12 teams, 38 games: Why Scotland's League Is So Complicated?
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- čas přidán 27. 09. 2021
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The Scottish Premiership is the top-flight of Scottish football and comprises 12 teams. And yet each season is 38 games long.
38 into 12 doesn’t go, obviously, so how does that work?
More importantly, why does it work that way?
Written by Seb Stafford-Bloor, illustrated by Craig Silcock.
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#SPL #ScottishFootball - Sport
It was the 2018-19 season when Hearts finished above St Johnstone, not 2019-20. Our mistake.
Also, the calculation should be 38 into 11 not into 12. Its still true though
You also misspelled Livingston.
It's not been the SPL for a number of years either
Its also ran by the most incompetent tools on the planet. Just an important fact you forgot to mention.
@@JoshAston23 boo! Joe Devine and JJ "Mallard" Bull are excellent men
It’s actually quite good in the fact that the split means there’s always a good relegation battle and that teams going for the title don’t have the advantage of playing lower placed teams.
Down side is 6/7 place when 7th can have more points than 6th and still be 7th.
As opposed to what, all teams playing each other equal number of times in a normal and more sensible league?
@@daviebirrell6685 But you could also argue that 7th only finished with more points than 6th because they got to play the bottom 5 teams, whereas 6th had to play the top 5.
Bro it’s a two team league
@@jeremey9818 don’t think that’s a good argument at all to be perfectly honest pal
Talking about complicated league system, I want to know more about South American leagues system, where many leagues are divided into Apertura and Clausura, and how relegations are determined through coefficients ranking.
It's not that complicated to be fair. The easiest way of seeing it is as if apertura and clausura are different competitions held in the same year. That means that every year there will be two national champions.
Another thing to note is the fact that the final standings in clausura or apertura will give qualification to either Copa libertadores or copa Sudamericana, because these tournaments are also held in the two halves of the year.
On the other hand, relegation works by having a separate table, independent from the actual table of each competition. The standings in said table are determined by the average points that each team has achieved in the last 3 league seasons. By the end of every year the 2 two worst teams get relegated. This has been heavily criticized due to the fact that many times team risk relegation in spite of having played great recent campaigns. On the other hand, it guarantees certain stability in first divisions for recently promoted teams as it protects them from being relegated the immediate season after they are promoted.
@@manuelmonsalve4914 that's complicated mate,
Lol... May as well have no promotion or relegation
@@manuelmonsalve4914 Since 2017 the Libertadores and Sudamericana have been held simultaneously and all year long, so qualification is determined by a year-long table combining Apertura and Clausura results. So like a regular league table.
On paper, in the SA format, the promoted sides are at disadvantage because they only played at most two seasons within the last three seasons.
I had to format a London Handball league a few years back. There were 10 teams in the league and all thought that 9 games each was too few but 18 would be too many, so I borrowed this format. It's definitely an imperfect compromise but sometimes the best of the options available.
So 13 games?
You wouldn't divide 38 by 12, you would divide it by 11.
Haha good spot
Tifo really did play themselves
Nah, Scottish football is so bad that each team is usually it's own worst opponent, so we count that as another opponent.
@@Hyndergogen9 wow. so funny. comedic genius. haha scottish football bad. Does your mum love you?
@@aidanfirth1581 Nah, but it's fine, since your Mum does. Speaking of which, she told me you have been acting out in school recently, so you're grounded and not allowed to sniff lead paint anymore.
00:14 - 12 wouldn't need to go into 38, you would need to prove 11 doesn't go into 38. 20 doesn't go into 38 either (EPL). but 19 does... teams don't play themselves.
Summary:
- 12 teams play each other 3 times = 33 games.
- The league is then split in half, top 6 and bottom 6.
- teams from each half play each other once = 5 games.
- Total: 38 games.
thanks
When the league is split into two, how do they decide how many games are played at home or away for each team? I’d it by luck or some sort of system? Seems unfair that a team might plays 3 games away while other teams player only two away
@@mohammadabalkhail7663 I assume they work it out based on how many home/away games they played in the initial 33. I don’t know though tbh and wondered the same thing. It does say in the video though that clubs complain about it being unfair because they can play more away games than others so maybe it’s random?
yeah i somehow knew this before this video 😂 really complicated
@@PipJim80 yes basically that. As it will be the 4th game of the season against each opponent, they work it out so there's been 2 home and 2 away. It does sometimes mean that a team will play 20 home/18 away games (or other way round) across the whole season though.
