Jet Engine Thrust Test (Diesel vs Jet-A vs Hydrodiesel)
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- čas přidán 12. 06. 2024
- I test-run 3 different fuels in my RC jet engine to see which one makes the most power. Jet A, Diesel, and HydroDiesel which contains 80% Diesel and 20% water.
I Built the jet dynamometer in this video then I put all 3 fuels to the test with some intense full-throttle runs as well as running the same test with the 3-jet go-kart and the results are very surprising.
This time I test run each I let the ECU fully adjust to the new fuel before doing the dyno pulls with the jet engines, I did 20 to 30-second Full throttle Dyno pulls, which is much longer than anybody would hold the throttle in the full power position under circumstances except for maybe a fighter jet..lol.
I also sent the fuel samples to Project Farm for a lubricity test of Diesel vs HydroDiesel and the results were unexpected.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:42 Fuels
01:11 Project Farm Diesel Test
02:35 Start Test
03:00 Jet-A Thrust Test
04:23 Diesel Thrust Test
05:19 HydroDiesel Thrust Test
06:45 Go-Kart Test Setup
07:18 Go-Kart Jet-A Thrust Test
08:52 Go-Kart Diesel Thrust Test
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Carbon 12
www.c12.tv
Produced By: Carbon 12
Directed By: Matt Mikka - Zábava
Heres how the engine sounded after those tests czcams.com/video/g394IX-4MD8/video.html ... Bearing now shit i think HAHHAH
try warming up the diesel before the test. this will help improve the viscosity and will reduce the strain on the pump somewhat.
@@TheDaken that's a great idea
Excellent results ! Dead on the numbers I came up with. Do you want to try a Rolls Royce 201? I have several.
Mild threats just for some statistics is crazy
He's obviously not scared, the dudes missing digits he ain't playing!
What could you possibly threaten him with for that anyway? Lawsuits? Wedgies?
No surprise with how twisted people are....
@@jimtom8273yeah but there's always that one that's crazier. Just remember that 😜😁
@@ExcerionsForte lolol wedgies
1:11 Hearing background music over Todd's testing is straaange 😅
Using music is like people who don't understand design and whitespace - they feel the need to fill every inch of space with noise.
I did it on purpose, for that exact reason, And even the girls vocals and what she says when she says it, it was strange but I found it funny because Todd never ever uses rap music hahhaha
@@WarpedPerception The contrast had me laughing the whole time! Now you need to use one of Todd's classics like "Mountain" in one of your sequences 😃
Keep up the experimentation! That was very interesting and a lot of fun to see!
Thanks for doing the test, at least I was able to put this to rest.
Hopefully you enjoyed my music selection hahaha.
98,000 RPM is insane!!! These jet engines are a marvel of engineering!
If you think 98k is bad, people use turbochargers to build jet engines that spool in excess of 300k
@@SupernovaSpence Wow, it’s hard to imagine anything spinning that fast.
You can thank material science bros for that.
my 12kg r/c heli hovered at 111,000 turbine rpm .54mm o/d turbine with 72mm dia freeturbine .
Theoretical maximum is 120k rpm, or approximately 40 rpm/$, which is not bad, i suppose
Heck yeah! Todd from Project Farm! I keep up with his weekly videos.
Also, it's good to see you use your intuition and not get on it if it didn't feel right.
Thanks for sharing.
Yeah intuition is usually right
8:02 bro touched the jet
You could tell he realized it real quick. At least it wasn't "smoking glove" hot.
Todd from ProjectFarm is a stone-cold gangsta. 😎
I wish I was there in person to witness and smell those bench tests. I love the smell of jet a in the morning.
Yeah the kerosene and jet a smell pretty good, the diesel not so sure .
Similarly, I used to love attending NHRA Drag events when almost everyone was running pure methanol. Nothing else quite smells like that.
As a former Turbofan Test Engineer for Lockheed and Rolls-Royce, it's always interesting to me to see these smaller engines. Similar concept, but totally different in how they are lubricated.
