Ukraine had such good potential in 1991 with huge, educated population, strong agriculture, heavy industry AND great sea access... Could've been another Poland or Russia in terms of economy. But they did absolutely fuck all in the past 3 decades. Awful elites, corrupt, arrogant, suicidal. It's the biggest European tragedy post-cold war.
Elites were set by the west. When they lost elections, propaganda just refused to accept it. Ukrainian citizens were denied in democratic rights by NATO colonial management. And these managers have no reason to develop, just to exploit and run away.
I don't know from which country you are, But imagine if your country is in between of two mega powers, one don't want to accept you and others want to occupy you again, you don't have access to any of their markets, and is a part of political and military play between west and east, both are not interested in your success and considering you more like buffer zone for future wars, do you think it is even possible to build a good state in these conditions?
I am 17yo refugee from Ukraine. I escaped Ukrane in 2022 and now I am about to finish secondary education in Poland. I would say that the majority of people of my age are not going to return to Ukraine by any means neither want I.
@@alexbayer2365 Yeah, yeah put the blame on globalists and not on your own govt. America may have used Ukraine but don't forget who launched the invasion and obliterrated these cities.
@@MyPrideFlag I said about my government. Probably translate mistake. I mean putins band (oligarchs) and Putin himself, because oligarchs is his creature.
I am in Ukraine and can add one more point I am observing here: Everyone I know, who has 16-17 yo son(s), is taking them out of the country behore they turn 18. Hope I shouldn't explain why. Don't see how this process can be stopped
@@baha3alshamari152 yes, after 18yo. One more time. If your 18th b-day is tomorrow - you can leave. If today -sorry...Now you have to wait untill you turn 60y.o. And then you can leave)
This is not a problem for Ukraine. It is difficult for a person in the 21st century to ask to fight and die. I assure you, this has befallen the entire Western world. And this is kind of good, but how to resist the hordes from the east-I do not know, to be honest
The German birthrate was 5-6 before ww1. The French and the English worried about a future of hundreds of millions of Germans. I wonder how birthrates could be raised for Europeans again.
And the average European before WW1 was 5x poorer compared to the present. Large families economically made sense in the pre-hydrocarbon era when the muscle energy predominantly "propelled" the civilization forward. Once the coal, oil & gas energy became the dominating source of energy, having many children became economically unviable.
As if all this wasn't bad enough, the average 25 year old Ukrainian woman has had something like 2 or 3 abortions compared to only ~0.5 in the west, which has a further negative impact on fertillity especially considering the lesser medical standards there.
Number of abortions was exorbitant in Soviet times, now with better access to contraception it is much lower. Could be still higher than in EU, though.
Okay, but I disagree with you on the "justified part" for men being forbidden to leave the country. What kinda law is that? I am Ukrainian, and to see even dogs and cats being let out of the country while men aren't allowed is atrocious, a man's life is worth less than a dog's in Ukraine.
Males are always expandable Men can't get pregnant unlike women 1 man can impregnate hundreds of women in a year A woman can get pregnant only once a year even if she slept with hundreds of men so the value of men is always low
Where are the feminists of Ukraine now? If they won't shoulder the responsibility why should women have full rights and be allowed to vote while men die for their decisions?
@@vladsome6026 Either let everyone leave or don't let anyone leave, what kind of selective system is this? I hope more men wake up and stand against being pushed around as cannon fodder. And I mean this for all, not only Ukrainians. I was born in Serbia, never visited Ukraine. And here we have hundreds of thousands of Russians who left after the 2022 invasion, many of them draft dodgers, and they're all equally my free brothers. This outdated system is rotten, changes are needed, a whole system change.
Short answer: No Ukraine was already one of the worst economies and demographics in Europe before the war. Very few Ukrainians would choose to return if they have the choice to stay in a stable, wealthy country instead. These are just the facts.
And one more thing: The sheer corruption in Ukraine, which probably doesn't decrease during wartime, will be a great detriment to any aid for rebuilding the country. As I said: No.
The current demographic decline in Ukraine is unique because it combines all the features that contribute to demographic decline, such as war, a difficult economic situation, mass emigration, absent of cultural traditionalism, absent of even ability to push state-sanctioned pro-natalist politics. It's truly horrific.
Not wuite but almost. Here in Switzerland where I live it used to be (1948) 7:1, and by the year 2100 it should be 2:1. Absolutely impossible. Doing it via productivity increases is likely a pipe dream.
Yeah, but why? I know in Canada, it's public pension schemes is moving on to the point where the cash to pay pensions to retirees came from the retirees themselves, instead of burdening the current generation of workers. It is better system in that it solves the problem of demographic bulges. The unavoidable problem though is how to fund the pensions of future retirees who are unable to work currently.
An interesting lense to look at the Syrian war would be that of demographic shift, not in the sense of population decline, but rather in the sense of ethnic shift. Syrian refugees are much more likely to be sunni muslims than minority groups in comparison to their share of the Syrian population, and this has led to the share of people belonging to groups such as the alawites of Bashar al Asad growing.
Not too that extent. Syrians had many children and the Sunni lower classes especially. The escape of anti Assad refugees means only the status quo being preserved in the Syria. There will never be a significant shia or alawite percentage in Syria, however had the war no happened they would have been a really small minority and the future of their rule would have been in danger. In many ways the war cemented Assads and his cronies rule by causing the status quo to be protected.
@@muratbayraktar5035I agree with your point. I didn't mean to say the population shifted in a massive degree, but it did prevent the completion of the "natural" trend where sunnies become the overwhelming majority, and now they are probably closer to half of the population with alawites going from 1/10 to 1/6
@@muratbayraktar5035 This is actually not true, most of the Syrian govt fighters were sunni, the sunni opposition was filled with fighters from everywhere but Syria. Some estimate put the foreign fighter percentage at 45%. The fight was CIA inspired, there was never a sunni vs shia clash in Syria. If you dont know, Assad's wife is sunni and most of his cabinet is sunni also.
@@uche007us they are mostly sunni because there is also secular sunnis in Syria who Assad allied with. There arent any shias or christians with the protestors, they are all Sunni Jihadists.
@@steveagola9317 it's a fact that even the government of Ukraine is struggling to know exactly where how much people, adresses and other stuff but someone in some western country far from Ukraine is analyzing some data from internet.
The fact that they couldnt conduct a count in 21 years says a lot about how functioning the state is. Btw, very accurate predictions can be made from the number of working people (obviously not during a war). The state must know how many people pay taxes, and can have very concrete numbers about people working in the black economy too.
У нас в Украине правительство проводит суицидальную политику. 1) Закрытые границы для мужчин. Люди чувствуют себя рабами психически страдая от невозможности самостоятельно распоряжаться своей жизнью. 2) Насильственная мобилизация гражданских, что вынуждает людей скрываться, работать неофициально выпадая из экономики вместо того, что бы приносить пользу государству на месте. 3) Отсутствие ротации для военных которые вынуждены годами находится в зоне боевых действий, что явно сказывается на рассудке людей и возможности их интеграции в гражданскую жизнь в дальнейшем. В итоге правительство генерирует коллапс демографии, экономики. Я не вижу светлого будущего для страны при таких условиях.
И все равно 80% говорит, что хочет воевать до территорий 91 года. Тебя с говном смешают в укр чатах, если только заикнуться про передачу крыма. Но воевать при этом никто не хочет. Я вообще не понимаю украину.
Ukraine has been going through a demographic hit for some time befoere the war The EU commission president talks a good game thsr Ukraine belongs in Europe But once they do become a EU wirh freedom of movement, you dont need ro look further than Bulgaria to see their future
@@baha3alshamari152Except Ukraine had lost the population pré war without being inside Schengen yet. Ukraine was already one of the poorest parts of Europe on par with Bosnia, Moldova and Albania. It could easily have lost another 20% hit to their population after integration.
Вы понимаете что будет когда Украина присоединится и Украине дадут права наравне со всеми европейцами? Как вы думаете почему Турция несколько десятков лет так и не стала ещё членом ЕС ?
I think that both sides is aware that Ukraine needs a lot of time to recuperate before joining the union, they just demonstrate that both sides are interested for this to happen at some point.
Men have no choice, they are locked up in the country and they are forbidden to leave, so Zelensky and the United States decided. Ukrainian men turned into slaves
You missed one key point in any future Ukraine has - sovereign debt. Quite a sizable amount of western military help is provided as loans. So, whatever population is left in Ukraine after the dust settles, it will be absolutely crushed economically by overwhelming sovereign debt. On top of having half a population on all kinds of social support.
@@comelfon беги, пока не поздно! мой товарищ успел перейти через румынскую границу ещё осенью, 6 дней по горам. сейчас такое уже вряд ли получится, погранцы лютуют - тепловизоры, дроны, нагнали вояк на отлов мяса (((
As someone who had studied this exact topic for at least 10 years. I can tell you that the official demographics are not always right. To my understanding it went something like this: 1993 ~ 52 mil. 2003 ~ 48 mil. 2013 ~ 42 mil. 2021 ~ 37 mil. 2023 ~ 22 mil. Which is an absolutely staggering number. At around 30 mil. people population decline in 30 years.
Wrong stats. 2021 37 million because part of territory occupied by Russia, but population still stayed there. So with international borders in 2021 were ~ 40 millions. Now its ~32 millions without refugees. 22 mln is 100% bullshit. 30+ mln anyway.
@@siloton my sources are my own research, you take the official statistic from various official ( i. e. ukrstat) and semi official sources (mostly in Russian and ukr.) and extrapolate the results. Things like electricity generation, food , gasoline consumption, transport etc etc, as well as the official numbers of people who left for Russia and Europe+ . I can also let you in on a little secret, as there were the "official numbers" and also "inside numbers" used to calculate different gov. per capita parameters. And the official the official number was 42 million, but their internal number was 37 million... But in reality it was closer to 32 mil. according to my calculations... Yes, the number jumps all over the place, but ukr. statistics is extremely complicated. As I believe they had counted people from Crimea and Donbass ,as well as a couple of million people who were permanently staying and working in Europe, they counted them as part of the population, hence why that much discrepancy. But I've given the official internal number anyway for 2021 because it's easier that way. Though right now I don't know which internal number they are using now, but you have your official statistics people who had left for Russia and Europe, you subtract it from the official number before the conflict ( + losses), and you will arrive at the number I've provided, at around 22 mil. (give or take a few mil), half of which are kids and elderly.
Ukraine has mobilized more men then any country in NATO except the US, but lacks the industrial base to supply an army of that size. And Russia has already proven that it s MIC an easily outproduce that of the US and EU combined.
I don't believe the government in Kyiv is able to provide for all those people. Retirees, veterans, and so on. They will be left to fend for themselves. Nothing new to be honest. But in most countries, there is a set of population that could repopulate the country even if the population and state would collapse, but I don't see that anywhere in Ukraine.
@@love__and__hope__ They won't. In fact, something tells me the same men who got injured fighting Russia, will end up relying on Russia to care for them when all is said and done.
Kiev? It can't. It already functions on the money given to them by EU / US, the % of foreign funds in state's budget is about 50-60% (they've released an official paper somewhere). The question is if someone else would be willing to pay for it or if Russia would be willing to pay for the damages (or if Russia would put a debt on Kiev for damaging "new" territories, should things turn into Ukrainian defeat). Turning back to communism might unironically be an answer, but that would also be a massive face slap for Ukrainian allies.
@@love__and__hope__ They won't be able. Historically, such people were left to die in poverty in most of the ex-soviet states. If you need some examples, check what was a compensation for Chernobyl Cleanup Operation. A lot of these people either got nothing or close to nothing. That's the prime difference between the "western" Warsaw Pact members like Poland and Czechia (where communism was rather mild and reforms went well in the 90s) and those that had hardcore version of it (like Ukraine and other integrated soviet republics, which transformed into oligarchies). Not only that, it is also a matter of culture. Ukraine and Russia never really cared for its people. They were merely peasants or resources to utilize. Reasons for that are plenty but it all kinda started when eastern europe was "spared" from the Black Death, which was a start of social reforms in the west (less people meant they needed to be treated better). Eastern Europe never had a reason for reforms, so it got entrenched in feudal relationships and structures. The only "hope" these people have is the agreement Ukraine has with Poland that offers polish wellfare to some people on very attractive terms (like, you need to just work for few weeks to have minimal pension)...which is a potential social issue and might be revoked if polish government sees the sheer scale of people entitled to such benefits.
@@kresbLeadership evacuated the people they cared about before locking the country down for ukranian men. Soon it will be time for diversity and other western values. Problem of too many white people in another country solved.
Thats a tragedy indeed. The officials made a mistake by locking the men in the country and letting 10mln women to leave freely for the EU and North America - Families are broken, decrease of women(cause 2/3 of them will never come back according to demographers), Disappearance of the country..
Another big thing that isn't visible in a lot of the statistics is the fact that a lot of the people that lived in Eastern Ukraine had dual Russian/Ukranian citizenship. This means that a lot of people escaped to Russia from the war with Russian passports and weren't counted as Ukrainians. A number I've seen from both Ukrainian and Russian sources over the last few months, still not fully confirmed though, is that the population of Ukraine could be as low as 19million at this moment
approximately + - minus as I counted, only I counted 21 million people now, but only I counted those Ukrainians who went to Europe. In short, the only way to save Ukraine is a complete transition to an AI economy where AI will work, and the second option is to make clones of people
As someone who lives in central Europe I know at least one guy who has a lot of friends who did exactly like him: bought fake Romanian and Hungarian passports and had free access to work black in EU. They practically speaking live in EU since almost 2 decades, went home only occasionally. So on paper and most certainly in every statistics they appear as they are still a workforce in Ukraine, yet their lives are materialistically completely unbound to it. Without even mentioning that nowadays all of them applied for asylum and found official work. I can even see that in future, once asylum is over, they will not go back for sure. The employers are glad to have them and they get paid well enough. Their homes became just a vacation destination. Nothing more.
@@cccpredarmy oh yeah, there's definitely a lot of cases like that, both with Ukranians that came to Russia and EU, frankly speaking, even after the war is over, chances are Ukraine's population will never recover, or at least not within our lifetimes
@@dixonhill1108Ukraine could simply surrendered ?? So… if some foreign country will brutally attack your country, than it is sure, that your country and of course the peoples of your country want defend themselves against the tyranny and aggression and they want fight for their families, property, rights and freedom. Of course there are some peoples who will want abandon their home, because they are just scared of the war
What is with this childish rhetoric. Russia isn't a person, it's a not free country that can make free decisions. That's the difference between a democracy and autocracy. We can make choices they can't. @@andrewrogers3067
@@andrewrogers3067 If none of this happened after 2014, the country would be a richer version of Belarus since it has a nicer climate, fertile soil and natural resources. But these resources were its downfall. People want them and are ready to start trouble to get them.
Yeah no more nazis and now ucrainian women are sleeping woth nigerian turkish hispanic men so from now on no more blond nazis and more mixed race are being born now 🤣🤣🤣
My friends in Ukraine say the hryvnia is currently propped up by all the aid money. practically everyone there knows that once the war is over, no matter how it ends, that aid money will not be propping up the hryvnia and their money will collapse. I can see that leading to even more emigration. They say, it’s expected that after the war, all those war weapons will just be recycled into criminality and they will experience another 90’s, but maybe worse.
It doesn’t take a genius to understand that the Ukrainian economy is dead. A series of disgustingly weak leaders and an American coup with the help of the Nazis helped this happen. But every Ukrainian now shouts that he is independent. The main thing is not to turn off the American TV and it will get even worse. 🤣
@@SuperDarknessc not even close. No country props up Russia, so the fact economy is not collapsing but actually showing growth is nothing short of amazing.
Despite the news said Ukraine is very resilient behind those facade its bleak. The whole country is literally in the lifeline of financial and military aid. Their whole government is run by money from the EU. They pay for their pension, compensation and services. If the aid are cut off the whole country might collapse almost immediately. The next election of US could now literally dictate the existance of Ukraine.
I usually don’t get moved by things now, but I saw a video of a Ukrainian psychologist who was saying he’s now seeing tons of patients who are men who set their girlfriends/wives and kids up to live in Europe for safety, only to be later told by them they’re now seeing a European boyfriend and not coming back, but they’re unable to do anything because they’re banned from leaving to be drafted. That got to me. Everyone who pushed to end Ukrainian neutrality has a lot of suffering on their hands.