Out of the 5 post-split teams, you might have played 1 team twice at home already and once away, then played the other 4 teams only once at home and twice away. It can be a bit complicated so sometimes you end up playing 3 games against a certain opponent at the same venue to try keep the total number of home and away games equal(ish) across the season.
It gets repetitive when you can potentially play 7 fixtures against the same opposition in one season (4 League matches, 1 League Cup, 1 Scottish Cup, 1 Scottish Cup replay). A lot of fans want more teams adding to the top flight, but for some reason the SPFL and SFA are very much against reconstruction. Infact they are pretty much against doing anything that will help Scottish football 🙄
Do a video about Liga MX they have a "interesting" playoff and regulation scenarios
There is a video about Liga MX on Tifo IRL, though dont think it covers the league format specifically in much detail. Good video though
They already did. Alex did a "why you should care about" on it in the tifoirl
I thought they got rid of relegation with the latest format. I could be mistaken
@@NPJuve16 yeah the Mexican federation eliminated promotion/relegation a couple years back. Rumor has it to merge successfully with the mls in the near future including other reasons
In just over 3 minutes i finally understand how the Scottish Premiership finally works!
Something new I've discovered too!
@Stephen Greenhorn why is that an issue? If you don't show up and get the results at the end in higher stakes games, do you really deserve it? Either way, the fight over 6th or 7th isn't the biggest deal in the world when you consider how often the 6th placed team in the efl championship promote into the premier league over the 3rd or 4th placed team who likely have a bigger lead than just a couple points. And that's decided over a maximum of three games after playing a long 46 game season.
@Stephen Greenhorn i mean that stands to reason because the 6th placed side may end up with trips to ibrox and parkhead which is a slightly tougher ask than games vs st mirren or ross county. so obviously their chances of picking up points post split are massively decreased. the team ahead after 33 games deserves to be there in most cases
The league in Northern Ireland works in this way too. The only difference being that there is a European playoff between the teams in 3-7 meaning that there is something meaningful for the teams in the bottom half of the split to play for at the end of the season.
And wales
@@jameshumphreys9715 And Finland.
@@rizka7945 and Israeli football too
You could have just said "so that there are four old firm games" and ended the video there honestly
They could easily do a 14 team league. Everyone plays each other twice (26 games). Then the league divides into two mini leagues of 7 teams and each team plays each other twice more (12 games). 38 game season BOOM!
16-16-16 mate. 30 games per season makes it harder for Rangers and Celtic to win every year, which means we will end up with new champions. Mathematically it's the best option because teams will take points off the Old Form throughout the season which gives others a chance as they will not be playing the old firm 8 times a season.
Make league 1 into 16 teams and get rid of league 2. The top 6 in prem win a place in league 1 for the B teams, that will rotate also as the top 6 changes each season.
Lastly, open up the league to the Highland and Lowland leagues for promotion also, not the play off scam we currently have.
I have always wondered what makes your videos so top-notch.
Informative? Yes.
Good visuals? Yes.
Easy to understand? Yes.
Your narrating voice? Absolute YES!
Similar system in Denmark, for the past few seasons(don't remember exactly when it was introduced), except all teams play each other twice, then it splits, and they play each team within the group twice as well - and there is playoff matches for relegation, and one or two of the European tournament spots. Not really sure if I like it or not, but each team used to play each other 3 times, which meant the top teams from the previous season got an advantage, as they were given extra home games.
The relegation playoffs have luckily been abolished so it's just the two worst teams that are relegated.
@@Uebeltank Shame. The relegation playoffs were true marmite.
Great informative video that is very much to the point. Thank you.
You guys at Tifo are legends! I’ve always wondered about this but never had the inclination to do the research to find out the answer.
1:11 Livingston is spelt wrong.
1:19 Hearts finished 12th that season and were relegated.
Neither of these errors matter, I just felt like pointing them out, still a great short explainer video.
"Hearts finished 12th that season and were relegated." Never has a sweeter sentence been uttered.
@@Priority76 Hibernian Fan?
J-League system is interesting too.
The league resets at the midway point of the season during a break and the two winners face each other in a final at the end of the season to determine the league champion.
Edit: Someone mentioned in the reply, but this system is no longer in place, I hadn't realised it changed. My apologies!
What if the same team is top of the league after the restart ?
@@te4500 Good question. I did some reading and it isn't like Paulihoe stated.
