5 Once Oppressive Decks That Are Just Bad Now
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- Tired of Ragavan and Fury? Don't worry! There are bright times ahead! They will not be here for ever and here are 5 examples decks that were once oppresive but are now irrelevant to cheer up your day!
Find the decklists here: bit.ly/40bqktA
0:39 Tron in Modern
4:18 Chonky Red in Pioneer
7:54 Niv to Light in Pioneer
10:10 Humans in Modern
13:29 Goblins in Legacy
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Find the decklists here: bit.ly/40bqktA
Man, the love Cardmarket has of older formats and high power interactions has me salivating over Thoralf and Carl throwing down some Canadian Highlander.
Yeah not even kidding - I got a bonus and decided to buy out 90% of my childhood monored Revised "oldschool"/"93-94" legal deck I played back then.
Only I got every single card in Unlimited versions - Not cheap, but dealers just had the cards and only one didn't arrive and I got a refund (a Dragon Whelp so eh).
I tried to spec the buyer matcher to all Beta versions but it would have cost 4500 euros LOL.
i would love to see a canlander episode omg
You can see Thoralf a bit sad talking about the deck he won with not being that good and it breaks my heart 😢
Take his deck and stick it in any older format. It's esssentially broken. It's the same thing, because the internet has streamlined every LGS/game group.
In the 90's/00's, different play groups would have completely different opinions on cards/mechanics. Now, every group is basically the same. The players are cardboard cut out versions of the people from my last group with pretty much identical decks.
The meta homogenizes when everyone netdecks.
Humans was introduced by MagicAids here on YT... Mullens took the deck to scg a week after.
was gonna comment this, not a fan of magicaids content but gotta give credit where credit is due
Absolutely this
Was just about to say that lol
Thank daddy for his masterpiece
MagicRainbows?
13:52 huge missed opportunity to call goblin lackey “goblin lacking”
Hahaha that would have been good!
Beat me to it.
Tron has returned, thank you the one Ring lol
15:56 - Pilfered Mox {0}
Legendary Artifact
{T}: Add one mana of any color. Spend this mana only to cast Goblin spells or activate abilities of Goblins.
Whenever Pilfered Mox becomes tapped, roll a d6. If the result is 2 or lower, sacrifice Pilfered Mox.
(Could also be flip a coin to synergize with Krark and/or his thumb. Notably, in a goblin deck, this is at worst a lotus petal.)
Fragmented Mox [0]
T: Add one mana of any color. Use this mana only to cast spells with a converted mana cost of (1), or to activate abilities of permanents which have a converted mana cost of (1)
That intro was the best I've seen. Tron (chucks deck) hilarious.
Magic’s power creep in recent times is crazy. Mh2 warped modern, the phyrexian arc warped pioneer, etc. I tried getting back into pioneer after a few years and it was full of super oppressive cards almost all just from current standard rotation. Neon dynasty, crimson vow, new capenna, dom united. Aside from a select few cards from older sets like co-co, the most oppressive stuff is still in standard…
i agree completely, especially on the modern part. I remember I had just built Affinity a year or two before Mox Opal was banned and I was devastated. What I've been doing to cope is rebuilding all the classic modern decks I love now that the cards are a lot cheaper. I have Faeries, Affinity, and am working on Tron and Jund.
After the absurd power creep combined with the introduction of universes beyond, I haven't really been interacting with much of the present product they're pushing. Plus, the removal of the block system made everything move way too quickly lore wise and the focus on commander and digital oriented design, I'm not really mechanically interested in MTG the same way i was before :(
Maybe I'm just being overdramatic.
i really like these thoralf big brain deck/format evaluation segments!
carl does a great job leading the conversation/ getting good insights out of thoralf, too.
I'd love to see the same type of analysis with zombies in modern or pioneer. Because I'd love to see a zombie deck again in tier 1
Zombies was, unfortunately, never a popular modern or pioneer deck. But it was a great standard decks in Return to Ravnica and Shadows over Innistrad times :)
Definitely don’t think Tron is tier-1 still, however, would highly recommend if you have the deck taking it to a random FNM sometime. People don’t think it’s a threat any longer, so when you smash down a Wurmcoil or Ulamog and beat them game 1 because they forgot it existed, it’s pure joy.
