The Dual won....
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2019
- I tried - it just didn't end well!
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The intermittent sound problem source is most likely the contact pins on the cartridge sled.
These pins do accumulate oxidation which must be cleaned off periodically.
The sled is removed by pushing the thumblift backward. Make sure to support the cart as you do this. Pull the sled gently downward, then away from the arm. The arm rest clip should be in the locked position.
A bit of contact cleaner, a little emery paper, and done.
Reverse procedure to install cartridge/sled assembly.
I have two of these, and have learned the hard way.
It doesn't matter that the counterbalance has no numerical markings. You use it for zero balance only anyhow. So you rotate it until your arm is perfectly level. The tracking force is set with the dial inside of the gimbal. THAT's where the numbers are.
Yes that is for the stacking spindle aw3. But the shaft has come undone. The motor is ac not dc. The sound issue comes usually from the muting switch. The counterbalance haș no markings because on the arm there is also a spring with numerical markings, that sets the vtf. The single multi is for the height when listening to multiple records(changer mode). Any questions ask me as I restore them
Yes, The numbers on the gimbal set the stylus weight (force) VTF. The VTA is only set by the single or multi vertical tracking angle. The counterweight is only to balance the arm and stylus and then adjust the force in grams on the gimbal.
Odd...
@@Recordology it's called a dynamically balanced tonearm, as opposed to most other turntables which have a statically balanced tonearm
I had a 1219 as a kid with Shure cart, Dynaco tuner, Dynaco SCA-80 integrated amp and Dynaco A25 + A35 speakers. It was THE sh*t back in the day. The 1219 was (is) a record changer. It originally came with one spindle for using it as a manual/semiauto/auto TT and a tall spindle that held a stack of ~6 records above the platter, making it a changer. You're missing that tall changer spindle. Find that tall changer spindle and you'll find that you have a full-featured record changer in the 1219. Love this video, thanks!
The floating spring assembly that you were showing at around the 10:24 point is actually so you can tighten the spring down from the top to lock the turntable assembly down for shipping or transporting. That is what the screws on top were for. Then you would unscrew them to allow full movement when it was installed wherever you placed it.
Aaaah thanks for the tip!
@@Recordology I don't know about the cabinet that you were working with, but on mine, once those springs are completely loose I can swing them out of the slots and lift the turntable assembly upward and out of the cabinet.
These turntables shipped new with the platter detached. The platter weighs like 5 pounds and if it is shipped with the platter attached, the damage is very hard to repair. I have 2 1219s with damaged main supports, but I came up with a fix, by tapping the bridge, and driving a threaded pin into the bridge to lock main shaft into the proper position. These can be restored to near perfect condition. The other weak spot is the oxidation of the connector in the headshell, It's easily fixed with 2000 grit sandpaper folded into a matchstick to polish the contacts.
Even 2000 grit paper is too abrasive on the thin silver plating.. Use a pencil eraser, the pink rubber type, as found on the end of a pencil, preferably a new one so the rubber is fresh, and it will gently remove tarnish without abrading the plating. I use an eraser pencil: a pencil with an eraser core in place of the lead, which can be sharpened just like a pencil, giving a fine tip for hard to reach places. These can still be found at art stores. Stationery stores don't even know what they are. How times have changed.
P.S.: Do NOT use an ink eraser; it is too abrasive for this purpose.
On these 60-year-old 'tables the silver plating on contacts often is so heavily tarnished it looks like a coat of black paint ! Silver is a better conductor than gold, but only when it is bright and shiny. Silver plate oxides quickly, which soon diminishes its conductivity.
The stereo systems of the 60s that my father had came with the Dual turntable. They were all great pieces of work.
have you tried removing the cartridge and clean the contacts on the headshell the finger lift rotates to remove the cartridge mount
Great idea thank you!
yep, check those headshell contacts...I've seen the same issue on later vintage Dual turntables-those contacts need cleaning with a good contact cleaner-also check the connections on the back of the actual cartridge-they can oxidise too.
Beat me to it! Yep... just push the finger lift toward the back of the headshell area and the cartridge should come off/drop-off, mounted in a 'sled'. make sure the wires on the back of the sled are all connected correctly, and that the contacts INSIDE the headshell are clean, and also those on the sled itself. Dual, Garrard, and BSR used to use those cartridge sleds back in the late 60's/early 70's to allow for "easy cartridge changing", but the very nature of them, always made them a weak contact area......
