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Stories of Sodor: Season 5 is frustrating... [Part 1]
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- čas přidán 19. 08. 2024
- I wanted to like this. I really did.
My unscripted, raw thoughts spewed out in one stupid video from the perspective of a (former) fan.
Don't harass anyone. I don't stand for that. also, FUCK word to keep my comments section.
![A lengthy critique of Stories of Sodor: Season 5 [Part 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KG32gzQ6xNY/mqdefault.jpg)
![A lengthy critique of Stories of Sodor: Season 5 [Part 2]](/img/tr.png)
If you're looking for a more in-depth critique and more detail with what went wrong with Season 5, this is the video for you: czcams.com/video/KG32gzQ6xNY/video.html
And before anyone asks, no. I am not subscribed to the Patreon anymore. I don't have a reason to now.
*EDIT: I HAVE SEEN THE FINAL EPISODE 'FALLOUT.' THIS IS WHY I MADE THIS VIDEO. AND YES, THOMAS DIES. SO DOES MICKEY.*
Well no shit considering you just went and spoilt the end of the season for those who aren't subscribed like a petulent child
I put a spoiler warning in the video so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
CALLLED IT!
Sorry it was such a let down. Thank you for your criticism and feedback. It's all appreciated and it's all valid.
Idk, honestly it was pretty okay, just the runtime was odd, but other than that, I found it to be enjoyable. Just take your time developing the next season.
Well considering that this was a complete redraft from the original as I do remember the announcement related to the original being scrapped and redone I'd say it wasn't bad, just a bit off in presentation.
The biggest thing I see is that, at least when looking at other seasons and mini series is that season 5 has the shortest average runtime per episode. I think if each episode had another 2-4mins added for either transitions, context or to just send home the "in the moment impact" of certain events then the season would have done a lot better.
I will say though, that in my opinion at least the impression and feeling of the stories overall still is greatly in line with how the rest of the series has been done, I think the only issue really was just the pacing, the stories and topics themselves were pretty good.
However, I saw the announcement about the Stories of Xmas, is this a "cannon" in world series kinda like how SCPs of Sodor was or is this more of a separate thing using the series as more of a backdrop for story setups like the sodor shorts you do.
I do hope you know I only want what's best for the series, and I do care. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so upset.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 I get that but emotions are the strongest driving force in our decision making.
That's why I'm glad to somewhat debate on this cause it kind gives a more paced and fluid look at the situation, which we both agree is not the best, but also certainly not the worst.
In the end it was just a bit rushed and off in presentation. Considering the fact this season got a complete redraft I'm not surprised actually that it was kinda rushed, I mean idk know exactly if this was the longest gap between seasons, but it was certainly one of the longer gaps.
Thank you victor for the wonderful memories you have created. I can't wait to see what you come up next going forward. Just know that you don't have to rush yourself to put out episodes to please your fans. We fell in love with your quality of storytelling.
I have three problems with season five:
1. The underwhelming ending that basically said “yeah Thomas died but we don’t care anymore, the killer’s dead so we’re happy.”
2. The lack of an overarching plot. Almost none of these episodes are connected in any sort of way.
3. The needless amount of death. There were so many deaths this season and a good chunk of them weren’t even relevant to the plot. Mr. Halifax’s and Peter’s deaths literally have nothing to do with the story at all. Don’t even get me started on Geoffrey’s death.
Yea, I'm already thinking about saying that this season wasn't canon because killing Thomas wasn't pretty at all, so let's ignore season 5 and it never existed in season six.
@@alejandrothee2tankengine907 i mean he's probably not dead, they set it up with the epsiode rescue that a non faceless could be drugged into a deep slumber, i think he will return in like a season 7 do.
I mean it's kind of ment to be underwhelming. Victor even said that I felt the plot was very good and kept me asking more while Peter's death is relevant because it allowed Mr zorro and Mr Hall to meet and kept us in suspense you can also see the same thing with Geoffeys death
All of these points are evidently wrong except for mayb the last
My bigger gripe is Peter’s death. Now I’m not saying him dying couldn’t work, but the way it was handled was very poor. Peter barely got any screen time after he returned from Railgate, he didn’t undergo a character arc, all he did was move around and whine in self pity, then all of a sudden this guy we’ve never seen before and was barely mentioned in passing shows up out of nowhere and kills him, and he doesn’t even speak a word of dialogue. It just felt like such a waste to bring Peter back, have him do absolutely nothing, and then just kill him out of nowhere.
the dialogue as a whole this season was a big let down to me, the amount of time were just shown scenes and its left for us to interpret was something i really did not like about this season
killing someone while they're at their lowest is the absolute worst possible thing you could do as both a writer and a human being. Absolutely unforgivable!!
The best way to describe this seaon is that its like a Christopher awdry book. It constantly bounces around, coming up with interesting ideas, characters, and stories only for them to see little use, get over shadowed, or misplaced. I wouldn't say that this season needs an overhaul, but a few plot points need to be focused on more/ and improved. Examples:
-Instead of the road and rail vehicles seeing sense in the same video have the argument span over 2 or 3 episode where they eventually settle their disagreements.
-Have the whole conversion idea expanded on and explain why say only non-faceless vehicles can have it.
-Have smoke box syndrome mentioned earlier on in another episode, give a basic idea. Then later when the episode rolls around expand upon it and show it off to be more impactful.
-Make the deaths of each character have some sort of impact. Especially a character like Mickey. Where he only gets a few mentions, and where benson gets 2 minutes.
Those are a few things I would personally do if I made the episodes.
But hey it is his series, and if he wants to make them like that he can. I just personally wish they get slightly better.
Yeah, season 5 was a total mess! Best way I'd describe it in a word is: montage. Becuase that's what a BULK of it is!
And for the steam to diesel conversion.... yeahI really don't like that either! It makes no sense! And I once wrote an OC who was a hybrid steam engine character. She had an electric motor and batteries fitted under her frames to drive her wheels that charged using fuel cells cause my stupid brain throught a fuel cell made electricity out of the air without needing compressed gasses. That character is now a PURE steam engine. But Victor trying to make us buy that "Oh, these steam engines are not diesels... somehow, just buy it." is just plain stupid! Yeah, sorry, but for all your lore and world building, this is too much to be asked to beleive.
As for the ending, this could have been a spring board for Thomas to be excused from the show: like Hall takes Thomas off Sodor to Barry Island, or the US or wherever to work on him because the steam works just can't undo this level of serious damage. It'd set up that Thomas is absent for a long time and won't return till like the end of season 6 or something. Instead we got "oops, he's dead... we will miss him. And that was 1965, see you next time!"
I really like season 5
Don’t kill me please
Perfectly okay. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I like Season 5 too
I think killing Thomas is going to create a lot of headaches for victor in the long run it’s made far too many problems both in story and out, I could see victor potential retconning it but I’m not holding my breath
Victor went on a murdering rampage this season, every episode I just caught myself wondering "alright, who and how many characters are gonna die this time".
This is the comment I left on the latest episode of S.O.S that pretty much sums up my issues.
Idk what to say Victor, other than I'm truly disappointed. After coming off so many great seasons, just to be handed this wacky, random, and incredibly disjointed season is incredibly jarring. Killing off characters is natural in a show, but you went and killed off so many that had completed story arcs. Hell we just got Peter back and you killed him in the most anticlimactic way. What about "Trial" where we watched Peter's sentencing and his 15 years in prison. Not to mention everything that happened to him in the war. It all seems so pointless now that you killed him off. No build up, no backstory on the killer, just a name drop and then Peter's dead 5 minutes later. Also the video length. Every episode is so much sorter than usual. You'd think the episode where you kill off THOMAS THE TANK ENGINE would be at least half an hour long. That's another thing. I'm not upset you killed Thomas, plenty of fan made videos have killed off Thomas. But the way you did was incredibly distasteful and downright misleading. First you show him alive, then fading in and out of consciousness, then for there to be hope, but then he just dies off screen. Seriously??? You don't even mention him in the outro when Edward is speaking. How was the reaction, did they move on, what were the reprecussions??? Also the Hall brothers timeline is incredibly hard to follow. Not to mention the story is wrapped up in like 20 seconds IN THE LAST PART OF THE LAST EPISODE. No sum up for Barry either? Did he continue to have a good working career? All things considered, this was not a good season. There were some things I liked but I just couldn't get myself to be excited each Friday. A lot more time should have been devoted for this. I'll always love the stories of Sodor, but this season is not included. Pacing, hard to follow story, killing off the wrong characters, episode length etc. I fully agree with Conrailfan76, this season was incredibly frustrating.
