Pro tips for table tops, counters and panel glueups
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- This video is LOADED with tips to help you get a perfect panel glue-up!
When you use this link to visit our sponsor, you support us►
Dura Grit Carbide Sanding Products: (Use Coupon Code: STUMPYNUBS): duragrit.com/home.php
Subscribe (free) to Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal e-Magazine► www.stumpynubs.com/
Follow us on social media►
Instagram: / stumpynubs
Twitter: / stumpynubs
Facebook: / stumpy-nubs-woodworkin... - Jak na to + styl
When you use this link to visit our sponsor, you support us►
Dura Grit Carbide Sanding Products: (Use Coupon Code: STUMPYNUBS): duragrit.com/home.php
Subscribe (free) to Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal e-Magazine► www.stumpynubs.com/
glad you said not to clamp the living hell out of the glue up. i have only ever put about 10 pounds worth and never had a problem. i think the idea of gluing both surfaces was from the glue manufacturers. hey if they use twice as much glue our sales will sky rocket!
You just got to love a video that contains the phrase ‘a good squeeze out management’.
Thank you so much! Great tips as always.
I think this is the best woodworking channel on the internet. Thank you!
A great set of videos to help with old table restore- no more mysteries! Thank you!
I'm just starting my journey in woodworking. I am finding your videos extremely helpful!
Thank you for sharing your extensive knowledge with this newbie.
Thanks! I’ve been wood working about six months and just did my first router bit biscuit alignment glue up. So much flatter!!!
The way how you are explaining mate makes so much sense for me ,thank you very much for your advice and tips 😀 it helps me a lot because I am new in to woodworking!!
Thanks. These pro tips will help, as I’ve never done this before. I’m in the process of gluing up and refinishing a Hawaiian Koa wood end table, probably built in the 40s or 50s. The large second “top” of the two layered table is about 3’ X 1’ and is made up of 4 individual pieces, all solid koa. The seams separated and I managed to get them 100% apart with no damage. They seem to sit pretty flat and the gaps are good, just have to get them together flat and even on the ends.
Great video as usual. As a retired electrician I am now doing woodworking to keep me from going buggy. :)
If you go buggy it might be carpenter ants. Get it?
Good stuff James! Never thought of match planing on my jointer Thanks !
Same Daniel, I believe that this was the very first time I saw or heard of it. Good tip!
That’s process I’ve been using for a number of years. Saves s lot of grief at glue up time.
Thank you for the tips and camera work. Always learn something here.
Good tip about the shrinking biscuits; I didn't know about that.
I keep hand planes around almost exclusively for jointing & find that they do a far better job far more consistently than any machine can. They're also quick, quiet, compact, & create virtually no mess. I am going to have to get a thicknesser though; planing faces by hand is not kind on the arms.
Edit: Just remembered another tip. For smaller panels, you can get flat & smooth granite "worktop savers" for kitchens & sticking one of them, inverted, on top of the panel does an excellent job of applying just enough weight to prevent cupping. I like to put plastic wrap around mine in case I forget to remove it before the glue dries too much, but then it's just a quick bit of scraping to clear up any squeeze-out.
Great job James, always appreciate your excellent advice. 🙏🏻🙏🏻👍👍👏🏻👏🏻👋👋
Really useful and actionable, thanks James
I purchased a PLANO glue press for large glue ups-works great!
Lots of useful take-home tips here. Thanks!
As always, very educational as well as entertaining video. Thank you much for the amount of detail you put into your videos. Take care and have a good one :D
Great video with a lot of helpful tips. Thanks Stumpy.
Love your videos, they are great while I venture into the niche of woodworking, You have a great talent for describing everything, I never get confused while watching your videos. About to glue up a large maple butcher block :)
Great tips. I think the panel cupping also depends on the wood. I am making one out of pine and each board is on 3" wide but the panel still ended up looking like the side of a barrel because I didn't make sure to alternate the boards.
Great tips. Thank you very much for sharing.
Thanks James... Always a pleasure as I most always I get a little something out of your presentations. You have reminded me I need a set of those clamps for my upcoming 37 X 21 flag build!
