Upgrading SVS 4000 Subwoofers to SB16 Ultras
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2020
- I upgraded from an SVS PB4000 and PC4000 combo that I was running in sealed mode, to a dual SB16-Ultra pair. I both wanted to see how much more headroom I could get and what the differences, if any, there were to be heard between 'sealed mode' of the ported drivers, and a true sealed sub.
Equipment Used:
iPhone X
Shure MV88+ Mic: amzn.to/2PUyPIK
Polk Audio LSiM707 Speakers: amzn.to/2NQxTCg
Polk Audio R50 Speakers: amzn.to/2E1XfJ4
Yamaha RX-V2085 Receiver: amzn.to/2JUfWBE
Monolith 3x200 watt Amplifier: amzn.to/2NQty2d
Monolith Interconnects: amzn.to/2Np0qA3
Custom Speaker Wires: • How To Make Top Qualit...
Various Acoustimac & GIK Acoustics absorption and diffusion panels: amzn.to/2JUOjby
Synology 1019+ NAS: amzn.to/31h10mY
Seagate IronWolf Drives: amzn.to/32jV6D4
Recorded in Pure Direct, straight to and from camera. Source, Amazon Music HD over Airplay at CD Quality. CZcams does not support more.
Sound Demo videos are not monetized by me, all proceeds go direct to the respective copyright holders.
How To Place Speakers: • Master Set & Rational ...
Polk LSiM707 Unboxing: • Polk LSiM 707 Unboxing...
Polk LSiM706 Unboxing: • Polk LSiM 706c Center ...
Polk LSiM702 Unboxing: • Polk Audio LSiM 702 Un...
Polk LSiM707 Review: • Polk Audio LSiM707 Tow...
Monolith 3x200 Amplifier Review: • Monoprice Monolith 3x2...
Streaming Services Comparison: • Which Music Service Is...
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I upgraded from an SVS PB4000 and PC4000 combo that I was running in sealed mode, to a dual SB16-Ultra pair. I both wanted to see how much more headroom I could get and what the differences, if any, there were to be heard between 'sealed mode' of the ported drivers, and a true sealed sub.
Equipment Used:
iPhone X
Shure MV88+ Mic: amzn.to/2PUyPIK
Polk Audio LSiM707 Speakers: amzn.to/2NQxTCg
Polk Audio R50 Speakers: amzn.to/2E1XfJ4
Yamaha RX-V2085 Receiver: amzn.to/2JUfWBE
Monolith 3x200 watt Amplifier: amzn.to/2NQty2d
Monolith Interconnects: amzn.to/2Np0qA3
Custom Speaker Wires: czcams.com/video/YuxK-HQGvkI/video.html
Various Acoustimac & GIK Acoustics absorption and diffusion panels: amzn.to/2JUOjby
Synology 1019+ NAS: amzn.to/31h10mY
Seagate IronWolf Drives: amzn.to/32jV6D4
Recorded in Pure Direct, straight to and from camera. Source, Amazon Music HD over Airplay at CD Quality. CZcams does not support more.
Sound Demo videos are not monetized by me, all proceeds go direct to the respective copyright holders.
How To Place Speakers: czcams.com/video/kjYTGV0LMcs/video.html
Polk LSiM707 Unboxing: czcams.com/video/q2rBKmocYRM/video.html
Polk LSiM706 Unboxing: czcams.com/video/JiR_yztgdM8/video.html
Polk LSiM702 Unboxing: czcams.com/video/B_103GVXQVo/video.html
Polk LSiM707 Review: czcams.com/video/SoJLyKeJmy4/video.html
Monolith 3x200 Amplifier Review: czcams.com/video/0-k67AtyU_I/video.html
Streaming Services Comparison: czcams.com/video/lzSjm7FsWbM/video.html
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.
How do u even carry this to Best Buy
I blew up 3 of the 2000's at high volume. Then I upgraded to the 16 Ultras and never been happier, absolute beasts!
Plenty of extra headroom 😊
SVS really stepped up for you considering the tools and parts to replace your sub driver. That is how a company should treat its customers. Accidents happen and parts fail but they really took care of you. Kudos to SVS.
The little pup cracks me up. You need him in all your videos.