@@baha3alshamari152no that just means that there are millions of angry Ukrainian men ready to commit acts of terror to the cowardly west, who left them with empty promises.
In 1990, Ukraine had more people than Poland and a better developed and more advanced economy than both Poland and Russia thanks to Soviet industries. Now, Poland has 4 times bigger economy and Moscow's city economy alone is twice the size of the whole of Ukraine. How can you even fail that bad? Ruthenians should not have be allowed to govern the whole territory of modern Ukraine in the first place, a massive Soviet mistake. They're simply not capable at this point.
Much of Ukraine's government isn't even Ruthenian. Zelensky is a Jew, as is much of the Ukrainian elite and govt like Ihor Kolomoysky, and they have looted the country. So don't just blame the Ukrainians. Also blame the commies who ruined the country and Russia.
Uhm....maybe because Russia has influenced their politics, put corrupted oligarchs into the Ukrainian govt, and waged two devastating wars against the country for 10 years?
I can't entirely agree with all of your comments, but your overall case is correct. One of the reasons war in the Middle East go on forever is that an Israeli family is about 3 to 4, a Gazan about 4 to 5 whereas a Ukrainian is about 1. It is one thing for a family of 4 to send off one person to war, another for a family of one. Ukraine cannot afford this war.
@@SweBeach2023 you will find gaza is higher then israel
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@@WagesOfDestruction true but the israeli arabs and the arabs in the West Bank have a fertility rate basically the same as the jews. The Gazans have more children because most are poor or just really religious. The fertility rate of orthodox jews is also simular to that of gazans while more secular arabs and jews seem to have simular fertility rates
And would you agree with me that this will affect their society's attitudes to war?
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@@WagesOfDestruction Of course, I´m arab and i agree with you 100%. I also must add that the idea of being a martyr for the "watan"(Fatherland in arabic) is still very popular in not only palestine but in most arab or culturally simular countries like turkey or iran. Arabs are to a certein degree islamist but combine it with ethnic arab nationalism. This is becuase secular arab nationalism to unite all ethnic arabs, not muslims only arabs, was really popular in the arab world up until the 1970s and 1980s where islamist ideoligies started to penetrate arab society. Arab society is extremly distrustful of not only the jews but the west and so having this sort of enemy does also affect people´s willingliness to have the war we have now. This was the case in the 1940s and is still the case now.
@@YaGoodryl He promised weapons if Ukraine decided to resist the Russian army. A good thing at the time, but people who are fatigued by the war are now complaining about it, for various reasons.
@@YaGoodryl they tricked them that they would fully support them if they didnt do what they originally wanted which was the promise of their president in democratic will of the people after which he was elected to reach a settlement but in istanbul brits told them not to ofcourse this is their decision i respect that but it was extremely unfair to fight for your allies but when convenient not fully give them everything they need and at the end say this is a cheap way of fighting so called asiatic (i have no problems with asians)orcs without us europeans fighting them
Boris stymied peace talks and pressed for more carnage and bloodshed, his and NATOs pledges of military support have done naught but slightly prolong the inevitable, at the cost of a ridiculous amount of lives mind you. Zelenskyy the cross dressing comedian is a Manchurian candidate.
@@YaGoodryl The leader of Zelensky's party Arakmiya said that Boris Johnson "sabotaged" The 2022 peace talks by quote on quote "let's just fight them". Ofc he denied it, but NYT recently published the peace agreement proposal, which essentially gave all land back aside from Crimea and the Donbass republics allowed it into the EU and so fourth. Due to that some people are angry because Ukraine was promised constant support, which is falling flat.
You have to be honest: this was long before the war. The population decline in Ukraine began immediately after the collapse of the USSR. An intresting fact: of all the post-Soviet countries, Ukraine is the only one whose GDP has not recovered after the collapse of the Soviet Union. (calculated taking into account inflation)
@@krtst well, it's different. For example my mother was few years back on Ukraine. They payed bribes everywhere. They even payed bribes in public transport instead of buing normal tickets. I heard from a student that on Ukraine, to pass any exam you have to pay to the pocket of professeur. It's different land, ruled by oligarch mafia, where nothing is how it looks.
I think it's pretty obvious Ukraine is in deep trouble when it comes to demographics (52 -> 30 million decline in just 30 years). But what can you do? When its ruling elite does almost nothing to modernize and win, the country is doomed. Ironically, the neighboring Belarus (led by Alexander Lukashenko) is doing much much better (10 -> 9 million decline in 30 years).
@@georgios_5342 War simply accelerated the processes that were already underway. People tend to go/stay where there are jobs, salaries and higher standards of living. Ukraine got deindustrialized in the 90s and could not maintain such a large population anymore. Hence, the decline. Belarus on the contrary kept a relatively large share of its industry inherited from the USSR which effectively made it dependent on the Russia's much larger market. Hence, much smaller outflow of people.
@@georgios_5342 Considering Belarus is a satelite state of Russia and if you check out specifics on demographics one will discover there is much more Russians today than 30 years ago. So basically natives declined and millions flew regime from Russia to Belarus (lower costs, better food and so on)
Meh... This state is doomed. Also, should keep in mind, that if Ukraine will exist in future, then probably it's former allies, that supplied it with weapons and money, will ask Ukraine to pay all the debts and... This will be additional economic disaster for Ukraine. And economic disaster also leads to problems with demography.
Here in Canada, we've had mass immigration and it's been negative. On top of a decrease in social cohesion and an increase in balkanization, our standard of living has also decreased dramatically.
Not sure what Balkanization stands for, but I think we’re all doing rather well in Balkans currently. After visiting France for a 9 day tourist trip in February, I must say - any place in Balkans is better than suburbs of Paris…
Not to mention that the most production, most plants are located in the east of ukraine, Donbas Harkov, Herson regions, and these are most populated regions. West ukraine has nothing essentially.
Lithuania and Latvia also have horrible demographics, and they can no longer use the excuse of 'Soviets' leaving. In fact joining the EU has been hugely problematic, demographics-wise, for many former Soviet block countries.
As ukrainian, recently i read that our govt need more than 1000000 migrants after the war only to sustain economics. You heard that right, not raising salaries to at least 800-1000 eur/month to bring back ukrainians that is already in western europe, and fix ukraine demograpghy, but rather how to keep current rotten, corrupt system afloat. I'm not sure where they plan to find these immigrants, as current average ukrainian salary is about the same with central asian or middle eastern countries.
You can't raise salaries to western European levels without raising productivity to western European levels. Where immigrants would come from? Well, 1 million people isn't that many. You could get 1 million people in the middle east, north africa, Latin America or south asia if you wanted to. A 300-500 usd wage is considered decent in such places.
@@FOLIPE Ukrainian salaries aren't decent in most of those countries Also Ukraine is filled with mines and bombs and would require 700 years in order to ckean them up In most of those countries people don't have to worry about losing a foot because you stepped in the wrong place
@@baha3alshamari152 The east is filled with bombs and what not, but I suppose western ukraine isn't. As for the wages, I am not informed on what is an average wage in Ukraine, but from a quick search online it seems to be in the 400-500 usd range, at which level it should be doable to get workers in the areas I mentioned.
War or no war, this failure of a state was already doomed in 1991. They’ve only had a negative population growth ever since. The population almost halved when they’ve reached the first decade of their "independence". It explains why they’ve had no official census since then. One might wonder how many people were there in 2022, but, using a politically correct wording, it’s extremely unlikely that it was more than they’ve had in 2001.
Demographics in most of Europe are pretty shitty especially in the south. Hell,in Greece people are dying faster than they're being replaced. Same in Italy i think. And it's about to get worse with the financial repercussions from this war. When you got economies like Germany failing you know shit isn't going well. Not a lot of people are gonna want to bring a kid into this mess.
@@iattacku2773 that's a gross overgenerilisation . Population was advancing for decades in ridiculous speeds. Never before there was such a huge population for the planet to feed. There's limited resources this planet has therefore when resources are stretched they're gonna be more expensive and harder to get and people will afford less. Not mention society as whole is radically different from what it was even 50 years ago. You can't compare different eras when different rules apply for each.
@@GothPaoki More to feed but easier than ever to do so. Stop using "overgeneralisation" as an excuse for your poor life choices aka not wanting children.
That's such a rare case to see no-biased analysis. I live in Ukraine and what you say is quite accurate. You missed only 1 thing - many men will leave Ukraine after the war. They want to do it now, but it's too risky.
Even if Ukraine wins, the country's demographics are completely doomed, with extreme difficulty, they may be able to bring back half of the refugees. That's not nearly enough, since the fall of the USSR, Ukraine has lost nearly a third of its pre 1989 population, the nation risks dying
@@user-tq9kj7nd6zso. If someone, somewhere on the street attack you, than you will just stay on the street and letting the aggressor to beat you up ? Interesting 🤔
@@Mar1an163 No one was going to beat them, there were too few Russian troops, it was a police operation to establish peace in Donbas and stop NATO. It was Ukraine that turned this into a full-scale war on the orders of the West.
Most people think that Ukraine's demographic problems are the fault of Russia and the war, but this is not entirely true, it is the result of Ukraine's policies. in 1990, Ukraine's GDP was at the level of France, and 50 million people lived in it, while the lands of Ukraine are among the most fertile in the world. This did not stop them from destroying all economic ties in Russia, plundering the remains of Soviet factories and concentrating money in the hands of a few people in Ukraine (oligarchs). Before 2014, I had friends who worked hard physical labor and earned about $100 a month. At the same time, in Russia I received much more than $1000 a month for simple work. And the Russian economy grew every year by 7-10%. In such conditions, the Ukrainian population began to age, and the young population either left or did not give birth, since they did not have the finances to do so. In 2013, during the anti-constitutional military coup in Ukraine, the Ukrainian authorities set a course for the Ukrainization of the population, while it was necessary to understand that Ukraine is not ethnically monoethnic, there are Russians, Crimean Tatars, Hungarians, Moldovans, even Greeks. That is, all these nations were faced with the fact that they were second-class citizens in Ukraine, which of course led to the fact that they began to leave or fight for their independence from the monoethnic project of Ukraine. At the same time, Ukrainians were those who were not essentially Ukrainians, namely the western regions of Ukraine, which Stalin annexed from Poland, Bulgaria and Hungary. Thanks to such incompetent policies, the population of Ukraine even before 2014 had decreased to less than 35 million people, some left, some died of old age, and some simply did not have children due to the economic situation provoked by the policy of oligarchization of the economy. Then Crimea separated from Ukraine, which has always been mainly a Russian region, with a small layer of Crimean Tatars, who were persecuted in every possible way under Ukraine and were not allowed to live, delaying the resolution of housing issues and the legalization of registration of land plots seized in the 1990s, and also their language was not official, this lasted more than 20 years, and the Tatars were oppressed by the Ukrainians, making it clear that they were not welcome in the Ukrainian Crimea. After the separation of Crimea, Russia first legalized the land plots of the Crimean Tatars, and also made the Crimean Tatar language the official language of the Republic of Crimea. Yes, there were dissatisfied people, but it was among those who did not receive power, they formed the opposition to Russia in Crimea, and then went over to the side of Ukraine, although before that they were quite happy with Russian citizenship and were even deputies in Crimea, but such dissatisfied people are less than 1% . Russia as a project for the Crimean Tatars is more promising, since it is not a mono-ethnic state, including many Muslims among Russians, say Chechens or Tatars, Bashkirs, so Russia built a huge mosque in Crimea. So Ukraine lost more than 2 million people out of 35 million people, then the eastern regions of Ukraine, inhabited by ethnic Russians, who were forced to live in the Ukrainian state, tried to secede, because of this, about 4 million more people separated, who are fundamentally not ready to live with Ukrainians in the same state, so how Ukraine bombed the peaceful cities of Donetsk and Lugansk for 8 years, from 2014-2022. Total 35-6 = 29 million. As a result of the war of 2022, Russia attracted another 1 million Russian population in southern Ukraine to its side. And about 5-6 million more left as refugees in the Russian Federation. Total 29-1-5=23 million. and about 3 million more went to the EU. 23-3 = 20 million. About 1 million more Ukrainians died as a result of the thoughtless policy of the Ukrainian authorities, which plugged holes at the front with meat assaults. That is, there are already about 19 million people in Ukraine. Most of whom are pensioners over 60 years old, or women. In reality, at best, there are about 7 million men left in Ukraine, from infants to very old people, 90% of whom will not be able to fight. At the same time, they are opposed by Russia, which has about 150 million people; more than 20 million people live in the city of Moscow alone. That is, the alignment of this war was clearly losing even before the start of the war; Ukraine had no chance of winning, even if NATO had fought for them. At the same time, the Ukrainian government, realizing its crimes and the inevitability of retribution from the Ukrainian population, cannot stop, and continues to send more and more young people without experience to the front so that people do not rebel and overthrow the government and kill it. Even if 90% of the population returns from the EU, then 2.7 million women and children will not be able to restore the Ukrainian economy even after 30 years. After the war, which will last at least another 1-2 years, there will be about 19-20 million people in Ukraine with refugees returned from the EU, of which only about 1 million will be men of reproductive age. Even if they each have 3 children, that's only 23 million in 10 years. But this is a utopia, there will be no economy in Ukraine after the war, even if 300 billion of the Russian Federation’s money is given to Ukraine, 90% will be stolen as they did in 1991-2013, that is, Ukraine needs trillions of dollars for restoration, and interest-free loans and irrevocable investments
Ukraine wants to recruit 500,000 men to fill the ranks of their army. Reducing the age from 27 to 25 will not solve that unless they can recruit every single man of that age group. To maintain the war they need to dig even deeper but the deeper they dig the worse a hole they end up in. Recognising when you have lost is a virtue.
If you support forced conscription of men to fight in the war, why don’t you support “forced conscription” of women to give birth for the future of the nation? :)
One argument could be as simple as "probability". It's seen as justifiable to send out a whole regiment with 1000 men on a mission where the expected number being killed are 50%. So around 500 of 1000 killed. While at the same time it's seen as immoral to send out a single guy on a mission with a 100% probability of getting killed. So for "forced pregnancy" to work it needs to contain a certain probability of not getting pregnant. But to a certain extent I do agree with you. If men are expected to risk everything in the defense of society so should women.
France won WWI, but the massive loss of its young soldiers left France weak for two generations. From the apogee of its power to depopulated in many rural areas (where many had been sent to the war). Ukraine is in an even worse situation than France, even if it achieves a limited victory. Ukraine will be in for a tough time for a generation or two.
Before Napoleonic wars, France was the most populated country in Europe and incontested super power on the continent. After 1815, France's demography had taken a massive hit and NEVER recovered from it, and never again played the first roles in history.
@@rikothearcher1743without any guarantee that you will actually escape from this concentration camp! There's a big chance that you will be detained by border patrol and lose your money and next thing you know you are a cannon fodder on a frontline!
The thing that most people dont understand is that ukraine will lose its independence because of demographics more so than military actions (on its own as it stands at least), Millions of young women have left Ukraine and are unlikely to return.
Same with russia. Russia is doomed. They have wasted so much resources in Ukraine. Many russian male have fled while there birth rate is dogshit. Russia is a dying giant. Much more than USA.
@@schneejacques3502 Countries future depends on females not males A society can survive losing 80% of its male population but not even 10% of its female population
Back in the Soviet times, Ukraine had a population about 50 million people, while Uzbekistan - 15 million or so. By 2030, Uzbekistan is projected to reach the 30 million people milestone, while Ukraine will also have 30 million or less, depends on how to count, which territories to consider. That’s how for the lifetime of just one generation one country may catch up with more than 3x gap, which would seem close to impossible from the first sight.
