Key Mechanics Series 1: Perception
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- čas přidán 13. 08. 2015
- Lookee there! How to make Perception checks badass. Yep, it ain't easy, but here's how to encourage players to boost WIS. Yaherd?
THANKS FOR TUNING IN!
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If there's ONE gripe I have about your channel. The ONLY POSSIBLE problem that I can see is . . . that I can't binge watch your episodes. Every time I watch one, you inspire me to do more with my D&D world, which pulls me away from watching your stuff.
Not much a gripe, really.
More of a compliment. ^__^
7 years later, I am prepping for a game where I need to include a little something extra for scouts. I think to myself "Hey, didn't ol' Hank have a video on this?" Sure enough, and it is solid gold. Here's to ya, Hank. Thanks for having my back.
ANOTHER ABSOLUTE CLASSIC. STILL VIVIDLY REMEMBER WATCHING THIS THE FIRST TIME AND WONDERING WHO IS THIS MAD SAGE? THANKS FOR ALL THE WISDOM AND LAUGHS.
This is probably one place we have a different approach and philosophy. I prefer to roleplay searches and perception as much as possible. At my table, a player shouldn't say "I want to make a perception check." That's a game mechanic, not an activity. I can just tell the player what the character sees, and the player can react intelligently.
For instance, I'd much rather a player say "I'm checking the wall for any discolorations or depressions" or "I'm knocking on the wall to find hollow spaces" than "I'm checking for secret doors." In the first two cases, I probably don't have to make a perception roll, because I've actually decided how this secret door works. I can just tell them what they notice, for the most part.
But I'm not a purist. There's still a place for perception checks, in my opinion.
Agree! I've had players who are more comfortable with saying perception check, and indicating a target.
I like when i player goes this route, so i give then Advantage or some bonus on the tests.
Maybe even downgrade the DC.
I like the roll AND the roleplay aspect xD
Often times, what I encounter with Perception is that players will grab the dice, make a Perception roll, and say "what do I see," when I haven't even called for a Perception roll. It's an erroneous assumption that Perception is used to get the most basic details about your surroundings or that it can automatically reveal more information without doing anything on their part if they're in a dark room or something.
Another thing I don't like about Perception rolls is that when players roll low and the DM tells them "you don't notice anything unusual" or something to that effect, the player knows that their character didn't get complete information, even if just to confirm that there really is nothing unusual. Same goes for when the DM asks the player what their character's Perception score is and rolls it behind their screen: the player knows something is up.
Dungeon World provides a great solution to this issue, IMO, by having the character's actions dictate when a Perception roll is made rather than the player saying "I make a Perception roll." It's like, "What are you doing to warrant a Perception roll? Describe it to me in-game." Furthermore, a successful roll should allow the player to ask one or more questions about what they're investigating, and I like that Dungeon World's approach to this is to ask from a limited list.
As an addendum, if a character has pertinent knowledge skills, they should get to ask questions pertaining to their areas of expertise, such as "Is there magical residue around this spot" for someone who has the Arcana skill or "Is this part of some diabolical ritual" for someone with the Religion skill.
Last but not least, unless circumstances warrant seeing an area in a new perspective, one Perception roll and that's it. No spamming Perception rolls to get as much information as possible; that's metagamey as hell.
I just joined a D&D group at the local geekstore in town...And I have a stealthy-perceptiony-type roguescoutmofo thing going on... I showed up and asked, "Could I join your game group" and they said "Hell yeah! Of course!" I asked if I could be a rogue because I like the edgy people, so they said "Ya, We need one of those!" So it was all cool: "Yeah! I get to be the sneaky scout!" The guy with the Paladin helped me and he suggested I make a good wisdom score so I could have good perception and I wound up boosting it too. And it was the Out of the Abyss thing which rips off your escape from Underdark jail idea...With a couple of criticals, I was able to steal a key, speak elvish to the disgruntled drow guy who would let us out, and then sneak around and scout where to go next, so I felt like my character was important and that was neat-o (so now I hafta try to make the Warlock guy feel important too)...Unfortunately, none of my perception rolls were good, but I look forward to being a better perceiver in the future!!! :)
I know its been 7 years since this video was released but ... man ... you are good :D
I am DMing my first game in a couple of weeks and these videos are golden! Much obliged drunkards.
Rune Smevik Huzzah!
God damnit I fucking loooooove this and the way you present all the things *takes a sip of rum*
Skål!
Bango, ogre dentist, combined strength, and killin' stuff - with perception. pew, pew! Awesome.