GL on game 2 and 3 though😅
I agree. I think the point in the video is that - it can't be tier one especially because of all the new cards that hate on the strategy. Tier one decks can beat the hate where as tron gets easily crippled by sideboards
@@StickyBombLauncher definitely, hopefully March of the Machines brings something good for Tron, miss playing it to be honest.
This is true for any of the decks we talked about :) it's not because they are not taking down pro tours that they are not fun decks
@@CardmarketMagic funny enough, Toffles run at Mythic Championship 4 with Tron is what made me get into Magic in the first place, his Tron list was the first I built!
Last time I did that I had wurmcoil on turn 3, 2nd wurmcoil on turn 4 and died to 15+valakut triggers on my opp's turn 4.
LOVED this! Please more historical breakdowns! ❤
I'd toss in modern Jund and Death Shadow as two decks that also fell off a cliff at various points. Although idk if either qualified as oppressive in their hey day.
Jund was once so oppressive that it required several bannings in a row! Back in the return to Ravnica days
@@CardmarketMagic Free Deathrite Shaman. Make Jund good again.
I had a Goblin deck (not even close to Tier 1) but it had Goblin Embermages in it: 3R for a 1/1 1 damage pinger than let you search up another Embermage. Warchiefs plus Embermages stacked into something scary. Loved that combo of "Another warchief, now adding 2 embermages that immediately ping and clear the way for lackey and warchief and siege-gang commander"
Funny how Tron won a tournament recently? xD I think Tron wins by being ignored and underestimated
Glorybringer bringing back the memories. Still one of my favorite cards :)
Love your content guys. Always informative and fun. Danke
Gerne :)
I don't know if it was a video that you made before, just found your channel a couple of weeks ago; but I love this type of video.
Still have my mono-green tron, always loved playing that deck.
This is a fantastic video, please do more deck review things and tier lists!!!
its so funny re-watching this a year later, goblin is back in full force with sticker goblin, while human isnt as strong as it used to be still, it got some resurgence thank to the aftermath coppercoat guy and Tron is back and niv to light is sitll alive as a low tier 1 high tier 2 deck. 2 of those dead deck making an actual comeback, one struggling but still there and only 2 being dead is kinda fascinating.
I love these guys, give us some of the juicy outtakes
I think that Tron is still very playable and competitive in Modern tho, obviously not as strong as before but it can do really good
Tron is a deck that would continue to see play even if it's power level drops, because it's a lot of fun to play. That makes it a little hard to tell if its strength matches its play rate
I also notice a lot of Tron decks aren't playing red anymore which is a mistake, IMO. You really need Pyroclasm available on turn two to deal with Glistener Elf, Ragavan, Dragon's Rage Channeler, Frogmite, Patchwork Automaton, Puresteel Paladin, Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Llanowar Elves, and so on and so forth. There's this long list of turn two plays that will result in you dying on turn three or dying on turn four despite having Tron assembled (Oh you have a Wurmcoil Engine to fight off my Monastery Swiftspear? LMAO get double Lava Spike'd).
You can't play Lightning Bolt because it doesn't get around hexproof or protection from red. You can't play Warping Wail because it doesn't hit enough targets. You can't play Wrath of God because it's too slow. You can't race them with a Karn because they'll have you in range of burn spells before you exile their board. You can't play Anger of the Gods because it costs double colored mana that you won't have consistently on turn three. You can't play Dismember because you won't have the life.
The only solution for this is Pyroclasm to get you through game one against aggro decks or creature-based combo, which Pyroclasm completely BTFOs. Affinity will scoop if Arcbound Ravager isn't on the table. Burn will fizzle out. Infect will be delayed long enough for you to land a Karn or All is Dust.
Tron has always beat up decks that are good and fair, such as Jund or U/W Control. It doesn't matter if they blow up your lands because they can't win fast enough before you find another. Unfortunately, people aren't playing as many fair decks in Modern anymore.
