Who Are The Four Descenders? [Genshin Impact Lore and Theory]
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Crash and burn, me thinks
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Alice is definitely the only person that fits the bill of a Descender
Hoyoverse's Collaboration Chief and Professional World Hopper.
Or she just like the sibling who was born in Teyvat but can travel to other worlds. Recently finded CBT1 items show traveller use unique ascension item called “coronation of primordial archon” . And the chinese 原神 basically translate to “primordial/orginal GOD”.
So the sibling may be the first being in teyvat, then leaved teyvat. That why traveller can use all the elements and also affect by forbidden knowledge.
@@user-znick87 but they are removed for a reason
@@user-znick87 I actually posted something similar but different interpretation, look at the Genshin logo and you'll literally see Paimon's halo on top of the words Genshin, which straight up tells you that Paimon is the Genshin, Original God, which means she is Phanes.
Also for Alice, I think she's more an "Ascender" than Descender, she travels to other worlds from Teyvat.
…Is she? How come there might be other people in teyvat who are likely of the same race as her? E.g pucinella, nahida etc. I think it’s more likely that Rhinedottir is a descender - there may be less information connecting her to other worlds, but there’s also nothing suggesting she isn’t, to my knowledge
One thing I want to point out that Nahida never stated that there were only four descenders, she just said that the traveler is 4th. It could very well be that the Fatui could have counted a 5th, 6th and so on if there were any
technically, aloy should be a descender too and she arrived after us?
@@firby7341 aloy isnt a canon character
@@azelfxv not gonna lie though, I'd like to see how she would manage against the Sustainer as she gets pulled into Teyvat.
Alice mentioned that Aloy came after the traveler so unless they count Aloy there shouldn't be anyone else
Yeah in Aloy's trailer she says that the last person who visited Teyvat did so 500 years prior to her. Coincidence: I THINK NOT :)
Alice is kinda obvious. She has likely been inspired by the actual Alice from the fairytale. I won’t be surprised if we get the Cheshire eventually, too.
Not really obvious. What if she is from this world but learned how to travel to other worlds.
Well Alice is more likely an ascender since she has a child in this world and has also traveled around teyvat in the past and yet is still here in teyvat now. Plus she’s an elf and we know teyvat has elves cuz of pulcinella and layla also having the elf ears. Nahida doesn’t count cuz we know she’s a branch of an irminsul tree. Unless it somehow turns out that elves are very closely related to irminsul which would explain why nahida has those ears but anyway.
She learn about Radio Comunicator device from other world, even tho she use magic instead of Radio Wave transmition. she even could know the existence of an Air Plane O-O)
Also dont forget Aloy actualy also exist and can be considered as a decender also, even tho she was actualy a Joke for a Collaboration. but still, Hehe
@@yannlee7821 This is what I think as well. Alice is from Teyvat, and she can travel to other worlds. So the opposite of a descender.
Cheshire is Diona when she finally destroys the wine industry
I've always thought of Celestia as an organisation or place, moreso than a person. It makes the vision distribution issue make more sense (individual archons can influence or determine but not take credit for vision distribution, that goes to Celestia Inc) and also gives a bigger imposing stake on the whole Fatui mission.
Probably.
Seeing the names of the archons are based from lesser royal ranking demons of ars goetia. There's a strong suggestion that there are a group much higher than the archons.
In ars goetia , beelzebub , morax , barbatos , buer and focalor are names of dukes ranking demons.
Paimon is one of the demon king much higher than them. And in demon king statuses paimon is the 2nd most powerful.
There's Purson , Asmodeus , Beleth , Balaam , Zagan , Belial and the highest Baal.
We already know that Paimon and Celestia/unknown god is one and the same. The map and placing of celestia's floating domain is a clue.
In Ars goetia , it is stated that Paimon's domain is in the northwest of hell. Which the same place where you can find celestia's floating domain in game.
Its at the center of whatever north of sumeru is. Possibly fountaine?
My theory is that we will get to see these higher ranking gods in the future. And maybe we already know two members of these group.
Istaroth may have a connection with the demon king Baal. In ars goetia Baal's domain is in the east of hell.
What is in the east in game? Just water right? Except for one tiny island where you find the time dial connected to istaroth.
@@maosama3695 well according to data mining leaks sustainer of heavenly principles or unknown god was named as asmodeus
@@saaishpanhalkar6714 interesting. So maybe after we complete the 7 archons we'll meet those higher than them.
So theres a huge changmce that the title of heavenly principles isnt tied to one person and possible there is a group of old gods.
I thought celestia was a place. You know how they say vision holders can ascend TO celestia and become an archon. Not too sure though, im not a huge lore reader
I believe that Celestia operates like an aristocracy lab and the continent of Teyvat is being used as one of its subjects, perhaps it was once part of the old world trying to maintain control of Teyvat being the new world, idk.
I'm pretty sure in the future, maybe in Fontaine, a Gnosis will be destroyed, which will get Celestia's attention and give us more Lore about the Descenders. They wouldn't introduce that possibility and do nothing with it, it's one hell of a Chekhov Gun to just ignore.
I think it will happen in Natlan because of its War like theme. And even in the prevail trailer we hear that the hydro archon (Focalor) knows "not to make enemy of the divine."
I hope I'm still playing by that time..
@@shllyk yoo that would be nuts ngl
@@shllyk With the heavenly principles it would be more of a massacre. I believe she is even more powerful than when she was against the twins.
But celestia is paimon.
It's also possible that one of the descenders is a Fatui or one of the Harbingers, since they knew that Descenders exists; assuming that Nahida got the information from them in exchange for her Gnosis.
well it can be ,,The Jester,, Pierro himself. he's the 1st harbinger and the strongest. so i think he's the most sus of them. but i can be wrong.
Nahida got the information from irminsul, i have no idea why she thought it was from the fatui
@@MrMan-np9jg irminsul has fatui records and data, i thought that was obvious?