First of all, the system in question was only played between 2015 and 2017. Nowadays J-League plays what we would consider a regular season with every team playing every other team exactly twice. In the aforementioned seasons however there was a tournament to determine the champion between the three best teams of the season plus the respective winners of the rounds 1 and 2, if those two weren't already amongst those three teams. So it could be anything between a three teams tournament and a five teams tournament. The best team of the overall season was set for the final, while the other two to four teams played a knock-off round in order to find the second contender.
@@lonestarr1490 Yeah they only kept the system for a few years, although it was ran in the past as well. it was the split-system last time I looked into it and assumed it hadn't changed. My bad! :(
Another interesting part about j-league is you can fill your entire team without any japanese players provided they belong to an ASEAN country
@@reuben524 And this is wrong as well. J-League teams are allowed up to four players without japanese citizenship. Of these four players at least one must be a citizen of another AFC country. That's the rule since 2009.
The Cymru Premier uses a fairly similar system, except the first phase has each team play eachother twice instead of 3 times, and the second phase sees a further 2 games against each side in a team's half of the table, for a total of 32 games and teams always playing 50% of games at home.
They should honestly use that format instead
For a few years now there's a similar system in Austria but with each team having the same amount of home and away games:
- 12 teams playing against each other twice
- After 22 games, split in two groups with the points divided in two
- In each play-off the teams play against each other twice.
- After 32 games, the 7th and 8th play one match, the winner of which plays two games against the 5th (or 6th, depending on how many clubs can play international). And the winner of that duel gets the last place in the UEFA tournaments.
Nobody likes that system but I think at least it's better than the unjust Scottish mode.
Love to see you guys doing Scottish Football videos but at least spell Livingston correctly 😑
Well if you recall correctly with the season they were talking about, it was actually the famous explorer that played in the spl, not the town.
@@johnl4211 😂
Who cares
not me crusty bench
14 yo me loved ur montages back when you done them. Good to know you like Scottish football
It says a lot about the coverage of Scottish football that I live in England yet had no knowledge of this format.
Has there been any development for the proposed BeNeliga? Can’t find anything new since March this year. Would be great to hear about it if there’s more news.
For the health of the game an 18 team league with 2 games each would be ideal. There are some good clubs in our Championship that would all benefit. It's not just the Old Firm who dominate the game, Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are all contributing to the current situation which is a poor offering overall.
Having just moved to Scotland from England, this is very good timing
Congratulations!
Welcome to Scotland
Welcome Luca. :) Where in Scotland did you move to?
Great to see you doing SPFL, now can you do a video about Dundee FC being a wee team and living in our shadow? Cheers lads.
1:12 - Spelling Livingston with an 'e' is a hangable offence in Livingston!
Thanks for the explanation which really complicated.
Maybe it would be interesting if Scottish Premiership used the same system as some latin American leagues, two tournaments apertura (opening) and clausura (closing) season and the champion of the season being defined in a final between the two teams. Like Uruguay an intermediate championship could be used to provide more matches
We have the same system in Denmark, and it works well. We only have enough players for 5-6 good teams, so we need a system that encourages a few good clubs by letting them play against each other.
Have TIFO done a video on the Jupiler League in Belgium? Very interesting structure that personally I find pretty exciting
You guys have spelt Livingston incorrectly but not to worry as it just a large car park on the outskirts of Edinburgh.
thank you tifo, I've been trying to figure this out for a while
I think the league should be extended to 14 teams where..
-Everyone plays each other twice (home & away) =26 games
-league then splits top 7 and bottom 7 and everyone plays each other twice again (home & away) =12 games
-Still 38 games season.
-Everyone gets equal share of home and away games.
I think they thought about that, but I think it was decided they didn't have enough quality teams(?). I do not think there's enough professional teams in the area.
@@charlesray9674 agree, I'd rather the league down to 10 for 36 games, BUT in return have the premiership sides enter the scottish cup and league cup a round earlier, rangers and celtic will always win the league bar Aberdeen pulling a Leicester but cup upsets for lower league teams+ticket revenue would surely help, plus might help divvy up the silverware a bit more
@@liverpool951000 I think the leagues already too repetitive at 12. Dropping to 10 is a terrible shout in my opinion. You'd be better off just having Rangers play Celtic once a month to decide the title and scrap the rest of the games.
I like the sound of that but the teams likely to finish in the bottom half of the split would probably not vote for it as they'll only be guaranteed 2 visits from the Old Firm, whereas currently they are guaranteed a minimum of 2 and can receive up to 4
Informative video Tifo people.