You really hit it at 4:38! Thanks Sir. I hope more folks jump on board. It's good.
Dude, dude, dude, I just started checking out your videos, and this is good shit man, I watch many of the d&d CZcams channels, with dungeon craft, dungeon master piece, bill Allen, questing beast being some of my favorites and the ones I mostly use for dm/GM tool kit ideas and info. And your on a level I put those guys on, great shit man, im excited to have a new channel to get ideas/themes from, this is one of the best perception videos out here
Love it. These techniques are concrete creative and formulaic enough for your viewers to take em amd run! You're awesome RH
sorta of a..battle ogre, cannibal, caveman, barbarian miner!!! had me in bits :) sub well earned
@16:42 DND Bachelor party! Oh yes, my bachelor party was an 18-hours-straight amazing session! Best bachelor party ever!
Yeah boy banjo like a big ol badass
Dude, I freaking love your craft videos. I never get to watch your 2 hour hangouts live, but the videos are always entertaining. And ROOOOOMMMM DESSIIIIGGNNN are probably the most amazing thing on CZcams. But this has got to be my favorite video yet.
Really cool to see ways to encorperate the boring old rules like a big ole bad ass. At the end of the day, it's another creative way to force roll playing, and avoiding non stop hack and slash games. keep up the good work, my friend.
man your videos are always top quality. really awesome job keep it up
When my players crit fail a perception check I have them notice an ant on the wall
brilliant!
I dig the background music.
Best intro 10/10
That soup nazi drop killed me:) ahahaha
So true i hate that moment in my current campaigns, We have alot of no soup redudant rolls happening, love your take on this
You're literally my favorite CZcams. Great content!
I enjoy how uplifting and informational your videos are. I wish I had found these tips sooner! You're doing great things man!
I understand the play style difference of "I specifically poke my 10 foot, uh, pole into this pile of debris. Do I find anything?" vs "I perform a perception check. Do I find anything?"
To me and I'm sure many others, the former is cooler and more immersive, but can become too damn slow. This video is the best compromise I've ever seen between the 2 schools. Great work, Drunken Man!
Great comment... there's a ton of talk about immersion and narrative, but brevity and concision are always welcome, too...
"You have returned from your adventure, but I see that Baldwin the Bold-Winner is not with you. What happened?"
"He attempted a Perception Roll on a little pile of gravel."
"The crazy, heroic fool."
I think that the idea of a Crow that has swallowed the Eye of Vecna is a great basis for an adventure.
good old times of videos like this, it was fun it was adventure but latests videos are.... ehm different....hope you will come back
Just de-tuned my geetar and played that little into lick! Love it Hankerin, keep up the awesome vid's!
relatively new to your channel and I have got to say... you bring a new fresh way of thinking about the game. philosophical meets rational meets creative. your channel has cured me of the dreaded DM burnout and has helped me shape my campaign for the better. well done and keep doing what you're doing!
Really Love your channel. As a lover of dnd both as a dm and player this stuff really speaks to me. Always feel like I've taken away something new each time I watch ur videos. Keep it up man 😛
once again man, you've made me rethink my own games!
Thanks for the good ideas regarding perception checks. I was headed this way a little, now I have a guide to help me really flesh that out! Both of my players like to think. :)
Nice retro OGRE for the siege engine. You are an evil genius.
Love your channel and content brother. Amazing tips and advice. Carry on hoss!
The Niels Bohr reference was nice. ^_^ Here’s a scenario for you though:
Since perception has proven to be relative in our contemporary society, we’d like to hack the game as a DM (you tell me whether you think this would be feasible or not). The rule is this: Anytime we do perception checks on our players, we do perception checks on their enemies as well.
For example, say players are tracking down an enemy that is hiding in a dark cave. We make our players roll perception checks to see if they can successfully track or spot the enemy or not. We also have our players’ enemies roll a perception check (this is done by the DM, and can be used to boost or lessen the standard stats of the characters themselves). If the player rolls a lower perception than the enemy, the DM can give his players limited or false information (NOTE: we do not show our players what the enemy rolled however. This dye roll is hidden since it makes sense that the player would not have access to what their enemies can perceive). So, if a player rolls a 2 and the enemy secretly rolls a 6, I will tell the players that they hear noises coming from the back end of the cave. What I don’t tell the players is that (since the enemy rolled a higher perception), the enemies intentionally made that noise as a distraction so as to either (1) aid in their escape, or (2) set up an ambush.