Technically everyone in teyvet seems to know about us being Outlanders
@@xeacarons weird clothing
For the third descender our only shot is to list down every mysterious characters so:
1. Alice
2. Skirk
3. Columbina (most likely imo)
4. Paimon
5. Dainsleif (doubt)
6. Rhinedotter
7. If the abyss is actuallly an entity
8. Da Wei the Unusual Hilichurl
Well it can't be Paimon because she forgot about Greater Lord Rukkhadevata. That shows that she is from Teyvat.
My bet is that it's probably a character who hasn't been revealed yet
You forgot about someone.....
Aloy
@@dionasnightcore738 Aloy is a collab character so she shouldn't be included.
@@zamargad8780
She exists therefore she's in the running.
for alice it’s also notable that she uses the phrase “crossing the rubicon”, which would make literally no sense unless she either was from our world or travelled through it (i can’t imagine mhy would make an oversight that egregious). this also explains why she would know what idols were and why she would want to start her weird little pop star group
well, crossing the rubicon means no going back, what happens will always happen, sort of thing. So if that's the case Alice can't go back.
@@rinzzler366 what i mean is that the expression is based on the real life event of julius caesar crossing the rubicon river, something she wouldn’t know about unless she was from our world
@@heyitzmae when did alice use this expression, jw?
@@will5220 I'm not sure, but I assume it would be in Aloy's trailer. better to wait for poop-fart-daily to confirm
@@will5220 zhiqiong says in the chasm quest that alice taught her it
I think there are some holes here:
1. Fatui counts Four Descenders, us being the Fourth. We don't know if they count our appearance before Khaenri'ah disaster as base point, or when the game starts in Mondstadt as our first appearance, which means looking for other Descenders may be more difficult
2. We don't know if Fatui and Nahida know of existence of Primordial One. This also means that we have no idea if Primordial One and Heavenly Principles are the same entity or different. I also lean towards Fatui having no knowledge about Enkanomiya - the only enemies we met there were Abyssals and Vishaps, no Fatui in sight.
3. One character that was not mentioned that has high chance of being a Descender is Columbina/Damselette - as per Nahida, top three Fatui Harbingers have power on par with gods and she is ranked third. Childe also mentions in his voice line about Damselette that there is something not right about her (I have theory that she is either Descender or Last Seelie).
Personally I think the Descenders that Fatui know of are: Heavenly Principles, Columbina, Alice and Traveler (and Aloy if we want to count her in).
As for Columbina being Last Seelie theory - during last part of Aranyaka quest we learn that seelies we see are just husks of Seelie that lived long time ago. All seelie got cursed to become husks once they fall in love with humans (I suspect by Celestia). We also learn from Arama that last surviving Seelie that was in the desert befriended Rukkhadevata and Scarlet King. This gives Columbina strong motives for joining Fatui against Heavenly Principles - revenge for other seelie and for death of Rukkhadevata.
Funnily enough, in comedia dell'arte Columbina is wife of Pierro and falls in love with Arlecchino to betray Pierro. But in Genshin some of the aspects of comedia dell'arte characters are reversed (ie Il Capitano in comedia dell'arte being braggart, deceitful and vainglorious is completely flipped). So this could also mean that Columbina never fell in love with human therefore keeping her form.
it would be really interesting if the flower goddess turned out to be the seelie that befriended rukkha and deshret, but then if columbina was a seelie that would mean she was the flower goddess. however, i'm not sure if columbina can be a seelie cuz seelies have horns and i don't remember seeing horns on columbina in winter night's lazzo.
I would imagine the heavenly principles and phanes are the same cus the sustainers portal had the same shape as the goblet artifact slot and those artifact slots represent phanes and his shades meaning susatiner is probably a shade while the heavenly principles in the primordial one
So Columbina comes from an entire race of Descenders?
@@cantthinkofaname7182 I have a theory that Columbina might actually be *from* Celestia but having been cast down, being Genshin's version of Lucifer
I think 4 descenders are unknown god, traveler, abyss and someone relate to or paimon
I do wonder about the sibling. According to Nahida the Sibling "suddenly appeared" during the fall of Khaenria. So either something happened to them at that moment to allow the Irminsul to keep records of them, or maybe the Sibling didn't exist before that. Also, I do believe the Traveller is right to question their memories. There is just a lot of things that don't currently make sense with the Sibling. Why would Khaenria affect them so much, a nation from a world they supposedly just saw for the first time? Why would they leave the Traveller and go on to wander on their own? And not once, but twice? The Sibling claims to care about the Traveller, but their actions don't really reflect that.
Maybe when like Ei was talking about the sacred Sakura. “As I was there, it’s like it appeared in just thin air” so maybe abyss sib went back in time or something
@@relaxingrain3698 I think lumine existed before unknown god(the first descender ) and before even that tree as well (sorry I am Lazzy to write down my full theory but if u wana hear then just tell me )
@@relaxingrain3698 I think lumine existed before unknown god(the first descender ) and before even that tree as well (sorry I am Lazzy to write down my full theory but if u wana hear then just tell me )
@@jokertm6889 tell me then
@@jokertm6889 No..Unknown God existsted since ancient time. i don't want to tell more because of big spoiler.
I was thinking maybe the sibling we’ve met is actually a copy since we’ve seen a lot of that in genshin with Albedo, Raiden, and now Dottore, so that’s why they’re “from Teyvat”, and the real one is still sealed up somewhere. I hadn’t considered irminsul information being messed with at all when we literally JUST saw that happen so that’s also totally possible lol so many questions😭
Yeah I think Irminsul mighve been messed with, but it'd be crazy if the twin was a copy
Keep in mind that we could be fooled by Nahida too. Remember that Great Lord was literally erased from the memory of the world. Could then Nahida be forced to remember some things? Contract, perhaps? The one Morax spoken about, that binds them to Celestia's will or something. Hence she could lie or half-lie, or keep silent about something, making us think wrong. Also, Time-Travel could easily make sibling 'belong' to tevyat, I think. I mean, if we remember Dain's quote from Tevyat Chapter Road "..then the threads of all fate will be yours to re-weave", souns really like time-travel. I always thought that siblings are trapped in a time-loop where one dies and another travels in the past in desperate hope to fix everything(by everything I mean not letting his sibling die, naturally). Thus both Aether and Lumine are canon as both Abyss and Traveler. Because they are literally BOTH, in one or another part of time-loop xd
No this is too much of a infomation dump to be a lie
You make some very compelling points.
