Why Are Trans Activists Rewriting History? with N3VLYNNN | Episode 173
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Sasha & Stella sit down with the creatively multifaceted and dynamically articulate artist N3VLYNNN, exploring the intersections of identity, creativity, expression and activism. Nevline's nuanced perspective on the trans movement's impact on black lesbians and the women's movement highlights the often overlooked and broader implications for identity and representation within the movement, and how these dynamics have evolved over time.
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Thank you for hosting me. I really enjoyed this conversation and happy to contribute my voice to the broader discussion! 💜
We loved having you!
Thanks for sharing your insights and being a brave artistic rebel. Looking forward to following you substack.
It was a pleasure to hear your point of view!
Really enjoyed your Pauli Murray piece; she would thank you, if she could, for resisting her retroactive transing. I thank you, because I can.
Please continue to talk and write, encouraging women to finally say enough and also protect young girls spaces. Thanks.
I’ve been angry about the transing of the dead for years. It not only attempts to erase the history of strong lesbian women but implies that the capability to “buck the patriarchal system” was only made possible because these were “actually” men. (according to their belief system but also echoes the straight stereotyping of lesbians as just wanting to be men.)
Hundred percent this. It robs them of their agency as women, I feel like.
Yeah that makes sense. I've also noticed that butch women in general are somewhat invisible, especially butch straight/bi women.
They are doing it with people like David Bowie and Kurt Cobain too. Its disturbing
Does anyone else have an ad from the Trevor Project under the video linking to their page on conversion therapy?
Yes, so annoying! 🙄
Sadly we can't seem to do anything about it.
I can’t decipher what Trevor Project supports. Does it speak to surgical and hormonal fixes for mental health?? Are they on a “side” of this conversation?
@@sophiafaith Trevor Projects supports LGBTQ including transgender surgeries
Every time 🤪
I'm a gay brown man in the UK, and I always found it off-putting the way some fellow gay men feel so entitled to women's spaces. Even/esp amongst some of my fem gay friends, it's a 'femininity' that's refracted through male physicality (there's also a particular flavour of femgay misogyny).
I also I find it weird how many UK spaces use the term BIPOC, like in England who is the 'I'? (Indigenous)
Like, who are the "I"? The picts? Stonehenge folk?
It's all an attempt to shame and separate people. Including the I in the UK just illustrates how it has been adopted unthinkingly as a fashionable accessory - to be dropped the moment it's seen as "uncool".
Irish 😊
I’m so happy to hear you say this.
As a lesbian who struggled with what would now be called “gender dysphoria” as a teenager in a fundamentalist, anti-gay community, I really appreciate this episode. ❤ Thanks Stella and Sasha and N3VLYNNN! 😊
I just went to the Pauli Murray Center for History and Social Justice and they called her a "black person perceived as a woman". My lesbian blood is boiling.
it's so dehumanizing. I talked about the Pauli Murray Center in my essay and broke down how the leadership of that org. has a personal investment in trans'ing her.
@@missylee3022 I hope you strongly objected. Dehumanising a particular group in society makes oppressing them so much easier.
@@N3VLYNNN Their website spends so much time on trans issues, more than the range of issues she addressed! With such pragmatism and institutional savvy, too. (The center is a few blocks from my home, and I know one of the organizers behind it.)
Curious I read Wikipedia bio because they’re totally captured by transgender ideology. They use she/her pronouns. Almost half of her bio builds a case that she was a transgender man. It includes a section on pronouns he/him for Murray. It is so disrespectful to declare a person a member of a tribe post mortem. Generations of children will be taught Murray was transgender when Murray herself did not claim to be.
@@arawilson Well the trans lobby brings in a lot of money. LGB was never so financially supported - that's why the transing is so pushed.
The same thing is happing in the women only burlesque space and the female only beaches in Australia. "queer" men and Trans identified males have demanded to be let in and women have quietly stepped away and self excluded. The female only pole dancing space and the burlesque space are important because it's a safe space for women of all nationalities, body types ages to come together without the judgement and dominance of men.
Well said! Similarly, the Australian Human Rights Commission (lol what an ironic name) has made it illegal for lesbians to host lesbian events that exclude men who identify as lesbians!
