I Left Powermatic for Sawstop!
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- čas přidán 3. 03. 2022
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If you follow me on social media, this will come as no surprise: I bought a SawStop! This comes after 20 years of using Powermatic table saws, exclusively. After losing Powermatic as a sponsor ( • I Lost a Sponsor | Pow... ), it was time to re-evaluate my table saw situation. I've always been intrigued by SawStop technology but due to my sponsorship, having one in my shop wasn't in the cards. So let me be perfectly clear about something. I still hold the opinion that a SawStop is not necessary if one is diligent about table saw safety. And I also still hold the opinion that Powematic makes some of the best table saws available. These two opinions are not mutually exclusive.
So as you can imagine, this review offers only on single perspective from a long-time user of Powermatic saws. Everything I look at on this Sawstop will be viewed through a Powermatic lens. Will it perform as well as my PM2000? Is it as heavy duty? Did I lose anything with this change? Will I ultimately regret it or did Sawstop knock it out of the park? Time will tell. But for now, this video gives you my first impressions.
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I have to say I appreciate your commitment to using your blade guard as much as possible. Almost every table saw accident I have ever heard of could have been prevented with a blade guard. The more they see CZcamsrs using their guards, the more folks will come to realize they are worth the hassle and it is a fallacy to think you can not work effectively with one in place for most cuts. HOWEVER- Table saw manufacturers also have to step up their game and make sturdy guards that are easier to remove and replace without tools, as SawStop and other premium brands have. I can't blame someone for leaving his guard off if it's a flimsy piece of crap or if it takes ten minutes and three Allen wrenches to put it back on..... I have four saws in my shop and three of them are SawStops. I have their ICS, their contractor's saw and their jobsite saw. As someone with a lot of experience with their entire line I can say I have never been disappointed in their saws. And I use my guards for 95% of my cuts.
That matches my experience. My PCS is the third table saw I have owned, but is the first one that I use the blade guard as much as I can. On the earlier saws, I removed the guard and never put it back on.
So the issue I have had with guards is that the boards get stuck. I have had it happen, even on the sawstop. And I hate that. And end up taking them offf.
@@Monuments_to_Good_Intentions if they are getting stuck, are you sure they are properly adjusted? The riving knife should be in line with the body of the blade and not the edge of the teeth. You also want to ensure your trunnion is aligned, this is often an issue on newer saws. The riving knife or splitter should never be restricting movement
@@Monuments_to_Good_Intentions How did your board get stuck with the SawStop guard? Which guard? The dust collection guard like Marc shows in this video, or the simpler flip-guard? Was it the anti-kickback pawls that caused the catch? (I hate those and always lock them in the upward position).
Actually "Almost every table saw accident I have ever heard of could have been prevented with..." learning and always using proper table saw habits/techniques.
New to woodworking, bought a sawstop a little over a year ago. Absolutely love it. Looking forward to a how to for that fence upgrade. Never even thought of seeing if I could change that. Still so many things to learn..
One more thing. Note to all sawstop owners. If you are cutting pitchy wood such as pine, YOU MUST CLEAN THE BLADE REGULARLY. I found this out the easy way. Had been cutting pine and was showing a friend how the saw senses your skin. With the saw off you can touch the side of the blade and watch the red light go off. It didn't. Changed the blade and it was fine.
Yeah, good pointer there.
Spot on about injuries. My only ER trip as an adult occurred when I was working tired (strike 1), then reached across the blade after shutting off the saw to remove an offcut (strike 2 and strike 3). It wasn't that serious but I'm so glad you brought it up. The blade guard would have saved me too, but like you also mention, I didn't have it on the saw at the time.
I have the same saw and mobile base. It has been a great tool. I will admit my saw did not seem to be aligned as well as most claim and I was a little disappointed at first. Between the instruction manual and Sawstop's videos I was able to get my saw tuned perfectly. Being able to adjust blade alignment when tilted allowed me to get perfect cuts on some pyramid shaped newel post tops I had to make recently. I truly appreciate the thought that went into making the saw adjustable in every manner necessary to keep it in tune.
Marc welcome to the club, had mine nearly 10 years prior to that a Delta Unisaw, saved me 4X from serious injury during that time also as you pointed out its well engineered and built; your family and all of us in you're extended family are grateful you're on board.
One thing I value is your honest opinion. You touched on points i had not heard from the other makers/influencers about the Sawstop. Thank you!
I've had my SS PCS for several years with no complaints. I've never had an accidental activation. I typically don't have to adjust the blade distance when I go to a dado stack, either. It's a great saw that has been worth the investment.