To be honest, you can look at this situation completely differently! That 50Hz pit can be an excellent natural cut for the subwoofer with the fronts. that is, the subs work from the very bottom to 50Hz with a sharp rollover and cutoff also in their settings, and the fronts pick up from 50Hz and beyond, which they can easily do.
Thanks for this, I really enjoyed the video! Can’t believe you improved that null for the right sub by 10db.
Nice guide on tuning. Well done
Great video! Very informative. Thanks for sharing.
really honest review, can't wait to get one
Hello from Japan!! They don’t have a distributor here in Japan but am considering getting a sub from them!! Love your videos!! Congratulations on the SB16s!!
BTW, I am considering the PC2000 or the PB3000. I don’t get the opportunity to test them out or get free trial period but have you done a review video on the PC sub with movies? There’s not many vids on youtube on them. If you’re ever selling those SVS shirts, please let me know!! It’s impossible to get those here👍🏻✨
There’s a big difference from the 2000 to 3000. The PC is just like the PB, works great. It would be a boring video though since you can’t see the driver lol You get a shirt with every purchase.
CO Guy Stuff Thanks for your reply. Oh ok, so they sound basically identical. I was kind of wondering (wishing) it would be harder to localize the subs due to it firing downwards:). Oh ok, cool👕！
Great video !!
Thanks for sharing
Was torn between the pb-3000 and the sb4000 but i mainly use for music paired with kanto yu6 speakers on my 7 foot computer desk. The sb4000 seems more in line with what i will use it for.Thanks
Appreciate you sharing these tips. REW is fantastic and far more precise than Audyssey MultiEQ XT 32 on its own.
I finally understand what you mean by cleanliness!
Dude.... Absolutely loved this video and the detail you went into. I love bass and while I'm not brand loyal I have to say that svs are amazing as far as customer service is concerned. I have pc 2000's and they are more than I need for my space but I can't help but wonder what you guys who are able to purchase these massive subs are experiencing. Maybe one day I'll have dual pb16 ultras, just maybe 😊
No one needs the power output of pb16 ultras but the speed and accuracy of the sealed version is certainly something you might want.
@@absolutium I've always thought that same thing, my subs aren't even breaking a sweat so I really don't need more output but I wouldn't mind having sealed subs just because I also listen to lots of music.
Man, wish you could set up my system! great video!
Nice and love the pup lol
I have a couple of those. Got them up off the ground onto base stands then they sounded amazing. Lost that muddy sound.
Did you ever have an updated video of your dual sb16 ultras?
You will most definitely enjoy the MiniDSP 2x4 HD. It will enhance your subwoofer setup even further. You already have the UMIK-1 mic and already use REW. Go for it and enjoy it man!
I got my curve within 3db. You won’t hear the difference.
What a great little dog you have :D
Excellent video ... I have a Marantz 1710 & dual PB-1000 subs. I don't have DSP other than whats in the AVR - I do have MiniDSP calibrated mic and REW ... I guess all I have to play with are slight placement (need symmetry) and phase. I am not a wizard with REW so how would you recommend I start with the phase controls? Do I test with the mains on? Single sub only, then other, then both? I have a couple of nulls just like you showed and hope phase (my only controls) will help. Thanks for your thoughts!
Just found out the pb4k has less distortion than the sb16! Game changer
I have an amazing system but wish i had the knowledge to set it up like you did yours.
Are there any professionals that will do what you did?
I did the opposite. My SB16s didn’t hit like I wanted. I guess I was used to my PB-3000s. I did the upgrade program from the dual SB-3000s to the SB16s but ultimately exchanged the dual SB16s to the dual PB-4000s. I desired more bass and the PB-4000 did this for me. Hope you are enjoying your SB16s.
Well your PSA’s now!
Did the SB16 outperform the dual SB3000s?
that dog is so awesome , great ring the bell idea too never seen that before :P. oh back to the video :P
Ever considered going for the PB-16 Ultras? Did you ever use the 4000 in extended mode? (Think you mentioned it in one of your videos)
Subwoofers looks closer together. Did you calibrate for optimum placement?
Wow. Very thorough run downs...I got newb overload when you went into the steps you go thought to calibrate the sound and placement and can’t lie I got lost. Can you elaborate on those steps , or do you have a video explaining that? Of a reference I can read up on?