In other words, rather than just setting a standard roll to see whether perception fails or not, perception success rate is determined by how well your party rolls against their opponent (kind of like standard battle scenarios). Perception like this could be a great way to have players work with limited amounts of information (and since the players never can know what their enemies rolled, it keeps them guessing on whether they are getting good information from the DM or not, which, of course, keeps them on their toes and builds suspense). I suppose Werner Heisenberg’s “Uncertainty Principle” would be a better metaphor to use in that situation though. ^_^
***** Competitive perception checks are a standard of the badass DM! Couldn't agree more, if the enemies are capable, they should always be pine-brushing their tracks and making bird noises :p
Drunkens & Dragons: Play D&D Like a Badass Thanks for the quick reply.
By the way, how goes the absinthe search? I just bought a bottle of really nice stuff called Redux Absinthe. It’s made by Golden Moon Distillery in Colorado. If you're interested, you can purchase a bottle through DrinkUpNY.com . It’s kind of expensive, but worth the bang for the buck (very herbal in flavor too).
As always, remember to prepare it correctly (4 parts chilled water for every 1 part absinthe so as to produce a louche effect, which clouds the drink and helps to release all those concentrated aromas and flavors).
Best wishes. ^_^
Just been drinking Malort, and searching for the perfect vodka for my homemade wormwood...
You are giving away your secrets bro! Wow. I'm smiling ear to ear.
yee haw! love the banjo...love the singing...love the videos...i am actually d/ling a few so i will always have them even when i don't have internet available...my fav, most inspiring one, is the one where you show the Tome of Knowledge owledge wledge ledge edge dge ge e.... my own tome is coming along slowly but surely, but i am a big believer in the idea that if you start one by one putting pebbles in a bucket, soon enough you have a bucket full of pebbles...and all those pebbles will be little bits that i can use to describe cities or geography, people, special places and things, and history....it is fun!! thank you hankerin' crazymofo, sr.
Also...This thing you say at the end...about letting all the players shine... I am watching people play Phandelver (I started with the D&D people but got so bored of that I switched to quill, and it is a bit better)... But they get to Cragmaw Hideout and they give meat to the wolves (nice) and then go up the chimney and see the bugbear...Instead of going back down and starting a fire in the chimney to smoke them out and then peg them off as they come out to see what's going on , they decide to all sneak in and attack and, were it not for the mercy of the DM, would have been completely obliterated...I really hate the dungeons with a bunch of goblins, all within 100 feet of each other in an echoey cavern and wolves sounding alarms along with fighting and yelling, that divide it into multiple encounters...Cragmaw is one of those types and it makes absolutely zero sense to me...those goblins would work together and surround the intruding party and make them slaves....Then instead of fighting, they'd have to escape.
Violet Deliriums My version of Cragmaw had PVP GAS in it lol
Drunkens & Dragons: Play D&D Like a Badass yucky.
Excellent stuff! Every video (this one is no exception) I draw inspiration from your tips and suggestions so my skill as a player and planner improves. I find that one does not become a master of anything if they rely on their own mind, but rather they become a master in a craft (or game) by seeing what works and using all of what they are taught and experience from a group. Keep the videos coming and you'll keep getting those thumbs up from me. :) Strength, Honor, and Nat 20 Perception checks.
Makoworgen boooosh!
Dead on about how dull the checks usually are. In the campaign I'm in right now, the GM is fairly new to it, so these sorts of opportunities aren't present. But you know what is? Plenty of chances for some sweet-ass bluffs (possibly my favorite thing to do in D&D)! Looking forward for your video on Charisma and Social mechanics.
Fantastic tips my Man!
+theDMsCraft awesome words from 'the master!' thnx! great to have you here!
The bushes outside are safe good sir.
I love the videos! Keep up the good work. 😎
excellent vid, thanks Hank
love your stuff
Loving your videos, all keep me watching till the end. I know as a DM with so much going on its tough to keep on top of rules, we will get things wrong. But a 25ft drop killing a cr6 mage does not sit, regardless of epic perception use. As its 1d6 per 10ft drop, a 2d6 fall shouldn't have done the job here, maybe a prone/stun and allow them to get up on him by foot once he was knocked down. Going to take these principles forward into my games though, thank's for the advice!
5:50 OUTSTANDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ha ha ha collecting scrota?!?you rock dude. like button.
Really love your channel. I've been reading through the books and possibly trying to get my first game together because of content like yours. Was wondering if it would be possible if you could make a series or just a one-off video on making the adventure. Like going through the picking out of traps and enemies and environments. Thanks for all the amazing videos!
Rowdy Art It shall be done!
Super awesome channel :D
Great vids man, I'm subscribing!!!