My views aren’t that low, but I did notice a drop in quality. The big part was benson’s death. Nearly 50 years handling war and he acts so careless in a military setting. Then they don’t even acknowledge him. I don’t want spoilers but if Thomas does die, they could do a tale of two Henry’s. I think that would be cool. Really, the only thing that has bothered me from the start is the shorter run time because it limits what all can be told. I wouldn’t be surprised if a fan project started just to rewrite the season. But I think I can understand where victor was when he was writing this. My guess is burnout. It’s one thing to do this as a hobby, but it becomes so much more stressful when you know people are counting on you to entertain them. Must be ten times worse knowing victor makes a living off of this. I just hope he learns and moves forward, but doesn’t let the criticism get to him.
And that's a fair assumption, and a fair viewpoint to have.
One possible twist I see playing out, is that the locomotive that 'died' wasn't Thomas.
So hear me out, and no, this isn't 'cope' happening.
In various stories, there's often reference to a locomotive that looks very much like Thomas, though that engine is named "Jinty". Jinty, in the canon, visited the island in 1956, before leaving at an undetermined date. He and Thomas were good friends, and were sometimes mistaken for each other.
So here's my thoughts: Jinty was present at the base when the accident happened. He saw Thomas pushing the fuel tanker back, and moved to help his friend, pulling it away from Thomas, who in turn became buried in rubble and 'lost' to the outside world. The tank car exploded, severely damaging Jinty, and burning his face enough that he couldn't be recognized, and was simply mistaken for Thomas.
I suspect they'll find Thomas at some point, maybe blown into the bay, or buried under building rubble. Very much alive, though battered.
It literally uses Thomas’s face pack extended side tanks and is too short
I can describe the steam-diesel plotline as a major jump-the-shark moment for the series.
I've SEEN a real steam locomotive converted to diesel power (a former Queensland cain industry locomotive at the Ginger Factoy) and it is nothing like what Victor described, and having BR roll this out to the rest of the steam fleet makes it even worse.
I used to admrie the world-building in the series, but now... I just don’t know...
How does it look then? Wanting to hear from someone with firsthand experience
I dont like how one of my fav charectors is a diesle in his lore 😢😢😢😢😢
And at that point i was not sure then i saw thomas die and i was like what
@user-nw2og1dy6l to be honest i was expecting thomas to go kaput the moment he took that tanker seems surprising but i guess by that point the word logic came in it be a tad unrealistic for thomas to make it out alive considering as well he's a steam locomotive that can also blow up and combine that with a ticking tanker time bomb well it's a recipe for disaster
Steam to Diesel conversion is fairly common for railroads in africa and the middle east, and was also done to some trains in the US.
But it isn't a cure all, after all we still replaced a lot of engines.
A major character death must be handled good. Otherwise, it just there for the plot to go without a lot of impact to the audience. I think the script needed more time to grow. I sadly stop watching the series, I liked it but I feel like I grown up or don’t feel the urge to watch it anymore. But at least it was my childhood and in some ways inspired to make my channel.
I have to say I can totally agree with everything you're saying. Up until this new Season 5, I enjoyed Stories Of Sodor for the most part. I do have my issues with it, coughchoicescough, but overall, the pacing, the lore, the mysteries, all done brilliantly.
But as you said, every episode of Season 5 felt very rushed, and nothing feels all that impactful, it all just feels like stuff that happened and that's it. Even Thomas' death didn't feel as shocking as it should be. Massive lugnuts on Victor to go through with such a plot point, but other than that, I felt nothing for it. It felt cheap, it felt undeserved. And in the long run not having Thomas around is gonna cause a few headaches, not least of all for Victor.
This season does have a few high points, I like what Vic did with Neil, Clive and Matthew, for instance, and the mystery of Mr Hall paying off that horrible accident all that time ago, brilliant stuff, but still somewhat poorly executed.
Season 5 definitely needs much improvement...an overhaul, if you will.
Definitely the worst season of SOS so far.
the idea of a steam engine somehow veing turned into a full-working diesel is ridiculous. it make no sense! thomas’ death was also so poorly executed. the twist that it was hall’s brother the whole time was just so stupid too. there was no resolution of true conclusion despite the “happy” ending we got
To be honest yeah I will say a lot is lacking in season 5, however one thing I do wanna bring up with him killing off the characters, is mainly out of fear of his episodes becoming CZcams kids, at least that how I see it still. I hope victor sees this, and when creating season 6 he is able to learn from this.
I'm surprised more people haven't noticed this.
Agree the amount of his videos that became for kids is getting ridiculous
Especially considering his series especially in the early years we're about screwing the other over
@@zyancuerdo1615 The day after that started happening he started posting vids specifically tailored to not be child friendly. Namely by putting morals at the end of his stories such as "remember violence solves everything".
this is being written before I watch the video but I agree. I understand what victar is trying to do with the deaths, making this a horrible year for sodor, but the reasons death worked in this series before was it wasn't expected. I honestly cried at adams death, it was treated so seriously and such and made it feel real. Another problem is a small nitpick but then way the engines talk. The last 4 seasons there was like a quick pause before each engine speaks while now they instantly go to talking. It makes talking way to clustered and feel rushed. The stories of sodor work with long episode full of meat and little things. this season has felt just too rushed.
Victor had a hard time writing season 5, and had to have help with some fans to get this season out. I kind of like season 5, but I think the main problems for me is one, length. The episodes are a bit too quick in some places, specially in the latest episode 9 (mainly the opening), but it’s probably me used to have around 15 to 20 minutes length episode seasons. My second main problems is of course that main characters get killed off. It’s okay for some characters but when you kill off Thomas and Jeffrey, that feels like crossing the line. I just hope that we won’t lose too many more in the season finale this week.
Mickey sacrifices himself, exact same reason and plotbeats as Lily. No one reacts, they don;t mention it in any impactful way. It just ends on generic happy tugs end theme. Sigh.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 please don’t tell me you just spoil the finale
I DID warn there were spoilers in the beginning of the video, so...
@MilesL.auto-train4013 huh so mickey dies next episode? Oof that's a shame but to be honest i was expecting it a little especially considering it's an entire works that gets destroyed no doubt someone gonna cut it though the question is who will replace him
The episodes this season aren’t really shorter than his older Stories of Sodor, it just the episodes are patted with montages and dialogue less scenes back to back. With little to no action involved.
In my opinion, the reason why season 5 wasn't as good as Seasons 2, 3, and 4 were because of the fans rushing him to make SOS Season 5. It also doesn't help that he's a full time CZcamsr now, and as such, needs to make some sort of Revenue, which puts more pressure on him to create Season 5.
I think all these factors is what caused Season 5 to turn out the way it did.
Also, to explain why Experiment exists. Edward remarked that the cutting up and Scrapping of Sentient engines is Illegal, but by the 1960's, there had to have been some sort of way to keep engines in service, while keeping BR's costs down, which was how the Hall Experiment was born.
Now, while seeming ludicrous and riduclous, it does make sense givem Season 3: Fog and Season 4: Diagnosis, both of them mention steamies being outdated and the idea of Parliament revoking the engines rights away was presented as a very real possibility. But According to Non-Faceless vehicles Special, Edward stated that they do have rights, and that special is from 2015, aka Modern day for SOS.
So in order to keep his continuity in check, he has to make the Experiment episode in order to honor the continuity he set up in the Special, and since BR cares about costs, this is the most logical solution. Also, Experiment mentions that Barry can't really push himself too hard, or the Boiler will overheat, in which Barry states that the heat from his motor was nothing compared to the heat his firebox made, meaning that his boiler was trapping heat in there causing him to overheat and break down. Just like what would happen in real life if something like this were to happen, also putting a motor into a steam engine isn't that farfetched, it's just a pain in the ass to do.
Yeahhh it’s a really noticeable difference between from shot to shot but I guess we’ll have to deal with it 😑
Yeahhh it’s a really noticeable difference between from shot to shot but I guess we’ll have to deal with it 😑
@@michaelmyers3912pretty much, also I'd season 5 be bad now, so victor can learn from his mistakes and improve to what is actually the most important Era of Sodor, 1966-1970.
Does anyone remember that Victor actually scraped what his original plan was of season 4 back when it was almost finished. There were previews of the episodes that completely vanished. Ie a scene of Toby talking to a guy at Elsebridge about Geffory and his ghost is watching from the top of the hill.
The problem I believe is both writers block and a desperate need to not disappoint. The fact that season 5’s runtime was half compared to what came before. Thats clear as day something is really wrong. There was no natural flow to any story point. Like Peter it’s a short montage of him finding out a German guy from the hospital is on the island. Him pulling the enthusiast train and being happy with his picture being taken. Then to him getting killed at the yard. Can I get some establishing with these shots?