Yes there are previous vids
Lololol I can't believe you have a video on these. I didn't know you did non cigar stuff. Gunna subscribe here too. I hope you are recovering well sending good vibes brother.
Thanks for the video, can you explain how you’re running your mains? Are they full range or are they crossed over?
Everything is bass managed
First off. Thank you for sharing this with us. Second, how did you decide between sealed Vs. Ported subs? I was told (for my use) ported would be a better choice for me as most of my usage will be movies. Your thoughts?
That's a common myth I see plastered all over, that ported are for movies, sealed for music. In reality ported do play louder than the same sealed version, however they are not as controlled. A clear tight drum THUMP is more like a louder THUMMM. But most people equate volume with quality. Servo controlled ported subs are the best of both worlds. I simply tested sealed and ported, liked the tight sealed sound far better and just got large enough models to pressurize the room to what was needed.
@@COGuyStuff I'm looking at the JTR 4000ULF
Could you please share what type of mic and apps to help located the best spot for subs, I have recently purchase dual PB 3000 and stumbled on this video.
Thank you.
You could use REW with a miniDSP UMIK-1 USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone
;)
www.amazon.com/miniDSP-UMIK-1-Measurement-Calibrated-Microphone/dp/B00N4Q25R8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=1FSXTEBLKRE6P&dchild=1&keywords=umik-1&qid=1606330527&sprefix=umik%2Caps%2C230&sr=8-2
I want to get pb 16 ultras to match my lcr ultras but scarred for this part im new to home audio
Dual PB16 Ultras all the way!
But the woofers look almost the same size between 16 ultra and 4000 pro or it is just me?
I have a single sub and I have never played with the phase setting. I have used SVS peq settings to address peaks and nulls. However I have always assumed that the room correction software such as Audyssey would automatically calibrate the phase from the AVR side of things via the SW distance setting. Have I been thinking about this incorrectly?
It usually gets fairly close, that’s it.
Good morning I recently bought 1 sennheiser ambeo soundbar which I am really happy with. I would like to add 1 subw model svs sb4000 or svs pb4000 for more bass. I would like to ask you if by inserting one of these two models I can improve the bass sound more or given the high costs of the models described above, I only keep the soundbar? we are talking about € 2399 and € 2899. for this reason I ask you if by adding 1 subw I really gain from listening to both music and movies. Thanks for your answers
Thanks for the video! I do have a minor question - why don't you run your ported subs in ported mode for movies?
It’s a newbie myth that one mode is for movies and the other for music.
CO Guy Stuff I know, I use sealed sub in my system as well and I only watch movies. What interests me is why do you prefer sealed despite the ability of your subs to run ported
@@COGuyStuff Another day I went to B&W，they still told me the sub was intended for the movie only，pure music did not need a sub........And I still pretend I was convinced and noded the head hhhh
Where can I get that set of art panels? I can't seem to find any that have decent art on them.
Acoustimac
Hi,
I saw on CZcams some people who had issues with their SVS Subs.
What is your experience?
The beginning of this video was cool to see the general style of your neighborhood and how close your neighbors are. I wonder how the bass SPL measures outside of your house as you move away from your living room?
The house is very well sealed. You can’t hear anything coming in or out
Great video! I run a 2 channel music setup and I'm stuck deciding between a pair of SVS PB3000 (in sealed mode) or a pair of SVS SB16 Ultra. Price/performance sometimes being the motivator. My system is a McIntosh tube preamp with a Mcintosh solid state 450w/ch amp and I randomly go between heavy bass tracks and light acoustic tracks. Any thoughts based on your experience?
Apples and oranges. The sb16 is a whole other level
CO Guy Stuff , good to know. Thank you for your response!
Did you add the isolation system under the sb16s? Do you recommend using them?
You should have some form of isolation (feet or platform) under any subwoofer.
good video, again how did u manage to blow the driver. those can be played at insane levels, the amps have a protection limiter that wont allow the driver to be damaged., i have 2 pb4000s in my home theater room and i set volume limit at reference, rarely i watch movies at ref. level
He didn't blow it, it was a refurbished unit as far as i understand atleast, it was defective upon delivery.
