185 - Rommel Leaves Africa - March 12, 1943
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- čas přidán 11. 03. 2022
- Erwin Rommel loses his command and leaves Tunisia, while change in American command there puts George Patton in charge. On the ground the Axis lose the Battle of Medenine, but in the Soviet Union, Axis forces are on the move and heading for Kharkov.
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It's quite upsetting to make these episodes covering war 79 years ago in the exact same cities that are strangled by violence this very day. We make these videos so that people can learn from the mistakes and successes of our collective past, and that seems more relevant here than anywhere else. Join the TimeGhost Army so these videos can reach more people.
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Yes, i agree. My sentiments also.
These cities are not "Russia's" to lose, you bloody dweeb.
@@drdivano they are not Russian cities to lose, they are Ukranian, and yes I can see why Russia feels threatened but the possible advance of NATO, but that is no reason to devastate them, the Ukranians will now fight for 20 years if they have to, and Russia will have an Afghanistan times 20 to deal with, then they will leave and everyone will join Nato out of fear of it happening to them, or we will all die in a nuclear war, nothing good will come out of this for the Russian people only suffering.
@@drno4837 Yes, Russians understand that, thats why many don’t support this war, and the rest is extremely ambivalent about it. (Also, Russians means Russian people, not Russia govt)
@@drno4837 Putin is an egocentric man used to getting his own way. His ego will not allow him to give up or withdraw . For that reason he must have a prize as a result of this war in order to save face on the world stage. To that end I think he should first be given a treaty with NATO assuring him that the Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO. But I think his real prize should be the Crimean Peninsula, so he can hold that up as a trophy and say that he has won. If this doesn't happen, Putin will likely never admit defeat. In the short term, this would mean living under the specter of global thermonuclear war. If the war continues, Putin would indeed find himself in another Afghanistan.
I can imagine Rommel returning to Rome, checking into a small hotel, drawing a hot bath, and just soaking in it for hours, staring at the ceiling fan, wondering how his life had come to this. Two years ago he was the most celebrated general in Germany; now they’re about to give him the highest military decoration for losing the entire African front, the same year they made Paulus a Field Marshal for getting surrounded and destroyed in Stalingrad. If he still had any hope of Germany winning the war, his time in the desert and meetings with Adolf have by now probably dispelled that notion.
A very plausible contemplation in fairness.
@@aleksazunjic9672 He’s probably regretting that decision now. The Nazis, as an organization, only reward sycophancy and zealotry. Failure is promoted up to the highest ranks, while any independent thinking has been stamped out of the Wermacht with a polished boot.
What does it say of him, that he attached his wagon to this train wreck?
@@aleksazunjic9672 That is an outrageous misrepresentation. Rommel was one of the most highly respected officers in the entire German Army because he had been an instructor at their Officer Training College for many years. He was well known to almost every single officer in their army because he literally had taught over half of them. He had earned that position because he had been a highly decorated field commander in WWI and had written a ground breaking book on Infantry shock tactics. I have no idea why you are intent on spreading misinformation like this but you could not be more incorrect. Rommel would have been a Divisional commander at the start of the war regardless of who had been the leader of the German government. I hate Nazis just as much as you, but reality still matters.
Well said, interesting idea.
Got Fegelein on FailureBook.
Patton has entered the chat
Rommel has left the chat
Patton: "Rommel, you magnificent bastard I've read your book"
Von Armin: "???"
XD
Hahaha
Patton: Oh, Von Armin. I'd quite forgotten you were there. You may surrender now.
I see you are a man of culture as well
It's a bit unfair on von Armin, he was fighting in Russia only a few weeks ago, in the forested frozen wastes in the Rzhev salient. This is a totally different kind of environment to that. Strange choice.
Rommel: The situation in North Africa has become impossible.
Hitler: Just take a vacation. You’ll be moving in on Casablanca within the month.
Rommel: *Harsh Sigh*
or
Hitler: Just take a vacation. You’ll be moving on to commanding the Normandy Atlantic Wall in a bit.
@@obsidianjane4413A nice peaceful area the Normandy Atlantic Wall. A graat place to relax and take in the sights and taste the local wine. Nothing going to happen there nope.
I've heard that Hitler admitted the war was lost at this point to Rommel.
Another well researched and planned episode. Goebbels’ “total war” might have inspired the populace, but not the higher ups who knew the truth about Stalingrad.
You have to love those Italians.
Thank you for watching, Eleanor
The total war speech was only meant for the public, because the higher ups knew that just announcing that they lost millions of soldiers and no plan to do anything to save the advance would lower morale and party support
The Italians had better food. Even their combat rations were better.
@@HeinzGuderian_ They had instant cappuccino in their ration packs - something which was highly regarded as an item for loot or trade by both the Allies and Axis!
@@jtgd Oh, the parallels...
Been watching this series going on two and a half years, and I never miss an episode. Phenomenal coverage week by week, and truly a gem in the world of history. If anything, it’s made me realize just how long this war took to unfold. Plus, Indy’s phone calls at the start of each episode always give me a good laugh
I missed more than I saw until Fall Blau. Since then I've been glued every week.
I watched every serie since the invasion of denmark and norway
I watched a year ago almost all episodes until catched up with the weekly episodes. And I wait for the saturday evenings a long wait. Great series with painfully great teachings from our history.
Been watching since Indy was on “The Great War” in 2015. The whole world war 1 series with Indy is worth the watch too.