Thank you! I have been saying this from the start. Ukraine already had abysmal demographics, compounded by emigration and then they were hit by a terrible war. The longer this goes on the less chances there are of the nation just surviving, forget winning. It is, beyond the obvious, why I see this war as such a massive tragedy. And why I was suspicious of Western support for the war. It was clear one two things needed to happen, either Ukraine won quickly, likely necessitating immense Western support and quite likely direct involvement too. Or less favorably Ukraine needed to lose quickly, ideally with a negotiated settlement rather than military defeat. But what happened? The exact wrong thing. They were given enough support to resist but not enough to win. Exactly as one would do if the goal wasn't to save Ukraine but to bleed Russia. A long drawn out war that will be fought to the last Ukrainian. If you don't know what someone wants, watch what they do. Unfortunately what I feared has come to pass and I hate everything about this situation. I am not surprised a Czech like you would notice it too. Us Slavs have to stick together eh? ;)
@@kikodekliko1209 many reasons, not least of which is that just like people countries can be irrational too. Another factor is that us Slavs are a proud and passionate sort and often fight beyond the point of good sense out of spite. On the other end of the spectrum you will also note people being clobbered all over Ukraine and dragged forcibly into the army. The leadership can act against the will of the general populace. As to why the leadership wants to keep the war going? Maybe they are out of touch, it's easy to send others to fight and die for you. Also consider that Ukraine is a very corrupt country. One that went through a US backed coup at that, I am certain many of their leaders are bought and paid for and may not act in the best interest of the people. Finally to bring it back to the primary subject of the video, demographic issues take time to manifest and aren't readily apparent in the moment. Say you are in a country that is aging but has not yet reached mass retirement age yet. Things seem fine, you see kids running around not noticing it is much less than there should be. The economy is doing well and things just run normally, what's the big deal? But fast forward a decade or two and suddenly the economy is sluggish, the pension fund is creaking and the whole state apparatus with it and you are faced with the choice of letting your elders starve or inviting foreigners in at mass. The same in Ukraine, they can't yet tell how fucked they are so they keep going. By the time it is painfully obvious the war will be long over and the damage done. That is why demographic issues are so insidious, they are slow and gentle at first but hard and inevitable in the end. Meaning that the majority is content to ignore them and the farsighted can only play the Cassandra and stew in quiet despair.
@@darthmortus5702I think a lot of Ukrainians are quite apathetic about the war. However, voicing dissent gets you sent straight to the front. Much better to try and sit this out. I suspect many are doing just that, seeing how the government just can't find more men despite there being millions more supposedly.
Not insane, compared to mentioned Bulgaria, Romania and also what happened with Baltics. All those countries lost more people since 1991 than they did in both world wars combined. I will call a spade a spade: this is a genocide. The one nobody talks about.
yeah, lot of people went west Here in Germany they are the second biggest immigrant population now. Second only to the turks who have been coming here for the last three decades. Three decades vs not even three years. It depends on how long the situation at home will go on and how it ends if people decide to return or not. Most Ukrainians still plan to go home but if their cities get occupied? Will they? Who knows. They are slowly being integrated here tho, the people are merging, it's especially apparent with students and such. But there are also their churches popping up now. I guess we can only wait and see if it will end like with quite a lot of the yugo refugees who went back or if it will be more of a persian diaspora who will only longingly look back at the lands they once called home while their children begin to wear Lederhosen and Dirndl.
yeah, and 90% of the recent refugees will never return to the Ukraine. I know some of them. They all plan to stay here in western Europe. Kids in school. Well paying jobs. Prosperity. No way they'll go back to a war torn nation full of mines and ruins.
If Russia is a country of contrasts, then Ukraine is a country of paradoxes. Ukrainian politicians say they do not want negotiations because it is a war for existence. But the residents of Ukraine are in no hurry to get to the front, they just want to live, no matter in the EU or the EAEU. Politicians who do not rush to the front themselves take the right to speak for the people of Ukraine, who literally do anything to avoid falling into the hands of the military enlistment office. Meanwhile, residents of Melitopol and Mariupol are still experiencing frontline danger, but have the right to leave this territory, including leaving Russia for European countries. (Which in recent months have increasingly promised to start handing over Ukrainian citizens as cannon fodder into the hands of the Ukrainian government)
It never was a war of existence. Russia is not interested in reducing ukrainian population, its interested in once and for all securing Ukraine as either a puppet state or part of Russia, to never again deal with the political issues it causes.
@@sirius6738 if there are basically 2 sides so half the population is on some side, then you can have all sort of statements. But if we take vast majority of Ukrainians that support armed defense, i state this is not their approach. And even such question in poll or survey seems absurd. You would need to define the term first coz its so abstract term that it can mean almost anythink (last plane, last tank, last soldier, last men, last women, last child...)
isn't Kissinger the highly controversial Nobel peace prize winner and semi-warcriminal all at the same time. btw this 'quote' by Kissinger isn't at all documented and is thought to have been said in a phone call to an ex-cia newspaper writer. this quote isn't original too because Kissinger paraphrased this quote from another guy Aleksey Efimovich Vandam in his book Наше положение here it is, Vandam's original quote after some looking "Наконец наступает очередь и Китая, который после своих разнообразных опытов с англичанами и американцами смело мог бы сказать теперь - «плохо иметь англосакса врагом, но не дай Бог иметь его другом!»." in english "Finally, it is the turn of China, which, after its various experiences with the British and Americans , could safely say now - 'it is bad to have an Anglo-Saxon as an enemy, but God forbid to have him as a friend!'." to add, this is also post-boxer rebellion China
"Может ли Украина оправится от последствий?" Нет,не может.В одной временной точке собрались все проблемы за все годы независимости.Как может страна кладбище еще и оправится от войны?Вдумайтесь отсюда убегут моментально все оставшееся мужское население(которое целые: с руками,ногами)как только "военное положение"(лол) закончится.Разве юноша от 16-27+ задумывается о своем будущем здесь??Нет.Украина - это просто страна противоречий.Без понятия кто вообще рисует какие-то соц.опросы и другие графики касающиеся общества и его настроев в Украине и для кого.Тут даже вопрос стоит в том:"А захочет ли мужчина создавать семью?".Война вообще не объединила людей,а наоборот - они стали еще хуже и злее,а тут еще и поднимают вопрос демографии?????Думаю,что даже за деньги мужчина в украине не будет сувать куда-то для чего-то(да и оставлять ребенку будущее с долговыми обязательствами?).К сожалению(или к счастью кому как)у этой войны один конец и он никак не на стороне Украины🙁
So here are my 2 cents. The current situation in Ukraine is the following: low to non-existing birth rates, economic preferences toward migration for women and men who are able to migrate, low amounts of young people, lowered morale compared to the beginning of the war. So in short, we are doing our best with the one of the worst hands dealt. My city is devastated, so there is no economic or emotional interest for me to come back. A lot of friends are no longer here physically, and those that do stay want to leave. It is a terrible tragedy to witness such events unfold before your own very eyes. When people don't want to sell you supplies on the first day of war, like salt or bread. Huge lines of people waiting for humanitarian aid. Artillery in the distance mixed with the sound of aviation at night. I don't know about you, but that really removes the veil from the illusion of stability. I don't know what to make of it still. But there is a sadness and sorrow that is apparent and is not felt by those that have not witnessed/lived it.
Just in 2 years you are crying? This was imposed on Iraqis for 20 years, 10 years before that we had sactions in which even importing pencils was banned as US said that saddam will take graphite from pencils and use in nuclear reactor. Even before that we Iraqis were bombed by us in first Gulf War. Prior to that 10 years we had a war with Iranians in which US sold weapons to both sides. Still most Iraqis live in Iraq and you are crying and leaving your country in just 2 years of war?
@@atherzaidi5871 It's not his fault. Most of the Ukrainian Women were the 1st to leave the country. I live in Western European countries and have observed that all Ukrainian women have partners from Western countries. How man will be motivated to fight war when their own women are sleeping with men from another countries. One of the greatest mistakes was to let women migrate.
I weep for Ukraine. However, it would be wrong for me to not acknowledge that Poland has greatly benefited from the contributions of Ukrainian workers who are currently filling jobs that the Polish economy needs. It is also providing a bit of a boost to the demographics, as the children of the ones who stay will grow up Polish.
I do not weep at all. Ukraine's arrogance and its worship of those who slaughtered Poles has earned them their fate as a Polish-dominated rump state, with their population essentially turning into Poles by way of being assimilated within Poland.
AHAHAHAHAHH!!!! SOLID HEALTHCARE!!!!! Im ukrainian who living in Canada for last 2 years. And can say honestly this medicine is a piece of crap compare to ukrainian. When doctor asking you: `What diagnose do you think you have?" and sending you to a blood test 4 times per month its NOT OK. Yes Canada have good doctor specialists. BUT! YOU HAVE TO WAIT IN QEUEU FOR A F MONTH OF MORE!!!! In Ukraine you can visit any specialist in 1st visit in a live queue. Do all blood tests+ultrasound+urine+MRI+X-ray and all other test in SAME DAY without BOOKING A F*****NG APPOINTMENTS. You dont need to wait in queue for monthes for surgery that you needed. And on top of that you can buy like 80% of medicine without prescription
Im waiting when war is end to fix my health and teeth back in Ukraine. Despite the terrible architecture, urban planning standards outdated by 50 years, disgusting medicine and a bubble in real estate prices I love Canada. Here people get paid very well, there is no corruption, adequate police, stability, confidence in the absence of war in the next 50 years and good nature.
They are unlikely to understand this. This is a very resentful people in the majority. A significant place in Ukrainian culture is occupied by the concept of "it doesn't matter that your cow is dead, it's bad that the neighbor's is alive."
@@eliotness4029 they voted for quite an opposite. check the election programm of Zelensky. To stop the war by any means, and to negotiate even with devil, if it is needed. But, as usual, election is just a show.
What are you talking about? so stupid take. We voted for different preisdents different times, but nobody have the right to make an unlawfull military intervention.. this war is terrible, like a hell on the earth and nobody cares.. Ukraine - is not ideal, but have a Right for living peacefully. The same about Georgia, Moldova.@@eliotness4029
Ukraine is indeed destroyed as a country, compared to what it was before. It used to be a sizeable 50-million-inhabitants nation, always somewhat fated to lose 20%-ish of its population at the turn of the century if we compare to the rest of Eastern Europe. Now, however, the country is a "zombie" since while it looks like it has 30 million inhabitants those are in fact mostly elders and the number of births is as low as 200 thousand a year (which gives you an expected population of less than half of 30 million for modern Ukraine's life expectancy). The other demographic aspect of this war is that it is making Ukraine linguistically more homogenous due to Russian speakers being gobbled up by Russia either due to migration or the take over of territory. In the end, it seems to me that Ukraine is becoming (in the words of John Mearsheimer) a rump state, which will be relatively large geographically but with a productive population closer to that of the Netherlands than to that of Poland. And if the war continues and they recruit younger people I can't help but that think it will be even worse. In a position such as theirs, protecting their human resources would seem to me to be the most important aspect of all in this war.
All oblasts of Ukraine have low birthrates, but the Western and predominantly Ukrainian-speaking ones have been having significantly higher birthrates for decades, and this will likely continue. Also, Ukrainianisation as of now has been very successful, with visible results. My city, Dnipro, has turned from like 10% to 30% Ukrainian-speaking in the last four years, and the general prestige and interest in the language has sharply increased among the people who have not switched yet. The future of Dnipro will be either Ukrainian-speaking or, although it hurts me to admit, a Mariupol. Maybe even worse because it is situated on the Dnipro river and will be very well defended and fortified
@@user-gj4wj6ws3g Russia will work to bring Lvov and the surrounding region down to size. They will seize Odessa, landlocking it, and encourage the likes of Hungary and Poland to take their own slices. The fate of a future Western Ukraine state, rests on how whoever is running it, deals with Russia. If on friendly terms, Russia will tolerate its existence. If not, that State will not last for long in any coherent manner.
@@user-gj4wj6ws3gIndeed, Ukraine has a decent regional imbalance in birth rates (although all bellow 2.1 some were closer to 2 than to 1), which favored the more rural and more Ukranian regions, and probably in each region the Ukranian-speaking population which is also more rural than the Russian speakers. That, coupled with the emigration towards Russia, made the long term trends already point towards slow and steady ukranization of the territory, but with the war this process becomes both faster, more complete, and more traumatic, excepts it's no longer over whe whole of the 1991 borders of Ukraine.
@@user-gj4wj6ws3g In conditions of anti-Russian hysteria, people try to speak Ukrainian so as not to cause aggression or persecution from radical patriots and Ukrainian authorities, based on hostility or suspicion of espionage and sympathy for Russia. But after the war, the spread of the Ukrainian language will be determined by political and economic factors. If the end of the war is on Russia’s terms, bans on the Russian language, trade and cooperation with Russia are lifted, then the Russian language will be restored in the Dnipro and other eastern regions of Ukraine.
In conditions of anti-Ukrainian hysteria, people try to speak Russian so as not to cause aggression or persecution from radical patriots and Russian authorities, based on hostility or suspicion of espionage and sympathy for Ukraine. But after the war, the spread of the Russian language will be determined by political and economic factors. If the end of the war is on Ukraine’s terms, bans on the Ukrainian language, trade and cooperation with Ukraine are lifted, then the Ukrainian language will be restored in the Belgorod and other western regions of Russia. @@milaro222
When I read Strauss-Howe generational theory it stated that my generation, the Millennials, would be this cycle's Greatest/GI-generation. At 37, I figured I was too old for the draft, so the whole theory was probably incorrect. But now I realise that, because of the dreadful demographics of most countries, it *will* be us that's sent to die in the coming war, and not the younger generations like Z and Alpha. They will need to be protected to ensure that any given country actually has a future at all.
Unfortunately, those new generations dont see a value in their culture; they have spent their entire lives being indoctrinated in the woke ideology; they on their own do not have the desire to maintain their countries and cultures.
No, but a full scale military intervention might. Remember, in order for the USA to get all the money and equipment back they loaned Ukraine, they might have to go the war, like they have done before. When Russia wins the war and Ukraine stops existing, it is bye bye investment. The USA has gone to war for that exact reason in the past.
US companies want Ukrainean land, but not the people living on it. Black earth is among the best soil in the entire world. So Black Rock and others have already buyed a huge part of Ukraine. The more Ukraineans disappear by civil war, war, epedemics, alcohol, demographic decline and migration, the easier it becomes to grab more land.
@@j.k.1239 Which is worthless when imported labor is low skill meanwhile a former Soviet republic at least had Soviet higher education in place before the 90s.
Excellent and well-researched information. Overall, the tragedy of Ukraine happened when the government are far detached from the reality of the country they presumably lead.
Eu can send muslim refugees and asylum seekers to ukraine after war and force them to marry with ukranian women and bounce back demographic collapse. Muslim men can make 5 to 10 babies so ukraine does not need to worry. Ukraine has huge land and can sustain almost 50 million refugees and asylum seekers. Eu can provide benefits to people who settle in ukraine. Ukraine will have lots of houses left and they can be housed.👍👍👍
@@gireeshan-bd6hi Well, someone will have to build those houses, bc the current destruction of cities doesn't boost the housing capacity. + men can't have babies ;) + I doubt our *women* would agree to a forceful marriage. Moreover, your dystopian society project that views people as some sort of cattle, doesn't require immigration. The need for men is minimal then. You require women. And many of them left the country for now.
In 1990, population ratio of Russia and Ukraine was 3:1 (150m:53m) After victory, Russia will annex the former southern and eastern Ukraine. New ratio of the population of Russia and Ukraine will be 10:1 (RUS 160m: UKR 15m). Ukraine will never be able to threaten Russia again.
How easy it is to blame Ukraine! It immediately removes any moral need to help and dismisses difficult questions outright. Its like having a sister who was raped by a rich, powerful man but instead of fighting the man, you blame your sister. The man is scary and any legal/physical fight will be dangerous for you personally. Yet the need to fight "disappears" if your sister is wrong! Just tell her (and yourself) that she should not have worn that dress and voila! Problem solved.
@@fungames24 like I thought, the "dont wear that dress argument" (i.e. cowardice and appeasement) won out. Even your boy Tucker Carlson admitted the Nazis narrative is bullshit. But don't you worry, you can still bring up biolabs, bad-faith concern for Ukrainian lives, false dichotomy between the border and foreign aid, resale of supplied military equipment, and lots of other bullshit arguments.
@@fungames24 yo man, I'm 17 y.o ukrainian and you know what? For my whole life in Ukraine I never saw any nazis any nationalist things you believe we have. Bruh..
Whatifalthist is correct. The demographics of the Ukrainian war and other approaching wars look like and will look like the Thirty Years War. Limited manpower availability, wars both civil-domestic and foreign simultaneously. An environment where the fighting man is at a premium and can make excessive demands, whereas the conflicts themselves are dragged out.
He’s insufferable and half of what you said makes little sense especially fighting men being at a premium and making excessive demands? My guy, Ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and sent to the front to be mowed down. The last sentence I agree with though, choose better minds he’s an absolute tool.
Moral of the story: 1) Don`t start the war, when you already suffer from demographic problems. 2) Don`t sell your country to americans, it`s never ended well.