Absolutely. The spring contact can get corroded. A small amount of crc or wd40 or alcohol on cotton bud should suffice.
That was a major issue with these and upper-end Garrards of the day. We used to clean them and re-insert them with some "Blue Stuff" on them and they never gave trouble again. Sadly, Blue Stuff is but a memory today but one of the Caig products may do.
The center nub reveals a added center spindle. This peticular model came with a record stackerspinle to accommodates users desirering that function. That larger spindle was usually lost , due to a focus on record care.
It is the mutting switch! Because the small rods that ride on the yellow plastic gear get oxidized and corroded. Clean them very well and all will be in working order
I have a 1019 and like you state......it's like a fine clock. Love it!
I had bought a Dual 1214 brand new in around 1974 and it came with a Shure M75 cartridge. A few years later I bought a 510 belt drive, it came with a Shure M91-ED.
Awesome
If you should get a Dual for fixing up another time, there's loads of video'es here on YT that shows step by step how to clean, lubricate, and repair them (links below). It's actually really easy. I bet the missing channel can be fixed in a minute either by cleaning the contact points in the headshell, or the mute-switch inside. That also takes care of hum, if that occurs (at least on models with 4 pole motors).
ONE THING WORTH NOTICING; Not all Dual's use the same motor as the one in the 1219, which is a 4 poled motor that can be recognised by it's round shape. Others use a two pole motor which has a square shape. The two pole motor creates a massive electromagnetic field around it, which actually magnetizes the whole plinth, and this results in hum you can't get rid off (Try removing the powerplug from the wallsocket, and notice the hum will get even worse). If you get one of those, you might as well just give up from the start, 'cause no matter what you try, it wont help. I had a 1225 which I ended up changing the tonearm on, bypassing the mute-switch, build in a pre-amp, I even connected it to a groundspear in the garden, and all other sorts of crazy stuff, just to try to make it stop humming somehow (before I realized what the problem was). It didn't help one bit.
My advise to all who reads this; Stay away from models with two pole motors. Go for 4 poled, but then you also have one of the most awesome turntables out there. 1019 - 1219 - 1229 have 4 pole motors (and are divibe turntables - I'm being serious here; If God is into vinyl, you'll find one of these in his set up). Perhaps more models have 4 poled, but these three have for sure.
Here's just a few examples of videoes on how to fix and clean Duals (as mentioned there's many more).
czcams.com/video/siKbGXS7ijM/video.html
czcams.com/video/sZYvb5RelUo/video.html (Notice; Two poled).
czcams.com/video/iNWxnGyBm60/video.html
Stay awesome mate.
Interesting - thank you.
Yeah!
Great memories. My first approach to real Hi-Fi (circa 1977) was a DUAL turntable. I upggraded soon to a more refined model of the same brand. My carts were Shure and Ortophon.
But in the early 80's I moved forever to digital, and I stay on it happy and without regrets for misunderstood nostalgia.
Interesting - 'misunderstood nostalgia' I agree. Thank you for commenting!
Beautiful machine. It`s like watching a masterpiece at the Louvre museum
The contacts at the back of the cartridge sled can become tarnished and a quick rub with a pencil will fix it up
Really interesting video....A lot of effort you put into this turntable....At least there is sound from one channel...for a thing of such age,and the mechanisms are working....Enjoyed the vid...Cheers Ade
Thank you!
I have a Dual 1224 turntable myself and it works fantastic. I also bought an Audio Technica LP60X which is a good modern beginners turntable but the Dual is my main turntable. The old vintage Duals are like a clock and they just do not make turntables like the old Duals.
Old audiophile here, I only have DUAL tables. I have CS 5000, 701 and 1257. I might suggest the cables on the cartridge. They are extremely fine, and often phase out one channel. Especially with a Grado upgrade. I have Shure V5's on all my tables, and had the same problem. All Dual tables, (higher end) came with Shure. Never Grado. Grado's were recommended to me on mine back in the late 70's, but I kept with the Shure cart.
My Dads 1215S did in 1971. I still have is table. The Grado FC needle destroyed by a neighbor in 1976. Replaced with a Shure. 5 years ago I found a new old stock stylus for the Grado. Now table and cartridge are back together again. It sounds terrific. My other Duals including a 1229 have either Grado or shure on them.
I've had a Dual CS 5000, great turntable and the best looking one of the Dual catalogue imo. Switched to an Akai 307 (also a great tt) and now rocking a Technics SL 1210 MK2 👌
One of the reasons that the motor is so big is that the motors on idler wheel turntables run off the full 120 volt AC line as opposed as the low voltage DC motors that most belt drive turntables use. Record changer needed to have a motor that had a lot of torque to drive the charger mechanism.