I hope we’re not getting any time shenanigans like that. That would be to much of a headache to figure out.
Nahida is sus!
Aether is canon. You can see genshin video where only lumine been shown as abyss sibling
Alice looks like a combination of Yoda, Good Witch of the North and Dumbledore, with a dash of Mad Scientist
Tbh I always felt that the living abyss granted abyss sibling abyssal physiology to integrate them into the Genshin verse so the irminsul could not record them as an outlander
Ngl this is close to my own theory about the abyss twin. I’m basing this mostly on the fact that the goo in the chasm can give the recipient memories that aren’t theirs
My personal first contender for the third descender contender is Rhinedotter/Gold. She came into teyvat and threw a wrench into teyvat's laws for the sole reason of trolling everyone and the previous descenders.
The revelation of the Irminsul backdoor makes me worried about the future of the story. Everything becomes fallible and rewritable. I swear, if we get a "and it was all just a dream ending"...
it can happen. since the last chapter is "A dream yet to be dreamt"
it happens when writers get tangled in their own overly complicated plots. Because all in the game is structured, conceived and built to make the player waste as much time as possible (we farm flowers and mint, Hoyo farms our time), they kept adding layers upon layers upon layers to dilute 1 minute of story into 50 hours. The final result is a barrage of plot holes and discrepancies, like we see the siblings arriving at the same time, but one wakes up 500 years later, while the other is recorded as a being from Teyvat, but the other is an alien. They just lost track of what they're doing.
@@RejectedInch I think there really is something important with the abyss twin originating from this world and that their history is detailed but so far still comprehensible, but I do have to agree that there’s an overwhelming amount of information, and that some of it doesn’t even have to be mentioned at the current time. Sure they’re fun and all, I myself enjoy theorizing, but there’s just so much on the ancient history that adding the fact that the irminsul can basically erase branches and change history makes all these notes just so much less important because no one knows how much is true. Thats my only gripe with the irminsul lore
Don't read the dream solvent description
>like we see the siblings arriving at the same time, but one wakes up 500 years later, while the other is recorded as a being from Teyvat, but the other is an alien. They just lost track of what they're doing.
Or maybe those are just important plot points that are going to be revealed at a later point of the story, and not in the middle of it.
I'm surprised, since you mentioned the Seelie, no mention at all of the Outlander who married a Seelie. They're currently pretty firmly penciled in as the "second" Decender for me, considering with how little we know about them they could also be one and the same with either the heavenly principal's or primordial one.
Also no, Before Sun and Moon doesn't say who won the war between the First That Came and the Second. We just "know" said war ripped apart the heavens and the earth, and then the people of Enkanomiya fell into the Dark Sea. They have no idea of the outcome just that their gods had "abandoned" them outside Istaroth.
Also it's books *on* Teyvat we *know* that are changed, based on Orobashi dying to conceal the existence of Before Sun and Moon. While it's entirely possible that ones in locations like Enkanomiya would also get changed, it's also possible objects like Before Sun and Moon count as Forbidden Knowledge.
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT also imunlaukr the hero of sal vindagnyr (tho he *might* be dead, his descendents might be playable like eula)
@@xeacarons how do you know if eula is his descendant
@@captaindanger13 i wasn't saying that....I meant i m hoping someone someone of his descendent will be playable, similar to how eula is playable from Lawrence Clan while Jean & Barbara from Gunhildhr Clan
@@xeacarons Varka. My guess is on Varka
Outlander doesn't mean outside of Teyvat, it can also mean someone from outside a specific Nation.
What if the third descender was Columbina? We know literally nothing about her other then that she is a harbinger and that she looks like a seraph, so I think it's entirely possible for her to be revealed as a descender
I thought she's from Celestia. A fallen angel disillusioned by the Heavenly Principle's order, with her mask symbolising the knowing of a forbidden truth
I believe in this theory since she's the third strongest she might also know alot about the truth of this world
Im pretty sure those are dove wings. She seems to have heavy inspirations from doves, and i think it was theorized she is the leader of the fatuis spy network/information gathering (doves spies)
Never knew my Waifu is that interesting
She has a dove like appearance also because her name is Columbina, which literally translates to dove-like
you know i like a youtuber when i see their new vid notification and think lets fucking goooooooo
If Dain gets his info from irminsul, how big is the chance that a descender is one of the people who either dont have miscellanys or whose miscellanys are made by Alice
wait but then that would mean dori is a descender and i highly doubt that.
On the Celestia question you're missing two other options. Fourth option is that Celestia (the island) is deserted and that's why it looks like it's tilting. Of course that mostly shifts the question to the identity of the Unknown God. The Third option is that the Unknown God is not on either first or second throne's side. They are a shade who has been corrupted by the Abyss (per the Gnostic Chorus) and they are -- like the demiurge -- in rebellion against their real creator god / primordial one. The demiurge creates the Archons in Gnosticism after all. After the war both thrones were defeated leaving only a corrupted Shade to take over ("the keeper" - where "keeper" also translates as "sustainer" from Chinese). The first two options leave you wondering why bother even telling us about both thrones if whichever throne that was defeated plays no further role. Only option 3 has both thrones playing a role in the narrative.