There are also trns identified females who have a double mastectomy & then decide that they're gay men, and are entitled to gatecrash gay male spaces.
They're not wanted. Male your own space. You are not like us.
This makes me so angry! I couldn't imagine being a teenage girl now and having a biological teen boy in the bathroom with me! It's already embarrassing for young girls to talk about their periods. I remember in junior high bleeding through my jeans and having to try to hide it. I couldnt imagine dealing with something like that with a person who'll never experience or understand that situation.
When a man enters a women-only space it changes in ways he’s oblivious to, as all men are. No matter how much he identifies as a woman, or women play along with his “identity” the dynamic has shifted and women are on their guard - it’s no longer a women only space.
If a transwoMAN can't understand why women don't want him in their space then they really can't claim to be women can they?
trans women aren’t men.
Cis women aren’t men.
@@aaabbc379trans women aren’t women. Hey are trans women. Biological males. There is a difference.
@@aaabbc379 they always will be.
Thank you all so much for a great conversation.
Michigan Women's Festival kicked out a man in '94.
A few years ago he killed 2 lesbians and their teenage son in Oakland California.
He's now incarcerated at Chowchilla WOMEN'S prison.
Edit: Dana Rivers was his name thank you. But actually the timeline is wrong it may have been another "trans activist" guy because '94 (I think?) was before he changed.
Someone is erasing any mention of Michigan in his Wikipedia page. He was extremely active across the road at later Camp Trans protest (which lasted until '15). Which honestly is OK that's free speech. I didn't agree but 1st amendment good, murder bad....jeezus people ...lol...right? Plus now no festival for anyone....sad
BS! 🤬
@@christinadodd5780 Appears to be a reference to Dana Rivers
@@christinadodd5780 don't remember his name but he taught school in the 80's here and if you think it is BS maybe you could elaborate.
@fuzzymath6240 why should they be housing a biological male with women who have history of violence against women? I don't care if he's trans woman.
Ooh it worked!
Does anyone have a theory for why gender identity has started to supersede everything else in priority? It is truly baffling to me.
I’m pretty much a free speech absolutist when it comes to art, so this woman’s story is particularly disturbing to me, and I thank her for going public with it. I love her attitude!
Not a coherent theory, but here's 2 thoughts:
a) Gender identity is available to anyone and everyone
b) People with more than the average amount of narcissism tend to be very loud and self centred, this cohort has discovered gender identity.
Thank you!
@@N3VLYNNN Hey! =) Great to see you.
A toxic combo of wealthy ay-jee-pis, big ph***a, and pop control interests. The fact that I have to spell things weird to evade the senserz speaks to that.
Transhumanism speeds up if you erase biological sex therefore human rights. It gives robots equal rights.
Wow im so glad to see her doing this. Ive talked to Black journalists & remember being told "this doesnt effect the Black community"
I know better because I work in the mental health field & talk to parents & personally know genderideology effects Black children & young adults.
African Americans have to network & share our stories more. I get alot of blow back & confrontation but im a combative debater😂
Thank you!
Good on you - keep telling the truth!
Yes! It’s so hard finding other black people critical of this ideology.
What a great interview! N3VLYNNN is witty, funny, insightful, and a much needed voice. I ran to her blog to read her writings.
Thank you!
Love the locs! You are giving me flashbacks of my belly dance class, which was a sacred space for women, and when a man showed up the whole vibe changed. It was a challenge, some women accepted him, some didn't, but the focus became him
Regarding the community note, The Trev*r Pr*ject is an ACTIVIST organization who encourages minors to pursue the medicalized child-transition industry. They are not a medical nor a mental health organization. Because of this, they are not experts that anyone should be valuing. 💔Just my 2 cents.
Thank you for commenting this. You can provide 'feedback' to youtube on their decision to slap that under the video, it's in the three dots next to it. I have no idea how much attention is paid but it's better than saying nothing...
@@meretriciousinsolent sadly, I’ve given CZcams feedback on this issue twice.
I submitted feedback to Google about the Trevor Project disclaimer. It’s so insidious.
It’s not about them being trans, it’s about them being men.