Interesting thank you!
In this part of the world they are known as rim drive turntables, not idler whatever.@@Recordology
@@850mk3 I'd not get too hung up on the terminology of this technology as it seems in my experience, which is over decades is that both are used interchangeably by most people to mean the same thing. Rim Drive, Idler wheel, either are fine by me as I know what's being talked about.
There's probably a special cartridge to headshell adapter, just like the Dual 1019. There are connection points in those. You can test from the underside of the headshell to the underside RCA jack with ohm meter (just like a cable). You can also check the actual phono cartridge coils to verify left and right is "working" with an ohm meter (Left to left ground; right to right ground). The wires connected to the rca jacks are THIN! Deoxit cleaner is good for contact points.
Your issue is probably not a “short”. If one channel is intermittently cutting out, you likely have an intermittent “open circuit”. It’s just the opposite of a short. If you find a bare spot in the signal path which is touching metal with a path to ground, that would be an example of a “short to ground”. The term ”short” should not be used as a catch all term for electrical problems.
The muting circuit consists of a switch near the RCA connectors that may have been oxidized and the cause of one channel cutting out. Just playing it a few times may have cleared up the connection but some contact cleaner would have most likely fixed it.
I just rebuilt a Dual 1015 recently.
I had an issue with audio on mine. My issue was the muting switch Dual have installed that works to mute the cartridge during certain parts of the automatic operation. I can't remember if the switch shorted the channels or disconnected them, but that switch was definitely a sticking point with me. Pity the idlers are getting so hard to get now (writing this in 2022).
Basic probably isn't a term I would use for these though. The mechanics are quite sophisticated to allow all the automation without electronics.
These days the Dual name is owned by a holding company, like a lot of the old names that were worth something are, so the name could be thrown onto almost anything now.
Agree with icpizzaboy below. Bought my 1219 new in '71 (I was a junior in high school.) Most of my problems throughout the years (missing signal, hum from a bad ground) came from the fragile contacts in the headshell. Easy to access to clean but be very carefull. I use an emery board & very little pressure on all contacts. Sometimes just removing the headshell then reinstalling will do the trick. This line of turntables (the 10xx & 12xx) is very reliable with periodic maintaince & will last forever. Glad to see you showing this TT, I don't think much of the current crop of new tables, they just won't hold up IMHO.
B/TW Dual's in my area (upstate NY) came with either Sure or Pickering cartridges. Currently running an M91E myself.
I also have a 1219 I bought new in 1970. Still works great, although I think the multi record mechanism is not good. I only use it in single mode anyway.
Good info thank you.
Back in the day, away at college (early - mid 70s) wished for a system - and the DUAL, Thorens, or some of the Pioneer's turntables some of the guys had.
"I fought the Dual and the---Dual won..." 🤠. I bought a 1229 for $5 at an estate sale that is in the same cabinet/base.
I had a 1209 bought new at a PX on Okinawa in the late 60's. Your's appears to be a GI imported version too. The cabinet was a very common type. The cabinet makers had luan plywood inserts specific for individual turntables. It's interesting now that people think that idler wheel turntables are good. At the time, they were considered old tech that suffered from rumble vs direct drive and belt drive turntables.
For those of you with an excellent old Dual, except for having a crapped-out head shell sled (which are annoyingly difficult to repair), please note there are a few decent aftermarket sleds available.
I got one from Best Audio (no affiliation), and while expensive for what it is, it saved my 1218 from being useless to being an excellent music maker.
Every vintage German made turntable is elite engineering and a work of art
Dual turntable repair isn’t for everyone. Start and stop are done by the machine only. If you try to flip the start and stop lever playing with it, you will break it! And this is the reason that a seized up Dual that needs a complete overhaul is $500 on flea bay.
You DO know that there are such things as Owner's Manuals and Service Manuals for these things, I hope.
Reading them can be most helpful, and when that doesn't quite do the trick,
there are Other People Who Know Enough and will advise you.
Anyone who jumps into working on ANY turntable without having a clue deserves to lose the battle.
Kind of a rude comment….I did use the service manual to fix it.
We’re going to be testing continuity (13:50) not resistance. Just keeping you on your toes.