I’m really glad for you. While woodworking and creating content at the same time, it’s nice knowing you have EXTRA safety in place. I have had a SawStop for many years and it’s been a pleasure to use. I considered the Powermatic because you were using it, as also my house is full of Festool, but my wife rolled her eyes and said “GET THE HOTDOG SAW”. I am a professional Drummer and a Golf Professional, and I’m accustom to using all my fingers for both, plus not wanting to make that shameful trip to the hospital. Bonus, BLACK is my favorite color. Good luck with your SawStop
I have all kinds of reasons to want to keep my fingers, but when I started making guitars, the insane contrast of using a table saw that can injure one, and building guitars really spoke to me. I switched to a Swiss precision saw, and I just won't do anything on the saw, or use the saw to do crazy things. If it is risky I don't do it. In fact, I don't do it if it is conceivable I would be hurt. The thing is back to about 1980 ish, most US instruction was based on doing everything on the table saw. But these days, in the shops, a lot of us have today there is no reason to take risks. Say a person might have done slip joints for doors holding the pieces vertically over the blade. Today you have devices that hold those pieces, biscuits, Dominoes, mortising machines. Why take a risk doing anything that might end in disaster. On that basis SS is irrelevant.
I love mine. Saved me a trip to the ER when I was ripping thin stock. Well worth the cost just because of that, as well as the dust collection for my basement shop. Congrats, you'll enjoy it!
Marc, welcome to SawStop. I’ve had an original PCS (now ICS) since 2007 and have enjoyed using it. If the current PCS had been available back then I would have bought one of them. Like you said, they are good for what most of us do. Your review was excellent and well done as usual. Your information on the blade guard dust collection already has me thinking that I need to change mine out. The original guard, while it’s a great guard and easy to swap out, has no dust collection. I find that I use for every cut where it’s possible to use the guard due to how easy and quick it is to exchange it with the riving knife.
Your statement that the technology add on is sort of like a tax was interesting. I’ve always considered it more like an insurance premium. Even though I have great medical insurance changing out a brake and having a blade repaired is still much less than even my medical detectable would be for a stay in the hospital. I got my saw because as soon as my wife saw the SawStop video she told me to buy one and even figured out how we could pay for one. She immediately recognized how much one could save us in the event of a table saw accident.
I’m interested in seeing your modifications so I’m looking forward to videos on them. Thanks for sharing.
Great discussion, thank you- I’ve been thinking about saw stop for a while as my son gets older.
I love my Sawstop PCS. I have the same model and configuration you purchased, Marc. As a musician and engineer/programmer, losing even a bit of a finger would be devastating to my source of income and life-long love of playing music. I just put the Sawstop cast iron router table on the left side recently. It's pretty long now, but still works in my 1 car garage-turned-woodshop.
Great review. Reaching for an offcut after I turned off the saw is exactly how I injured myself a year ago and prompted my SawStop purchase.
Always love the way you approach your reviews Marc. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Your honestly and candid presentation is always appreciated! Many thanks!
Great review Marc! I love my SawStop! It's perfect or dang near it!
I have purchased major tools from Delta, Jet, PowerMatic, Rikon and even Laguna and had some kind of problem with them all. I have even returned 2 tools from 2 of these manufactures.
Then there is SawStop. Fantastic saw, company and support guys. They actually answer the phone when you call and I have never gotten anything but 100% correct answers.
I just setup that exact model in my shop 2 weeks ago. Upgrading from a contractor saw, the difference is amazing. The safety feature is just gravy on top. It also amuses me my saw now has to boot to standby before I can use it.
I have had my PCS for almost 10 years ... consider it one of the best woodworking investments I have made. It was dead-on accurate out of the crate, and has never given me a single problem (well, there was that one accidental activation when I let my aluminum miter gauge get too close to the blade!).
Except for the fact I've had my PCS for 5 years - exact same comment. I'm just a retired engineer who does some woodworking as a hobby, but can afford to spend for some high end toys now and then, and picked this one. When cutting with my incra HD miter set to a very sharp angle, touched the blade and bang. Didn't even leave a mark on the miter, though the Freud premier fusion blade was toast.
@@cctknight84 I popped the brake on my very first cut ever because I did not readjust my 1000HD. It's preserved forever as my wife wanted to 'document' the first cut on my most expensive purchase. Premiere Fusion as well.
@@grantman1148 lol, oh no, memorialized forever!! I will say, after 30 years of using a Craftsman belt drive contractor saw, my first cuts with a 3 hp Sawstop were quite the revelation. My next upgrade will be to my dust collection system - to call what I now have a system is probably quite the exaggeration.
My multiple activations were all related to the miter gauge. Train yourself to carefully check when either the saw blade and/or miter gauge are not longer in the 90 deg position.
@@benblackwell44 Multiple activations? lol, once was all it took for me. (and now I've probably jinxed myself!)