Its so upsetting how black and brown were added to the "progressive" pride flag. No ethnicity or race is queer. Very eurocentric.
Thank you. Exactly.
Exactly! It’s so offensive!
I wanted to see who was actually responsible for the black and brown stripes: "The Progress Pride flag was developed in 2018 by non-binary American artist and designer Daniel Quasar (who uses xe/xyr pronouns)"
Daniel Quasar is a white TIF. Why on earth was this task given to a white person in the first place? By their own holy laws, shouldn't a "person of color" have been the one to do this?
@@N3VLYNNN Are you familiar with Diana King? This discussion reminded me of her and I'm not sure why. She is the first Jamaican singer to come out as lesbian. As a result, her entire family cut her off and her music stopped circulating. Since then, she has re-identified as non-binary and modified her body. I've never heard anyone in the gender critical sphere discuss Diana King
@@L_Martin Good point! Thanks for sharing.
I totally agree about the need for women-only sport's club. I discovered French boxing last year and absolutely loved it. But it was so frustrating to train with men who were better than me, not because they've been training for longer, had better technique or were just more talented, but because they're men. They are taller, stronger, faster, more powerful. I've been struggling with envying men's physical capacities since early teenagehood and it was really depressing for me to be confronted to it while doing something I was otherwise loving to do.
The word "gentleman" comes from a root word 'gens' that means part of our family.
Being a gentleman originally indicated someone who valued and supported people in his extended clan.
Ungentlemanly behaviour is behaviour that is not considerate of the well being of sisters, wives, mother's, daughters, women that you consider part of your in group.
It sounds old fashioned, and is sexist in that it can be interpreted as chauvanistic. Women who do not hold men to gentlemanly standard though are fools who don't understand that women are different and must be treated with honour and respect regarding their different characteristics and attributes.
CZcams has finally induced me to remove the grossly misused conversion therapy banner with my ad blocker.
For those wanting to do likewise, add "###clarify-box" to your filters.
Stella, there are clips online of Cillian Murphy being mis-origin-ed as British and it's bloody hilarious to see him slam it down. I always think of you Stella 😆😆😆
Thanks to Sasha, Stella and N3VLYNNN for disseminating their important work.
The argument against males in female spaces often lacks nuance. No one knows for certain which males may be dangerous. (Though this, from Sex Matters in the UK: "Males who identify as trans are five times more likely than other males to be imprisoned for sexual offences.") Whether or not a particular male is a sexual predator, women deserve to experience the relaxed vigilance that attaches to female-only spaces, in addition to not having the energy changed by male presence, as Stella observes.
Psychologist in training here (currently starting my doctoral internship). I am very much comfortable as a male, and naturally embody many masculine traits + behaviors (e.g., a love of firearms, physical fitness). Nevertheless, I can't help but feel as if I'm "one of the girls" whenever I listen to a podcast episode like this one. That is to say, I will listen to the conversation, being pretty much immersed in the topic or issue, and then occasionally imagine myself just sitting next to each of you around a table, listening attentively to the tales and "gossip" (using that last term facetiously). I'm not sure I'm expressing myself clearly, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. The point is, no one who knew me in real life would have any idea that "Gender: A Wider Lens" was prominent in my list of podcasts, and I can't help but take a guilty pleasure in that fact. Keep up the important conversations!
I finally understood why the feminist don't talk about this issue. The invasion of female space by men.
Funny, i cant make a comment about male gametes being sp*rm and female gametes being ov*? Or XX and XY chromosomes? Why YT?🤔
This platform kowtows to the trans industrial complex.
@@christinadodd5780 CZcams corporate identifies as having natural intelligence.
WPATH attempted to put age limits on sex assignment surgery in WPATH's SoC8, but the Whitehouse made them remove them.
It was featured on Sasha and Stella's discussions recently.
The owners of YT are being schooled to avoid entertaining ideas that Admiral Richard Levine disagrees with.
Intelligent and thoughtful. Thank you🇨🇦
Men dancing as a performance is far less popular now, even compared to 10 or 20 years ago.
The last popular male dancers I can recall would be Prince and Michael Jackson, twenty years ago.