I saw all of the great war starting forom the end of 1915
Love the comedy in this week's phone call! Definitely a 9/10
Rommel leaving Africa seems like the end of an era in WW2
Not really. "The end of the begging" was half a year ago.
German running by sea or air isnt that much different than Germans running by land.
He is a doomed man, he has less than two years left to live. It's March '43 he will be dead in Oct '44.
War and Remembrance: Mein Failure make peace with Russia!
Hitler: You retarded minion! How dare you sully my Pencil of Doom?
And the start of a new era with Patton arriving.
@@Paciat "the end of the begging" would be the perfect society. Shame humanity didnt achieved that.
Rommel: makes accurate assessment of enemy strengths and weaknesses, concludes he can pull of a win and using it to carry out a successful campaign.
Axis command: this man is magic genius. Promote him!
Rommel: makes accurate assessment of enemy strengths and weaknesses, concluding he can't possibly win and recommends withdrawal.
Axis command: Boooo, this man has lost his nerve, his magic touch, what a coward, get rid of him already!
All the signs of thoroughly competent leadership.
If Rommel had been better supplied, he would have won.
@@tigertank06 You could literally do that with any campaign in any war. Change a few variables for any campaign and the loser has a better chance of reversing the historical outcome.
It's a pointless exercise.
“If only Sherman had spontaneously combusted at the battle of Chattanooga, then Atlanta would have never fallen”
- Atun Shei films
@@alviseossena3238 Great channel.
@@tigertank06 - "If Rommel had been better supplied, he would have won." That would have required the Axis economies to be bigger than the Allied economies. In turn that would have required plate tectonics and socio-political evolution to have made Germany, Italy, and Japan larger in population, area, and resources than the British Empire, the United States, China, and the USSR.
Sure, if we can stretch and shrink the globe to give it any shape we like then any outcome is possible.
If we want to think in terms of somewhat more realistic possibilities, Rommel's chances would have better had Germany taken the rather obvious steps of siezing Malta and Gibraltar and the French navy as soon as France surrendered in 1940, when Britain was on the ropes. Taking Gibraltar would have required the Germans to send a land army through Spain, and Franco wasn't down with that, but Franco couldn't have stopped the Germans. With Axis control over the western Mediterranean, the Allies would have struggled to hold Suez, being forced to supply it exclusively via the long route around Africa, and with Allied convoys having to veer far out in the Atlantic on the trip south to stay out of range of a Luftwaffe that would have been stationed in Spain.
The Japanese made a similar blunder in late 1941 by not capturing Hawaii when the Allies were at their weakest in the Pacific. The Japanese should have captured Hawaii first, and then all the other conquests would have fallen into their laps. The Axis failures to capture the three most strategic outposts on the map early in the war remain baffling to this day.
Another footnote this week on March 10 1943 is that Germany will implement new rationing regulations that will disallow the manufacture non-essential items such as suits, costumes, bath salts and firecrackers, as well as restricting telephone use and photography. This was part of the process from Germany’s recent official recognition that it was now in a state of total war in 1943.
are you a historian or why do you know so much about ww2?
3 years too late. The USSR was on a total war footing in 1940
On a darker note Stroop was given two crack SS corps to start retaking the Warsaw Ghetto. The Jewish fighters kept him off for over a month.
@@johgekpoint6299 - Anyone who can read, can read books.
The worst part about Giovanni Messe’s involvement in Tunisia is the fact that he didn’t even want to go there on the first place because he knew that the situation down there was hopeless.
He was sent there because his superior, Ugo Cavallero, was jealous of Giovanni because he was gaining the respect of the King and Mussolini thanks to his earlyer successes in Russia - before he was fired for the same reasons by Cavallero with some petty excuses (at the time, Giovanni was an Army Corps general, and the Italian expeditionary corps in russia was going to become a proper army - so, instead of promoting him, Ugo straight up replaced him).
So basically Cavallero sent the best general Italy had in this war to a suicide mission because he feared he could replace him.
Can’t imagine the depth of research these episodes take. Seems like just about every penny gets in the videos.
@Ryan Marshall It is quite the endeavor and truly a labor of love. Our entire team works their tails off every week, and it means a lot to read comments like yours noticing the labor going into it. Thanks and please stay tuned
‘We always thought,’ declares Brigadier Howard Kippenberger 5th NZ Brigade commander, ‘this Medenine position was our masterpiece in the art of laying out a defensive position under desert conditions.’ It was ‘admirably thought out’ agrees the more sedate Official History. So much so that the 300 tanks in 7th Armoured Division - as well as those in 23rd Armoured Brigade - saw hardly any action, though for the record 8th Armoured Brigade was stationed behind 51st Highland Division, 22nd Armoured behind Tadjera Khir, and 4th Light Armoured behind the New Zealanders.
So good in fact was Eighth Army’s defensive technique that the battle appears in retrospect as very unexciting, the issue never in doubt. Of course it all seemed rather different at the time. At 0900 on 6 March, the enemy attacked from three directions. The diversionary move by ‘Column Bari’ was easily repelled with heavy losses. The thrust by 10th Panzer Division towards Medenine was neither particularly resolute nor well organized and was halted by the anti-tank guns of 28th Maori Battalion which destroyed five panzers at point-blank range and drove the rest into hasty retreat. But in the centre around the crucial Tadjera Khir hill, the Axis armed forces proved worthy of their reputation.