I think Zhongli might be a good candidate cuz records say that he just DESCENDED to teyvat and he's OVER 6000 years old and teyvat should be around 6000 years old. He's also a DRAGON and well, even if he isn't technically a descender, he's very sus
He’s not… this is case of ppl not understanding wut they read… he’s a GOD who was just forced to fight in fortnite battle royal BY a descender to have a seat in Celestia.. 😂 if zhongli lost then osial would be gel archon and liyue would be a different nation.. really think about that.. all known descenders basically fought each other to take over rule aka all gods below them simple has new management.. 😂 plus venti is even MORE sus… so if Zhongli is one then venti clearly is one.. after all unlike zhongmi .. venti is DIRECTLY connected to goddess of time.. that alone immediately disqualifies zhingli as he unlike venti has no connection to goddess of time who ironically also was worshiped WITH venti in mondstadt for a TIME.. get it.. 😂
The day we finally meet Alice will be a happy day.
I would imagine that the Phanes won the war as it is implied that the war with the Thrones took place ages ago even before the archon war but we know that 2 of phanes's shades, istaroth the god of time represented by the timepiece and the Sustainer the god of space represented by the goblet, were active just 500 years ago. Of course there is always the possibility that they submitted to the Throne and are playing along with the thrones in a lie that the heavenly principles won.
Yes but take note that genshin takes alot of inspiration from gnosticism and in gnosticism there is a fake God a God who pretends to be the REAL one and the 2nd may have won but deceived the people that phanes had won and that THEY were phanes it is a very plausible thing since again genshin is heavily based on gnosticism
What if the truth is that we aren't from another world at all? Like, everyone latches onto that right away and then are like "oh something is sus with the abyss twin". What if the opposite is true and we are the one who somehow got cut off from irminsul.
I take the Fatui at their word that there have been four descenders before Aloy, however, I still think the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles is the second descender. There is no way Nahida would know about the Primordial One since that's the knowledge Orobashi was killed for knowing. Alice, Colombina, or someone unknown is probably the third, if not the twin the Traveler entered Teyvat with, if such a person existed.
The reason I say Colombina could be a descender is because of the six wings in her hair, like the six wings that Aether and Lumine had when they arrived, could indicate some status like that of a seraph. Which could mean she is not from Teyvat. One leak also called Capitano the strongest "'human'" in Teyvat. Pierro would technically count as a hilichurl/abyss creature, while Dottore is likely some kind of cyborg. Which leaves Colombina's identity. Some say she's a seelie, but it's weird if every member of her species died except her, so I don't think that's what she is. Though the fact the leaker themselves put the word "human" in quotation marks means Capitano is not a simple human.
Theories about Traveler's twin are more interesting than descender theories, though. The first interesting theory I heard, is that the Traveler's original twin died, and the twin we know in the Abyss Order is some kind of recreation, perhaps through the ley lines. Another is that the Traveler never had a twin before coming to Teyvat, and their memories were messed with by the Khaenri'ahns or someone else while they were asleep as they made an opposite gender clone from the Traveler. And the third was that the Traveler's twin is still alive somewhere, and they are not the Abyss twin.
The first theory is easily disproven, at least in the form of a clone created by the ley lines, because the Traveler didn't meet the original in the land between life and death during Hu Tao's story quest. So, if the person the Traveler remembers is a different being from the Abyss twin, then at least the person they remember is not dead.
The Traveler goes around everywhere posting leaflets asking if anyone has seen their twin sibling. The Fatui know this. The Fatui and everyone else in Teyvat know that the Twins arrived together because it's not a secret. So if you go and look for those old posters (I believe some are still interactable objects in the game?) and they all disappeared after 3.2 archon quest then your theory would have weight. But if those posters are still there the Fatui of this samsara know that the Sibling and Traveler arrived together.
I think that venti was given the power of the god of time. Because as we can see in most events, he brings the winds of the past to his citizens, AND he knows the ballads of the present, past and future. Isn't that suspicious? Most of us think that venti's power is just wind, but isn't it weird how he can know those ballads.
I think the reason for this is the wind is very closely related to time since istaroth has her thousand winds that I’m assuming venti was one of them plus the thousands winds temple is where people used to worship both time and wind
No one is talking about Jiangxue being a descender.
My theory about the sibling is that they travelled the "world" once and when the "world" reset, irminsul absorbed them, making them of the "world"
When I'm saying "world", I'm talking about a simulation, like we experienced in Chapter 3. So the siblings is in a newgame+ mode.
Just maybe, the abyss twin is the one that manipulated Irminsul to change her data in teyvat, so that she can join the abyss order. This is due to the abyss opposing celestia who are foreigners to teyvat. So, to oppose celestia as an outsider, abyss twin might have done this.
That makes so much sense oh my god
Yeah I thought this was the most obvious conclusion.
Regarding "how fatui know".
I think it's not only Nahida who can/has access to the Irminsul Tree. As Nahida found discrepancies about The Sibling's information in it. This means that someone has to read and tempered it before Nahida.
Greater Lord could very well have tampered with Irminsul.
@@abdurehmanmalik2980 it could be. The term '500 years ago' (referring to the cataclysm) itself is ambiguous, leaving us uncertain whether the siblings came before, during, or after the said event. Have they met before, or not? In the recent quest, we only find out that The Wanderer was able to modify the Irminsul Tree, so it's not surprising if there's someone else capable of doing so.
If you look into Honkai Impact maybe the first name you will think of when you see K.K. is Kevin Kaslana, who is the leader of the Flamechasers. In the manga there was an 'ARK Project' in the previous era which is basically sending two immortal fusion warriors with spaceships to find other inhabitable worlds. I think this is a possible connection with the travelers.
Regarding Pierro(The Jester), Scara already confirmed in the new archon quest that he was indeed a Royal Mage of Khaneri’ah and he even knew the Traveler’s sibling
Well, for the Abyss sibling, Nahida tells us that the Irminsul has record of them, starting from what they appeared in Khaenri'ah 500 years ago. An Irminsul record existing for them specifically (not the memories of others, but their own memories) is proof that, according to Teyvat, the sibling is Teyvatian from that point on.