@@nekrataali no one is playing those cards except rag and darci, and you dont auto lose to the other cards
@@nobacktalk not even Darcy, maybe to a Ragavan on the play
@@nekrataali did you time travel from 2018? Half of those cards are not played in Modern. And there's a good reason no Modern decks besides control play board wipes anymore - there are no longer any tier 1 aggro decks (only aggro control and aggro combo decks).
"Goblin Lacking" was right there!
Affinity after MH1 and Mox Opal ban lol, I think Hardened Scales endured a little longer.
Now we have new Affinity with actual Affinity cards. Though it needs Urza's Saga to last against the meta, so so much for "Budget" deck
This was what I was expecting to see.
We chose to avoid talking about decks that got cards banned in them as we figured it would be a little too obvious :)
@@CardmarketMagic good call. I found it to be more interesting to hear about decks that haven't been banned and were perfectly fine, yet still disappeared from the meta game.
@@CardmarketMagic Okay, that's a fine explanation.... except that once the early bans to the deck were in, it was a feasible deck for a long time. Ravager Affinity was a perfectly reasonable deck from basically the start of Modern and it wasn't "oh these cards in this combination are too good" that got it banned out of the format, it was cards added in Modern Horizons that broke cards it used that got it banned into non-existence. Basically I'm offended that the Horizon sets are being given a pass when those sets are responsible for 90+% of the powercreep in Modern.
I also used to play with goblins competitively back in the day, even practically won a Grand Prix qualifier with one, good times. EDH was what brought me back to playing more MtG, since I could play with my old goblin cards again 💚 Now I have 15 EDH goblin decks and counting 😵💫
15 Goblins Decks?! But.. why? :D
But... why not? 🤔
Poor decks dying to mh2
Mostly just Elementals, Urzas Saga, Ragavan, and Wrenn and Six.
it turns put printing cards into modern isn't good for the format
@@mulch8995 define good for the format
@@mattw1771 not power creeping it modern into oblivion is good for the format.
@@sjdhrjrjejdhdhsh Well damn I didn’t realize modern was in a state of oblivion I’ve been having a great time
About the Goblin Mox, I was always surprised they never made a tribal mox.
"Mox Tribal (0)
Legendary Artifact
When Mox Tribal enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
Tap : Add one mana of any color. Spend this mana only to cast spells or activate abilities of the chosen creature type."
Too broken for modern.
Also Tribal is not a gemstone so that doesn't make any sense. Every mox is based off a gemstone of sorts....
@@clocktowers1 Chrome is not a gemstone. Too late for that argument.
@@kylegonewild oh yeah lmao
@@kylegonewild It is still a tangible material at least that can be considered luxurious and or shiny... the hell is a "tribal"
My favourite deck of mine has for some time been a Brion commander deck that makes use of Kiki Jiki as a key card, has several other goblins, and I would describe its power level as a strong 6 at time of writing based on its performance on commander nights at Face to Face games in Toronto.
As a tron player back in its heyday, this is the best intro I have ever witnessed.
I want that Thoralf look on the Thumbnail to be framed lol
Love your content. I just had to watch Thoralf's match.
thanks for introducing these old decks.
I still play goblins in legacy and the deck is still a high power deck (maybe not tier 1 anymore, but tier 2). The conspicuous snoop combo with kiki-jiki does win on the turn because you make a bunch of copies with kiki-jiki active, then snoop copies boggart harbringer to put sling-gang lieutenant on top which is your sac outlet.
Addition of Muxus also really improved it's win rate and playrate. The biggest problem with goblins right now is how strong delver is (Delver used to be a great match-up for the old more control based goblin decks, but new more combo goblin decks really have a hard time against it) and the rise of Plague Engineer as a sideboard card that basically shuts the deck out singlehandedly.
The meta share of the deck also gets diluted because there's a number of different viable versions right now (Food Chain Gobbos, BR with Snoop, BR without Snoop) so they usually don't fall under the same category.
I know this is the Yugioh player who has only ever played with now quite old duel decks that make me think this way but whenever I hear tron I think of the American Yugioh Player MBT who got his name from one of his magic decks MonoBlueTron, which he has talked about being the definitevly less good but arguably more based version of Tron.
On the Snoop Combo:
Since you have Snoop and harbenger you win because the Last Kiki can Copy the harbenger to put the sling Goblin on top that hast sac a goblin: the opponent looses 1 live
I played a lot of modern before MH1 and man I would love to go back to the format where Humans was one of the best decks.