I'm currently setting up my new Wahuda 10" benchtop jointer. I'm close to coplane, not quite there just yet & I suspect I'll be setting the cutters to the tables parallel again, it is a game of give & take that requires patience...
Thanks again James,
Bill on the Hill... :~)
Fantastic tips, dude! Thanks a lot! 😃
I'm definitely going to use them!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
A handful of sawdust will take a lot of squeeze out up quickly and easily. Sprinkle in on wet glue and let the sawdust mix with the glue and rub it right off.. Works wonders..almost like scouring powder. I always keep a can of sawdust handy for glueups..
Yup @ martino, you are correct. I have seen the sawdust tip many times as well. Thanks for reminding. Have a good one :D
Great info. Thank you!
Great info for glue ups. Thanks!
I pickup pallets on the curb and make furniture from them. Your videos are great, never hurts to pick up new ideas.
Liam:
Yeah. My Grandfather thought some Woodwork was a perfect way to spend a weekend visit at Gram and Gramps.
Softwood furniture... Great
Really appreciate your videos
Great set of tips.
thanks for sharing those tips, and the make!
Thanks James!
Thank you, Great Vid!
I've had some success with dowels as blind tenons - to ensure board alignment when gluing. It seems to take care of a need for cawls.
Perfeito ! 👏👏👏👏
Excelente explicação !
Love this content keep it up
Good tips, thanks!
Great video, thanks a lot!
thank you for the tips!!
Excellent, comprehensive tutorial. Unfortunately, no magic. Just careful, methodical work. Thanks for the video!
As always, useful tips presented clearly. Thanks much and thumbs up to crush a troll.
Great video!
Talking about grain direction...haven't been Woodworking long but finally...just recently I made some tissue box covers and my wood grain pattern goes all the way around it what looks like a seamless board. Just a little added step that gives a much more professional result.
That is awesome!
@@woodworksbygrampies1284 Thanks...I was happy with it...finally upping my game
@@j316finewoodworking6 That's the name of the game right. Improve from project to project. Have a GREAT weekend.
@@woodworksbygrampies1284 You're absolutely right...be safe and enjoy sir.
Thanks Stumpy
Great Video!
great tips
Twenty years ago Norm was adamant that the growth rings should be alternated. I like your conclusions. I wish we could revisit those furniture projects to see if the growth rings made any difference.
10 years ago I made two tables that were 6'x3', both out of the same boards from the same tree. One of them I alternated the boards on, the other I did not. They have been in my temperature controlled house the past decade and are both still dead flat. Maybe I'll check them again in another 10 years.
20 years ago fewer people had air conditioning in their homes.
thanks
Thanks!
When I glue up a panel I keep one face in contact with the clamp bar. That gives me flat panels. But even a little ‘squeeze-out” will cause a steel bar to stain the wood. What’s more, that glue sets up in a bar’s fine notches, making it harder to slide the adjustable part.
My solution is a small piece of waxed paper wrapped around the bar, and secured with a button magnet. The paper doesn’t fall out, and panels come out dead flat with no iron stains. You don’t need to wrap the whole bar, just a couple inches where the joint will be.
Keep it simple and take the time to do each step correctly using the right tools and everything will be just fine.😊
Been gluing boards for years and always worried about the end cup and
ending with good cup rotation and not a great face look.
Thanks for the type.
Julien Lamarche
I’m gluing up a 12’x17” countertop for custom cabinets I built. I had to work the walnut up into 2” strips. I’m a little nervous, but I intend to work up 2 strips at a time until I get one section 8” wide. The second section will be 10” this will allow me to be able to run the piece through the surface planer as an option if there’s an issue. Hopefully sanding will suffice. Both pieces will be glued together and I may use biscuits to assemble the two halves. I’m more nervous about attaching it to my cabinets than anything else. Needs to move but not too much. Of course it will have a face etc., but I’ve made mistakes of not allowing for expansion and contraction, so it’s priority high this time.
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
For in the field of a glue-up panels I keep a bunch of matched wedges handy. I put them under the clamp bar and press the boards into alignment, doesn't take much pressure don't over do it, obviously don't tighten wedges over a glue line. Rockwell makes a clamp thing to do the same.
I've just made some 4 way panel clamps but I have only used them once so far with good success, auto flattening, no cawls. What are your thoughts on that type of clamp?