However, given that we know that clones are possible in this world, the record that the Irminsul has could be that of a clone (idk why they would have a clone, but it's possible), or perhaps Irminsul's data was altered. Another possibility is that our twin made the decision to become Teyvatian somehow for some reason, perhaps with the help of Dainsleif (since they could've been together during that time + Dainsleif having access to the Irminsul).
Part of me wonders if the Abyssal Twin is either a copy and/or possessed/controlled by another consciousness (Rhinedottir?). If you look at the intro literally, our twin is sealed away… Perhaps the Heavenly Principles was trying to capture the corrupt copy but captured our real twin. Data has been altered (Nahida says data is blurry at the Twin’s arrival and end of the journey in Irminsul)- so perhaps why our Sibling is in the records is because Irminsul is following the copy.
Just a line of thought.
When nahida said our sibling wasn't a descender I was suprised but i kept thinking what if the twins are considered being one descender instead of being two
I don’t think there’s enough evidence to say that Alice isn’t just a native of Teyvat that figured out how to travel to other worlds. Layla, Iansan, and Puchinella seem to be of the same elven race as Klee and Alice as they share the same ear type. Personally, I think that the Crowned Heir from the Battlepass cutscene might be a descender. The Crowned Heir and Queen of Darkness are similar to Abyssling and Traveler, but the details are too incongruous for them to be the same. Namely, titles (queen vs princess), motivations (Genesis pearl vs finding a new home), the timeline (the Twins arrived together, rather than one arriving later), and the battlepass character genders not changing with the siblings’ genders.
Lol the battlepass scene is clearly an allegory.
0 dragon (native)
1st primordial (descenders/alien)
2nd celestia (descenders/alien)
3rd alice (descenders/alien)
4th traveler (descenders/alien)
5th aloy (descenders/alien)
why do you guys really insist on including Aloy, she's not included in the lore, she's non-canon
Aloy is just a random collab character slapped in the game, even though you can use her she has no crumb of lore in Genshin lol
she has no crumb of lore. . . yet. lol
After completing the quest I was intro to "descenders" in my knowledge this is basically outside beings such as the traveler. Now all I know the only descenders are Traveler, Alice and maybe the first is Phanes, his four shades and the Heavenly Principles. I have a feeling the Heavenly Principles is more than a person except it's a group of people that basically is like a company
Edit:Damn
A small correction here: the Four Shades were created by the Primordial One (who MAY have been Phanes) when he (or they? what are the correct pronouns??) was already in Teyvat, which means that the Shades couldn't be Descenders since they aren't "external" beings.
I think the heavenly principles and phanes and his shades are the same. This is as for our five artifact slots in game, one of them is crown and I think that represents phanes as he is often described with a crown in enka. There is also the time piece for istaroth the shade of time, a flower of life for the shade that created humans, a plume of death for a death shade. But get this, the final artifact piece in chinese is translated as the goblet of space (idk why in ENG it became eonothem), and in the symbol representing it, there is a diamond shaped hole that looks identical to the unknown god's portals, and the unknown god is the self proclaimed sustainer of HEAVENLY PRINCIPLES. Hence I conclude the heavenly principles and phanes and his shades are the same.
@@_dragonflies_ (just use "they" when u're uncertain about pronouns and primordial is a cosmic being its basically genderless) we get this information from the fatui so i don't think someone of Primordial/Phanes and Second Who Came caliber will leave behind their records about them being from another world in irminsul when the whole reason enkonomiya and orobashi was punished was due to them knowing this truth. And i don't think Primordial/Phanes falls under descenders as they are the ones who shaped teyvet and seperated teyvet from the whole universe with their cosmic egg shells. And they might have created Irminsul so i don't think irminsul will register them as alien if that's the case.
@@xeacarons still, the Primordial One could be considered an external being, we don't know this for sure yet. We also don't know how much information Fatui have exactly, whether they know about the Primordial One's existance at all is unclear,l. Same with Nahida. So, yeah, I personally prefer to think they were a Descender too.
@@_dragonflies_ exactly, we can't really know for sure as we don't know the full scope of fatui's intel or irminsul credibilty but i'am still leaning towards that phanes/second who came can't possibly be in 4 listed descenders from the fatui, ei said they are of Higher Power so it ain't farfetched to think whoever controls celestia (be it Phanes or 2nd dude) has ability to change history and data via irminsul too, if celestia wants to erase themselves from aliens status they easily could do that.
Alice is definitely the most intriguing character mentioned in all of genshin so far. I wonder when hoyo will give us more details about her
Considering Alice's narration of both the Wanderer and Aloy's collective miscellany, I think it's pretty safe to assume that she's probably a Descender. She exclusively narrates those who are not known by Irminsul, as Aloy is from another world, and Wanderer erased himself from it. As Dain is from Teyvat, it's safe to assume that his vast knowledge on all the characters as Boughkeeper wouldn't extend to those who are not recorded by it.
The 3rd Descender is highly unlikely to be Paimon since it was revealed in the latest Archon Quest, those who originate from Teyvat all had their memories wiped of the original dendro Archon's existence, yet Traveler retained theirs, indicating Paimon is tied to Teyvat (& therefore didn't likely Descend), unless there's some super crazy reason/scenario like the mystery currently surrounding traveler's abyss sibling; something to that nature.
but that's also very off because zhongli remembers the former dendro archon
But did you remember when we first encounter Mona? She says her divination thingy wouldn't work on Traveller because he is not from this world. Then proceeds to Paimon but happens the same thing. Her divination also didn't work
I have been fascinated with Alice since she was first introduced. I get why she made this list, but I wonder if she might be a "reverse descender". An "ascender"? And/or maybe she is the offspring of a descender and a native of Teyvat - a Merlin like character. Personally, I really like this second option. Similar to Merlin, I see her as a character that has a passion for humanity (or the demi-humanity) of Teyvat, yet she is disconnected from them at some level as well. She is the author the "Teyvat Travel Guides". A series that catalogues areas of Teyvat but is also criticized in game for not being relatable (though I forget which NPC shared that comment). She has a daughter that she leaves in the care of a homunculus opposed to a human. To be fair and without diminishing the point, said homunculus is the "progeny" of someone she likely trusts. I see a certain trope here that makes my instincts think she is not one of the descenders.