While wanting to not disappoint the fans is something a good creator will always deal with. You should never sacrifice the quality your fans came to you for, for the quantity you think they desire.
Victor if you somehow read this. I absolutely love your work as it’s truly a stand out compared to the other big fan content. But please take the time you feel you need to make the best content I know you can do. And if that requires gaps in time between each season or special. So be it. And if you feel like you need some help. There’s plenty of amazing fans that would come to your aid.
I feel like if stories of sodor should continue i feel like most if not all of season 5 must be entirley retconned. It just felt like a checklist for "which character do we kill today" and peter's death was absolutely laughable
I don’t understand how the fuck people think experiment is the best one. I remember listening to it in the background while doing things and thinking it was good, until someone told me that they were actually basically steam outline engines. I think it actually took me like 30 seconds to comprehend that. Like it’s so dumb. Steam engines are inherently designed to trap and create heat, and what is a problem Diesel engines often have to be designed around? OVERHEATING! That’s not even like a train nerd thing to realize it’s just basic logic. And yes steam outlines do exist but those are usually either like theme park engines or they’re never put underneath the stress of mainline operations. It’s actually amazing because that one completely morphed how I viewed the other ones. Like they turned from bad to passable. (Though I guess that’s more of a testament to how petty I am about certain things lol)
With that out of the way; People complain about the fact he was killing characters, but personally to me that’s not the problem. the problem lies within the execution. The point of the season is supposed to be death and mystery but we never even get a second to breath. Plus everyone figured it out like 3 episodes in. Maybe if he devoted more time to it than the ridiculous conversion plot this season would’ve turned out different (though it probably would’ve helped if he went back to 20-25 minute episodes.)
Also isn’t this the end of steam? It’s 1965 and yet par the one line from Oliver it’s never mentioned. This isn’t the grimy dirty industrial time of 1960s BR it’s basically what sodor should be like during the early 30s just with diesels and more modern designs.
Victor can make good stories it’s just that I think he kinda rushed this one.
It being the "best" is more about it being the "least worst" in this case.
It's 3 years prior to the 15 Guinea Special but Steam on BR was on the way out by the mid 60s. Why BR would even allow this since they would've already known from the Kitson-Stills project that it absolutely COULD NOT work or be economical.
@@HazelReserveUnit the entire western region steam roster was gone by the end of 1965 (par like two 5700s)
I will say, I think some people are a little bit too extreme with their criticisms of the series. Hell some of the stuff I see on Twitter from some people (I won’t name names) aren’t even criticizing or Satirizing it; they’re just basically bullying someone. I don’t think victor is a bad person (mostly because I’ve never talked to the guy) and I don’t think he deserves as much hate as he gets. Sure he does clickbate and shock value but those are just so he has a presence between seasons. Not to mention other members of the fandom have done much worse (cough cough Carson literally doxed a minor yet the whole fandom celebrates everything he makes). While that doesn’t necessarily excuse any qualms a person might have with him, it does show that we really should try and redirect some of the attention he’s getting to something more worthwhile ig.
I think he should “invest” in a script proofing team of some sort. Perhaps maybe even a role on patreon? He has the capability to write good and I can still see that in some of his new season. However, the shorter run times; the constant silent montages he does (seriously victor if you’re reading this tone them down a bit, we don’t need them every episode); the overall pacing is just too much.
@@Reading3412Studios Some sort of script-proofing is, to me, definitely a need. A lot of these small issues I have with the episodes could've readily been handled if any proofing did a done-over of what he had planned out. I also think Victor's made a lot of really good episodes, but to me these recent ones haven't feel quite the same.
I also understand that pressure's mounted for these to get out, but to me that also doesn't excuse sub-par writing and pacing. It's like getting a soup except there's no broth. Again, not saying it's Victor's fault but, with the way the conditions around this whole season have been it was bound to happen sometime.
And to be fair, the concepts presented are good. And the execution for some had me thinking, but it sort of fell flat for me as a whole. Not the worst but also not exactly what I was expecting either.
I just finished watching Fallout.
I can understand your frustration and disappointment of season 5 compare to the previous 4 seasons of Stories of Sodor
You know what? This season might just need a redo. It can be fixed. It could be a lot better than what we got, which was so rushed I can't even remember half the stuff that happened this season.
I understand they had to kill characters off but did Victor really have to kill Thomas off? Bro it’s nothing but trying to kill or successful kills Like
Gefforys death (even though it would’ve been Henry)
Emily accidentally killing someone
Henry almost dying
Mats hallucination with Pat
Peter and Mr Zoros death
Benson being dumb
Then Thomas? Seriously. This was more brutal than Stories of War like Wtf
It really was a grim year on Sodor
@@Shiny_Firey1965 is 2020 for Sodor
this season should have been the miniseries after season 4.
like, the SCP miniseries was one of my favourites, but it could have easily been a post-series thing, no?
the lower episode count (and longer episodes) would have suited this season VERY well, it being about a single year and all.
I have two theories as to why Victor killed off Thomas:
1. As a statement against how overused Thomas is
2. To get COPPA off his back and stop CZcams from labeling ALL of his videos as "Made For Kids"
As for possible outcomes regarding Thomas:
1. He's only "mostly dead" like in The Princess Bride, and eventually comes back
2. The Fat Controller lied about him being dead, and sent him off to an SCP Foundation facility for a heavy rebuild
3. British Rail seizes on the publicity of the Railway Series and orders The Fat Controller to build a replica; this replica Thomas has a First Firing, and is closer in mentality to the CGI series, being too nice and spouting blind praise for BR's policies
4. He stays dead, and the engines become increasingly disgusted with how ruthlessly Thomas' image is being exploited and abused for profit by increasingly-greedy companies such as HiT Entertainment and Mattel
A. Both are terrible.
B. All are equally terrifying if they are the case.
And this is why when I write a good story, I take months at best to complete the script because I’m constantly thinking of ideas and what could be best for the series. From what I see, it looks as if the stories have been written in a few WEEKS.
Oh well, at least it’s not one day lol
I think season 5 was, on paper, a great season. Had each episode been five minutes longer and had the story been given more time to breathe, I think this season would've worked really well.
My thoughts on season 5 is just like yours. With the whole steam-diesel conversion and killing off Thomas and everything else. I honestly didn’t think Victor would go as far killing off a main character, let alone the star of the Thomas franchise, but he did. Which that’s the mistake the creators of the Transformers 1986 film had made. They killed off Optimus Prime despite him being the most popular character in their franchise. Granted, this is his series, but I don’t think it was the right call, especially since he barely showed up in this season.
I do agree that this season was rushed. Victor probably was pressured by the fandom to make it, but I think this also has to do with the fact that he is relying on his income by keeping his audience entertained. Ever since he announced that he quit his job to become a full time CZcamsr, I had a bad feeling this was not going to end well for him. I had to question myself “What happens if he runs out of ideas? What if his content wasn’t as good as before?” I say to a lot of people to never rely on CZcams or TikTok for your income. It maybe good at one point, but it does not last forever, and really wished Victor had just kept his CZcams channel as a hobby.
I wish Victor the best of luck, but I don’t know if I would keep watching his videos for much longer.
Wait, he quit his job?
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 He mentioned it in one of his shorts. Patreon is what it is called.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 He quit his store job back in early 2022 when he wanted to focus on CZcams, that's why the Patreon existed in the first place.
What I don’t understand is why people are so adamant on trying to dictate what Victor should and shouldn’t put in his stories, and as much as I do agree that season 5 was a drop off in quality, there were a decent amount of really good moments that hardly get mentioned, if not at all, because everyone has been swept up in this wave of hate towards his content. Ultimately my opinion is that he has shown he has better writing capabilities and can produce to a higher standard, and this could potentially just be a minor bump in the road, but if you don’t have that faith in him and don’t like his content then don’t watch it, simple
I'd hardly call it 'minor,' but I somewhat agree to an extent.
However, this is viewed as a fan who expected something great but was disappointed. So the 'if you don't like it, don't watch" doesn't apply here - and shouldn't really be applied for the most part, period. You have to watch something to fully dictate if you like it or not, so.....
I personally just think people need to be careful not to present subjective opinion as outright fact. Also i'm not specifically talking about you or anyone in particular when i say someone shouldn't watch, but you see so many talk about how they're 'done with the series' and 'have lost all faith in Victor' but then continue to subscribe to his patreon and leak his videos early and still watch his content, only to take the piss out of it. As not so much an outsider, but someone relatively new to the Thomas online fanbase, i dind't expect such an incredibly toxic response to someone just making content they hopefully enjoy. Side-note as well, maybe minor wasn't the right word, if anything no-one will be able to tell exactly how much of a derailment this will be until the next series, just no need to jump to conclusions.
