Debunking the SawStop Myth
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
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READ BEFORE COMMENTING: Regarding comments about your body not "grounding" because you have shoes on... "Grounding" is not a literal term. Your car is full of parts that must be "grounded", yet the rubber tires keep it off the literal ground. Just as the mass of the engine block and frame serve to "ground" the car, here I mean your body is large enough to dissipate enough of the low voltage charge on the blade and trigger the system. Yes, the term is not TECHNICALLY correct, but it is commonly used that way.
I find it funny that a youtube channel name *Stumpy Nubs* is dispelling myths about *SawStop®.*
:
Actually it is technically correct.
Bear in mind it is alternate current, not direct current we are dealing with. And for alternate current, small gaps inbetween two conductive parts is not an absolute barrier. Consider your body and the ground as two sides of a capacitor. Not the best performing nor the most efficient one but still... yeah technically a capacitor. Two conductive parts with a - more or less tiny - gap inbetween.
And capacitor reacts to AC like... yes you guessed it, a conductor.
Due to the fact that this "capacitor" made of body, thick rubber sole and shop floor is a pretty lousy capacitor, the conductivness and the recurring current is rather low, but... there IS a current, and it is sufficient to trigger the sawstop. It's the same principle that makes your phase tester work. You don't have to put off your shoes to make the bulb glow.
This thing becomes more interesting, when your body is floating in midair. I'm curious to know, if the additional effect you described is sufficient to trigger the switch (every mass is capable of collecting a certain amount of current, the more mass, the more current).
Kleinalrik lol really? as a reply to *this* comment? 😂🤦♂️
+Kleinalrik
There is greater mass on Sundays.
:
Critical Look wanna hear a pun about paper?
never mind... it's tearable.
I have a friend that has a hot dog cutting business and he said SawStops are worthless.
This should have more "thumbs" up. This made me laugh out loud
obviously fake. sawstops are useful, even when cutting hot dogs. they keep your hands safe.
Oh, okay it took me a minute...
Jesus that made me laugh so hard
@@joew694 all the thumbs have been cut off
Years ago my dad was considering getting one. Mom didn't even bat an eye at the price and told him to order it.
One day he lost his balance and put a hand into the blade. Worth every penny.
Wow!
Agree with your mum 100%
That's impressive. How's the hand? Slight scratch?
@@pierrecurie about a 1/4" to 1/2" cut. Dad had a condition where even that was a concern, without the Stopsaw it would have been catastrophic.
@@roberteltze4850 good to hear, hope he had/has a swift recovery
@@roberteltze4850 was the damage basically that he fell into a stationary rigid blade? Like as if the machine was turned off? If so I can imagine a completely different story otherwise.
I've always said that a SawStop Table Saw might cost you an arm and a leg, but at least they won't cost you a finger or a thumb.
Dang. They should pay you a royalty and use that in their marketing ;)
This is hilarious
Well played
Only pore people complain about the price of things.
@@1212goose tell that to the founder of Ikea
Even if you had to replace the entire tablesaw, still cheaper than replacing a finger
Only if you live in USA
@@glitchysoup6322 even outside of the USA
@@trinoply well yeah if you're replacing it. Not if you were to reattach it though.
Or......you could use the table saw properly
@@quoththeraven3985 Accidents happen.
Having my pinky reattached was 15k. My digit is basically useless. If I had even the slightest chance to avoid losing my fingers again I go for a sawstop. And yes I have 2 saws and support the company. Get a sawstop
I was injured on a delta uni saw.
My Grizzly hasn't bitten me... yet... but I'm very respectful of it ( knock on wood)
and sorry to hear about yer finger
but, if I had your money and companies clammering to give me tools and shit to try I would burn mine and get a saw stop.
rayman954 - I'm sorry, but that's just a silly comment. It's not as if Jimmy was just walking down the street and SawStop threw a saw at him. He had to work for years to build a business that offered real value to his audience and to the tool companies. That took WAY more than the $3000 it would cost you to get one... You may envy folks who get free tools and think they are just lucky. But I can tell you, I worked by backside off to EARN the right to have "companies clamoring to give me tools," and I can tell you that folks like us decline a lot of tools too because NOTHING IS FREE!
It happened in my wood-shop class in 2013, a kid got a small cut and it saved his finger. It was loud and startling but i am glad he got to keep his finger. The teacher changed the brake/blade and gave him a small band-aid and the class resumed like normal!
That kid likely needed a change of shorts too!
This is the reality of a properly maintained and equipped SawStop, happening hundreds of times a day. IMO all the folks that badmouth SawStop are simply trying to justify their position for having not purchased one, either because they failed to research it or were unwilling to spend the money for it. Now they have to justify a poor decision to protect their fragile egos.
@@gregsnewyt I'm sure that they are all thinking "But, I'm careful so it will never happen to ME!" or "If you are stupid enough to let your finger go anywhere near the blade, you deserve to get cut, I'm not stupid so I'm safe"
Same, had another student in my class who activated the saw stop 3 times. One of which they were reaching to grab some wood that got caught between the rain and blade and brought their hand down onto the blade, probably would have lost her whole hand if not for the saw stop
@@frogsshadow4189 What shop class isn't using a blade cover?
There a MAJOR problem with SawStop that no one wants to talk about.
With less people loosing fingers on the job we will soon have a huge shortage of Shop Teachers.
No. We'll still have shop teachers. They just wont have first world experience with creating a nub. They wont be able to hold up their 3 1/2 fingers and say "DON'T let this happen to you!!!"
@@Fixmy59bug They wont be able to hold up their 3 1/2 fingers and say "DON'T let this happen to you!!!"
but that is a prerequisite for getting the job luckily we have band saws lol
like we even have shop class anymore
Omg, facts. My shop teacher was missing part of a finger and it's was the best teaching aid for the safety portion. He'd wave that finger in your face every time you got caught doing anything dumb
"Trusting your fingers to a computer in a dusty workshop is a bad idea."
Yeah, that's why you don't trust your fingers to a computer. You must engage your brain. The safety device isn't there so that you can operate your saw without regard for your own safety.
Honestly couldn't agree more. Sawstop isn't the first line of defense, it's the last. Crap happens, and one more barrier between you and a trip to the hospital is welcomed, but don't rely on those machines for safety. It's the same thing with cars. More safety features, more accidents.
Youre right. Human nature in the paradox of safety however is omnipresent. If something is made more safe, some idiots will take it to more extremes "cause its safe" xD
you mean me and the boys can't get drunk and cut wood on a sawstop? Lame
@@genseven4616 I mean, I'm not going to tell you what *not* to do.
Sure you shouldn't put your hand to the blade because "it's safe". Being careful is a damn good idea whether you have a safety net or not.
Maybe you'll be more careful if you know the safety net isn't there, but that doesn't outweigh the value of having a safety net.
The net is useful because no matter how good you are, no matter how careful, _the possibility for human error can never be eliminated_.
As well, you can do tens of thousands of cuts, it only takes one mistake.
As far as idiots who will take it to more extremes "cause its safe" goes:
Reckless fools are reckless fools, they're probably going to be reckless fools whether they have a Sawstop or not, that's how I see it.
not gonna lie whenever i hear someone say sawstop's price is too much i laugh a bit considering the cost of medical service here in the states.
Or the fact that no matter where you are getting a finger reattached is a rather grousome ordeal so honestly you're paying for not having to deal with a bad injury.
saw a guy at a shop once with his toe attacked to where his thumb would be. no thanks famalam
@@NataliesChatalie putting your finger back on after a saw accident is never fun, and it is never the same
The father of a friend of mine got 4 of his fingers torn out of his hand with a saw, he had them reatached but they're fucked up for life. Who cares about the cost of the bill, having a working hand is much more important.
@@SgtRyansPrivates Look, an idiot that believes what he reads online. Don't bother looking up Canada's growing budget shortage in healthcare...
Will keep this short. I'm a professional cabinet maker, and pay close attention to my safety. Even with thousands of hours in front of a saw, mistakes happen....and I still have my left thumb....thanks to sawstop.
I'm missing a chunk of the left thumb- wish I had been using a Sawstop!!!!!