It’s clear this system only “benefits” two teams. I say benefits like that because when they get to the champions league play off they crumble.
Don’t know why it’s so hard to had extra teams in instead of continue with this system
as they said it would dilute the competition. Revenue would have to be shared more meaning each club would make far less without any real boost with any clubs that would be coming in.
but it doesn't, there were 4 old firm matches in a league season prior to this change. Also scottish teams doing well in europe benefits the entire league by making more european competition spots available so it is in everyones interest that rangers/celtic or whoever do as well as possible in europe. putting in extra teams dilutes the competition as mentioned before, which means more less interesting games which means the league becomes less entertaining and could possibly negatively impact ticket sales and the competitiveness of the league overall.
The split was made so one team couldn’t complain about another having easier games in an end of season title race. Also makes relegation battles better. Kilmarnock getting relegated last season being a good example.
@@scottwhitley3392 I get what you’re saying but before gerrard Celtic won their league 9 times, surely that can’t be normal? And rangers have also done that… apart from Rangers doing well in the Europa league recently they both struggle in champions league qualification. My point is in my opinion I think things need to be relooked at in that league to make the league more competitive.
@@keenancerff5359 How many times did Bayern and Juventus win their league? The spfl doesn’t benefit from massive sky sports revenue like the premier league (even though Scottish subscribers pay around £180million per year in sky sports subscription fees). It’s not normal for a country of Scotlands size to have 2 clubs the size of Rangers and Celtic in the first place. Celtic won 9IAR due to Rangers having a financial meltdown. As for champions league qualification. Make Arsenal and Spurs ect play 6 qualifiers against good teams half way through their season whilst themselves are still in their pre-season like Rangers and Celtic have to and I doubt they’d make it to the groups. Aye Scottish football is unbalanced but it does it best with the almost negligible resources it has.
You should make a video about the Danish league, its very interesting.
thanks for information i was confuse when i watch their league table last season 😂
They can do what Austria does. 12 teams, everyone plays everyone twice to start (22 games). League gets split into top 6 and bottom 6 teams, point totals get cut in half. Top group plays all other top group teams twice, same with bottom group (10 more games). Season ends at 32 games.
I feel the Hosting problem migt be fixed by having the regular fase be 2 round so 22 games, and the divided league also 2 rounds so 10 games. That way we have 32 game league to alleviate the calendar load.
The Belgian and other leagues are even more complex. They play to a split, after which the points accumulated are halved and then the teams play the teams in their section
Looks at title, works near the same way as the Danske Bank league (Northern Irish league).
Who probably borrowed this idea from them. Only difference is they have a play off in order to determine who gets the final European spot.
Funny that the 3F Superliga (Danish top league) works almost this way as well 😅 didn't know Danske Bank sponsored the top flight of Northern Irish football
So does the Austrian Bundesliga.
I think(i am just someone going off the formatting FIFA uses for it no clue if its correct or not but league format is the one thing EA seem to be decent at doing)
There was a time when Scottish football was the zenith of football. Celtic Lions of the 60's, and Rangers still being able to attract some brilliant players like Gaza and Brian Laudrup. Somewhere along the line, it was lost. Hope Scottish football gets back to those heights again ⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽⚽
👏👏👏 well said
not sure what was cause of the downfall
Perhaps complacency when modern football was going full steam ahead
Love your videos mate ♥️
Would also be great to see a few eastern european clubs build themselves back up to their old glory
Me who did a 10 year fm save in Scotland
"Obviously"
Excited for a video about the proposed BeNeLiga
I think the better format would be:
12 teams double round robin = 22 games
Split in half, top 6 and bottom 6.
teams in each half double round robin = 10 games
total: 32 games. only 2 less games than Bundesliga
I agree - this is also exactly the format of the Danish Superliga
The point of the one-legged matches once they split the league, it's to make both the European football and relegation battle way more crazy and emotional. I think that playing two-legged matches once they split the league would make those battles less interesting tbh
Bisognerebbe pure dimezzare i punti, per ridurre i distacchi, soprattutto in un campionato dove Rangers e Celtic asfaltano tutte le altre.
Personally have always loved this type of system and would not only welcome an adaption into bigger (more prestigious) leagues, but also think it may not even go far enough.. I would imagine mixing the bottom group with the top group from the next lower tier league instead of a playoff or direct promotion/relegation. Never going to happen though
The Welsh Premier League does a similar thing, having twelve teams, and splitting into two after 22 games (each team playing each other twice), and then having another 10 games in each conference (each team in conference playing each other twice again). The way the league tries to incentivize the bottom half of the split is by having the 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th teams enter a playoff at the end of the season, to contest the last spot in Europe, so there's something to play for in the bottom half other than just avoiding relegation.