Now that we almost have playable Scaramouche, playable Alice when!
could it be columbina?? she has alot of angel wings on her design
columbina is theorized to be a seelie
I feel like Columbina has to be one of them, she is the one fatui harbinger we literally know nothing about and she could definitely be how the fatui even know about the descenders
That makes little sense, if we know so little about her why would your first assumption be that she is a descender?
Alice is a way more likely candidate.
You put my name on the supporters list! THANK YOU!!
Also I swear it's like you read my mind with this video! Since I finished the story, traveller wasn't second or first, but FOURTH??
Thank you again for amazing content, I love coming here, you are like a one person "think tank" 👏🏻✨️
I don't believe the book Before Sun and Moon can also be fully trusted since we now know that the incident with Rukkhadevata altered the data of Greater Lord in the Teyvat Books, Aranara and even the in-game item descriptions. But then again, if Orobashi was sentenced to death after reading the book, at least some parts of the book may be true. If it is able to rewrite books that were already written long ago, then we can tell that Irminsul is capable to altering data in all points in time, not just the present.
From the 2nd Raiden Story quest, we learned that Ei was the only one not affected by the memory altering when the Sakura appeared in Inazuma. She was in Khaenriah at the time. The Sacred Sakura is some sort of manifestation of the Irminsul Tree.
So maybe the memory alteration only reaches a certain range. It does not affect anyone or anything that isn't connected to Irminsul so we can say that the Abyss or Khaenriah are not connected to the Leylines. This really confuses as to how it's possible even though Irminsul is said to be located in the Abyss or khaenriah, from what we know. I heard that Celestia removed Khaenriah's connection to the leylines so if Irminsul is in the Abyss then why isn't the Abyss Order trying to go after it.
I cannot be the only one who thinks the glimpse we get of a shooting star in Nahida story quest final cutscene is HUGE.
I have a theory that it's related to the travelers sibling, considering we got a glimpse of the sibling when we entered the dream realm with Nahida to find the perp. Perhaps it has to do with the sibling descending. Perhaps the siblings conciousness' are connected? Or the abyss twin is just following the traveler around - which would raise a few questions as to how the abyss twin arrived in that dream realm created by moseis.
are you gonna make an updated version of this video now that 4.2 has given us new info?
I so happy when you make these theories
Keep up the good work
👍🏻
I believe the Twins are much older than 500 years old. It seems that there are many events happening prior to the beginning of the game. Scaramouche tells Lumine Aether lived with the Jester in Khanri’ah during the time the Jester was a royal Madge. This was before Khanri’ah fell. Scaramouche also says he doesn’t know when Aether entered or left Khanri’ah. I see Dainslief as an over-coverage to the Jester as the 12th Harbinger.
I don't think Paimon is a descender. Why? Because she had her memories of the former Dendro archon erased like everyone else. Best way to know someone is a "descender?" They know who the former Dendro archon is. The only way for them to forget or know is if they're connected to Irminsul. Descenders, as far as we're concerned, are not. I feel this is how the Traveler is going to figure out who other Descenders are in the future.
Then that would also mean that the Paimon and Unknown God theory isnt true, right?
Since unknown God sustains the heavenly principles
@@nakuweed715 You're right, it wouldn't. The only way for it to be true is if the Abyss sibling was somehow able to trick Irminsul into believing they were from this world when they might not. Someone might've done that to Paimon. Though I still think Paimon's from this world, rather a primordial one or a seelie.
@@wordsmith6154 Paimon is our Tevyat guide.. so Paimon are from Tevyat, and I think Paimon lost her memories and only remember Tevyat world so she can guide us.
Straight up if you know CN/JP/KR, you'll know who Paimon is, 原神/Genshin means 原 Original/Elemental 神 God, double meaning on elemental gods and the Original God. Now look at the Genshin logo and you'll literally see Paimon's halo on top of the words Genshin, which straight up tells you that Paimon is the Genshin, Original God, which means she is Phanes.
Also for Alice, I think she's more an "Ascender" than Descender, she travels to other worlds from Teyvat.
but if Paimon was the primordial god, how come she could not read Byakuyakoku's script?
@@jaxlone997 Paimon's just very sus overall, we can't tell if she's acting and lying at all. She could even be unconsciously manipulating things into place and we can't really tell at this point.
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat yes. We know she can read Teyvat script, how old is it by the way? did it also exist while Byakuya was still on the surface, before the war with 2nd throne?
@@jaxlone997 Maybe she lost her memory
Aster really turned into an aranara, i thought it was just her twitter account 😭
Asterana
I don't know much about the descender, however i have found new knowledge about Aether, from greek mythology. I found out that he has a twin sister hamera, who he married(maybe because they are married in greek mythology lumine name was change).However Aether was know as the first born son, and is also "a primordial one" which means that there is a chance thar the celestial and the traveler could and might be related. It also means that the traveler may have more siblings then we thought.
I've always found it strange that the Traveller could possibly be a Descender, but the other sibling isn't. So maybe they are both descenders, considering that they both came from another world (supposedly), and that the separation of the siblings was just a side-effect of being captured by the red floating box lady in the beginning cutscene. Maybe the siblings were separated because the power of two descenders together would mean certain destruction for Celestia, and the red floating box lady was sent by Celestia to separate them because they knew that the siblings could destroy them if they are kept together? Also, we know that the Traveller will definitely reunite with their sibling, even though the sibling has taken a different path. But maybe the sibling did this in order to gain the favour and trust of the Abyss (and before that Khanrei'ah), so that they could join the cause in getting rid of Celestia for good. Because if the celestial nails can cause the destruction that we've seen that they can do, the siblings will need all the help that they can get. Which is also why I think that the traveller will eventually side with the Tsaritsa and the fatui, because they will eventually realise that they are gathering all the gnosis in order to take Celestia down.