@@TheStulnoga >bombing own people proof? >ceasefire agreements with an entity of foreign creation (Igor Girkin&the Russian intelligence) that violated them daily since they were signed also don't forget the Russian """humanitarian""" aid of T-72B3s and Buks in 2014&15
@@TheStulnoga >bombing own people proof? >ceasefire agreements that those false entities created by Russian intelligence themselves ("новоСоссия") violated since the day there were signed?
It's ironic that Ukraine's demographics were in their most prosperous state during the Soviet period, when they were supposedly 'under oppression'. However now, anything associated with the Soviet period is demolished and erased. This is a unique point in time, where a country actively cannibalizes its own history and cultural identity in order to manufacture a synthetic version of what they are 'supposed to be'. Truly, a frightening cautionary tale for anyone determined to follow in their footsteps.
Insignificant numbers of refugees ever return home after moving westward. 200 thoussnd Ukrainian refugee in Canada and .almost none will return and, in contrast, family members will join then both during snd after the conflict.in addition, 65 thousand of these are military aged males who tend to be better educated and skills in demand.
same what Brazilian did to Paraguay after it killed 1/3rd of its population in a bloody war it waged on for many years..the Brazilians armies settled there ended up having three to five wives at some cases cause a lot of males in Paraguay ended up killed in war no one else would impegrenate those local Paraguayan womens... kinda creepy but. its a history
it's economical protentional was PHENOMENAL, that's why USSR spend trillions to invest in industry here... Now all is dust. We (Ukrainians and Russians) had a saying: “Forgive us Yuri (Gagarin, first human in space), we fucked everything up!”. I peer into his smile and barely hold back my tears.
few years ago me and my friend(both ukrainians) joked that this land is cursed, this land so fertile because of how many blood was spilled on it during it's history. With every month i understand that we were fucking right, unfortunately. Don't repeat our mistakes.
I am Ukrainian but both in Serbia, never visited Ukraine. However, my grandmother watched her father (grand-grandfather) kidnapped in front of her to fight in some war. Sounds familiar? He never received a funeral, his body was never found, just dead out there somewhere. What a cursed land...my ancestors were right to move, and I am right to move from Serbia too if I can.
@@limitess9539 In past centuries, this happened everywhere and in every warring country. Mobilization meant that all the men were taken by force. And they beat and so on. We must not forget history. In the 20th century, essentially in the age of dictatorships, this was the absolute norm, it’s just that now such a war seems unrealistic according to the thinking of the 21st century (democratic thinking)
@@thehawk8486 I know, that's why we have to try to change the system. Slavery was legal in the ancient world, women couldn't get schooled,work and other things. Do such things still exist? Yes, women in Afghanistan, I guess some people are de facto slaves. But most aren't anymore. Things change, and changes are needed in this area, for us guys, but also for everyone in general. A system change.
@@limitess9539Since you’re ethically ukraine due to ancestral origins. Do you consider yourself a serb? How do you feel about serbs supporting Russia against Ukraine?
They’re fighting to join NATO so their kids won’t have to fight…. In a war against an enemy, who is fighting so that they won’t join NATO, and the Russian kids won’t have to fight them in the future. If NATO wasn’t trying to bring Ukraine in as a forward base of operations for their eventual move on Moscow, none of this would’ve happened in the first place.
Ukraine demographics is really facing a four sided issue 1) not enough birth rate 2) high death rate from alcholism and unhealthy diet 3) high casualities from the war, espeically the reproductive age people 4) rampant corruption and poor economic outlook, so mass migration out of ukraine. so they're already rapidly declining, with the war leading a terminal blow.
My friends in Ukraine have a joke that it will soon become a country of brides. Men there are now considered exclusively as cannon fodder for the front, and we must not forget that this fact greatly affects their mortality rate.
@@Bender3712 she isn't in the mood after he brother has his legs blown off and wears adult diapers in a wheelchair, and after her father gets his eyes harmed by shrapnel from an artillery shell and becomes blind, so keep your tongue to yourself
Zelensky said that he'll use mass immigration to replace all the lost people and make Ukraine the most multicultural country in the world. So if Ukraine somehow manages to stay a country, expect millions of Africans to arrive shortly.
@@Nordbon1523 If Zelensky does not surrender, that is the countries only hope in even having half the population they had before the war. Its completely over for the Ukrainian race.
Donbas has 4 million people currently under Russian control plus two other regions Zaporozhye and Herson and another 2.5 million refugees in Russia in addition to those 6-8 million in the EU, plus there are refugees in other countries which would make Ukraine probably closer to 20 million people. Plus if we take into account hundreds of thousands of dead and many more wounded you get a horrifying future because war is not finished yet and even decades after the war young people will be leaving to the better places. Short term predictions are impossible to make and not that significant, what is significant is the future projections, when a generational turn around happens in some 70 years. Then I expect Ukraine to be something in the range of 8 - 16 million people.
Ukraine has a large ethnic Russian population that largely stayed in Ukraine after the break up of the Soviet Union out of convenience and economic necessity. now? Russia would welcome them with open arms and the grass looks way greener on that side of the fence.
@@frostflower5555 hey, I don’t have a dog in this fight, I can understand why Russia wants access to Crimea, I can also understand that Crimea was never a part of Ukraine prior to Khrushchev gifting it to Ukraine for political reasons and I can understand why Russia wants it back……. But as far as I’m concerned, the rest of Ukraine can stay its own country as long as they don’t cause trouble for the whole planet by trying to invite NATO to set up in Russia’s backyard and cause World War III. I just want a solution to this that doesn’t get people killed, and I prefer that I don’t end up on that list of people who glow in the dark, because NATO can’t keep its hands to itself, and keeps trying to take over all of eastern Europe
It is not fertility what is important but quality of population. Poland can import 20-30mln Ukrainians and Poland soon will become a minority in its own country.
wait its legal to say this now ? I remember snowflakes and wester media bashing people like me for talking about this 2 years ago. Funny how this always go.
hard times create slavic migrants, slavic migrants produce money inflow creating good times and low unemployment, creating weak slavs bad times and more slavic migrants... with migrations local IQ falls...
You mean the lead up to the war, yeah? Absolutely!! The diplomacy leading up to the invasion was a disgusting failure. It really nauseates me to hear the mantra "unprovoked. unprovoked. Unpro..." Diplomatically, Europe, the UK, USA and Ukraine could not have been any more provocative. The war could have been so easily avoided. Zelenskyy's legacy. The man who flushed the poorest country in Europe down the toilet of history.
Ukraine had such good potential in 1991 with huge, educated population, strong agriculture, heavy industry AND great sea access... Could've been another Poland or Russia in terms of economy. But they did absolutely fuck all in the past 3 decades. Awful elites, corrupt, arrogant, suicidal. It's the biggest European tragedy post-cold war.
Elites were set by the west. When they lost elections, propaganda just refused to accept it. Ukrainian citizens were denied in democratic rights by NATO colonial management. And these managers have no reason to develop, just to exploit and run away.
They sell off almost all of their industry and military to the rest of the world . 😂 china get lot of soviet tech from Ukraine
Pretty much nailed it. And somehow, they think it's all someone else's fault
I don't know from which country you are, But imagine if your country is in between of two mega powers, one don't want to accept you and others want to occupy you again, you don't have access to any of their markets, and is a part of political and military play between west and east, both are not interested in your success and considering you more like buffer zone for future wars, do you think it is even possible to build a good state in these conditions?
Ukraine is East Africa 😂
demographics in europe are bad almost in every country but ukraine has that plus a war bad combo
Not in Ireland
@@hasinabegum1038 african migrants
@@hasinabegum1038 irlenad has 1,6 i googeled it not too bad but still below replecment i gusse you have fair amount of imigrants
@@michaekrynicki8330Almost 1.8
@@michaekrynicki8330let my people innnn
I am 17yo refugee from Ukraine. I escaped Ukrane in 2022 and now I am about to finish secondary education in Poland. I would say that the majority of people of my age are not going to return to Ukraine by any means neither want I.
Как Россиянин, я очень надеюсь, что будет мир. Хватит войн из-за глобалистов, и олигархов с другой стороны. Славяне убивают Славян.
@@alexbayer2365 Saddly, it seems that the era of Globalist oligarch wars has just begun.
@@alexbayer2365 Yeah, yeah put the blame on globalists and not on your own govt.
America may have used Ukraine but don't forget who launched the invasion and obliterrated these cities.
@@MyPrideFlag I said about my government. Probably translate mistake.
I mean putins band (oligarchs) and Putin himself, because oligarchs is his creature.
@@MyPrideFlag so, it’s about putins oligarchs who wants looting new territory, and globalists in the west. Like Soros
I am in Ukraine and can add one more point I am observing here:
Everyone I know, who has 16-17 yo son(s), is taking them out of the country behore they turn 18. Hope I shouldn't explain why. Don't see how this process can be stopped
Doesn't the border patrol stop men from leaving ?
@@baha3alshamari152 yes, after 18yo.
One more time. If your 18th b-day is tomorrow - you can leave. If today -sorry...Now you have to wait untill you turn 60y.o.
And then you can leave)
This is not a problem for Ukraine. It is difficult for a person in the 21st century to ask to fight and die. I assure you, this has befallen the entire Western world. And this is kind of good, but how to resist the hordes from the east-I do not know, to be honest
@@yakovlevskiy
Hordes??
@@baha3alshamari152 yes, what?
The German birthrate was 5-6 before ww1. The French and the English worried about a future of hundreds of millions of Germans. I wonder how birthrates could be raised for Europeans again.
Make women stay at home. Who do you think took care of those 5-6 children in their family? Sorry but we dont live in that era anymore
And the average European before WW1 was 5x poorer compared to the present.
Large families economically made sense in the pre-hydrocarbon era when the muscle energy predominantly "propelled" the civilization forward. Once the coal, oil & gas energy became the dominating source of energy, having many children became economically unviable.
The people with lower birthrates fade out in population, while leaving the people with higher birthrates.
I have the answer for high birthrates.
Ban birth control and abortions.
As if all this wasn't bad enough, the average 25 year old Ukrainian woman has had something like 2 or 3 abortions compared to only ~0.5 in the west, which has a further negative impact on fertillity especially considering the lesser medical standards there.
Number of abortions was exorbitant in Soviet times, now with better access to contraception it is much lower. Could be still higher than in EU, though.
@@bilakpp why so many abortions over there ??.
Okay, but I disagree with you on the "justified part" for men being forbidden to leave the country. What kinda law is that? I am Ukrainian, and to see even dogs and cats being let out of the country while men aren't allowed is atrocious, a man's life is worth less than a dog's in Ukraine.
Males are always expandable
Men can't get pregnant unlike women
1 man can impregnate hundreds of women in a year
A woman can get pregnant only once a year even if she slept with hundreds of men so the value of men is always low
Where are the feminists of Ukraine now? If they won't shoulder the responsibility why should women have full rights and be allowed to vote while men die for their decisions?
It is crazy to me.
This is the way it is. Any European country would do the same in case of devastating war.
@@vladsome6026 Either let everyone leave or don't let anyone leave, what kind of selective system is this? I hope more men wake up and stand against being pushed around as cannon fodder. And I mean this for all, not only Ukrainians. I was born in Serbia, never visited Ukraine. And here we have hundreds of thousands of Russians who left after the 2022 invasion, many of them draft dodgers, and they're all equally my free brothers. This outdated system is rotten, changes are needed, a whole system change.
Short answer: No
Ukraine was already one of the worst economies and demographics in Europe before the war. Very few Ukrainians would choose to return if they have the choice to stay in a stable, wealthy country instead.
These are just the facts.
And one more thing:
The sheer corruption in Ukraine, which probably doesn't decrease during wartime, will be a great detriment to any aid for rebuilding the country.
As I said: No.
The current demographic decline in Ukraine is unique because it combines all the features that contribute to demographic decline, such as war, a difficult economic situation, mass emigration, absent of cultural traditionalism, absent of even ability to push state-sanctioned pro-natalist politics. It's truly horrific.
A bellwether for Europe and the wider liberal West.
Western values are self-defeating and have no future.
Ukraine still relatively traditional tough
@@lucaslevinsky8802 In theory yes but in effect Ukrainian women simply do not hold up to their reputation
@@horatiuscocles8052 I hear only two things about Ukrainian women: either this traditional stuff or the OF gold digger one.
Ukraine is pretty traditional
my god .. this country got destroyed beyond repair
isn't it beautiful?
something like that happened to the native americans.
It's much worse. Their casualty numbers are far higher. They got in bed with a demon across the ocean.....
At least they have a strong support, look at the middle east or Africa
@@Mesopotamia-v6d middle eastern countries like Dubai, Saudí Arabia and Qatar are way better than Ukraine now
In the past: 5 workers work hard enough to pay for 1 retiree.
The future: 5 worker works hard enough to pay for 5 retiree.
1 worker, 5 retiree* fixed
Not wuite but almost. Here in Switzerland where I live it used to be (1948) 7:1, and by the year 2100 it should be 2:1. Absolutely impossible. Doing it via productivity increases is likely a pipe dream.
According to this logic, poor countries with the highest birth rates should have the best retirement benefits.
Yeah, but why? I know in Canada, it's public pension schemes is moving on to the point where the cash to pay pensions to retirees came from the retirees themselves, instead of burdening the current generation of workers. It is better system in that it solves the problem of demographic bulges. The unavoidable problem though is how to fund the pensions of future retirees who are unable to work currently.
A model based on a Ponzi scheme was never going to last long term.
An interesting lense to look at the Syrian war would be that of demographic shift, not in the sense of population decline, but rather in the sense of ethnic shift. Syrian refugees are much more likely to be sunni muslims than minority groups in comparison to their share of the Syrian population, and this has led to the share of people belonging to groups such as the alawites of Bashar al Asad growing.
Not too that extent. Syrians had many children and the Sunni lower classes especially. The escape of anti Assad refugees means only the status quo being preserved in the Syria. There will never be a significant shia or alawite percentage in Syria, however had the war no happened they would have been a really small minority and the future of their rule would have been in danger. In many ways the war cemented Assads and his cronies rule by causing the status quo to be protected.
@@muratbayraktar5035I agree with your point. I didn't mean to say the population shifted in a massive degree, but it did prevent the completion of the "natural" trend where sunnies become the overwhelming majority, and now they are probably closer to half of the population with alawites going from 1/10 to 1/6
Any sources? How many sunni have emigrated? Many are pro Assad too.
@@muratbayraktar5035 This is actually not true, most of the Syrian govt fighters were sunni, the sunni opposition was filled with fighters from everywhere but Syria. Some estimate put the foreign fighter percentage at 45%. The fight was CIA inspired, there was never a sunni vs shia clash in Syria. If you dont know, Assad's wife is sunni and most of his cabinet is sunni also.
@@uche007us they are mostly sunni because there is also secular sunnis in Syria who Assad allied with. There arent any shias or christians with the protestors, they are all Sunni Jihadists.
The last population count in Ukraine was made in 2001, so data we are pulling from the internet is questionable.
It's extrapolation hypothesis
@@steveagola9317 it's a fact that even the government of Ukraine is struggling to know exactly where how much people, adresses and other stuff but someone in some western country far from Ukraine is analyzing some data from internet.
The fact that they couldnt conduct a count in 21 years says a lot about how functioning the state is. Btw, very accurate predictions can be made from the number of working people (obviously not during a war). The state must know how many people pay taxes, and can have very concrete numbers about people working in the black economy too.
The fact that Ukraine hasn’t had a census in over 20 years is wild to me. In the U.S., we do one every 10 years minimum.
How corrupted Ukraine was to really forgotten to conduct census? It's not that hard though? My country reach 100m 2 years ago and now were 120m! Fck!
У нас в Украине правительство проводит суицидальную политику.
1) Закрытые границы для мужчин. Люди чувствуют себя рабами психически страдая от невозможности самостоятельно распоряжаться своей жизнью.
2) Насильственная мобилизация гражданских, что вынуждает людей скрываться, работать неофициально выпадая из экономики вместо того, что бы приносить пользу государству на месте.
3) Отсутствие ротации для военных которые вынуждены годами находится в зоне боевых действий, что явно сказывается на рассудке людей и возможности их интеграции в гражданскую жизнь в дальнейшем.
В итоге правительство генерирует коллапс демографии, экономики. Я не вижу светлого будущего для страны при таких условиях.