Def the best assembly manual (and the blister style nut packaging!) I've worked with. Glad you can have the safety.
I've had my Sawstop CB-ICS for about 15 years, and love it. My addition of dedicated vacuum for blade guard was great addition. My other happiness comes from Incra TS LS. With it installed you don't need the table legs and have room for nice under table cabinet. I don't know if the current saws are different, but with mine the blade brake is still functional until the blade stops after turning the saw off.
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Great video and tips. I've had my Pro SawStop w/52" fence for 11yrs and actually was motivated to buy after having a thumb tip nip mishap on a Ridgid contractor saw. I notice your newer saw blade stops very fast. Mine tends to coast for a while and after doing a refresher on the safety manual, I read that if you do touch the blade even while coasting to a stop, it'll trigger the brake. I've actually finally installed the dado stack for first time recently since I didn't want to dink with the brake before but its pretty easy to swap out after all. Normally I'd use the router table or shaper for rabbets and dadoes but now giving bigger tasks to the saw after getting back into Woodworking much more aggressively now after a nearly 6yr hiatus due to lack of nice garage. (pole shed seasonal indoor rain -- central wisc weather). Anyhow hoping you'll expand more on the capabilities of the saw stop and after market upgrades. Not that my wallet needs to take a bigger hit but a lot of the tools you use and I've also purchased recently sure make woodworking life easier and I'm all about making most efficient use of time in the shop.
Welcome to the club! I'm looking forward to see what kind of accessories you've added (especially that extruded fence).
Awesome Video. I got my SawStop in January of this year. I accidentally activated the safety break, right after purchasing my Forrest Two woodworker blade. Uuuggghhh....! It's currently sent out for repair on the 3 teeth that got misaligned after becoming imbedded in the safety break cartridge. I was using my Swanson Metal Square on my crosscut sled.... Silly, silly , silly of me. I love the guard. You don't need to add a separate vacuum to it. It pushes the dust by the force of the air coming off the blade, along with the suction from your 4" or bigger, dust collector. And you can easily make your own Blade Dust Collection system, avoiding that $250 price tag for above table collection. Great machine. Thanks Mark.
I bought a Saw Stop 4 years ago and I love it. I bought the 52” and I debated on the horsepower for awhile before deciding the 1.75 hp should be enough and I haven’t regretted it. I converted it to 240v and bought a woodworker2 blade for it that made a world of difference. A builder friend brought over a rough sawn 4x12 piece of cherry for a fireplace mantel and I was able to rip it in 2 passes with the blade at full depth with no problem. One of the main reasons I bought one was because I’m 60 now and I remember how scary my Dad got working on his tablesaw in his 80’s and I figured one trip to the ER would cost more than the saw.
I've had the 3HP PCS 220V 52" table for several years now and it's great. It is my 4th table saw and the only one that I have ever kept the blade guard on. Ironic, huh, since the others didn't have any safety features! I activated the brake once with my Incra Mitre and I was completely surprised by the instantaneous reaction of the saw. Wow! I couldn't find a single scratch mark on the mitre. As for dust collection, it's the best. I did however, upgrade to the Overarm Dust Collection recently because I got tired of exchanging the riving knife and blade guard whenever I wanted to make through and non-through cuts. You're gonna love it!
I just bought the PCS 3HP saw with 36" fence this past December. Keep in mind, this is my first brand new tool purchase, but everything you said is spot on. From the color-coded instructions and hardware packets, to the fit and tolerances, this machine is very well designed and built. I had to run a tap through one threaded hole in the rail due to a small goober, but other than that, EVERYTHING fit perfectly. Miter slots were perfectly parallel to the blade, fence, was parallel to the blade, and even the miter gage was exactly 90 out of the box. Very impressive machine and a pleasure to use!
I have the exact same saw (for a few months). Love it! I came from a contractor saw, so massive upgrade for me. I picked it up because my boys told me they wanted to do some woodworking projects with me in the garage (among other reasons).
Welcome to the SawStop community! I suggest you got ahead and buy both a standard cartridge and a dado cartridge. When you eventually trigger the brake, you want to be able to swap the cartridge and put a new blade in and get back to work without having to wait for a new one to be delivered or finding one at a local store. I keep one of each cartridge in my blade storage box.
I practice the same approach.
I can attest the ICS saw has an amazingly easy adjustment system as the PCS, it has a table pivot point in the front and two bolts in the back to push the table in each direction. Works perfectly, I’ve even been able to take the table off and put it back without needing adjustment. Really cool.
Thanks for making this video Marc, I was a PM fanboy as well, largely because of you. I only recently paid any attention to SawStop, and it was that people saying they would buy it without the braking technology. Your decision, put me over the edge.
