Andy! I made a set of flow balls from some ball bearings and some tig rod. I just welded the end of the rod to the bearing and voila.
Excellent !!!
That Head is pretty nasty where the chamber meets The quinch
Great video, first time I've seen the use of flow balls was back in early to mid 80s, on a motorcycle cylinder head by Bill Alexander, he was using a stiff piece of close hanging with a lead fishing line weight, really cool, I like the one that your showing on the video, I have one I made several years back but doesn't have the offset the DV has. Thanks for the video.
Great vidja 🤙🏼
I have a few sets of bbf heads laying around, i might have to give this a try!
The higher you can wind your Boss The more power it will make. I think heads with that much rotation want to make power high up in the RPM range
Also, as with David Visard's videos, your videos are waaaaaaay too good to be so short. I'm sure I speak for all your viewers when I say I'd rather have longer, more in depth videos. We'd all love to just absorb your knowledge! Just drink it in!!😊
My family is a welding Family. Can one make these "Flow Balls"? awesome video
I soldered a 1/4" piece of 1/4" o.d. brass tube to a wire. Not as wonderful as a flow ball, but its what I had.
One could use different sizes of bearing ball welded or soldered to a stiff wire (?).
@@theblackhand6485 I think so. Just remember....you have to open the valve about .33 to get a .25 ball through it which for some stock cams is already 75% of the lift.
Great videos Andy. A quick request or recommendation for content that I'm sure a lot of us would love to see by someone with your knowledge. Is taking a set of 460efi heads F3TE castings which are the last of their kind and probably the best OEM heads made for the 460. There is a lot of untapped potential to start the heads have high rise exhaust ports among other unique features. You should take a look Sr.
Question is? Andy is there a big block in your future?
No, unfortunately these are going on a buddy's engine in which he wants to outrun MIXED UP BOSS
Andy
Aiir might be heavier than you think, but fuel is heavier and can be pulled out of suspension.
You are correct, Airspeed is very important to keep this happening
Andy
..to keep the suspension happening, I'll guess you meant?
Is it more advantageous to install a larger intake valve on the BBF or to un-shroud the chamber. I'm assuming when you go from a 2.11" to 2.19 or 2.25" there isn't much room left on the shrouded side to contour the port. I put in some 2.19" intakes and was afraid to take off material from the tight side. I wish this video would would have been out there before! Thank you Andy and David!!!
Shine on crazy diamond.😂
It's being used alot when I done my dovec with scj vaulves it flowed supper
@Andy: Very well explained. Thank you.
You talked about the expansive flow balls. I thought you would name an alternative for the home hobbyist.
- So what do we take instead of the flow balls (...which are actually great aka miracle tool!).
You make your DIY a flow ball by tic welding a ballbearing ball in to a thin metal stick
You can also buy a mini bar bell type double ended ball set that is used by cake decoraters. Really cheap if you buy them online
"You're killing the compression"
-Skim head. Problem solved.
A bit. Skimming has its limitation due to it changes the chamber and position of the valve stem towards the valve train aka tappets.
Valve train geometry would get thrown out of whack and the intake manifold wouldn't fit right either
Andy, learned something on Dragboss live chat last night with Gerald. Big Chief G.M. aftermarket heads were based off Ford 429 CJ's.
Found this surprising. The 385 Ford Head design was always shunned by serious racers. Ed Prout ran a pair of early Factory Experimental Wedge Aluminum Heads he bought off of Nicholson in a 385 powered Pro-Maverick in '73/'74. The heads were substantially different from the O.E. stuff. Best times with the car was in the 9.30-9.40 range. Time for the Cleveland Pinto!
That is pretty cool stuff!
Thanks for watching Bill
Andy
I’d like to see these same principles applied to a Cleveland big valve head
Canted valve design is similar to the 385 Series, BBC and more or less the Dodge poly heads. Yes the ports are different, but look for similarities. For the DV cam LSA selection, I believe you replace the 128 with 132. Canted valve requires a bit more LSA, which I believe is overlap and bleeding intake charge out the exhaust rather than pushing the exhaust out.
Hey Tom, with you there. The Clevo, being the little brother, to the 385 { in my humblest opinion }. When we talk about the 4V quench head and the one Andy just worked on, they are very similar. The exhaust "pad " is a great idea, as are the rest of Andy's tips.Unreal stuff! Wish we had more Big Blocks, Oz side. We will just have to make do with 335's. We did built them, when stuff was made in the West!
Thanks for the outstanding training videos! Where can I buy a flow ball?
Thanks for the kind words!
Here is a link for you
jamisonequipment.com/machine/flowball-set
Aren't smooth surfaces 'sticky' and a bit rougher surface 'smoother ' due to boundary layer issues?
That's how I'm trying to help guide air around my bendy intake manifold.
Yeah, when the surface is smooth a layer of fluid or air, or both, builds up and slows down the majority of the air/Fula flow. Thus creating a small port.
