What if Italy Never United?
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- Howdy folks, since you guys seemed to like my last alternate history video, I decided that I'm gonna try to do alternate history content on this channel more often. So, for this time, I'm doing a scenario that I'm actually quite surprised that not a lot of people have discussed, being, What if Italy Never United? Enjoy!
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MUSIC:
Marcha Real: • Kingdom of Italy (1861...
Bella Ciao: • Bella Ciao
Il Canto degli Italiani: • Video
Giovinezza: • Giovinezza, Instrument...
Radetzky March: • Johann Strauss Sr. - R...
Video Chapters:
0:00 Introduction
0:21 Italy Divided
1:49 Roots of Nationalism
3:50 Revolutions of 1848
5:00 First Italian War of Independence
5:48 Second Italian War of Independence
7:32 Completion of Italian Unification
9:34 Italy in Our Timeline
10:15 Scenario
14:02 Outro
What if Canada joined the American revolution, or Canada sided with the USA at the start of the war of 1812.
I wonder how that would effect Quebec. Would they become independent or join English speaking America?
This is something I’ve been thinking about.
@@scrappy9133 because I honestly don’t see the Quebecois rebelling against the British Empire only to then join the United States. Maybe young America annexes the region 🤷🏽♂️
We would never give up our beavers and maple syrup for some crumbs of american pie. No matter what happened at band camp.
You're american aren't you
No offence
*Josh when someone not aligning with monarchism exists*
👑👑👑👑👑
@@andyreginald9272 Pierre, hand me the guillotine.
Is Josh monarchist?
@@zombusshankus9589 Josh is certainly a strong conservative, and his views remind me of monarchists.
Finally an alternate History video where the austrian win for once
You could have titled it: What if Austria wasn't incompetent.
Happy to hear that there'll be more alternate history content on this channel! Looking forward to it!
The Kingdom of the Two-Sicilies was not Spanish, although they came from the Spanish branch of the House. They were pretty good.
True
I don't get how this Germany could've still united without an armed conflict with Austria. Austria had been the dominant power in Germany for centuries and in terms of spheres of influence it was Austrias main concern. No unified German State (not led by Austria) could've ever formed without forcefully kicking her out first.
Woohoo, alternate history is always the best history. How about an interesting suggestion of say, Hideyoshi conquering Korea afterall? I figure he still couldn't push onto China in that scenario but maybe it's enough to keep his son in power or at the very least lead any potential Tokugawa successor away from Isolationism? Colonization of the Pacific like with the Wako against Spain in the Philippines incoming? :D
I thought the Spanish Sicily ended at 1713. As far as I remember it was two Sicilies were not part of a declining spanish empire.
Absolutely true
Iam enjoying these hypothetical "What if's" videos, gives a whole other scenario about how history might have changed completely had some events not happened. Subbed.
Based Germanic Brothers. 😎👍
P.S. What if The Western Roman Empire never lost Italy? Aka Invasions into Italy were stopped and Italy remained United.
Also, a part 2 to this video please?
💀
You are cool. I love your poppy style and how in depth you go with the background
Great video king!
Point of contention, the "Byzantines" weren't a foreign empire, but the Romans themselves. They ruled over parts of Italy up until the 11th century.
Greek empire. Foreign power.
@@mugen7819 they controlled south italy and sicily, lands with big greek influence.
Honestly, I think you really did overestimate austria. When you mention WW1 specifically, you ignored 2 main issues regarding austria. First of all, succeeding in keeping italy disunited, while being a very beneficial arrangement for austria, does not at all mean that austria’s army would be more powerful, as they now not only had to fight who they did historically, but they would also definitely have to deal with italian insurrections, plus the fact that the multiethnic army issues would still plague the army, leading to similar underperformance in russia. Second, It is nearly impossible that austrian troop on the franco-italian border would have as much of an effect as you described, as the mountainous alpine borders would be extremely powerful defenses that austria could absolutely never break through, especially if italian resistances in the region bogged their troops down even further
I like the channel and like the senecio, keep it up 👍
Grazie! Grande video
"They said they were going to liberate italy from foreign domination, however in reality they were just throwing out foreign domination from other countries in exchange for foreign domination from theirs."
Gee, what two modern countries does that sound like today?
USA?
russia?
Actually you're wrong. Domination by the based Chinese and Russians is the best thing ever and shitty N*TO ruined it all 🤢
Canada? jk
Honestly here’s a couple ideas that I think would be really interesting, I never see many people do a lot of steppe migrations but it would be interesting to see one where the cumans replace Hungary or the avars survive
Truely the timeline of all timelines.