Great ingo.
One thing, you may need to worry more about panel cupping depending on where you live. Here in Wisconsin we have very humid summers and very dry winters. It's a bad combination that can cause wood to move a lot more.
Great
Have you ever tried to dowel/glue together boards similar to this with these clamps before the glue drys? Try it.
Norm Abram did in one of the latter episodes of The New Yankee Workshop did confess that he had found that some of his older pieces that were joined with biscuits did show slight indentations at the biscuit locations.
Love your videos ! I have had a few tables that were great glue ups (8/4 maple, red oak and some 6/4 walnut tops) following most of the methods in this video but 3-6 months later I can feel the joint seam with my fingernail (still flat top but the glue seemed to raise even though it was smooth when I finished the top) . I’ve been doing some research and I’ve been learning that it’s called glue creep? Seems hit or miss when it happens, I can’t figure it out and it keeps me from wanting to sell any pieces thinking piece isn’t high enough quality to sell. Idk what to do about it. Help !! Thanks again sir, huge fan.
4:45 was so satisfying lol. great video!
Just bought my first jointer. How timely :)
Well, it looks like I did it wrong. Used a jointer and biscuits. Glued both sides of the slabs and where the biscuits go into the slots. Then, clamped it and wiped all the extra glue with a damp rag. That was 4 days ago, and it's still clamped up. The countertop is a black walnut almost 2" thick and over 6' long so I thought more glue was better then not enough.
Enjoy your videos, thanks for all of the tips and tricks
Quick question you mentioned glue only on one surface yet I have seen furniture repair/restoration videos that say the main reason for joint failure is just that, glue on one surface only ?
Confused 🤔
I can't speak to a video I haven't seen, but I don't know how they could make such a blanket statement like that. In my experience, if you put the right amount of glue on one surface, and those two surfaces meet properly, they will bond just fine. If you do not put enough glue on the single surface, or the two are not sufficiently pressed together to spread the glue, the joint could fail.
Great info, what do you think of the four sided clamps, like those sold by wood craft?
Thank you for the video. A little worried about this huge glue up for this dining table I am getting ready to build. To keep the weight down on this red oak dining table, I am using 4/4 material for the top and the side skirts. Didn't want to have to buy 5/4 or 6/4 rough and have to joint and plain the boards down to the final thickness. So I ordered the 4/4 dressed. The boards are 12" wide so should I use dominos for boards this thick since I will only have three glue lines?
For big panel projects I manage to save a lot of headache by using factory laminated plywood instead.
Great video. What do you suggest if I didn’t take the glue off right away? And now it’s hard and dry. Please help! 🙈
Hey Stumpy great videos. Had an idea for a cool video. Probably best for the vlogs. But could you shed some light on styles of woodwork.. such has what handcrafted really means versus the powertool guys or hybrid woodworker. As example i see a lot of items being sold as handcraftes even though im certain powertools were used.
..and if you wait until after the glue dries and plane it, you can easily nick the knife edges. That's a preventable pain. Nice vid once again.
Yes. Glue is abrasive. If one runs a lot of glued up boards with the glue line always at the same position in the planer nicks will be cut into the knives at those areas. That is with high speed steel knives. Not so much a problem with carbide cutters.
@@Sillyturner in my experience it's not abrasive, it's brittle and hard and can chip teeth. It's worse if you have straight blades as opposed to helical ones but it's still a pain in the butt to have to resharpen your blades
Thanks, your video was very helpful, I appreciate it.
You didn't talk about the width of the boards, for gluing panels... In woodworking school I've been taught that ripping board to 44mm strips, alternating the direction of the rings, is a good way of preventing cupping, etc.
Does this matter? Often a lot of 44mm strips are required, to make a large enough panel, so it would certainly be a lot easier to use wider boards, like 70-100mm.
This is also what I see a lot of other woodworkers do, on Facebook, CZcams, etc....
I hope you can help me out here.
Best regards.
I just use the widths I have. Looks more natural.
@@StumpyNubs - Thanks for the quick reply, I appreciate that.
I see, thank you.
Would there be any benefit to using the narrower strips, like I'm taught?