I work for one of the top custom woodworking companies in the world and ALL of our table saws are sawstops
It's called complacency and it happens to everyone once in a while most of the time we get lucky sometimes we have an accident
My dad had been cutting and using a table saw for 30 years. When he was 57 he cut off the top of a digit. Shit happens, definitely better to have a stop. Me personally nothing yet but I use a pusher whenever close to blade
I'm just a kid and y'all made me scared shit of a saw
Too expensive?! We just went over how false activation is exceedingly rare, so..... is the argument your finger isn't worth $200??
That's exactly what I was wondering as well.
Unfortunately, you can't just pay $200 to add this safety feature to _any_ saw, and there are several things that other saws do better. It's not just a matter of cost, it's the fact that it limits your choice.
Also, personally I wasn't a big fan of the way SawStop deals with competition. Bosch developed a saw that did basically the same thing (finger detection and blade retraction), but using a different system that doesn't destroy the blade, and can be reset in less than a minute. Instead of licensing and adopting the non-destructive system (or just competing and letting consumers choose), SawStop used one of their (very generic) patents to prevent import of those saws into the USA.
*important edit: Bosch Reaxx may be cheating the market with a deliberately inferior product. More details below.*
@@RFC-3514 It sounds like you're not telling the whole story. If the competing saw's safety mechanism didn't break and the blade wasn't damaged, then that means it took much longer for the blade to stop turning. Due to quantum mechanics, there's a specific detection range for a mechanism of the same type, regardless of its design. Therefore, the competing saw is necessarily more dangerous to use. It's not just a trivial detail you should conveniently leave out like that.
Now I'm not saying the other saw doesn't have merit, and I'm not saying there weren't any shady business practices afoot. That I don't know the answer to. Personally I'm a cheapster and quite safe with my fingers, so I would almost certainly opt for the competing brand you mentioned. But I also don't cut much wood so what do I know.
@@TheReaverOfDarkness - The "detection range" is effectively the same in both cases (i.e., contact).
And while "the whole story" would take years to tell, apparently I can tell you one important detail of the story which you are unaware of:
_Neither the SawStop nor the Bosch model rely on making the blade _*_stop turning._*_ They both work by instantly _*_lowering_*_ the blade below the surface of the table._
SawStop does this by pushing an aluminium block into the blade (which uses the blade's own momentum to push it downwards before it stops turning, but damages the blade in the process), while Bosch shoots the blade assembly down using compressed air charges (and then lets it spin down when it's safely below the table).
I do not own either model, nor have I timed them. Their demonstrations were identical: pushing sausages at high speed into the blade. The resulting scratches were also identical.
I don't know the exact composition of each sausage, or whether they were kosher / halal / vegan. I'm sure that can make a difference, too.
@@RFC-3514 I checked, the Bosch Reaxx table saw is damn quick, but it's still slower than Saw Stop. Here's a video of a sausage test being done with the saw. He didn't zoom in on the sausage, but said there was a barely visible nick and that happened going much slower than normal working speed. At that speed and with a Saw Stop, there would have been no nick at all, because the actual detection range is slightly greater than touch range.
czcams.com/video/3pNbkuZWt9o/video.html
I had just purchased and assembled a new table saw when my wife said "You know, you have more money than fingers. Why don't you take that back and get the SawStop you were eyeing". Having just spend many hours setting up the saw I sucked up my frustration and took the other saw back and bought my SawStop. I have never fired off the break but then again, I have never fired off the air bags in my car either.
Hi James,
I have had my SawStop fire twice. The first time was due to stupidity which was caused by an ill adjusted aluminum mitre fence. The second was the OMG I am glad it worked one. I normally keep my push stick on the right side of my fence as I am right handed. For some reason I had left it on the left side of the saw. I was making a rip cut through a piece of maple and when I reached across to pick up the push stick, the brake fired and I was puzzled as to why until I looked at my right palm which had a very shallow scratch. I never even felt it but some how when I changed hands on the workpiece and reached to the right, my palm came in contact with the top of the blade. In both cases all I needed to replace was the brake as both blades were send back to Forrest City for inspection and were given a sharpening and a clean bill of health. I was sure to tell them why the blades were being sent to them. SawStops are the finest machine on the market in value for dollars particularly as others has said, compared to a trip to the emergency room.
My only SawStop activation was due to my aluminum miter fence and it has a tiny nick. I keep my damaged sawblade and brake hanging by my saw, a great reminder of why I bought it. A great conversation piece too.
Guess what same here setting the aluminum fence too close to the blade. I also like the riving knife. I've never had a kick back since. Dust collection is lot better too. My previous was a 1990's vintage Jet Cabinet. My dad and brother in law both cut themselves on the table saw in their 60's both had serious surgery to repair the damage.
Tell me more about sending the blades back to the factory because this video is the first I've heard of it. How much does it cost? How many times can it be done? How long does it take? Is it like a brand new blade?
MrNateSPF
Hi Nate, I use Forrest Blades other than the SawStop blade that came with the saw. I just packed them up and sent them back to Forrest and with a note explaining what happened. They are pretty much hand tensioned and trued to a factory run out spec of 0.001”. They checked them out, sharpened and sent them back. As they are premium blades from an awesome company I would respect their opinion if they said they were trashed but both times they came back as if they were new. It cost me $63.00 CAD, plus shipping and turn around was a little over two weeks. I do not know how many times they can be resharpened.
@@donaldmackay6749 Thanks for the info.
Personally, a SawStop could break my entire table saw and prevent one of my digits from being severed and I wouldn't budge an inch on price. My fingers > damage to a tool.
This! You can always replace a tool. You can't replace a chopped off finger. Also, replacing the blade and brake will be a lot cheaper than paying for the health service bills in the US if you lose a finger.
You basically save money AND your finger. I have no idea why people wouldn't want what's basically insurance.
@@Jeremy-se1kp People don't like handouts. Simple as that.
Hands are the best tool we have
Well, you better use handheld tools, instead of electric tools, for everything single project you do.
What I say when anyone actually argues against sawstop:
Just say you can’t afford it bro
That's what I think when I read someone trashing electric cars/trucks. If you can't afford one don't get it.
Also with regards to false-activations, I'd much rather have a safety system that's itchin' to go than one that might get performance shy when it matters.
I know, right. lmfao
I don't understand the arguments against SawStop, even ignoring their validity problems.
It might malfunction and not trigger: A normal saw would never trigger. I'll take one that has a chance of not triggering any day.
It might malfunction and trigger needlessly: Unless that happens all the time, I feel like this is a small price to pay.
You can't cut wood with nails with it: You shouldn't cut wood with nails in the first place. Get a metal detector and remove them.
You can't cut pressure treated wood: Alright, that one I can understand. You can turn off the system, though, so just do that.
It's very expensive when it triggers: It doesn't cost a finger, though and the hospital bills would be far greater.
So... even assuming all those arguments are actually true, they still don't make much sense.
The fact is, the vast majority of saws (and saw users) go through their entire existence without cutting any fingers. So, depending on how much it costs, how it compares with other saws in terms of features and cutting performance, and how often it triggers incorrectly, it might not make financial sense, statistically speaking.
Similar arguments can be used for filling cars with 50 separate airbags or buying lead-shielded, oil-submerged PCs with ECC memory and fully redundant components. And people who have been in car crashes (or lost a lot of money due to a stray cosmic ray flipping a bit in their server's RAM) might tell you those safety features are essential, but the fact is they have a cost (not just a financial cost; they can make those things less versatile, slower, physically bigger, etc.) and will only benefit a very small percentage of users in a very small percentage of situations.
If I could have (for example) an Erika 85 _with_ a SawStop-style safety mechanism, I might be willing to pay a bit extra. But I'm not going to give up the pull functionality in exchange for the SawStop brake, because that would force me to do some cuts in a totally different (and less safe) way.
Also, a lot of table saw accidents are caused not by people touching the blade with their hands, but rather by jams / kickback shooting boards into people's bodies, and SawStop's "finger detection" doesn't do anything to prevent that. In fact, it might give some people a false sense of security (the same way that airbags led to a lot of people not using seatbelts, because they thought the airbag would magically save them in _every_ situation).
I would say that, overall, "kickback killer" systems (like the one recently shown by Destin on the Smarter Every Day channel) will probably prevent more accidents than the SawStop brake (which should only come into play in cases of serious user error).