Yep
Do you need a weapons permit for these? Pretty sure these are deadly when mishandled
26:50 This is the reason you get the Definitive Technology - Descend 15" Sub 3XR....or at least I did and NEVER looked back at anything from SVS ever again.
I have a single SB3000, need more output and low end extension. Get another SB3000 or single SB16?
More subs do nothing for extension. Bigger is better
I'm somewhat of a cheapskate so I just got two pb12 nsd. Almost went with the sb12 and still might but my room is 4500cuft even though my viewing area is only a small portion. Gonna work on tuning soon as I have time. Hoping to move up to your level sometime in the future.
What are those apc things you have the subs plugged into?
Just surge protectors but I haven't used them in years
I have an odd shaped room as well. I’ve been considering moving away from my GoldenEar xxl super sub to SVS. I don’t have enough room for PB’s, so I’m looking as SB’s. Considering the sb4000 or maybe the sb 16 ultra. I love movies, and love that super low growl base. Did you think your sb4000 went low enough for you? That’s the one issue i have with my GE, i just don’t think it goes low enough. Does the Ultra’s go noticeably lower? Thanks!
\
They both have great range. In my room I get more in all areas from the 16s
@@COGuyStuff Don't regret not going with the PB line?
Not at all, I specifically wanted sealed. Faster, tighter bass and these have more than enough volume for as loud as I play
If these came to my door my wife would probably faint, anyway still love the bass.
Nube here. Can this service be offered to private customers. In other words, how could I locate someone to come to my home and go through the same tuning process??
I am trying to decide between the SB16-Ultra and the Pb-4000 currently. Can you give me anymore insight between the two. Did the pb-4000 have more output than the sb16 when run open ported?
Output was virtually identical, the only practice difference was the extra bottom end extension and more controlled sound. Less room ringing
If you spending that money, go with an 18” PSA sub. Way more everything, for far less
I watched both your videos about the SVS 4000 and 16Ultra, both had the issue of bad drivers? What the cause of those issue?
Moron previous owners blowing them and svs not fully testing returns. They were outlet subs.
@@COGuyStuff Thank you :)
With all the talk about using or needing ported boxes for getting true movie experience, how does sealed box compare so far?
A very common myth. Sealed produce perfect sound, you just need more of it.
CO Guy, Good Stuff! I always wondered about that🤔. Thanks so much!
Do they have that same idea for your phone to test your speakers
No, phones can’t do that accurately at all
Cute dog 🐕
I have a PB4000 and am really considering going to dual SB16 ultras.. not sure if that's a good move though! Can you tell me what you think? Is the SB16ultras much better?
You’re going to lose a lot of subsonic frequency
@@PIPERBOYWILLIAMS I actually ended up sending the SVS back, and went with dual monolith 15"s for the same price as a single pb 4000.
Both of the drivers in my SB16 Ultras require replacing (purchased in January of this year). I have to say I'm considering just returning them. How are yours holding up after 11 months?
Fine. My issues were all from the previous owners.
@@COGuyStuff Does SVS require you to return the defective drivers after you replace them, or can you do with them as you please?
Got a question, why did you decide to go from ported to sealed?
I greatly prefer the tighter control and deeper extension.
Very impressed with your knowledge. I'm in serious need of a professional like you to set my Subs. Great video. Im surprised you went from ported to sealed. 🤔
so you do not run Audyssey ( edit YPAO ) at all and use the AVR for extra EQ ? Do you find that best method? I'm not sure I can use Audyssey Xt and also add manual EQ modes
It’s a Yamaha, yes as I said I ran full YPAO calibration again.
Not all models will have manual modes. I’m my case the 2085 allows you to copy the auto results to a manual preset for further changes.
@@COGuyStuff right, my Integra only has Auto or Manual so I'm not sure what to do. ( 2 x SB 3000 )
I’m not an Onkyo fan at all. Personally I would run auto and forget about it. If you need more than the app, get a minidsp
Your neighbours must be happy with you. :-)
how do the ultras match up with the 707s? i have a pair of 707s and need some subs . as of right now its a 7.0.4 setup
Perfectly
can you put the sub in your seat and just move the mic around?
Sure, if you can actually place it right, in a seat. Any good sub makes that impossible
@@COGuyStuff I'm assuming I would want the speaker itself to be where my head is? I can get my PB2000Pro in the seat and angled with the speaker and ports around where my head is, but it is at an angle so that I don't squish the cables in the back.