Here the attackers were Eighth Army’s old foes 15th and 21st Panzer Divisions, which advanced with great determination, their tanks in the lead, their supporting infantry regiments close behind. They closed to within some 400 yards of the defences, but then the British artillery went into action, concentrating as ordered not on the panzers but on the German infantrymen, who were forced to seek shelter, leaving the tanks to continue on their own.
This they duly did, probing persistently for weak spots but failing utterly to find any. 21st Panzer attacked the Guards Brigade. Brigadier Julian Gascoigne had held back 6th Battalion, the Grenadier Guards as a reserve, and 3rd Battalion, the Coldstream Guards was scarcely engaged, but 2nd Battalion, the Scots Guards was quickly in action, destroying three tanks. The remaining ones fought back, knocking out some of the British guns, but the Scots Guards hit tank after tank, claiming to have destroyed fifteen during the day. On their left, the Coldstreams’ anti-tank platoon was at last able to join in the fight, setting a panzer ablaze with the first shot fired.
An even heavier attack was delivered by 15th Panzer on 131st Brigade, commanded by Brigadier Lashmer ‘Bolo’ Whistler, whom Montgomery would call ‘perhaps the best fighting brigadier in the British Army’. The main blows fell on 1/7th Queens in the centre of the brigade’s position, its anti-tank gunners claiming the destruction of twenty-seven panzers in a series of clashes throughout the morning. So determined and so continuous was the enemy assault that Whistler asked for assistance and 22nd Armoured Brigade moved up a squadron of Shermans in close support; these put seven more enemy tanks out of action.
By midday, the Axis commanders had had enough and retired to reorganize. At 1530, they renewed their advance from the same three directions as before, but this time it was their infantrymen who came forward first, the tanks lagging well behind them. Again all the attacks were broken, mainly by artillery fire, and though an attempted counter-attack by 7th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of 154th Brigade was halted by German mortars, by 2030, the Axis soldiers were withdrawing on all fronts and the battle was over. This was not immediately apparent since a number of movements on the part of the enemy were reported during the night - they attracted heavy artillery fire and kept the defenders on the alert for further encounters. In reality, as it subsequently transpired, these movements were merely attempts by the Germans to recover their knocked-out panzers. They failed in this mission but achieved an unexpected bonus by masking the retirement of their main forces. By dawn on 7 March, they had all fallen back into their own defences in the Mareth Line.
‘The Battle of Medenine,’ declares Montgomery’s Chief of Staff Brigadier de Guingand, ‘was a little classic all of its own. It was the perfectly fought defensive battle.’ The Axis soldiers had not even penetrated Eighth Army’s front-line defences as at Alam Halfa. There had been no flaws like the misfortunes of Operations BULIMBA and BERESFORD (during Battle of First Alamein and Battle of Alam el Halfa) to mar the brilliance of the whole encounter.
Before it began Montgomery had sent a message to his troops, urging them to ‘show him [Rommel] what the famous Eighth Army can do’ - and that they, and especially the infantry and the anti-tank gunners, had certainly done!
Eighth Army’s losses had been minimal: not a single tank, hardly any guns, and 130 killed or wounded, ‘all ranks’. The enemy had lost 635 dead, wounded or prisoners, over two-thirds of them Germans. Rommel would later admit to ‘40 tanks totally destroyed’, but Paul Carell, who gained his information from senior German officers including Bayerlein and Ziegler, records that ‘fifty-five burnt-out German tanks’ were left behind when the panzers retreated, while de Guingand states that ‘Rommel lost fifty-two of his tanks which were counted on the battlefield.’
It was Rommel’s final battlefield in North Africa. On 9 March, he handed over Army Group Afrika to von Arnim and returned to Germany, a sick, disillusioned man, his exhaustion shown clearly by the unsightly boils which covered his face. It is much to the credit of his army that Rommel’s departure, in Ronald Lewin’s words, ‘made no essential difference to its performance in action’. Indeed his absence may have been a blessing as Rommel’s ‘mood of depression’ had by now become ‘acute’ and his pessimistic outlook can hardly have had a beneficial effect on morale. Certainly after he had left, Panzer Army Afrika, now Messe’s First Italian Army, would come very close indeed to an achievement that had never been attained by Rommel: the defeat of an Eighth Army commanded by Montgomery.
‘Will you please convey to General Montgomery and the forces under his command my sincere congratulations on their magnificent performance of March 6th.’ wrote General Eisenhower, who since 11 February, had been a full ‘four-star’ general, had every reason to express his gratitude to Eighth Army for having ended the series of Allied set-backs with an indisputable success.
Eighth Army's Greatest Victories - Adrian Stewart
Watch the Desert Generals, with Tim Collins,Niall Barr,Corelli Barnett.I've explained it's alright that IKE bares some of the responsibility by stringing Monty along letting him believe he was something he wasn't - a Field Marshall.Monty never ended up in the chanel after the GIs arrived imagine that.
Claude Auchinleck (who BTW was a hell of a general) and Dorman Smith had just won the 1st battle of El Alamein concluded on July 30th.Auchilech was relieved and General Gott was installed but unfortunately his plane got shot down killing him. Everything and I mean everything was already in place to win.
Churchill wrongly removed General Auchinleck who argued that his men had not regrouped and needed reinforcing. Several military analysts accused Churchill of misunderstanding desert warfare tactics, saying he placed too much emphasis on territorial occupation. They needed 6 weeks to refit and resupply. So what does Monty do - took 10 weeks(Aug-13-Oct 23) to advance - much more time than Auchileck and Dorman Smith insisted on and got fired for in the 1st place. Almost any Commander was walking into assured victory.The British finally got their victory over a German Army and Monty was made a Hero when in truth it was a British /Allied victory. Montgomery had 1500 miles and every concievable advantage - BIG ADVANTAGES in men/materiel/air cover/intelligence/tanks/artillery.
