This is an absolute disaster for Lucasfilm
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2023
- Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny seems to be a massive flop, which to be honest, as a massive fan of the franchise, is pretty heartbreaking. We'll talk that and more on today's video.
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An aged hero is supposed to transition into a wise mentor. Luke is supposed to become Obi Wan. In recent films however, the focus has been on deconstruction of heroic characters rather than their maturation.
Which isn't a problem in principle. KOTOR 2 is a great example, it's an explicit deconstruction of Star Wars tropes yet considered one of the best stories told in the franchise. If the execution didn't suck so bad, having Luke struggle with the innate flaws of the Order he had dedicated his life to rebuilding could be awesome.
@@Fusselikoexactly luke in a deep depression needing a person not connected to him would be great
The thing is I think you can have such a large change in character, but you need a whole-ass movie to justify it and not just a 30 second flashback
@@Fusseliko I'd argue that Kreia was a partial and not a total, complete deconstruction. Revan still came to the conclusion that the Emperor had to be defeated.
@@battlesheep2552 oh no agreed, and honestly I think itll still be fine as a reference because the skip, but it needs to be setup in a way that you WANT to see what lead to said characters depression that last time you saw them they were happy.
It’s pretty wild how Hollywood thinks quality and popularity directly correspond with budget lol like hey guys just because it was expensive doesn’t mean it’s good.
They dont think anything they are pushing agenda's out and dont care about money.
Reservoir Dogs had a budget of $1.2 M (!)
One common thread I've noticed in all of these failed movies Is that the main characters may be older than they used to be, but they haven't grown in any meaningful sense.
Indie isn't a respected Department Head with a loving family following in his adventuring footsteps. He's a newly retired has-been who lost his son in Vietnam and lives alone.
Luke Skywalker isn't the head of a Jedi Academy. He's a failed teacher whose student went crazy and who now lives as a hermit.
Nick Fury didn't found his own clandestine organization apart from Shield and go behind the scenes to save the world. He got shell shock and basically went AWOL when the world needed him the most.
None of these characters grew. Now compare that with Maverick from Top Gun. He is probably the most respected pilot in the US Navy and one of its best ever flight instructors.
Half of the people in the Navy hate his guts, but the other half worship the ground he walks on. And he is still a magnificent flier. And he long ago reconciled with an old enemy who became a dear friend. He grew.
Yeah. We need more GROWTH for our hero’s! But it seems that modern writers don’t understand that.
@@shcdemolisher Alas, it is so. Perhaps if their salaries grow as a result of the strike, their abilities will grow, too.
Or perhaps they will go. It is difficult to know.
Hey, that rhymes!
@@Blodhelm exactly!
Having spent a perfect life and achieved everything you could've ever dreamt to achieve doesn't really mean having "grown" though
@@qdaniele97 Luke didn't grow through, he repeated mistakes he should have learnt from and tried to kill his nephew based on fear.
100% with you on the order of Indiana Jones movies. The Last Crusade is a fine ending to the franchise, though I can sort of appreciate Crystal Skull just as far as Indy having a son and getting back together with Marian.
But this one, from all I've heard, continues the common path of throwing our heroes under the bus, ruining our heroes' legacy to try and set up a new hero. You have grumpy old and broken Han and Luke who lost our threw away everything in favor of Rey. I wouldn't be surprised if Fury stays broken and a step behind (which is already being set up) in favor of a face turn for Talos' daughter in Secret Wars. And now Indy being old and broken and (allegedly) being shown up by his goddaughter Helena in what is rumored to have been the starting point for her to have an Indiana Jones-esque series of her own.
It's (one of the reasons) why I loved Ghostbusters Afterlife. Was there a passing of the torch? Yep! Did it come at the expense of any of the legacy characters? No! Egon seemed like a grumpy jerk who bailed on everyone but he was actually working to save the world and had the one last moment of love and friendship with everyone at the end. Not to mention Venkman didn't end up alone and a perpetual scammer but he and Dana made it all right. THAT'S what we as fans want! To see our heroes are still heroes. Not lifeless husks used as fodder for the next generation.
Yeah! It’s honestly what happened when you give big franchises to talentless hacks who never cared about the franchise, they just want buckets of money. They’re sacrificing anything for money or to tell their own bullshit fanfic instead of…. you know. QUALITY ENTERTAINMENT! Now to be fair we have had a few good ones recently (top gun, and andor) but many of them have bombed for good reason in the eyes of the public.
And we shouldn't forget Cobra Kai - it's handling al of those points pefectly.
People want to see heroes remain heroes and have happy endings.
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 I've always had the Ghostbusters theme in my playlist, along with some choice songs and score pieces from the original. But Ghostbusters has always been a sentimental part of my life, it's I think my first major memory of seeing a movie with my dad. I think he would have enjoyed Afterlife as well. Walking out of Afterlife, I'm not too ashamed to say I wept with joy both at the movie and missing him.
@shcdemolisher1824 Not quite. J.J. Abrams is a hack who doesn't understand storytelling and has only ever done poor imitations of films he fell in love with in his youth, but he is a fan. Conversely, Rian Johnson and James Mangold are actually immensely talented, but they were all the way up their own arses on how to put their own creative spins on these IPs with no prior interest in, let alone respect for them or their passionate fans.