I know this video is a few years old but do you remember if the rattle on the faulty sub was intermittent, ie it came and went from time to time? I have 2 sb16s and one has made the same rattle you show in this vid straight out of the box but it's only happen once or twice and I'm concerned if I send it back the supplier will just say they couldn't find an issue and return it to me 🤔
It would only happen under certain circumstances, but was repeatable if you found them. Any such noise indicates a problem.
@@COGuyStuff ok thanks 👍
Still happy with them? I’m going from two pc2000 pros to two of these and have no idea what to expect.
Still have um! They are enough for my room, are small and look great. Done.
Hi i need your advice, I have a SVS PB 3000, Am looking to get another Sub, I know someone selling a Svs 16 Ultra for 1500 which is a awesome deal, Do you think it's ok to run the PB 3000 with the 16 Ultra?
Sure but you will need to run them through a minidsp for correct matching
@@COGuyStuff Got it, I watched a few comparison videos with the PB 3000 and the PB 4000, From what I heard those 2 are very close in comparison, But the 16 Ultra is a beast in its own class
They are certainly very nice subs
@@COGuyStuff I agree I was looking at the Monolith 15 and 13, But I heard Svs make all around better Subs.
Have you tried or thought about Rythmic Subs. I am looking hard at those. I like the idea of servo controlled motors.
I have not
Normally what would be the cost to set up a sound surround system 🤔 the way you do. Some of use just don't have the equipment or patience.
Are your svs still available for sale?
No
just went from dual pb1000 pros to the sb 16 ultra. i gained some more vibrations but the over all bass output just seems down. very underwhelmed by the sb16. especially when if u have the space u can buy multiple cheaper drivers and have a much more balanced response. in order to pressurize i have to push the sb16 to its limits and it distorts horribly
You have something seriously wrong with your placement and or setup then, it’s not even a question.
How did you do a distortion test
You measure with rew, turning it up until you see compression in the responce
@@COGuyStuff so I click on the distortion tab in rew and do I which harmonic to click on at the bottom
No. Normal frequency sweeps. Then look at the graphs
Did the pb4000s sell?
Very fast
Sorry about your luck with two drivers in a row. Were those outlets subs or brand new?
Outlet
not surprised about the svs being blown... bought 3 sb-4000’s and two of them were blown. can’t have it all i guess.
Figured your have a dedicated room for this much gear... Bet your neighbors love you : )
I would love a SVS shirt
Buy a sub from SVS :)
I thought the 4000 series was the newest and best from them, so why go back to the SB16's? Just curious.
Newest at the time not the best. It was a refresh of the ultra13 line
@@COGuyStuff So the SB 16 ultras are their best, or better? I'm looking to getting a pair but seen on their website as advertised their "new" lineup was the 4000's, thanks!
New has nothing to do with best, I don’t know why you are equating the two. Yes the 16 is their flagship series. Head and shoulders over everything else they have.
@@COGuyStuff Because in the owners videos he states that even though the 16-ultra was their flagship, the creation of the 4000 series takes the same performance of the 16-ultra, but in a more affordable price as quoted here from their website, "With trickle down technology from the 16-Ultra Series, named top subwoofers in the world by nearly every audio publication and industry group in 2017, the SB-4000 obliterates expectations and delivers a level of unrivaled subwoofer performance only available from SVS" keyword being "unrivaled" as in better than anything they have in their subwoofer category. So as per their website the sb/pb4000 are "newer" and better than the 16-ultras. having the 16ultras is like having a top of the line Ferrari because of what it is vs a cheaper model in the Ferrari lineup that's just as fast, you just get to show off that you spent more money on it. they're basically the same thing with the 4000 being turned down a notch at 1,200w vs the ultra at 1,500w. I simply asked you with your knowledge which one is better in your opinion, not based on "flagship" bias or not.
@@jwallace7230 Nowhere does it says those are better.. pb16 are their best sub period.. but most people would consider that model overkill.
Co Guy stuff Please lmk if your still getting rid of the old subs or any other gear got the audio bug trying to build something up so if there's anything you know of to help would be very grateful
The pc4000 is still for sale, local only
If moving the sub 1/2" makes a big difference, wouldn't moving the microphone 1/2", or moving your head 1/2" when listening, do the same?