Rommel had to move at dark to keep his columns from being strafed and obliterated.In the Mediteranean & the desert Air Marshall Conningham and Adml Cunningham strangled the German supply lines while keeping the Allies supplied was paramount. Yet Montgomery didn't grab airfields or open any ports - this continued into Italy- Normandy. Montgomery really should have never gotten that gig - he really could not lose after Auchilech and Dorman-Smith lined the massive mine fields on the Ridge of Alam Halfa( that Bernard later attempted to take credit for)also shored up defense line by the Qattara Depression to the south which was impassable to mechanized armor at El Alamein creating a choke point. And it was Auchinleck and Dorman-Smith that had 2 fresh divisions moved over from the Nile Delta. Monty couldn't lose in the desert where an embarrassment of riches covered his obvious lack of leadership abilities.Monty never pinned down Rommel he simply pursued
Then The Torch Landings forces included 60,000 troops in Morocco, 15,000 in Tunisia, and 50,000 in Algeria, Forced Rommel's hand as now there would be more enemy troops to deal with.And of course ULTRA was now fully operation and provided updates. By August '42 USA had sent the 300 Shemans and over 100 self propelled 105 mm Howitzers sent by Order of FDR.The 8th Army had an 5:1advantage of tanks over the AK.And with the landings 3:1 in manpower. The Afrika Korp was short on everything and their armor and vehicles had been in the desert for over 2 yrs.
The allied supply port of Alexandria was 100 miles away,The Axis supply port was 1,000 miles away in Tripoli.Also factor in complete Air Superiority - Rommel had to move at dark to keep his columns from being strafed and obliterated. So even you can clearly see reality exists All these things came together at the same time and Monty couldn't help himself - taking credit that wasn't his and deflecting blame that was - all thru the war. In 1500 miles with overwhelming advantages Monty never captured Rommel
*Monty left a vastly numerical inferior forces in front of him get away* *None of those benefits were enjoyed by Auchinleck and Dorman-Smith. Save the Air Superiority.* All of it in place and none of it Bernard's doing long before he sashayed into this mirage
Read R.W. Thompson one of the very best British military historians. He is able to combine a thorough knowledge of Great Britain's role in the Second World War with some excellent research on the life of Field Marshal Bernard L. Montgomery in a very readable narrative. Mr. Thompson is not kind to Great Britain's most popular war hero. On the 'title' page at the very front of the book, Thompson uses a quote from Napoleon to tell his readers what he thinks of Field Marshal Montgomery: "If the art of war consisted merely in not taking risks, glory would be at the disposal of very mediocre talent." Since Montgomery was the one general famous for not taking risks with the lives of his men, the reader must assume that Thompson thinks Montgomery was a very mediocre commander. Indeed, Thompson spends the next 260 odd pages proving his point beyond any reasonable doubt.
The entire Montgomery legend was based on a very fragile foundation. It would seem that Churchill's need for a political victory in London during the fall of 1942 had more to do with the size of the victory at El Alamein than any tactical brilliance displayed by the British commander on the North African battlefield. *Thompson wrote, "It was not enough to defeat Rommel, nor even to destroy him: it had to be a properly staged affair, politically and emotionally necessary at the time. Thus 2nd Alamein has in it the elements of a last act in a tragedy, fore-ordained and inescapable for political reasons. Militarily it need not have taken place at all." p. 106*
*Correlli Barnett in the DESERT GENERALS agrees, if Montgomery had waited for the Allied invasion in Northwest Africa, Operation TORCH, "... Rommel would have been out of Egypt with in a month and in Tunisia within three. The famous Second Battle of El Alamein must therefore, in my view, go down in history as an unnecessary battle." p. 256*
So between them, General Montgomery and Prime Minister Churchill were willing to accept 13,500 casualties to boost Montgomery's military reputation in North Africa and Churchill's political standing in London. *The Montgomery Myth was based, says Thompson, on a lie.*
"The tragedy was that all this new story (Second El Alamein) was to be built upon the lie of British defeat, and the denial of the triumph of the old Eighth Army." p. 132. The hard-fought victory over Rommel British Generals Claude Auchinleck and E. Dorman Smith won in July 1942 has been swept from history. Instead Churchill and Montgomery and their legion of followers began repeating the lie that before Second El Alamein the British Army in North Africa had suffered nothing but defeats and after Second El Alamein they always won victories. The hoped for official, historical conclusion was that Montgomery and Churchill rescued the British war effort from certain disaster in North Africa and were therefore due great public adulation. *R.W. Thompson is right, it is all based on a lie.*
@@jamestwilkins875 I really never have studied that aspect of the war in the Med.But by the summer of 1942 Air Marshall Conningham's at Alam Halfa for instance had complete air superiority bombing the snot out of the Afrika Korp then and later at 2nd El Alamein
I gotta feeling things aren't gonna end very well for ole Rommel.
Naw, he is a survivor. He won't get mixed up in anything that might get him into trouble....
@@hoodoo2001 Absolutely! I hear tell he'll command part of Normandy and give him a chance to stop the Allies on the beaches with his reserve of panzers! Unless they invade at Calais.... Pure conjecture on my part!
