Triumph by Sea, Tragedy by Land - Supplying Guadalcanal - WW2 Special
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- čas přidán 17. 01. 2022
- Tens of thousands of Japanese soldiers were fighting over the jungles and beaches of Guadalcanal. To supply them with food, ammunition and medicine, the Japanese Navy had to resort to a series of daring supply runs - nicknamed the “Tokyo Express”. In the face of overwhelming American air superiority, the Tokyo Express had to find a tactic to overcome their enemy’s advantage, or it would doom its soldiers stranded on the island.
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The Tokyo Express has been supplying Japanese troops in the Pacific for months now. It is truly one of the most impressive feats of logistics seen in the history of warfare so far. Logistics have always been a part of war, and many have contributed to the modernisation of the field. Who did more to modernise logistics: Napoleon or Tanaka?
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I'm going to go with Napoleon. I remember it being noted somewhere that he really innovated in logistics at the time.
I must have missed it.
Did the Japanese have a an operational name for "The Tokyo express"?
Difficult question. Napoleon has been called a logistical genius, but that is from only one campaign. More often his armies behaved like locusts and lived primarily off of the land even from his early campaigns in Italy and the invasion of Russia in 1812 was complicated by bad decisions (to continue past his lines of supply) on Napoleon's part. Generals who excelled at logistics? My vote goes to Ulysses S. Grant. He was a master of logistics. As was Julius Caesar. A whole chapter of his Commentaries was devoted to how he solved his logistics problems in Gaul.
@@Conn30Mtenor I am not sure if this was from Caesar but the standard op was to establish depos every twenty miles along a route.
@@Conn30Mtenor Grant is a pretty good choice for a master of logistics, yeah.
"Tactics win battles. Logistics win wars."
General John J. Pershing
Germans freezing to death in Stalingrad: I sure do wish to be somewhere warmer.
Japanese sweating to death on Guadalcanal: i sure do wish to somewhere colder.
Both: I sure wish we had some food.
Both; "i sure wish we hadn't invaded/bombed USSR/USA".
Italy getting their asses kicked in Greece: I sure wish we hadn't invaded Greece
@@terrypennington2519 We had already invaded Greece and conquered it when it counted.
Both : "i sure do wish i have some food"
You can tell that some footage is from before June 1942 because the Americans removed the red circle inside the star in May 1942 to avoid friendly fire incidents caused by confusing the insignia with the Japanese hinomaru signs
Love comments like these. Always amazes me how many little details the fans notice
]
@@WorldWarTwo Thanks, I only noticed because I've recently started building WW2 model planes cause of the pandemic
@@yourstruly4817 Legend Please tell me You built a FW190 Dora
@@cheriefsadeksadek2108 Not yet, I'm about to build a FW-190-G and a Sunderland Flying Boat, my granduncle flew the former when he was shot down by the latter
@@yourstruly4817 His Focke Wulf got shot down by the Sunderland's turrets?
In America we're always told about how frustrating the Toyko Express was for the US Navy, but it seems from the Japanese side the Allies would have won the war sooner had the Japanese kept trying to resupply Guadalcanal.
I'm sure for the people involved in supporting the American troops on the island ending the fighting there as soon as possible was the objective, not dragging it out to achieve strategic aims
@@WorldWarTwo It also shows how strategic logistics is in the grand scheme of things.
Perhaps these lessons were the reason for so much emphasis on the Ho Chi Min trail during Vietnam.
The Japanese knew this. This was their Verdun. So they withdrew.
When the war ended and POW high ranking officers were interviewed, they were asked when they knew the war was lost.
They said Guadalcanal.
@@shawnr771 War in the Pacific = Logistics in the Pacific.
After doing many Tokyo Express runs, knowing the costs Japan suffered for Guadalcanal, RAdm Tanaka tried to bring up that the campaign for the island was a black hole of men, ships, resources.
Tanaka got sacked for saying that. The IJN's most battle experienced admiral fighting against the Allies was relieved of command and sent to a desk job in BURMA for the remainder of the war, to never have a command of his own ever again. That punishment very likely saved Tanaka's life by not having to participate in the many awful sorties the IJN would organize as the war progressed.
Still, not long after Tanaka got sacked, high leadership in Japan concurred, and that's how the operation to evacuate Japanese forces from Guadalcanal started.
The Guadalcanal paradox
Air attacks by Henderson Field prevents heavy equipment to be landed by the Japanese. To enable that, the Japanese would have to capture Henderson Field. But they can't capture Henderson Field, because they lack the heavy equipment, that isn't getting to them, because of the air attacks.
Less a paradox, more of a catch-22. But well said.
This is why the idea Guadalcanal shows surface ships trumped airpower because of night conditions (on the false premise the Japanese successfully eliminated American airpower by operating at night) is nonsense. The fact airpower restricted the IJN to operating at night (with the exception of Japanese carriers) massively restricted them and resulted in them losing. If anything, this whole campaign is a good example of why airpower dominates naval power even if regularly occurring conditions allow surface ships to operate within range of enemy air cover.
@@bkjeong4302 it’s not that one sided though. Your view completely ignores the contribution of the USN, which was at least comparable to the IJN, especially after midway. The air power at guadal canal is the factor that tipped the balance, the straw that broke the camels back. Without the USN presence the guadal canal would’ve been lost.
@@artruisjoew5473
The USN did contest the IJN at night for sea control, but airpower (both from Henderson Field and from American carriers) dominated the overall strategic situation.