Interesting how all my comments are disappearing, CZcams.
Thou must kowtow to the Church of Trans, or thou shalt be punished.
@@PeterH-be1xe I get the sense that their algorithm dissolves most of them without notice but someone has to report a comment for you to get a 24 hour time out for "hate speech."
Admiral Richard Levine is directing the show from his control room.
Yep! Several of my comments have been removed. The other day, I was restricted for 24 hrs because of hate speech. All I said was the truth and what has been going on since mankind.🤔
Some random gender fan is probably reporting your comments as hate speech, just to get CZcams to remove them, then they remove your ability to post comments anywhere, so freedom of speech does not exist here
I find it interesting that people often say it's fine and ok to be gay now, but in the past it was really difficult for people. While it's true that there are legal rights and recognitions now in Western democracies I would say there is still a huge amount of social homophobia. I am someone who never wants to label myself or be labelled. I would guess that I'm largely same sex attracted, but would never call myself a lesbian. I'm happy the Julie Bindle is able to call herself a proud lesbian, but I've just never understood the obsession with external advertising or display of one's sexual identity. To me the only time my sexuality should be relevant to another person is if I or am sexually attracted to them, or they to me... But I really relate to the experience described of Pauli Murray where she might be very in love with women who were attracted to her but say I can't be with you because you're a woman, or I would be with you if you were a man. I was in love with someone in the 1980s who I had a maybe 2yr relationship with and she said I would stay with you if you were a man, but it's not acceptable to society, I can't do this.... I wouldn't say that woman was straight, I would say her internalised homophobia was even worse than mine - I knew from the start I could be attracted to women, I thought it was sort of OK, but never wanted to be labelled for it and I guess that's still the case... she was just in denial despite having a more superficially liberal upbringing... I found the whole thing very distressing... I've never wanted to be part of some "gay" community, what even is that? I just want to be able to be me in society and not judged for who I may choose to love or be loved by. There was still rampant homophobia in Scotland in schools when I was teaching in the 2000s. Lots of bullying. If you don't want to be out loud and proud and perform for the crowd, then you're a problem... if you're prepared to perform for everyone and make a spectacle of yourself, that's OK, we'll not only tolerate you, we'll celebrate you.... if you just want to be you, get real, you must conform to our norms cos you make us feel uncomfortable, we can't label you as some exotic other... that's way too close to home you might bring this thing...
Celebrating pole dancing is ridiculous.
There are other forms of dancing that weren’t specifically set up to turn men on.
Was the man “taking the piss”! As we say in England…..😂
Sounds as though it was much more sinister. Have a look at the proportion of "trans woman" prisoners who are incarcerated for sexual crimes, and make up your own mind.
Weirdly my worlds are colliding in my head - I really love the show Firefly, and there's a character in there who is a sex worker but she went to a prestigious school to learn the art of seduction, like the highest level of the art of union, all the elements of connection and sensuality... There's an interesting thread of tension running through this character's sub plot around what she's doing vs others' perceptions and the way some men treat her badly, and also another main character who just can't cope with what she does and is unkind to her. She's like this phenomenal artist in her field. There are probably thinkpieces about it, I'm not doing justice to it 😆
Im sorry, but if you were to reverse what is being said here and make a statement about a sport saying women should not be allowed to do it as it is a sport only for the male form...it would be completely unacceptable...so i find this attitude really distasteful... the door swings both ways...wanting female only classes is one thing...but saying that men should not even be allowed to be part of a "female only sport" is frankly, outrageous...
Suppose I had a dream where Stella played a whistle to accompany Sasha singing from _Umm Kalthoum's repertoire…_
I volunteered for a police brutality organization starting in 2015 in Minneapolis. BLM has been around since 2013; it surprises me that the hosts didn't hear about it. However, I witnessed it explode and HIJACK the police brutality movement, which wasn't segregated by race previously. Suddenly our organization was overrun by people who only cared about black victims and their families. White people were especially covered up and deliberately ignored. Justine Damond's name isn't on the list of victims on the George Floyd mural despite being a local from Minneapolis. When she was killed and that case was finally taken seriously, some locals complained that it was a black east African cop against a white woman, so now it was suddenly bad or meaningless that he was charged.