@@markreetz1001 What invasion? The French coast is far too well defended. The allies will clearly be trying to attack Sicily if they can secure North Africa
@@chronovac Good Point! The Nazis are too smart to get caught off guard.
Watching this episode made me realize the strengths of Rommel as a general; He was always able to see things objectively. Whereas Hitler and other generals, as Rommel stated, were depressed and angry about defeats and unwilling to make withdrawals, Rommel seemed to always realize the reality of a situation before virtually anyone else.
Likewise in earlier engagements, like at El Alamein, he knew that it was now or never when he attacked, though he also knew that victory was unlikely. This time, he realized that the British must have known of the attack against Medenine even as Messe stubbornly continues a relentless assault.
Perhaps there were other generals who had smarter tactical ideas or more brilliant battleplanning, but i dont think there was any other as fast at realizing his position or as good at interpreting the enemy movement and operations to sieze the moment and exploit their weakness.
Most of Rommel's supposed "brilliance" (which mostly gone after 1942 summer) due to his Wireless Intercept Unit 621 decypering and reading wireless tactical communication of Eighth Army (till Unit 621 was destroyed by Australian infantry at First Battle of Alamein) and US Military Attache Colonel Bonnar Fellers reports wired via Black Code which was penetrated by Italians plus tactical and operational incompatence of initial batch of British generals like Cunningham , Gott , Norrie , Ritchie , Auchinleck etc...Once all wireless intelligence leaks were plugged by British , US Black Code was changed , Fellers sent back to US and Montgomery took over Eighth Army and put it into a shape with proper realistic operational and strategic command , Rommel was defeated constantly and suddenly became a pessimist when his defeats caused partially his own making by over extending all the way to El Alamein and sticking to ground there for four months on a territory under complate British air dominance and stretching Axis logistical system to breaking point while deluding himself to be conquerer of Egypt when the supply ans logistical means Axis had was nowhere enough for such a scheme in Mediterranean and nobody ordered him to march Egypt neither Hitler nor OKW , Commando Supremo , no one. He caused his army's own downfall.
@@merdiolu He should have stopped at Tobruk tbh.
Rommel could see the writing on the wall of Berlin Gents Toilets after Stalingrad.🤣🤣
A joke told by a German pilot after his capture at Tunisia in May 1943: “The difference between a clock and Rommel is that a clock goes forward and says tick-tock and Rommel goes backwards and says tactics.”
Rommel. we should challenge the mythology. He was hardly apolitical. His entire career had been based on Hitler's favor, and we might reasonably describe his attitude toward the Führer as worshipful. He was Hitler's fair-haired boy, a young officer repeatedly promoted over more senior candidates. He was a media creation. Nazi propaganda painted him not only as a garden-variety hero, but as a model National Socialist and Aryan, a man who could overcome stronger enemies through the sheer force of his will. He was not merely a passive bystander to the hype; he was an active accomplice. He loved nothing better than having a camera crew along with him on campaign, and he would regularly order scenes to be reshot if his posture was insufficiently heroic or the lighting had not shown him to best advantage. As is often the case, his relationship to the media was both self-serving and self-destructive. During the years of victory, the German propaganda machine used him as an example to the nation. When things went sour, he became a diversion from the increasingly bad news on other fronts. Finally, when he was no longer useful for any purpose at all, the regime dropped him altogether and eventually killed him.
Oh really how about this joke *U.S Army officers recalled a* *bitter joke from 1917:that the "AEF" stood not for "American Expeditionary Force" but for "After England Failed"* if Rommel had ULTRA and the USA - Bernard would have gotten blasted into the Sea - again.Montgomery is not studied in military academies except as a bad example.Caen,Goodwood,Falaise,Monty Garden.Before the USA got involved Rommel drove your boy into the channel.And then only came back over with the GIs. And ULTRA 1st went operational in the Desert - The Allies not Monty won in the Desert. Watch the Desert Generals - even a sod like you could have won.The rest of the war Monty practically sat on his arse so not to make a mistake
I haven't watched the channel for a while (sorry, gang) but the production values are fantastic. The editing, the colour, and of course Indy's charisma, better than ever. Double thumbs up.
Thank you for watching! We can only do it with the support of the TimeGhost Army
I just want to congratulate you guys for all the images you provide us. We take it for granted as the high quality is consistent but really the amount of rare videos of all commanders, ordinary troops, or coloured photos that you provide us is astonishing and makes the video flow so much better. This project is unique, I've watched it every week since the Blitz and the quality keeps improving. Really congratulation to all the team
Thank you so much for your kind words! We are truly glad to hear that!
@@WorldWarTwo It is a great channel i've watched alot,sorry if i've gotten a little salty with revisionist trolls
It is impossible for most of the high ranking officers to believe any victory can be achieved. Kharkov is a respite, not a turning point. Everyone at that level knows the superweapons are horse manure. "Total War" is not going to make up for being at war with the largest empire ever achieved, the largest economy on the planet (which is going total war), and the ever renewed Red Army. Only those whose faith in Der Fahrter is complete can be trusted to carry on the long retreat.
Similar to The Battle of The Bulge
Alexsa, I've read that in the majority of cases, Hitler took his generals advice.
@@aleksazunjic9672 Why it is true that many were with him, that does not preclude them knowing that defeat was inevitable. If they all were with him so many would not have tried to kill him, and even more knew about the plots and said nothing to warn him.
There's 4 things playing here that helped explain why Germany fought to the bitter end and would not surrender even when it was hopeless.