@@bkjeong4302 I'd beg to differ. Why did the Japanese use destroyers at night for resupply? Why did the Japanese destroyers sail at top speed in order to drop off supplies and high tail it out of Iron Bottom Sound? Clearly they were scared of something at night.
This special reminds me of my Great-great Grandfather. He also fought in the Pacific, though not in this war: he was one of the thousands of Spanish soldiers that fought in the Philippines during the Spanish-American war of 1898. He would tell his grandchildren (my grandma and her siblings) about the "adventures" he had there. The jungles were treacherous, the food was scarce (and not very varied) and there were more casualties from Beri-Beri than from combat (overall, for each combat casualty for the Spanish army, they were 10 casualties due to illness in that war). They say that war never changes, and it seems that war in the jungle doubly so.
The Jungle Warfare in Southeast Asia during the war sounded equally as horrific as well.
And in New Guinea as well.
@Podemos URSS Very interesting, thank you for sharing that part of your family's history. Even things that seem quite distant are closer than we think, like the Spanish-American war. Never forget
And the irony of the story is if the USA not go to that war against Spain, they don't have the Philippines, that mean they don't have military base in that region, which mean less chance that japan would start a war against them when they go south, and if japan not attack, Pearl Harbor maybe not happen, and if USA not enter to the war because any other reasons, that mean Guadalcanal not happen too.
I know it's just a big what if, but it's clear, that what happened in history show us, one war lead to another one.
@@StArShIpEnTeRpRiSe So on your what if comment I'll add to that in many ways below because the story of how the US got the Philippines and why is forgotten by almost everyone it seems.
So after the Spanish American War the US public and the President then (President William McKinley ) did not want the US to take the Philippines on as a colony. This was because the US public (and many in leadership) felt the US would be being hypocritical in taking the Philippines as a colony since the US from it establishment until the last forced colonies were let go after WW2 was constantly preaching to other nations that they should not force people to be colonies of a master nation. And so because of this President McKinley told his diplomats sent to France to negotiate the peace with Spain to not take the Philippines on as a US colony which they acknowledged. But then when in Paris negotiating the peace the British representatives convinced the US representatives to take the Philippines. The British were able to do this by explaining to the Americans that if the US did not take the Philippines on as a colony the Philippines would not remain free. If the US did not take the Philippines Germany would quickly take the islands as they had been trying to get the islands from Spain for about a decade by this point. The Germans even tried to get involved in the American-Spanish war to get the Philippines for themselves. So the British explained if the US didn't take the Philippines the Germans would take the islands or the British themselves would take the islands just to prevent Germany from getting them. They also explained that the Russians and Japanese would be eager to take the Philippines as well if the US didn't take the islands. So the Americans ended up taking the islands to prevent other nations from getting them. The US had plans from the start of taking the islands to free them once they could defend themselves. That is what eventually led to the ending of the American-Filipino war. The Filipino's at the start of the war of course didn't believe they would be freed "eventually" as the Americans were telling them. But the American actions right from taking the islands eventually caused most Filipino's to believe the Americans in that they would be freed once they could defend themselves. This was because the US didn't have any economic or resource reason to have the Philippines or any nation as a colony of the US since the US had everything it needed within it's own nation. So the US was not taking from the Philippines as the Spanish were which lead to a better life for most Filipinos which lead to them believing the Americans were actually just holding the Philippines to prevent another nation from taking the islands.
So that is what actually happened in real life. But as for your "what if" comment, if the US didn't take the Philippines or if the Spanish American war never happened (less likely on the second option, that war was eventually going to happen for many reasons) then the Spanish would still not have the islands during WW2. I would bet the Germans would have the islands if the Spanish or Americans didn't have them until WW1. After WW1 and the Germans lose all their colonies then the islands would probably go to the Japanese I bet since the Japanese took all the other German colonies in South East Asia other then in New Guinee. The other option would be if the British took the Philippines from the Spanish prior to the Germans taking them just to prevent the Germans from taking the islands. I could see that as well but less likely so then the Germans taking the islands and then losing them in WW1. Because the Germans did have a strong want to take the Philippines until the US ended up taking them after the Spanish American war.
@@PhillyPhanVinny Colonialism, by whatever name and by whoever it is done by, turns out to be a mess in the end. It makes some very rich people richer but costs many ordinary people their lives. The military-industrial complex in the 1890s?
It is the history of the world.
You guys really show the seriousness and logistics when it came to ww2, bravo Indy and team.
If your war is quick and fast, logistics don't matter so much (Poland, France, Balkans, Malaya, Singapore, etc) but once it becomes a slugfest...you better have that all figured out. I completely agree with your comment that this series really shows the power of the quartermaster.
Logistics is also why no sane leader wanted to bring the US into an extended war. Across the oceans were fields that could not be burned, factories that could not be bombed, mines that could not be destroyed, shipyards that could not be shattered, cities that could not be sieged, and a people that could not be attacked, let alone broken.
It's almost frightening to think that even by 1945, the US' industrial and agricultural output still had *not* been tapped out, or even really strained. It was, in fact, still spinning up to what projected "Full War Output" could achieve.
The logistics of WWII is some of my favourite parts of the series Im glad you like it too.
@@evanulven8249 Totally agree. I'm sure there were some factory managers in 1945 saying "Uhhhhh...but, but, but, we're just ramping up!"