I can only agree with you on that. That's not a good thing to do, and I do wish for it to stop. In fact, if they hate Victor so much to do, it, then they're only giving Victor more benefits because didn't he report an increase in Patreon subscribers, which in turn means more money? and wouldn't;t such reaffirm what he's doing now as the 'right' path? What's the word, 'toxic positivity'?
Season 5, it sorta feels like the ending to a movie where the feeling is “You can’t do anything, it’s over”, now I must admit, I can sorta understand Victor’s killing off of characters, however, I feel the method has been a bit too used, I mean, I feel that Peter sorta had it coming, I mean, I’m not going to be surprised when a family member of someone I killed went after my ass. But as for Geoffrey, and the others who I think are going to be killed, I’d just say that, they didn’t deserve to die, and as for the steam diesel conversion, I’m not too happy with that, this season, is, in Unlucky Tugs words, “The final blow that sank the ship”. Anyways, I’m just hoping that one day (after this season gets finished) That Victor would recreate the entire season, but if it were up too me writing this, I’d probably try and slow down, extend things here and there, and maybe just maybe, keep Geoffrey, Mickey, and Thomas alive.
I agree with the pacing being all over the place, the distinct lack of consequence or reaction to any and all major developments, and the pay-off for all of the build-up was not worth it, but I draw the line in the sand when it comes to the steam-diesel conversion controversy. That existing doesn't automatically mean tons more steam engines would be preserved in-canon than they were IRL, so it doesn't inherently guarantee every preservation group or heritage railway will do this to their engines, thereby completely throwing any coherence with reality out the window.
For one thing, they'd want to preserve the engines as they are, as heritage railways like to have *steam* engines, *actual* ones. For another, it's implied this conversion process is risky, and expensive. It took the engineering genius of Mr Hall to pull it off, and not every railway has it's own Mr Hall. And even still, not every railway would have the funds to attempt this, nor the bravery to risk one of their engines dying or becoming inoperable. BR, however, *can,* and they *would.* Sure, they don't give a damn about steam and aren't fond of spending money on them, but when you look at it from the perspective of how much they've invested in diesels, and view the conversion as them just, *building more diesels,* you can see how they absolutely would. Plus, these are sentient vehicles they are legally obliged to care for, and if it improves their performance, and they want it, BR would 100% justify the cost.
They'd have no choice but to, and there's little downside for them financially. Them converting all non-faceless steamies to diesels would look the same on paper as them ordering more un-tested prototypes, and then massive batches of them, *(which they had a habit of doing.)* Overall, I enjoyed this season, despite is flaws, and I don't think it introduced anything particularly damaging to the world-building or it's overall following of normal history..
It introduced a LOT to damage the worldbuilding. Others in this comment section have gone far more in-depth than I did. And, a friend of mine, stephenhawley113, has also detailed why the SDC is absolute bull.
My biggest complaints is the lack of consequence or even reaction to the character deaths. Look at how Adam’s and even Randolph’s death was handled in season 4. With Adam’s death not only did we get a reaction, we saw the fallout in the next episode with Josh’s presence. Randolph despite being a brand new character their death gets more attention then Peter, Mickey, Thomas, and Geoffrey. Benson’s death gets the most attention just from the engines despising him.
1. I can understand your gripe about the steam deisel conversion,but werent american steamers converted to oil in the 30s and 40s,maybe victar couldve done that instead even though he technically did
2.i liked the series,yes there was this build ups and lets downs,Geoffreys dies of stale macroni, but it was still good in my eyes
Many US steamers were converted to burn oil instead of coal, yes, but not turned into full-on diesel locomotives. They still ran with steam.
Actually, while "Experiment" was a good enough episode of this season, I disagree that that one was THE less worst episode of this season. That would actually have to go to "Competition". THAT one was overall not at all too bad, a lot of it was really good and funny, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. It was completely entertaining and hilarious, and I really enjoyed it a lot. Especially seeing Bulgy and George get their comeuppances.
I have to agree with you 100% here. Victor dropped the ball here. And, that’s saying something because I was once in the same position writing wise, where the characters and story concepts were good, except it was paced too fast and not written well enough plot wise, or it over-explained. E.g. you write the beginning scene of “Edward’s day out” but instead of jumping straight into the story you explain EVERY SINGLE ENGINE IN DETAIL ONE BY ONE and it got to the point where you lost the reader and it just… doesn’t work.
These however in my case were fixed because I had someone there to lead me in the right direction.
In the case of season 5, I agree 100% with you on many things. Story jumps around a bit, okay that’s a sign of it being rushed, this plot line about a revenge of what happened 30 years ago, fantastic idea, poorly executed. Converting STEAM ENGINES INTO DIESELS?? No. Just no. I draw the line there because what’s the point of scrapping the faceless steamers too if you can just convert ALL of them into diesels? Wouldn’t there be you know… some non faceless steam locomotives that are “Anti-overhaul” just like there were people being “Anti-Diesel” back then. Not to mention killing off the main character… it’s gonna backfire drastically if Victor doesn’t take this advice into account and fix these writing problems.
If it were me, this is what I’d change.
1. First and foremost, have the rail v road conflict either last over three episodes, concluding with both putting their differences aside to save the island. Or have it in one episode where at the end point they put their differences aside to investigate the saboteur because the roads and railway get equally targeted.
2. It helps if the “twin brother plans revenge” plot is better placed in the stories. It helps if the main plot pokes its head in every episode. Because if you drop the main plot in a single one-off small story with no mention of the halls, the reader/viewer forgets about the main story. It’s like smack bang in the middle of a Harry Potter book, we spend a chapter with Voldemort going shopping for evil things. While it may seem like a funny idea, it doesn’t serve the plot.
3. I would not kill off Thomas, because it has no impact, not that it doesn’t at all because he’s a main, but because he hasn’t done anything in season 5. If it were me, I’d send off benson with a bang. But either end it two ways: 1. The tugs route where Thomas is battered, bruised, but unbeaten and alive. Or 2. Have a character that works on a line with oil trains. - Sheffield. Also I’d make the characters sound less “TUGS”-like. It’s a bit too jarring. I’d also change it so you’d see the main villain plant a stick of dynamite or something in the gunpowder vans benson shunts.
Finally, I’d also make munitions a bit longer too. To show off more dialogue, and the main villain cause more chaos and perhaps show himself. Leaving the final episode for him to have a confrontation with Rob, and the engines and road vehicles tracking down and catching the villain, only for him to getaway on a boat leaving it to the viewers interpretations if he got caught, or comes back. Then I’d conclude the season with the island recovering, and showing the effects it had on the characters.
Have to say that yer criticism of "Experiment" is pretty similar to mine, mate.
One may suppose that on one hand; sort-of-realistically from the perspective of a none-faceless steam loco wishing to remain in active service as long as possible, it would be ideal to be "upgraded" to have one's working life-span last longer.
But on the other hand; having all of the none-faceless steam locos literally converted from steam to diesel power makes them loose all the charm and historic value they once had - making them give the feels of cheap theme park attractions that each have only the hollow shell of what we're supposed to find likeable. And it'd pretty much result in them snobby diesels like Francis coming out on top in the end anyway. Talk about cheap shots in the long run being glorified.
... Ntm it lead to some disturbing inner visions of how the conversion/"transition" process would go, like the steam engines' insides being completely gutted from their pipes and other original parts and simply having in a diesel-electric generator thrust in place... Kinda gives me the dystopian from-human-to-android-kind of vibes...
No disrespect to Mr. Tanzig either, I'm certain he did his best with all the pressure put on him, and I admit that I tolerated everything else in the series - if anything I praise his series for how pro-therapy it's been - but have to say that the "Steam-Diesel-Conversion"-thing was my biggest gripe.
I completely agree with you he really dropped the ball on this season and it doesn't feel like Thomas & Friends.
Because this would tie into his universe of what he had created but also tie into the real life events that were happening in Great Britain in real life. I have actually terminated my subscription to him on patreon because after this there's no coming back from it even if he has to do a full retcon of what he did it's still going to be many months even up to a year or so before he even gets back into season 6. And I'm afraid the damage has already been done.
I see why people dislike it now. I enjoy the story he told but the short runtime was an issue with me at the start too. I hope for a 20 episode again.
So it turns out that it was Robert's twin brother all along who's behind the tragic event especially Thomas the Tank Engine.
Everyone knew.