This was set up to fail due to the budget. It's absolutely insane
That's the real problem. It's not that this is going to do that bad, but the budget is too out of control. We are at a point where $65M domestic/$140M worldwide for an opening weekend is considered a flop! It's really insane. I am hoping ht e5-day may be kinder since we ahve a weird holiday in the US this weekend. If it holds over that, it may turn out okay. I am so sick of all the doom and gloom though!
So in order to break even it’s looking at making around 500 million dollars (that the upfront cost of 295 mill and that’s assuming they haven’t been fudging the numbers to lowball the cost, then you can add 100 to 150 mill for marketing plus any deals cut with the actors to get a cut of the box office, then we have the cost that the cinema will take thinking about it 500mill may actually be on the low side for what it will cost to break even and sadly this film just isn’t that good, there are very few films that are 500mill+ levels of good)
@@permeus2nd honestly, with the $300 mil budget, $150 mil for marketing, and the 50% theater cut, they'll have to make $900 million to break even... That is pretty absurd.
@@darthsilversith667 What agenda specifically was ham-fisted in this movie? People make this vague claim every time about everything. "Oh, there is a female lead! AGENDA!"
Or "Jones punched a nazi! AGENDA!"
@@darthsilversith667 The problem is that people always make these claims and it has generally become an empty concept. It is all-encompassing and just means whatever people want it to mean when they are offended or don't like something. The people who make theses claims often are just easily offended and see nefarious purpose in every situation.
You didn't mention anything specific, which indeed, by definition, means the claim is vague.
I saw one guy complain about an episode of a show was "too woke" because not enough males were visible in a given scene. For real. This was an actual complaint.
It is like people need a quota system where there can only be X number of Y situations or else it is too woke.
If 3 out of 100 relationships are non conventional, is that woke?
One word... Creed. No, not greed. Creed.
If you want to pass on the torch, hand over the mantel, raise a new successor - you do what Creed did with Rocky.
That film raised Rocky's replacement flawlessly, and not at the expense of Rocky's reputation ether.
Both him and Creed are now largely equals. There was no need to deconstruct the character, if anything he just matured.
I agree like the Indiana Jones 4 they should like it reduced his where is Shia LaBeouf character was supposed to be and made him the Indiana Jones it has him to become the new main character of future movies
I think another thing that does not get talked a lot about is the fact that cost of living and food keeps creeping up while everyone salaries are not. Like a lot more people cannot afford to take a family of 4 to go out to the theaters compared to a decade ago
This is a bigger factor than most people think. Toss on the fact that so many franchises have shit the bed as well. Why risk what little money you got for seeing it in a theatre?
And for the cost of 1-2 family cinema trips you can get a year of D+
People like to see their old heroes. But Lucasfilm has been showing our old heroes as broken failures in order to prop up a brand new hero who didn't earn their place.
Exactly. Deconstruction can work but it's hard to do well. Most people want these heroes to continue their arcs and become matured mentor figures and pass the torch naturally. Making movies is hard but if you're going to sell it to us, it needs to be at a certain level of quality
100%
Franchise fatigue is very real. Hollywood is not giving us anything original, and now with the increasing cost of tickets people are just staying home.
Top Gun Maverick was a great movie that kept the essence of the first movie and told a moving story. Things the Disney star wars and last two Indiana films failed horribly at splitting the community.
It's been confirmed that Indy gets the Jake Skywalker treatment and fans don't want that. From the BBC review - "I'm not sure how many fans want to see Indiana Jones as a broken, helpless old man who cowers in the corner while his patronising god-daughter takes the lead, but that's what we're given, and it's as bleak as it sounds."
That's a very pessimistic interpretation of this film, and not accurate. But it is accurate that he's very old and the movie acknowledges it, even as it has him do more stuff than I can pull off in my fifties. This movie would never have happened 25 years ago because Hollywood has long concluded that the 18-35 age demographic sees films, not the elderly and retired. Today I assume they think there's still money in nostalgic Gen Xers but....yeah, I think they are wrong.
The movie industry is reflecting real life everything's getting repetitive no creativity and laziness
It's why I'm watching more anime and am gravitating to fantasy books. The movie industry is just not putting in enough effort to justify these movies. There are clear exceptions such as Across the spider verse. And Disney is just becoming overly reliant on special effects.
We have reached the age of decline in our current society in terms of art, creativity and progress. This unfortunately will only get worse in time.
@@Morgan-ed2cbidk personally i cant rlly get into anime, not my thing, so instead im gravitating towards older movies. Its a shame that a lot of young ppl end up having to do either of these becuz modern movies just don’t cut it. Back in the day movies had to compete with originality, that was the business model, they had to be better and more original than the other to succeed
@@legozackproduct111yeah and lets be honest, doomsayers are right when they talk about AI. When we get so lazy and uninspired that AI is normalised, and general audiences/consumers dont even care about it, it just means that without demand for good content, there’s gonna be worse and worse stuff. The internet just overwhelms and overstimulates to the extent that there is less art than ‘content’
Not really different from film discussion on CZcams then.