1. The myth of Frederick the Great, the Prussian king who fought in the 7 Year's War against France, Austria and Russia, and came out on top. Nazi propaganda played heavily into this, including a full feature movie, the Great King.
2. The Allied call for unconditional surrender. Many Germans feared what would happen if Germany surrendered unconditionally, especially the terrible revenge that the USSR would enact on Germany.
3. The myth of the dagger in the back that came about after WW1, where Germans felt they had not been beaten, but betrayed by feckless politicians, deserters and cowards back home. They did not want such a shame to repeat itself. And it probably played no small part why the Stauffenberg plot to kill and overthrow Hitler failed. And besides, the plotters hoped that by killing Hitler they could gain a conditional surrender, at least from the Western Allies, but they were hopelessly clutching at straws there.
4. The iron grip that the Nazi's had on the army and the people back home through the Gestapo and SS. As Germany's instruments of repression was forced out of the occupied countries it came home to Germany and instead was unleashed fully on the Germans itself.
When did the Reich go to total war production, 24/7/365 as the USA did?
Often three eight hour shifts, or in factories requiring daily down time for equipment maintenance, two ten hour production shifts and a four hour plant maintenance window.
Factories and national transportation networks secured by two oceans from aerial obliteration and harassment.
I think to be fair Rommel had incredible intelligence gathering early on in the piece with the intercepted messages and broken US codes sent from Col Bonner Fellers to Washington, detailing British movements. His loss of Intelligence Unit 621 hurt his strategy planning too. As Montgomery had intelligence in this recent battle and bettered Axis forces, Rommel had great intelligence early on and looked invincible prior to Tobruk, El Alamein 1 and 2. Personally I think he was bettered by Gen Morsehead at a divisional level attack anyway in 41/42. Vale the Desert Fox.
An Australian unit wiped out Intelligence Unit 621, killing the head honcho and binging back evidence of the damage they'd been doing.
Enter Patton, stage right. A new act has begun.
Interesting how Rommel left just as Patton arrived, a narrowly avoided potential clash of titans.
Rommel was not that good, but way better than anything the British had
@@drno4837 i believe he was as goog as general Patton.
They'll sort of clash again when Patton's fake army confuses Rommel's defense of Fortress Europa against the impending Allied invasion of France.
@@drno4837 Rommel and Patton cannot be compared.
Rommel largely relied in infantry. Don't forget that Rommel was an infantry commander 1st, tank commander 2nd.
Now he is known for very good tank tactics but.
- He usually had less panzers
- Less supplies for the tanks to actually operate at reasonable capacity (a full tank of gas was often a no no)
- Less artillery
- His infantry was often not motorized
Now Patton.
- Supplies for days
- Tanks, lots of them
- defently amount of motorized infantry
- Artillery advantage (usually more guns)
Now how do these two measure up?
Its impossible to say but, I know Patton was the supposed hardass that would bump heads, but still read the books of his enemies to learn from then.
So there really is no clear answer as "A is better than B"
@@drno4837 Certainly better than anything the Americans had.
Rabaul and Bougainville must really been the major thorns for the South Pacific. My father-in-law mentioned both bases numerous times and he was on a minesweeper. Think it was because those two bases were the sources of most air attacks on US ships and shore bases. Minesweepers spent a lot of time on shore except when an invasion was coming up.
Bougainville becomes a bigger deal, an objective a bit later but it was Rabaul that was the main problem in that part of the Pacific. It had a strong garrison, a port suitable for big warships to be stationed at, extensive facilities to maintain lots of men, ships, and air power. Rabaul was the major hub of the Japanese war effort in the South Pacific.
It was from Rabaul that those air attacks to hit Guadalcanal came from, but that was a treacherous distance leading to a lot of Japanese air crew fatigue. Probably a good number of veteran pilots got killed as they were flying exhausted those long stretches. Ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy would be sent from Japan or Truk, and stationed at Rabaul. From there the sortied to fight at Guadalcanal and later through the Solomon Islands.
SPOILER
SPOILER
Even later as the Allies get steamrolling through New Guinea, up the Solomon Islands, taking Bougainville, the base of Rabaul was different. Again, it was well protected. There was an initial plan by the Allies to assault it, but that was deemed to costly. The plan changed to encircle and cut off Rabaul, isolate it, threaten it with air power.
Once Bougainville is controlled, more aircraft are in range to attack Rabaul. Once the Japanese saw the fall of Bougainville imminent, the Japanese evacuated their warships, what aircraft they could. They did not have the sealift capability to evacuate their men who will be stuck there for the remainder of the war until the Japanese surrender in 1945. Lots of IJA soldier, IJN aircraft maintainers, etc. are just sitting there.
Rabaul gets isolated and is subject to occasional bombing attacks. It gets to the point that the Allies treat Rabaul as a bombing test range, where new pilots to the theater go to get introduced to fighting in the Pacific.
Supplies from Japan end and the garrison is forced to fend for itself, which it actually does pretty well for the rest of the war. And honestly, when the garrison formally surrenders in 1945, they were a lot better off than other Japanese garrisons found in the Pacific Islands, Philippines, forces stationed in Burma, Indochina, China, Manchuria. Those other garrisons will see years of death, starvation, deprivation, and many will be totally annihilated. When WWII ends, most Japanese losses will be from starvation. The Rabaul garrison will be alright.