Surely it would be less expensive buying materials, if I can use wider pieces.
Thanks again.
You my boy blue
All we are is dust in the wind James! haha :) :) Have a good one :D
Thanks for the great explanation, James! Quick question:. I've seen some people use splines with glue to create panels and table tops. Does the spline add any strength or is it similar to the use of biscuits? Thanks again!
It does the same thing biscuits do.
Pocket hole screws to the rescue!! 🎉
Panels have always been my downfall and I still try and steer clear of them, being a weekend hobbyist and beginner. This video has been very helpful and informative, and I'd like to try making one again. But can I ask a question? After an hour, you scrap the squeeze out, but when is the glue strong enough to be able to remove the clamps? I'm usually stuck with glue squeeze out under my clamps that I just can't get to and as you mentioned, once hardened, very difficult to sand. Could you go further into the gluing portion, removal and sanding the panel in a future video by chance? Or any advice you could offer me?
An hour is just a generalization. Just scrape the glue off when it gets lumpy. By that time you can gently move the clamps to get under them. I usually let my panels sit overnight, but a couple hours should be enough time to remove the clamps unless it is very humid in your shop.
Do you have an opinion on dominoes vs. biscuit for table top glue ups?
had a similar issue with floating shelves.....the 'invisible' seam was not invisible as the table saw left a few irregular lines that we can see if you look close
retired furniture maker here. a saw blade no matter how good will never give you a finish edge. it will always need planing, either on the jointer or by hand. when i dress timber in the thicknesser i always dress the sawn edge down to final size on it as well.
When I had an old contractor saw with a crummy fence I couldn't get a seamless panel for anything. After buying a new cabinet saw, calibrating it, and using a sharp glue line rip blade, there really is no visible seam at all. It was very satisfying to put those boards together the first time.
Good vid, thanks again!
Nice pencil at 2:52 or so. Koh-i-noor?
amzn.to/3cSLaYp
@@StumpyNubs Thank you for letting me know!
Hope you and yours are well in these odd times. I really do appreciate the videos and what you're sharing with us.
Do you have a series/video on how to attach table tops? Coffee table tops also. Thanks
czcams.com/video/_YMG2R2KsBY/video.html
@@StumpyNubs thank you. Really appreciate it.
1:13 why I thought I was the only one who did that ? 🤣
so, when you force the boards into alignment with cauls: what happens to the tension you've added over time?
Nothing, because each strip in the panel would have it's own tension, independent of those beside it. For a panel to warp, the tension of all the strips must be similar so they can warp together. Otherwise, they cancel each other out.
How long do you leave panels in clamps? I use Titebond ii most of the time.
I usually leave it as long as I can. But I think you could remove the clamps after a couple hours.
I never just use glue, although it is stronger than the wood. Whatever happened to using dowels? Am I doing something wrong. Wood shop 1972, high school is where I learned to use dowels to keep things lined up. Is there something wrong with using dowels, which seem to help prevent cupping. I just retired, and getting back into wood working. Whats changed?
I don't think anything changed except marketing budget for power tools like biscuit cutters and domino is much larger than for dowels 😀. I use dowels and never had issue.
What about squeeze out near the clamps, isn’t an hour too soon to remove them?
I've signed up for your magazine but have never recieved it, is that because I'm a Canuck fan?😁
Yes. I am still angry about the first two games of the 2002 playoffs.
What are some good skill building projects?
Boxes
I second what Craig said. Boxes are relatively inexpensive to make, but can be as complex as you like. Pretty much any woodworking skill can be honed by making boxes.
Could you please make a vid on table saws with safety features that aren't SawStop? Are there any? I like having fingers but SawStop is expensive and I'd personally be ok with a saw that might leave me with a small cut and not destroy the blade.
From my research, sawstop is the cheapest option of table saws with a safety device other than blade guard or push sticks. There are some fancy euro panel saws that don't kill the blade and can be used again once reset, but they are high end machines.
czcams.com/video/qSbS5zhH7cE/video.html
I always seem to make a mess, or have a bad/uneven joint.
I'm getting better at fixing it, not preventing.🤷
Hi James. If I have a lot of 4 inch x 3/4th inch x 10ft pine lumber and ONLY a handheld circular saw, how can I get straight edges? I’d like to glue these boards together but I don’t have a jointer and using a hand plane over 10ft long edges might not work.
