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Wiring the inverter and fridge on the trawler
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- čas přidán 19. 10. 2019
- In this video Leon and I wire up the inverter to get 240V power on the boat, but more importantly we finally get the fridge up and running!
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Well you seem to have your priorities figured out. Get the fridge full of cold beer. Two thumbs up. I like seeing you getting the wire run for one thing and tested before tackling the next item. A lot less confusion that way.
I have been an electrician for a long long time. I am retired now. I see a lot of good judgment calls in what you guys are doing. I had a speech I gave to all the apprentices. If the plumber screws up we wade thru shit, if we mess up everyone dies. It looks like you guys are doing good work.
Thanks Derick. We’re not experts by any means but trying our best.
It drives me nuts seeing someone disliking videos like these, if you don’t like boat work find a crochet video and get lost. Good video as always Stu!
Agreed!
Its a tiny percentage of people and you can't please everyone... its not worth the effort to get annoyed for you or the content creator
Dan C, I haven't clicked the "dislike" but I can see the point of those who have. Everything sounded like it was in an Echo Chamber, the two lads were constantly talking over each other while one was making an observation, and you would have to be an Electrician to understand most of it. If you read the comments, most of the "likes" are from people who do this sort of thing for a living, or at least are well-versed in the technology. Case in point, from a comment up above- "CLIPSAL RCD MCB Double Pole 10kA Safety Switch 20A" what on earth is that? Easy when you know, but most CZcamsrs don't!
P.S. The person who did the Subtitles didn't have a clue what the lads were talking about either!
BigAlonBass OK, granted, sometimes any video has something some of us may not understand. So you simply ask that question in the comment’s section.
These videos are real life action, done while working, so yes, sometimes things get lost, sound doesn’t always is great, etc. You can voice that in the comments. That’s my opinion anyway.
Dan C Totally Agree. Personally not only do I learn so much from these vids I sooo totally enjoy listening to Dangar Stu in his Aussie style. 😁 Always tipping a Cold ONE. 🍺We DIY’ers can relate. 👍 Thanks again Stu. 👍👏🏻
Very cool that you got the fridge wired. That boat should be a beast once you get the Detroit back in her.
Thanks mate, can't wait to get the engine back now, going to see it today.
@@DangarMarine Sweet. Engines like it when you go visit them at the hospital after reconstructive surgery.
Looking good stu, good to get all the electrics done while the motor isnt there. Means you can focus on each thing properly without getting distracted. Your lucky to have leon helping out! What a legend!
Yes, it is nice to get this stuff squared away before the engine arrives as once that is here it will dominate every minute.
We were pulling for ya mate ..trawler is taking shape nicely , great to have some power ..
Thanks Greg!
Nice seeing you genuinely happy and smiling again Stu :-)!
BTW,
You can make some adapters for an extension cord to make a temporary set of test leads to be able to make bow to stern measurements. (plug adapter to clips, just measure/calculate line loss because of lead length as it applies)
I had to measure ground reference (mVscale) in an industrial plant power bus (utility) to equipment point of use, it was over 500 feet down corridors and hallways, showed to me by a schneider electrical troubleshooter contractor for some sensitive analytical instruments.
Yes, it would be nice to measure the voltage drop directly bow to stern.
I was watching you at the end of the video in the wheelhouse explaining what is next. I couldn't help but be distracted by the beautiful scenery you have to look at out those windows.
It is a nice view. :)
I never had any idea how complicated the electrics were on a boat that size! Well done!
It is amazing how many things there are to wire up to keep a boat running.
Isn't it nice to have friends that are qualified in certain trades or knowledgeable and come and lend a hand just because. I know it makes me feel reassured when doing up vintage motorbikes.
It is great to have a second opinion when working on these things for sure.
Good Job Stu and Leon,
Keep checking your ground paths to hull sections as you add more electrics to make sure an incorrect path has not been created. Otherwise you might install a bonding cable between sections (tapped screw threads).
Not sure how to address the inverter neutral, but the Mfg. should have some recommendations for a marine install.