On large (Trent 900, 1000, and XWB that I worked on) Jet A is the fuel and we use turbine oil from a tank which is pumped to the bearings.
Anyway, great experiment, and thanks for the video!
Yeah I agree, they are so simple but actually work, In the case of these small engines they just redirected one of the injector tubes to go through the bearings before it's injected into the combustion chamber and u have to mix the turbine oil 2.5% to 5%, but as a result they are rated for 25hr service intervals which is nothing compared to a trent or RR lol, I plan on showing this more in detail later. Like with this engine here the bearings were shot by the last test, I'll share a video with you shortly.
Here you go czcams.com/video/g394IX-4MD8/video.html
@@WarpedPerception , man, that's awesome!
@@WarpedPerceptionsounds like the two stroke version of a jet engine, gotta mix oil in the fuel and you always end up filthy 😂
BTW if you haven't seen it yet you might enjoy the latest vids that TechIngredients have put out there's a turbine experiment and most recently looking at a pulse jet
You came to my school today. I told you I would find your channel. Sick video man. I was the one that asked the question and said I like playing video games
Haha! I remember you, Love it I'm a little embarrassed because I don't have any good videos right now but I was recovering from a brain injury for the last 7 months.... It's been hell on Earth
Was not expecting to see PF on the channel! Love the collaboration
Thanks, Yeah he was nice enough to run the test for me.
Yessir, he's back with the jet engines. 🔥
I’m so happy you were able to collaborate with Project Farm.
Well I didn't do too much I just sent him the samples...lol
Great video as always. The jet sound is music to my ears. Thanks for the re-test.
Thanks, I didn't want to do another video on this but it was on my backlog.
Also I noticed you have a CNC machine my boyfriend has a CNC machine and I would like for you to do a slow motion 4k on the CNC machine I'm very curious to see what it looks like in slow motion.@@WarpedPerception
I'm sure there still be doubters, but looks pretty conclusive to me 🤷♂️ Nice job like always Matt!
Oh yeah you know how that goes, thank you. After this test was done the next day I even went with some bigger fuel lines took it back out and tested it again and it was the same, I don't know why it made less stress outside then on the bench.
Love to see you team up with Project Farm!
Two of my fav channels in one video, instant like.
To squeez out the best thrust from diesel fuel, you should retune the parameters to allow more RPM As diesel fuel is denser than kerosene, it also needs more air to be pumped in order to reach peak temp. Which is the image of max power.
May be you did, though...
But that may be the reason Diesel appears weaker in spite of beeing a denser fuel.
Thank you for this amazing vid!
The computer does that
@@manuelpiston Yes, you are right but inside the enveloppe of average parameters that work with the intended fuel.
You need to tune (tell new limits to the ECU) to make the machine perform best with a lighter or heavier fuel.
The physical limits aren't supposed to be surpassed though. Theses are the real limitations. But again, most of the time, the ecu mapping has to be tuned for an optimal result with a different fuel.
The turbine manufacturer sets its ecu to safe enough limit parameters, in order to offer a garantee .
Mhm if I remember correctly I read that the longer hydrocarbon chains in diesel need longer too burn complete since it is a preety brord range of chain lengths that so that the engergy get behind the turbine reduceing the rpm and therfore air intake leading too lower thrust
Kerosin is basically a main part of diesel but it is only a small fraction compared too diesel and it burns faster and cleaner In a jet engine soo with a different burning chamber aka a longer one the diesle will get more efficient
@@TheLtVoss when I was working in the navy we use helicopter engines as generators on certain type of ships to reduce noise.
These turbine engines required a specific type of burners to allow a complete combustion of the diesel fuel that got inside.
The electronic differences were essentially about the starting phase management.
We also use RollsRoyce Olympus turbo jet engine to produce power on propeller shaft. Again, different fuel burners than Concorde were used to burn marine diesel fuel.
I guess here, the small turbines are designed to run on kerosene and are not able to squeeze out the full potential of a denser and more sluggish to ignite fuel . As a matter of fact, we could see unburned fuel outside of the nozzle during runs on Diesel and Water Diesel mix.