You made the right call on the PCS! My ICS was delivered in November and was, honestly, a nightmare. After three months of issues with the arbor and table and trying to get it fixed I finally gave up. They offered to send me a new ICS, but said it would likely have warranty issues as well. I had it returned instead. I ended up ordering a slider to replace it which should show up later today!
You do have to spend some time setting the saw up... blade, fence, etc. But once done, the saw is great. Fairly compact which is Nice czcams.com/users/postUgkxXh-4_3-ZT1fFWP91ZV7iVqzElr0lEb-a I did get an Incra Miter Gauge which takes some setup as well. The stock miter gauge can be adjusted in the miter slot with a little painter's tape... this tightens up the side to side play a lot.
When SawStop hired me I was going to get the PCS as part of my commission but they didn’t have in stock, they only had the ICS in their warehouse. It is A LOT of saw to have. I don’t regret it at all, but definitely not needed for most shops. Nice video :)
As an ex Health and Safety Guy ... Term that escapes most is "Zero Energy State" .... "off" Seldom means free of Danger. Super Glad you brought this up!
I’m still waiting on mine to arrive I went for the contractor as it was in my price range. I’m so glad you showed your set up with the hoist and it works as I’ll be doing the same method. So thanks for the great review I’ve only been a sub to your channel for a few weeks and I’m getting so much knowledge from you so thanks so much for sharing
Sawstop recommends you hoist the saw with the help of 3 beefy friends. At the same time, the packing materials come with a piece of dense styrofoam cut to just the right size that you can slide the prone saw cabinet onto it, then tip the saw upright. With a little planning and leverage, I was able to get the saw off the floor and into the mobile base by myself, without trauma to either the saw or my spine. On the other hand, I don't own a hoist, so that wasn't an option.
Great review on your new SawStop. I was planning to buy one a few years ago mostly to get a more powerful table saw, but also for the safety factor. I delayed the buy when I bought a Festool tracksaw, so some of the need was fulfilled - breaking down sheet goods. Also, I have a narrow basement shop, so the thought of getting it in, and having room to maneuver, was a concern. I plan to expand my shop by removing a wall that divides off my shop from the finished room in our basement. I’ll get that much needed extra space, and plan to get a PCS model as soon as expansion is complete.
I'd love more information on how you attached the extrusion to your fence. I've noticed the dips and valleys on my sawstop as you mentioned. I hope you do a video on this
8:02 One of the first upgrades I got for my old Delta were In-line Industries' PALS. It's a similar set up, where your able to bolt on L brackets and micro-adjust your trunnion into alignment.
Beat me to it. The BEST extra few bucks EVER on my old Delta.
Nice thing about cutting damp wood is that the safety feature can be easily bypassed so you can still make the cut without risking a brake activation. Takes only a few seconds and the system resets when you turn off the saw.
Thank you for your honest opinion.. I have loved the idea that these saws are.. I have a friend that nearly lost 3 fingers on a table saw and it scared the crap out of me... Thanx for the video..
The big Powermatic was always my dream table saw. A few years ago, I wound up getting a PCS with a 52" table and a nice outfeed table, and I think I have found my forever saw. I will be curious to watch this thread over time. Also, the infinity inserts are pretty nice, but they do take a little time to dial them in. I mostly just use the Dado inserts to get zero clearance. I will use a marker on the top to indicate which blade or set I used with the insert with the hope that it can be re-used.
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I really enjoy your videos. The honesty of your opinions is so appreciated. Of course, the quality of your instruction is truly priceless. Thank you!
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After years of looking at sawstop, I finally bit the bullet and got a PCS. I have been very happy with the purchase.
Hey wood whisperer I think a phishing bot stole your face.
Congradulations. I bought a SawStop 3 years ago after 25 years with a big, 3HP General. I liked the General, like the sawstop and concur with everything expressed here. Four things I don't like about the saw. The distance between the blade and the front of the saw is much shorter, forcing me to use a sled, which I find awkward, for boards wider than 10". Second the quality of the top is not what the General was; it was spotless after 25 years while the Sawstop started accumulating scratches immediately. When shaving a bit off the end of a crosscut, small pieces of wood can get stuck in the very narrow throat of the dust collector. Finally, like you I hooked my overhead dust arm up to a Fesstool extractor but found the extra hassle didn't provide enough benefit over the standard installation.
If I were buying today, I'd probably think hard about the Harvey, but don't really have any big regrets about my purchase.