I agree with her about dancing but kind of reverse I teach voguing and id prefer it only for other gay men no women, straight or lesbian so I totally can see where she is coming from when it comes to pole dancing, pole dancing is best done by a women and voguing is best done by homosexual man as theres alot of heavy drops to the ground
I used to love pole dancing class!
Belly dancing was my love for a bit of time. I love all kinds of sensual dancing.
@@heidilee658 I tried that too and also loved it!
Did the title of this one change?
Bc da ppp I’ll mic
Enjoyed listening to this till the lady recommended her own blog. As my old mum used to say - self praise is no recommendation.
Nonsense. She has a great blog, and promoting your own work is a standard practice in a podcast.
@@_abracadabra Thank you! 💜
Not sure why polyamory and kink were conflated here. Poly online communities and polyamory are not the same thing. Yes, poly communities are "sex positive" and very woke, but plenty of poly people are not. I'm a gender critical woman, I'm anti-kink, and I don't have monogamous relationships because I'm not interested in them. If I had a partner who was pressuring me to be exclusive with him, that would be pushing my boundaries.
Twenty and third
❤🇬🇧
They aren't, they are erasing all lesbians. I have black fatigue, I am tired of everything being all about blacks all the time.
How many episodes of this podcast are about race? How many videos in your CZcams suggestions are about race? What evidence do you have that everything "is about blacks all the time"? Did someone force you to click on the video after you read the title?
We don't care whether you've got 'black fatigue'. Your fatigue won't silence our voices.
@@hcfuraigon Are you joking? Media in the West is replete with blacks diversity hires. Also, the absurdity of the title of this video proves it. As if lesbians are targeted by race. No, men who pretend to be women want to force themselves into all women spaces. Also, woke ideology is pushing "trans women of colour" as the most oppressed group in the universe. If anything, the most active trans activists are black men pretending to be women. playing the race card and the trans card in the oppression olympics.
@@hcfuraigonto be fair, I can't disagree with their first sentence.
Does this podcast focus on race? No. However, if you look at gender ideology as part of the woke movement with CRT and all the other lenses, race and all the intersectional stuff is a significant part of it, so I can understand where they may be coming from.
The title has the potential to get some fresh clicks but it's also likely to turn a few people away. Many living in a way that supports MLK's dream are suddenly being shoved in the racist box for the color of their skin in the name of "anti-racism". There's bound to be some emotional backlash.
This exact issue is discussed in this episode.
this is what professional victims look like
This is what a professional a**hole looks like.
And not men in dresses crying bigotry?
No, they never claim vicitmhood as the trans ideologues most certainly do. Here are 50+ people who have been fired/had to close their businesses, otherwise lost their livelihoods because they refused to go along with the ideas and imposed speech of the trans ideology. These people are real victims of trans ideology:
M.K. Fain, Kaeley Triller, Sasha White, Kathleen Stock, Maya Forstater, Graham Linehan, Jillian Spencer, Roz Adams, Jo Phoenix, Allison Bailey, David Mackereth, Sheila Jeffreys, Maria Jose Binetti, Eugenia Rodrigues, Jessica Miranda, Priscila Cunha, Kathleen Lowrey, Laura Lecuona, Rachel Rosario Sánchez, Laura Tanner, Julie Szego, Pearl Moon, James Dreyfus, Rachel Meade, Selina Todd, Jenni Murray, Leo Kearse, Hugh Sheridan, Linda Bellos, Simon Fanshawe, Lindsay Ellison, Sall Grover, Colin Wright, Andrew Gold, Louise Distras, Natalie Bird, Sonya Douglas, Claudia Clare, Roisin Murphy, Peter Vlaming, Mary Harrington, Linzi Smith, Elizabeth Weiss, John Parks, Kevin Lister, “Max” - teacher in NSW, Jessica Tapia and Enoch Burke.
They include, across Brazil, Australia, NZ, Canada, Ireland the US, UK, and Mexico, academics, artists, a ceramicist, writers, entertainers, teachers, a social worker, child psychitrists, paramedics, small business owners (who had employees who were consequentially laid off). There are many, many, many more.