Anyways, what do the Allies do if they weren't going after Rabaul? They'd continue through New Guinea, eventually through to the Philippines. The US would also push through past / around Rabaul and send a massive armada for the Pacific to conduct amphibious operations. Tarawa will be one such target. If the IJN thought the US Navy forces that they fought at Guadalcanal and the Solomons were powerful, the one that was sent to Tarawa was insanely strong. From there on the USN's presence simply too powerful for the IJN to deal with. From there we see lots of US Carriers, Battleships, and a huge screen of Cruisers and Destroyers to protect them. And the US Navy will just continually get stronger and stronger in the Pacific.
@@Warmaker01 that was very interesting.
@@Warmaker01 - "Probably a good number of veteran pilots got killed as they were flying exhausted those long stretches." Another factor is that the lightly-built Japanese airplanes were optimized for long range and high performance, but not so much to absorb damage. And the Allies are getting steadily better at inflicting damage on Japanese airplanes, with increasingly more accurate anti-aircraft guns in increasing numbers, and with the larger 5" guns firing the brand-new and top secret VT (promixity fuzed) shell. The Japanese also allocated fewer resources to locating and rescuing their downed pilots than the Allies did. So the Japanese pilots faced long flights over water or jungle-covered islands in airplanes that couldn't take much damage against an enemy increasingly capable of inflicting damage and reliant on a Japanese Navy that didn't feel strongly motivated to come rescue them.
Another factor was that Japanese command was largely in denial about pilot fatigue and its cumulative nature over time. The Western Allies understood that you cannot just keep sending your pilots into combat day after day without rest. After a few uninterrupted weeks of that even the best and most motivated pilots will see their skills degrade. And you can't overcome the limits of human physiology by denouncing your pilots as cowards.
On March 1 1943, the Free French Flying Column was put under the command of the 4th British Light Armored Brigade and took position in the defensive perimeter of the British 30th Army Corps, west of Ghomrassen (between Medenine and Tataouine).
On the 3rd, the Flying Column received the order to relieve a squadron of King's Dragoon Guard in the Wadi Gragour and cover the Medenine/Foum-Tataouine road near Bir Lahmar. Thus it will have to protect the flank of the 30th Army Corps whose closest elements are near Medenine, nine kilometers north of Bir Lahmar. As soon as the relief is completed, the Free French send patrols into the beds of the dry wadis which penetrate deep into the mountain.
On March 5, in the morning, a patrol had a run-in with the Germans. On March 6, at six o'clock, a detachment of French soldiers on surveillance on the Bir Ahmar track, reported the noise of tanks in one of the ravines located to the west. The whole column is alerted. A detachment comprising two sections of tanks and a platoon of SPG is sent to the northern outlet of the wadi Gragour. At the same time, the patrol on the Bir Ahmar track reports that it is facing many enemy armored vehicles which emerge from the mountain range and force it to fall back towards the road to Medenine.
The Commander of the Flying Column, Jean Rémy, realizes that the enemy intends to cut the Medenine-Tataouine road. A French detachment is sent to Bir Lahmar to block this road, while the bulk of the Flying column regroups at the place where the Wadi Gragour lead to the plains. A reconnaissance of tanks is stopped by the shots of German 75 PAK AT guns. However, six 75mm guns of two French SPG platoons opened precise fire on the enemy vehicles which were some 400 meters from them. Trucks, tanks, SPGs are on fire. Confusion reigns among the enemy whose front is taken on by French SPGs, and the flank by the French tanks and AT guns of two platoons sheltered in the Wadi Gragour. Soon the enemy movement stops, the vehicles take shelter in the folds of the terrain and the 88mm come into action. A long duel ensues. Many enemy vehicles are hit and burn with thick black smoke. Two French tanks and two SPGs are also hit.
The fight continues at a distance until thirteen o'clock without either of the two adversaries giving ground. However, a French platoon which covers the left flank of the Flying Column signals the arrival of a German infantry battalion deployed on the ridge eight hundred meters further. Not having sufficient infantry to oppose this new threat, commander Rémy decided to fall back on Bir Lahmar.
The afternoon is spent exchanging gunfire on any vehicle that leaves its shelter imprudently. At nightfall, Commander Rémy, considering that he did not have enough infantry to stay in contact with the enemy, asked the Commander of the 4th Light Armored Brigade for permission to withdraw at five or six kilometers in the direction of Foum-Tataouine. This authorization is granted to him and the Flying Column withdraws on its new position after having destroyed all the material which cannot be brought back.
The next day, March 7 at daybreak, the French, armored cars in the lead, took all the ground they had to abandon the day before. Rommel's attack has been repulsed everywhere. German losses were particularly high in front of the 201st Guards Brigade sector, where the Panzer Divisions lost nearly fifty tanks. The Free French Flying Column has twenty-three vehicles and guns on its tally, including two self-propelled 75 PAKs and three armored cars. It itself lost in combat four armored cars, two SPGs and four tanks, two of which were by mechanical accident. The losses in men are four killed, six wounded and fourteen missing. They will learn later that the group that was opposed to them was the Kiel reconnaissance group.
On March 10, at the oasis of Ksar Rhilane, the Force L of general Leclerc is attacked by German tanks and armored cars belonging to the 15th and 21st Panzer Divisions, supported by stukas. Montgomery advised him to fall back but Leclerc refused categorically. He buried and dispersed his troops in trenches and ordered them to hold their ground. With the support of the Royal Air
Force, the Free French managed to repel the Germans and won a defensive victory and prevented their adversaries from discovering the concentration of New Zealand troops preparing to attack the Mareth line. Montgomery sent later this sober message to Leclerc: “Well done”. For his part, Leclerc declared to his men in the order of battle of the day: « The first contact with the Boche was a victory, the others will be too! Long live the general De Gaulle, Long live France! »
I would love to hear more about that strike in Italy! Sounds fascinating
Same. Maybe we can await a general special on the situation in Italy near the end of the Musollini's reign since that did not come crashing down all of the sudden when allies made their invasion. A lot of factors played to it even before.