Enjoy your channel, full of good stuff. I recently replaced my 25 year old Chinese 12"saw 52" rails + large sliding table (worn out) with the Industrial SawStop. The method of removing the table insert, changing the riving knife, the dust collection power of the blade guard are the main features that sold me on SawStop. The Blade arresting system was a bonus. I'm a member of 2 woodworking clubs & have access to 4 different table saws & have been using table saws for 50-60 years so I know what I need & what I want. I'm a little upset that they don't produce a `12" version, but I replaced the drop saw with a 12" one. 99% of the time it's all OK. Very happy with my decision. Oh, I got the small sliding table & fixed it to the left table wing. I'd probably have been better off with an Incra miter gauge.
After owning the same saw and using it for a month or so my employee accidentally touched the blade while running and kicked off the safety feature. There was absolutely no harm to his finger and saw stop replaced the cartridge for free. I had to send the old one in and they checked to see if it was flesh contact that set it off then sent me a new one out pretty quickly. They’re a great company with amazing customer service.
And what did you decide to do with the blade?
@@fassst6 get it fixed. It only damaged one tooth.
That is great though how the hell did that happen. Do you drug test at all. In a worshop there are many things that can gore you, unless you just push wood through the saw all day. Nice to know the saw worked, what are you going to do about the employee?
@@HondoTrailside - I think he should cut the employee’s hand off to set an example.
I’ve run a SawStop since 2007 - saved at least two fingers! One was mine and the other my master level lead man. Worth every penny x100!
I discard the blade after a brake activation. As the SS tech explained to me, a brake activation can generate very high momentary heat which can compromise the carbide brazing on on or more teeth. Better to replace the blade than risk slinging carbide! True.
Awesome upgrade and you will not be disappointed with the SawStop and the Colliflower insert. Same set up I've had on mine for years and well worth it.
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Great video, very informative and well done. Thanks for doing this Marc! I always learn a lot.
Great saw. I am long time follower of Wood Whisper and years ago, when the time came to buy my table saw, was ready to but a PM. Last minute changed my mind and got a Sawstop for the safety feature. I do not use their blade guard, use the aftermarket Shark Guard, and I use it just about all the time. Their rail is very good. The table was easy to align and has stayed aligned. The only issue I ever had was a piece of metal tape I didn't notice on a board once set off the blade stop and it was an expensive lesson to learn.
Can you speak about your experiences with the SawStop blade guard versus the SharkGuard. I just bought the SawStop, but I have a leftover Shark Guard. I could pay a few bucks to convert the shark to the new saw, but I'm wondering if I should bother.
Marc, congrats on the purchase! I have the 5HP ICS, and it is an absolute monster. The rails are 1/4" thick, and in some places it looks like they added mass just for the sake of adding mass. That said, I've had mine for 4 years and really really enjoyed it. I haven't had any nuisance trips, and the saw has run smoothly and issue free since I got it. I think you'll be happy with the purchase. One thing you may consider adding is a caster on the bottom of the fence to ride on the rear rail. It's already a smooth fence, but the caster keeps it from sliding across the top and makes it really really nice.
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I sell Saw Stop at Woodcraft and your description was spot on.Another Saw Stop tax is when you disable the electronic package to in fact cut wet wood, you practally have to field strip the inside.Carefully wiping out all the surfaces.
I came across your videos because I needed advice on the Festool Rotex 150 (removing stubborn antifouling from my s/y with Makita and Toshiba sanders, it just ain't happening). You helped my decision making, thanks. This video was the third one I saw and I must agree with you... yes "This is the reason why you lost the sponsorship" lol. I like your videos and you are a great communicator. Will be checking your past videos and keep up the good work.
Had one for 10 years and I love it. Two blade cartridge trips that were my fault. No contact with me but both times with jigs that have metal parts. Not paying attention is why I bought it in the first place. But it is a high quality powerful, and accurate saw.
Welcome aboard the SawStop Express, Marc~! I picked mine up in 2016 after having used my Craftsman 10" contractor saw since 1990'ish. I had an accident on that one around '98 and almost lost a finger, but came out okay. I stalked the SS Pro for several years and was wanting one, but the price was intimidating. We were in a tool store in Columbia, SC, where they carried them and after showing it to my wife, she said "I think you need one of those SawStop thingys" as we were about to leave. With that endorsement, I did an immediate about-face and took one home. I've not looked back since. Best tool purchase I've made in over 30 years of woodworking~!!
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Looking forward to seeing what upgrades you go with.
Marc, I used to work for Woodcraft. I’ve owned my PCS for 3.5 years. At Woodcraft we sold SawStop 10-1 over Powermatic and Jet. When I left Woodcraft 2 years ago, a new PM2000 was $350 more than a PCS 3 hp 36”. I’m happy you have your new saw. Some day your kids will want to use the saw. It’s nice to know they will be protected from harm. Nice transparent review as usual. Thanks.