Great job bro!
this is my mild threat to u,..............😂
It seems like for the hydro diesel the pump was the limiting factor.
Looking at it, I belive the pump might either be cavitating due to the water content or the fuel system is just undersized for the extra flow needed.
It would make sense for it to cavitate easier as the water content boils at a higher pressure ("less vacuum") than diesel does.
If you compare the rpm of the pump you see something is off:
Jet A - 7500 rpm
Diesel - 8000 rpm
Hydro - Diesel 8700 rpm
Yet still the engine is only at ~90% rpm and the EGT is ~ 170°C low.
A jet engine at 90% rpm is somewhat like a piston engine at 40%rpm.
Yeah exactly, I didn't have time to look into it but I've always had a little trouble starting these engines with hydro diesel, once it's warmed up and running it's fine but starting is another story. But the ECU is looking for RPM, so if it doesn't see the RPM for one reason or another it starts adding more fuel up to the point where it hits the safety limit and then it cuts it. I'm pretty sure that was happening here these particular engines are pretty simple, the ECU just looked for temperature in RPM on a time temperature table.
@@WarpedPerception I see, so it might just be thrown off by lower EGTs due to the cooling effect of the water content. Or something of sorts.
Anyways an interesting video!
That test with Diesel and Hydro-Diesel was really in depth. Great Content!👍🏻🇺🇲
It's one of the most awesome sounds there is. Sounds like it's going a million miles an hour just standing still 👍
It's basically a Honda civic
The springs in your dyno is exposed to the exhaused. This must -shirley- surely introduce a time dependent interference with the measurments.
If you "flip" the bolts holding them, and use longer bolts for the engine attatchments, it should be easy to have the springs "shielded on the outside", and must less effected. No?
Nice demonstration👍
Just a thought, preheating the fuel through a helical coil around the shroud might make a significant difference.
If you decide to try this, the automotive stores have steel tube brake line that would work well for that.
It sounds incredible!😮
You know when things get serious because Todd is called to test things!, as allways mini jet engines videos are the best!
Awesome video man love your channel
It's a 10 minute video. You commented 1 minute after it was uploaded. Did you watch it 10x speed or what?
me when I lie
@@RKTBOX no i watched it just as soon as it was posted
The science is right there in your face... its a weird world for science and scientists like you. You have setups most of us only read about. Great job on the video.
Your videos are great; Here in Brazil, few people know how a turbine works. CONGRATULATIONS ON THE VIDEOS 👍👍
Incredible work! This was fascinating. I've always wondered if reheat is even possible on these engines.
Yes reheat will have to be possible 😄.. I. Going to build soon I just haven't done it yet because if I do it I want to do it right crazy man style but perfection. But I don't want to take any chances so I must build multiple failsafes... Nobody wants a knife in the throat at 100,000 RPM hahahha.
Mild threats ??? Who the hell threatens someone for comparing some fuel, it must have been a fuel manufacturer, those companies kill for less (allegedly).
I know it was crazy and a long story, But yeah I was getting mild threats not from fuel companies though, I think fuel companies love jet engines cuz they drink fuel haha.
I was going to say the same thing practically. Seriously, why would anyone threaten anyone who is at their own expense doing you a service.
There seems to be a new batch of internet Trolls, but most of us on here are older than the internet and especially CZcams so we've seen it all before and I find myself constantly putting trolls in their place. It's like we have built up an immunity to trolls.
South Park did a great episode on internet Trolls. It's right up there with the "Smug Pollution" episode.
Awesome content.
LOve your video's and you know i have to say it! We need an afterburner on one of them!!!!!!! Afterburner please :)
I live in rural Alaska.
The only diesel sold in town is Jet-A.
The fuel oil used for heating homes is Jet-A.
It comes up on a barge from Seattle in a tank labeled Jet-A.
Love your videos ❤
Specially jet engines,see through engine
Glad you like them!
I'm really trying very hard to find something in this video to get angry about, but I just can't find it.......and that makes me really angry grrrrrrrrrr........🤣😂 Your videos are cool. There is always something happening that is unexpected or new, and your videos are top notch quality. 👍
Never heard such jiggety crazy music over a Project Farm video. It ain't right, I tell thee!