To be perfectly honest, this season had more downs than ups, timings were too short, dialogues is a bit off, and some deaths came too early. What I liked about the earlier seasons is that they had a level of realism and translation to the real world, the engines talking about topics that actually happened, and a more realistic view of that happened in the railway series books. This season almost if not entirely lacks of that. This season feels more like a miniseries of an au of Vic's. As for Robert hall as a character there was so much potential there, a Jekyll/Hyde moment would have been in my eyes the perfect way to play out, like his slow descent into madness happens after his father's death and he enacts his revenge until he is caught in his own trap. And if I'm gonna be honest here killing off Thomas was almost if not a let down in himself, plus Benson could've been handled differently, if Thomas and Bruce had switched places I honestly wouldn'tve minded one bit. A character who had a change of heart dies protecting the engines and keeping the fire from being worse would've been much better than a cheeky blue bastard who has less screen time in this season than any other only to be killed off in as far as I know the only episode I've seen him in this season? Not to mention some of the models should've been updated a few years ago if im being honest here, but that's a whole other conversation to have. TL;dr the trailer was a better rendition of 1965 than the series entirely, and I have said what I have said.
I would like to say that a lot of the people genuinely upset at the supposed "state of the series" is very nitpicking and kinda outright wrong.
This is the first season to happen within only a single year.
This is also the first season, yes full season where the premise is not happy or even run of the mill. Instead this season and the year it covers is a troubled one brought by civil disorder, deaths of long known and even loved characters, rapid changes to the railroad industry and how to adapt to stay afloat as well as targeted acts to cause massive damage to the railroad and it's staff. The only comparison is really the Stories of War mini series but it's ww2 so everyone didn't expect good moments that much.
If you notice these episodes are the shortest on average for the entire series. That being said the type of story telling is one that the series has not really gone all in on, which is visual oriented story telling.
Many say that the stories are rushed and lacking, but if you sit, somewhat turn off your brain and just watch what's happening then the context and the story tells a lot of itself through those non-dialogue segments.
Now I will admit that maybe some stories could have used an extra couple minutes to kinda sell home some of the more impactful stuff.
As it seems a lot of people are nitpicking about the viability in universe the steam to diesel conversion project has given.
However I would point out that this project would likely only be afforded to non-faceless locomotives if they were given the choice as for example take Whiff's situation back a season or so ago.
Whiff was told that they couldn't afford him, so they asked if he'd be okay to be sold or to join a heritage railway. Whiff likes to work and so chose the only other option that he felt was right which was the final firing. So steam to diesel is seen now as another option. However in any hobby, especially those with fundamental changes there will always be purest, so some heritage railways would still do original steam engines, whether or not they're faceless or non-faceless is up to not only the railway but to the engines they buy and keep over time.
These are all terrible defenses to be made. None of this excuses the quality of the storytelling, or even how it breaks the rules of good writing.
And by the way, that's not how _show, don't tell_ works. And these are;t nitpicks, they pertain to the key and central plots and ideas of the series - not something minuscule like saying the shade of green is wrong.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 Honestly I think you're more miffed cause you made a story for the series and it likely didn't go exactly how you wanted it to.
Like again, I'm not saying any of the criticism is in bad nature, I'm just saying it seems more like nitpicking then it is of the more constructive nature, which considering the video is mostly a rant does prove that point.
It's one thing to be upset, it's another to start spreading and voicing to those around that something is bad, without really any constructive criticism behind it to give more substance to your point of view.
Why do you think I was more indifferent or why I didn't just say "lol mad cause bad" or something stupid to that effect.
Cause you and other people have some genuine criticisms.
The stories are shorter and do feel a lot faster in their pacing compared to any other time in the series, especially considering the fact that again, this series has the lowest run time average.
But when I sit there and watch it, especially on the heels of essentially rewatching the series again, the overall feeling these stories give me impressions wise are not really that different to any other time in the series.
Their shorter yes but that's cause their not covering anything that spans months at a time. They all do tie into each other, but more of a true episodic manner as it's showing the events which directly progressed within the year of 1965.
As for the story telling itself, there is easy to tell of a beginning, a rise, a peak, a fall and a ending.
While the pacing is fast, the over arching turmoil of the year and the events which happen do mean that there was a lot more engagement between the engines, meaning story telling via dialogue is not always needed and I believe that the non- verbal segments do just as good of a job at illustrating a series of interactions between characters while keeping to the overall theme of the episode itself.
Is it the best season, not really. But as someone who's seen, listen and watched actual bad story telling and forced to be through some actual bad story telling, this is far from it.
Of course I'm miffed, but not for whatever rhetoric you're making. I put faith in the series and even paid for it, only to get something mediocre in return. And your argument that I'm "spreading and voicing to those around that something is bad, without really any constructive criticism behind it to give more substance to [my] point of view." Did you even LISTEN to any of the actual points I made, or are you cherry-picking my angry sighs in between?
Also, I do believe what you say has merit, but I think you need to reevaluate your understanding of how stakes work, and how character interactions are essential to the worldbuilding and for the plot + impact itself. You talk about 'engagement,' but you seemingly missed the part where I say 'The characters don't react and have no lasting consequences or emotions" ... compare with Duncan and Andreas, Gordon to both Adam and Peter, Douglas (I think?) to Lily and Henry. Freaking, Thomas and Kate I guess. And the shorter stories is an active NEGATIVE because it's all rushed and crammed. No breathing room to let any emotions sink in or any consequences to be fleshed out. It's just one and done.
I agree there's worse story writing, but this is not something super low quality for even something like those I don't care about. The man makes almost $1K a MONTH doing these. I only helped to add to that total. Is it really fair to disregard everything and call it a 'nitpick' for _that?_
Also, *they're
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 I did watch your whole video, which is why I wanted to make a statement about it.
As for the lack of interaction of grief, there wasn't much shown cause there wasn't much told.
Not to mention at the very least that at least for Geoffrey's passing they were sad and that sadness was overtaken by anger when they found out how he died.
Peter was only back a year and it was stated that some still didn't forgive him, but we're at the least still cordial for him being back and helping around.
However, being gone for 15yrs then only being back for 1 year only to be taken away again would be saddening to those that were fully happy with him being back, but the time gone and his return being so short as well as them already suffering a death with the fact as well that those who did really feel happy about him being back fought in the war and understand that death is a fact of life itself.
It's no wonder then why after Geoffrey's death, Peter, Mr. Zorro, Benson and Thomas are seen as stabbing the same hole which was created.
The most ironic thing about this series is that while it's writing is not the best, especially when you look at pacing, this scarily imitates real life more so then many give it credit for.
Loss of life and death as well as having constant struggle tends to shut a lot of people down, both emotionally and verbally.
I think a lot of this season's issues stem from the fact it's contained within 1 year and that it's doing new things that the series has never really dealt with on such a scale or consistency before.
Sigh, again: "Show; don't tell."
Now I know it was a grim year but so many people dying especially when they showed Thomas's death which I hope it was a joke but if it wasn't then were gonna be brought with probably most of the cast dead by the end of the season as it seams like it
I hard agree on you going "he lost me at the steam/deisel hybrid part". Things could have gone so many different ways that made sense and yet the way it did leaves me baffled.
And i also agree on suspending my disbelief on what the series did stories of war and onward. Not my series, after all. Hell, i use some of victor's logic in a series idea in the back of my mind, as i find it makes at least some sense (metal fatigue i view in a ship of thesis manner to non-faceless engines, in you can only replace so much before the engine isnt the same and therefore loses its spark of life, if that makes sense). These are trains with faces, sometimes you gotta lean i to the bullshit no matter how grounded a series can seem.
Hoping victor considers giving season 5 a rewrite in future based on some of the criticism season 5's gotten. I dont hope for much, but i think if given the right attention, then season 5 can perhaps shine a little brighter.
i think one of my bigger issues with this season that you didnt really touch on fully was that victor used WAY too much of the "show dont tell" style of storytelling. where characters are sitting there talking and reacting but we dont know what they're saying, and yes, that COULD work. up until this season i say it worked pretty well. victor got away with doing it so much because the older episodes were longer and more drawn out and methodical. if you really look at it, he did the show dont tell as much as he used to in prior seasons. but because the episodes are so much more fast paced and shorter, sometimes it seems to take up half the runtime. and of course, my biggest issue is exactly what u said with the final two episodes. Thomas dies, and all we got was "He was a good man" i can understand victor using that for some of the lesser known characters, ie Geoffrey, Andreas, etc. but this is THOMAS. if it wasnt for this blue tank engine this whole series and everything else wouldnt exist. THE FRANCHISE CHARACTER DIES and all we get is a show dont tell scene of all the engines looking at him and probably saying something, percy especially, thomas' best friend since the 1900s doesnt even get an audible goodbye. i was really looking forward to this season. to be able to sink my teeth into 10 20+ min episodes and maybe a finale over 30 mins. but nope, not one episode goes over 20 mins and if u cut out the intro and outros, half of them are less than 10 mins. i understand he wasnt happy with the season and started again with a clean slate, but what we got was way too rushed and it shows. the fanbase would have been more than happy imo if victor took his sweet time and made episodes like we love him for. i found victors series whem season 1 episode 2 was previewed. and as you, it was at a really low time in my life. i have him to thank for being some of why im still here and if im honest it hurts to see him get this much flak. i really hope he reads through all the feedback and criticism he gets and takes it in stride for next season. great video man, u helped vent alot of peoples frustrations on their behalf and get the word out there to a greater audience.