Top Gun Maverick showed us how to treat a legendary character with respect. Maverick wasn’t old, sad, and broken. He didn’t have the young female pilot showing him up and showing him that he wasn’t as awesome as he thought he was. He was still the best.
That’s how they should have treated Luke and treated Indy.
Disney and Lucasfilm deserve everything that happens to them.
Yeah but Tom Cruise is 59, not 80. If they had made an Indy film when he was 59 it would have gone a lot differently. Also Top Gun Maverick is an unusually well-written gem.
Maverick as a character didn’t not change at all between the two movies even though there’s like a 30 year difference. The Movie even comments on this as they note how he’s still a captain even though he should be a general with how many years of service he has but oh you know that dang ole maverick can’t keep out of trouble.
That’s Maverick’s characters, not Indiana Jones. In every single movie he always goes two steps forward and four steps back. No one takes him seriously in any of these movies except for Short Round
You sound like a beta
If Hollywood producers do their usual thing and learn the wrong lesson from whatever situation, "no-one cares about sequels and franchises anymore," wouldn't be the worst thing for them to clutch upon.
On the other hand, in France, we got to see a new version of the Three Musketeers, in two parts, and many (like me), were afraid of WHAT it could bring, because, yeah, ANOTHER adaptation of this beloved, but century old, classic, already put to screen so many times...
But we ended up amazed ; the first movie was filled with talent, new ideas, talented figures (like Mathieu Kassovitz or Eva Green), clear storytelling... All that for less than 80 millions $ (the two movies combined budget).
So yeah, we can put to screen stories and characters already seen many times, but it needs investment, creativity and to tell people that you're going to give them something epic and somehow personnal...
I'd have watched a Phoebe Waller-Bridge movie about her being a funny swashbuckling adventurer. Fleabag is outstanding.
With Indiana Jones, we missed the window. Raiders was in '81, Temple of Doom was in '84, and Last Crusade was in '89. Spielberg could have handed off the reins (James Cameron? David Fincher? Who knows?) so he could focus on Jurassic Park and Schindler's List in 1993 for perhaps a 1994 release. But they didn't. It was treated as a trilogy until 2008 when we were given a film nobody really asked for, and here we are again.
These characters were bigger than life and was a sight of the best people we could be. Seeing heroes like that end with more realistic grumpiness takes away the magic of why we liked them. I get it's an interesting story, but it probably isn't a Star Wars story or an Indiana Jones story. Which stories are best to tell within a story universe?
KK thinks leadership is breaking everything. She forgot she needs to fix it all too.
Disney and Lucasfilm together have never known what they’re doing. Downward spiral since 2013, who is even still surprised?
I personally think Kingdom of the Crystal Skull doesn't deserve the hate that it gets. Sure a lot of farfetched things happen in it (most brought up being Indy getting in a lead refrigerator to survive a nuke test), but it's not like a lot of other farfetched things didn't happen in the other Indy movies; in Temple of Doom when the characters were plummeting hundreds of feet in the air in just a rubber raft and they don't break a single bone in their bodies that gets a pass? Or in the beginning or Lost Arc nobody questions how the traps work with making contact with light.
😂 So true! 😂
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 Or at the very least, any future movies or TV shows taking place after 4 should have followed Indy's son taking up the mantle of the lead character, rather than the character we know and love returning. Would Harrison Ford have returned? Should he? As a supporting character and mentor figure for Indy's son, most definitely. But I think that it is past time for Harrison Ford to pass the torch as it were.
Disney has sucked the heart and soul out of all these franchises. They don't care about good story. They are trying to use formulas of nostalgia and FSN service to make money. They don't understand that the fans won't just show up because they love the characters. Fans want a good story. Something new. I'll see Indy because I do love the character and haven't heard enough to convince me not to go. But I'm going in half expecting to be disappointed.
Its not that old Indie is what's likely pushing fans away from the film, but likely the initial rumours (now somewhat confirmed) that this film is there just to set up Phoebe Waller Bridge's character for her own spin-off show. It just feels like another bait and switch which many fans have grown to hate across multiple franchises.
There's a big fat "I told you so" for disney and Lucasfilm
This could have been so good. I am reminded of the story arc for Last Crusaders and Indiana Jones' relationship with his dad. Both was treated with respect. They didn't trash Indiana's dad. Both were great. It seems Disney can't figure this out. Just trash Indiana doesn't do it. There was definite chemistry and tension/redemption between Harrison's character and Shawn Connery's character. I understand the same can't be said about this film. I think they deleted when Phoebe Waller-Bridge decked Harrison Ford and knocked an 80 year old out cold. Way to go hero..bah.
From a pure fan perspective I'm sure people are tired of the tired heroes from the past being mistreated, but arguably the biggest issue is the budgets that just balloon too much. We've seen bad or mediocre movies do well and earn money but at a certain point if you make a movie too big it's just not gonna make money and I think people using old properties with the expectation that no matter what they do they'll profit is insane
I mean, I think there's several things that led to this. Nostalgia is a double edged sword, people were underwhelmed by the last Indy movie a decade ago, fans have been divided on the often controversial takes on characters they grew up with before, writing for films and shows has been questionable and there's the question of 'Do we even NEED another Indy film?'