Yes, totally agree. Will look more into the earth leakage.
Watched tons of these videos so relaxing and informative .
Thanks Johnny!
That looks like a great time to spend with a friend and still get things done . Good times man ! Thanks for the hard work and videos .
It was a fun day and nice to get a couple of jobs ticked off the list.
Electronics... yay my favourite subject. Loving the installed subwoofer Stu. With the bus bar use a tough piece of plastic from a food container as a separator insulator
Another job off the list..Two questions on electrical safety
1) others have already commented , but what are you going to do about 240v safety in a potentially wet environment?
2) Have you any plans to waterproof / protect that electrical board from water when the hatch is open?
Keep the vids coming I will probably never take on a large project like yours but I am learning all the way.
Both will be covered in videos coming up soon!
Great work mate cant wait to see it all done
Getting closer all the time now. Really want to have it ready for the Christmas break.
It's really coming together. A fridge is a must for bait and beer👍
Thanks for taking us along Thats a huge inverter nice work
You’re welcome mate. It is a huge inverter, glad it came with the boat.
14:53 "A bit early to be drinking water...Yeah I know. Don't tell anyone." LOL
Nice to see a sparky who gets it done
Well this is neat! We just did a major fridge rebuild/reinsulation on our boat a few months back... and just got the video on CZcams. We would love to hear your thoughts!
I so miss just sitting on a boat listening to the waves slapping against the hull!
I'm really enjoying working on the boat while it is in the mooring. Much nicer than being on the hardstand.
The beauty of watching your videos Stu is that by the end of it you could totally build your own boat. Brilliant work guys, and cold beer to boot. Have a great week... ;-}
Thanks Shane!
The good news: It’s a 24 volt inverter. More efficient and the wire size can be smaller than a 12 volt type. That being said, the wires to that inverter should be at least 2/0 for short runs ( a few feet) 4/0 is not too big, and that’s what I run for minimal voltage drop. Don’t forget to size the jumpers between the batteries too. Bigger is better. The inverter’s circuit should be dedicated only to the inverter and fused appropriately at the battery (250 amps?) I don’t use disconnects on inverter circuits, but I do keep a pair of cable cutters on a hook near the cable. I have not found any disconnect switches that in time didn’t lose voltage across them or get hot and fail under high load. Mounting the inverter as close to the batteries is important but sometimes it’s better to mount it in an adjacent compartment. No large inverter I know of is ignition protected so they should never be installed in a gasoline powered engine room. They should also be protected from rain and the humidity that an engine room creates. Inverters that are not “ True sine wave” type can damage sensitive electronics like TVs and computers. Remember when your batteries reach 24 V (under no load,”rest”)they’re considered depleted. If the voltage is at say 21 volts (at the batteries) under heavy load, this is not how they are measured, this may be acceptable. It’s at rest at the batteries what counts. By the way, I think you’re heat gun is toast buddy. Cheers! I’m grabbing a cold one.
Karl Jensen Your advice is much appreciated.
Yes, I was glad the inverter was 24V. I don't think it will get a lot of use, I'm likely to use the generator mostly when working but it came with the boat so I figure I may as well wire it up. :)
Definitely agree bigger is better on cable size but there are diminishing returns after you get to a healthy size wire for the application.
There is around 1m/3ft of 35mm (apprx 2 AWG) between the battery and the isolator, then 0.6m/2ft of whatever wire came with the inverter (looks similar size)
Most loads will be around 1kW between the vacuum, grinders, drills etc. but even if you compared at the full 4kW capacity (approx 200a @ 24v) the theoretical drop at 2 vs 2/0 guage is 0.32v vs 0.16v (so 1/4 of that drop at typical loads). The isolator will add to that It all adds up so yes largest wire / minimum voltage drop is preferable but I think we're in a good spot with the current setup.
I'm curious to see how the isolator holds up now you have mentioned multiple brands failing over time.
These aren't expensive ones and I run the same switches in my tinny for starting the outboard, running the trolling motor and occasionally an inverter for power tools.