Its not _that_ complicated really, but I can see why it would be confusing at a quick glance, expecting other UK leagues to copy what England does.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
This system is very straightforward. The only problem (in SPL) is how you schedule the final five matches.
I don't know if the Dutch league still has the "period" system where every ten matches is "season" and after the ten matches, the club with most points for that period enters a playoff at the end of the season for a chance to play Liga Europa next term. That's confusing!
Worth pointing out that in 1999/00 (roughly) our wise SFA turned out Sky’s offer of many millions of £, Sky would ultimately head to the English Championship and offer them the same terms, which they accepted.
Be interesting to see how things would have been different if people had left their Ego at the door
I support Aberdeen, Inverness CT and Ross County, I love the Scottish league.
I think that Scotland, Wales and England should co-operate at more cross border competitions in British soccer / football.
I do not support merging the leagues, as that would destroy the history of Scottish clubs, and people would think a British League was just a continuation of the English leagues.
I want the best of both worlds where we keep our own leagues, but have extra cross border cups like the old Anglo-Scottish Cup on top of domestic and European football.
If they merged the English and Scottish leagues, then there are top Scottish Premiership clubs who would struggle to be put in the 3rd tier of a British League.
I do not support having a British football league. I would rather have 3 strong national leagues on the island of Great Britain rather than 1.
I would also be happy to have Northern Irish and Republic of Ireland club sides represented in a cross border British and Irish trophy. But that would need to be called a British and Irish Premier Cup.
But in this comment I will mention a cross-border cup between Scottish, Welsh and English sides,
I do not support merging the leagues, but I do support cross border cups all the way down the levels. To add some cross border banter.
My favourite idea is a British Premier Soccer Cup, where all English Premier League and English Championship sides that have not qualified for Europe, plus all Scottish Premier sides, and selected Welsh - Cymru Premier sides play in a group stage trophy, leading to a final.
The benefits for Scottish sides would be financial, status and competition. The Scottish sides would get to play massive sides from England, would gain huge TV rights, and attendance boosts.
I think if this trophy could generate even 40 million quid for the leading Scottish sides, then this could enable clubs for the size of Glasgow Celtic and Glasgow Rangers to win the European Champions League, Europa League or Europa Conference League. 40 million quid each for Celtic and Rangers. The other Scottish Premiership sides would benefit also.
I do not want Scottish sides to join the English League as it would make Scotland look like it was part of England. I want the best of both Worlds where we keep our own leagues but have extra cross border trophies on top. So we can have 3 strong leagues in Great Britain.
All it would need is a few tens of millions of pounds to be pumped into Scottish football by a cross border trophy to help Scottish soccer.
The Welsh Cymru Premier sides would have transformational change if they could enter some sides in a cross border British Premier Soccer Cup. At present there are already sides like Cardiff City, Wrexham, Newport County and Swansea City playing in the English league system. But if the Welsh Cymru Premier wants to improve then it could enter a select group of clubs into a cross border British Premier Soccer Cup.
Welsh people love English soccer. It would transform Welsh Premier soccer if a few of their clubs played in a competitive cross border cup. If clubs like The New Saints, Connah’s Quay Nomads, and Newtown could play top clubs from the English leagues on top of domestic and European soccer, it would transform them in terms of attendances, status and TV rights.
The English would benefit from playing this. The teams that have not qualified for Europe would get a new version of European cross border football, where they get to visit Scotland and Wales. It would take limited amounts of money to do this, yet it would have positive benefits for Scottish and Welsh league soccer. It would transform the potential of Scottish and Welsh club soccer. If the English really want to help Scottish and Welsh soccer, then instead of annexing our leagues, and instead of taking our biggest clubs then cross border cups on top of domestic and European football would help.
The Welsh and Scottish v English passion.
This would exploit the passion of the rivalry between Scotland, Wales and England. It would be intense and passionate.
Travel.
Travel would not be too tough.
A British league would be a bad idea because leading and small Scottish sides could be travelling multi-hundred miles journeys every week. I love the banter of the Scottish v English matches. I support Aberdeen, Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Ross County, and I would love them to play English sides every season but not 20 times a season, as that would be too difficult to travel for players and fans.