+Crafters Central welcome!
It is the DMs job to give a so called perception.Not a die role.That's why I play AD&D.Questions from the PC's about this or that depending location stats etc, are all part of a story or situation.Fuck perception checks.Imagination works best.
+lowe505 hehe they go hand in hand! each group of players is different, too, in how much they want to "narrate" and how much they just want to play a good mechanical game...room for all!
+Drunkens & Dragons: Play D&D Like a BadassFor Mechanics I agree Hank.Hey man since I got your attention I just wanted to say your channel is by far the most fun D&D channel out there.Keep up the good vids,peace.
huzzah! thanks for tuning in!
The 3rd example (which I love) strikes me as more of Investigation than Perception in 5e terms, not that it really matters.
Most excellent, but I don't want to have disadvantage on my persuasion rolls when I cast 'speak with plants'. Gots to be kind to the bushes. :P
I use a floating DC and allow the players to use their descriptions of what they are looking for or what they are doing and lower the DC with the better they do. They could even talk it down to an automatic success. If they say they are looking for something reasonable, I put it in the room. Maybe even have them spot it across the room in a difficult place to get to. I hate it when a player simply says they are performing a perception check and rolls a dice. I usually make those DCs a 20 or give them something generic. Likewise, if they climb into a nasty privvy and search it... I make sure I put a magic item in it... lol
+Roger Farley niiiice
+Roger Farley Floating would be fun! That's cool you let them try to outsmart you in a way.
Violet Deliriums i think it encourages them to add to the narrative and be more immersed instead of just slingin dice and addin modifiers. I reward their contribution. "Perception check!... I rolled a 11.... What did i see?" is not narrative. How about "i am going to search the book shelf looking for anything that might be of value or importance" shouldnt require a roll. A carefully hidden secret door on the west wall with a DC15 gets lowered when i hear "i am going to search the west wall for secret doors by pushing and tapping on the wall while listening for a sound difference and feeling for and exploring any cracks or seams that might suggest a door."... Hell... You have to reward that... DC5....
agr33!
+Roger Farley Maybe that is why i like the idea...I like the narrative and character role playing a lot more than that combat... I just joined a group and am playing for the first time since 1980s and I was so happy they needed a sneaky and perceptive rogue to do tricks and scout around and whatever rather than get up front and tank or blast people with nuclear explosions... So far, my character has been very useful to the group and that is fun!!! :) But that fun requires a cool DM too!!!
ahahah dat intro
Have you found that the group, even unknowingly may meta every room? For instance, if the BBEG is obviously, even upon a cursory view, far more powerful a foe than they could handle on their own. Do they then immediately ascertain there is a "gimmick" somewhere in the room or in a potential room that will counter the threat.? If the room is also sparsely adorned, would it not seriously limit the guess work on what the secret is?
its a good thing to be wary of... you never want them on a gimmick hunt, that waters down the story. I liek to try and keep them guessing to avoid that problem
ahahaha you're talking about me! I swear i didn't noticed my reflex in the screen! i'm sorry!
:D :D
next pic i promise no reflexes and pants on!! :D
P.S. Great vid man!!!
the more i watch your videos the more i realize that my DM sucks
jmet1lv Halp heem/hurr!
Drunkens & Dragons: Play D&D Like a Badass i gave him a link to your videos
:D to a brighter future!
@Runehammer. Is there no end to your talents?
Getting ready for my next (second) game session. Of course, I am staring at my player's sheets and reviewing backgrounds for hooks. Using perception is really awesome. Foreshadowing on failed rolls is good, too. My goal is to get good at conveying information. Have you found that players often miss details? Do you work information via multiple sources - pointing at the same hook or detail, but using multiple sources? Or do you just slog on and let the players deal with whatever they missed? thx
i am too A D D for that ... I just live in the moment as a DM
Cool. I will need to work on my improv. Not quite there, yet. Thx!
I'd love your input on this situation: a player fails his perception roll then states "I'll make another perception check". Do you increase the DC? Impose a skill use time limit? Tell him he's SOL?
yeah..it dont work that way..on hsi next turn he can attmept again ONLY if he has a more specific target of investigation...
yeah, the thing is: the character doesn't know he failed, the character thinks he looked/searched as well as he could. So I'd only let him search again if it was in a situation with constant menace, and even that, i would choose the moment when he would be able to do it again, since (for me) an check matters for the complete situation of the action, not for an pre determined duration
also legit!
again great ADVICE... what really kills for me as a dm, wich is similar to this. darkvision!!! there is always one that has this in a party. how do you deal with this ,in the type of terrain style you use???