This timeline deserves a novel set in.
here's one i wonder what you think about: what if corsica remained in italian hands when napoleon was born? he does ho to a military academy in france but had ideas about uniting italy and eventually succeeds. since there is no connection to the anti-monarchist elements of the french revolution, european powers such as russia and the british empire may be less suspicious of the ascendant italy. in france, without an emperor as a figurehead, the directoire, or national assembly, may confer on it's leader the title of president, or create a constitutional monarchy as something of a compromise vis-a-vis the european monarchies. napoleon as the new roman caesar may wish to free greece from the otomans, and create a neo-hellenistic sphere of influence. he may certainly be interested in the possibility of establishing colonies in india, as in the days of alexander the great, but that may be achieaved more smoothly regarding the british empire. they may even be partners.
Great video
Nice video!
Bro your channel is so underrated.
No pizza.
New Pope named John creates a pizza franchise, calls it Papa John's Pizza
@@JoshSullivanHistory So Gru.
underrated alt history vid
Although this is my only criticism about your channel, I do believe this is a major thing that needs to be addressed.
Why did it take you around 10 MINS to talk about the IRL history of Italy (up until the Fascist Era), but only around 4 MINS to talk about what viewers came here for, the alternate history scenario. That’s less than a third (33.3%) of the video. You could at least give us chapters/timestamps to let people, like me, skip to the actual scenario. Please fix this in your later videos. Thank you for acknowledging this comment.
I was always interested in what would happen if Italy never United but my knowledge in Italy was always half-baked so I couldn't properly work my way around it
Nice to see a scenario where Austria wins for once
Love you chose of music....
My Man Josh calling out anti Christian elements in every video.
Based & Christ-Pilled. 😎👍
I thought that Austria may have forcefully united Italy under say the Habsburg Tuscan or Bourbon Parman houses allowing them to have a strong ally. I think if this happened the new Italian kingdom or empire could supplement Austria's naval shortcomings.
France won't allow this. Especially in Piedmont case.
@@alexzero3736 i think once the Franco Prussian war would break out the Austrians could swoop into Piedmont whilst other powers were distracted the only power likely to oppose Austria wold be the Spanish and the Ottomans as now Italy and Austria could dominate the northern Mediterranean and I doubt Britain would intervine as long as Italy or Austria don't threaten Malta, Gibraltar or Egypt. they wouldn't do so until at most the mid 1890s or so
@@Social_studies_4_u would it really? Bismarck IRL was sure that no one would interfere, since Napoleon 3 doesn't have friends and Austria is weakened by 1866 defeat. But in this timeline Battle of Solferino never happened, so Austria may interfere Franco- Prussian war against Prussia. Another problem with your scenario that Austria was deeply catholic, they would not touch Papal state and Kingdom of Two Sicilies was ruled by Bourbons who were friendly to Austria. So Austria would unite Northern Italy and Tuscany at best.
@@alexzero3736Austria could allow that Italy were unified by Papal States in a italian confederation, with their allies of Bourbon Two Sicilies or the Italian Habsburgs as part of the nobility of that hypothetical state and respected their domains by a Pope as an emperor of italian monarchs, and ally of Austria and mediator with the French empire while Napoleon III were a pro catholic that respected Italy as a neutral power (but in the case that French turns into a liberal republic, then Papal States would be fully ally of Austrian Empire)
Nice how do you make these good animations
I wonder, what is your opinion on his holiness Pope Julius the 2nd? I love him, as he was a fellow Romaboo.
Little correction , southern italy became indipendent after the last spanish-neapolitan king left southern italy and went to spain, dividing the bourbon dynasty into the sicilian bourbons so yeah southern italy was the second indipendent non pape controlled nation however the economy was still developing so piedmont took over
I do not agree with you, in 1860 Napoleon III’s France was at its peak while Bismarck’s wasn’t yet the power it was later on, so Prussia going to war to save their rival Austria was very unlikely
Thanks for having bella ciao as the background music :)
I’d love to see your thoughts on a Central Powers victory. Great video!
Agreed.
What if goerge 1 of Greece survived his Assassination
What if capodistrias survived his Assassination
What if Austria and Russia attacked the Ottoman Empire in the Greek Revolution
What if Italië attacked France in the Franco prusian war
What if Greece joined the Entente when Britain offert Cyprus tho them
What if Harald hardrada became Eastern Roman Emperor
9:34 And the Vatican. A settlement between the Vatican and Italy was only reached under Mussolini some 50 years later.