(sorry for such a long comment!😅)
I think the connection with Angels is quite an interesting perspective. Could the four Descenders be linked to the Arch Angels (Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, Uriel)?
I dont think so the traveler is obviously based on lucifer as they use light themed powers and lucifer was the angel of light before he became the devil. Adding on the traveler's companion is named paimon and in demonology paimon is described as "most loyal to lucifer" further confirming that the traveler is based on lucifer
Could the unusual hilichurl be also a Descender?
Wait.......
Hoyoverse definitely would make this a thing
The unusual hilichurl is just an easter egg from Mihoyo.
@@xavi_ You never know from mihoyo, in Honkai the mascot character Ai-chan went from an AI with cabbages as hair to a full playable character with a new model from a future universe that sees the main canon as a video game, joins the main canon and helps save the crew.
In the Hoyoverse, everything that appears, exists as part of the multiverse and is canon.
Zhongle is one of them for sure, because he say that there is tow survived archons after the archons war even after nahida deleted the old dendro archon informations from the armensoul
I think nubelung, the dragon sovereign, after going out ,came back with the power of abyss is the third descender.He was orginally from the world but later is gone out from the world just like how our abyss twin right now is seen as someone who is in the world not a descender. This could be related to 'he' described by deinslief after our recent khanreah quest in sumeru.The 'he' here could be nubelung, who could have the power to tamper with irminsul effectively changing past of our abyss twin to make her believe that she is an abyssal princess. This has a lot of loopholes but can give you a general idea of what to look out for. I still believe nubelung is 3rd descender with how the story of "before sun and moon" and apep's description of the Second war, which is nubelung return war, is perfect if you see the returning nubelung as 3rd descender.
Yeah Aloy definitely the 5th
They said in her trailer that there hasn’t been another like her in 500 years, meaning it should be pointing at another descender and that would be the traveler
They could also throw us a curveball and just add a new Descender which now that I think about it could be kinda cool
i literally love ur voice like if you were to narrate history for me i’d remember everything like wowww
Watching this one year after, i can say that most of your ideas are still standing as quite possible truths. But when the history changed after the sumeru archon quest, everyone would only remember the newly written history but only the descenders would remember the previous one and remember rukkadevata. Paimon doesnt remember her but Zhongli's voice lines hide something mrvelous, everyone's voice lines for the sumeru archon changed but Zhongli's didnt so he has a case of being a Descender,might not be the 3rd one but stil it could show that there are more than only 4 descenders
It’s gunna be crazy if Aloy is a big part of this story too
According to the voice lines, technically Aloy is a decender. I was super curious if they were going to be bold enough to include her but not dwell on it.
Wow, Aster pumping out new content! I‘m all here for it :D
There's a bit of detail that could further support Alice as a 3rd descender. Up to now every character skill explaining video is voiced by Dainsleif, except Wanderer, his video is voiced by Alice. A speculation could be made is that since Dainsleif is from Teyvat, he do not remember who is Wanderer, and since Alice remember him, she's not from Teyvat.
I've always wondered if Paimon is a seelie. Lately, the writing for the quests have started putting more emphasis on how attached Paimon has become to the traveller (is the english translation the only one which specifies Paimon's gender?), while also adding lore which suggests something bad will happen to a seelie if they fall in love with a human...
Paimon is original from Tevyat .
From what I heard, Sustainer in game files has name "Asmodei" so it matches to the pattern, as it is modified demon name Asmodeus
In the archon quest paimon forgets about the greatlord and only the travler remembers the so that should means paimons is from teyvat and Nahida did say some could have changed the twin fate of obscuring it
Fatui must be had contact with one of the previous descender if they knew these entities is not from teyvat, even if fatui had access to leylines, descender info cannot recorded in leylines afterall
One of descender is isekaid people, that is my theory btw.
The 3rd Descender was always among us. Yes you guys know him. The 3rd Descender is none other than...........
.........."Da Wei". 🤣🤣
Wow, cool video. Time to leave it in a playlist for a few months until I finish the archon quests in order to avoid spoilers...
your voice is so soothing and smooth
Just imagine if all the first three descenders were the traveller themselves XD Just different versions like how Nahida is Rukkhadevatta in another samsara LMAOOO (but I don’t think that’s really the case cos it might be a boring reveal 🤷♀️)
I'm not sure about that, but with time travel and reality bending who knows. But I do think think its suspicious that Dainsleif looks so much like the Twins.
What if the leader of the Abyss is one of the Descender? Since I think the Abyss is the one who change the sibling's fate.
Probably the Oueen of Darkness (or the snake surrounding her) from the bp cutscene is the head of abyss order? The Abyss sibling is only refered as Prince/Princess so they are definitely 2nd in command
@@xeacarons Yeah exactly, I thought the same.
So the Descenders are like angels...
and we have four of them...
Also they are connected with the artifacts (Idk how to explain that here)
I think that it is like this:
Crown = heavenly principles
Hourglass (Time) = Paimon
Goblet (Space) = ???
Flower (Life) = Traveller
Feather (Death) = Columbina
love this so much!!
The part about rukkedevatta reminded me about the forbidden knowledge. In one of the scenes from the desert archon quest, the ancient sumerian priest said that forbidden knowledge is not from this world. It could be another descender maybe?
I think the forbidden knowledge was said to be from the Abyss, but it was unfathomable knowledge that Irminsul could not process and was incompatible with Teyvat reality itself. Which could have some sort of connection to being related to a Descender since they too are outside of the world and incompatible to some degree.
I am a big fan of Zhongli being the Descender.
1. His story literally says he descended 6000 years ago
2. His text was changed after Sumeru archon quest 3.2, but only slightly. As in, the structure of the senteces was altered, so MHY did not miss his text, but the content of the sentences about archons stayed the same. That old fuck remembers Rukka.