With a rough surface the mixture will jump from one bump to another because it can't stick. It's like smal waves in the water with strong winds. You see the top of these waves come off/blown off and thus going faster due to wind force while the wave itself follows its own pattern.
Ever noticed the dimples on a golf ball? These dimples allow the air to not have as much surface area that causes drag.
On the series "Myth Busters", the guys took a car and put modeling clay over the surface. This was to see if dimples would improve gas mileage. The first test was smooth clay, and the second runs was with dimples and the left over clay was placed inside the car to keep the weight the same. After comparing, when the dimples was introduced, gas mileage improved enough to see a fairly measured difference.
Reduce surface area, improve efficiency.
T- Bird 1985
I want a Fox Body Thunderchicken
With 460cid
I’m special ordering a F150 too
XL - regular cab - 8’ bed
Coyote 5.0
The modern tribute to Casper
How far do you open the valve for the flow ball? Can’t wait for the rest of the series! Also the iron Dove heads will flow 330cfm on the intake and around 200cfm on the exhaust with quite a bit of work, which isn’t too bad for an iron head. Pretty close to the edelbrock at least
Also imported is not only the lift of the valve while using the flow ball but the size of the flow ball too.
I'll guess you secure the lifted valve with a tight rubber hose on the stem/spring side (?).
I'll guess that you open the valve up as high as the used flow ball. Let that be a 3 mm? This flow ball will aventually get stuck at the narrowest point,, I'll guess. So there you need to grind meat off. After let's say the use 3 mm flow ball you go one size bigger etc. But hey, I'm still guessing.
Any toughts on a 72' 400ci cleveland 2bbl "LTD" engine. I bought a 58' Meteor Rideau 500 wich is the Canadian version of the Fairlane 500 and somewhere in its life they swaped the engine from a 72 LTD. I read a bit on it and opinions on it are from a boat anchor to a great engine. It must be very torky with that 4" stroke. It must be heavy for that light car. Working let say on a budget like most of DIY backyard garage with a single father budget doesnt let me buy chromed parts and big fancy dual carbs tunnel rams. In fact i dont even know if its worth spending money rebuilting it. It's gonna probably my youngest girl. My oldest one wants the 65 GTO. Don't worry, they are not gonna be Joe Dirt car but the next best resto-mods car. They understand "Fancy" don't bring you home more safely. I need a transmission to for it. There are not a lot of C6 or C4 running down the streets this times around. Any suggestions ? As for high school girls daily driver engine that's not gonna ruin there Old father from gazoline price? Is the 400ci cleveland worth it or not? Does 429ci heads fit and any better? I got Basicaly 6 years to finish the 58 Meteor and reading a lot as first things . And trying to decode Ford engine #Casting numbers. Lol
T Meyer makes a stroker kit to about 440 cu inches. He claims that about 700hp can be achieved best I recall 108 race gas with high compression. Price Motor Sports makes adapter plates to put 351C intakes and even a 302 Winsor intake for modern fuel injection or even a Weiand 174 single carb blower. The 400 is a tall deck Cleveland.
The 400 was the engine that replaced the FE engines and was the engine of choice when the weight of a 429/460 was an issue. The problem with the 400 was the EPA killing it with smog emissions.
You can run a 351C hot cam, just have to get the proper length push rods for the rockers. All the heads are the same (except the 4V head which was only factory on the 351C,but will bolt right on the 400). The 351M/400 is the same as the 2V heads on the 351 Cleveland. The distributor is the same as the 429/460. The crank and rods from the 351C and the 351M/400 ***do not interchange***. Another thing to watch for is the bellhousing. There were a few early years that had dual C4 & big block C6 bellhousing patterns. But the majority has big block pattern. Matter of fact, a 429/460 transmission with bellhousing can be interchanged. But, all the C4's are small block patterns and there are C6's that are small block as well. I have a 70 mustang 302 with a C6.
The C4 has a removable bellhousing and the C6 bellhousing is solid from the bellhousing to the mount point of the tail shaft. But, if you have a built C4, you can now get aftermarket big block bellhousing for it, you just have to run a special converter.
If you look up Ford 400 engine, Wikipedia has some great info also about what years these blocks had water jacket cracking issues also. But I think this was limited to a few years and was the blocks used for the 400. And the 351M block was just a destroked 400 and was nothing more than a marketing another engine option. So, if you come across a good 351M and wanted to make that 440 stroker that was mentioned before, well it can happen for you.
Hope this help.
Please for your sanity and ring land's sake; DO NOT use open chamber heads, be they 2V or 4V. I say use and love your 400. Lucky you, Sir. Wish i had the block!!!
Andy showed a blue fluid which he uses for marking his work.
- Did he say 'Dye com'?
- What is the proper name for this fluid?
BBF is a dinosaur, so am I.
Good video. Andy in regards to intake shrouding, would a smaller valve flow more and make more
Power? What is peak rpm range for engine?