Almost certainly a comment from a heterosexual autogynephile.
A "professional victim" being anyone who disagrees with your personal POV, right?
I love listening to your fascinating conversations. Esp the kink discussions- what happened to psychology? DSM was changed so radically, how did that happen in the first place and where are the guardrails?
I’m fortunate to have waited until I was in my late 30s to explore kink. And thank God- I saw so much mind control and enthusiasm for the most deranged scenarios 😮.
I dipped my toes in, and didn’t need to explore further once I settled on wrestling. I’d never reccomend deviant sexual conduct for any woman or young person with no healing or psychosocial awareness in mind first.
Curious about this comment - do you mean wrestling generally or within a sexual context? Just asking because I used to do BJJ (strictly as a sport, lol) and found that the intense level of physicality with another person made so much sense to me. I felt like I was catching up on a childhood devoid of playfighting, or any sort of chucking myself about as a kid, which I needed because I have poor proprioception and ended up in that cycle of it getting worse because physical things were hard for me. It's one of my favourite realisations, how much grappling is just a great thing for a body-mind all round better feeling.
@@sophiafaith you'd probably appreciate Buck Angel's latest episode
@@meretriciousinsolent wrestling yea omg I couldn’t have said it better myself.
It’s a primal way to connect with another human. I don’t like the type of wrestling where the loser gets ****ed
I just like the sensual activity of testing strengths.
I’d love to learn BJJ.
@@meretriciousinsolent yes! I really appreciate the mind-body-spirit connection! I did some kickboxing and I have nice muscles (muscle worship was great too! Good ego boost 😄)
Using such clinical language to describe pole dancing is a self-serving signal seeking to elevate herself above the sex workers who are the original artists women like her steal from. The fact you two were so ready to reward and co-sign her attempt to put herself above and better than the women engaging in her hobby as a means of survival/livelihood/career kind of makes me sick.
You dont get to steal art, techniques, and aethetics from real life sex workers and simultaneously demand the world elevate your status as a woman above them. What she is saying is that it is essentially okay with her if everyone still looks down on sex workers and continues the stigma that contributes to their overwhelming disadvantages when it comes to being the victims of violence and discrimination, as long as she still gets to appropriate art forms they invent & continue to practice without being labeled as adjacent to them.
As a sex worker, i am appalled and disgusted that all three of you would ignore such an obvious opportunity to humanize and destigmatize sex work and instead make a point to prop up your guest as "not like THOSE women"
The overlap between the population you claim to want to help and the more vulnerable cohorts of sex workers is pronounced, to say the least. Way to alienate the people you claim to care about
Unsubbed
Hi, I get what you're saying (and I know that some pole dancers do try to elevate themselves above strippers) but your response is very reactionary and projecting.
Like, you don't even know me or my own background with sex work and you are speaking from a place of total judgment as if you know my whole life when you don't know jack-sh*t and you didn't care to ask before making assumptions. You didn't listen to what I was saying or where I was truly coming from-you just expected the worst intentions out of me and projected that back, all because of your own personal triggers which have nothing to do with me.
I was actually making sure to give due credit to strippers for starting the pole dancing craze, stating that strippers in the early 2000s took exotic dance as an art form and turned it into a female-centric business where we can learn for our own purposes, including for our own fitness or creative expression.
A lot of pole dancers don't even give credit to strippers when speaking of the origins of pole and try to say it came from circus. Nothing I ever said denigrated strippers. I'm just speaking facts.
There's nothing shameful about the origins of pole-it's actually very impressive from a creative and entrepreneurial standpoint and there is nothing wrong or appropriative about women using it as an art or athletic medium, as long as they credit its origins and don't bash women in the trade.
I hope you realize that many strippers also do pole AND teach it as an art form/fitness, enjoying it as an art in safe spaces with other women and that pole dance as an activity IS in fact different than stripping.
Most strip clubs and patrons these days don't even give a rats ass how well you do on the pole or your performance skills--it's all about selling your body. So it is great for women (strippers or not) to have that space where they can be wholly appreciated in their sensual dancing instead of being treated as mere objects, with pole dancing used as a means to an end for a man's pleasure.