Those would be cool on my trike, but it might make people on the bike trail uneasy.
Fantatic thanck you very much!!!! Amasing....😁🤗😃Evandro Pedrosa from Brasil.
Is it possible for afterburner? 😊
Yes, that's been on my list for a while but if I do it I want to do it right which takes some time, that's why I haven't done it yet.
If you do a afterburner on the jet engines could you do another test for thrust to see which one has more. I love these jet engines so much they are so interesting I've been into fighter jets ever since I went to go see the Blue Angels.@@WarpedPerception
FERY Impresive
Oh
Another thing I noticed is the inability of the fuel to have a clean burn or be atomized correctly. It seems the engine was shooting raw fuel out a lot more with hydro diesel and diesel compared to kerosene. Interesting experiments!
Awesome video! I'm just off a 16hour night and have so many questions. Aside from thrust, I wonder the ml fuel per ft/lb-minute and EGT/ft-lb. Also lower EGT should be better for the engine no? what's the EGT/ft-lb? I'm not sure of turbine metrics sorry.
For a follow-up video I would, match full-throttle flow rates with a non-density specific flow meter. It would give you that efficiency data and be a truer comparison as you said because of the viscosity's. Maybe a matched flow rate test, matched ft-lb test and matched EGT test?
i love jet engines! simple and power full no pistons and other stuff
Awesome video as always. Just a heads up @ 6:56 your plate is visible, might want to blur that since I noticed you taped over the plate in all the other shots.
Thanks, they a pseudo plates anyway, I never show my real plates in the videos. But it has happened occasionally in the past, so I appreciate the comment. I just cover it so it's not distracting but they're not real plates.
love you from India ❤
What to do with those engines?
Man, I need that go-kart 🤤👍🏼
I use distilled water + one orange 🍊 squeezed in it, works everytime!
May be you should give it a try?
Would off road diesel perform differently? It used to have higher sulfur but that may have changed.
I have zero use for one of these engines but man, do I still want one!
Expensive though!
Lol .. That was my first thought for years as well, until I wanted to do the see through jet engine 🙂
يعطيك العافيه اشكرك
Looks like a Swinwin engine . Credit to them
Running a jet central mammoth 250 and only ran on diesel so far but waiting to strap it to something worthy !
I bought it just to hear it spool up !
I've heard those jet central engines are pretty good.
Was your diesel fuel winter or summer blend fuel? That would give you some different results.
Hello. I do have one of this jet engines (Xicoy 120N) mounted on a RC plane myself. I can of course share with you what fuel I use, and I think I can also throw a bit of insight on the matter.
I will start saying I (politely) complained on your last video on this topic, but your response was also perfeclty polite, and I hoped for a retest. I think this video is much better done in all ways.
As you say in the closing part, the difference is caused by the different viscosity on diesel vs kerosene. So pump duty cycle must be a bit higher on diesel. Controllers of different manufacturers do this in different ways, if I am not mistaken your turbine is a Swiwin, and they learn the maximum pump setting the first run after defining the PWM range on the throttle channel.
If you did not perform that every single run that explains why in the first video the results are so different. Note that if you perform the the PWM range calibration on diesel it will work on kerosene, since the setpoint is higher than needed, but not the opposite.
For myself, I tested both diesel and Jet A1, with the turbine mounted on the plane, pushing against a simple bathroom weight on a wall. On my ECU you have to manually set if you are using kerosene or diesel so the pump has the right settings. Thrust is within margin of error of my setup (+-5N), marking 125N with both fuels.
I do fly with kerosene usually for two main reasons, since thrust is the same in my tests:
1) The smell in the car is terrible with diesel, since RC plane fuel tanks are not sealed
2) Cold starts are a bit easier on really cold weather (less than 5ºC) with kerosene
I use the manufacturer suggested fuel/lubricant mix, which is 4% total oil, of wich 2/3 are Mobil DTE light industrial turbine oil, and the remaining 1/3 is high quality esther-based 2T oil (motul 800).