My grandfather’s brother (Australian) said that one of their favorite tactics was to punch holes in tins of bully beef, leave the contents to rot for about a week, then leave piles of the stuff in the New Guinea jungle where they knew the Japanese would find and eat it out of desperation. Botulism killed more of the enemy than bullets, he reckoned.
Didn't they know that chemical warfare was ourlawed in 1925? Crime against humanity.
@@BangFarang1 not chemical warfare to leave spoiled food lying around, chief.
Botulism is caused by an anaerobic bacteria. Poking a hole in a can won't work uinles it's an microscopic hole that doesn't allow any oxygen in They probably got food poisoning, but it wasn't botulism.
@@scottydog1313 any hole that bacteria can enter so can oxygen, but yeah at most that mighty war hero gave some Japanese lads the squirts
@@scottydog1313 yeah food poisoning.
But truth to be told, it is still an absolutely brutal way to kill.
Imagine you are starving and some madman has had that kind of crazy idea to give you food poisoning.
Maybe he even messed around with it and smeared some shit on it to give you dysentry.
A bullet would be mercifull...
I love my logistics in war. From Carthage to the Falklands, it is fascinating how people can move hundreds of thousands of tonnes of food across the world.
It's fun to compare the Roman logistics system to e.g. the Spartans. Romans could supply an army in Spain or by the Rhine. Spartans ran out food during the Peleponnesian war, 140 miles from their supply base.
@@Valdagast they're Spartans, not Smartans
'Amateurs talk strategy. Professionals talk logistics'
(Omar Bradley)
the line between order and disorder lies in logistics - sun tzu
@@WorldWarTwo Very underrated line from the Art of War.
The fact that the Japanese had to supply their forces on Guadalcanal using submarines, destroyers and oil drums illustrates the fact that by the end of 1942 they had lost their war against the US. Although, they were able to keep on fighting for another two and a half years. The end was preordained. The Japanese, unlike the Americans, were incapable of waging a war of attrition against a foe that was economically ten times their size. In this respect, it is interesting to note that Isoroku Yamamoto, commander in chief of the IJN, was quite aware of this fact before Japan recklessly plunged into war with the US. He realized that if the war against the US devolved to long term slugging mach Japan would loose. With Japan's failure to win a short sharp war, Yamamoto's dire prediction would prove to be a self fulfilling prophecy.
Yamamoto called it very accurately... "In the first six to twelve months of a war with the United States and Great Britain I will run wild and win victory upon victory. But then, if the war continues after that, I have no expectation of success."
One of my great-uncles was a Marine truck driver on Guadalcanal. My grandma said that when he got home from the war, he told the family "Ask me any question you have now, but I don't ever want to talk about it again after today." These episodes have enlightened me so much on what he must have gone through during his time in that theatre of war. I inherited his unit picture from basic training when my grandma passed away two years ago. I often wonder what became of all of the other young Marines in that photo from late 1940. Thank you for producing such great historical content. I am proud to support your efforts.
Thanks for sharing your family's story, hearing all the stories people tell about their loved ones and how the war affected them is a real privilege for us at TimeGhost. They also show that the ways in which people coped with their experiences -- how and when they talked about it, or simply didn't talk about it -- is just as varied as the people who participated in the war. Thanks for your support Lou, we appreciate it.
I wish Indy and Drach would collaborate.
That would be awesome
OH YES PLEASE! 😍
A bit late to cover Guadalcanal, but I'm sure they would still have much to discuss with the rest of the war.
"Indy Neidell here with 'The Five Minute (More or less) Guide to 'Island Hopping." Today's "C-Ration is about Atabrine." Time Ghost presents "R&R: focusing on the arrival of other Allied forces in England, The Western Desert, and Australia." Time Ghost presents "V-Mail: Letters to and from the Combat Zone."
@@Otokichi786 You forgot that the five minutes last atleast an hour
I must complement your series. Your ability to convey tragic conditions of war gives me perspective.
One of my favourite parts about working on this series is the ability to show what war is really like. Playing the video games and watching the movies often gives us a romanticized and skewed perspective on how horrible war really is.
the Battle of Guadalcanal, is the battle that got me hooked on WW2. Stalingrad and Battle of the Bulge-solidified my interest. I cannot ever get enough of these three battles. Well done here.
Im American so therefore I love the Battle of the Bulge as well but it honestly doesn’t hold up to the battles in the East
You should check out TIK's Stalingrad series then!
have you seen HBO's the pacific? the depiction of Guadalcanal and the pacific campaign as a whole is gut wrenching
@@WorldWarTwo I was a peacekeeper there 20 years ago with the Australian army. When you flew over Henderson in helo's you could still see the huge craters from Naval and air bombardments in the fields surrounding. Around galloping horse and Austen, there were still barbed wire entanglements and foxholes, grenade pins and shell fragments all over the shop. Never mind the human remains, tanks, landing craft wrecks. A lot of it is still there in 2022. It's worth a visit. The Japanese consulate to this day conducts Shintu rites etc to commemorate their war dead, who are found from time to time in the bush.
And I can confirm that patrolling in the jungle drains the life out of you. It sucked all kinds of arse. And I was well fed.
Another of the 1000s of examples of Hirohito knowing everything that was going on during the War.
In recent decades, we have talked a lot about “war for oil.” But World War II was also, in a real sense, a war for oil. Both Germany and Japan lacked the fuel they needed for the military power and the industrial might they desired. Both tried to solve that problem by conquering territories that had those resources. Neither achieved that objective, and without oil, they could no longer defeat Allied forces.