I just saw an article saying how bad Tesla's autopilot was because you can pain false road lines and trick it... Well shit the same would trick a lot of humans too!
Kinder eggs were banned because food safety law says that no edible item can completely hide, in its interior, a non-edible item. Which is a perfectly reasonable and sane law (unlike many others, both in the USA and elsewhere). And the fact is Kinder could easily bypass the ban by making a single hole in the egg, or by keeping the two halves of the egg separate (which is basically what they did, BTW; they sell "Kinder Joy" in the USA, which are chocolate eggs with a toy, but in two separate halves). Also, "noone" is a time of day; "no one" is two words.
@@RFC3514 I'm not saying there aren't any valid arguments against using a SawStop saw, but the ones featured in the video don't make any sense to me. Even if the claims are true, they still wouldn't be a huge problem.
I did allow some leeway for some of them, like the malfunctioning one. If it's too often, it might not make sense to use it. If it happens rarely, though...
@@LordBelakor The fact that Kinder eggs are banned is just a side-effect from a pretty reasonable law.
How about you take your racism elsewhere?
Manche Leute...
I had my career as a promising Bond villain cruelly cut short by a Sawstop saw.
Or, you mean, NOT "cut" short?
I imagine this would be a scene in an Austin Powers film of it were made today.
It touched James Bond's hot dog?
Minor suggestions: "The design takes advantage of the difference in conductance and capacitance, between wood and flesh" (Wikipedia). That change is capacitance. A tiny electric current will flow through the blade even without physical contact in essence "charging" your body with some static electricity and it can do this even through an insulator. You have to be very close to the blade of course. It is basically the same principle as a condenser microphone or electret microphone.
"An oscillator generates a 12-volt, 200-kilohertz (kHz) pulsed electrical signal, which is applied to a small plate on one side of the blade. The signal is transferred to the blade by capacitive coupling. A plate on the other side of the blade picks up the signal and sends it to a threshold detector. If a human contacts the blade, the signal will fall below the threshold. After signal loss for 25 micro seconds (µs), the detector will fire."
Again, it doesn't even require physical contact. Just before physical contact your body will "bleed" enough of that signal to be detected, even through a glove. Exactly how close you have to be depends on various factors. If you are leaning on the table the metal of the table increases your capacitance and will make the system somewhat more sensitive. That's my guess, but I'm a radio engineer and work with this sort of thing fairly regularly.
Yeah, no grounding is required. But it's odd that you went with microphones as examples, and not the much more ubiquitous use of capacitive based touch detection used in smart phones.
@@MassDefibrillator Could that explain why I could swear sometime I did not actually touch the screen, but still opened the app I was aiming for? I always wondered how touch-screens can do that
@@Albatorwow yeah, exactly.
Thank you for sharing the info sir,,,I always wondered the tech behind such a magical device..kinda gets my mind thinking about just how crazy and important electrical signals are in the brain and body….they say your brain produces enough juice to power an incandescent light bulb a lil bit?
They must have put a tonne of work into getting the balance just right.
I own 2 SawStops , one 7 years and the other 3 years. I had one activate cutting a wet cedar 2x4. I usually cut any damp wood on bypass but completely forgot this time as I rarely cut anything besides cabinet materials. I also had a cartridge activate in the middle of a blade change. Power was off and blade was out of the saw when it tripped. Odd, but SawStop replaced it at no charge after inspection. Customer service and tech support is top notch. Peace of mind is priceless. Have all my fingers with 45 years of everyday use and plan on keeping it that way.
I've been around saws my entire life, first time I ran one I was 8 years old. You don't NEED a stop saw, but you really should get one, I've had mine for a fee years and just 3 days ago I was ripping a board and i sneezed because of some amazing allergies, next thing I know I yank my hands back because I felt my right hand hit the blade, and hear that big clunk and my blade is gone, and machine isn't running. I was pretty puzzled at what had happened, so I start looking over myself to see if it left a mark and sure enough i found the smallest little droplet of blood on bottom of my wrist. All its takes is that one little moment that you think will be fine, and it isn't fine at all.
Holy shit nearly lost yourself a hand right there.
Dude is your pic a butthole
@@marshallblack2000 yeah it is I think I have seen this pic before on a meme comp on pronhub
A chilling read.
Note to myself: Table-saw usage strictly forbidden in case of allergy symptoms.
Another blood ice pack is having someone or something surprise you unexpectedly, when your concentrating on using a noisy power tool.
@@marshallblack2000 lmfao no it's not a butthole. It's my couch.
I'm a retired Carpenter this seems like a wonderful invention and if you knew the amount of guys I knew from back in the days that lost fingers you'd have one!
When a video shows up in my recommendations by a guy called 'Stumpy Nubs' talking about a product that prevents fingers from being cut off, I felt inclined to watch. Nice video man
That's why I'm here too
The whole, "sometimes it dont work so we should not have it at all" argument is stupid as heck and those people deserve to lose their fingers.
Sometimes chemotherapy doesn't work, so maybe all cancer patients should just abandon all hope.
you know sometimes brakes don't work so why have them
@@ginvr I wanted to make exactly the same comment 🤣
Sometimes chutes don't open right, so why should I bother with one when I skydive?
Sometimes nuclear reactors don't work, so natural-gas power plants are better. :P
"Oh no my expensive blade could be ruined by the SawStop that makes it far too expensive to use" Excuse me what? That's far cheaper than losing fingers. This argument doesn't make sense in the first place.
I keep seeing people complaining that they can’t afford these things. My CNC was over 3k plus computer and training. Sawstop is less than that with no OSHA and workers comp hanging over your head. Shoot, you can even get insurance discounts for them. If you can’t find the money for these, then how are you staying in business?
Big shop, hundreds of workers, wide range of experience, we adopted sawstops and never switched back. Had 2 or 3 actuators fire off, never knew why, sent the blade and actuator to the company for a free replacement actuator. Had spare blades and actuators, reinstalled, restarted, production resumed in a matter of minutes. No injury, no cordoning off the area, no osha investigation, nobody got hurt. Consider the cost of an injury, and the lost production, nevermind the life altering experience of being young and losing a digit for life. Oh, and it's a good saw. If you are a one man shop, maybe not for you. If you can afford safety glasses, dust masks, and a range of PPE, and you have anyone else using your table saw unsupervised, it may be a more practical choice than your current experience is telling you. Full disclosure: My first car was a 1962 Rambler Classic, and it was typical for it's day, no seatbelts. I grew up when safety considerations were scorned, hockey players wore no headwear, and smoking was casually shown on tv. My generation was wrong about taking serious risk casually. Wear your seatbelt, drive defensively, wear earplugs, and all that stuff. Thanks.
All well said, Greg, thanks!
They absolutely make sense for professional shops,schools and any serious home gamer who can afford them. I just don't want the government to legislate that every saw has to have the system. After the patent is expired if the price comes way down I might be ok with that but not now.
@@1978garfield This is definitely one place where you can say, "Buy once, cry once," because the little extra money spent to buy a saw that can potentially save your finger/hand, let alone your life is definitely worth is.
Definitely wear ear protection!!!
I worked in more then a few wood shops and was a full time touring rock drummer for years and years.
My ears ring a lot. Not a constant but when it happens (like once/twice a day...for about 5 minutes), it’s freakin loud!
WEAR EAR PROTECTION!!!
I use the little sponge expanding plugs. Even a little balled up toilet paper will help A LOT if you have nothing else. Just don’t stick it in so far that you need your wife to get them out with tweezers :)
Be safe everyone!
@@enzprintco.8625 I can't stress the major importance of a little bit of PPE, not only now, but in the future. As we age, we naturally lose our hearing and eye sight. There isn't any reason to make that process come about even faster when we have more than 1kX equipment available to us than our Grand Father or even Father had.
Just don't fall in the trap and think that a pair of silicone in ear, earphones will stop the outside noise. Unless they are actually manufactured for this purpose, they will not work to stop hearing loss.
Thanks for this. I've used a SawStop in a shop environment for about six years and they did trip occasionally, usually from someone cutting metal or forcing something through the saw that wanted to bind. BTW, when you think the trip was a machine fault and not the result of cutting something that shouldn't be cut, you send the spent cartridge in and they analyze the data on the cartridge's chip and they have replaced them for free a few times.