I have no idea what your content is but I loved your voice and storytelling and I'm subscribing for those
our Emergency Food Provision can't be a Decender she was affected by Rukkadavata and Scaramoush deletion in Ermansul while the MC remembered everything......... unless she's playing dumb
I feel like the 3rd descender is either
1. Pierro
2. Dainslief
3. A character we’ve never met (probably meet them in the next few archon quests)
4. Somebody who died and hoyo will make us time travel back and meet them
Also what if genshin ends with our sibling dead?
1 and 2 are from khaenri'ah thou.
How is dainslef a descender ppl say shit without reading lore or just paying attention I swear
We’re literally told in-game in the chasm quest that Dain was part of Khaenriah’s army where he worked with Halfdan.
And he has the same curse as all the hillichurls and other cursed khaenriahns.
@@SparklyTootsEN not sure u got what captaindanger said. He said dain was part of Khaenri'ah meaning he is not a descender because Khaenri'ah is part of teyvat
Lumine is the 3rd Descender. Having to wake up first before her brother, she got to explore Teyvat first. We knew that because of Dain. Now, you said that Dain has access to the Irminsul. What if Dain is the one that can manipulate it? What if he manipulated the Irminsul to make Lumine's origin from Teyvat to protect her from Celestia or the Sustainer. This may also be the reason they grew apart because Lumine might have opposed this idea but Dain still did it.
also a point to the fatui knowing this information is the exsistence of the tsaritsa and their relationship to her, she's been around before the cataclysm 500 years ago, but not the archon war, so I feel like she wouldn't mistake the sibling as being from teyvat.
Just a bit of info about some of the irl demons, that Istaroth (Astaroth) is not from the book of Ars Goetia, so in genshin they could be from different origins (first and second throne?), But then again Beelzebul (Beelzebub) is not from the Goetia either, but is related at least historicaly to Baal but still considered different and unrelated demons many texts. So i dont know if these could be considered the same type of gods as the archons came from or if they are a different type or tier of demon gods.
About the fallibility of most (if not all) evidence we currently have, I think it's necessary to keep it in mind, but not assume they are all false. After all, if all we know is fake, then the lore might as well not exist.
Honestly, I kinda think Hoyo introduced it into the lore just so they can retcon stuff if they change their mind on it later, lol
For some reason Kaeya always crosses my mind as "descender". Not sure why, but I think it's up to interpretation in terms of "descension".
For example, Kh'aenriah is gone, would it be considered another world by that logic? Is the abyss of this world? Things like that.
I have a feeling that was intentional, to leave the grounds of being deemed a descender ambigious for now. A, because Nahida was only told surface level info, and B, the story would end too quickly.
But just the concept of Kaeya's lack of immortality despite his ties to Kh'aenriah, and sudden appearance in Mondstadt of ALL places. Who else appeared there? The traveler and Paimon. Mondstadt seems to have a lot of thar going on 🤨
Also, with Aloy canonically in the world, she is likely a descender in one timeline, maybe not the main one due to being a crossover.
Actually I’m pretty sure that Aloy isn’t a canon character
@@Gibmeprimogemss that's how it seems
Kaeya can't be a descender he is 100% from Khaenri'ah the reason why he is in Mondstadt is because his father left him to be a spy / ''The last hope of Khaenri'ah'' and why Traveler woke up next to Mondstadt I think it's because Mondstadt was the closest to Khaenri'ah/The Abyss (This could be the same reason why Kaeya's father left him there in Mondstadt instead of any other places)
The Samsara from Hoyo/Mihoyo's othwr game from GGZ/HG2 is that Samsara cycle. Something about the souls being retained within some sort of celestial spirit and the souls that all who's been dead can be saved but cominf back to a newer life causes them to become a blank slate while having a sort of similar destiny or fate. Kyuushou could be seen as an example if she was a decenderz though as a, "Chosen One" to save the world. Indeed she did, and the last Herrchers on Earth, 65 years old and grown to an adult yet young but with that odd personality and packing them buns. I believe sh3 inherited the power of Void and Reason, mostly Reason is with her now.
The whole 4 descenders thing is giving me adventure time vibes with the 4 catalyst comets.
Personally I think that Pierro or one of the Fatui could be it. I mean, they've already shown to have unique character amongst them. (Dottore and his clones, Scara is a puppet of Raiden Ei, and Tartaglia was in the Abyss for some time)
Pierro is from Khaenri’ah
Remember childe's mentor ? Is she from teyvat ?
paimon cant have been a descender she forgot about rukhadevata (unless she's playing dumb) so that means she's from this world .
Also you know how zhongli was demoted to teyvat , where was he before ? Does it count of outside teyvat ? This one might be a bit far fetched but the unknown entity thing reminded me of the movie interstellar and I had the idea of the abyss sibling making a replica of themselves in khanriah and travelling back in time to change or alter some things (some relations to istaroth?) And completely have hidden any trace of them and released their copy to replace them for a while which is what we think our sibling is
What do yall think ?
Paimon maybe lying,as for abys sibling i also think the same as u just said
Are you gonna post your live reaction to Sumeru’s 5th Archon Quest? I want to see your reaction to the lore drop.
Another important question that we should ask. Of the 4 descenders, who and how many came to teyvat after being hit by a truck
I like some of your ideas but you throw too many ifs and buts, and the logic is very messy. Better to focus on one or two ideas within a theory and try not to pursue ones that are so vague, weakly linked or overly complex. This isnt Kingdom Hearts. The writing so far has been VERY basic.
A bit of a stretch but I think the Alchemist Gold is another possible candidate. I do think the most likely candidate is a new character not yet introduced though.
Great video! new sub :)) I wonder why MatPat hasn't talk much about the lore would be really nice to hear him out
The sustainer DOES have an ars goetia name though. It's Asmoday. This isn't a leak, it's a datamine. Her model is named Asmoday.