Of course, they were also fighting for other resources, such as iron ore and rubber. But oil was king in that war.
Japan also attacked the US because the US cut off its oil supply
The Axis thought they would quickly occupy territories that contained the resources they needed, and then they would sue for peace. Hitler thought the UK would go down as easily as France, and that the Russians would welcome them as liberators from Stalin's iron grip. The Japanese thought that by the time they drew the U.S. into the war their positions would be unassailable. I think that many in Berlin and Tokyo knew their plans were doomed far sooner than we realize.
@@kchall5 ...and Japan didn't want to trade for oil because it would have meant giving up its China ambitions and occupation.
The war in Afghanistan was logistically an air supply line; No ports. How much fuel did that require? Viet Nam, How much was Air freight? American military doesn't arrive on ships. How much fuel does that take?
Wierd isn't it. Both countries have thrived since WW2, but still without oil. Can't have been as important as it then seemed.
Fun Fact: After the defeat at Guadalcanal someone in the Japanese Military brought up the idea for Kamikaze's in order to retaliate against the American forces. But at the time it was rejected as too defeatist. Of course we all know that it was reconsidered later on.
Thats pretty interesting I have never heard that before. Can you remember the source for me?
@@WorldWarTwo---It was a brief mention on the History Channel's series about Dogfights. They dedicated one episode to Kamikaze's and mentioned the earlies when they were thought of. The History Channel had a CZcams channel and that episode is on the channel right now. Hope you find it. The episode also talks about the fight the USS Laffy had with 50 Kamikaze's it was very dramatic. Good luck.
@@brokenbridge6316 Call me cynical but I don't think the History Channel counts as a source.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214---And I was just telling them where I heard this. I don't care if it's called a source or not.
I saw one analysis that said the kamikaze attacks actually made perfect military sense. At the point in the war when they were introduced American advances in AA proximity fuses, fighter design, radar, and combat information centers meant that a Japanese air attack using traditional methods was going to lose about as many planes and pilots as a kamikaze attack but the kamikazes would achieve more hits.
A great follow up to this video is Drachinifel's "Guadalcanal Campaign - Operation Ke & Rennell Island, The Finale: (IJN 6(?) : 5 USN)"
"The Tojo Express" is still alive, but it's uncertain for so long will be alive Tojo himself.
This is an important episode because it shows how much wars are won or lost not by cool fighter planes or ships, but by the ability to land supplies to troops in the field. Awesome job.
If you don’t have food and water, nothing else is important.
War is a contest between supply trains as much as between weapons.
my father was with the
americal division that
reinforced the marines.
your program is so
illuminating,he's not here anymore,but I know
he would find this
absolutely compelling,
even healing, as to understanding the wider
scope. thanks indy!
You're welcome. It's always interesting to wonder how much soldiers on the ground had the time or inclination to think about the wider war going on around them, I suppose it probably came down to the individual a lot. Glad to hear that you think this would of been of interest to your father.
@@WorldWarTwo thanks for replying, I
don't think many of them did as that trauma
was deeply repressed.
late in life the old man said it was the best time
of his life. his commander wrote a book, "the americal division" . camp Edwards on cape cod
played a big part in these mens lives,so did
the journey to the soloomons,the jungle
itself,and also returning
with little fanfare. so
many aspects! thanks
again!
I hope that however the people who went through it all chose to deal with it worked for them, I can only imagine how far away from the rest of the world those men must have felt stuck out on Guadalcanal. Thanks for sharing
I’m Nisei and my great grandfather served in the Japanese Navy. I was told he died near Guadalcanal.
@H.M. Thank you for sharing a bit of your family's history. May he rest in peace.
I recently finished Neptune's Inferno.
A lot of the Japanese Destroyers really disliked doing the supply runs.
They rather be fighting USN surface forces.
If they only had the T1 Landing Ship before the war.
An episode on the War on Humanity should cover the absolute callous disregard of the leaders of the Japanese for their soldiers and sailors. They put them in untenable situations and then let them die, but only after reminding them that surrender is dishonorable.
They also need an episode on the Gulags during the war. How were the slaves treated and how were they replaced ? Did the NKVD have a target for "slave replacement" .... Or did conditions in the camps ease to reduce deaths and keen inmates alive longer ?
The gulag system during the war sounds like a good idea for an Out Of The Foxholes question as well if anyone wants to ask it in the forums. But both of these ideas have been noted 😉
For those interested, listen to Dan Carlin’s multi hour podcast Hard Core History on Supernova in the East. He goes into the history that led to the WW 2 concept of bushido and no surrender, the drive to be seen as a great power that led to incursions in China, and the brutality injected into the Japanese fighting man. It is well done and sobering.
With Japanese troops suffering death by malnutrition and disease for lack of food and basic medical care, it is less surprising to deal with the Japanese being callous towards Allied POWs suffering the same. Seeing this vid lessens the mystery of how could a nation do that. I'm not at all saying it justifies the actions of the Japanese, but it does lead to some comprehension of their thinking.
It is often impressive to see how the Japanese were somehow able to keep logistics going as best as possible despite the tremendous difficulties. Great video there!