A British League would be too much travel for Scottish clubs. Many clubs would be travelling into England 20 times a season which is too many long trips.
But the advantage of a British Premier Soccer Cup is that we could have Great British sports matches, without it becoming too many cross border trips. For Scottish clubs we could have 7 to 8 trips into England a season, so we get the fun and novelty of cross border rivalry, without it becoming monotonous.
So for Scottish sides it would be great.
For English sides the EPL and English Championship sides can afford to travel to anywhere on Great Britain.
For Welsh Cymru Premier sides, the benefits in terms of status and finances would so massive that it would not matter that they had to do long journeys. Especially when you consider that Colwyn Bay, Rhyl, Bangor City and Caernarfon had played in the English non-league system. So if these sides could play entire seasons in the English non-league system for years. Then surely big Welsh Premier sides could play in a handful of games into England in a group stage trophy.
Also many club teams in rugby union are playing in a league involving Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Italian and South African club sides.
And when you consider the trips that teams have to do in Australian, Indian, Chinese, USA, Canadian, Mexican, Russian, and the Brazilian sports leagues, a trip once a season from Inverness to Coventry is not too much.
Games
There would be massive games like Aberdeen V Everton, Glasgow Celtic v Cardiff City, Motherwell v The New Saints, Connah’s Quay Nomads v Ross County, Glasgow Rangers v Aston Villa, Dundee United v Leeds United, Hibernian v Coventry City, Wolverhampton Wanderers v Heart of Midlothian,, St Johnstone v Blackpool, Dundee v Newcastle United, Birmingham City v St Mirren and Livingston v Caernarfon.
UEFA allowed the Scottish to have English, Welsh, and Irish sides in the Scottish Challenge Cup, so UEFA would probably be OK with this.
So, instead of it being 4×11 they went to a split, but not the type of split that makes sense in 2×11+2×5, rather they went for a less fair system of 3×11+5 to make 38matchdays and not lower the number to 32.
So in a sense, it's basically a 33-game season with a 5-week playoff system to determine a champion and relegation?
Kinda reminds me of NASCAR's Sprint Cup.
Yes, exactly that. it is a good fight for europe now with the new conference league 5 teams can potentially have a euro spot and 1 team left out.
@@daviebirrell6685 No it's not that. The points don't get reset for some sort of sprint at the end. Everyone keeps their points. Sometimes a team have already won the championship by the time the split comes around.
It's not that much an outlier in Europe, 15 leagues do a split. Most common is the system in Austria, Denmark, Finland, Slovakia and Wales with the 12 teams playing home and away, then splitting the division and having the top and bottom six play each other home and away again but that only leaves 32 games and that might be too few games for the Scottish clubs. Malta do the same but with the points from the first 22 games halved before moving on to the Championship and Relegation groups.
Bulgaria are the only league in Europe that split their top league into three, the top six playoff for the league title, the bottom four in what seems like a cut-throat home and away group with only one survival place available and the 7th to 10th teams play in an almost meaningless group with the possibility of a Europa Conference League spot available for the winners (if they can beat the 4th placed team in the Championship group).
Belgium which is almost always winner of the most complicated league system in Europe are rather sedate this season, 18 teams, normal home and away season of 34 games, bottom team relegated, 2nd bottom facing 2nd top of First Division B in a playoff and then the top 8 in a system of playoffs for the European places if half the clubs don't get relegated for matchfixing first.
For UEFA and FIFA tournaments I like the Swiss Tournament System, its much fair to get the better team.
League is so gritty I love it
that's actually the best league system and we all should follow this to make things even more challenging
can you do a video on the welsh football system?
as a scot, I can tell you that there is a quirk every season. since they only work out the last 5 games ater the first 33 It`s almost mathematically impossible for there not to be. they basically pick 6 teams to have 17 home - but of course if 4 of those end up in one section then one team ends up with 20 home games, whil someone else gets 20 away games. This happens quite often. and of course even if you manage to get six 17 home teams in one section, the odds of being able to the make everyone be 2 home 2 away against the 5 others in the section is ridiculously small. Last season I think they had one team having in fact played 2 home games against everyone in theie section, so of course they then had to have a 3rd home game against 2 of them.
Essentially the start out trying to make it 2-2 against everyone and then swap the fewest possible games to either get everyone to 19-19, or have one one 2 home and one 20 away.