I went with the exact same saw recently. Well, almost exact....I ordered the 30" version and upgraded to an Incra fence so I have more capacity than I could ever need. Zero regrets with any of it...it is without a doubt the central hub of my woodshop and has made my hobby so much more enjoyable. I upgraded from a SS Jobsite...also a great piece of gear that I plan to hold on to.
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I have the same Saw. 3HP PCS 36”. Love it !!
Beautiful piece of equipment. Had it 5 years. No issues.
Going on 6 years with my saw stop, it has been one of my best wood shop investments! My wife is an OT who treats about 2 -3 woodworkers a year that have lost fingers on a non-saw top table saw.
Thanks for putting this together. The caveats at the end included some details I hadn't heard before. Great info.
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Thanks Marc, appreciate the honest review.
2:22 thanks for the sound logic behind picking 36 inch over 52. I went back and forth over this when I bought my saw (has not been shipped to me yet) and settled on 36 inch, too. Until now I kept doubting my decision.
I got a PM2000 with 52" capacity about 15 years ago and I don't think the fence has been anywhere near the end of the rail since I assembled the saw. Usually wind up with bowl blanks or segmented rings stacked up over there.
Thanks Mark! I hope you enjoy your new saw!
I have had the 3HP PCS for a few years. I am very pleased with it. Looking forwarding to seeing the upgrades you did.
I just bought the same model, so I'm looking forward to the upgrades as well.
Hey Mark I'm a woodworker of over 40 years and 6 years ago I got the Sawstop because I got my thumb for the second time with my craftsman contractors saw. Since owning my Sawstop I have had 3 activations (not proud moments) but only one was a flesh contact and the other two were should I say a dumb moments. At this point in my life I'm glad I have it and I know you were used to the Powermatic saw where I came from the other end of the spectrum so it is tons better than the Craftsman. I'm hoping I can figure out that I need to think things thru a little better so I don't set it off again. Anyway I really enjoy using my saw even though I'm a little gun shy at the moment.
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I just started a new job and with my big pay raise a Sawstop is going to be my first shop purchase. CANT WAIT!!
Another great video! I have had the same saw for almost two years now. I love it.
I always think the best thing they could do for tablesaw safety would be to stop the blade very quickly. You're so right about the injuries that happen when we're impatient for that blade to stop. I hope you love your saw Marc.
My understanding is this is the real reason dado stacks aren't "legal" in Europe. The actual regulation is when a saw is stopped/turned off the blade must stop spinning under a certain time (very quick). Dado stacks are heavy and prevent the motor/stopping mechanism from stopping the spinning fast enough. At least that's what I vaguely remember from a Stumpy Nubs video.
"the best thing they could do for tablesaw safety" would be to keep your fingers away from the d** blade. With a blade guard and a sliding table.
@@kykkeliky124 Life experience will ultimately reveal that normal human behavior will _always_ include human error. These things are engineered to protect us from ourselves, whether we want to recognize it or not.
@@BartonMaxwell This is correct, it's too expensive for lower-end saws in Europe to have this tech, so they just make the stacks incompatible with their arbors. But higher end consumer and all industrial saws have the ability to be tooled for dado stacks.
Yeah, I dealt with that just today…just hanging out waiting for my blade to stop lol
I have the SawStop Model PCS175 and I love it. The Folding Outfeed Table has been a great accessory. My next upgrade will be the Floating Overarm Dust Collection because the Overarm Dust Collection blade guard's dust port is so small it clogs easily and is difficult to unclog. That happens mostly when I'm trimming a board and have a small thickness offcuts. These offcuts sometimes break off and gets sucked into the blade guard and they are stuck.
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Just upgraded from a decent contractor saw to the 3HP PCS 52 but with the integrated router table - which is really a 36 workable area. It ultimately saves me space over the separate router table I used to have.
Good video as always. I bought my Powermatic PM2000 back when Sawstop was first becoming available. A friend of mine who worked at a woodworking store liked the Sawstop, had done demonstrations with the Sawstop and bought one for his own Woodshop. But the number of accidental activations he had, due to the moisture content of the wood, etc, turned me off of the Sawstop. And I was concerned about the trunnion/saw durability and the cost of new blades and cartridges. Knowing what I know now about the Sawstop, I probably would have bought the Sawstop. I like my Powermatic just fine and it does everything I ask of it. And knock on wood, hopefully I never regret getting a saw without the flesh sensing technology.
When I got my PM2000 tablesaw I got the bigger motor with the 30 something inch table with router lift as my shop was in a 2 car garage. But I also bought the 52”? Extension table with router plate cut out and rails be cause I had plans to build a detached workshop and put the larger extension on it as I make a lot of dental molding in long lengths.