But that was the point: They were unable, in the end, "to keep logistics going as best as possible." 1. Supplies, once they got near to Guadalcanal, could only be tossed overboard in fuel drums with prayers to the gods that those supplies would wash ashore -- and most drums never made it. 2. Those meager supplies could not include anything heavy, such as artillery, needed to push the Americans out of Henderson Field -- rationed rifle and machine gun bullets and bushido spirit could not win against U.S. artillery and mortar fire, aerial bombing and strafing, and massed, raw firepower of the U.S. Marines and later U.S. soldiers. 3. The Japanese navy could not afford to keep losing warships and aircraft at the rate they were losing them -- the Americans could. 4. The supply ships that had been lost could not be replaced (unlike the company Bechtel where I later worked that formed a temporary corporation, Calships, which alone launched 467 in exactly four years during the war) and were needed to transport raw materials back to Japan. 5. Fuel oil supplies for the warships and cargo ships were also consumed at an alarming rate -- one key reason for the Pearl Harbor attack in the first place. That's why the island itself was a far worse enemy for the Japanese army than were the U.S. Marines (which were bad enough!). This was a case of logistics going from bad to worse, not best. Impressive, maybe. Smart, no. Suicidal, yes. Successful U.S. logistics -- in the face of tremendous difficulties -- played a key role in the American victory here.
But... they effectively didn't manage to keep logistics going.
The only impressive feat was the withdrawal.
Supply lines is also outright the single greatest power in the US military's capabilities. Even in WW2 the US could send ludicrous amounts of supplies and fuel right up to the front lines. Fast forward 80 years, and American logistics support is a thing of legend. That more than anything else is what makes the US a global superpower, and in WW2 probably did even more to win the war than American combat forces. The Brits and the Soviets were perfectly capable combat forces that did their duties as well as could be asked by their leaders. All they really lacked was the mind-numbing supply firehose the US could set up and maintain with ease.
Amazing video, as always.
Really shows the importance of beans, bullets, and bandaids. Logistics isnt usually seen as heroic, or glorious work; but damn, lack of supplies will turn any army into a walking graveyard.
"Laymen study tactics, novices study strategy and professionals study logistics."
Disruption of enemy supply is lesson #1 in Advanced Warfare.
It is said that when Blackbeard the Pirate blockaded Charleston Harbor.
His ransom to quit the blockade was a chest of medicine.
Looking out for his troops.
@Hashashin Thank you for watching. Our audience truly is the best on CZcams, y'all bring a level of depth and discussion to our community that we're very grateful for. Never forget
Great presentation.
Interesting stuff!!
Love your work
Thanks for posting
This is better then school
Duh *than 😉
Ikr Indy is the best history teacher you could ask for.
School teaches you when to use "than" rather than "then".
Indy's wwI and wwII series got me an A in my University history classes xD
Great episode. Don't know why, but I feel like your presentation of the many facets of the Pacific Theater are the best. I find them revelatory...and riveting.
Thanks Terry!
My dad fought on New Georgia, Guadalcanal, and Bougainville. I'd like to see an episode covering the Battle of Hill 700. I think you have the accuity.
I'm sure it will get some coverage when the time comes
"the food didn't get through, but here's more soldiers" : D
"Please share your food with the reinforcements"
Sometimes i think about the individuel soldier and how they must have felt during these times
I dont know how any human could possible stay mentaly sane during al this and sometimes i need to stop watching because i cant stop my tears of compassion for these people
The horror of this war reaches everywhere, whether you are on the front line or behind it, in Europe or on an island in the Pacific. Let us never forget
Don't show any sympathy for the Japanese soldiers, they showed none for anyone else.
@@grahamtaylor6883 This. Those savages caused untold harm on the civilians of the conquered empire. Mark Felton released a piece about Dutch Sex Slaves. Heart breaking stories.
They probably did not stay sane.
How or if the Japanese has dealt with it will be interesting to hear about later.
Of all people, even Arnold S, has told about the broken men in Austria.
@@thilgu I like Marks channel, but I haven't seen that one. I'll go and watch it, but I can imagine what it will contain. Conquering a place is one thing, but the extra layer of evil they added for no absolutely no reason is beyond comprehension. The Nazi's weren't much different either.
I love your attention to detail. You present riveting stuff. Thank you.
Thanks and you're welcome
Very well done. The use of limited precious fuel is a new revelation for me.
Thanks Will!
I am thinking Yamamoto should inspect some forward bases to get a better picture of the situation.
Good idea! After all, what could possibly go wrong?
@@schroedingersdog7965 HAHAHAHA! Just about choked on this one!!
ok, I will radio ahead.
@@Erik-ko6lh Are you nuts?! What if the enemy picked up the radio signal?
@@principalityofbelka6310 don't worry, the Imperial Navy code cyphers are unbreakable....
What isn't being mentioned, the Marines were in almost as bad a shape. Their supply ships had pulled out with the supplies still on board. So, the US Navy was running pretty much the same supply runs from the other direction with the same problems. What kept the Marines alive was literally a mountain of rice that had been captured in the first days of the battle.
General Vandergrift documented this in his reports on the Guadalcanal campaign "Day by day I watched my Marines deteriorate in the flesh...lean Marines are better than fat Marines, but these troops were becoming too lean."
The book Helmet for my Pillow has a very descriptive narrative of the dank environment that was Guadalcanal, and that environment was equally unfriendly to both Allied and Japanese forces.
Yeah, I'd like to see some description of how the Americans were supplied and the successes/failures of that.
The fact that Japanese logistic efforts are exhausted by that has to be no more than 3% of the USA's war production, should have told them everything they needed to know about how disastrous this war was going to go. The USA is overwhelming their ability to cope using the meagerest amount of its effort.