Because age and legacy were already covered in The Last Crusade and Crystal Skull...so what does Dial bring to the table that hasn't already been done?
@@BlodhelmI'm seeing many people say this and that really stinks. Another legacy character made to look like crap to push a new character nobody went to the fucking movie to see.
As much as I enjoy going to the cinema, its not generally worth it when i can catch it 4-5 months later at my own leisure
Same. I actually heard nothing but good things about Transformers, but I knew I'd just end up streaming it.
I think the issue is people are simply tired of seeing the same stories and same characters over and over again. We're burned out. like live action remakes of animated films (the little mermaid) or movies utilizing nostalgia as a crutch (the flash, transformers) or bringing back the same characters over and over (fast x, indie, star wars, etc) or utilizing comics.
Hollywood needs to start developing big budget ORIGINAL movies. I don't think they can or they're simply afraid to do so.
Personally, I think it's a lack of trust in the brand - not the brand of Indy or SW, but in Lucasfilm itself. I also don't want to get into politics, but I know that many folks in my social circles have adopted a "wait and see what others say" attitude toward their stuff of late.
Agreed. Lucasfilm doesn't have as much good will and trust as nearly a decade ago
@@grawman67 this is what happens when you choose ideology over quality, it's blatantly obvious but people always avoid talking about it because they're afraid of the liberal mob
Audiences have been burnt out with this constant nostalgia bombing, the only surprise is that it took this long
@@warlordofbritannia Agreed, especially when it's so obvious and manipulative.
Yeah definitely same here
Last Crusade was a great film and the perfect ending for the character
I think where Top Gun Maverick succeeded where these other films fail is that it was sold as Tom Cruise flying jets and it delivered exactly that
I’ve been having this debate with people for a while now where someone will try and say “movie X is really good because it made a ton of movie, you’re just a hater that can’t handle it!” And id try to explain that in cases where audiences don’t like a new entry into a series that was on hiatus or an entry that isn’t directly related to a broader series you won’t see the disapproval at the box office. Instead you’ll see the disapproval in the next movie where the people who didn’t like the new entry will refuse to see its follow up and suddenly a movie that theoretically did really good will have a follow up that tanks. It seems that this phenomenon has reached a tipping point where audiences just assume “block buster” movies are bad until proven otherwise since so many recent movies have been mediocre at best.
I’ll be interested to see in ~5 or so years how the writers strike has affected many of these titles, the issue dates back to long before the strike but this summer has been brutal for a lot of studios whereas it’s generally just been the most hardcore fans and cinephiles that have been upset with the decline in movie quality.
The best thing that will come out of the writer's strike, besides the collapse of the corrupt WGA, is studios using it as an excuse to cancel or write off bad projects currently in development or production. Force majeure, it's called. Unfortunately, good projects will also be canned for the same reason.
Film marketing departments should be able to sell anything but they always stink at it. Whether a film it great or rots, the folks at studio and distributors advertising them should all be fired for every poor opening weekend.
one issue that no one seems to bring up is that all these actors age getting old and there arent really any replacements for them
To me lucasfilm Disney Marvel all of them are the true definition of insanity making the same damn product over and over and over again expecting a different god damn reaction from the audience
The writing for beloved franchises has been horrid. Combine that with leadership who's only goal is to milk the fanbase dry without realizing that making good movies will bring in revenue and you have the current state of Hollywood. The people in charge of these movies need to care about the IP beyond just a paycheck.
You're literally talking like you're a secret agent in a spy-thriller who's trying to uncover "some big mystery". You just don't like stuff, it's not very deep, really.
@@MaxSterling01You have to remember the movie was also sponsored by the US-military in some way.
This pains me so much. Indiana jones is so near and dear to my heart growing up and part of me wants to support it. Then the other part knows how soulless and full of “the message” this movie will be.
Unless they paid for or rented actual relics I have no earthly idea what the hell they spent $300m on. The effects look as if they were done by a blind baby. I’m so confused this has to be money laundering somehow.
@@cmedtheuniverseofcmed8775 Yes, precisely this. It's also a pattern with just about every Lucasfilm movie released, starting with Rogue One: reshoots, whether it's just the ending or roughly the entire movie. The only exception being The Last Jedi, which was accepted on the 1st draft. This is incompetence.
Possibly. I wonder how much the deepfaking cost on its own though. ILM seems to be hard at work at perfecting the technology; and for the sake of Star Wars, I hope they do.
Oh ok Thank you both
It's damn about time that people would vote with their wallets. I hope to see the same effect in gaming industry.
Exactly. I have seen 3 films so far and they were all only after I confirmed through like-minded reviewers such as this channel that they were worth watching. They were: Mario, GotG3 and Spider-Man. I enjoyed them all.
@@baahcusegamer4530 Yea this fomo of missing out and need to see a movie or to play a game on day one because ... is just stupid.