I haven't had a problem so far but I don't see sustained high current beyond about the 40a or so for the trolling motor (I'll get the meter out next time to know the actual current draw for that)
If there is any load when switching on or off it will arc inside the switch and degrade the contacts over time, once they have some resistance that drop in voltage will transfer to heat and mess things up more so I can see how it would easily end up pear shaped.
The inverter has a lot of capacitance so will generate a good arc each time it's connected to power, another good reason for a dedicated circuit.
It's currently sharing the 250a battery post fuse and isolator for the 24v house circuit that will stay on most the time so not too urgent to change.
The jumpers between batteries are sized similar to the cables to the starter on the engine for both banks (in case there is a need to start from the house batteries) so they should be ok.
I was a bit surprised about the heat gun, there isn't much beyond a coil, thermostat and a fan in there so didn't expect much difference between in performance with a sine wave vs modified sine (stepped wave). Further testing to be done for sure :)
Oh and the Inverter is in the Lazarette not the engine bay, and the engine is diesel so no issue on this boat, good advice though for others installing inverters though
Cheers for the feedback :)
Leon Bloor
Just to give you an idea what a 3000 (4000 peek)watt inverter can do on two 8Ds. It’ll run a 20” LED tv for 8+hours then microwave dinner then power an electric blanket all night & CPAP machine & run a full size fridge night and day then power a coffee maker at the same time as the toaster in the morning , later the microwave oven for lunch. After those 24hs of abuse it’s down to 12.4 volts (no load). Now I start the Honda 2000 and charge it with a 90 amp charger for 4 to 6 hrs. Repeat the next day if still away from port. And keep in mind that a 24 volts, 36 or 48 volt system is more efficient. Big wires just in case you want to.
Pretty much spot on!! I work on that with 12v batteries each 0.1v over 12v is (roughly) 10% charge (Never been lucky enough to have a 24v system on a boat!) and double the voltage, half the current... the lower the current the better for transmission around the place.
With the weight of that inverter a couple of bolts through the board would support more weight than the screws if getting pounded by seas. Great video. Sorry I wasn't able to make it to any of the meet and greets in the States.
Yes, it could probably do with a bit of extra support, although we did use long and heavy gauge screws.
Cold beer available!!! FINALLY the boat is civilized
It is a milestone indeed!
G’da Stu the boat is going to be a very fine vessel, the wiring is really neat and well thought out. I really enjoyed watching this one as I remember when my boat was rewired thanks mate regards John
Thanks John, glad you enjoyed it. :)
has stu got a new camera ,awesome quality,,
Thanks Jason.
So now you have a floating neutral I suggest, if not already installed: CLIPSAL RCD MCB Double Pole 10kA Safety Switch 20A. An inverter can kill ya. Not to much earth reference on the seas aye!
alectraproject
Great idea
Absablinkinglutely install one you'll risk more than perm if you don't 😞
GFCI
Steel hull with anodes in saltwater sea.
Will do for sure.
It appears that the coils of the fridge are back there in an unventilated space. If so, finding a way to blow some air through there and across the coils will do a lot to improve the efficiency of the thing.
If the inverter doesn't produce a clean sine wave and your heat gun needs that, try running any motor that runs synchronous with the mains frequency (like your vacuum) in parallel, the motor should act like a low-pass filter for the waveform and smooth it for other tools that need a clean 50 Hz sine wave to trigger off. Turn the motor on first, then turn on the problem device. Just make sure you don't exceed your inverter power rating.
Now that’s a real working video and great results a man has to have power and beer fridge!!!!!!
Wow. That water looks nice!
Nice video Stu! It's good to have 220V option on the boat. You can waterprof Redarc inverter with CorrosionX Heavy Duty, but you need to remove case from it.
This is what I like best Stu ...you working on your own boat . Can't wait to see the engine back.
Regards from old Blighty .
I'm looking forward to getting the engine back too!