Actually, earlier on when they won a tremendous victory but fired the commander in charge for using too much ammo to do it, that should have been a huge warning flag that they'd gotten well in over their head.
Without bringing forward six carriers, there was no way they were going to achieve air superiority. Without air superiority, there was no way they were going to achieve naval superiority. Without naval superiority, there was no way they were going to hold an island. Frittering away their advantage with piece meal half measures is the whole story of the Japanese Navy between Pearl Harbor and Midway. If they'd waited to reform the full Kido Butai and treated it like the line of battle fleet that it was...
very nice layout indie thanks
Fantastic retrospective, guys. Videos like this one are why I enlisted in the TG Army.
Thanks for your support @Tris Blackshaw we hope you keep enjoying!
It seems to me as as a classical schooled cultural anthropologist with a life long hobby studying war tactics, that WW2, had a strategic underpinning of the need for fuel that knee-capped most Axis offensives. Bot Germany and Japan gambled to get the oil before they had it. I am sure I will later find some epic war book from an erudite source who will explain this in detail.
Thanks for the special treat today ☺️
Thank you for watching
One of the best episodes ever!
Thanks Sean
A decent Sushi bar might have prevented this tragedy...
Great presentation.
Thanks Shaker7!
I think there is something wrong with the displaying of supply drums delivered at both 7:24 and 7:45. The run on 3 Decemeber shows 15.000 drums delivered instead of 1.500. And the run on 12 December shows 12.000 instead of 1.200, but then correctly shows the 220 that landed on the island.
I already thought to myself:
Hmm, 220 out of 1200 is about 1/6, so slightly less than 20%.
But if you look at the reduction on screen, it's MUCH more that's cut off than just 80%
I had that thought too. It must be an error. Like the comment so we can get it fixed/notified.
We made a mistake with the graphics but it is being fixed as we speak
Some said they were paying for Bataan with a taste of their own medicine.
Thanks!
@Leo g Thank you for watching
very good always
Hi Indy
Another interesting special..
These special episodes keep us informed about secpnd world war..
Awaiting more..
Thanks..
You're welcome Naveen, glad you're enjoying the videos
Yoooo i love this show i will rewatch these forever!!!! Go Indy!
That quote at the end.....
this channel should / could be a college course.... always an education.....
We always aim to educate, as well as entertain! If you haven't already consider joining the TimeGhost army or supporting us at bit.ly/SPECIAL_076_CO if you want to help us keep making more and better content 🙂
Thank you so much. I have been studying a lot about Guadalcanal Recently your video is extremely informative and very well done. Why am I so fascinated by war which is so stupid, wasteful, chock full of woe and pain?
Thank you, really appreciate your comment!
-TimeGhost Ambassador
Conrad!
Great episode. The ending reminded me of "Between 2 Wars" and how great of s series that was. Will we be getting a season 3 of "Between 2 Wars" this year ? I am pretty sure season 2 of "Between 2 Wars" finished but I actually can't remember at the moment.
I saw the the thin red line , but you did a much better job of explaining this
That was the best depiction of the strategic situation and importance of the Guadalcanal campaign I've ever seen. The hype of Guadalcanal was never fully understood by me. Although it had a status approaching legendary in my readings, this brought into focus why both sides deemed it such an important location to devote such critical resources. The American side has had much coverage, but you've shown how the Japanese loss here was so devastating. Were they stubborn, or did they realize that if the tide turned here it could never be stopped.
Thanks! It's not really the case that the Japanese were stubbornly holding on to a losing battle. It is only over the course of the Guadalcanal campaign, as air and naval superiority in the area was well and truly lost and the army on the island forced on to the defensive, that the Japanese position on the island has become untenable. Had they succeeded early on in retaking Henderson Field, or the naval war around the island gone decisively in Japan's favour, the situation might be different, the sacrifices would have been worth it and it might be the Americans scrambling for a way to withdraw. It's only with the benefit hindsight that the Japanese military's decision to send so many troops to the island to ultimately starve seems so foolish
There is no glory in war, only suffering
True words.
Kursk, but on the sea.
not quite the turning point of stalingrad (midway), but a forever loss of inititive for the axis.
in the RTS games, people usually would gg after this.
The Japanese and the Germans do have Fantasy's gg timing. ;-)
@@poiuyt975 I know, when the game has stopped and the other players have already left the game, made dinner, finished cleaning their rooms. Those 2 losers (TOJO and F**KFACE) are still smashing their keyboards, or typing ALL CAP something about "Steiner's counterattack". History is weird yo.
@@ylstorage7085 Hilarious until you consider how this action effectively sentences millions of people to death just so they can save face.
I just finished the book “Midnight in the Pacific” by Joseph Wheelan which was a fairly detailed account of the Guadalcanal campaign, start to finish. Can’t recommend it enough.
Thank you for the recommendation. Stay tuned for more
Small note: "Feet on their wounds" sounds like a switch-up, maybe add a subtitle-correction if you care.
Fixed! Thanks!
The Japanese called the Tokyo Express "Rat Transportation".
Any chance you guys will cover the Aleutian Islands campaign? People often forget the Japanese got as far as the outliers of Alaskan territory and how U.S. high command was in a panic the Japanese were going to attempt a land invasion from there, which is why by late 43 I believe the U.S. sent a massive fleet to clear the islands alongside the Canadians (was it the Canadians? I think it was!)