They do try and balance it etween seasons - so for example if you only got 1 home game vs a team one season then they will schedule you 2 in the first 33 games the next - but even this doesn`t always work out.
and ye, the 7th and even 8th placed teams almost always have nothing to play for. The only reason it works, is cause it`s close enough to the end of the season - and the games vs 10th,11th,12th at least offer some interest due to those teams being in a relegation fight.
but ye, 14 teams would be even more awkward. 3x13=39 (an odd number of games) and a split there would either have to be 2 groups of 7 (odd number of teams in each section) or 8+6 and then not every team plays the same number of games
Thanks!
Given the FAWSL is also a 12-team league, do you think it could work in a similar fashion, or is less more?
0:08 The “ctih rmesi”
sots peirhp
In Denmarks first division they kinda use the same system, still 12 teams, you play every team twice and then the league is spilt up and you play every team in your “group” twice making it 32 games a season
Northern Ireland uses the same system but added a 4 team playoff for 5th-7th in the league to give the bottom spilt teams something to play for.
At 2:59 you say adding more teams would dilute the league but most people in Scotland that support teams that aren't the old firm would be happier if it was a 22 and 20 team set of leagues rather than the 4 small leagues. Yes, it would lower the broadcast value by having only 2 old firm games a year but it would allow a stronger league in football terms as more teams would benefit from playing the better sides in the league and thus the league in the long term would be stronger.
Just follow the Swiss league format. 12 teams, each teams play each other twice, then split. And top 6 and bottom 6 play each other twice. 32 games played all together. Fair and square.
that's... literally what it already is... because that's where they got the idea
@@EMETRL but they played 3 times before split. Bit unfair
@@EMETRL No, it's not. They play 3 times before the split and only once against each opponent in their respective group afterwards.
The Swiss have 10 teams that play each other 4 times. 36 games.
They used to have 12 teams, about 20years ago. 12 teams played each other twice, then the top 8 teams played each other twice again (after dividing the points by 2). The button 4 were then competing against the top 4 from the 2nd league, starting with 0 points.
wow, it's rare that I watch tifo videos right after it's uploaded. I guess I accomplish something new
♻️Achievement unlocked♻️
Same bro
Love Tifo's stuff but had my head in my hands at the spelling of Livingston with there being an e at the end in the video.
Talk about south america
Some have playoff system like north america, some are divided into 2 tournaments every season and others have special relegation systems
This is similar to the 2021 Chinese Super League Season. This is not a regular format, and the league is expected to return to the regular format after COVID restrictions end. The regular format is just a 30-game season.
So basically, the 16 teams are split to two groups based on the result of the 2020 season. And after half a season, the top 4 of each group goes into the "championship group", and fight for the championship; while the bottom 4 of each for goes into the "relegation group", and fight for their survival. It is rather refreshing but I miss the regular format.
I have always wondered how they do a 38 game league with 12 teams but have never been bothered to look up why it works the way it does
One down, thank you. That was very helpful. Now help me understand Belgium's league structure, please.
If im not wrong after 30 games the top 6 play a mini-league of 10 games to define the Champion.
I think you can finish second bottom and still qualify for Europe or something.
Aw c'mon, its not that complicated and plenty leagues do a split, although after an odd number of games is weird.
OK sure, its lumpy and uneven and I'd MUCH rather we just had a 16/18 team top league playing each other twice.
Of course more games agajnst/between the old firm seems to be the only metric that matters and that makes me feel a bit sick.
Literally! It's not complicated! I follow the Danish league and we have had waaay more complicated formats than this, it's pretty bloody simple here.
Please do an analysis on Barcelona best manager prospects to give a turn to our bad spell
What if, instead 3 games in the regular then 1 after the split, it was 2 in both? That would be 32 games overall while still being competitive.
This needed to be a jj bull video 😤.
So why some teams play 3 aways and one home and others play 3 homes and one away ir may be 2 aways and 2 homes what's the standard here can someone explain to me 🤔
Can you read my mind, Tifo? Because I wanted to know this for so long!
What if each team played one another twice (home and away), then the league splits after 22 matches allowing the top and bottom teams to play an additional 10 (home and away) matches? While this would only be 32 matches, you wouldn’t have a lopsided fixture list.
South Korean League has the same format as well!