I forgot this was alt history so the intro ending at 14 mins was a jumpscare
this felt more like what if Austria won the 2nd war of Italian independence instead of what if the Italians never united.
Thats what lead to Italy not unifying.
And there was much rejoicing.
There are some problems with the presented scenario:
1) Prussia intervening in 1860. Prussia in the 1840s-1850s before Bismarck was not the juggernaut of the 18th century, while Napoleon III's France was at his peak; why would they risk a potentially losing war to save Austria's skin?
2)Piedmont was no joke - Cavour was a genius on par with Bismarck (he gets less press because he died fairly young) and he had prepared his resources well; plus, he had tacit British support in his plans and network.
3)Italian, German, Hungarian and Slavic nationalism wouldn't have gone away just because Austria had beaten Piedmont; if anything, It would have only dalayed her problems and made them bigger.
4) Bismarck was an incredible statesman, but he saw war as a major part of diplomacy. He wouldn't see a compromise with Austria with a possible Smaller and less powerful Germany as a good idea, so a war against the Austrian was inevitable. A war with Austria would have probably had the same result as in OTL - Remember that Italy was only a small distraction (a useless one, even) in that war.
5) Moving forward, our WW1 is likely butterflied away, replaced with something different. Austria's chances at keeping her empire remain fairly low.
Thank you thank you thank you, finally a smart comment, this videos is full of errors
I absolutely agree with your points, whatever the outcome, the Austro-Prussian would have still happened, the Prussian would have won, and Italian unification wouldn’t simply have melted away, the sentiment of a united italian country was still there, they would have united no matter what. Also Austria defeating the French by attacking through the Alps during this alternate WWI is bullshit, the Austrians weren’t able to invade Italy during WW1 and he thinks they would have invaded France through the Alps, c’mon
What if Charles Martel qonquerd Spain from the umuyyads
Even using the B-word slur is horribly offensive. Claiming that the Romans in Constantinople were a foreign power ruling over Italy takes that attitude to a whole new level
Reminder that the Republic of Venice was the only self-governed state in Europe, and it makes no sense why Venetia wasn't allowed to govern itself after 1815.
Also, Venetians never bought the whole "liberation" thing from the italians. We were free before, and since the unification we have been occupied by a foreign state.
I'm from Rome and i unironically miss the Papal States. I'd rather be under the Pope's rule rather than being "united" with the akward Neapolitans and Milanese.
da trentino ti dico che preferirei essere rimasto nella contea del tirolo
What if the Hundred Years War never happened?
how tf 3/4 of the alr history video about history 😭
Do a video about the 7 years War won by France and Austria
Perfect timline dosnt ex...
*meanwhile this timeline*
Italians think that when seeing a map of a new Roman Empire around Italia with RETIA in its place: a province
I'm from Rome and I miss the Papal States; i agree with you.
@@user-ef8ol7nx9u Poor you
a big austria is a good austria
What if China stayed divided (Like Rome)?, or inversely, what if Rome managed to hold on (Like China)? or some combination.
Southern forces would unite Korea.
this is an another excellent what if alternative history timeline just like what if germany never existed. if italy never united, it is possible that fascism is never invented.
What if the United kingdom of Portugal Brasil and Algarves worked?
What if the German monarchie was restored
Wilhelm 2 or Wilhelm 3 as Emperor
It would be great if Austria gets Silisia back too.
What if the Habsburgs never gained the Kingdom of Hungary or Spain?
What if Venice (somehow) United Italy?
2:27 Thank you for saying something almost no one talks about!
0:39 no the Byzantine didn’t “conquer Italy“ they were taking back their homeland as the Roman Empire
What if Canada was colonized by Portugal instead Britain ?
Why would Austria allow Prussia to get a hold of southern German states like Bavaria, Wurttemberg, and Baden?
What if western rome servived instead of the bizantins
i dont think austria would let prussia unificate germany without a war, war between austria and prussia for domination in germany is inevitable and can maybe even escalate into ww1
No Mussolini.
What if Ernest Bevin fell down thr stairs and broke his neck the day before the 1935 Labour Party Conference?
What if Germany never united?
What if Japan joined the central power's
You literally referred to the Roman Empire as a foreign empire in Italy.
The Eastern Roman Empire was centered in Anatolia
The Romans, althought centering its Empire on a city in the Italian penisula, they regarded the rest of the penisula as a simple province.
@@Juan-qu4oj factually incorrect the capital was Constantinople. In the region of Thrace… Europe. Anatolia is Asia Minor, opposite side of the Bosporus and Helispont.