I dont think enough people are really appreciating how amazing this technology actually is
It's an electrical engineering miracle.
Imagine a serial killer tryng to cut a person with his own table saw just to find out he has SawStop
Oh well, back to the hacksaw
Imagine the nerves
"Do it bitch"
Morbid sense of humor. Good, I'm not the only one. LMAO
That would actually make for an interesting commercial for them. Maybe on the dark side but nonetheless an interesting idea^^
I don't own a table saw at all. I just watch dudes on youtube who make stuff with them
Same here I'm gonna get 1 1 day lol just looking for a good used 1
@Jay Bee have you used it much? If so do you like it?
@Jay Bee nice they are going for close to that used I would much rather get a new 1 thanks for letting me know
Lmao same
Tickled me this
I had never heard of SawStop until now. With my retirement a couple of years out, it's now on my wish-list.
Me: Imma go to sleep now
CZcams Algorithm: Do you want to watch someone argue about saws?
Me: Aight
Yes, have a good sleep. I hope you don't have to take pain killers for phantom limb pain.
SawStops only work on a Sphere, so if you live on a flat earth, save your money.
😂
Not true. The earth is flat in my work shop and it works fine. BTW no hot dogs have beenon my saw. ;D
Best. Comment. Ever.
The Earth is *NOT* flat, dammit! _Or_ a sphere. It's a Pyramid....
Green Acre Workshop Harvey! Quit yur lyin. You know it works on a flat disc. But only when yur on the bottom side.
I had sawstop thats cartige went off by accident and i contacted sawstop and they replace the part for free 👍 they are awesome saw
Same thing happened to me.
Same
Jacob yo you commented today, sick
@@drchopstick9539 Hey, do you like fish sticks?
@@drchopstick9539 HA! Gottem!
I've been cutting my hotdogs for years with a table saws. Honestly, SawStop is the WORST for this.
Don't buy it if you want to even THINK about cutting meat.
Thanks for laugh
did you just copy the top comment from two years ago. am i calling you out on this a year later. yes and yes
I never even chopped anything with an axe let alone the damn table saw, but this was a great video, the dude is so calm and good at explaining!
The only 2 issues I've ever seen,in person, with SawStop saws:
1. A large carpentry company in the U.K. had 2. 1 was operating just fine. The other discharged 3 cartridges in quick succession. The issue was found to be with the sensor circuit being damaged in shipping and was tripping out under vibration.
2. A college on the coast had ran a SawStop for a year or so until one student was working on a project using old timbers. The combination of salination and moisture was enough to trigger the cartridge.
In summary... a hand is still more valuable than even 100 cartridges. Both of the above were "positive failures" where nobody got hurt.
The college is now able to allow 2nd year students to use the saw (not previously possible due to the risks involved) and the carpentry hasn't had a single, even minor, injury from the table saws; compared to at least 6 minor injuries a year and 3 amputation injuries in the previous 10 years. They only employ highly competent operators... but accidents happen.
ANYTHING that makes a machine safer is a good thing. I've seen too many guys lose their lives, limbs and livelihoods to think otherwise.
Personally, the only issue I have with SawStop, is the they should have simply sold the safety system to every saw manufacturer. Like the inventor of car safety belts, chainsaw protection trousers and gas/smoke detection systems. They'd have still made an absolute fortune as no manufacturer would want to be "the one without SawStop".... and they'd have protected every saw operator from a life changing/taking injury into the deal.
They would make a lot of if not more money selling it to all the manufacturers.
Instead of killing Bosch’s attempt, they shoulda just got some money from each one sold. I understand the importance of patents, and was surprised it got squashed when a mostly different form of brake was used.
I.e. Supposedly Milwaukee gets/got a cut of anyone who puts/put out a tool with a 18V or 20Vmax lithium battery because they patented the 18V lithium cell. Instead of making the competition be light years behind, Milwaukee gets a piece of the pie
Never used a SawStop, but it is my dream table saw for both home and at work. Having almost cut the tips of my fingers off (didn’t even know I had contacted the blade until I saw the tips of my gloves cut off) I can’t wait until I can get one
I concur. They should license the technology to every manufacturer AND work on developing retrofit kits for older saws. Almost every tool in my shop is a vintage Powermatic (my dad worked for them in the 60's) and, honestly, I love those tools. But if I could retrofit sawstop tech to my Powermatic cabinet saw, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
@@mikedarcangelis6631 Patents and making money shouldn't come before safety. Just like the seat belt inventor.
@PBMS123 I didn’t say it did. You could have also mentioned the polio vaccine while climbing on the high horse and assuming something was implied.
Just commenting that their business strategy is off
Actually the inventor of the SawStop technology did try selling the licensing to other saw manufacturers back in the early 2000's. Apparently he was close to a deal with Ryobi, but got stuck on a typographical error. Other manufacturers insisted in negotiations that they not be held responsible if one of their SawStop equipped saws failed and someone was injured due it. SawStop refused to agree due to the fact that they wouldn't be involved in the manufacturing process and therefore couldn't guarantee the work.
When all that failed, SawStop said F'U to all the other saw manufacturers and started making their own saws.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SawStop#History
James,
Great video regarding the myths vs. realities of saw stop. I bought one 2-1/2 years ago, as a retirement gift to myself. Took it home in September, deployed the brake in Late October. I and my left thumb are grateful for SawStop. A few months later I was looking for some info in the owner’s book. I saw a passage which stated that if I ever fire the brake, SawStop would send me a free replacement, in exchange for the fired brake assembly, sans the blade. I checked into it further, True to their word they sent the free cartridge assembly without question. Rare integrity for sure. 👍
"Sawstop is too expensive"
Yeah, because being potentially mutilated and permanently unable to work because of a saw incident is a bargain compared to a 60$ cartridge and a new blade
Most of these myths come from the belief that these things work through grounding or a short circuit. The fact is they work on capacitive coupling and induction like a voltage tester
I get what your saying, don't cut through car batteries. :)
I had two go off. One no clue what triggered it. Second was a finger and it did its job. It was worth it, and will not own anything else.
I don't get why so many people are against a blade that prevents fingers from getting lopped off. "Ohhh you don't need it, just push the wood with blocks, it's never happened to meeee" is this the carpentry world's version of anti-vax moms?
@@jesselindsey9760 id say anti mask because yes a mask isn't useful if you don't have any human contact but most people have some human contact
@@jesselindsey9760 I’m guessing people who have never had a worker’s compensation claim against them. Liability, OSHA investigation, your employee’s life changed forever, personal guilt. Oh no thank you! A Sawstop could save your finger, lifestyle, business, everything. Look at it that way and they are a bargain.
@@jesselindsey9760 I love the idea but I will never support a company that actively sues anybody trying to make safer saws. That would be like Mercedes or Volvo suing anyone for adding seat-belts on cars while trying to also mandate them
@@jesselindsey9760 I'm sure you could push the wood around with chopsticks, but IMO that's not worth the hassle.
My cabinet maker's shop has a 3HP SawStop and I, as a former finish carpenter in my 20s, have a key to it. Last year, I was using his SawStop to rip a piece of African burl that Cooks Woods had sealed in wax. About a third of the way through the piece (with my fingers FAR from the blade), the stop engaged and the blade disappeared into the body of the table. It startled the crap out of me because it was LOUD and instantaneous-VERY impressive-wherefore I'm a fan.
Nevertheless, after much deliberation--and in part due to Jim's review of it-I just ordered a 3HP Harvey Alpha table saw with the Shark S-12S overhead dust collection and the amazing Big Eye rip fence system. Jim's review of the Harvey COMPASS MG-36Pro miter gauge (which comes with the saw as standard equipment) was also a big influence on my decision, as I do segmented bowl turning with exotic hardwoods, where a 1/4-degree error, compounded over anything more than 16 segments (32 cuts), can result in a huge 8° gap during glue-up. All-in-all, I've come to believe that Harvey simply makes a qualitatively better table saw, with incredibly accurate components across the board, features that the average contractor or cabinet shop may not require, but which are a huge improvement over SawStop, Powermatic, Delta, etc. Finally, the other reason that I decided against spending the extra money on the safety of SawStop is a logical one, in that I use my 10" Makita compound power miter box, 14" 2HP lathe, Delta scroll saw, Laguna 1412 band saw, and dozens of dangerous handheld power tools every weekend-and NONE of them have a safety stop, yet I've never lost a digit to any of them in over 50 years of woodworking. I also know a dozen local 60-95 year-old craftsmen/guildsmen who, while they're impressed with the SawStop concept, still use the 100 year-old hand-me-down industrial beasts their grandfathers used as young men in the 1920s because, as they put it, "they just don't make 'em like that anymore...", and all of them (like their fathers and grandfathers before them) still have all of their fingers.