I kept going back to the opening scene - in your Vespa 55 T-shirt, hair uncombed, unshaven, looking very tired. Did you schedule the electrician on a day after a party?
Of course, once you got to work, your energy level went up and the two of you did a good job! 😁🏆👍
I'm not a morning guy.
Leon's a good mate to have.
He is. :)
Fridge is VERY important! It's what keeps the Beer cold!
ive got a victron bmv712 which has bluetooth for remote monitoring which is handy....ipad can monitor it from anywhere
Stu, good, entertaining, informative video. Getting excited for you again.
Brilliant!
Thankyou for sharing.
Thanks Tony, it's starting to come along now.
You should run a thermal imaging scan on the equipment to really test the temperatures of the conductors and connections.
Please send a camera! :)
The thermal cameras are a must for high voltage stuff, unless you have wet hands it’s pretty safe to touch the 12/24v stuff to check for heating.
The camera does let you cover a lot of ground quickly though
NICE JOB ON THE FRIDGE, I SEEN THOSE COPPER TUBES FOR YOUR STEERING, KEEP A CLOSE WATCH ON THEM FOR COROSION, ESPECIALLY IN THE STERN AREA!
Thanks for the video.
Viewers not understanding the relationship between volts, amps and wattage should learn about Ohms law. It is helpful to know about if your are going to take on projects like a boat re wire or a solar array, RAPS etc. I'm so thankful to my late father who taught me those things when I was young.
Yes, very important to understand when going your own wiring.
A friend brings you a hat, a real mate watches out for your beer, Leon is a treasure
A tissue for a good nose blow would be more appropriate here.
Loving the regular uploads !!!
Thanks Cameron! :)
Nice job 👍🏾
Thanks mate.
Good on ya. Cold beer is as important as buoyancy
Bilge pump, electrics, fridge, cold beer then raymarine important to be practical with time available 😉
Great stuff... learned a lil about inverters. Never even thought about draw while sitting till now. Going to load test mine as well, so far it has held up to minor loads but I've never tried it with my tools.
Edit: I just installed a cheap dual battery voltage tester too bad I didn't see the nicer one you have before I installed my basic one. Oh well live and learn.
Must be using a gimble on those shots of the power panel. You can see everything moving with the rocking of the boat. I was beginning to get a little sea sick. LOL Guess this would be a good use of a fixed tripod eh?
It's actually the motion correction inside the camera.
Hey Stu great video. Just wanted to to say thanks for great info you gave me on piston rings for my old outboard restoration and point out one of the checks we use on inverter installation. Load inverter to close to capacity and check the output frequency + the wave shape of output , if off it can hasten the death of any electronics plugged into it.
Great video sir. Keep up the good work.
✌️😎
Ton of work you're putting into this thing. I've been watching since the beginning and always enjoy the videos. Boat will be built like a brick shit house by the time you're done with it!
Thanks Errol, it's starting to come together now.
Good episode "B.O.B-BEER ON A BOAT" lol next one looks good, the battery monitoring system. I still can't wait for that Detroit diesel episode!!! Cheers! Stay well!
check the diodes on the heat gun. Ive found that the diodes on the elements like to go after awhile.
First time i have ever seen a 240 inverter neat.
Might want to put some waterproof foam insulation against the hull before it drives people nuts.
You had me and Beer and Pie mate! Cheers
Nothin like an Aussie sparky with a 🍺 in his hand
David Connelly Indeed! 🍻😁
I have the same fridge! Had it on my sailboat. It’s now in my camper. Great beer fridge. Don’t know if you’ve got an ice chest on the trawler or not. My sailboat had a huge one built in. I use to use the bladders that held the wine in the wine in a box. 1. Buy wine in a box. 2. Drink wine. 3. Pop off the black wine spigot. Rinse bladder. 4. Fill with water. 5. Lay flat in freezer and freeze. 6. Use innice chest as the can lay flat or vertical in between food and beverages. No water from ice melt. Just refreeze and reuse EZ PZ.
Good tip!
hi boat is looking very good
Thanks Greg!