Before watching the entire video, my prediction is Italy just remains a puppet of the Austrians
One of the best endinh for our peninsula, despite if Lombardy stayed under Austria we would have been Germanized soo, maybe the federation / confederation is better.
One of the worst
You spend a little too much time providing background. You should try weaving that into the description of the divergence instead
Might want to cut down on background and focus more on the scenario chief.
bro had to tell us about freemason conspiracy before starting the vid
I’m fine with the background.
What if the papal State United Italië
What if the Kingdom of the two Sicily United Italië
What if ceasere Borgia United Italië wicht Alexander 6
W
Disunited nations? What about an unconquered Ireland left disunited with its petty kingdoms
So no one would stop us from annexing east africa. Greater Ethiopia will be achieved.
Yeah. Unless another power take Eritrea
Djibouti was still colonized by other nations I forgot which one but it was either the UK or France I’m to lazy to look it up
@@stargazer-elite France
@@ThePanEthiopian thx
If Italy never existed the world would eat definitly much worse
What if vietnam was stalemate😊
Byzantines were literally Roman, not foreign
Praise the wave of alt-history!
That's not properly true that Italians hated French domain. Infact Napoleone Bonaparte felt himself Italian other than French, was king of Italy and recognised Italians a "free" people and aimed to unify all the peninsula. And free italians fron the austrian dominance that was hated by italians more than any other
10:15 Video starts here
Austro-Hungarian empire 🔛🔝
2/3 of Italy's wettest dream lmfao
Wait, so I'm Austrian?
There would have been a Bourbon Rome 😎
Ima disagree with you on your opinions on freemasonry. It may be conflicting with the Catholic Church but to say it conflicts with Christianity as a whole seems like a pretty big leap. Overall though the video was still pretty enjoyable.
Freemasonry is still cringe, especially the higher you go.
DEUS VULT!!!
@@crusader2112 As someone opposed to both sides of this disagreement...
*DEVS VVLT*
@@Deridus What side do you take?
Even Protestant Americans formed the Anti Masonic Party, every form of conservative orthodoxy is at enmity with stone cutters
@@patrickrooney971 That’s true. Most Based Party in American history. 👍
Hi
You're supposed to say "Nice", lol!😆
Hi
What if they united earlier
I noticed that you havent spoke about the glorius kingdom of Two sicilies that was the richest and developed state in italy but unfurtuanaly it was destroyed by the kingdom of savoy and garibaldi who stole all the money and taked millions of innocent civilians and put them in concentration camp destroying a entire country of love respect and unity and freedom , turning it in the land of criminality and poorness (the freedom part started after 1836 like most states in the world) , and the rebellion in sicily was supported by the british because they wanted to conquer it . basicaly North = weak and poor SOUTH = strong and rich (not very organized in the military)
Because that's propaganda and pseudo-History
@@NoName-hg6cc Yeah how i said it that way sounds propaganda but its actualy true that two sicilies were much stronger they just had a big actualy very big problem with corruption in the army that led to their fall
@@Gingvonglus1968 It actually wasn't. It had some interesting industry but nothing the North didn't have, and it had too many problems: no middle class, widespread illiteracy, few investments
@@NoName-hg6cc thats what the italian goverment says, but i have to agree that the kingdom had many probles like all states in Europe in that time, like, savoy had a super high dept of money that led them to invade the south, that the south was the richest in the region , turning it into a colony
@@Gingvonglus1968 This is what Historic data said. Piedmont Sardinia invested money at debt, the South had a surplus because didn't invest in infrastructure or schooling
Just to make a point please properly learn to say certain names before you insult most people in Latin Europe
If that happened, we won’t have pizza. 😢
It would, Napolitans are the ones who invented pizza though.
Pizza has technically been around since the Roman era
man is litterally talking about freemason conspiracy in a video about italian unification tf is this bizzare video
you can literally find everything i've said about the freemasons on wikipedia, it ain't some wild conspiracy theory, it's just true public information lmao
@@JoshSullivanHistory ok? but why talk about freemason shit on italian unification especially since the video is 14 min long for 10 minute explanation
@@cameroonemperor755 It's relevant to why Sicily and The Pope were oppositional to Italian Nationalism, this is even said in the video bro our you paying attention.
@@patrickrooney971 but it's not, this is same level as blaming illuminati to 9 11 or something
@@cameroonemperor755 It is relevant. Like Patrick Rooney said it explains why the Vatican was opposed to this brand of Italian Nationalism. It’s not the same as what you mentioned.