"Люди чувствуют себя рабами"... Ну так чувствуют себя соответственно своему реальному статусу. ТЦК вас гоняют как пастух овец.
Насчёт пункта 3 не уверен. Я читал что Украина проводит ротацию хотя бы раз в 3-6 месяцев.
@@altahad11 на практике пока не ранят никакой ротации.
@@altahad11 если только ротация такая: гражданка - фронт - могила. Другой ротации там нет, иначе бы ТЦК так не лютовали.
И все равно 80% говорит, что хочет воевать до территорий 91 года. Тебя с говном смешают в укр чатах, если только заикнуться про передачу крыма. Но воевать при этом никто не хочет. Я вообще не понимаю украину.
Ukraine has been going through a demographic hit for some time befoere the war
The EU commission president talks a good game thsr Ukraine belongs in Europe
But once they do become a EU wirh freedom of movement, you dont need ro look further than Bulgaria to see their future
Bulgaria didn't suffer a destructive war like Ukraine
Without war Ukraine is similar to Bulgaria
@@baha3alshamari152Except Ukraine had lost the population pré war without being inside Schengen yet. Ukraine was already one of the poorest parts of Europe on par with Bosnia, Moldova and Albania. It could easily have lost another 20% hit to their population after integration.
Вы понимаете что будет когда Украина присоединится и Украине дадут права наравне со всеми европейцами? Как вы думаете почему Турция несколько десятков лет так и не стала ещё членом ЕС ?
@@user-bs1zo3lg8f Slovak and Czech politicians openly say that they want Ukraine only to take their young population to their factories.
I think that both sides is aware that Ukraine needs a lot of time to recuperate before joining the union, they just demonstrate that both sides are interested for this to happen at some point.
Men fight and women fall in love of money with EU men 😂😂😂😂
Men have no choice, they are locked up in the country and they are forbidden to leave, so Zelensky and the United States decided. Ukrainian men turned into slaves
EU men likes ukranian women even with kids??.
You missed one key point in any future Ukraine has - sovereign debt.
Quite a sizable amount of western military help is provided as loans. So, whatever population is left in Ukraine after the dust settles, it will be absolutely crushed economically by overwhelming sovereign debt. On top of having half a population on all kinds of social support.
Everything Ukraine received was a loan, no one donated anything despite the news articles. Ukraine is finished as a country.
this country is dead and I'm glad I left it befoe getting forced into conscription and becoming another KIA.
Traitor
@@JamesSmith-ix5jd I'm not a traitor of something I never pledged to
Збираюсь зробити те саме, молодець
@@comelfon беги, пока не поздно! мой товарищ успел перейти через румынскую границу ещё осенью, 6 дней по горам. сейчас такое уже вряд ли получится, погранцы лютуют - тепловизоры, дроны, нагнали вояк на отлов мяса (((
@@chud21Lucky you. Maybe you can return or visit once it becomes a Russian province.
As someone who had studied this exact topic for at least 10 years. I can tell you that the official demographics are not always right.
To my understanding it went something like this:
1993 ~ 52 mil.
2003 ~ 48 mil.
2013 ~ 42 mil.
2021 ~ 37 mil.
2023 ~ 22 mil.
Which is an absolutely staggering number. At around 30 mil. people population decline in 30 years.
Wrong stats. 2021 37 million because part of territory occupied by Russia, but population still stayed there. So with international borders in 2021 were ~ 40 millions. Now its ~32 millions without refugees.
22 mln is 100% bullshit. 30+ mln anyway.
If your sources differ, you want to state the sources
From what ass do you pull your numbers, in 2021 was 43 mil people
@@siloton my sources are my own research, you take the official statistic from various official ( i. e. ukrstat) and semi official sources (mostly in Russian and ukr.) and extrapolate the results. Things like electricity generation, food , gasoline consumption, transport etc etc, as well as the official numbers of people who left for Russia and Europe+ .
I can also let you in on a little secret, as there were the "official numbers" and also "inside numbers" used to calculate different gov. per capita parameters. And the official the official number was 42 million, but their internal number was 37 million... But in reality it was closer to 32 mil. according to my calculations...
Yes, the number jumps all over the place, but ukr. statistics is extremely complicated. As I believe they had counted people from Crimea and Donbass ,as well as a couple of million people who were permanently staying and working in Europe, they counted them as part of the population, hence why that much discrepancy. But I've given the official internal number anyway for 2021 because it's easier that way. Though right now I don't know which internal number they are using now, but you have your official statistics people who had left for Russia and Europe, you subtract it from the official number before the conflict ( + losses), and you will arrive at the number I've provided, at around 22 mil. (give or take a few mil), half of which are kids and elderly.
@@korana6308 Using that method, Russia’s population has declined from 150 million to 130 million. By 2100 it’s projected to decline to 90 million
What the war between Russia and Ukraine has shown is the importance of the human factor, specifically young men and demographics in general.
Ukraine has mobilized more men then any country in NATO except the US, but lacks the industrial base to supply an army of that size. And Russia has already proven that it s MIC an easily outproduce that of the US and EU combined.
Thank you Russia for saving Ukraine every day
@@TurtleChad1 saving it? These stupid war is accelerating the population decline in Ukraine.
@@josephdurso5894 so easy the bought 1,-3 milion shells from NK?
NK gifted then to Russia, Russia didn't even asked for shells.@@michaekrynicki8330
I don't believe the government in Kyiv is able to provide for all those people. Retirees, veterans, and so on. They will be left to fend for themselves. Nothing new to be honest. But in most countries, there is a set of population that could repopulate the country even if the population and state would collapse, but I don't see that anywhere in Ukraine.
I wonder how they will be able to take care of all disabled war veterans.
What the fuck is a kiyev
@@love__and__hope__ They won't. In fact, something tells me the same men who got injured fighting Russia, will end up relying on Russia to care for them when all is said and done.
Kiev? It can't. It already functions on the money given to them by EU / US, the % of foreign funds in state's budget is about 50-60% (they've released an official paper somewhere).
The question is if someone else would be willing to pay for it or if Russia would be willing to pay for the damages (or if Russia would put a debt on Kiev for damaging "new" territories, should things turn into Ukrainian defeat).
Turning back to communism might unironically be an answer, but that would also be a massive face slap for Ukrainian allies.
@@love__and__hope__ They won't be able. Historically, such people were left to die in poverty in most of the ex-soviet states.
If you need some examples, check what was a compensation for Chernobyl Cleanup Operation. A lot of these people either got nothing or close to nothing.
That's the prime difference between the "western" Warsaw Pact members like Poland and Czechia (where communism was rather mild and reforms went well in the 90s) and those that had hardcore version of it (like Ukraine and other integrated soviet republics, which transformed into oligarchies).
Not only that, it is also a matter of culture. Ukraine and Russia never really cared for its people. They were merely peasants or resources to utilize. Reasons for that are plenty but it all kinda started when eastern europe was "spared" from the Black Death, which was a start of social reforms in the west (less people meant they needed to be treated better). Eastern Europe never had a reason for reforms, so it got entrenched in feudal relationships and structures.
The only "hope" these people have is the agreement Ukraine has with Poland that offers polish wellfare to some people on very attractive terms (like, you need to just work for few weeks to have minimal pension)...which is a potential social issue and might be revoked if polish government sees the sheer scale of people entitled to such benefits.
"Ukrainian leadership is aware of the tough demographic choices it faces " 😂😂😂lol, the Ukrainian government doesn't care about this
Nah, it cares much or less. They're dependent too.
@@kresbLeadership evacuated the people they cared about before locking the country down for ukranian men. Soon it will be time for diversity and other western values. Problem of too many white people in another country solved.
of course they not, they are not even ukrainians
@perseus274 money
The Oligarchs will just move to nice sunny spots and spent the capital amassed ...
They should move to Saskatchewan in great numbers, then proceed to recreate Ukraine in north America
U 🤡
It will be both a great project and the funniest historical joke of all time
Chat is this real
Trudeau would never allow it.
Thats a tragedy indeed. The officials made a mistake by locking the men in the country and letting 10mln women to leave freely for the EU and North America - Families are broken, decrease of women(cause 2/3 of them will never come back according to demographers), Disappearance of the country..
Another big thing that isn't visible in a lot of the statistics is the fact that a lot of the people that lived in Eastern Ukraine had dual Russian/Ukranian citizenship. This means that a lot of people escaped to Russia from the war with Russian passports and weren't counted as Ukrainians. A number I've seen from both Ukrainian and Russian sources over the last few months, still not fully confirmed though, is that the population of Ukraine could be as low as 19million at this moment
approximately + - minus as I counted, only I counted 21 million people now, but only I counted those Ukrainians who went to Europe. In short, the only way to save Ukraine is a complete transition to an AI economy where AI will work, and the second option is to make clones of people
As someone who lives in central Europe I know at least one guy who has a lot of friends who did exactly like him: bought fake Romanian and Hungarian passports and had free access to work black in EU. They practically speaking live in EU since almost 2 decades, went home only occasionally. So on paper and most certainly in every statistics they appear as they are still a workforce in Ukraine, yet their lives are materialistically completely unbound to it.
Without even mentioning that nowadays all of them applied for asylum and found official work.
I can even see that in future, once asylum is over, they will not go back for sure. The employers are glad to have them and they get paid well enough. Their homes became just a vacation destination. Nothing more.
@@cccpredarmy oh yeah, there's definitely a lot of cases like that, both with Ukranians that came to Russia and EU, frankly speaking, even after the war is over, chances are Ukraine's population will never recover, or at least not within our lifetimes
In Canada, the Ukrainian diaspora do in fact wish to return, however I'm not sure how much of that is because Canada is a hellscape in itself.
Why do they wish to return instead of actually returning
Canada can't have any migrants with a skin tone lighter than brown so they'll probably be deported back to Ukraine.
@@baha3alshamari152bad moment rn. Maybe wait until it joins the eu
@@baha3alshamari152because Ukraine is still in a war?
I am Ukrainian and something tells me that they are simply lying
this is one of the most painful and depressing vids I have seen for a long time. but thank for making it
What's depressing is that Ukraine could have simply surrendered and a mostly doomed future would have some level of a future.
@@dixonhill1108Ukraine could simply surrendered ?? So… if some foreign country will brutally attack your country, than it is sure, that your country and of course the peoples of your country want defend themselves against the tyranny and aggression and they want fight for their families, property, rights and freedom. Of course there are some peoples who will want abandon their home, because they are just scared of the war
@@dixonhill1108If Russia let them have a future which they wouldn’t.
What is with this childish rhetoric. Russia isn't a person, it's a not free country that can make free decisions. That's the difference between a democracy and autocracy. We can make choices they can't. @@andrewrogers3067
@@andrewrogers3067 If none of this happened after 2014, the country would be a richer version of Belarus since it has a nicer climate, fertile soil and natural resources. But these resources were its downfall. People want them and are ready to start trouble to get them.
Ukraine lost a whole generation of men....WHOLE GENERATION OF UKRAINE MEN....there will be no more Ukraine with that and the low birthrate worldwide
Actually Ukraine lost whole generation of women not men which is much more catastrophic
Yeah no more nazis and now ucrainian women are sleeping woth nigerian turkish hispanic men so from now on no more blond nazis and more mixed race are being born now 🤣🤣🤣
@@baha3alshamari152
>men dying in war
>women most affected
I'm german. Losing bunch of men in a war is not the end of the nation.
you are underestimating human nature.
@@Admiral_Jezza
I didn't say anything about that
My friends in Ukraine say the hryvnia is currently propped up by all the aid money. practically everyone there knows that once the war is over, no matter how it ends, that aid money will not be propping up the hryvnia and their money will collapse. I can see that leading to even more emigration. They say, it’s expected that after the war, all those war weapons will just be recycled into criminality and they will experience another 90’s, but maybe worse.
Exactly, inflation in 2022-23 was lower than even in 2014 and 2005. Ukraine's economy is a galvanized dead body, and switch is on the timer.
It doesn’t take a genius to understand that the Ukrainian economy is dead. A series of disgustingly weak leaders and an American coup with the help of the Nazis helped this happen. But every Ukrainian now shouts that he is independent. The main thing is not to turn off the American TV and it will get even worse. 🤣
Basically if Ukraine does not get post war reparations from Russia (which is frankly not a possible reality) its economy will collapse.
As well as in your ruzzia
@@SuperDarknessc not even close. No country props up Russia, so the fact economy is not collapsing but actually showing growth is nothing short of amazing.
Ukraine in
1990: We will live like in France!
2004: We will live like in Poland!
2014: We will live like in EU!
2022: We will live...
shee ne vmeerla hryuuukaina
2024: 🇷🇺
To be honest, even that isnt assured.
@@IgorDruzhinin-qo2vjni salo, ni vooobla
2030: we live in Russia
Despite the news said Ukraine is very resilient behind those facade its bleak. The whole country is literally in the lifeline of financial and military aid. Their whole government is run by money from the EU. They pay for their pension, compensation and services. If the aid are cut off the whole country might collapse almost immediately. The next election of US could now literally dictate the existance of Ukraine.
I usually don’t get moved by things now, but I saw a video of a Ukrainian psychologist who was saying he’s now seeing tons of patients who are men who set their girlfriends/wives and kids up to live in Europe for safety, only to be later told by them they’re now seeing a European boyfriend and not coming back, but they’re unable to do anything because they’re banned from leaving to be drafted. That got to me. Everyone who pushed to end Ukrainian neutrality has a lot of suffering on their hands.
It's what women are like. Funny how all the women leave hardship when men have to stay and fight.
I know a tragic story about that
It's just a failed state now
Ukraine never was a neutral country?
@@baha3alshamari152no that just means that there are millions of angry Ukrainian men ready to commit acts of terror to the cowardly west, who left them with empty promises.
putinbot. Ukraine is winning.
In 1990, Ukraine had more people than Poland and a better developed and more advanced economy than both Poland and Russia thanks to Soviet industries. Now, Poland has 4 times bigger economy and Moscow's city economy alone is twice the size of the whole of Ukraine. How can you even fail that bad? Ruthenians should not have be allowed to govern the whole territory of modern Ukraine in the first place, a massive Soviet mistake. They're simply not capable at this point.
Much of Ukraine's government isn't even Ruthenian. Zelensky is a Jew, as is much of the Ukrainian elite and govt like Ihor Kolomoysky, and they have looted the country. So don't just blame the Ukrainians. Also blame the commies who ruined the country and Russia.
Because the purpose of Ukraine was to start ww3, not build a prosperous country?
very interesting take, most of westerner willingly avoid talking about the significative differences between East and West Ukraine.
Uhm....maybe because Russia has influenced their politics, put corrupted oligarchs into the Ukrainian govt, and waged two devastating wars against the country for 10 years?
Plundered by corrupt officials who sold their country to the west.
You didn't mention that Ukraine had outward migration of 300-350K citizens every year since 1991.
This is a lie. 100-120 thousand yes
Which are not alarming numbers perse, it all depends on birth rates.
I'm Ukrainian, this was the best video on this topic IMHO.
it's so sad and I wouldn't cry over who is guilty but the situation is awful
Грустно? так чому не в окопе, иди защищай демократию
@@kazaaakplethkilik3229 ты хотя бы хрякам не соответствуй, чел очевидно не гонит на Россию
@@kazaaakplethkilik3229 А сам с передка пишешь?
I can't entirely agree with all of your comments, but your overall case is correct. One of the reasons war in the Middle East go on forever is that an Israeli family is about 3 to 4, a Gazan about 4 to 5 whereas a Ukrainian is about 1. It is one thing for a family of 4 to send off one person to war, another for a family of one. Ukraine cannot afford this war.
Both Israeli and Palestinian fertility has hit around 3 kids/women these days, and the Palestinian seem to fall faster than the Israeli.
@@SweBeach2023 you will find gaza is higher then israel
@@WagesOfDestruction true but the israeli arabs and the arabs in the West Bank have a fertility rate basically the same as the jews. The Gazans have more children because most are poor or just really religious. The fertility rate of orthodox jews is also simular to that of gazans while more secular arabs and jews seem to have simular fertility rates
And would you agree with me that this will affect their society's attitudes to war?
@@WagesOfDestruction Of course, I´m arab and i agree with you 100%. I also must add that the idea of being a martyr for the "watan"(Fatherland in arabic) is still very popular in not only palestine but in most arab or culturally simular countries like turkey or iran. Arabs are to a certein degree islamist but combine it with ethnic arab nationalism. This is becuase secular arab nationalism to unite all ethnic arabs, not muslims only arabs, was really popular in the arab world up until the 1970s and 1980s where islamist ideoligies started to penetrate arab society. Arab society is extremly distrustful of not only the jews but the west and so having this sort of enemy does also affect people´s willingliness to have the war we have now. This was the case in the 1940s and is still the case now.