...In summary, I LOVE the concept, have even seen it work first-hand, but have chosen what for me is a superior all-around table saw elsewhere. Yes, I've chosen accuracy over safety, and will happily take responsibility for my own fingers-just like all those SawStop owners do with all their other shop tools. Thank you, Jim, for the most articulate CZcams woodworking site on the internet. You're always balanced, honest, and informative and you never disappoint. TB.
As someone who has never done any woodworking, nor do I have the desire to do so, I have no idea what I'm doing watching a video from 2 years ago debunking myths about a product that I will likely never have the need to use. Nonetheless, really good video. Concise, to the point, using actual evidence to back up your claims, and I've always been curious if the SawStop was actually any good or if it was just another seen-on-TV scam. If I was a woodworking guy, you'd probably be one of my favorite channels. I hope you've kept up the good work over the years for the people who regularly watch your content.
While SawStop has undoubtedly saved a lot of people from traumatic injuries the saw is in no way a substitute for safe work practices. So stay safe out there
I own a sawstop. I am still extremely respectful of the spinning blade.
They don't claim to be. Seat belts aren't a substitute for driving carefully. Fire extinguishers aren't a substitute for not smoking in bed.
Yes agreed best to keep genitals away from table saw
@@SoulDelSol
A Die Maker I used to work with was on the short side. He had a die section he was repairing that he had to do some hand grinding on. The area for that was several steel tables with screens, vices, air lines etc. He picked up the die section and swung it onto the table. Remember I said he saw short. Right on top of the sac
😖😖😖
It kinda is tho
I am a college woodworking instructor. I have four (4) Sawstop table saws in my classroom. In my experience, you are correct on all counts, albeit with added emphasis: I have seen people attempt to re-use a table saw blade after the brake fired without first having the blade inspected by the manufacturer or a qualified sharpening service; loose teeth can become projectiles, so don't skip the formal inspection.
For the record, the only time I have ever had a Sawstop brake cartridge expended in my classroom, over thousands of hours of use, with countless students, was once - when someone allowed the spinning blade to come in contact with an aluminum fence on a miter gauge. Once.
Before I had Sawstop in my classroom, we had mostly Delta Unisaws and Powermatic 66s; good saws. In my experience, an opinion shared by my peers, the quality of manufacture, cutting ability, accuracy, and related performance metrics have been better in all regards with Sawstops, which also stop the blade faster after the power is switched off than with our previous saws. People are at risk as long as the blade is spinning, whether under power or idling to a stop. Even when idling to a stop, a Sawstop's brake will still fire to protect any user whose body comes in contact with the blade.
Thanks for adding that it works while idling down. I was wondering about that because I had a dumb moment a few years ago and stuck my hand in the blade after I had shut off the saw. Lucky it was just a few stitches and a weird random misfiring nerve in my left thumb for a couple years after.
as a note I had one failure that only was obvious when I went to set up the saw and the blade didn't come up . I checked and the blade was setting on the aluminum block but the fusable link was open. I replaced the cartridge and sent the failed in. Saw Stop classified as a flesh sensing activation and sent me a replacement cartridge at no charge. ( no one admitted to touching the blade while it was spinning down.) They told me the blade is under protection until the rpm is nearly stopped. So if the blade is touched even when it is coasting to a stop after it is turned off sawstop is still monitoring the blade to prevent an injury.
Probably a very good thing to have in a classroom.
Looking back on it I'm very surprised they let us use the tools they did back in 2004 as 13 year olds. You had kids using router tables, table saws, and bandsaws effectively unsupervised.
byw I think kids back then payed more attention because we knew we could be killed or even worse. Lol Nowadays its just a haphazard “nothing should be able to hurt me or else” attitude. Pay attention, use common sense and respect the tools/machines you are using.
@@HondoTrailside: WT... (You said) "Sure we work wood a little differently than in the EU so we should have our own saw"> sure you do!! lol. jk.
A saw is pretty simple, motor, drive pulleys, belt, arbor, table, power switch... oh -DS who uses it.
What do European saws have that USA ones don't?? ie how to avoid scratching a scrotal sac?? - guards and shields get taken off ( you should know, US saws also get sold with those on from the factory), push sticks and auto feed devices are for sissies, real men lose fingers. lol..
BTW if you don't put your hand in -or on - it it won't cut you...
NB, the EU isn't a homogeneous place there is far more diversity from one side to the other than the USA..
I would rather pay $160 to replace a blade and cartridge than go through life missing a finger and i bet anyone would if faced with the choice afterwards.
I agree but then again it would be cool to be the guy with 4 fingers.
@@Rudy97 it depends which finger you lose, to be honest. I wouldn't trade either one of my thumbs for any amount of added popularity. Left pinky is fairly important for me, playing video games on PC, but that right pinky doesn't seem to be doing much... thinking emoji...
New subscriber. 45 years woodworking experience (by NO means a master). I VERY much appreciated your video. Well presented, no politics, goofy humor, overerly dramatic stunts; just solid info. Keep up the good work.
I hope you make this a series. So many myths that need debunking
Matthew Cremona I agree! Would be a great series!
If you ever decide to race, don't do it in a green car and never ever eat peanuts before doing so in any color car.
True story.
Hi Matt.
😉
Geno Merci especially the cops
The fastest car is a hire car. Doesn't matter about the colour 😂
@@PapiSmerf It is known!!
Hi James. I largely bought a Sawstop because I was always very wary of the really crappy job site saw that I used for the first part of my woodworking career and wanted an added measure of safety. When I upgraded to the Sawstop, I realized that not only is the safety feature a major selling point, but it’s also a REALLY well made saw. Can’t express this enough. It was expensive, to be sure, but I think it’s well worth the money.
I've had a saw stop for 10 years. I agree they are awesome saws, and I love mine. That being said, I've had it go off from cutting both wet wood and from cutting nails. Those are the only 2 times my saw has used the stop funtion. The wood was extremely wet and my friend was using the saw and didn't know that was a possibility. He should have used the override. As for the nails, I was reclaiming old barn timbers and there were multiple nails in the board. I'm pretty sure it made a connection between the blade and riving knife, which of course would be grounded. I've never needed it for an actual potential injury, but that's ok. I'm glad it's there.
also, wood conducts electricity, just a tad. good resistor but not perfect
@@mcfixer9503 Not really. it is the moisture in it that is conductive. And most wood has moisture content lower than typical humidity.
My dad bought me a saw stop last year after I had an accident with my delta jobsite saw. I have triggered the break twice: once when I wanted to trim a window blind and last week when I hit a piece of aluminum witht he blade. The first time I kept the brake/blade (my dad wanted to see what it looked like). Last week I was able to remove the brake from the blade, which was not damaged. Thanks for the video. It's nice to hear someone dispel the myths.
I commented on another video and shared why I had a saw stop and several people replied stating that it would be cheaper to avoid making stupid decisions. Hopefully they don't end up in the ER like I did.
At first glance, I thought he was standing in a gun store
No, it's just a plane [plain] shop.
Have you heard the story about the guy who didn't have a sawstop and cut all his fingers off? The hospital told him if he'd bought his fingers in they could've reattached them. He replied "I couldn't pick them up".....
I am just a small shop and its only me working there... I can't wait to be able to buy a SAWSTOP for the shop.