In next video could you make a little tour of everything that has been done, esepcially from the outside? Great channel, thanks :)
Sure, that's a good idea.
Great progress Stu but very messy all around the boat , hope you don't trip on something after a few beers , ha! ha!
Yes, hard to keep such a small boat clear in the middle of working on it.
Great way to start the day.👍👍👍👍👍😘
That's a cool Vespa T-shirt.
Nice job, but I think that I would have put the inverter on its side. Sockets pointing up can fill up with crap which could lead to a bad connection.
Yes, I thought the same thing, I might have to mount another board to give myself more room.
Just a heads up Stu, it doesn't look like this video is in the CZcams playlist - Watched all the way through over these last 2 days.. then found this extra nugget :)
Thanks mate, I'll add it now!
Nice! 1/0 + or 50mm2+ wire would be ideal. Fine strand for flexibility
Another great vid!! and i like that line, no kill like overkill! Dont think you're gonna be able to say that about the refrigerator though...room for a poverty pack in it? Maybe the next install is an icemaker....think about it youre gonna be at sea for a few days at a time....will that little fridge lead to mutiny??? LOL
Thanks for sharing!!
I did actually look at ice makers while I was at the boat show, I do like the idea of installing one.
@@DangarMarine i wonder how much power one of those draws? i'm thinking i'd like one as well....my fridge is kinda small as well and ice keeps for 4 days in my pelican (esky?)
I went with a cheap ice maker off eBay and my 600w (1200 peak) inverter couldn’t start it. Once running they are about 60w from memory so keeping one ticking along while the sun is on the panels wouldn’t even use battery power. I’ve got a 2000w inverter for the next trip away so will give it a try
ill be willing to bet that the inverter only puts out 210~ish volts with a modified sine as opposed to the fully 240, that would definitely account for the dramatic drop in heat output. Most modified sine inverters are like this and with a full load the voltage might be dropping even further !.
It would interesting to see what it puts out.
But we saw 5-10a draw and expected 50-100 so there’s more to it than 30v, I suspect pulse width if a factor but we will need to crack out the osmelliiscope to confirm
Great work once again, really enjoy these videos.
Thanks Rod!
Ok. Fridge is running. Now for the pie oven and we're ready to put to sea!
Of course we'll need to be towed to sea, but we're ready for sea.
BBQ is definitely high on the priority list. Going to see the engine today!
@@DangarMarine very cool!
She'll soon be a runner.
I've got a 4x4 project to be wired up, quit stealing my sparkie! 😆
Come on Dylan, we can share. ;)
@@DangarMarine don't remember him bringing me a pie... 🤔
If you ever need to replace the refrigerator they make solid state mini refrigerators now that are a lot more reliable because of no moving parts and probably better for a salt environment.
Yes, I imagine this one is getting a bit long in the tooth now. It will be interesting to see what is available when it goes give up the ghost.
Love the fact you are post more videos.
A few stubbies of liquid knowledge as you do complicated electronics, livin the motto "fun first" , it's all good by me. PS:- 24 volt travel buddy oven (made in Bendigo Victoria) could be a good investment for the boat.
Interesting, I'll check them out, they look well made. :)
czcams.com/video/KwrT_4JKufo/video.html
Great vid..love the tee shirt my scoot friend.. :)
You need to secure the hatch cover when open if you want to keep your fingers mate :)
Anyone that has done any amount of wire pulling has found they have looped the wire around something and had to pull it out and try again. Just got to laugh about it.
What else can you do? :)
Network engineer, I've probably pulled hundreds of miles of cable. I have lost track of the number of times I've done that.
So true. Been there done that
@@DangarMarine What are you up to between 530-600 tomorrow night?
Probably be on the boat still.
Love this channel
Thanks Scott!
Looking good!!! Might be worth finding out of the inverter is a pure sine wave one or not - certain devices dont like anything except pure sine wave. I would have expected the heat gun to have worked perfectly though :/ Great place to mount it, then hook it up to the boats mains ring, can use inverter, generator or shore power then.