3:35 yes a country can surrive like that but no country can surrive the british promising them something like boris johnson
What did Boris promise? Where can we check it?
@@YaGoodryl He promised weapons if Ukraine decided to resist the Russian army. A good thing at the time, but people who are fatigued by the war are now complaining about it, for various reasons.
@@YaGoodryl they tricked them that they would fully support them if they didnt do what they originally wanted which was the promise of their president in democratic will of the people after which he was elected to reach a settlement but in istanbul brits told them not to ofcourse this is their decision i respect that but it was extremely unfair to fight for your allies but when convenient not fully give them everything they need and at the end say this is a cheap way of fighting so called asiatic (i have no problems with asians)orcs without us europeans fighting them
Boris stymied peace talks and pressed for more carnage and bloodshed, his and NATOs pledges of military support have done naught but slightly prolong the inevitable, at the cost of a ridiculous amount of lives mind you. Zelenskyy the cross dressing comedian is a Manchurian candidate.
@@YaGoodryl The leader of Zelensky's party Arakmiya said that Boris Johnson "sabotaged" The 2022 peace talks by quote on quote "let's just fight them".
Ofc he denied it, but NYT recently published the peace agreement proposal, which essentially gave all land back aside from Crimea and the Donbass republics allowed it into the EU and so fourth.
Due to that some people are angry because Ukraine was promised constant support, which is falling flat.
You have not shown that 5,300,000 refugees have moved to Russia.
Some did not really move the border didd for them
@@Robert-qg6ue these are another 6 million, not the 5,3million that moved. thats the point most of us in the west do not get.
5.3 million moved to Europe, 2.9 million were deported to russia.
@@maarten1115 5.3 million were deported to europe, 2.9 million moved to Russia.
@@maarten1115clown.
You have to be honest: this was long before the war. The population decline in Ukraine began immediately after the collapse of the USSR.
An intresting fact: of all the post-Soviet countries, Ukraine is the only one whose GDP has not recovered after the collapse of the Soviet Union. (calculated taking into account inflation)
*after 1960s, that's when TFR became less than 2,1
I mean, have you heard about Ukraine? They have second unoficial economy called corruption. Their GDP was probably really high, just not officially.
@@kboid5919This second economy is called "shadow economy" or something similar, "corruption" is different thing.
@@kboid5919 may be, but it's related to all other countries too. May be, in less size, but everywhere we deal with it
@@krtst well, it's different. For example my mother was few years back on Ukraine. They payed bribes everywhere. They even payed bribes in public transport instead of buing normal tickets. I heard from a student that on Ukraine, to pass any exam you have to pay to the pocket of professeur. It's different land, ruled by oligarch mafia, where nothing is how it looks.
Goodbye Ukraine 🇺🇦
I think it's pretty obvious Ukraine is in deep trouble when it comes to demographics (52 -> 30 million decline in just 30 years).
But what can you do? When its ruling elite does almost nothing to modernize and win, the country is doomed.
Ironically, the neighboring Belarus (led by Alexander Lukashenko) is doing much much better (10 -> 9 million decline in 30 years).
Well for Ukraine, the difference can largely be attributed to war and fleeing refugees. Belarus can't really be compared
democracy means everyone has a chance to be plundered and become a mercanery for the empire
@@georgios_5342 War simply accelerated the processes that were already underway. People tend to go/stay where there are jobs, salaries and higher standards of living.
Ukraine got deindustrialized in the 90s and could not maintain such a large population anymore. Hence, the decline.
Belarus on the contrary kept a relatively large share of its industry inherited from the USSR which effectively made it dependent on the Russia's much larger market. Hence, much smaller outflow of people.
@@georgios_5342 Considering Belarus is a satelite state of Russia and if you check out specifics on demographics one will discover there is much more Russians today than 30 years ago.
So basically natives declined and millions flew regime from Russia to Belarus (lower costs, better food and so on)
Ukraine is the biggest looser of this conflict yet russia ins't in a better position.
Meh... This state is doomed. Also, should keep in mind, that if Ukraine will exist in future, then probably it's former allies, that supplied it with weapons and money, will ask Ukraine to pay all the debts and... This will be additional economic disaster for Ukraine. And economic disaster also leads to problems with demography.
Here in Canada, we've had mass immigration and it's been negative. On top of a decrease in social cohesion and an increase in balkanization, our standard of living has also decreased dramatically.
Not sure what Balkanization stands for, but I think we’re all doing rather well in Balkans currently.
After visiting France for a 9 day tourist trip in February, I must say - any place in Balkans is better than suburbs of Paris…
@@stefanpn Balkanisation is the process involving the fragmentation of an area, country, or region into multiple smaller and hostile units
@@stefanpn Balkanization is the break up of an area or country along ethnic, racial, cultural, and religious lines.
@@ryeguy7941 I see, well, good divorce is better than bad marriage.
@@stefanpn Let's hope it can be that way.
Not to mention that the most production, most plants are located in the east of ukraine, Donbas Harkov, Herson regions, and these are most populated regions. West ukraine has nothing essentially.
Lithuania and Latvia also have horrible demographics, and they can no longer use the excuse of 'Soviets' leaving. In fact joining the EU has been hugely problematic, demographics-wise, for many former Soviet block countries.
Yes. There were more ethnic Latvians living in Latvia in 1897 than in 2024.
As ukrainian, recently i read that our govt need more than 1000000 migrants after the war only to sustain economics. You heard that right, not raising salaries to at least 800-1000 eur/month to bring back ukrainians that is already in western europe, and fix ukraine demograpghy, but rather how to keep current rotten, corrupt system afloat. I'm not sure where they plan to find these immigrants, as current average ukrainian salary is about the same with central asian or middle eastern countries.
Increasing wages is very expensive and can't fix demographics anyway
You can't raise salaries to western European levels without raising productivity to western European levels. Where immigrants would come from? Well, 1 million people isn't that many. You could get 1 million people in the middle east, north africa, Latin America or south asia if you wanted to. A 300-500 usd wage is considered decent in such places.
@@FOLIPE
Ukrainian salaries aren't decent in most of those countries
Also Ukraine is filled with mines and bombs and would require 700 years in order to ckean them up
In most of those countries people don't have to worry about losing a foot because you stepped in the wrong place
@@baha3alshamari152 The east is filled with bombs and what not, but I suppose western ukraine isn't. As for the wages, I am not informed on what is an average wage in Ukraine, but from a quick search online it seems to be in the 400-500 usd range, at which level it should be doable to get workers in the areas I mentioned.
slavic mystery at its finesy
War or no war, this failure of a state was already doomed in 1991. They’ve only had a negative population growth ever since. The population almost halved when they’ve reached the first decade of their "independence". It explains why they’ve had no official census since then. One might wonder how many people were there in 2022, but, using a politically correct wording, it’s extremely unlikely that it was more than they’ve had in 2001.
Demographics in most of Europe are pretty shitty especially in the south. Hell,in Greece people are dying faster than they're being replaced. Same in Italy i think.
And it's about to get worse with the financial repercussions from this war. When you got economies like Germany failing you know shit isn't going well. Not a lot of people are gonna want to bring a kid into this mess.
I think my comment was deleted by CZcams
most of human history was shitttier than this and people still had kids
@@iattacku2773 that's a gross overgenerilisation . Population was advancing for decades in ridiculous speeds. Never before there was such a huge population for the planet to feed. There's limited resources this planet has therefore when resources are stretched they're gonna be more expensive and harder to get and people will afford less.
Not mention society as whole is radically different from what it was even 50 years ago. You can't compare different eras when different rules apply for each.
@@iattacku2773 They had hope for the future
@@GothPaoki More to feed but easier than ever to do so. Stop using "overgeneralisation" as an excuse for your poor life choices aka not wanting children.
That's such a rare case to see no-biased analysis. I live in Ukraine and what you say is quite accurate. You missed only 1 thing - many men will leave Ukraine after the war. They want to do it now, but it's too risky.
Better leave now,before new mobilisation law gets into effect
Even if Ukraine wins, the country's demographics are completely doomed, with extreme difficulty, they may be able to bring back half of the refugees.
That's not nearly enough, since the fall of the USSR, Ukraine has lost nearly a third of its pre 1989 population, the nation risks dying
They just have to implement an aggressive mass immigration policy with incentives.
@@bumponalog7164 They just have to stop fighting and lay down their arms
@@bumponalog7164,массовая иммиграция=убийство этноса.
@@user-tq9kj7nd6zso. If someone, somewhere on the street attack you, than you will just stay on the street and letting the aggressor to beat you up ? Interesting 🤔
@@Mar1an163 No one was going to beat them, there were too few Russian troops, it was a police operation to establish peace in Donbas and stop NATO. It was Ukraine that turned this into a full-scale war on the orders of the West.
Most people think that Ukraine's demographic problems are the fault of Russia and the war, but this is not entirely true, it is the result of Ukraine's policies.
in 1990, Ukraine's GDP was at the level of France, and 50 million people lived in it, while the lands of Ukraine are among the most fertile in the world. This did not stop them from destroying all economic ties in Russia, plundering the remains of Soviet factories and concentrating money in the hands of a few people in Ukraine (oligarchs). Before 2014, I had friends who worked hard physical labor and earned about $100 a month. At the same time, in Russia I received much more than $1000 a month for simple work. And the Russian economy grew every year by 7-10%. In such conditions, the Ukrainian population began to age, and the young population either left or did not give birth, since they did not have the finances to do so. In 2013, during the anti-constitutional military coup in Ukraine, the Ukrainian authorities set a course for the Ukrainization of the population, while it was necessary to understand that Ukraine is not ethnically monoethnic, there are Russians, Crimean Tatars, Hungarians, Moldovans, even Greeks. That is, all these nations were faced with the fact that they were second-class citizens in Ukraine, which of course led to the fact that they began to leave or fight for their independence from the monoethnic project of Ukraine. At the same time, Ukrainians were those who were not essentially Ukrainians, namely the western regions of Ukraine, which Stalin annexed from Poland, Bulgaria and Hungary. Thanks to such incompetent policies, the population of Ukraine even before 2014 had decreased to less than 35 million people, some left, some died of old age, and some simply did not have children due to the economic situation provoked by the policy of oligarchization of the economy. Then Crimea separated from Ukraine, which has always been mainly a Russian region, with a small layer of Crimean Tatars, who were persecuted in every possible way under Ukraine and were not allowed to live, delaying the resolution of housing issues and the legalization of registration of land plots seized in the 1990s, and also their language was not official, this lasted more than 20 years, and the Tatars were oppressed by the Ukrainians, making it clear that they were not welcome in the Ukrainian Crimea. After the separation of Crimea, Russia first legalized the land plots of the Crimean Tatars, and also made the Crimean Tatar language the official language of the Republic of Crimea. Yes, there were dissatisfied people, but it was among those who did not receive power, they formed the opposition to Russia in Crimea, and then went over to the side of Ukraine, although before that they were quite happy with Russian citizenship and were even deputies in Crimea, but such dissatisfied people are less than 1% . Russia as a project for the Crimean Tatars is more promising, since it is not a mono-ethnic state, including many Muslims among Russians, say Chechens or Tatars, Bashkirs, so Russia built a huge mosque in Crimea. So Ukraine lost more than 2 million people out of 35 million people, then the eastern regions of Ukraine, inhabited by ethnic Russians, who were forced to live in the Ukrainian state, tried to secede, because of this, about 4 million more people separated, who are fundamentally not ready to live with Ukrainians in the same state, so how Ukraine bombed the peaceful cities of Donetsk and Lugansk for 8 years, from 2014-2022. Total 35-6 = 29 million. As a result of the war of 2022, Russia attracted another 1 million Russian population in southern Ukraine to its side. And about 5-6 million more left as refugees in the Russian Federation. Total 29-1-5=23 million. and about 3 million more went to the EU. 23-3 = 20 million. About 1 million more Ukrainians died as a result of the thoughtless policy of the Ukrainian authorities, which plugged holes at the front with meat assaults. That is, there are already about 19 million people in Ukraine. Most of whom are pensioners over 60 years old, or women. In reality, at best, there are about 7 million men left in Ukraine, from infants to very old people, 90% of whom will not be able to fight. At the same time, they are opposed by Russia, which has about 150 million people; more than 20 million people live in the city of Moscow alone. That is, the alignment of this war was clearly losing even before the start of the war; Ukraine had no chance of winning, even if NATO had fought for them. At the same time, the Ukrainian government, realizing its crimes and the inevitability of retribution from the Ukrainian population, cannot stop, and continues to send more and more young people without experience to the front so that people do not rebel and overthrow the government and kill it. Even if 90% of the population returns from the EU, then 2.7 million women and children will not be able to restore the Ukrainian economy even after 30 years. After the war, which will last at least another 1-2 years, there will be about 19-20 million people in Ukraine with refugees returned from the EU, of which only about 1 million will be men of reproductive age. Even if they each have 3 children, that's only 23 million in 10 years. But this is a utopia, there will be no economy in Ukraine after the war, even if 300 billion of the Russian Federation’s money is given to Ukraine, 90% will be stolen as they did in 1991-2013, that is, Ukraine needs trillions of dollars for restoration, and interest-free loans and irrevocable investments
Ukraine wants to recruit 500,000 men to fill the ranks of their army. Reducing the age from 27 to 25 will not solve that unless they can recruit every single man of that age group. To maintain the war they need to dig even deeper but the deeper they dig the worse a hole they end up in.
Recognising when you have lost is a virtue.
If you support forced conscription of men to fight in the war, why don’t you support “forced conscription” of women to give birth for the future of the nation? :)
One argument could be as simple as "probability". It's seen as justifiable to send out a whole regiment with 1000 men on a mission where the expected number being killed are 50%. So around 500 of 1000 killed. While at the same time it's seen as immoral to send out a single guy on a mission with a 100% probability of getting killed. So for "forced pregnancy" to work it needs to contain a certain probability of not getting pregnant.
But to a certain extent I do agree with you. If men are expected to risk everything in the defense of society so should women.
This is exactly what I've been saying for months!
Kind of like hentai doujin that i read that every women from high school above have to get pregnant ? ... Thats dark and brutal ...
@@annguyenlehoang7779 you know that sending young men after school to die in the war is even darker? but some people still justify that
@@Alex-kg1xh yeah . both is bad ... Both is bad .
France won WWI, but the massive loss of its young soldiers left France weak for two generations. From the apogee of its power to depopulated in many rural areas (where many had been sent to the war). Ukraine is in an even worse situation than France, even if it achieves a limited victory. Ukraine will be in for a tough time for a generation or two.
when this is all over Ukraine will be a multiracial utopia better than Marseille... truly a glorious fight they are fighting rn.
@@IgorDruzhinin-qo2vj boring russbot 🥱
@@IgorDruzhinin-qo2vjThe US Air Force can help with the logistics of bringing in the new Ukrainians after the war.
Before Napoleonic wars, France was the most populated country in Europe and incontested super power on the continent. After 1815, France's demography had taken a massive hit and NEVER recovered from it, and never again played the first roles in history.
@@IgorDruzhinin-qo2vj I’m sure Azov will love their new found brown brothers and sisters.
I am 23 y.o. living in Ukraine and the only dream I have is to escape from this disgusting prison to never come back
If you are woman then it is easy to do
So what prevent you to do so. ~4-10 thousands $ and do whatever you want. Too much for you?
@@rikothearcher1743without any guarantee that you will actually escape from this concentration camp! There's a big chance that you will be detained by border patrol and lose your money and next thing you know you are a cannon fodder on a frontline!
putinbot
Славяне убивают славян! Нам срочно нужен мир. Нас диктатор с олигарзами посылает, а вас глобалисты! Обычному человеку делить нечего
Мира Вам!
The thing that most people dont understand is that ukraine will lose its independence because of demographics more so than military actions (on its own as it stands at least), Millions of young women have left Ukraine and are unlikely to return.
Same with russia. Russia is doomed. They have wasted so much resources in Ukraine. Many russian male have fled while there birth rate is dogshit. Russia is a dying giant. Much more than USA.