This turntable is kind of similar to the Garrard Synchro-Lab 95B that my dad purchased in about 1968. I currently have the table and am slowly attempting to restore it to a fully functional state. It's got a similar suspension system on the plinth and is a fully automatic idler drive machine.
did you get it running. they are amazing musical record players with the lovely wooden arm
These mounts to allow the top plate to move freely are the savety screws on the top of the turntable it self and you unscrew them lift them a little and screw them hand tight so the Sub Chassi wont move while packaging. Also someone replaced the Original Tonarm Cables from the german DIN (Deutsche Industrie Norm) to RCA what in my opinion isn´t a good thing but ok. im Also hapy with my two Dual CS 714 and 731 Q´s wich are what i heard the best from Dual. Good luck with yours. :D Greetings from Germany
Hey thank you for watching and commenting!
That thing in spindle is for the drop christmas tree spindle. On tone arm, dial wait to zero. Then use the back weight adjust tone arm too float with out hitting platter, dial the adjuster on tone arm to set exact weight that you want, the piece has number.Then clean and tighten carrier wires. I have 1229, 1216,1215s,1225,1226, 1218. I know adjustments. Beautiful sound. Other thing with grado try not to have near heavy magnet items, like speakers, as could hang-up cartridge to give hum.
Interesting.
At 10:30... Those are table lockdown screws, not for isolation.
The muting circuit consists of a switch near the RCA connectors that may have been oxidized and the cause of one channel cutting out. Just playing it a few times may have cleared up the connection but some contact cleaner would have most likely fixed it.
That motor is an AC motor. Dual pretty much took a fan motor and slapped inside a turntable. Torque should not be an issue with this turntable.
Can you provide more information on the piece you reinstalled under the yellow gear. My start selector is also locking up and I did narrow it down to something under there but have yet to take it all apart. These are such finicky things.
I enjoyed this clip of Dual Turntable.
Hey! I used to play with this turntable since I was very young, so I know it inside out :) What you did at some point during the video (clicking play button before the turntable was actually on + trying to bring it back to middle position) is the first no no no I learned when I was maybe 7 :D The lever would only get back to centre idle position on its on, after start or stop action is input...p.s: is that beep I can hear through the video a fire detector, telling you it's time to change its battery? 🤭
That would be my bird who has learned to mimic a fire detector with a dead battery.....its really nice 24x7! lol
Those RCA cables are not the originals as they were a thin grey hard-wired (captive) cable. Along with this, it looks like someone has installed RCA jacks instead of the captive cable. This is no bad thing as it allows the cable to be changed quickly.
The 1218 I bought new in early '70s have the RCA jacks that were installed by the factory. The only thin grey wire is the ground wire.
You mentioned in your video that the counterbalance has no numerical numbers. It's not supposed to. It's only used to balance the tonearm to zero or floating neither up or down. At this point you simply dial in the gram force that the cartridge/ needle recommends.
I've got a bit of a whirring sound on my 1229q. I'd like to know how to figure out how to oil it, and do general maintenance.
I also have a 1019.
Hey Record ology-. I dug up a Longins symphonette 3 record box set from the 70s. Right on the sleeves it says for mono records a stylus weight of 10 grams is ideal. For the stereo LP, 5 grams is ideal. So the Victrola and Crosley players are not off base on weight.
The 1229 is the best turntable I ever used. I especially loved that it muted during the automatic cycle! Peace.
The muting circuit consists of a switch near the RCA connectors that may have been oxidized and the cause of one channel cutting out. Just playing it a few times may have cleared up the connection but some contact cleaner would have most likely fixed it.
It is not a Super High End pice of kit as stated. It is a workhorse. Plus : Idlerwheel`s create quite a bit of rumble. It is entrylevel as it was back in the day, Used to have one fitted with a shure cartridge. Liked it a lot.....
It's all so relative.....I have had people call this high, mid, and low end lol......
Hardly "entrylevel". I have a 1218 I bought new in the early '70s and it was well above the entry models of the time - above in price and vastly above in quality. You are correct that it was not "super high end", but it was definitely "high end" and not a toy. If you were interested in playing records through a high quality sound system rather than collecting the most expensive toys you could find, the Duals of the time were among the best choices available.
Note: for some reason I am signed in under my wife's name. My name should show up as "Butch Hayes" on the comment.
Alta gama eran , si se pone a fijarse ppr dar un ejemplo conbinados grundig hifi venian con tocadiscos dual 1009 , 1210, 1211,creo que son muy buenos
So...you fought the Dual and the Dual won.....