Also on the fridge make sure there is plenty of ventilation around it, and preferably get it to draw cooler air from the bilges, if the heat exchanger cannot get a good flow of cool air it will eat power trying to cool and worse give warm beer!!
Also, can i ask a daft question - why is there a massive subwoofer mounted in the wheelhouse? Who owned it before you? That just seems mad... but obviously enjoyed some banging tunes :D
I don't think the inverter is pure sine wave, it was just one that was in the boat when I bought it. My laptop, for example, I'm planning to charge from a 12V USB C socket I will be installing.
Also may be best to have a drip shield over top can use some alum flashing shaped up as a hood on an angle. I presume fan pulls air? Forced air flow has to go up, unless mounted horizontally. If there is any condensation down there, not good for locating. If you are ok where it is fine, but bridge ceiling at a side wall or on side wall, perhaps starboard, makes a dry place as long as your head misses it. Or under the bridge table. Make sure ac loads work properly, it doesn’t appear to be a true sine wave inverter. So say a microwave oven if you add a small one to heat up food or make instant coffee/tea, etc. I’m partial towards hot chocolate 😁. I guess the fridge is straight 24vdc, not thru a rectifier? And forget about using electric heat, will wipe out batteries no time at all.
I'll get some footage of it next time I'm on the boat, but all the electrics are already under and overhang. Yes, fridge is straight 24V from the house batteries.
You guys are my kind of people cheers. :o)
Now you have a running fridge and cold Beer does this mean the project is finished ?
Bob Builder might encourage getting on the boat... possibly discourage further work haha.
Nah I think there was cold beer during 99% of the work so far just don’t need to buy ice now
Real world mistakes. Lol. At least it wasn't a 100 foot run of wire. I love your vids.
Yeah, it could have been much worse!
You never told me that the trawler had a fridge, bonus now that it’s working and it’s full of cold coopers😊👍🏴
It's good that something that came with the boat actually works!
I love your boat. Wish we were mates and I were a partner in your little venture here. Next life eh?
Next time! :)
My that takes me back,being an old retired sparky,well done digger jack of all trades eh
Love seeing someone who works like me.Beer in one had screwdriver in the other. lol Cheers Friend.
The only way to go!
It just occurred to me that all of my angle grinders will operate on AC or DC. I've never tried any of them on DC power. Might be something to look into as the more devices you can run on DC the more efficient you will utilize your power without the inverter losses.
Edit: Doing some math in my head I don't see how it would have enough watts on 12v... so a guy would have to wire up a bunch of batteries in series. That would be a deal breaker.
Shain Andrews with the price of battery tools now it’s easier to grab a lithium unit for small jobs. Even the Aldi cheap stuff works well.
If you have a whole cabin to grind 240v stuff is still the go to and the boat batteries will handle it easily. Solar will top it back up in no time too
The most important thing on a boat, cold beer! couldn't agree more with that being a priority!
With summer coming it will also be nice to have cold water. ;)
like the gran tourismo 3 shirt..
"The Boat" this, and "The Boat" that. I always think of it as Renko.
Good man!
Hello Stu!
This is a terrible thing to bring up now. But my only worry is the electrical panel being directly under the hatch... Rain, or water dripping when removing the wet hatch in a storm!
Fear not! I’ll show more about that next week. :)
Cold beer makes everything better. The only thing better than that is free beer.
(Especially if it's also cold!)
Hi Stu, everything seems to be coming along! Please tell me you fixed up the lugs that were drilled out in those master switches, they will be exactly the "hot spots" that you were checking for that aren't easily visible or detected until something has overheated.
Not yet, but I do have the right ones onboard now so one step closer!
Any chance water will come through that hatch & hit your panel? I mean if you open the hatch to check something in the engine bay in rough seas or rain you could get water all over that electrical panel
Did you do anymore deck sealing ? As in the holes in it before all this electrical work?
Lazarette is bone dry now and we've had some very heavy rain.
Hi good video
priorities mate cold beer #1