I agree with you. Season 5 was a real let down for me when thinking about how the last seasons were.
Especially the newest episode Munitions was not for me. It was just a remake of TUGS' Munitions with TTTE nad OC Characters. It wasn't as good and I was really disappointed.
I really enjoyed Season 3 and 4. They were my fav seasons and I had high hopes for a fifth season.
If there will be a sixth season I hope it will be better.
And yes I know how difficult and time consuming filming and writing is. Especially when doing a trainz series.
[sweats in documentary taking 8 years to make]
I did suggested an episode idea to Victor about poeple (Including the Reverend) protesting the Overhaul idea and he said that wasn't a bad idea.
Victor was under a lot of stress from fans to give them content, so it makes sense why he just decided to shut down most of his communications that YOU fans kept distracting him with. Sorry that the series wasn’t as perfect as you guys wanted it, but you gotta learn to just shut up and let Victor do his things, and let him make the series. It’s a lot like Cyberpunk 2077. If you didn’t want it then why did you ask for it?
If Victor was really trying to deliver, He'd actually spend time making and writing the stories instead of blatant lazy writing just to get a video out.
You are the reason people call the Thomas community toxic.
From my perspective, Season 5 is a mixed bag. There were some enjoyable moments to be sure, but like you said, it's like we're racing from thing to thing, and we don't have time to process the consequences/implications from everything that's going on. The pacing isn't quite there yet. Maybe it could've worked if the season was split into two parts, each one lasting between five and ten episodes. One half focused on the Revenge Plot and the other half could focus on the happenings of the Little Western, but hey, maybe it's just me.
I think a longer run time and better character development woulda done better, but I agree otherwise.
When I saw that the episodes are shorter and the leaked episode where Thomas dies, I knew people would get mad.
Thank you SO much for addressing the elephant in the room, I agree with you 100% on how Victor dropped the ball with Season 5. As much as I enjoyed it, I can only give this season a 5.5 out of 10 rating because of everything you described where he went wrong. I can only hope Victor will take what you’ve said in this video and apply it to the future of his channel.
Honesty I feel like you brought up a lot of good points regarding the poor quality of season 5. My biggest gripe regarding the new season has to be the steam-diesel conversion thing, I am well aware that a handful steam engines were outfitted with diesel motors, but the thing was that those conversions were incredibility rare and the few converted locomotives were sent to places like theme parks and small industries where the workload was quite minimal. This contrasts to the locomotives featured in the Stories of Sodor where you see these big mainline locomotives get the steam-diesel conversion on a mass scale. In reality, this would not work well at all considering the heavy trains these locomotives would need to pull on a daily basis, this would result in all the converted locomotives having frequent breakdowns because they were never designed to have a diesel motor installed in them, thus causing them to overheat while under stress. Another gripe I had with these series was the unnecessary amount of deaths featured, we had Mickey, Thomas, Geoffrey, Peter, etc. bite the dust regularly during this season. Peter's death was especially unnecessary as he had barely any screen time after his return following his 15 year sentence in prison and all we've seen from him prior to his death was him complaining, he didn't even have time to get a arc before he was killed. The problems I've encountered in this season goes on and on that I should make a video regarding my thoughts on season 5 of the show.
Yeah I have to agree that Season 5 did not reach the potential that it could’ve. The pacing was just too fast on some occasions and most of the characters deaths didn’t need to happen. I really think this season needs a rewrite and then it could’ve been perfect. Maybe a remake with a lot of changes made to make it better should happen.
I have not watched these yet however I will say there are a few instances I know of steam engines being converted to diesel. It is what I classify as “Man made horrors beyond comprehension”
More detail in part 2.
I thought of Season 5 as decent. My only problem with this season was the timeline. Leaving Season 4 off with the grand opening of the Little Western, I thought Season 5 would start where we left off, not starting a whole new arc. I also didn't like how so many characters were killed off within one season. All I can say, this season had some good moments, but the tone was very, very dark.
You are not the only big critic. I have a friend who thinks The Stories of Sodor fell after Season 2 and that some of the Sodor Shorts were in very bad taste. If Season 5 is the last season of Stories of Sodor, then I won't complain. I'm losing interest in it too. And being honest here, I think Victor Tanzig could have ended his series right at Season 4's "Return" with the SCP Mini-Series being a supplement for that and I think many people would have been content with that. I know I would have. Like you said when you read that Tweet from TheBuriedTruck, a good part of story telling to keep the audience guessing about things and the story "Return" as well as the SCP Mini-series certainly did that.
If I may, it honestly felt like S4 felt like a series finale lmao
I realized how long my comment was So im gonna summarize it with a Shafriles quote, " when the rest of the series in on the level of the Sistine Chapel, the macaroni art isn't going to cut it".
One thing I will say on victor's shorts, he needs to cut down on the edgy/offensive humor. It's fine in small doses, but he's stepped way over the line with what he tries to get away with.
I can't really argue with that, but either way, I don't think this is the end of the series, just the worst of it, but yeah the shorts have been getting out of hand recently
I feel like Victor should take a good break from the series to recover from burnout so season 6 doesn't suffer the same fate season 5 did
Honestly I feel like the biggest problem is there isn’t enough time for stuff mainly because the episodes are shorter now.
Victor Tanzig, for all his flaws and achievements, is a good story teller when he tries. The problem I have always had with the series was the basis in which it was built on.
The TUGS allegory has only taken this series so far. After the first couple seasons, arguably when Stories of War came out, it had run it's course. I've never been a big fan of "mature Thomas" content (which is rich coming from a twenty-four year old man). The relationships, the cursing, the deaths? It is so far removed from Thomas for me that I have slowly lost my love for this series as a whole.
I will admit something in this comment section. I was once in the creator sphere and was developing my own series. Though due to ADHD complications, life in general, and lack of experience with Trainz I ended up scrapping the project unceremoniously (even with updates and trailers existing). I had my own vision for a Thomas series and was going to do an "alternative" take on the story. This was panned by most people in the creator sphere that I spoke with. This ultimately contributed to my choice to end all development going forward. I was going to have similar subplots (relationships) within mine.
In hindsight, I realize how.. weird it is. Especially under the context in which I was going to frame it. I was too busy trying to make these trains into characters, that I forgot they are sentient machines. I lost sight of why I loved Thomas to begin with and my own hubris unraveled beneath the lore and world that was established by the Reverend. So why continue?
I think that is what, to me at least, is the ultimate problem with Victor's series. Most people, especially younger audiences, will not mind some of the inconsistences or the changes made to the canon. They won't mind the jokes, or the oversaturation of contrivances. But older fans will become hyper critical and cringe at the overuse of vulgarity and serious themes. Because, after all, this is Thomas. I don't think anyone wanted nor needed Edward going to a concentration camp.
I truly do appreciate and respect Victors tireless work on the Stories of Sodor. His first season was what inspired me to take a stab at my own, whereas Skarloey123 and WildnorWester were the first to put that passion inside me. But the series has ultimately ran it's course, I believe. It's world has gotten too far from it's basis and now is hard to watch. Yet I persist. Because his determination, passion, and desire to craft meaningful stories cannot help but keep me watching. It's a vicious cycle.
I believe in empassioned criticism. So good job breaking the mold and saying what you thought. Many people may disagree or become angry with you, but I respect it. Just as much as I respect Victor's work.
*Sees name of video title* *me being a member of Victor’s Patreon and have watched the last episode and knows what the CZcams viewer are in for* Me: Sounds about right 😶
Tbh I can’t help but agree though begrudgingly since I haven’t seen the last episode since I’m not a patron. I also feel like the deaths are getting a little too many. I joked during Vandalism just as the Opening music was playing “I wonder how many characters will die this season” I’d expected death in the season but all the engine deaths this season have been a tad silly. Geoffrey has survived worse(that crash was bad but I just can’t see it), Peter(I didn’t like the justification for Peter’s punishment and I certainly didn’t with why the man wanted revenge) and Thomas(I hope what you said isn’t true but I suspect it is. Thomas was just holding the burning fuel for way too long for it to be believable).