Hey Stumpy- cool video and I appreciate the tone and concepts. I run a college wood shop with three Sawstops between 13 and 10 years old. I love them, they have saved several students I know over ten years, most notably, a pianist making his piano bench parts, from a full dado stack. Late night, last minute mind fart that left him with two stitches and ptsd. Thank Gawd he wasn't left without his thumb. The inertia from the stack bent the arbor enough to make it wobble. Sawstop replaced the arbor assembly, I provided the labor to install. Since then we find there are certain nuances about each machine, as with any other device in anyone's shop. In that case, Sawstop now recommends "star style" dado stacks, since mass is reduced over dados with full blade chippers. Also, I have had several brakes go off mid-cut due to wet wood, and cedar, particularly thicker material) which shows different moisture content on the outside of the wood versus the interior (i.e. 8% on the outside, and 19-35% moisture in the middle after the cut has been made.) This might seem obvious, but pulling material off the outdoor rack at the lumber yard before acclimating the material does more than set off the break- it can spray moisture throughout your table saw and reek havoc on your blade and trunnion gears, not to mention in the case of a Sawstop, the sensors and electronics. My home shop I use a trusty old PM60, which is as smooth as a 1940 chevy. I love her, but would trade her in a hot second for a Sawstop (teacher's salaries being what they are in my neck of the woods, I use what I got). Lastly- the safest thing about the Sawstop- the ability to change the riving knife or blade guard, and blade in seconds. Using the right blade with a splitter has saved countless novices, and a whole lot more professionals around here.
I'm an organist (and want to eventually build my own practice instrument). Needing to protect my fingers is one of the biggest obstacles to me getting into woodworking. As demonstrated with your example, saw stops are an invaluable resource when it comes to protecting your fingers.
I've also seen more than enough mangled hand horror stories among fellow musicians to know it can happen in a heartbeat. Keep the applicable guards on the tools and take every precaution.
Every saw stop malfunction story I've heard started with "Dear Penthouse, I never believed it would happen to me."
This might be the best comment ever.
asking for a friend
Bro, you're old. Wasn't Penthouse printed on a Guttenberg press before there was electricity? I did hear one activated and the shrapnel paralysed Larry Flint, though.
I remember those letters. Most were hilarious and I think were works of fiction. There was some seriously weird stuff.
James, my friend’s, sister’s, boyfriend’s, cousin’s therapist said that her hairdresser’s second cousin heard that someone read a story on the inter webs that said saw stops are painted red and black because it hides the hotdog blood during the fake demos...just sayin’
This is true. I know because I know a hairdresser.
Ha ha ha awesome! It must be true ha ha!
You know what the TRUE testes? Whoops, typo. Test is? ... ;)
Do they work at 21 Flavors?
WigWagWorkshop YES! How’d you guess?
Thanks for your insight here; like you, I’ve heard some of the same arguments against SawStop. I’ve had mine for almost 3 years and have actually cut not only nails but an imbedded screw one time without causing the brake to activate. I’ve also cut treated lumber as well and I still have the original brake on my saw.
I am an ancient woodworker and I have owned two Unisaws and a Craftsman. I bought a saw stop several years ago and it is the best saw I have ever had, even if it never saves my finger. It has tripped twice, both times when I ran my miter gauge into the blade. It did not ruin my blades and I still use them.
Sawstop has never worked for me
As I’ve never worked with a sawstop
Actually I never used a saw
Why am I here
🤣
That is one question that no one can answer.
I've spent so much time watching videos about saw stop, yet I never owned nor want to own a table saw. Nor did I ever use one... youtube is wired... anyway, gonna keep watching my weekly sawstop video
That's an ex-saw-sential question,
Seems more metaphy-saw-cal to me... 🤔🧐
Where I work we had a good carpenter loose 1/2 his hand on a Unisaw. He never came back to work again.
They sold the 2 Unisaws and then bought sawstop saws as a replacement. All the carpenters love them.
The cost of that injury could have bought 20 saw stop saws. God bless our management for their action.
Thanks for your article. Safety first.
"Safety first." well... money first. Do you think they would have got saw stops if it didn't cost them anything when someone looses a digit?
There is no amount of money that can replace missing fingers.
This is one of the greatest inventions in carpentry since forever.
stawstops are awesome, but i will say that they do reattach fingers for alot of money
Woodshop teacher here. School has had a sawstop for 7 years in one shop and 3 years in another. We have tripped the blade about 5 times. Once by my own hand because I was too much of a hurry to put the guard down. Another was a student trying to move the scrap to make the next cut. the other 3 were darnits. One WAS pressure treated lumber. It was wet, didn't think about that and got 7'6" through an 8ft 2x4 ripping it down the middle. The final 2 were a nail and staple. I was told by the dealer that in the last 3-5 years they have re-engineered the cartridges. They were initially too sensitive and any metal flake would set them off. With that being said, it's been about 3-4 years since a cartridge trip. Also even with 3 out of 5 times the cartridge has tripped, it wouldn't have on a regular saw, still isn't' worth skimping because of the 2 times it did save a finger. No Regrets on having a sawstop
I have had the brake deploy several times when it should not have done so. Once I was ripping boards and on the third pass, half way through the board it deployed. I sent this in to saw stop and they queried the brake and think it was caused by a loose connection to the computer board, they sent me a replacement brake and detailed instructions on how to fix it. The other time I ripped boards and glued them up with tight bond. They sat for 48 hours and when I went to trim them up on the saw the brake deployed, they queried that one as well and decided the block was wet, I don't know how that could have been but that was their answer so they did not replace that blade. I agree that the blade is not destroyed I have had no problem reusing the blades. I really like the saw for it's accuracy and safety, I am willing to deal with an occasional unintended brake fire in exchange for the accuracy and safety of the saw. I have been using this saw for about 5 years
@@PapiSmerf in the summer I can pull 20 gallons of water a day out of the basement air with the 2 dehumidifiers I have... good to know that this will not be a cause of false triggers for me ! ... except for all the rust... * sigh*
Are you adjusting the brake correctly?
Are people saying a $100 disc and $60 cartridge are too expensive? Cheaper than a for profit medical system reattaching a digit 1/8” shorter
At least 1/8 shorter I have seen a full 1/2" gone
Wut
I have seen a full 1/2 inch of a finger removed
this guy accounts for kerf! what a professional!
Phft. A bottle of superglue only costs $2.99. That's way cheaper than $160. Oh, unless you want to involve, you know, doctors and stuff. Then, yeah, that gets expensive quick.
/s
I don’t know why I’m here I don’t even use saws but I subscribed and liked because this is quality content no matter how you slice it
I have activated my brake cartridge cutting pressure treated lumber. It was pretty wet but definitely dripping. No matter! I simply put another cartridge in and a new blade . I now cut pressure treated in bypass mode.
I love the performance of the saw and the sense of confidence it gives me. I’m a software engineer by day and it would cost me my livelihood if I lost my digits.
A "SawStop" saw once told me that I have weird looking legs. I know it was just being a jerk, but I haven't worn shorts since. I'm just sayin', hurt is hurt, even if it's just feelings.
...so the sawstop didn't work, it still saw your legs.
I don't trust these things. I found mine in bed with my wife when came home early from work.
Not as expensive as having to hitch hike while walking backwards with traffic.
BRAVO!!! Thanks James. I have one of the early SawStops. It’s an outstanding saw. Maybe this will help someone rethink their decision not to buy a SawStop.
Yes, I’ve triggered the brake twice. Both times were totally my fault by not making sure that the blade wouldn’t hit my Incra miter gauge. I agree with you on having the blade checked. That’s something I should do with the Forrest WW II blade but the teeth on my thin kerf 80 tooth blade were bent beyond repair.
Lately the biggest two mythsI keep seeing is that because of these triggers that A SawStop becomes too expensive or that users become complacent because they know they are safe. First of all the extra cash that I paid for my SawStop over a comparable saw at the time was chump change when compared to the medical bills from an accident. In that regard having the SawStop is like a cheap insurance policy. As for becoming complacent because of the safety feature I’ve noticed the opposite. I’m much more aware of table saw safety with my SawStop than I was with my previous table saw. After setting the brake off twice I’m even more careful when setting up and making a cut.
Over the years something that I have noticed is posts by table saw users who said that they originally thought their years of experience would protect them from table saw accidents and were now buying a SawStop after having an accident. Those are sad posts especially from some who stated that they were among those who had encouraged others not to buy one. I’m sure glad that I didn’t listen to those who advised me against buying my saw.
Hi. I bought my Sawstop Jobsite last year. The second time I used it, the brake activated after I switched on the saw before I even started to make a cut. I am still very happy to know that my surgeon’s hands are protected but have, of course, no explanation for what happened. Neither did the technician who replaced the cartridge. Love your vids. Many thanks. Les Berkowitz Johannesburg South Africa
I know in one case the Blacktail Studio guy tripped his sawstop while cutting foam for packing a table. Foam with a metal foil surface layer he was touching directly and admitted it was his own screw-up.