I have 3, 1015, 1019, and 1215 and Love all of them!
Do they all have a 9Lb platter that would break every bone in your foot should you drop it on one? I still have a 1019 myself.
nooooo way! I had almost this exact same record player in 2017! It was a 1019 though and it was the first pro record player I ever restored and owned!
Record ology your friend vintage Record player from 1969 is awesome my friend 😅😅😊😅😊
Record ology your utube videos are awesome my friend 😅😅😊
Not like it matters a lot but this was made between 1970-72 not 60s. 60s models were 1009 for example, this is kinda last and best hi end idler drive designs that hit the market, soon belt drive and direct drive took a lead in hi end for lower rumble abd better torque.
I am running a 1972 pioneer turntable, and it works like new
Love old Dual turntable
In Europe mine has with a shure M91ED cartridge and the vinyl size adjustment controls are in centimeters.
Grado cartridges and headphones are made in Brooklyn,NY
It is the head shell it gets corroded with time
Yeah as other have said, check the headshell for the bad connection.
Vor meinem WEGA hatte ich kurz noch den DUAL 1210 meines Vaters, ca. 1968. :-)
Record ology the vintage Record players from the 1969 are built good my friend 😅😅😊
I love my gec turntable very much.but a dual.....I take my hat off to you mr R
I love that dual turntable.. I guess I'm going to look for it, just have seen the comments on how to change the stylus or headshell and I feel better now thank you all for advices!!!!
how can i rectify the speed of a AT LP60?
Help!
My 1019 has slow sleep and I have lubed it. It all looks great and all works except the speed. I already tried to adjust the spindle height but I can’t anymore or else it hits the platter. Please help.
I don't know what slow sleep is..but,If the platter isn't getting up to speed,You should check out the idler wheel under the platter,It is the black rubber disc that makes contact with the platter and motor.ifvit gets oil on it or is worn out you platter isn't going to work properly..
I have a Philips 212 electronic with a tonearm that I designed myself. It will be buried with me.❤😄
Interesting. Does it switch off at the end of a record? The standard arm is good on these, I have one. I modified the motor servo to reduce drift, you add a 1uF cap across the servo bridge rectifier output and readjust the coarse speed presets to speed it up again.
You checked the neutral but not the signal wire . The the head s hell leads need cleaning
I have one of the modern Duals. A CS-460 full auto. They are still made in Germany. It has been an excellent turntable. It is much lighter built than this, but most things are these days. The new Thorens full autos are also made by Dual.
yamajammer76 I’m thinking about getting one of the new duals,, full auto of coarse... my question is ., do they have the ability to repeat a record over and over? Also can a stacking spindle be added? I have a 1214... but it doesn’t repeat a single record,,
It's an old video, but if you happen to still have this table, check the mute relay. This may be the cause of the dead channel. Cheers.
So, I agree with the observation that it could be the connectors at the cartridge. A few older cartridges I have bought needed the pins cleaned. You can also carefully "spin" the connectors on the pins to ensure good contact. On vintage Grados I have found that pulling the stylus and LIGHTLY cleaning the four magnet posts (the ends only) can help. Grado packs their cartridges with black "goop" that needs to be there, but can, over time, run down between the stylus and magnets. Again, just clean the ends of the posts that are visible when the stylus is removed. Makes a huge difference on older Grado carts.
Interesting thank you!
The muting circuit consists of a switch near the RCA connectors that may have been oxidized and the cause of one channel cutting out. Just playing it a few times may have cleared up the connection but some contact cleaner would have most likely fixed it.
Nice idler turntable. My friends dad also had one, but he stored it with the idler wheel engaged, so the rubber malformed over the years.
Couldn't keep the RPM stable because of that.
About that right channel issue:
Most of the time, full automatic TTs have some kind of mechanical "mute" switch to disconnect the cartridge from the output while its not playing.
Maybe this Dual also has one which has switching issues due to dust or oxidation?
It seems like the cartridge is mounted on a tray that can be released by pulling the headshell handle backwards.
Maybe the tray contacts have been oxidized?
Wow interesting 🧐
@@Recordology I hope the hints are helpful, good luck.
I hope you'll win the duel in the end, errr... Dual, I mean.
This guy owns a repair shop and has many good repair videos, also about multiple different Dual turntables: czcams.com/video/keTLmHkbLB8/video.html
So if you're really stuck, you might find something helpful at his channel.
He's very knowledgeable, gave me valuable advice on repairing an old tube radio that had a lot of noise issues I couldn't get rid of.