Still haven’t built my detached workshop yet though due to an injury at work. It was a car accident where someone ran a red light and t-boned my right front door and significantly damaged my back and neck. I had to take a medical retirement and never got the shop built. I guess it could have been worse… 😊
I much appreciate your honest review. Someday I may upgrade my table saw and of course the SawStop will be a consideration. I trust what you say. And am looking forward to seeing you creature-comfort add-ons. Our local WoodCraft store will be doing a SawStop demo in a couple of weeks and I plan to attend that. Maybe I should bring my wife as well, per Don Bullock's comment below :)
I thought i couldn't afford a SS and had purchased an older Delta Unisaw. Last Labor Day I was doing a cove cut on the table saw and managed to take a notch out of my left index finger. After a trip to the Emergency Room and seeing a hand specialist, my finger has recovered 99 percent. I am certainly not the craftsman that Marc and others posting here are, but I am very safety conscious and have been using table saws for 45 years plus without incident. Sitting in the ER waiting room I jokingly mentioned to my wife that if I needed to upgrade to a SS. After talking about it she said let's get one, it will be cheaper than additional trips to the ER. I received the saw in September and was thoroughly impressed with the assembly instructions and the overall quality of the saw. The Unisaw was nice, but the SS is great. Good review.
Ordered my ICS back in June of 2021. Picked it up 5 months later, Unfortunately mine came had the recalled arbor and am still waiting on a replacement Arbor from Sawstop in the mean time they sent me a couple version 3 brake cartridges and one version 3 dado cartridge. Id do it all over again if I had to. The ICS is ultra premium!
I bought the same saw about a year ago and I love it!!! I eventually built a cabinet for underneath the right side of the saw and removed the skinny legs.
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Mark, you reminded me that I could adjust the play in the rip fence, which I did. But afterward I couldn't clamp the fence in position. I called SS tech support and they told me to reverse the adjustment, and to pull the locking lever away from the saw when fine tuning the position (to seat the two pads). I loved getting rid of the slop, but disappointed that there wasn't a separate adjustment for the locking lever.
Welcome to the club 😀. I have the same saw, it’s a pleasure to use 😀
straight shootin' info. your candor is always appreciated
Back in the 1990's I had a Jet cabinet saw with 3HP. For the past 9 years I have owned the ICS SawStop, 3HP also. I have resawed 1x6 Ipe with the blade fully up and burried and did not hear any straining going on. 3hp is pleanty for any operation. No more HP needed unless you run the saw non stop all day long. I switch between a WWII and a dado set often. It takes me 30 seconds longer to make the swap including changing the brake. Adjustment is not critical as long as the brake is not too close to the blade. I had a false trigger when I forgot to adjust the brake for the yet to be sharpened dado set. Now I simply adjust by a certain amount of turns and do not measure. A little of dry lube on the pivot points on the brake help to make it slide on and off of the placement rod more easily. You will get the hang of it. Put a touch of that dry lube on the lock pin lever too.
Thanks for the awesome walkthrough! One of these have been on my list for a while and this may have won me over.
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That is so true, i didn't even think about it. i bought the extended table and I also break down with a track saw. I never do a full sheet on the table saw. Smart. but it is a good place to collect junk as you say.
we have 2 saw stops in our shop. They are great saws when they're new, but after a few years they are both falling apart and worn out in the exact same ways.
The blade adjustment handle is broken on both saws (height and angle adjustment, so that's 4 broken handles), the panel beside the blade to improve dust collection is broken on both saws, the cam lever to tighten the fence is worn out on both saws. both saws have had their paddle switches replaced multiple times.
In my opinion they are not robust enough for a shop environment.
@@TheWoodFly used delta and general and altendorf saws before that. I did replace a few paddle switches but none of the handles ever broke off in my hand.
I had considered a SawStop two years ago, and I was looking at something I could move around since I do my work in a 2 car garage. I was looking and considering it and I had a friend buy their contractor saw for his business. He cuts all kinds of stuff all day and between him and his men, they set it off once a week or more. Wet wood has been the biggest issue with his work. He eventually went back to some Dewalt stuff and mainly uses the Sawstop when they get a big job. I opted for something else since I have used my current Grizzly for over 30 years without a mishap. I know they can happen but I am very careful. I had a woodworker friend ask me how I had hands with so few scars after all this time and I told him that I always get my son to push the wood through my table saw just in case. (kidding). Great review. Let us know how it goes and if you manage to trip it. I will say the demonstration with the hotdog that Sawstop put out is impressive.
Nice overview. I believe the ics table is bigger. I was lucky enough to get a 52" ics from auction... definitely overkill for me but I love it.
I have the same saw in my shop and love it. I got mine from my wife after a trip to the emergency room to fix my thumb I tried to cut in half. I have added a cast iron router table to the left side which gives me an added 16 inches of width. I haven't found anything that will bog it down yet and I have cut some 8/4 cherry as well as maple and walnut.