Humans was still good after MH1 (well, after some bans), it was MH2 and specifically Fury that pushed it out.
great intro!
I loved my goblins deck!!! I even had the collection of 300+ different goblins :) my favorite tribe
I, too, was/am a collector of goblins. Still have some i collected from the earlier sets before I left MTG around classic 6th edition.
@@22781dave oh man, you missed the Goblin boom of Onslaught block.
Very interesting content!
10:14 I'll have you know that Magic Aids (one of the key innovators of the Modern Humans deck) is still working on Humans, with pretty much every new set that comes out, and is (I think rightly) convinced that it will rise again, because every single set has human characters so every single set has the potential to add something strong to the archetype.
10:46 "ragavan Is .. human-annoying" AHAHAHAH
Anyway, I wasn't able to fully grasp the power of the clunky red deck, I wished a bit more of deck mechanics explanation.
Awesome video anyway! Understanding the logic behind some successful deck allows me to understand the full picture of the "clock" in which each card is a gear.
For instance, Professor of Symbology is a wonderful key piece in my Orzhov reanimator (a cheap one: < 50€): she allows card selection, fills the graveyard with reanimation targets, occasionally she's flexible with the Lessons, can be blinked with Distinguished Conjurer (tokens are offered for value/reanimation, like P.o.S., and D.C. is roughly a Soul Sister ), sacrificed for value, a Cleric (Righteous Valkyrie) and a 2 mana creature (Serra Paragon).
That's awesome!
I got the urza tron lands in jumpstart 2022 and got so excited to use them in pioneer before finding out it's all banned. It would have been glorious though.
They aren’t banned. They just aren’t legal. :)
@@skykur if only that meant I could have used them.
That was a great intro
funny sidenote: last months goblins won back 2 back the fnm at our lgs. once RG food-chain goblins and once RB kinda stock-list =D turns out that food chaining matrons into muxus wins you games. you heard it here first, time to sleeve up your goblins for legacy again!
today food chain goblins won another FNM =D
A year has passed. Tron and Legacy Goblins are back baby!
I think another good example is Grixis Death Shadow in Modern. It had a really fast rise to the top in 2017/2018 but rather quickly fell out of the meta again after being arguably the best deck in the format at one point.
It was the best deck in the format while Lurrus was legal in modern as well
so fun to watch this video after lotr, tron just needed 4 mana draw deck + protection....
Have you heard about the format called Canadian Highlander? I’m hoping to see you guys play it one day, it would be so much fun.
Madness deck garbo now pretty strong in its days ( odysee block ) wild mongrel into basking rootwalla into call of the herd worm token , the madness worm and finish with psychatog
I've got a BR Madness deck around Hollow One, Underworld Cookbook, Asmoranomardicadeistinaculdicar, Fiery Temper, Kitchen Imp, Burning Inquiry, Ox of Agonas, Basking Rootwalla, Flameblade Adept, Insolent Neonate, and Street Wraith. It hits hard and fast, and I've gotten people to scoop after turn 3-4. I'm just lacking 3 Blood Crypts, 2 Bloodstained Mires, 2 Searstep Pathway, and 2 Goblin Lore.
The goblin combo does include a sac outlet, as when you've got enough tapped snoops, you use the untapped one to make a Goblin Harbinger and put Sling-gang lieutenant on top.
Goblins still isn't good but Snoop + Goblin Harbinger is a kill without anything else in play.
Edit: I misremembered how snoop works. You either need snoop to survive a turn, or to have a haste source. You can however make infinite (tapped) snoops in your upkeep if you are about to draw Kiki.
You cannot play the combo in one turn unless you have a goblin warchief or something
Conspicuous snoop only gains activated abilities and haste is not an activated ability
if you could do it in one turn it would be a lot more threatening of a combo (at least in modern, legacy could definitely deal with it)
@@Goblin_War_Buggy Thanks. I'd misremembered "gains all activated abilities" as "gains all abilities".
@@Goblin_War_Buggy that's why you play split screen. Four activated abilities are better than one😉
You can just use Mogg Fanatic for that, no need for haste when all of your infinite tapped Snoops can sac for damage.