@@schneejacques3502
Countries future depends on females not males
A society can survive losing 80% of its male population but not even 10% of its female population
@@schneejacques3502
Russia doomed?????
You got no idea....Russia doing perfectly fine ✌️
@@robkit6681What’s Russias fertility rate?
@@andrewrogers30671.5 about the same as Eu average (1.53)
Back in the Soviet times, Ukraine had a population about 50 million people, while Uzbekistan - 15 million or so. By 2030, Uzbekistan is projected to reach the 30 million people milestone, while Ukraine will also have 30 million or less, depends on how to count, which territories to consider.
That’s how for the lifetime of just one generation one country may catch up with more than 3x gap, which would seem close to impossible from the first sight.
Ещё удивительнее,что через 30 лет население самого Узбекистана начнёт сокращаться из-за демографического перехода.
From these 52 millions only 37 were ethnic ukrainians; in 2001 there were still 37 millions of ethnic ukrainians living in Ukraine.
@@ayararesara6253We are not in 2001
@@FOLIPE it's the last census. My point is that 52 is highly inflated number that should be forgotten, better to start count from 48
The population of Uzbekistan is 36,799,800 in 2023 with a total fertility rate of 3.45 children per woman
Thank you! I have been saying this from the start. Ukraine already had abysmal demographics, compounded by emigration and then they were hit by a terrible war. The longer this goes on the less chances there are of the nation just surviving, forget winning.
It is, beyond the obvious, why I see this war as such a massive tragedy. And why I was suspicious of Western support for the war. It was clear one two things needed to happen, either Ukraine won quickly, likely necessitating immense Western support and quite likely direct involvement too. Or less favorably Ukraine needed to lose quickly, ideally with a negotiated settlement rather than military defeat.
But what happened? The exact wrong thing. They were given enough support to resist but not enough to win. Exactly as one would do if the goal wasn't to save Ukraine but to bleed Russia. A long drawn out war that will be fought to the last Ukrainian. If you don't know what someone wants, watch what they do.
Unfortunately what I feared has come to pass and I hate everything about this situation. I am not surprised a Czech like you would notice it too. Us Slavs have to stick together eh? ;)
Isn't it true that Ukraine would be doing the exact wrong thing too then? Why are they not realizing it and stopping the bleeding according to you?
@@kikodekliko1209 many reasons, not least of which is that just like people countries can be irrational too. Another factor is that us Slavs are a proud and passionate sort and often fight beyond the point of good sense out of spite. On the other end of the spectrum you will also note people being clobbered all over Ukraine and dragged forcibly into the army. The leadership can act against the will of the general populace. As to why the leadership wants to keep the war going? Maybe they are out of touch, it's easy to send others to fight and die for you. Also consider that Ukraine is a very corrupt country. One that went through a US backed coup at that, I am certain many of their leaders are bought and paid for and may not act in the best interest of the people.
Finally to bring it back to the primary subject of the video, demographic issues take time to manifest and aren't readily apparent in the moment. Say you are in a country that is aging but has not yet reached mass retirement age yet. Things seem fine, you see kids running around not noticing it is much less than there should be. The economy is doing well and things just run normally, what's the big deal? But fast forward a decade or two and suddenly the economy is sluggish, the pension fund is creaking and the whole state apparatus with it and you are faced with the choice of letting your elders starve or inviting foreigners in at mass.
The same in Ukraine, they can't yet tell how fucked they are so they keep going. By the time it is painfully obvious the war will be long over and the damage done. That is why demographic issues are so insidious, they are slow and gentle at first but hard and inevitable in the end. Meaning that the majority is content to ignore them and the farsighted can only play the Cassandra and stew in quiet despair.
@@darthmortus5702I think a lot of Ukrainians are quite apathetic about the war. However, voicing dissent gets you sent straight to the front. Much better to try and sit this out. I suspect many are doing just that, seeing how the government just can't find more men despite there being millions more supposedly.
ř!
@@darthmortus5702Türkler geliyor
No matter how the last days of the war go, given what’s been said in this video, Ukraine has already lost.
I believe it depends on how someone defines "victory".
Ukraine can fix its demographics by mass migration but can they attract immigrants in such high numbers
@@baha3alshamari152You’re saying Ukraine’s future is either Russian or Turkish? I guess the more things change the more they stay the same.
@@tomorrowneverdies567lmao it really doesn’t though. Any “victory” at this point would be pyrrhic in nature.
As a Russian I hope our countries could be a friends again one day.
peace ☮
6:22 According to this chart, Ukraine has lost over 20 million people since the 90s, insane.
Not insane, compared to mentioned Bulgaria, Romania and also what happened with Baltics. All those countries lost more people since 1991 than they did in both world wars combined. I will call a spade a spade: this is a genocide. The one nobody talks about.
yeah, lot of people went west
Here in Germany they are the second biggest immigrant population now. Second only to the turks who have been coming here for the last three decades. Three decades vs not even three years.
It depends on how long the situation at home will go on and how it ends if people decide to return or not.
Most Ukrainians still plan to go home but if their cities get occupied? Will they? Who knows. They are slowly being integrated here tho, the people are merging, it's especially apparent with students and such. But there are also their churches popping up now.
I guess we can only wait and see if it will end like with quite a lot of the yugo refugees who went back or if it will be more of a persian diaspora who will only longingly look back at the lands they once called home while their children begin to wear Lederhosen and Dirndl.
a weak, pathetic economy, bad healthcare, a not very promising future (to say the least) does that
yeah, and 90% of the recent refugees will never return to the Ukraine. I know some of them. They all plan to stay here in western Europe. Kids in school. Well paying jobs. Prosperity. No way they'll go back to a war torn nation full of mines and ruins.
Around 23 mil
If Russia is a country of contrasts, then Ukraine is a country of paradoxes. Ukrainian politicians say they do not want negotiations because it is a war for existence. But the residents of Ukraine are in no hurry to get to the front, they just want to live, no matter in the EU or the EAEU. Politicians who do not rush to the front themselves take the right to speak for the people of Ukraine, who literally do anything to avoid falling into the hands of the military enlistment office. Meanwhile, residents of Melitopol and Mariupol are still experiencing frontline danger, but have the right to leave this territory, including leaving Russia for European countries. (Which in recent months have increasingly promised to start handing over Ukrainian citizens as cannon fodder into the hands of the Ukrainian government)
It never was a war of existence. Russia is not interested in reducing ukrainian population, its interested in once and for all securing Ukraine as either a puppet state or part of Russia, to never again deal with the political issues it causes.
@@MrVlad12340 or Ukraine could be like pre-NATO Finland at the best but their nationalism destroyed them
@@4и1 Russian fascism destroyed them. Russians are genocidal by nature.
@@4и1Russian fascism destroyed them.
@@maarten1115 literally where? Russia has more ethnicities living in them than any other european state, half our government are not ethnic russians.
But Ukrainian only lost 31000 soldiers and millions who fled country will come back ???
U are insane
true A jew would never lie.
@@IgorDruzhinin-qo2vj 🤣🤣
It's 31001 now, the numbers getting crazy
they choose this way. to go in meat grinder. they voted for this. it is called democracy
When Zelensky said to the last Ukranian, he meant it.
@@basilmagnanimous7011
He made sure all his ((fellow Ukrainians)) would escape first as well.
Zelensky never said that. This is russian propaganda and MAGA Karlson bots statement
@@siloton The pro ukraine side also implies this when they say that there should be no negociation with russia
@@sirius6738 if there are basically 2 sides so half the population is on some side, then you can have all sort of statements. But if we take vast majority of Ukrainians that support armed defense, i state this is not their approach. And even such question in poll or survey seems absurd. You would need to define the term first coz its so abstract term that it can mean almost anythink (last plane, last tank, last soldier, last men, last women, last child...)
He takes revenge on the nazis, he's a jew 😂😂😂
'Being an enemy of the US can be dangerous, being an alli can be fatal' - Henry Kissinger
👏🏻
Being Ali?
Allies bro !!@@kikodekliko1209
isn't Kissinger the highly controversial Nobel peace prize winner and semi-warcriminal all at the same time. btw this 'quote' by Kissinger isn't at all documented and is thought to have been said in a phone call to an ex-cia newspaper writer. this quote isn't original too because Kissinger paraphrased this quote from another guy Aleksey Efimovich Vandam in his book Наше положение
here it is, Vandam's original quote after some looking
"Наконец наступает очередь и Китая, который после своих разнообразных опытов с англичанами и американцами смело мог бы сказать теперь - «плохо иметь англосакса врагом, но не дай Бог иметь его другом!»."
in english
"Finally, it is the turn of China, which, after its various experiences with the British and Americans , could safely say now - 'it is bad to have an Anglo-Saxon as an enemy, but God forbid to have him as a friend!'."
to add, this is also post-boxer rebellion China
"Может ли Украина оправится от последствий?"
Нет,не может.В одной временной точке собрались все проблемы за все годы независимости.Как может страна кладбище еще и оправится от войны?Вдумайтесь отсюда убегут моментально все оставшееся мужское население(которое целые: с руками,ногами)как только "военное положение"(лол) закончится.Разве юноша от 16-27+ задумывается о своем будущем здесь??Нет.Украина - это просто страна противоречий.Без понятия кто вообще рисует какие-то соц.опросы и другие графики касающиеся общества и его настроев в Украине и для кого.Тут даже вопрос стоит в том:"А захочет ли мужчина создавать семью?".Война вообще не объединила людей,а наоборот - они стали еще хуже и злее,а тут еще и поднимают вопрос демографии?????Думаю,что даже за деньги мужчина в украине не будет сувать куда-то для чего-то(да и оставлять ребенку будущее с долговыми обязательствами?).К сожалению(или к счастью кому как)у этой войны один конец и он никак не на стороне Украины🙁
Zelensky would rather destroy his country than accept peace.
"His"?
He is a jew. He is actively working to wipe out the native White Ukrainians
So here are my 2 cents. The current situation in Ukraine is the following: low to non-existing birth rates, economic preferences toward migration for women and men who are able to migrate, low amounts of young people, lowered morale compared to the beginning of the war. So in short, we are doing our best with the one of the worst hands dealt. My city is devastated, so there is no economic or emotional interest for me to come back. A lot of friends are no longer here physically, and those that do stay want to leave. It is a terrible tragedy to witness such events unfold before your own very eyes. When people don't want to sell you supplies on the first day of war, like salt or bread. Huge lines of people waiting for humanitarian aid. Artillery in the distance mixed with the sound of aviation at night. I don't know about you, but that really removes the veil from the illusion of stability. I don't know what to make of it still. But there is a sadness and sorrow that is apparent and is not felt by those that have not witnessed/lived it.
We did lived it in 2014.
You must blame the Actor
@tekinfomedi Makyevka, DPR.
Just in 2 years you are crying? This was imposed on Iraqis for 20 years, 10 years before that we had sactions in which even importing pencils was banned as US said that saddam will take graphite from pencils and use in nuclear reactor. Even before that we Iraqis were bombed by us in first Gulf War. Prior to that 10 years we had a war with Iranians in which US sold weapons to both sides. Still most Iraqis live in Iraq and you are crying and leaving your country in just 2 years of war?
@@atherzaidi5871 It's not his fault. Most of the Ukrainian Women were the 1st to leave the country. I live in Western European countries and have observed that all Ukrainian women have partners from Western countries. How man will be motivated to fight war when their own women are sleeping with men from another countries. One of the greatest mistakes was to let women migrate.
I weep for Ukraine. However, it would be wrong for me to not acknowledge that Poland has greatly benefited from the contributions of Ukrainian workers who are currently filling jobs that the Polish economy needs. It is also providing a bit of a boost to the demographics, as the children of the ones who stay will grow up Polish.
Who cares about Ukraine.
I do not weep at all. Ukraine's arrogance and its worship of those who slaughtered Poles has earned them their fate as a Polish-dominated rump state, with their population essentially turning into Poles by way of being assimilated within Poland.
Yeah lets hope those UPA genes dont kick in.
and those women would have alrdy found a western man. who would leave a job, an apartment, a salary and a man and return to ukraine?
Doesn't really matter. Ukraine will survive on the internet every day.
Only on the Internet 😂
@@johnwatson122 cope vatnik
@@user-xi5ej4ox5s pochemu ne v okope, vishivata? Hryukni.
@@user-xi5ej4ox5s it's fact khokhol
@@user-xi5ej4ox5swhat for? Its not my country that is being turned into literal gravel.
AHAHAHAHAHH!!!! SOLID HEALTHCARE!!!!! Im ukrainian who living in Canada for last 2 years. And can say honestly this medicine is a piece of crap compare to ukrainian. When doctor asking you: `What diagnose do you think you have?" and sending you to a blood test 4 times per month its NOT OK. Yes Canada have good doctor specialists. BUT! YOU HAVE TO WAIT IN QEUEU FOR A F MONTH OF MORE!!!! In Ukraine you can visit any specialist in 1st visit in a live queue. Do all blood tests+ultrasound+urine+MRI+X-ray and all other test in SAME DAY without BOOKING A F*****NG APPOINTMENTS. You dont need to wait in queue for monthes for surgery that you needed. And on top of that you can buy like 80% of medicine without prescription
Im waiting when war is end to fix my health and teeth back in Ukraine. Despite the terrible architecture, urban planning standards outdated by 50 years, disgusting medicine and a bubble in real estate prices I love Canada. Here people get paid very well, there is no corruption, adequate police, stability, confidence in the absence of war in the next 50 years and good nature.
Hope your family is alright. Good luck in the future
i think human life is more important than borders. i just don't want people to die anymore
they choose this way. to go in meat grinder. they voted for this. it is called democracy
They are unlikely to understand this. This is a very resentful people in the majority. A significant place in Ukrainian culture is occupied by the concept of "it doesn't matter that your cow is dead, it's bad that the neighbor's is alive."
@@eliotness4029 they voted for quite an opposite. check the election programm of Zelensky. To stop the war by any means, and to negotiate even with devil, if it is needed. But, as usual, election is just a show.
What are you talking about? so stupid take. We voted for different preisdents different times, but nobody have the right to make an unlawfull military intervention.. this war is terrible, like a hell on the earth and nobody cares.. Ukraine - is not ideal, but have a Right for living peacefully. The same about Georgia, Moldova.@@eliotness4029
Some things are worth risking your life over.
Ukraine is indeed destroyed as a country, compared to what it was before. It used to be a sizeable 50-million-inhabitants nation, always somewhat fated to lose 20%-ish of its population at the turn of the century if we compare to the rest of Eastern Europe. Now, however, the country is a "zombie" since while it looks like it has 30 million inhabitants those are in fact mostly elders and the number of births is as low as 200 thousand a year (which gives you an expected population of less than half of 30 million for modern Ukraine's life expectancy). The other demographic aspect of this war is that it is making Ukraine linguistically more homogenous due to Russian speakers being gobbled up by Russia either due to migration or the take over of territory. In the end, it seems to me that Ukraine is becoming (in the words of John Mearsheimer) a rump state, which will be relatively large geographically but with a productive population closer to that of the Netherlands than to that of Poland. And if the war continues and they recruit younger people I can't help but that think it will be even worse. In a position such as theirs, protecting their human resources would seem to me to be the most important aspect of all in this war.
All oblasts of Ukraine have low birthrates, but the Western and predominantly Ukrainian-speaking ones have been having significantly higher birthrates for decades, and this will likely continue. Also, Ukrainianisation as of now has been very successful, with visible results. My city, Dnipro, has turned from like 10% to 30% Ukrainian-speaking in the last four years, and the general prestige and interest in the language has sharply increased among the people who have not switched yet. The future of Dnipro will be either Ukrainian-speaking or, although it hurts me to admit, a Mariupol. Maybe even worse because it is situated on the Dnipro river and will be very well defended and fortified
@@user-gj4wj6ws3g Russia will work to bring Lvov and the surrounding region down to size. They will seize Odessa, landlocking it, and encourage the likes of Hungary and Poland to take their own slices.
The fate of a future Western Ukraine state, rests on how whoever is running it, deals with Russia. If on friendly terms, Russia will tolerate its existence. If not, that State will not last for long in any coherent manner.
@@user-gj4wj6ws3gIndeed, Ukraine has a decent regional imbalance in birth rates (although all bellow 2.1 some were closer to 2 than to 1), which favored the more rural and more Ukranian regions, and probably in each region the Ukranian-speaking population which is also more rural than the Russian speakers. That, coupled with the emigration towards Russia, made the long term trends already point towards slow and steady ukranization of the territory, but with the war this process becomes both faster, more complete, and more traumatic, excepts it's no longer over whe whole of the 1991 borders of Ukraine.