I think they did cover the start but not sure if they'll go back to it as they did talk about the ultimate fate of the inhabitants
Yes, it was the Canadians, who did themselves credit by soundly defeating their opponent.
Which needs further explaining as the Japanese had left Kiska two weeks before the landings. In heavy fog, a fair amount of fratricide took place amongst allied troops, with the Canadians being the "winner" of the fighting.
One of the units that was sent was an all volunteer joint Canadian US group known as the First Special Services Force.
They come into play later during the Italian Campaign.
AKA as The Devil's Brigade.
Dont watch the movie of the same name.
This unit is the direct forerunner of both the US and Canadian Special Forces.
Note the similarities of their unit patches.
To all our Canadian friends.
Thank you.
Nailed it
Thanks Nick. If you haven't already consider joining the TimeGhost army or supporting us at bit.ly/SPECIAL_076_CO if you want to help us keep making more and better content 🙂
Made three attempts, will try again later. Apologies for not including link.
1900-1945
Central Bank Gold Reserves - New World Economics
Japanese 1: We need more food, fuel, and equipment for Guadalcanal! What will we do about this?
Japanese 2: Hmm, I here USA production is high and getting higher every day. Maybe we could ask---
Japanese 1: /YOU FREAKING NUMSKULL!! /
I appreciate episodes like this that analyze logistics. This aspect of military history is all too often marginalized.
Ill stop complaining about 6 months or MREs. They had to post guards on the food drop to stop all the ‘good’ ones from disappearing first.
Code breaking won the war.
What a hard memory by the end of the episode. Goes to show the reality of war. Never forget.
@StrangerOman Thank you for watching, we appreciate your support
@@WorldWarTwo I really wish I could do more than just leaving comments from time to time. Like becoming a TimeGhost Army member. But I can't. :c
@StrangerOman Leaving comments, liking videos and subscribing to the channel does a lot to help us on youtube, it means the algorithm will show our content to even more people so it is still a great way to support us
Don't worry, Steiner's counterattack will set everything right.
true true.
Catch-22? I've never heard that expression before! Not even now, in 1943.
😉
To think if the wind blew differently at midway the war in the pacific would be against the aussies and the brits alone.
The Japanese made a serious mistake by not garrisoning the Island especially the airfield while it was being built
Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up
Thank you! Always glad to have you with us @oneshot_me
Wow! you can really drive it home Indy, i feel bad for making a joke awhile back
Thanks david. If you haven't already consider joining the TimeGhost army or supporting us at bit.ly/SPECIAL_076_CO if you want to help us keep making more and better content 🙂
@@WorldWarTwo Team, i want too however, I am unable too at this time, i will purchase a couple shirts and continue 👍 and sharing. THANK YOU ALL! Excelsior!
7:15 7:43 that looks way more than 1500 and 1200 drums if each drawing means 100
So sad.
Japan could not afford to lose Guadalcanal, at the same time, they couldn't afford to keep it.
Well done!
Thanks @HAVOC!
What about the Aussie coast watchers? They played a very large part in the affair.
The channel should make special on them.
What happned to the lady at the desk in the background?
This is the final sign that the japanese on Guadalcanal are doomed.
Simple, old school, kind of midcentury tie. Timeless, if perhaps not the most exciting choice. 3/5
The Battle of Guadalcanal is also known as the Island of Big Death. Though American forces will suffer they will learn and be a much better prepared military force. The Japanese will learned the hardest way of what it means to resupply their forces. Now, on the defensive, the Japanese will now face an enemy who is better equipped and prepared than themselves, whilst their forces will not receive any supplies at all. Godspeed to the Japanese, Americans, and Natives of Guadalcanal. May they rest in peace in the luscious jungles of Guadalcanal and the calm waters surrounding the island. 🇺🇸🇯🇵🇸🇧
It's not just resources that the IJN was burning a lot of for Guadalcanal. Ships and men. Trained, experienced pre-war or early war crews were lost. Their Destroyer forces suffered heavy losses in the campaign for Guadalcanal, and will continue to lose more of them in the subsequent fighting down the Solomon Islands chain when all hope of taking Guadalcanal was lost to the Japanese.
The US Navy knows the high attrition the Imperial Japanese Navy Destroyers face. They also know that Japan's shipbuilding cannot replace these losses any time soon. It's so bad for the IJN Destroyers that the USN passes orders that their submarines are to hunt and sink Japanese DDs whenever possible instead of avoiding them. And they will do that job well.
"Trained, experienced pre-war or early war crews were lost" wouldn't be so bad if you could replace them. Idk if Japan could replace them...I'm not talking about just aircrew which requires a pretty long training period.
"...Japan's shipbuilding cannot replace these losses any time soon" hence Yamamoto's pre-war remarks. Looks like Japan's supply chain issues go right back to the home islands.
@@2ddw It's why a lot of the IJN's higher leadership wasn't too keen about going to war with the USN. It wasn't just Yamamoto. The Imperial Japanese Army saw the war as a bunch of flagwaving and expansion, all in the name of the emperor. They fought on ideology.
Naval warfare at its very foundation is tied to industrial power and IJN leadership knew they couldn't keep up with US production. They also knew that FDR pushed for the "Two Ocean Navy Act" of 1940 that got approved and America was on a *massive* shipbuilding program. With America having to worry about both Pacific and Atlantic Oceans, they knew that the IJN would have superiority in the Pacific at first, but eventually those new US ships would be completed. Hell, the US was completing their Carriers faster than Battleships. America would literally build ships faster than the Axis could sink them.