Peter's Death, at least in-universe, made freaking sense. I could get behind that one for the sake of the worldbuilding.
As I can not tell you how accurate that word is, 'begrudgingly" ... You described me when asking myself if I was truly enjoying S5, lol.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 As I said I haven’t seen the last episode but Thomas dead? How could you have that happen and not have it focus on the engines coming to terms with it. I’ve only got to conclusion is that killing off characters has become like a bad game of Russian roulette with Victor and I wish I didn’t agree with you. There is one small correction I would like to make but it’s tiny because the scale of it in real life was tiny but some diesel engines were build to resemble steam engines(can’t remember why but I’ve seen a video of one on a heritage line) I’ve got to assume that’s what Victor was referencing but the whole conversion thing….maybe should have been an attempt that didn’t work(like hall attempts it but it fails and it makes him in the eyes of the viewers look even more guilty. The fat controller may have approved such a measure as a delaying tactic too, I feel like desalination should be the focus like British Railway wants the whole network to be run by diesels to drive steam engines onto heritage lines and museums but the fat controller is trying to protect them for as long as he can and that would make one death the series can’t escape all the more devastating(The fat controller I think was said to be in his 70s or 80s). I’m just saying that’s what I think.
I'd suggest looking throughout this comment section for comments made by
@stephenhawley113, he goes much more in-depth about this. He's responded to a few of the comments here.
This is why SANTA killed Victor in that special, THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR KILLING SO MANY CHARACTERS IN SEASON 5! I also enjoyed the series but then... Good characters like geoffrey and Thomas died, well Thomas isn't dead probably as in the answer video they said "the faces of a non faceless vehicle when they die fades away" and listen Thomas' face isn't faded yet right? Well I'm pretty sure it's sad to say they killed alot of the engines and especially the good ones too. Just remember, what I said is a theory. It's very weird that Barry in the intro for the past seasons were just normal until it was changed when he was rediscovered
Ok so, um, steam diesel hybrids were actual experiments at on point. So, uh yea.
If you read the comment replies by @stephenhawley113, you'll see why that's vastly different and would also never feasibly work.
Season 5, seems to trying to achieve too much in a short amount of time. I enjoy his way of telling the story and he has a good habit of closing plots rather leaving them hanging around too long.... but this season seems to have been rushed and not polished as well.
Jeffrey dying in first episode should have had a much more impact, such as British Rail coming down on Sir Topham, making it more difficult to run steam. Now Benson I can understand, but Peter could have been killed during the Harbour scene after which being hailed as a heros of the hour then is murdered by the German visitor. It would have had more impact as it would be more understanding and would have punched us (the audience) in the guts as his arc on showing he was more than his past.
Experiment, i agree with your assessment that a desiel powered engine is harder to believe rather than switching to oil (which is occurred in reality).
Finally, i enjoyed your assessment of the series thus far, @Miles Lee; you should be proud of your work and dont allow others to judge you. I myself am attempting to write own series of stories, set later in the 1980s Sodor, it's hard to write without the original series not influencing you somehow.
The whole World War Two series in my eyes was terrible and the trains racing around with guns isn't the worst of it, it could have given a whole new perspective focusing on logsitics and the background. A hospital being bombed is one thing but what really sticks is watching a carridge of people being drowned, *THAT* is something I see the trains of this universe doing instead of effectively mind controlling the firing mechanisms of their guns like they're Jonny Cuba!
I could look past that at least for the most part. But it REALLY took some straining to do so. I guess almost to the point of gaslighting myself, lmao.
If you think converting steam to diesel was ridiculous, wait until you see the Sodor SCP series where Victor introduces time traveling standing stones and makes Mr. Star King Godred and Old Bailey King Croven… (the SCP series was the moment where I was like “holy crap, I don’t think I can defend Victor or The Stories Of Sodor anymore”.)
Was waiting for someone to pull this stunt (edit: misread, but my points shall still stand) - in that instance, it's not treated as outright canon. If anything, it's left pretty ambiguous (though heavily implied). I can tolerate playing with mythos. Of course, that isn't to say I don't have my own gripes and criticisms with the SCP series, it was also a letdown in its own right.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 But… Time traveling standing stones… Come on.
I also think the season went downhill. The stories just weren’t interesting after Training. Munitions is probably the nuke to the series
Dude you're taking it too seriously you need to understand something he's a guy making CZcams videos he's not a damn TV network
That's no excuse for the lack in quality. Guy makes nearly $1K AUD - his paying fans (myself included) deserved something better.
@MilesL.auto-train4013 I actually saw Fallout (from a leak) and tbh, you're overreacting.
@@TheTrainTheoristOfficial Can safely say I'm not, but I don't care enough to respond with any reason to give.
Make a response video debunking what I say; I don't care. It is what it is, but season 5 sucked.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 dude stop treating him like he's this grand company network with a bunch of writers he is a CZcamsr at the end of the he's not a gaming company and he's not a TV network over another CZcamsr like Logan Paul so why would Victor be any different
Everything in this season just felt super rushed! The ending felt like it was thrown together at the very last minute
I actually like all Episodes the same, no matter what happens, I'm actually thinking I'm The only one that dies 😢
Honestly I agree with your points
The random audio montages with repeated shots can be a bit tedious at times, especially when the characters shown aren't saying anything. Scenes like that should help fill in some of the blanks so we can get a full sort of timeline and begin actually asking questions about whats going on.
the dialogue and some scenes seem a bit too fast paced and rushed.
Especially with Munitions & Fallout, I honestly would've liked a more drawn out and slower pace, and a brief silence with no audio, no royalty free music, just a solid frame so we can take in the impact of whats happened.
And as much as I love the 2012 models, I do kind of wish Victor would use a more up to date model, some of the closeup shots can just look a little jagged, especially when you can see the polygons around the engines faces.
The steam to diesel conversion doesn't make any sense, if you want to make a steam engine more environmentally sustainable, if you want a more Eco-friendly motive of power, there's oil burning engines, there are some real life examples of Steam engines being powered by oil, wood. Anything like that.
As for Victor killing off so many characters, I don't really understand that part, My theory is that he's killing off characters he can't properly figure out how to write. Eg: Peter, Geoffrey, Thomas.
Mr. Zorro I can understand his death, Rob's brother killing Zorro does make sense, He see's him as the conduit of his problems.
Season 5 to me, feels like it was written out of a desperate need to continue the series. I really hope Victor is able to fix some of these flaws and flush out a more slower pace, while of course keeping some of the action and what not.
One thing I will say is you can keep the 'silent dialogue montage' actually CAN work, and I'm all for it because "Show; Don't Tell." But the problem is the times when we DO get dialogue shots, they're few and far between, and there's not enough of them to really get any idea for emotion from anyone. You still have to at least _tell_ some things.
The final epsiode can best be described as subversive bullshit.
honestly you made a valid argument in this video.
no hate towards victor or what he does but it just kinda disappointed me, and confused me with the short episodes.
this gives me less hope for next season.
I can excuse the train cancer, but I draw the line at steam-to-diesel conversion.
So can I, especially because it's using a REAL phenomenon as inspiration, with a twist.
I agree with most of what was said here. The pacing was too fast in general and there seemed to brush over things that were focused on in the past. Like how Thomas and Mickey died and hardly a word was said about it. Something Victor has done super well in the past is to show what the character is feeling through their decisions and how they behaved on screen as opposed to simply saying it. I think it was the little moments that happened with only one character was around that really made the series what it was. I missed that a lot in season 5. I think that is my biggest issue with it. Overall I did enjoy Season 5, but it left me with a feeling of missing something. The same feeling I get when I miss an episode or two of something, except with this i felt like a had missed 3/4 of what happened. It was like someone gave me a bulleted list of Stories of War's main points and threw in some filler details.
I did like the Barry saga. It made sense. Some parts were retained, so Barry was the same engine personality wise. As historically speaking, steam engines were converted, the story felt like a fantastic addition to the timeline.
It was _something,_ alright...
Also, gonna have to vigoursly disagree with you on the SDC. I go more in-depth about it in Part 2.