I think part of it is that people want their heroes to go out on top, or as respected mentors passing the torch. They don't want a new hero mocking and trashing the old guy. Phoebe Waller -Bridge seems spectacularly miscast - it would be like casting JIm Carrey or the Rock as the new person. Indy should have been a distinguished professor with a study lined with books, he's widely respected, but there's something missing... It works better when tragedy hits in front of us - maybe have his son die in Cambodia while trying to save priceless treasures from the Khmer Rouge, so his guilt upsets his life. Don 't just make him aloser - it won't make his co-star shine brughter.
Kathleen Kennedy wanted her to be Indy's replacement. Chapek forced her to reshoot the movie before he was ousted to get rid of the Indy time travel erasure/replacement.
Phoebe also fits Kathy's pattern of hiring British brunette women in key- or starring roles, because that's how she likes to see herself: a posh British lady. Either that or whoever she thinks is popular at the time.
@@justmike3018you can’t even commit to your own dumbass theory lol
@@justmike3018 Do you have proof that the ending was reshot?
@@officialmonarchmusic Nope. Just rumors, a denial from Mangold, and a statement or two from Ford that inadvertently confirms the rumor that they changed the ending.
I think pop culture is driven by the 15-35 age group and they have grown up with entertainment at there finger tips. Franchises/sequels are not assured just by being, you must give the public what they are looking for or they are not coming.
Everyone knew this was gonna be horrible from a mile away. I don't understand why they thought this was a good idea
They were hoping to ride on the name alone.
I feel like a change of leadership is due at lucasfilm. After the cluster dump that was the sequels, the drop in quality of writing in the star wars shows, and now this movie, fans will come after them for failing them too many times
For me as an artist myself (painter), I just don't want to see poorly written stories. True, a lot of art is subjective but the poorly written characters, bad dialogue, and massive plotholes and more are just tiring to me now. If you want my money, be better. There is a lot of content out there and you will have to earn my money and my respect....
I hate the unnecessary goofy nonsense in todays films.
I think the whole notion of art being subjective gets taken out of meaning way too much. Just because something is subjective doesn't make it as legitimate as something thats more objective. Ppls opinions on entertainment are subject,but trash is trash. Just because someone likes eating trash doesn't mean its good for them. 2 things can be true at once. Many art forms can tell different things and both be beautiful,but a lot of hollywood garbage is still just shit. shit is shit.
With ticket prices for movies at well over 10 dollars in the US, is it any wonder box office sales aren't very good? I would guess that many people have decided just to wait until these movies come to streaming services/dvd. Maybe the metrics of success are outdated.
This is gonna sound random, but I've always loved your intro music and outro music/clip. Please never change that.
I watch eck for the dog. I love that clip.
3:13 also the rumours that the hold point of the film is to replace Indy won’t go down well though luckily it sounds like they rolled back from the idea that they were going to completely erase Indy from the timeline, as bad ideas go that’s right up there with the titanic and the Hindenburg “”yes this balloon we are filling with highly flammable gas let’s coat it in thermite to stop it from catching fire”” so let’s be grateful that that rumour was wrong or they reshot the ending.
Personally I despite not liking the crystal skull I liked its ending as it gave Indy his happy ending.
Even before the pandemic the theater experience has been growing less enjoyable. Nothing ruins a movie for me when I see people go there and instead of watching the movie they are staring at their phones.
It's this for me. I want to see Indy, but I'll probably wait until it is on D+. Going to the theater just isn't a draw, I can get great picture and sound at home without the negatives of theater experience.
That’s why I sit in the handicap seats away from everyone
It's crazy to hear Indiana Jones failing at the box office. We all knew fast and furious x was going to fail, but it surprising to see this one do the same. I guess I was one of the few that saw the new Indiana Jones movie, and didn't react the same way as when I heard fast x was coming out. Indiana Jones I was kind of excited for, fast and furious was just a roll of the eyes followed by questioning myself "really?".
Me sitting by watching Disney and Lucasfilm slowly collapse under the weight of over a decade of their own failures:
"You get what you fucking deserve!!" 😂😂
And the people who like what you don't, who wake up and find out, that what they spent time, passion and money on suddenly collapsed because of your ignorance, do they also "gEt WhAt ThEy F****nG dEsErVe"?
There's a lot of reasons, cost of living internationally is driving people to avoid spending money where they don't have to. People have multiple streaming services so they have entertainment at home, the cost of cinema tickets is also up.
Then there's creative reasons. People being over sequels, reviewers over hyping or over hating things, series wanting to pivot so hard that they don't feel like the same characters.
It's just a rough time all round for everything at the moment
Kathleen Kennedy: "Prepare for trouble!"
Phoebe Waller-Bridge: "And make it double!"
Something has gone deeply, deeply wrong in both Hollywood and the gaming space. Some say it's DEI, others say it's a 'competency crisis', I honestly don't know yet what it is. Games are worse than ever and release unfinished, scripts are worse than ever and CGI releases unfinished. This is only going to get worse with AI and the WGA strike. Legacy media is finally reaching it's end and nothing stands to replace it. In other era's this would be a changing of the guard, where new franchises step up, but the current system hasn't produced any new franchises. The effects of the current downturn will be absolutely disastrous for the economy down the line - Disney going under practically sinks Florida's GDP along with it. This is going to lead to a very nasty spiral where companies rely more on AI and etc to save costs, resulting in more bombs, resulting in more cost saving. Very interested in seeing how all this plays out
Some intern; "What if we made a movie that wasn't Indiana Jones or Star Wars."