I've also seen a high-speed camera demo of it, and while regular blades should be reclaimable after a brake incident, Dado sets take a lot more raw force to stop and they'll snap the carbide teeth off as it comes to a halt.
I'm seriously looking at replacing my cheap Delta table saw with a Sawstop after removing the tip of my little finger last October. Thanks for clearing up the fallacies for us!
I also replaced my cheap Delta Table saw with a SawStop but only after seeing Mathias Wandel have an accident on his saw. I figured if someone of his caliber made a distraction mistake, I'm pretty sure it's very possible I could do the same, so I invested. Don't regret it one bit and if anything, I'm more cautious with the safety mechanism in place to avoid any potential purchases for blade replacements / brakes.
@@troymeredith521 yes I saw that vid and was thinking the same. I think it was routine that made him a bit careless on that but you are right: if it can happen to Matthias it can happen to anyone
@@troymeredith521 when did Mathias Wandel cut his hand. I missed that announcment.
@@troymeredith521, yes, I too would like to know in which video Mathias hurt himself. can you tell?
It's too expensive? Try an Emergency Room visit and a few hours with a hand surgeon!
Or a life with no fingers!
Or don't stick your hand in the blade. Your argument assumes that you WILL injure yourself and require surgery if you don't use a sawstop. That simply isn't true. Too bad James didn't put this on his list of myths.
@@btdga the number of videos he's done on proper technique to avoid putting your body on that blade suggests it's a common enough accident that you shouldn't risk it. But why bother having insurance, it's not like you'll ever get into an accident if you're careful.
@@btdga His argument doesn't assume that at all.
@@btdga I know a lot of woodworkers who have been using table saws for years and have all their fingers. I also know a lot who have cut off the tips or even all of their fingers. Hell, even Jimmy Diresta cut off his pinky, which they were able to sew back on. All it takes is a moment of distraction or something to go wrong with the saw you've never experienced before for disaster to happen. Most American's have never been in a car accident, yet we are still required to have car insurance, just in case. That's all the saw stop is, is a just in case. I don't have one, but if I ever can, I will. I'd rather have the insurance and not need it.
"I've never seen a hot dog need anything more than a band-aid." :D
Finding a hot dog that has a Band-Aid on it ... well, that's a different kind of video.
we had one of these at my high school, it got set off when someone tried to cut a sheet of tin on it, lol
The only people that truly debate this type of stuff(saw stop and everything else) are those who have never actually used said product.
Just ignore the simpletons.
TRUTH!
I used a Craftsman contractor saw for years, and much to my wife’s amazement I still have all ten of my fingers. Not long ago, she saw a demonstration video of the Sawstop, and suggested that the old saw should be replaced. I am not arguing with her....
I need to take my wife to more demos
Brilliant! Thanks for sharing!
There is a golden throne in Heaven for your lady!!
Bryan S My wife was very impressed by the hotdog demo video as well. But when I told her the price she laughed and said Please be careful. Hah
My wife simply insisted that it be replaced. It killed me to sell my Powermatic 66, but the SawStop PCs is actually better. No regrets.
Just ran across this today and thought I should comment. Upon retirement I acquired a SawStop 10 years ago as a hobby woodworker and have put a lot of wood through it in the last ten years. In the first couple of years, I did experience a couple of unexplained activations of the system. Didn’t know why then and still don’t but they both happened on initial startup of the saw before anything had touched the blade. Contacted the company and they had me send the units in and they replaced them. Because the blades were not even up to speed, no damage to the blades due to activation but it was a bit of a chore to extract the blades from the aluminum break. I have also had one occurrence of the unit activating while saving damage to my thumb. I’ve also cut wet pressure treated wood and most recently a framing nail. No activation on either of these, but I am going to have to send my Forester blade back to the factory for some repair work after the nail episode 😟. Bottom line is that I love the saw and consider it a great investment. And even if it did cost $200 to replace a blade and new break unit, that is not much compared to a visit to the ER.
GREAT video. I had bought a 10” Contractor version several months back and one thing led to another over the summer (being busy outside with other projects etc… and I never got around to assembling it until a few weeks ago.
Was still intimidated by that blade and I too had seen and heard some of those myths about “the speed of the hot dog being fed into the blade” and so on.
You clearly and confidently debunked those rumors and I for one really appreciate it. I’m just an amateur woodworker but with two young teenagers who are getting into woodworking it was definitely a worthwhile investment. Thanks again !!!
I just got the SawStop Jobsite. I heard all of the myths before I bought it but researched them and came up with the very same conclusions that you proclaim. I sold cars for 30 years starting in the 70’s, and heard these things at one time or another: 1. A six cylinder is too weak. 2. Fuel injection is expensive, unnecessary and nobody can fix it. 3. Front wheel drive is dangerous and will result in minor accidents totaling your car. 4. Mandatory seat belts are dangerous, I want to be thrown free in a serious crash. Stuff changes for the better but some people just can’t accept that. Thanks for helping!
I drive an 84 Chevy with no airbags. I guess I just like to live dangerously.
Johnny Foodstamp: You’re better off than I was with my old ‘56 Chevy. The steering column was shaped like a grenade launcher (aimed straight at my heart) Thanks for the comment, I forgot about the great air-bag controversy.
Sometimes they are too cheap but won't admit it so they try to blame something else.
Thanks James. I'm a noob. I bought the Sawstop PCS because embarking on woodworking at 60 and not having the benefit of hands on leaning with skilled and safe folk, I figured that thumbs were a shitload more expensive to lose than blades and carts. I see it as an insurance policy that mitigates some of the risks. Without experience, it can be difficult to sort info from myth, or shit from clay. Thanks for providing the clay to build on.
You got a hell of a late start. Especially for someone raised in the 60's. I thought every kid back then worked with wood.
Depends on the options you had through high school. Science OR manual arts.
I've never experienced a hot dog that needs a band-aid.
as a person that uses a lot of reclaimed material and refurbishes 1900's trolley cars I have been using a SawStop table saw for 7 years and have had a 23ga nail set off the brake, it destroyed the blade (not a cheap one) the cartridge was $65 and the blade was $30, the alternative could have cost much more $100 doesn't even cover walking into the emergency room.
3:35 I have personally seen this happen. I was a TA for a woodshop class in highschool the cut was going great on some reclaimed fencing and bang the cartage went off. When I took the blade off to investigate we found a broken off framing nail going right though were he was cutting. I love sawstops and though this happened its a SMALL price to pay compared to the fingers its potentially saved. Well worth the price, If I ever get back into carpentry I will be sure to save up for one.
I would imagine in today’s society and school with a woodworking shop class would have to have a sawstop (or anything similar) for safety reasons.
I teach at a high school. We have had our SawStop for 13 years and it is probably the best investment we ever made. In that time it has been activated about 8 times. Twice by students not waiting for the green light to stop blinking before they accidently touched the blade with a tape measure. I myself activated it twice. The first time I was in the shop on a Saturday not expecting anyone to come walking in. One of my co-workers did come in and it surprised me and my hand slipped into the blade . I got the tiniest nick possible on my thumb. The second time was from a piece of pressure treated lumber.
The other 4 times was from students that lost focus. Thankfully they did not lose a finger. I personally feel they are a great investment and worth every penny. The money saved from not having to visit the emergency room makes up for the cost and I would gladly buy it again.
I am an electromechanical technician. At a place I used to work at I've replaced about 3 of these including the blades in a die shop. I was told by the woodworker that his hands were clear each time and that metal in the boards must have set them off. We didn't worry about the blades in fact we turned the blades, saw stop included, into wall clocks for the die shop.
The cartridge now has a thin piece of plastic adhered to the cartridge to prevent pressure treated lumber from triggering a false trigger.
MYTH: SawStops are too expensive.
ANSWER: Have you priced a thumb lately?
I see the merit of that idea, but as a hobby woodworker, I would probably lose more than a thumb if my wife found out I paid 2500$ for a table saw !
@@bellybutthole69 I have my wife on board with the saw stop. I'm waiting for a tax refund
Don't forget the cost of the ER visit, and that's just the start.