I’m wondering what about a 14 team 39 games season? Every team plays each other 3 times … once at home once away and once on a neutral ground! With 50/50 fan split! Written into the rules for said neutral league games? Rangers vs Celtic would be at Hamden park hibs vs hearts at murryfield Scotland rugby ground? All other “neutral “games ( Dundee derby etc) could be alternated between both teams home grounds ( with coin toss for 1st neutral host?) but with more tickets for away fans for 50/50 splits then the other “normal “home vs away games then switch venue the next neutral game between both teams the next neutral meeting/season and when you have 3 “neutral” games on the same weekend between only the mid size and smaller teams you just combine them into a rugby league style super weekend at a single venue for all 2/3 games probably either at Hamden park / Newcastle st James park/ some where else? Yes it’s a bit gimmicky but could be the lift the Scottish club game needs and most teams are very close geographically so neutral concept could work…… also you could all but guarantee 4th old firm game by introducing a Scottish community/super cup as season opening game between reigning league champions and cup winners … ok ibrox and Celtic park lose a game each to Hamden but it’s still In Glasgow and it’s still virtually 4 plus big games every season still with cup draws between both big 2 likely still too.
In fact looking at a map a Dundee derby neutral league match could even by a half in each stadium! As both grounds so close to each other! And Grounds north2 south and east2west headings are only slightly off from each other … so conditions should be fairly equal other both half’s to both teams… maybe for safety reasons fans could only buy a ticket for only a half/1 stadium each and playing staff off both teams and referees might need a temporary Portacabin placed somewhere in between for fairness/ safety changing stadiums at halftime! But as a concept it’s up there with major leagues baseball Field of dreams game!?😎
Why don’t they just have a finals series. E.g. a 6 team final series like the Australian A-League system or an 8 team finals series for bigger leagues in the same format as the Australian NRL. Yes I am Aussie however, finals matches are just unparalleled. You could even do what is done here with the minor premiership to the ladder leaders at the end of the season and then the championship trophy for the finals winner.
>Be Scottish league
>have 12 teams
>make em play 38 matches
>more matches
>more fun
>more drinking
>simple as
0:07 the ctih rmesi
The danish league works this way too. We just split after 22 games
The scottish league is actually incredibly fun to watch regardless of quality
Really fun that 2 sides have won the league since 1985
@@nathanmerchant7696 And? Its the games that are fun, literally nobody would go to games if they didn’t enjoy football, regardless of who wins at the end of the season
@@nathanmerchant7696 plus you can blame ferguson for leaving aberdeen for nobody else winning
Not borrowed from the Swiss league : pitches on the side of huge mountains.
It's not an outlier in European football, there are many many leagues across UEFA that use a split system.
So it's a rainy Liga MX
Are all the teams in the SPL fully professional, or do they still allow pub teams who play on plastic pitches.
I really like the split, by the end of last season there wasn't a club in Scotland (except Celtic) who weren't fighting for something, Rangers we're aiming for invincibility; Aberdeen, Hibs, and St Johnstone going for Europe; Livingston, St Mirren, Motherwell, and Dundee United going for top 6; Ross County, Hamilton, and Kilmarnock in the relegation battle. Kept the season exciting for everyone when in the Prem you've got 10 teams between Europe and relegation scrapping for mediocrity.
What a load of ballacks!😂
The split has always been rather controversial in Scottish football, yet it's been omnipresent for 20 years now. Fans have been screaming out for change for years, but nothing comes of it. Northern Ireland and Wales also have 12-team leagues and use the 6/6 split, but they do so after 2 rounds of matches, followed by another 2 rounds of matches in your group, culminating in a 32 game season. Much fairer, but, this would mean 6 games less for our league and the sponsorship and TV deals are so bad up here that there's just not enough money to take that hit.
So the teams plays each other 3 times upto game 33. But who gets the extra home game?? How they decide that??
I've never even noticed this
If they did expand to 18 sides or even 20 sides then play each other twice.
Indian I league also uses the similar format
I mean when you said 12 doesn’t divide 38 at 0:18, that doesn’t really matter, in the premier league, 20 also doesn’t do into 38. But 19 does, since a team doesn’t play against itself. Then again, 11 also doesn’t divide 38, so I know what you were getting at.
Didn't Hearts get relegated in 2019-20? A bit of strange mistake to make since it was quite a big deal ending up in court and all that
They should change to the same format they use in Wales - 22 games then a split to play a further 10 games against each club in their half then half European play-offs involving the teams down to 7th to give 7th place something to play for. Otherwise if that's too short a season have a 14 team league and split into a top 7 and bottom 7 keeping it at 38 games whilst changing the SPFL into 3 leagues of 14 and copy the format to all 3 leagues, there's no easy solution other than going back to the 12-12-18 format that was thrown out.
Livingstone is actually spelt "Livingston"