Lucasfilm executive; "What if we what now?"
Well that was the case prior to Disney with movies like Willow. But Disney bought LucasFilm to basically pump out Star Wars stuff year after year so yeah
I'd say that it's two things: First, we want well-written stories, not badly-written trash. Second, we want to see our heroes triumphant, or at least content and happy, not insulted and with all character growth thrown away to make some nobody that we care nothing whatsoever about look good.
Who'd would have thought that audience's wouldn't want to see hero get sidelined in their own movie? I mean, they expect us to consume bad content and pay money for it.
Indiewire reported a budget 295 million before Promotion and Advertising, that projected opening is disastrous.The break even point is probably between 850 to 900 depending on PA budget.
The math isn't that hard. Here are the factors.
Start with the budget. Add 50% for marketing and distribution (50% is usually a bit low, but it's fine for an estimate).
Now, the theaters get roughly 50% of the ticket sales. So subtract 50% of the reported box office receipts, because the studio never saw that money.
This leaves you with a simple calculation of 2.5 times the budget in order to simply break even. Anything over 2.5 times the budget is profit.
Disney admitted that it lost money on Solo. They are legally required to report these things to their investors once a year. Yet the receipts say they made 1.4 times the budget.
In fact, Disney admitted that they lost money on Shang Chi. And that movie made 2.9 times the budget (which means the budget was probably under reported, or they spent more on advertising than they should have).
But for simplicity's sake, just multiply the budget of any movie by 2.5, and you will know if it made money or not.
I'm not gonna protray Cathy like a villian but just like Bonnie Ross with 343 she is clearly not the right person for the job and her decision have definitely led Lucasfilms to thus point
I think there is something to be said about economic issues that movie studios are not in control of. For example, I feel like things like inflation could be preventing people from going to theaters at this time. I really think we should stop looking at box office sales as an indicator of if a film is successful economically, as it seems more and more likely that films are going to have to rely on revenue over time.
I find I'm sick of having my fandom taken for granted. I won't watch the lastest whatever just because its got a brand name on it - the branding no longer guarantees quality, so why should I give it my time or money? I hope the stuidos figure this out and start giving us new, intersting ideas and stories again. I'm desperate for something genuinely creative.
Someone really needs to look into these massive price tags on shitty movies when directors were able to produce masterpieces for 1/10th the price over four decades ago. It just really reeks of something fishy but I'm not 100% sure exactly what it is, money laundering? Burning legacy companies to the ground? Industry bureaucracy inflated to the point of bursting because everyone needs to pay their secretary's secretary's secretary?
I think it's a few things: CG is expensive (practical effects are too), the focus on large interconnected universes with so many characters, and also that money is worth less now than it was 40 years ago. There are probably plenty of other things at play though. Like you also mentioned, bureaucracy could be a part of it. And it's possible some productions here and there have laundering. It's not impossible.
At this point I don’t even want to watch any product by Disney.
At some point the product would eventually turn out bad
I would have disagreed maybe seven or eight years ago. Now? I couldn't agree more. I find Disney products that I like to be the exception and not the rule.
DISNEY SUCKS NOW. IT WILL NEVER BE THE DISNEY WE GREW UP WITH PERIOD.
I think shows like Halo and Witcher: Blood Origin play a key part of people not willing to give something a view just because of the IP. We've been burned enough, and now the movie/show studios are feeling the heat.
If anything, the studio--via Kathleen Kennedy--have TOO MUCH control over LucasFilm. I know Harrison Ford will take just about any paycheck that's offered to him, but he really should have rejected this one from everything I've heard. Kennedy has already shown she's bent on defiling every hero Spielberg and Lucas gave us, and Ford signing on effectively helped her do that--just like he did in THE FORCE AWAKENS.
I think I've only seen one of these big nostalgia projects pay off once in recent memory, and that was Picard Season 3. And THAT worked because, quite honestly, the Next Generation had lacked closure for so long that simply providing it in the same vein as 'The Undiscovered Country' did for the TOS crew resonated.
But Indiana Jones never needed that. The movies were all self-contained, and existed in a certain chaotic historical landscape. The same with Star Wars or the Marvel Universe movies. They all never needed more closure. New, fresh stories in those universes? Sure, but those needed to be able to stand on their own.
I think that's why things like the Mandalorian tend to land so much better, despite all its flaws, because it's NEW. Something different in the same universe, a different angel, viewpoint on that universe. It can use Luke Skywalker and the events of the Rebellion as references, but they don't work as a crutch for it. Same with Strange New Worlds, which really has to stand on its own, even with the legacy characters it has, because it explores them from a new angle.
Nostalgia doesn't work the way Hollywood wants it to. At least not anymore.
Who TF let KK remain in charge after the Willow debacle?