Then there's arms, aircraft, etc.
As for crews, it takes time. Those pre-war experienced crews have undergone lots of training and experience with the ship.
What doesn't help with the IJN's pilot replacement program was that their pre-war requirements were very harsh. Very few candidates were accepted and even fewer actually entered service to be aircrews. The IJNAF went Quality over Quantity by a significant margin. Only after the IJNAF suffered the horrendous aircrew losses of 1942-1943 was when they started to ease up on the restrictions. But it was too late.
"By the end of 1943, the army and navy had lost about 10,000 pilots. As American Lt. Gen. George C. Kenney reported to Washington, “Japan’s originally highly trained crews were superb but they are dead.” When matched to pilot production of 5,400 army and 5,000 navy in the same period, and when one considers the expansion in units, missions, tempo and geographical separation, it is clear that Japan’s pilot strength had not increased at all. Worse, the vast majority of prewar and even 1942-43 veterans were dead or wounded, and their replacements had none of the veterans’ experience." - John W. Whitman, "Japan’s Fatally Flawed Air Forces in World War II" (2006)
@@Warmaker01 Just for clarification: "The Imperial Japanese Army saw the war as a bunch of flagwaving and expansion, all in the name of the emperor. They fought on ideology." do you mean to say that IJA was for the war? After all, they were waist deep in China.
@@2ddw Oh hell yes the IJA was all for war. Just look at their track record in the 1930s up to the attack on Pearl Harbor:
The army was simply all for nationalism, expansion, war, etc. It was the army that started the Second Sino-Japanese War without approval of their own government. It was the army that while still mired waist deep in a continental war in China, decided it was nice to start a war on their own with Mongolia, which drew the Soviets in and send some dude named Zhukov to push their **** in. It has to be noted that the IJA thought it was going to be a simple cakewalk beating the Russians just like they did in the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905. The gov't did not order the start of that war against Mongolia & Russia, but after the army got stomped at Khalkin Gol, it was the gov't that had to bail the army out and get Russia to agree on a non-aggression pact. It was the army that invaded Vichy France controlled Indo-China (i.e. modern day Vietnam) without government approval. The IJA viewed the seizure of the region as a stepping stone to take British held Singapore eventually.
All this despite being stuck in a massive war in mainland China. The IJA was very much all for war.
The IJA was pretty damn crazy. I had read about an IJA Colonel that did not agree with the army's ideology, was murdered in his office by one of his subordinate junior officers with his sword.
There were Japanese government members that were not keen on what direction Japan was going. Over the years they were murdered by the military. They literally would gather troops, leave the base armed, and go to the government official they did not agree with, shoot the place up and kill him.
Matter of fact, before Pearl Harbor, Yamamoto was a huge opponent of the army and their policies. One of the reasons why the IJN made him become Commander-In-Chief of Combined Fleet was to keep him somewhere safe, because if he stayed ashore dealing with the politics, everyone was sure the army "hotheads" would kill him.
In the movie "Tora! Tora! Tora!" during the introduction where a ceremony is being held on the flagship, Battleship Nagato, where Yamamoto is going to assume command of C-in-C of Combined Fleet. A formation of IJN officers were joking with each other that Yamamoto was given command to be protected, and he now had the entire navy to defend him.
Related to these political murders done by the army, a lot of them got away with it, or the punishment they received was so laughably light. Some soldiers that were "punished" for murdering a government official were imprisoned in some nice hotel tended to by geisha girls. They got off because the defense they gave was they were doing their duty to promote Japan and the emperor.
HI,
You made an error regarding number of drums captured in Your graphic. Check 7:47.
Thanks. We spotted it too and are working on getting it replaced 🙂
👍 👍 👍!!!
The starving Japanese sound like allied POWs held by them.
It is the first time I facepalmed over the opening lines...
Good job clarifying just why Guadalcanal, a seemingly minor location compared to, say, Rabaul, could become such a central issue for all of Japan's ambitions.
Set out to conquer an empire to provide natural resources for the home islands? Don't forget those resources will require transportation...yet Japan seems to have failed to even try to counter US, British, even Dutch, submarine campaigns against pitifully vulnerable shipping.
Great content ww2 team
@Indiana Jones We're glad to have another Indy with us. Thanks for watching
Interesting comments. I saw the wrecks of the Japanese cargo ships partly up on the beach, their tails well beneath the eater's surface. The Japanese frustration with supplies was not that much of a moral boast to the opposite side as they kept their problems to themselves rather well.
The snake that lives next to my PC was offended. She lives on her belly scales. :+P
Our apologies, please tell her we meant no offense!
I'm wainting to see the conclusion of the battles of the two "axis hunger pockets" on the Eastern Front.
Did the Americans try using their navy to shell the Japanese occupied beaches on Guadalcanal? Or perhaps there were no targets to shell? I realize that the U.S. navy had its problems with Japanese air attacks too, but they were around. But mostly I hear about the Henderson Field airplanes attacking the transports, or shooting up the fuel drums.
Why risk your men confronting people that can shoot back when you can fire at their defenceless food supply instead?
@@alecmiddleton1842 I guess my question is, if your U.S. navy destroyers/cruisers are shelling beaches, who would be firing back in a serious way? Assuming, again, there is anything to shell.
Geez fine, Baka Tako! It's not like I like you or anything *dumps ur supplies into ocean in drums*