@@IavraPlays you need the haste in order to activate the ability Snoop gains from Kiki-Jiki on the turn you play it.
I guess Fanatic could replace Sling-gang if you wanted to (Depending on which is a more useful card in the metagame in case you draw it). However because Boggart Harbinger is a black card, this doesn't save a colour.
the grul/fires of yavimaya i template is also and example..use to be a go-to for timmies and spikes alike.. i dont know if wotc put out creatures that sucks efficiency-wise or they forgat that stratedgy exist around player bases..
12:56 There is a human selfless spirit. Jirina, Dauntless General. It shows up in pioneer humans sometimes.
Carl: "what needs to be printed to make tron t1 again?"
Wizards: "they only need one ring to rule them all!"
You guys are amazing! 😂
13:00 Speaking of, have you heard of the new Jirina, Dauntless General? Literally Selfless Spirit for Humans, but also giving hexproof and some free graveyard hate to make up for being Legendary. Magic Aids tried jamming her into the deck, and concluded that we still need a little more to revitalize the deck, but that she was definitely a great addition.
literal, me encantan estos videos, love this shit, kep going, amazing :)
13:51 Goblin Lackey seems a little Goblin Lacking! I'm sure I'm not the first to say that here. 😂
Oh yea this is another hit for a video. I played lots of Legacy / type 1.5 and man the decks we used to play lol.
As Toffel played Tron at the MC, it was the first time I was cheering for Tron
Tron got a few new toys in brothers war, with haywire mite cityscape leveller and stonebrain but its just not enough to keep up with modern at the moment.
Mono Green Tron won a massive tournament that i went to just last week
I was thinking about this recently. Nobody plays Prosp Bloom anymore and it makes me sad.
Lantern Control and Thopter Sword combo in modern. My 2 favorite modern decks lost to time
Old Lantern Control is one of my favorite decks of all time because of how it attacks on an angle I've never seen elsewhere. Losing Mox Opal made life tough enough, but with so many easy answers to / ways to win through Ensnaring Bridge, and Karn and of course Urza's Saga redefining what it means to be a prison deck, strategies like that will never be viable again.
Lol, decks I remember from back in the days:
"Miss America" UWR control with goblin trenches and Urza's wrath
"Elf opposition"
"Tooth and nails" tron
"Psychatog" UB control
...
I'm old
Does namesticker goblin count as a mox?
all i can hear in the outro music is "satin in a coffin" by modest mouse
Throwing that deck must have been so satisfying! It made quite the thunk
Tarmo and Death’s shadow decks in modern. Oh how the powercreep changed the format
Man I would love to see you guys on game knights
We would love to be on game knights 😅 we're crossing our fingers for an email from Josh like it's a letter from Hogwarts 🤞🤞
@@CardmarketMagic Heres to hoping.
I'll jsut say this I got to 6:29 by them time I felt I needed to comment this but ive never net decked, granted I've never one in a competitive setting but I still had way more fun trying to figure out my own thing than I would have net decking.
Toffel tossing the deck at the start just made me lose it. "TRON?!" *toss*
Niv to light now to atraxa to light? Thoughts?
Watching this video in the future after the one ring…. Boy oh boy how Tron has changed 😂
Tron moved to Pauper and helped get Arcum's Astrolabe, Prophetic Prism, and Bonder's Ornament banned.
I used to play Spawn Tron. You either get your Tron lands or drop out enough Nest Invaders, Brood Birthing and Kozilek's Predators until you get 4 Eldrazi Spawn, then use them to free cast Hand of Emrakul or to ramp up to Ulamog's Crusher. Banning the eggs killed my deck, unless I want to drop $20 for a playset of Chromatic Star. I know Chris Cox would love that, it's probably why Prophetic Prism really got banned. Too efficient for a 35 cent card.
Tbf, Tron did get Karn, the Great Creator, but that's nothing compared to the support that Izzet decks got in the time since. I'd say you'd need to get a good spaghetti monster or two that are powerful and undercosted as well as good colorless targeted removal to make it happen.