Beautiful
I have several Duals including a 1229. That Grado could be the issue. I love Grado, but newer grado's have issues on some Duals. I had 3 Grado silvers. and sound great, but some times cause issues. removed two and put older grado' G1 and Fc no trouble The 1229 still has the silver, but I just tap head shell to clear. With issue still Love the tables. Don't laugh I have 9 and play them all.
Great vid
Thank you!
Sounds like the cartridge may be cactus...
The Dual wins most of the time. It’s a tank, it will last forever and it’s a piece of German expertise. I have two, I have them originally from the early 70’s. I had to try and repair the model 1249. I think is one of if not their best unit. After months of work and research. I gave up, it kicked my ass. Fortunately I learned of a person who on a very very limited bases agreed to do a complete restoration. I got it back after 10 days. It works perfectly. I love my Dual 1249. It’s fantastic. Note: I did purchases an Audio Technica AT LP 120. While it works great, there is no comparison. The Dual wins hands down. I will keep the AT LP 120 for my 78 rpm collection.
First ! Replace that boring Grado for a Shure M 95 with an elliptical needle... With a Dual "Click System" it won't need a special adjustment and will sound much better
My late dad had a newer one. It came with an Audio-Technica stylus, at least is the one I've always seen on it.
Looks like you don't have much experience with these. You don't EVER pull back the start lever after you push it to start ! I had 17 Dual turntables at one point including a couple with direct drive. I still have about 15 Dual turntables and may be interested in selling some of them.
I have a 1219 sitting in my den right now. I bought it new back in 1969. Still works but needs a new cartridge.
Cool!
And they were warrantied for 3 years in case of wear out.
I also noticed I do not see you have groud wire connections
It's probably double insulated.
These all had ground wires, someone probably cut it.. I have a 1229 the cadilac at the time 1973 with the 7lb platter. Trust me I know I have 10 different Duals and all have grounds
Was I the only one who cringed when he nonchalantly flipped the single/ multi lever on the tone arm.
The rubber boot does crack easily on this piece and the ball bearings drop out. I used a couple of fat O’rings to fix mine
I hade a dual 701 direct drive.but it was stolen never got it back
One ought not to touch the edge of the idler, lest you get finger oil on it.
Thing is pretty modern for 69
That Record Wrecker looks nasty! No way in HELL I'd let my records near that thing!
"Rim drive" idler driven turntables were awful. It's amazing how an archaeological find like this changes from the "junk" it was considered back in the day to something fantastic now that it's vintage. The rim drive gives you the worst of both worlds. The reason belt drive is preferred in some cases is that it isolates any motor rumble from the platter, but at the cost of a higher wow and flutter due to belt stretching. Direct drive is preferred in other cases due to the low wow and flutter and other torque considerations, but at the cost of possible motor noise getting transferred to the platter. Rim drives are bad at both. They fail to fully isolate the motor from the platter so rumble (and feedback transfer through the plinth too) is probable yet the use a rubber idler that can slip, warp, get flat spots, and especially with that tapered drive motor shaft on the Dual have little hope of ever having a low wow and flutter. As a piece of furniture they were a marvel to behold, but as a high-end piece of audio equipment, they were not.
realy have you ever heard a garard 301.or a thorns TD 145 ? no motor noise there .Belt drive became popular because it was cheaper to make.there are good sounding direct drive/belt drive turntables but also idler drive as well.
I will concede that there probably were some well built turntables that used this design. But as a general rule this design does not have a good reputation. Just about every BSR turntable used a design based on this one and those were the "Crosley" of their day. They used it on the cheapest of all in one boxes. They didn't do that because it was the most expensive design to implement. They did it because it was cheap to make and adequate for the job.
@@robtitheridge9708 belt drive were cheaper to make good. Idler drive were probably just as cheap to make especially in the earlier days when it was almost all they made at least for the consumer market. Idler drive had much more torque suiting record changers.
@@jaymartinmobile the main problem with idler drive as with direct drive is they need a heavy platter to isolate motor noise. Idler drive Duals had heavy platters along with high end Garrards and other better turntables. Belt drive allowed for lighter aluminium or even plastic platters without too much motor noise. BSR changers went the route of plastic platters in their later low end models and some belt drive single players.
I was there "back in the day". They were never considered "junk" at the time. There certainly were price snobs who berated them because they could spend more on something else, but they were, and if well maintained and cared for, very unlikely to be the weakest link in a well put together system.