Yep absolutely! Lots of people don’t realize that!
@@COGuyStuff But you can't listen to audio without moving your head 1/2". And your head can't ever perfectly recreate the exact positioning of your microphone during the calibration within 1/2", so I don't see how it's beneficial to try to get your speaker placement so precise. That degree of precision can't ever matter in real world use. Does that make sense? That's why calibration programs like Audyssey, Dirac, etc. use multiple measurement points to get averages.
You're absolutely right, to a degree, it doesn't always matter to that extent in the real world. There certainly is quite a bit to all the charts, graphs and measurement, that gets tossed out the window in real listening/viewing conditions. But if you can improve something with minimal effort, why not?
@@COGuyStuff I guess I'm just saying that your specific methodology doesn't make sense to me, that's all. I might be missing something. I'm all for measurements, but going to the trouble of moving the sub to like 8 different 1/2" locations seems like basically wasted effort to make the measurements look good without any actual real-world benefit to you the listener. But again, I may just be missing something. Regardless, you do you and more power to you. :)
This helps me man. I am weighing up the 4000 and 16 range . Seems the SB-16 is the way.
6:06 ... did Clover just signal for her human to open the door?
Yep
Great video..👍
If you were youst watching movies and dont listen to music would still have change to the seald subbs..??
Absolutely. And I watch more movies than I listen to music.
@@COGuyStuff do you have a power amp for your towers or are you youst using the yamaha..?
Monolith for lcr
@@COGuyStuff ok..👍
@@COGuyStuff I assume you have the 3 channel for your lcr? Been thinking of doing the same and wondered if your happy and content with it. Simple can be good if it works....
Great Video! Did you consider sb-4000’s at all? I’m conflicted between those and the sb-16’s. I know you said in the video you were looking for max headroom, so I’m assuming that’s why you jumped to the 16’s. I’m comparing the 3000, 4000, and 16’s. Keep up the great work!
That would have been the same output at best.
velodyneman SPL is almost identical for 3000 and 4000, 4000 just digs a little lower and is a little louder below 20Hz. Otherwise, you get 90% of 4000 with 3000, but the price is lower. There is also some new tech in 3000 series like split voice coil. I would definitely get a 16 Ultra if I were choosing between 4000 and 16. 4000 became a kind of an odd offering after 3000 was introduced, but 16 Ultra is still the undisputed king
I would love a free shirt SIR
Why didn't you do a sound test?????
It looks like that area is way too small for subwoofers of that size area.
Lol no
if the room was a lot less open, then yeah, it's way to fucking small. However, the amount of open room makes it quite difficult for the subs to push throughout the room.
Coryed?
Huh?
Cory Harrison from the Klipsch owner’s group. When people receive gear from him they call it being Coryed😂 He sends everything through R&L Carriers.
No clue dude. Never heard of the group or the guy.
You sir must not like your neighbors.
Blown driver... what the. Q:, if you're needing to really brute force your DB because of the goofy room, why aren't you running PB? Just dimension restrictions?
Because I greatly prefer the performance of sealed.
@@COGuyStuff But the PB16 significantly out performs the SB16 subwoofers in every benchmark. The only downside to the PB is the footprint.
How much for the subs? Lol
Cigars AND SPEAKERS?!?!?!?!?!
I am a little baffled over how many setups in american livingrooms where people have their tv mounted above the fireplace... 😮 Just seems like a very strange thing to do from a european perspective
Oh, right there with you. I'll tell you with one simple word, why that is. Wives. They LOVE the look of these stupid, often never used, outdated, useless throwbacks to the last couple hundred years. Ours isn't even connected, it's 100% for looks. She absolutely refuses to entertain the idea of removing it.
@@COGuyStuff I wasnt out to spark negativity against anyone, just curious why this happens. Mounting tv's that high just seems like a trend in us, specially above a fireplace... In europe we follow the "mid-picture of the television in a horisontal line from the eyes when sitting" rule of thumb
You also don’t typically have full mantle fireplaces to live around ;)
Clover outshined svs subs......
Godzilla audio sucks. Wont stress my PB4000 with that movie
First world 🌎 problems right bro
Only poor people say that lol