I remember when goblins was the best deck in modern, I made a mono black control deck with every black boatdwipe I had and phyrexian obliterator as a win con because you couldn't kill the thing without wiping out half of your board
I'm old enough to remember running 4 force of wills to deal with prosperous bloom.
Btw humans might want to run selfless glyphweaver, one more than selfless spirit but still a human (also callback maybe?)
Shiny Mox - {0}
Artifact
{T}: Add {R}, then flip a coin. If tails, an opponent of your choice gains control of Shiny Mox.
Why spend time guarding artifacts when you can just steal them back?
Goblins are in a weird place but not bad would definitely say they are better in modern. They have so many tools and the deck is super consistent unlike humans you move through your deck really fast.
I would love a 1 mana goblin like that elemental tho would be so cool.
pleasseeee, do a video about fun but competitive human decks (boros)
I played legacy like 15 years ago, and ran into that goblin deck all the time. I played a prison deck that ran absurd amounts of creature removal, and goblins was still fast enough to just run me over a decent amount of the time. Beep beep, 11/2 Goblin Piledriver coming through!
I remember when UR Faeries was the best deck in Pauper. The deck was synergistic, powerful, and had game against pretty much everything. Nowadays everything else just draws more cards than you and it's better to just go Mono U and maximize your nut draws
Don't forget that fairies in pauper also got numerous bans! Which was a good thing, because the archetype was too oppressive (despite being oodles of fun to play)
I thought you guys would mention the death of mono-white initiative or izzet delver if your talking about the legacy metagame.
We didn't want to talk about decks that got banned (as it's a little obvious). We were focusing here on archetypes that you can still play, but shouldn't :)
Toffel asks for a human selfless spirit and gets it! Jirina, Dauntless General incoming. Let’s see if it was the missing piece as he predicted
Well, Niv is starting to see some more attention again. It hasn't risen but I guess a bit of a "pat on the back" as protection from mono-colored w/ allowing for reuse of spells was definitely a positive for the deck. Still plagued by the slowness factor some but it can at least have some finishes now which is nice.
If i order on Card Market does it ship as 1 package?
Ordering from seperate sellers on Cardmarket will result in multiple shipments - however you can use wants-lists to find single sellers that have as many cards of the wants-list as possible.
"Tell me about the glory days of Humans" got me giggling.
The mox for goblins should be the Brightstone Mox.
To a Eldrazi Tron player like me....this hurt...
so good channel:🙂
Mono G tron is still good tho! Definitely dependant on meta but I literally lost to tron in finals of an RCQ last month lol
Tron can always getcha, but the deck is way worse than it used to be.
I play a lot of Jund, and the matchup used to be nearly unbeatable, with the main plan being the recur Fulminator Mage with Kolaghan’s command and just hope they don’t have it on turn 3 on the play. Nowadays we play a Ragavan and start looping Boseiju with Wrenn and Six- I’m not sure if the matchup is all the way favorable now, but it’s just not something the midrange decks fear like that anymore
@@faseel4392 as a Tron player that matchup is majority in your favor. Like i can get some jund players if they play dumb or misplay hard or hell even think no matter what they win. But majority of the time i just get my ass handed to me. I've been playing tron for years because I'm a monster and i love being a monster but anymore there's always something bigger and scarier then me and that's fine i had my fun in the sun and it will come again.
@@faseel4392 that’s definitely true! to be fair I started playing magic right around the release of MH2 so I never knew tron in the “before times.” It’s still always seemed like a viable deck to me tho and one that’s gotten me a couple times lol
Can't believe you missed the
"Goblin Lackey is Goblin Lacking"
Pun
I just won a 30 person game day with Niv to Light in pioneer. That deck is not a huge meta player, but it is still very good.
Would unbanning Goblin Recruiter make Legacy viable but still fair within the meta game, or would it become oppressive?
Goblins need a good 2 drop that's like kitesail freebooter
And also something to deal with murktide
2:41 All the modern horizons 2 cards that were broken
Blue: counterspell
Blue in a nutshell
I'm sure someone has pointed this out but Goblin Recruiter is indeed a card that exists and is in fact banned in Legacy
11:00 no no! lets give credit to the right person the deck was created by the youtuber "magic aids"