@TakeAmericaBackfromISRAEL He dipped his hands in salt water before he did it. Don't know a lot of people who woodwork like that... lol
@@bellybutthole69 They sell a contractor saw that's pretty darn good for around 1700.00 If you are doing a home improvement project justify as part of the cost and fund it based on the saving by not hiring it done. :)
I have had many tablesaws over the years. A Powermatic 66, Unisaw, and currently a Grizzly 1023. I bought a Sawstop Industrial for our makerspace. We have been using that saw for about 3 years. We have had 3 instances where the cartridge triggered for no apparent reason. We have a surveillance camera above the SawStop, and in all three instances we were able to confirm the system triggered for no reason. In one instance, the operator turned on the saw and had not even started feeding material when it triggered. We do not allow any metal to be cut in the saw at any time, so it wasn't a left over chip that set it off. In all three cases, SawStop would not replace the cartridge under warranty. It was probably a faulty series of cartridges because we have not had another incident in two years.
The dust collection system is inadequate. Dust is only collected from the shroud around the blade. We have had problems with dust getting into the bevel gears that raise and lower the blade, jamming the blade height adjustment. I have also seen this problem on the Professional model.
The SawStop sensor measures the complex impedance of the blade assembly. If something of sufficient mass and conductivity touches the blade while it is spinning, the system will trigger. The object does not need to be grounded.
Of all the saws I've owned, I prefer the Grizzly. Was the $4000 SawStop a bad choice for the makerspace? No, not at all. We have never had an accident, but if we did, I do not want to explain to a jury that we could have bought a SawStop, but it was too expensive. Perhaps a chicken-out move, but a good business decision.
Your right about the grounding. It works on capacitance. Most people wear rubber shoes so they are not grounded. Unless you are touching your table. But we know you don't have to be holding the table for the break to work. Its too bad the company did not back up the product. I like the saw stop and may buy one but i hate to hear this.
I would get a meter on the power to the saw and watch for drift, or spikes.
The more complex an electrical system is, the more sensitive it is to the quality of power coming into it.
I'e seen some wacky think start to happen with systems have bad power. Including a computer that piked up AM radio.
Peace.
I triggered a Saw stop when the blade hit a staple at the end of a piece of 3/4" pine. As a woodshop teacher for 35 years, I will always recommend the Saw Stop! The best investment you can make in the woodshop.
Really great, thank you. I used a small contractors jobsite saw for decades, but I am now 67, and I don't feel quite as competent as I did at 30.
This puts me over the top on getting a Saw Stop.
Stumpy...in 1962, when I was 12, my father died from tetnus or what most people call lockjaw. He cut his thumb on a table saw. I use my table saw everyday and I am extremely cautious when i use it. A table saw deserves a lot of respect. Saw Stop would have prevented his death. I am now looking at updating my own saw.
Love the videos...bob
No, sawstop would not have prevented tetnus. Tetnus is a very common virus found throughout the environment. Unless sawstop can prevent any break in the skin whatsoever, a tetnus infection could occur. The good news is that there is a highly effective vaccine against tetnus that everyone should have and a booster should be received every 8 years.
@CMG30 i agree Saw Stop would not have prevent the tetnus which developed after the cut, but saw stop probably would have prevented the cut.
CMG30 by the way, Tetanus is not a virus, but is a bacterial infection...
@@NianticRiverWoodcraftingChrisN That is correct! Tetanus, also called lockjaw, is a serious infection caused by Clostridium tetani. This bacterium produces a toxin that affects the brain and nervous system, leading to stiffness in the muscles. ... The best way to protect against tetanusis to take the vaccine.
@@bijoysaraf650, and among others, it killed the first engineer of the Brooklyn Bridge, mid job. The work was finished by his son, an equally talented engineer.
I was working on a 5hp industrial SawStop when my finger contacted the blade. I did not even need a band-aid. However, when I ran my finger into my Craftsman saw. Well I needed a lot more than a band-aid. Buy one. It works. And it is a very well made saw to boot
I know this is an old post; but if you've twice put your digits into a table saw blade then you might want to reconsider whether you're qualified to be using the tool.
I work for an independent distributor of Sawstop. Setting up and maintenance/warranty work. I rarely do anything to them. They are very well built! The tech support is first class, second to no other company in the any tool market out there.
Everything this guy in the video is saying is spot on.
I know that this is very late to the party, but I thought that I would let you know about my recent incident with my Saw Stop PCS. I was ripping through a piece of lumber which I had reclaimed from an Ikea-like piece of cabinetry. Unbeknownst to me, it had one of those cylindrical aluminum latches for mechanically holding the panels together (5/8x5/8"), the feeding was instantly stopped while the blade continued to spin away as if nothing had happened. Obviously, the cartridge did not activate and luckily, the blade was undamaged. One more anecdotal piece of evidence that embedded metal will not trigger the blade stopping cartridge. BTW, I love your channel and watch every episode and learn something new (after over 60 years of woodworking) from most of them. Keep up the great work!
James love your show! Good info - I too have corrected people in various forums and youtube because of incorrect info. Having said that I have had two breaks fire in the last 5 years one I was doing some 45 degree bevel cuts and while the saw was not in contact with any metal or my finger (fortunately) Sawstop analysed the break and determined that it must have came close to the aluminum mitre fence and arced. The second I swapped out a 10" Freud glue line for a 10" combination and as soon as I turned on the saw it fired - it seems that not all 10" saws are 10" even from the same manufacturer. Freud admitted this. so now whenever I change the blade I check that the gap is correct. lastly - Sawstop do say that the saw can be reused in their FAQ. when I first got my saw I needed to do some dados and thought I could get away without buying a dado break - the SS wouldn't start no matter what I did.
no interest in saws or woodworking at all but ive seen a few videos about these saws and they seem like a no-brainer. if anyone seriously argues that $160 to replace a misfire on this isn't worth it is insane. even if you live in a country with decent healthcare why would you be fine with risking a finger
I use a SawStop every weekend.
I recently made a set of outdoor chairs with treated lumber that was VERY wet. To be safe (having triggered my SawStop before with an errant tape measure blade), I put the saw in By-Pass mode. While ripping one of the boards to width, I noticed that the light on the control panel started blinking. I "believe" that indicates that the saw WOULD have tripped had it not been in by-pass mode. The demo video clip you showed in your video of the wet wood LOOKED like it had been soaked in clean fresh (or tap) water. Tap Water doesn't conduct electricity very well, so combined with non-pressure treated lumber, I would not be surprised if it didn't trip the pawl. The fluids used to preserve wood have salts in them and those DO conduct currents.
BE VERY CAUTIOUS cutting Treated Lumber on a SawStop, and if you just bought the lumber from a Big Box store or it feels freshly treated, put the saw in By-Pass mode.
I agree with you on all counts. Allow me to share an anecdote. I've been a woodworker for over 40 years. My last job was in a furniture shop that at various times had 14 to 18 builders. I was there for 14 years. We used 2 Powermatic 74s and a big old General for years. One day a builder was slicing slats out of narrow boards and managed to lose focus and drove his thumb into the saw blade. Being an ex-corpsman the crew always had me tend to any injuries. Lucky me I got to drive the wounded fella to the ER (bringing along the useless ripped tip of a thumb). He was out of the shop for several weeks but eventually made it back to full time building with us. About a year passed then the same gent had another lapse of attention, this time at an OMGA T50-350 chop saw. That incident cost him half a digit. That was the final straw for the shop's insurance carrier. The choice was to either upgrade to SawStops or have the premiums raised to an unaffordable price. So we switched out to three SawStop 7hp machines. When the dust had settled the cost of the new machines, including all the installation costs was cheaper than the cost of the second injury to my friend (gotta love those lawyers huh?). Since that day no one has been injured by a table saw in our shop. Yes we had inadvertent firings of the brakes now and then but SawStop has a great service in that they will "read" the electronic diagnostics built into each brake and shares their findings from a blown brake with the customer. Come to find that all of our "inadvertent" firings were the result of metal contacts. Further investigation by our in-house millwright traced the problem to the the MDF core melamine panels we were using hsd occasional metal filings in their core. Some kind of manufacturing clusterf*ck on their part. We found another source for the sheet goods SawStop works. Thanks for listening..