Hi Marc, great video. As a Sawstop ICS owner I can tell you the overarm guard does have one big flaw. While the dust collection is excellent, strangely the opening where the hose connects is smaller in terms of total area than the front of the guard where chips and dust are sucked up. Many times I've had little off cut pieces that are big enough to get sucked up but not big enough to go through the opening at the back. They get stuck and clog everything up and you have to stop and remove the guard and I often have to use a plumber's drain stick to fish the pieces out of there. Not fun. Also, the safety system is necessary even with the guard on. I know this from experience. I was ripping some small stock with the guard attached and when I reached over with my left hand to grab the off cut that came off, my index finger contacted the back of the spinning blade because those side wings on the guard rise and lower with the thickness of the pieces being cut. that left an opening big enough for my finger to go through. The safety system worked just like advertised, and though I had to go to the ER and get a few stitches, my finger is still attached! Best of luck with the saw.
Really informative video! I'm just starting out so it's not economical for me to own a SawStop. But this video has convinced me to grab one when it makes sense to do so.
Set up some alerts on Craigslist and similar sites. There are enough out there that they routinely come up for decent deals if you watch close and act quick. Just decide for yourself what you’re willing to spend so you don’t have to make the decision in the moment.
Little late to comment. But hearing your input on the compromises - I bought this saw as the first full saw I got, and I'm perfectly comfortable with all the obvious compromises you saw as I'm a hobbiest.
Good call. I am SOOOOO happy for you and your assistant. I moved over to my first safety saw about 5 years ago, a SawStop. It already saved the fingers/hand of one of our employees. Because of that abject lesson, we added a Kappa 550 sliding table saw. Both are beyond essential parts of our studio now. SawStop is an amazing value.
I had a saw stop for a boat 6 years. I also at the same time bought a panel saw. So I didnt use the sawstop as much anymore. My biggest issue was the power. It was 3 HP but would constantly shut off when under load like 8/4 stock. For this reason I sold it and bought an older general 3 HP. I miss the safety aspects but I need the ability to run heavy stock all day long if I had to.
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Most new saws do that I just bypassed passed the electrical shutoff now I can cut really thick material with no problem
@@texascraftsman7215 hello
Used to work with a 7-1/2HP Dewalt Radial. The mechanical blade brake also gave us a lot of malfunctions. But then we discovered an all-electronic blade brake. Even with the big motor and a 22" Carbide blade we could stop it in under a second. But we had to ease off that a bit. Very fast stops would loosen the arbor nut (obviously not a good thing) About a second and a half was optimal.
I see you are rocking the Weber T.. looks awesome 🤟🏽🤟🏽
The PM2000 casters may not work as well on a non-perfect floor, and it really feels like it takes 1000 revolutions to raise/lower them, but I've only used mine twice: original installation, and a minor shop rearrangement. They were really handy for those occasions, and it's really been nice not tripping over them every time I use the saw. If I had an engine hoist I'd probably remove the mobile bases from my bandsaw and jointer.
May be late to the game with SawStop, but I trust your information over anyone else I have seen on youtube, so thank you for the review and information, it is greatly appreciated.
That's my exact saw, it's great. I bought mine about 4 years ago and it doesn't have those same fence pads so I do get the slop you mentioned. And, of course, even with the 36" extension, it is always full of crap. Something about those horizontal surfaces.... I only have one complaint about the build quality and that involves the blade angle adjustment wheel lock mechanism. Not only is that knob plastic, but the internal sleeve it presses against metal banded plastic and mine cracked. When I put in the new one, I added a metal hose clamp around it before installing it. Customer service is great though.
I have noticed the lock knob for the tilt on mine has gotten 'soft' if you will. I have to crank it down more than the height locking knob to hold. Your post indicates I should check the internal sleeve. Thanks!
@@georgemuff5482 yes, that is exactly what I noticed so I took it apart. They quickly sent me a new part, but the design is bad and I was originally going to make my own replacement from a block of aluminum, but the hose clamp fix was easier to try.
Don’t need any more places to collect crap. Pans to the jointer covered in crap 👏👏
LOL
A trick on the engine hoist is to loosen the pressure release that is used to lower the hoist, lift up on the hoist arm to where you want it just about and then retighten the pressure release. It “should” stay around that area when you let go of the hoist arm and save you about 9000 pumps of the handle +\- 1-2 pumps :)
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Thanks, Marc. Helpful insights as always. Looking forward to your creature comfort add-on video.
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I bought a PM2000 about 7 years ago, and the 54" extension table has similar spindly legs to the Sawstop. Haven't had any problems at all.