It's tough to joint 10-ft edges without a long bedded jointer. I would tune up the table saw for it's best cut, and just skim the edges. Then use lots of clamps. Pine is soft enough that you can often mush it together enough to close hairline gaps. You may need cauls to keep the panel flat with all that clamping pressure.
@@StumpyNubs thanks James.
I am in a similar situation with six foot boards (walnut). I bought very long level for straight edge (I guess you can use strong long ruler as well), use it to cut with my circular saw (bought nice glue edge blade) and then do final pass with handheld router. I find router leaves better edge. I use Rockler bit so nothing too fancy. I do two passes, first one with one loop of painters tape around router base. I remove tape for final pass. Final glue up looks great. Hope this helps.
I've used biscuits, but if you use them for panels be sure your biscuit placement isn't near a bevel edge! I know that sounds elementary but I've done it and when I cut out a bevel....woops....there's my biscuit again. Stooopid.
I beleive that Steve Ramsey calls that "rustic charm" :) Nice of you to point that out and share that. Have a good one :D
If boards are glued together how do you get wood movement?
They are only glued along the grain. Boards swell/shrink along their width, not their length. When glued edge to edge they can all move together like they are one board.
What is your opinion on using dominos in place of biscuits?
I think they would work in the same way. But I am not sure you need something so robust for most glue-ups. Perhaps for that thick walnut countertop I showed in the video, though the biscuits worked just fine.
I feel like it's been years since I've been told to have a cold one because I've earned it... How many cold ones have I missed out on?? Have I stopped earning them??
I still extend that invitation at the end of the Vlog videos (green thumbnail images) :)
@@StumpyNubs I'll have to catch up on those! I've been at a cold one deficiency!
How do you do such good work when your hands shake like that. I hope it does not get any worse
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
What about if you use hide glue
why?
@@StumpyNubs Easy clean up, if a mistake is made warm water is all you need to disassemble. Plus after many years easy repair. But I still like your path of glue ups
@@ralhmcc47 Hide glue is typically used so joinery may be repaired, particularly on chairs. I can't imagine why you would need to repair a seam in a panel. Perhaps an argument could be made for hide glue in a panel glueup that has many pieces because hide glue has a longer open time. But the panel in this video had a lot of pieces, and Titebond 2 worked quite well.
What about grain direction? Sanding a pannel is no problem but if you intend on plaining the surface later it could be a tear out problem
It shouldn't be a problem for plaining. You just reverse the direction of your passes on portions of the panel that require it.
@@StumpyNubs would it not make more sense to have the grain running in the same direction on all boards then plain all boards in that one direction after glue up?
@@danthechippie4439 Not at all. Grain rarely runs in one direction down the length of a board. You may get the cathedral shapes running the same way (and you should do that for appearances), but the grain may rise toward the surface or fall away from it depending on the side of the board you use. You may try to flip all the boards so the grain all runs downhill, but this sacrifices appearance for a battle that is not always winnable. Grain can fall at the start of the board and then begin to rise again half way down its length.... Also think of the tops on antique furniture where the growth rings were alternated by flipping every other board (something that I think is unnecessary nowadays). That practice meant the grain would rise and fall differently from board to board along the width of the panel. The direction of the plane would have to be reversed from one boar in the panel to the next... My point is you aren't likely to plane a whole, wide glued-up panel in just one direction, anyway. So go with what looks best :)
What Pencil are you using in the video? Min 2:54 into the video?
I saw a video on CZcams about using splines for panel glue up. Dado cut down the center and a spline cut to fit the dados thickness and wide enough to mate with the two boards. I understand the ends may not have a desirable look if they are exposed, but was wondering your thoughts on this
I don't see the point in most cases. You are essentially making a tongue and groove joint. It may help to align the edges, but biscuits are better for that because they do not count on the board being perfectly flat when you cut the groove. And a biscuit joiner is faster. Even so, you don't need anything to strengthen a long-grain edge joint. However, an end grain joint, such as a miter, will definitely benefit from a spline.
Can you turn on captions..i am severely deaf