A desirable side effect with diesel is that, according to the manufacturer of my turbine, you can run the turbine a bit leaner on oil, at 3% instead of 4%, since diesel is also lubricant in itself. With a bit less oil maybe (have not tested myself) maybe the thrust would be a tiny bit better on diesel. Since we are talking about minimal differences, I will stay with kerosene anyways.
Nice video overall. Keep up the great work. You can check some videos of the plane (and some more turbine-powered) with that turbine in my channel if you have curiosity. Just do not expect anything fancy.
Can you have holes around the exit nasal where flames are existing to see there well more air sucking from end part?
can we see a jet engine with a wet nitrous kit fogging the intake ?????????
Does the dye in the diesel effect the performance? At my previous job our emergency diesels ran straight undyed #2 diesel
The EMI from a jet engine is cause by the stream of sparks from the jet fuel igniters. Once the engine is self-sustaining, the igniters are no longer used and are only used for restarts.
Are you using number 1 or number 2 diesel? That could make a difference and if you are buying it from a gas station explain the issue. Usually they sell #2 during the summer months and #1 during the winter months. Something to thinking about.
Yeah we only have #2 here in the Midwest, That's the same thing project farm told me.
@@WarpedPerception That should just be differences in cetane rating though...
Bro love from INDIA
Notification Squad!🔥🔥🔥
Thanks Matt. People are unfuckinbelieveably comfortable with running their mouth these days. Keep em coming please.
What brand of rc jets do you use ? jetcat, kingtech, jetmunts ?? tks in advance
🔥 💨
Do you have decibel meter? Can you next do decibel test please of this jet engine?
I wish i had a jet engine to put it in my project go cart
Could it be because diesel is a fuel that works better under compression? What if you added a small amount of gasoline to the diesel to help it ignite more easily? My thought process being that the injector and ignitor inside the turbine is essentially like a smaller version of something like a flame thrower? Maybe add a small amount of racing fuel in with regular diesel? Obviously this comes with the risk of blowing up or melting the engine, so im not sure how willing you would be to do that and im just speculating.
I used to work on oil heat. There were experimental oil pre heaters that was supposed to increase efficiency.
I do remember either reading or hearing or seeing something about that, I even think I remember a while back and idea to preheat the fuel by running a coil outside of the housing of the afterburner or something like that.
@@WarpedPerception Mash this suggestion together with another, find out how warm diesel needs to be to match kerosene's viscosity, and heat the container (provided it's not an unsafe amount of heat) so the pump doesn't flow any differently.
Is it possible to run these engines on 2 stroke mix? Like a 40:1 mix?
It is just so stupid that people go so far as to threaten someone just because they don't like the facts. The Kerosene is the winner and that's that. So what? If you want to run diesel then do so. I would run the kerosene though as I would get more performance for the buck from it. I don't care which "wins" by the way. Great test by the way!
Once again, great video, man! Thanks!!
It amazes me how stupid people get, if they don’t agree with a video they chose to watch, which didn’t cost them a dime. 🙄
That's true but I try to play nice...
more power!
That Park's Squirrels will forever tell stories about the man who walked thunder on a leash
Jet-A All the Way!
Lots of room for improvement on this video
Holy smoke, Hydrodiesel, never herad of that stuff.
I would like to take this thing for a spin.
Unrelated but, I think everyone wants to see a twin turbo go-kart/twin turbo see-through engine/twin turbo lawnmower engine
Not sure what engines those are... but in most of mine, there are a few parameter changes needed for diesel.
Is it Shell VPower Diesel/ BP Ultimate Diesel or the Normal Diesel?
Run a flow rate test for each fuel type
i have a request. plz make a video on how to build jet engine for rc planes
I like how we can cyberbully my dude and we get a video of our choice
It's okay I respond well, In elementary school We used to drop ground up fiberglass in the butt crack of any bullies... That was an interesting result Let me tell you.
Can you run these jets on wd40? Expensive, yes. Fun yes!