I almost treat things as if all characters have darkvision...hidden things are hidden by other means, cuz whats dark and whats not is so annoying...
good info. wish my players used their character sheet stats better.
David Crosier Wishing is for gnomes. Take action!
Is there any way you could recommend setting up the environment for perception checks when you're not playing tabletop? Any way of describing the environment as to not give everything away but make it investigable?
+tomacze44 Oh yeh just yer basic theatre of the mind style...provide one text blob for each space, that text invites closer looks. closer looks is an easy word cue to get the perception behavior to happen..
lmao I wish I could sub twice, dude! Goooooood shit!
+Ian Hogan good to have ya! and thnx!
No problem! It's my first time DM'ing and that was truly helpful! Enjoying your other vids so far, haven't found a single one I don't laugh for entirely too long than I should on!
Hey great video. I got a question since you bother reading them, I recently found your channel so I don't know I you've discussed this already. I play DM with a hybrid of D&D and descent, using the later's mechanics and pieces to make it easier for me to focus on making a story rather than reading rules forever. My problem is that I am having a difficult time to give the idea that they are facing a mortal danger . Since they have played those monsters they always forget that I change the stats and they go berserk style, leaving everything on their luck, which sometimes works but sometimes not. Make a long story short, how do convince they players who act "hero like" that sometimes they are outleveled? I believe this brings a greater immersion through the connection between the player and the character.
tell them "you are outleveled, prepare to die" and be ready to deliver on that.
What Ren Faire do you attend? I work at northern and a weekend or two at southern in California
dat wa doe
I have one player that is super paranoid and always plays high perception characters. Can't get anything past him
What levels were the PCs in these situations?
So how would you modify these lessons for a game that's run off the grid? Do you like the Dungeon World discern realities method?
Grids and perception aren't bedfellows... I don't see a change
@@Runehammer1 Did not mean to suggest that they were. What I meant was that since much of the advise was focused on inviting players to investigate the literal terrain of the game board, with tiles or gold coins, etc. how would you invite players to investigate the mind coins of you imagined terrain? Are you drawing pictures and including little hints in the image, or do you have a strategy for describing something that differentiates a detail worth investigating from a detail which exists to set the mood or enrich the image?
Not to sporting of me to ask questions about advice you gave almost 5 years ago, I know.
got into the terrain game, tons of fun but hard. how do u get the smooth surface on your styrene?
mill with a sentoku knife, and use the naturally smooth sides whenever possible
Drunkens & Dragons: Play D&D Like a Badass thanks a bunch dude. ill try it out.
I don't bother with perception/investigation rolls you either see it or you don't, if I can I tend to even remove it from the system all togther. Games have been far more interesting and players pay attention since they arent waiting for the DM to ask them.
This was really helpful thanks, also what is the name of the song in the background?
+Benjamin Langdon one of my original tracks...all that music is mixed into my 1 Hour of Battle music vid..
+Drunkens & Dragons: Play D&D Like a Badass Thanks for replying so quickly. :)
always!
And, what about Passive Perception on DnD 5e?
I'm having trouble yet, knowing when to use it against using the roll.
yeh the fact everyone is confused by it. why use it. I PASS on passive perception
Dude, great video, really! But please, turn the volume on the music down a bit...I find it too distracting. Thanks!
yeah..bagged bg music entirely...
Speaking of the music what’s that song called? It’s awesome
More pleasd
i dont know when to use perception and when to use investigation. most of these i'd usually ask for an investigation roll
investigation to me is looking into very specific, small detail. perception is noticing and scanning for new information on a larger scale
Dear drunk: What do you do when your player's aren't smart?
have more fun
Dammit please does anyone play a game on face book i could play with?Hmu if you do. If not. Lets start one
like play by mail? there are sevral groups out there...just take time to pick through em... like conan PBM back in the 80's.
The background music is really offputting.
yeh, I stopped that long ago...
lol your not old yet. You can keep your base stats for the next decade lol
I think much of your problem stems from allowing players to state "I roll a perception check." Characters never make checks, they attempt actions. Once a character attempts an action it's up to the DM to request a check from the player if indicated. If you stopped letting players 'make an xxx check' in place of describing their character's actions I believe a lot of the problems you describe would go away.
+Edward Krusling well put. Often, though, player habits and style kick in...especially a group that's been together a while...they hit 50/50 on rp and MAKE ROLL GRAA! lol
music is really distracting :(
yeh im not sure what i wsthinknback then
@@Runehammer1 no worries brother, still good stuff