@@user-gj4wj6ws3g In conditions of anti-Russian hysteria, people try to speak Ukrainian so as not to cause aggression or persecution from radical patriots and Ukrainian authorities, based on hostility or suspicion of espionage and sympathy for Russia.
But after the war, the spread of the Ukrainian language will be determined by political and economic factors. If the end of the war is on Russia’s terms, bans on the Russian language, trade and cooperation with Russia are lifted, then the Russian language will be restored in the Dnipro and other eastern regions of Ukraine.
In conditions of anti-Ukrainian hysteria, people try to speak Russian so as not to cause aggression or persecution from radical patriots and Russian authorities, based on hostility or suspicion of espionage and sympathy for Ukraine.
But after the war, the spread of the Russian language will be determined by political and economic factors. If the end of the war is on Ukraine’s terms, bans on the Ukrainian language, trade and cooperation with Ukraine are lifted, then the Ukrainian language will be restored in the Belgorod and other western regions of Russia. @@milaro222
When I read Strauss-Howe generational theory it stated that my generation, the Millennials, would be this cycle's Greatest/GI-generation. At 37, I figured I was too old for the draft, so the whole theory was probably incorrect. But now I realise that, because of the dreadful demographics of most countries, it *will* be us that's sent to die in the coming war, and not the younger generations like Z and Alpha. They will need to be protected to ensure that any given country actually has a future at all.
Unfortunately, those new generations dont see a value in their culture; they have spent their entire lives being indoctrinated in the woke ideology; they on their own do not have the desire to maintain their countries and cultures.
Except oligarchy wants to decrease population in most countries
I wonder if the theory actually predicted this mechanism occuring.
@@ImperativeGames not this nonsense again... 🙄
why would they want that?
They want to increase population to lower wages@@876xboss_albanerx64
No amount of western equipment could save a drowning man.
Western military aid is investment mainly for their own domestic economy, not to save Ukraine.
No, but a full scale military intervention might. Remember, in order for the USA to get all the money and equipment back they loaned Ukraine, they might have to go the war, like they have done before. When Russia wins the war and Ukraine stops existing, it is bye bye investment. The USA has gone to war for that exact reason in the past.
@@mezjean5966if they go to war with Russia it will be a nuclear war, and nobody will live to see the victory.
US companies want Ukrainean land, but not the people living on it.
Black earth is among the best soil in the entire world. So Black Rock and others have already buyed a huge part of Ukraine.
The more Ukraineans disappear by civil war, war, epedemics, alcohol, demographic decline and migration, the easier it becomes to grab more land.
Yes, companies want to destroy dirt cheap labor. Sure. Maybe activate more brain cells.
@@4mb127 Even cheaper labor can be imported.
@@j.k.1239 Which is worthless when imported labor is low skill meanwhile a former Soviet republic at least had Soviet higher education in place before the 90s.
@amlightspeedy3090No it’s not, it’s in most of Ukraine, even in Romania, small parts of Hungary , Poland,Austria and Germany.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD You are very, very optimistic regarding average Ukrainian capabilities.
Excellent and well-researched information. Overall, the tragedy of Ukraine happened when the government are far detached from the reality of the country they presumably lead.
I'm Ukrainian and im glad you made this video, thank you
Eu can send muslim refugees and asylum seekers to ukraine after war and force them to marry with ukranian women and bounce back demographic collapse. Muslim men can make 5 to 10 babies so ukraine does not need to worry. Ukraine has huge land and can sustain almost 50 million refugees and asylum seekers. Eu can provide benefits to people who settle in ukraine. Ukraine will have lots of houses left and they can be housed.👍👍👍
it will bw setteled by nyc jews to restore khazaria@@gireeshan-bd6hi
@@gireeshan-bd6hi Well, someone will have to build those houses, bc the current destruction of cities doesn't boost the housing capacity. + men can't have babies ;) + I doubt our *women* would agree to a forceful marriage. Moreover, your dystopian society project that views people as some sort of cattle, doesn't require immigration. The need for men is minimal then. You require women. And many of them left the country for now.
Who allowed bro to cook 💀
@gireeshan-bd6hi you're delusional if you genuinly think that would be a legitimate idea of the EU
In 1990, population ratio of Russia and Ukraine was 3:1 (150m:53m)
After victory, Russia will annex the former southern and eastern Ukraine.
New ratio of the population of Russia and Ukraine will be 10:1
(RUS 160m: UKR 15m).
Ukraine will never be able to threaten Russia again.
Ukraine threat isn't about its population but its location
Judging by these comments, Russia has plenty of old losers with nothing better to do than comment on CZcams, lol.
@@4mb127they mostly are paid for this
@@comelfon These aren't israelis who are paid by Israel to post propaganda. Russia is not rich enough for that
No, it can't. Not without reuniting with Russia.
Russia is demographic issues as well, they’re both f-ed
Zelenskyy’s foreign policy destroyed Ukraine. Never again elect a comedian as president, the nation becomes a joke.
How easy it is to blame Ukraine! It immediately removes any moral need to help and dismisses difficult questions outright. Its like having a sister who was raped by a rich, powerful man but instead of fighting the man, you blame your sister. The man is scary and any legal/physical fight will be dangerous for you personally. Yet the need to fight "disappears" if your sister is wrong! Just tell her (and yourself) that she should not have worn that dress and voila! Problem solved.
@@av199 If I could help anyone I'd help Russia.
@@av199Ukraine is definitely not my sister. If my sister is an SS, I don't care what happens to her.
@@fungames24 like I thought, the "dont wear that dress argument" (i.e. cowardice and appeasement) won out. Even your boy Tucker Carlson admitted the Nazis narrative is bullshit. But don't you worry, you can still bring up biolabs, bad-faith concern for Ukrainian lives, false dichotomy between the border and foreign aid, resale of supplied military equipment, and lots of other bullshit arguments.
@@fungames24 yo man, I'm 17 y.o ukrainian and you know what? For my whole life in Ukraine I never saw any nazis any nationalist things you believe we have.
Bruh..
Whatifalthist is correct. The demographics of the Ukrainian war and other approaching wars look like and will look like the Thirty Years War. Limited manpower availability, wars both civil-domestic and foreign simultaneously. An environment where the fighting man is at a premium and can make excessive demands, whereas the conflicts themselves are dragged out.
Well, Civil Government in Ukraine holds for now.
@@janpol466
Yeah, thanks to the US taxpayer lol. 33 trillion and rising. It can't go on forever.
He’s insufferable and half of what you said makes little sense especially fighting men being at a premium and making excessive demands? My guy, Ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and sent to the front to be mowed down. The last sentence I agree with though, choose better minds he’s an absolute tool.
"Whatifalthist is correct" only a truly insane person would state that
@@sullathehutt7720 Thanks to him american economy still exists, lol.
Moral of the story: 1) Don`t start the war, when you already suffer from demographic problems. 2) Don`t sell your country to americans, it`s never ended well.
Ukraine will not stop until they are lowered to 5 million people, that's my prediction, then simple lack of means will force them to stop.
they started the war? how?
@@BoSinnfan54 by bombing own people since 2014 and continuing today, ignoring all ceasefire agreements.
@@TheStulnoga
>bombing own people
proof?
>ceasefire agreements
with an entity of foreign creation (Igor Girkin&the Russian intelligence) that violated them daily since they were signed
also don't forget the Russian """humanitarian""" aid of T-72B3s and Buks in 2014&15
@@TheStulnoga
>bombing own people
proof?
>ceasefire agreements
that those false entities created by Russian intelligence themselves ("новоСоссия") violated since the day there were signed?
It's ironic that Ukraine's demographics were in their most prosperous state during the Soviet period, when they were supposedly 'under oppression'. However now, anything associated with the Soviet period is demolished and erased.
This is a unique point in time, where a country actively cannibalizes its own history and cultural identity in order to manufacture a synthetic version of what they are 'supposed to be'.
Truly, a frightening cautionary tale for anyone determined to follow in their footsteps.
You act as if the history manufactured during SSSR wasnt synthetic.....
@@MrJigssaw1989 The USSR didn't have to manufacture Ukrainian history because there was nothing to manufacture lmao
@@AnnoNymusyep, confirmed moron.
Have you heard of the Holodomor? It's not "supposedly", they were oppressed and you should be ashamed of yourself for denying it.
soviets didnt allow immigration, but when independence happened, immigration was suddenly allowed and thus massive waves occurred. are you stupid?
Insignificant numbers of refugees ever return home after moving westward. 200 thoussnd Ukrainian refugee in Canada and .almost none will return and, in contrast, family members will join then both during snd after the conflict.in addition, 65 thousand of these are military aged males who tend to be better educated and skills in demand.
Zelensky is to be blamed for
I have no patience to watch thus click bait but the more important question is whether there would be a country called Ukraine. It is unlikely
I do hope that upcoming Russian government will try something to repopulate Ukraine lands. It's a beautiful place with a lot of beautiful landscapes.
Agree.
same what Brazilian did to Paraguay after it killed 1/3rd of its population in a bloody war it waged on for many years..the Brazilians armies settled there ended up having three to five wives at some cases cause a lot of males in Paraguay ended up killed in war no one else would impegrenate those local Paraguayan womens...
kinda creepy but. its a history
it's economical protentional was PHENOMENAL, that's why USSR spend trillions to invest in industry here... Now all is dust.
We (Ukrainians and Russians) had a saying: “Forgive us Yuri (Gagarin, first human in space), we fucked everything up!”. I peer into his smile and barely hold back my tears.
@@Ddarth_sidiousstill Ukrainians are much dumber than Russians. Belorussians are smart.
few years ago me and my friend(both ukrainians) joked that this land is cursed, this land so fertile because of how many blood was spilled on it during it's history. With every month i understand that we were fucking right, unfortunately. Don't repeat our mistakes.
I am Ukrainian but both in Serbia, never visited Ukraine. However, my grandmother watched her father (grand-grandfather) kidnapped in front of her to fight in some war. Sounds familiar? He never received a funeral, his body was never found, just dead out there somewhere. What a cursed land...my ancestors were right to move, and I am right to move from Serbia too if I can.
чому не в окопе
@@limitess9539 In past centuries, this happened everywhere and in every warring country. Mobilization meant that all the men were taken by force. And they beat and so on. We must not forget history. In the 20th century, essentially in the age of dictatorships, this was the absolute norm, it’s just that now such a war seems unrealistic according to the thinking of the 21st century (democratic thinking)
@@thehawk8486 I know, that's why we have to try to change the system. Slavery was legal in the ancient world, women couldn't get schooled,work and other things. Do such things still exist? Yes, women in Afghanistan, I guess some people are de facto slaves. But most aren't anymore. Things change, and changes are needed in this area, for us guys, but also for everyone in general. A system change.
@@limitess9539Since you’re ethically ukraine due to ancestral origins. Do you consider yourself a serb? How do you feel about serbs supporting Russia against Ukraine?
What a horrible future...they say they fight to join NATO so their kids wont have to fight...but what kids will there be in ukraine? Was it worth it?
They’re fighting to join NATO so their kids won’t have to fight…. In a war against an enemy, who is fighting so that they won’t join NATO, and the Russian kids won’t have to fight them in the future.
If NATO wasn’t trying to bring Ukraine in as a forward base of operations for their eventual move on Moscow, none of this would’ve happened in the first place.
WE FIGHT TO NOT BE ENSLAVED AND GENOCIDED BY RUSSIA!
@@user-xi5ej4ox5s and Russia is fighting so you don’t let NATO set up with missiles pointing at their capital. It appears you’ve reached an impasse.
@@user-xi5ej4ox5s Go to the Frontline coward!
@@user-xi5ej4ox5s bot, people who fight can't write comments from the trenches
Ukraine demographics is really facing a four sided issue
1) not enough birth rate
2) high death rate from alcholism and unhealthy diet
3) high casualities from the war, espeically the reproductive age people
4) rampant corruption and poor economic outlook, so mass migration out of ukraine.
so they're already rapidly declining, with the war leading a terminal blow.
My friends in Ukraine have a joke that it will soon become a country of brides. Men there are now considered exclusively as cannon fodder for the front, and we must not forget that this fact greatly affects their mortality rate.
they choose this way. to go in meat grinder. they voted for this. it is called democracy
@@eliotness4029 the hell you just wrote.....
There will be more young Ukrainian women for us... ;)
@@eliotness4029 what chose, ukraine is not a democracy, it's all rigged in advance, those "elections" and what not
@@Bender3712 she isn't in the mood after he brother has his legs blown off and wears adult diapers in a wheelchair, and after her father gets his eyes harmed by shrapnel from an artillery shell and becomes blind, so keep your tongue to yourself
I mean Ukraine only lost 31k men so far according to Zelenskyy
Ukraine is already conquering the Siberia according to media
'It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.' - Henry Kissinger -
Zelensky said that he'll use mass immigration to replace all the lost people and make Ukraine the most multicultural country in the world. So if Ukraine somehow manages to stay a country, expect millions of Africans to arrive shortly.
He never said that. That was debunked a year ago.
@@Nordbon1523he didnt say they had it as an option after the war
@@Nordbon1523 If Zelensky does not surrender, that is the countries only hope in even having half the population they had before the war. Its completely over for the Ukrainian race.
@@Nordbon1523 Whether he said it or not it seems probable.
@@Hereford1642Why?
Donbas has 4 million people currently under Russian control plus two other regions Zaporozhye and Herson and another 2.5 million refugees in Russia in addition to those 6-8 million in the EU, plus there are refugees in other countries which would make Ukraine probably closer to 20 million people. Plus if we take into account hundreds of thousands of dead and many more wounded you get a horrifying future because war is not finished yet and even decades after the war young people will be leaving to the better places. Short term predictions are impossible to make and not that significant, what is significant is the future projections, when a generational turn around happens in some 70 years. Then I expect Ukraine to be something in the range of 8 - 16 million people.
Ukraine has a large ethnic Russian population that largely stayed in Ukraine after the break up of the Soviet Union out of convenience and economic necessity. now? Russia would welcome them with open arms and the grass looks way greener on that side of the fence.
I am glad that Russia will take over their old areas. It should have been taken care of in the 90's but Gorbachev was a traitor.
@@frostflower5555 hey, I don’t have a dog in this fight, I can understand why Russia wants access to Crimea, I can also understand that Crimea was never a part of Ukraine prior to Khrushchev gifting it to Ukraine for political reasons and I can understand why Russia wants it back……. But as far as I’m concerned, the rest of Ukraine can stay its own country as long as they don’t cause trouble for the whole planet by trying to invite NATO to set up in Russia’s backyard and cause World War III.
I just want a solution to this that doesn’t get people killed, and I prefer that I don’t end up on that list of people who glow in the dark, because NATO can’t keep its hands to itself, and keeps trying to take over all of eastern Europe
@@Matt-yg8ubI mean, 1/4 of them (3 millions) already emigrated during the 90s, that's huge.
@@ayararesara6253 if 9 million people packed up right now and left, you might as well just start writing the eulogy
It is not fertility what is important but quality of population. Poland can import 20-30mln Ukrainians and Poland soon will become a minority in its own country.
wait its legal to say this now ? I remember snowflakes and wester media bashing people like me for talking about this 2 years ago. Funny how this always go.
20:47
Hard times create strong slavs
Strong slavs create hard times...
No good times 😅
In the end there would be a handful of Slavs with a demigod strength creating a world ending crisis. 😅
@@mastersafari5349Russia has nuclear arsenal *cought*
We born, we struggle a bit, then we die.
hard times create slavic migrants, slavic migrants produce money inflow creating good times and low unemployment, creating weak slavs bad times and more slavic migrants... with migrations local IQ falls...
Ukraine is a diplomatic tragedy
Ukraine itself is one big tragedy
its more like comedy
I think Ukraine was deceived by the USA and NATO. Zelensky played into the hands of the West without careful thinking. Sadly, Ukraine is in ruins.
You mean the lead up to the war, yeah?
Absolutely!! The diplomacy leading up to the invasion was a disgusting failure. It really nauseates me to hear the mantra "unprovoked. unprovoked. Unpro..."
Diplomatically, Europe, the UK, USA and Ukraine could not have been any more provocative.
The war could have been so easily avoided. Zelenskyy's legacy. The man who flushed the poorest country in Europe down the toilet of history.