Hi
Good to see you have seperate orange turn signal on truck
Yeah I like it European style, I don't like the combined red stop light with red turning signal...good eye
@@WarpedPerception thank you, can you make a video about orange turn signal ?
Red one is so stupid and confusing.
@@Mostafa-vs8bd lol... I'm pretty overloaded right now but I'll definitely write it down for my other channel. I absolutely agree that red on red is just too confusing.
@@WarpedPerception thank you so much❤, color coding in brain is faster than waiting to see blinking or it stays on especially in driving that miliseconds matters especially in high speed. Technology connections channel poimt to some article that says orange one reduce accident by33%.
@@WarpedPerception what is the name of other channel?
So what was the result of hydrodiesel
I'm sure WP knows this, but for everyone else, with jet engines the true thrust potential with any fuel essentially comes down to the caloric rating of said fuel, aka how much heat it can generate. Jet engines will optimize around power primarily and efficiency secondarily. While most operating principles in the RC engines are similar to commercial 'full size' jet engines (while being Drastically more simplified), lubricity of the fuel isn't a metric of overly high concern for anything other than subsystems and accessories. The engine itself is relatively low friction already, where the oil is more for heat scavenging of critical components with *some lubricity for bearings and wear surfaces that are sealed away from the combustion environment. Actual jet engine oil is remarkably 'thin' in viscosity at room temperature and even lower at operating temperature, visually equivalent to straw-colored salt water.
Long story short, whatever fuel burns the hottest will have the greater potential net thrust.
Add: Since you asked, I run my experimental engines when I do testing on slightly refined used engine oil, primarily when testing new parts for engines in the 170mm and up size. It burns plenty hot to where you really need to monitor exhaust temperatures to ensure you're not melting parts (although I do composite part testing on occasion and actually want to try to burn them out).
Yes your spot on, The only other variable is how much fuel is physically able to be delivered. But one reason the lubrication was important here is because these little engines use the fuel as lubrication for the bearings, One of the injectors passes through the bearings before being sprayed into the combustion chamber, like you said this isn't the case for larger full size engines because that separated.
But I guess a lot of guys who use these in RC jets were curious.
Thanks for the awesome comment.
@@WarpedPerception I suspected the lube issue might have been the case for the RC engines, which would make sense that you'd want more protection if your fuel is dual use in that case. I don't know how difficult it would be to modify one for a dedicated oiling system, but that's the route I've always gone with even on scratch-built packages. You can do quite a lot with a little gear pump that can supply enough pressure to hit 50psi on bearings and such, but that is also on segregated bearings behind labyrinth seals and relatively more working space on engines designed around ground use. I still enjoyed the video and will always pause what I'm working on to see jet engine action with real-world use. 👍
On that note, waste vegetable oil or throughly filtered engine oil with a few additives for enhanced combustion is a great trick if you're limited in that sense without dedicated oil systems. It's also pretty feisty with sufficient compression and will burn as hot as you want it to (both a pro and a con if you're concerned about HAZs or discoloring your engine case, haha).
1) Are these the largest miniature jet turbines available? 2) Does anyone know if anyone has produced a commercially available miniature turbofan yet?
If jet A was not the most efficient, you would think that the airline companies would know about it.
Diesel fuel causes sulphidation corrosion in gas turbine engines. It will destroy them. That is why Jet A is used
Project farm is worth more then his weight in diamonds
New hydrodiesel please. I really want to see how it performs.
Hasta la vista.
Can you test nitromethane. Since it takes such little oxygen to burn, the engine should be able to inject a lot more of it, so it should make more energy.
Can you build an afterburner for one of your jet engines in your next video?
I would like to build an afterburner myself, but unfortunately I don't have the financial means. Since jet engines are very efficient these days, you should install a small fan so that the afterburner gets enough oxygen to work properly.
I've had that on my list for a long time, just haven't done it yet because if I do it I want to do it right.
hey supra twin lol we wont be twining much longer i decided to paint mine to electric pearl blue
Absolutely love turbine engines.
Where do you order these jet engines from?