First she tanked the SW franchise, then brought back Willow (to tank it) and now Indiana Jones?
Couldn't agree more. I know there are others at fault too but Lucasfilm has continued to do perpetually worse every year since the buyout. SW got worse (we have a few good games, comics, and novels but that's mostly it), Willow came back just to flip due to how bad most people see it, and now Indy. I really hope Dial of Destiny is good but the track record makes me not want to give them my money.
I even forgot willows existed
She hasn't tanked shit stop spewing bs. Star Wars is doing decent and new content is either great critically or great commercially.
Seems to me that when you ruin so many beloved characters and franchises with new movies that belittle and replace them, you shouldn't be surprised when people start refusing to watch them.
This.
Disney’s recent releases have seemed to have a lack of soul. They are just obligations and have no heart these days. So why spend money to watch an uncommitted movie in such a time of inflation?
You're not in the authority, your word is not fact.
@@Lr.Laecro.Lirus3445 that’s why it’s called an opinion bruv.
@@c.j.fedderson5541 It just sounded like you think it as a fact.
the worst part about current disney lucasfilm for me is them ruining favourite characters. we all know what happend with luke, leia and han. and now even Indy gets the same treatment. and the worst part is once all this disney bullsh"t will eventually (hopefully) be over, the actors will all be to old or even will have passed away for them to rebuild their characters.
i find it so sad for ford to play his favourite character to play for the last time and knowing it will flop
Nobody wants to explore the fantasy of failure. They keep going there, hoping the audience identifies with the new hero/ heroine but if that new character just ‘takes’ the mantle with no journey to back it up, the audience only identifies with the one they’re killing off; because that’s where all the previous narrative points to. There’s hope for Star Wars in Asoka; the back story is there.
Eckharts, not sure if you watched them or not, but the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles, or, at least, the episode that has something like “the Peacock’s Eye” in the title, is pretty enjoyable.
No the real reason is people don’t care about this “strong woman that needs to be better and no flaws than her make counterparts ” trope bonus she had to talk down about her male counterparts any chance she can get and remind you that she is strong in some way trope. Even some women in holy wood are tired of it as they don’t relate to that type of role. Women can be feminine and strong in their own way instead of holywoods “male 2.0”
Where does that footage at the very beginning, where it looks like G Lucas is shouting at someone to get out of a meeting, come from?
For some reason, Hollywood thinks Fleabag is the next big thing.
Lucasfilm simply lost the trust of its fans. If the Star Wars sequels hadn't happened the way they did, I would probably have preordered tickets weeks ago.
But given their recent track record, I'll wait for the ratings. Audience Scores specfically
It also doesn’t help people just don’t seem to be watching movies in cinemas anymore
Every time I go, there's at least a handful of people who are texting with their phones at max brightness, parents bringing their crying toddlers, or someone hacking up a fucking lung. Doesn't matter where I go or how often these people get told to knock it off by theater staff. It's just not worth spending the price of admission to leave the theater annoyed. I'd rather lose a small amount of 'immersion' to experience the movie in my own time and in an environment I can control.
@@cjbrun I'm kinda in the same boat. It's becoming especially hard since I've been upgrading my home setup in the past year. I've got a 7.2 ch sound system hooked up to a 77" OLED. Most of the time when I go to the theatre the screen and projector have noticeable flaws which make me wonder why I don't wait until the film is out on 4k and watch it at home.
IMO, that’s because the quality of movies in cinemas these days is drastically worse than years past. There’s a reason indie films are winning best picture at the Oscars nearly every year now
Personally, it’s a problem I have with a lot of things coming out of Hollywood these past 10-20 years. They’re relying too much on the title and/or franchise to carry the film. They see these franchises more like cash cows, assuming fans will want to see them because of the franchise and not really care whether it’s good or not. And it’s not limited to Lucasfilm. One that comes to mind was the “reboot phase” Hollywood went through a decade ago where they thought that remaking films that were hits in the early 90’s and earlier, as well as making sequels to them, was a good idea but they mostly failed. I saw both original Clash of the Titans as well as the remake and despite how crappy the special flecks were of the original, I enjoyed that one waaaaay more than the remake (I will admit that part of the problem is that the remake butchered the IRL myth it was supposed to be based on but that’s besides the point). Then there’s the fact that you can only put out so much of a franchise before fans start getting tired of it. I know I got burned out by all the Marvel films right after the final Avengers film came out. Fast and Furious on the other hand, I kinda stopped after the final film that Paul Walker starred in after his death. I did see the film that came after that one but a Fast film without him just didn’t seem right (not counting Tokyo Drift).
#askeck #AskThreepio Was the Death Star shot that was being aimed at yavin 4 a full power shot like the one used against Alderaan or a low power shot like the one used against scarif? Cause personally, it just doesn’t make sense to use a full power shot just to wipe out the Yavin 4 rebel base
Lore ship Versus video request:
Resurgent vs. Starhawk
Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing
World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship
Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail
Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version)
Keldabe vs. ISD II
MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer
Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class
Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser
EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator
Praetor vs. Subjugator
EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent
Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III
I used to agree around the late 2000s and early 2010s but do think things got better for a while. Then the 2010s continued on...We have amazing stand alone films like the Lighthouse or Baby Driver but a lot of older franchises are either rebooted badly or brought back without the care they deserve. We have exceptions and it seems to be getting better (especially for games) but there was a dark period. I remember really feeling the reboot fatigue around Clash of the Titans and Dredd and the like.