Uh no. The valves need to be as big as possible. The RPM range depends solely on engine manufacturers and size. The smaller the engine the higher RPM you can turn. Also material and balance is also a determining factor. Think of valves of trying to breathe through a stuffy nose.
A bigger valve has by first lift a bigger area to let mixture throug. After a surten point it doesn't really matter. But overall it does. Then finally the hight of valve lifting plays a role. Thus the momentum it is fully open .
@@lynnrunningdeer7364 that is not true. In fact smaller valve can make better power and raise the torque curve. Less shrouding with a smaller valve. I will post a video about that with explanation by Darin Morgan. With a cleveland 2.19 is too big unless your pulling over 7k.
That is exactly right Tim! The problem is actually fitting the proper size valve in the chamber to not be hindered with shrouding.. That is a tough task when working with the stock architecture!
Andy
@@theblackhand6485 it may be bigger, but not always letting more in.
Lol. Thanks guys🍺🌄
Thank you for watching!
Andy
What determines the size of the flow ball used? Great video!
Valve lift off the seat. If you lift 0.125" off the seat, you use a 1/8" or 0.125" flow ball. Get the shrouding cleaned up to left the ball pass past the valve edge. In his porting book and one video DV explains a no go area that you do not want to touch. Then open the valve to 3/16" or 1/4" and clearance around the valve. Be careful not to grind into the gasket area. My personal feeling is to blue the heads in the cylinder wall area and then install with one bolt to hold them. The scribe around the bore and then do not grind past this. Just safer in my mind.
You can unshroud the valves at low lift and not get into the gasket area by undercutting. Sonic thickness checking is a good idea as you do not want to get thin there.
I'll guess the radius of the chamber wall at its narrowest point. Because you have no room behind the valve the wall comes almost straight up. There must be a small radius though. So one pickes a small flow ball. ...I'll guess.
@@theblackhand6485Start with 3/16" lift and flow ball. Make the chamber to allow the flowball to pass all around the valve. You can undercut the chamber wall as long as it is thick enough. Just do not get into the cylinder wall area. Once you get the 3/16" flowball going most of the way around, step up to a 1/4" flowball and repeat. There is an area between the intake valve and the quenchpad that you do not want to grind.
For the exhaust you want to grind the little ridge between the quenchpad and exhaust valve to help get the flow directly out the valve and straight out the port.
Get David Vizard's Porting and Flow Testing book and his How to Build Power. Also watch the David Vizard Powertec 10 youtube videos.
You could make the flow balls by getting ball bearings in a range of sizes from say 1/8" to 1/2" and weld about 9" to 12" of gas welding filler rod on.
Wouldn’t getting more air into be compressed from increased flow balance out the lost compression from larger chambers? Tks for all the info!
My question to Andy is this: big block ford heads come in a couple of different chamber sizes. If a feller was trying to get a 10:1 compression ratio, is it better to have flat top pistons with larger chambers, or dished pistons with smaller chambers?
With your porting chamber how much will compression ratio go up too.
Compression ratio will go down due to chamber work . But may be, not yet explained by Andy and David, can this loss be compensated by skimming of the head a bit more. Of better, skimming of the Deck of the block.
Crusader rep Buzz Linny advanced Hale Wheel Warsaw VA. Linny 6 cyl. Mustang V8 valves. Buzz Chevy Business Coup.
Which 460 ford heads should you use cast iron and aluminum
Andy, do you know how well this applies to the F3 EFI heads?
Very well, this follows DV 5 golden rules of porting that can be applied to all head porting.
Thanks for watching
Andy
👍💪
Just make your own marking compound ! Far cheaper and just as good.
I need information on a cast iron head Dove C heads
Terry Grover YT channel.
These Principles apply to them as well...
Andy
Is Casper ready to go? Have you fixed the torque converter issues?
We have some big stuff coming for CASPER in the near future... I've been just putting miles on it and having fun!
Andy
So I have a problem that maybe you could do a video on, I have a stroker crank stock rods so how do I figure out what pistons
you need the deck height of your block, the stroke of the crank and the centre to centre measurement of your rods, then you can calculate the pin height of the piston required.
@seanb1443 it's a new 302 ford block , standard rods,
@@addictedtoeverything so 8.2” deck block? 6” rods and what is the cranks stroke?
Does that lower compression ratio
Slightly, but the power gains from the flow increase definitely outweighs that. You can also mill the head to get the chamber volume back to the starting point as well
Andy
So. You basically use the flowball and after you pull through. Then lock the valve in place🤷♀️????
May be he holds the valve in place by using a tight hose or tigh wrap on the valve stem. And may be only valve seals will do (?)
@@theblackhand6485 🤷♀️.
Andy, Mythbusters done a full episode on polishing a turd should you want to watch it.
Video port
That's not a factory head
It's an Edelbrock Victor Jr head which I covered in Part 1
Andy
Factory bb Ford heads are junk on the exhaust side, makes it a turd
And so are Clevo's. Them darn shock towers and the compromises made!!