Just watched pt. 2 and I will say you make a much stronger case there. I couldn't quite see what you were getting at here because I don't have the background knowledge. The information presented in pt. 2 made my claim all but irrelevant and I can't argue your points there because with the new information, I came to the same conclusion. I appreciate the historicity of Victor's series and have been a supporter of his because of that. I really hope he does do somewhat of a rewrite, even though it may come off poorly. He has made minor changes to episodes in the past (Season 1) and I really hope he can continue his success. Not an easy task.@@MilesL.auto-train4013
I think I echo similar criticisms about Season 5 but I have to disagree about the steam-diesel conversion part. Though that idea isn't common in Thomas fandom stories, I can think of a couple outside of the Stories of Sodor that incorporated nearly-identical concepts (most notably Tobias and the Half-Pariah). I also think its interesting because while most steam engines in the real world were preserved as such, you see a modern phenomenon of having diesels take the appearance of steam engines (i.e. the locomotives on the Wildlife Express Train at Disney World) so it isn't as farfetched as it might seem. That said, I concede that the way steam-diesel conversion is done in Sodor does raise the obvious point as to how this would affect the preservation movement and in real life with BR. I'll definitely watch your in-depth video tho.
I thought season 5 was ok, but nowhere near as good as Season 4 or the SCPs of Sodor. Oh well, I have faith that Vic will come back after this.
He needs to stop focusing on the shorts and actually writing the seasons. If the April Fools S6E1 was any indication, it seems he might come back onto his game, but...
I wish victor could remake fallout as the one we have is so saddened and angered
Yeah, he could have had the steam to diesel conversation be what saves Thomas giving it an actual purpose in his universe.
Over react to much on this season? Yes this season had issues. Mainly in runtime. Now look I don’t know what happened with this behind the scenes of this series. And besides this one guy doing the series. But that’s just what I see.
I don't know what you're talking about, but I'd hardly call thisd an overreaction, given a majority of people agree with the criyticisms presented. Even Tanzig himself, pinned comment.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 to me it came off that way. And I did see the pinned comment. I am sorry if that came off as rude or disrespectful.
since when did people start treating stories of sodor with respect????💀
Please refer to the beginning monologue at the beginning of the video.
Steam-diesel conversions did occur, it just wasn’t rolled out on major railroads because there was no need. In the world where you cannot kill a non faceless loco, it makes more sense to roll that tech out.
But not on the magnitude Victor presented. This was discussed more in-depth on other comment chains by stephenhawley113.
Me and my friend Trainlover 16 still think Thomas is alive in Stories of Sodor, the person who said he was dead lied and as he’s at Barry, he could wake up alive because of the green water they gave him and find himself at Barry.
I know I'm late to the party, I've never really liked Victor Tanzig to begin with frankly, from the "Haha funnie" sexualization of Percy in his shorts series, as well as that weird pregnancy thing. I feel like Victors trying way to hard to "Humanize" the characters, such as giving them the ability to get married. I feel like if he focused more on the human side of Thomas The Tank Engine (As in the human characters) the series would be a MILLION times better.
Based on his tone of voice in Munitions and just how rushed this season is, I think even Victor knows just how bad this season is but he rushed it out anyway because he wanted to rush out content. His fans will eat up anything he gives them and he knows this. He's making 913.9 Aussie dollars a month. I think that along with just how rushed this season is really shows Victor's biggest problem. He think he's become too big to fail. He thinks that whatever he puts out will be accepted by the fans and his bank account will just grow more and more. And the saddest part is, that's essentially the truth! He constantly ignores criticism, he constantly ignores the ways in which his content could be seen as harmful and offensive, because money, money, money! Victor was once someone I respected and aspired to be like in my writing ability. But now he's become a pathetic parody of himself, desperately stirring up more and more drama just for more relevance and to inflate his already enlarged ego.
You do realize he probably has a lot of stress under him right? He doesn’t want to feed so fast, but his fans just can’t wait, and he just had too much to handle. He’s a very good person, and he really has a lot on him. How about you have very angry fans that need more content from you, while also running a CZcams channel, and having a personal life. Sorry that Victor is apparently so big and bad that even though we see what he’s going through, you can’t pull your head out of your ass to see it.
@@spottotea That doesn't excuse the lack of quality. I don't agree with the whole ego part based on the evidence I've seen so far, but that still doesn't excuse the lack in quality. He's not on a set schedule or under a strict contract, it takes him over a year to make each season. So really, there's no excuse.
Okay first off, he's had over a year and a half to plan out his story. Sure dealing with angry fans is insufferable at times, but he's been doing this for years. Surely he would've gotten a hang of things. Secondly, if he's such a good person, why does he continuously make such offensive content and completely ignore everyone when they tell him why it's offensive? Third, how far up your ass is your head that you can't see all these problems. Instead of going around acting like a mindless servant of Victor maybe you should reevaluate your critical thinking skills and reevaluate his content. Its fans like you who keep on feeding him this toxic positivity that are keeping him in the mindset that he shouldn't change. He is an adult and it is overall his choice where his content goes, but you and fans like you are not helping him. You're only hurting his writing ability in the long run.
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 exactly!
s5 started out mid and got worse 😔
5:45 I’ve counted a few retcons throughout the series but it’s very minor phrases and events and sayings that doesn’t really chance the story all that much
In defense of SDC, there was a real life example of a Steam engine in Fiji being converted to a diesel during Preservation.
Yes, but BR did tests that proved that it was unfeasible for a long-term goal. Or mainline for that matter.
8:20 if I’m not mistaken real engienes have been changed to run on diesel fuel
You are mistaken.
There were _only a small handful_ or real steam-to-diesel conversions, but it was found uneconomically viable and never repeated. and that was in the 1920s. Locomotives were converted from coal to oil burning, but they were still STEAM engines. Not DIESEL engines. HUGE difference.
I have to agree with everything you said, I also would like to add that Victor tanzig always does his best to make his stories more interesting
Okay I will admit I was pretty unsatisfied with the last episode. Like I did enjoy it but it didn’t give me any good closure if that makes sense
I meant to write this in my original comment: I still love the classic series of TTTE but when I watch it now it’s so short. I know the Unlucky Tug said it’s short and enough time for kids to be entertained (which is true) but when I watch series (like Victor Tanzig’s) when I’m a little older, I would like the runtime to be a little bit longer because the story is that entertaining
I'm losing interest in the series already, it's just lazy subpar writing at this point.
Didn't you type a much longer comment...?
Not me. I swear to god. 🤣
@@azuma892 Sorry, confused you for someone else. I didn't expect this to blow up as much as it did... Compared to my normal content, lol. Losing track of everyone.
One thing I've noticed is that the episodes are way shorter
I’m enjoying this season so far, I do agree the pacing can be too quick in some scenes like the first scene in Munitions for example, it sounds like Victor is catching his breath real quick between speaking the dialogue of Edward and Benson. Also I wish the length was longer in some episodes (specifically Competition, Experiment and Munitions) because there could’ve been more scenes that would’ve been fantastic! For example: Edward meeting Barry for the first time with ACTUAL dialogue (because I believe they will get married in the future), Emily’s reaction after Henry survived his crash in “Rescued” (bothered me a a little at first because no dialogue but it’s a minor gripe) Rescued was a great episode. Also “Vandalism” was too, I wish there was maybe 1 or 2 scenes with Geoffrey before he leaves the sheds to take the kipper and crashes/dies. It would’ve been nice to see a little bit of that.
Also I believe he changed Barry’s face because he had Colin’s face pack originally. I didn’t even notice he was a mix of Duck and Oliver’s face until you said it in the video 😂😂
I'm sorry, Edward and Barry will _what_ now?
@@MilesL.auto-train4013 didn’t mean to catch you off guard, I noticed in one of Victor’s shorts they talk about relationships (not the episode) and you can see Edward and Barry next to each other, also in the SCP’s of Sodor episodes, Edward and Barry are next to each other in the shed. And Edward could be gay because in “Return” he said his type wasn’t female. I’ve heard this from a few people that it could be likely true but not certain, it seems like it could be but who knows? I should’ve worded that better, it may not happen and if it doesn’t then that’s ok. Not every character needs to be in a relationship
And I agree with you on his Sodor shorts, they went a bit crazy last year. It seems calmer and not as wild this year, at least to me
We all entitled to our opinions, but please before shooting down people's choice of providing a fan series and creative freedom think let's just be happy we have a lovely series that has provided a alot of joy and interest to many so if its not to your standards,go make better.
That is a TERRIBLE argument to make.
Yeah just cuz someone made something good doesn't mean they're incapable of making something bad or mid like Pixar DreamWorks they've made plenty of great movies but they've also made plenty of Duds, and all you can do is just hope the next ones are better.
The thing that bothers me is that he killed off Thomas
Victor Tanzig is the Dave Filoni of the Thomas fandom. I don’t mean that as a compliment.
You'll have to run me up to speed on that, I've given up trying to follow Star Wars news for a while.
Easily the most disappointing season