Indiana Jones was peak when he looked for the Holy Grail.
You can't top that. That is a pinnacle of story
Where is that scene of older Luke on the Falcon from?
I also blame Lucasfilm’s marketing of the film. I remember seeing a bit of some lack luster reactions to it.
As superficial as this sounds, I was sorta turned off when I heard the Rolling Stones song and main theme in electronic form in the trailers.
While I still plan to see the film, the advertisement failed to get me excited.
It's weird because they're shelling out big money to plaster one of the NY airports with Indy 5 ads.
This is a sequel-trilogy level event for Lucasfilm(owned by Disney).
I think it's we're on the down tail of the nostalgia curve. Those of us this was "meant for" are now over saturated with both nostalgia and increasingly lazy nostalgia, and younger people don't give AF about Indiana Jones.
The Critical Drinker talked about how much this movie needs to even break even. A 300 million production budget means at least 150 million marketing. Plus, the theaters take half. That means it needs $900,000,000 to just break even. A $60-70 million opening weekend means this movie will likely lose hundreds of millions of dollars
And the 300m doesn't include the cost of reshooting, which likely balloons the cost up to 500m. This means, with marketing and theatre take, Indy 5 needs to make 1.25bn to break even. It's going to bomb hard.
That guy is such a bigot though. He'll trash anything that doesn't fit his bigoted views.
What’s your thoughts on kiwis?
The fruit or the bird?
@@felps_4500 kiwi.
@@8ball733 Yes.
The major problem is they did the whole hero confronting his legacy thing in Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for better or worse. I really wish they just had him recast like James Bond, Batman, or Superman, and kept him in the 1930s as “glob hoping adventure man”. Doing that wouldn’t have taken anything away from Harrison Ford and the original 3 any more than Daniel Craig takes away from Sean Connery.
I'm going to assume part of the problem was a lack of good advertising for it. Like this is literally the first I've heard of it
Saw the movie last night and it was pretty good. The issue with Indy now though is that its for old people and old people either don't rush out to the cinema opening weekend or don't go at all. My audience last night was definitely 90% over 40.
Also every single studio, not just Lucasfilm, are spending WAY WAY too much on their movies.
People want to see good story, not seeing things they already know.
If some franchise did worked, it's not because wanted to see that univers again, but because they knew that that universe was giving good stories which is rarer today...
Lot of movies are lacking in ticket sales. Lot of people can't afford to see a movie right now IMO.
Heck, I haven't seen a movie in theaters in about two years now.
I think this movie will be really polarising in terms of popularity. People will hate it or love it, just like with Indy 4.
As far as I'm concerned, more people are becoming aware of how bad modern films are. The film industry is honestly so abysmal right now, as there is very little that's actually good, at least in the mainstream side of things. I just hope there will soon be a big turn around in the industry and we start seeing better quality films rather than soulless cash-grabs.
At least DnD was fun
a disaster for Lucasflim? Really.....you mean like Rise of Skywalker wasn't a little hint that Lucasfilm has lost their way and has no idea what they're doing....?
Its pointless to go to theaters to watch a movie, They literally come out like a month maybe 2 later.. and I can buy it and watch it at home
Its not a great metric anymore
Top Gun: Maverick really is the best example of resurrecting an old movie with the original cast, though TG was never intended as a franchise. They handled all of the legacy characters in the movie very well, contrast that to what Lucasfilm's been doing and yeah.
2:07 I think people are becoming extremely aware that just because an entry about their favorite character or franchise is being produced by Hollywood, doesn’t mean it will be a true or well written entry. All they need is money and nepotism to be up next to to taint the legacy of a long-standing character, and it needs to be evaluated wether the project is actually made with passion and intention before money is spent on seeing it.
For the sake of keeping up with Indys character, I'll probably watch the movie, but I can't say that I was hyped or excited for a new Indiana Jones movie. Indy is a great character, and Harrison Ford in a phenomenal actor, but I've always felt that Indiana Jones as an IP was critically under sold, at least in terms of post OT media.
Most people simply don't trust Lucasfilm under Disney to make good movies. They've produced dud after dud, show a blatant disrespect to the source material, shoehorn divisive ideology into their content and directly insult large portions of the fanbase. People want to be entertained by good movies and TV shows, not lectured on what a terrible person by poorly written content that insults the heroes they grew up with.
all of that is true except divisive ideology
sounds about white
Well said!
@analtubegut66 "The Force is Female" or what about "Reimagine Tomorrow"
You are 100% correct.
What is Disney's board of directors doing?
After failing with Cheapbag, are they really so incompetent to ignore Kennedy?
I personally tend not to trust reviews, especially early ones. I'll see it, and if I like it then it's good lol. I'm mostly excited for my younger brother to see it, he's a bigger Indy fan than me! We'll see how it goes.