@@LightFykki Perfect for On the Homefront?
It feels really weird to be listening about the Battle of Kharkov 79 years ago, while also listening about the Battle of Kharkov ongoing today. The more things change, the more things stay the same...
It's sad to think that the general peace in Europe, largely in place since 1945, may have effectively ended.
I like the quote from MW2
Yup, there's even a mention here of taking a station. Even the gag by Indy at the start sounded something from more recent times until he said "Hoth". 9:30 even sounds to happen again.
The Western Allies failed to impose liberal democracy on all of Europe after WWII. They weren't in position to do so, because the anti-democratic USSR was their ally. We're still seeing the effects today, as even after the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia's tenuous grip on democracy did not hold. Once again we see the traditional pattern of wars being caused by countries that aren't liberal democracies. No two liberal democracies have ever fought a war against each other - not that this will never happen, but the odds are vastly lower than wars being started by dictators, autocrats, and strongmen who first manage to destroy the foundations of liberal democracy e.g. a free and independent press.
@@danielmocsny5066 Iraq 2003? Liberal democracies can be the attacker
Another great episode as always! Been a pleasure to view this series over the years. You have truly given people a truthful and thought provoking view into the reality of the war. Keep writing and carry on.
Great installment! Thanks again TGTV!
Found this series in December. Glad to be caught up now on the regular episodes and can't wait for next weeks.
@Jacob we're very glad you found our channel! Please consider becoming a member of the TimeGhost Army to support our exploring history, however long this war drags on. www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
Great work thank you for this awesome series
Been following since your WWI series. Easily the best thing on CZcams
Thank you, glad to hear this!
On the 21st July Rommel wrote a report to the OKH outlining why his plans failed. He identified the New Zealand division and the Australian 9th division, versatile British artillery, supply lines and the RAF attacking everything (source Ian Playfair).
What? There were British & Commonwealth troops in North Africa and Tunisia? Who would have thought it?
Another great one gang.. You are impressive in keeping me interested . I have never needed to yawn during one of your videos . Thank you !
Thank you for watching! No yawns here! The war goes on much longer I suspect, so stay vigilant & stay tuned
Excellent video. Thank you....
Like how the colours on this tie sort of evoke a desert setting, even if they're a little darker. Nice touch. 4/5, shame about the waistcoat!
The Axis are also about to lose an army in Tunisia on a scale similar to Stalingrad, which only ended a month prior. We go from the Axis pushing to Egypt and now they're getting cornered in Tunisia. They have little means on supplying these forces and even worse means on evacuating them. Lots of irreplaceable men, equipment, and experience will be trapped and forced to surrender.
Kharkov IIRC will also be the last big German victory in the Eastern Front.
Thank you for the lesson.
Thank you for your video.
Great video Indy and staff!
Thanks very much Jason. We really appreciate the support and enthusiasm of you in the TimeGhost Army. Stay tuned
A wonderful episode .. excellent history introducing
Its less that Rommel's luck runs out, more that he got out while the gittin' was good (or at least not completely lost). It preserved his reputation.
The political leadership has lost confidence in him due to their being in denial about how bad the Axis strategic and logistic situations are in North Africa, and he has at least one subordinate general going behind his back to carry out his own plans. Might as well obey those orders.
@@mjbull5156 Its not like he had a choice anyway. But in historical hindsight it rolled in his favor. He might have been able to keep the command by burning all his chips with Hitler. But then that just would have left him in the same place as von Arnim.
This series is of fantastic value to the Internet in general, I'm very impressed at the consistency of quality and timeliness of the uploading
@Skystrike70 Thanks very much! I'm glad you're enjoying the videos, we wouldn't be able to do it without the support of our amazing audience. Please consider joining the TimeGhost Army to help us make more episodes every single week, and tell your friends! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
@@WorldWarTwo This ain't how you get Patreon supporters lmao
My father saw MacArthur in the Philippines when he was serving in WWII. I would much rather have had Nimitz in charge and MacArthur in a desk job.
You need to wait before having an opinion on that.
@@steved5495 I think I know how the story ends. Lol.
Another excellent video thank you!
Thanks @joezephyr! Consider signing up for the TimeGhost Army if you haven't already to help us keep making our content
As always, great episode
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you for watching!
From watching this and listening to the brilliant “We have ways of making you talk” podcast, it definitely feels like ‘Removing Upwards’ is a common method in Allied command of replacing a less effective general with a different or more effective one.
Fredendall getting a third star, for example. But also half the higher ranking British commanders that have gone from North Africa to India.
Great episode.
Thanks for watching, Diego!
Love your content. One of my favourite channels. One tiny nit pick. When referencing the 3rd ss division Totencopf ( 6.49) the 2nd ss was highlighted on the map and vice versa earlier in this segment. Maybe just an unlucky accident?
That was indeed an unlucky accident but thanks for pointing that out!
*General Patton has entered the chat*
Stone Cold Steve Austin entrance music intensifies 🎶
This week also marks the opening of "The Battle of the Ruhr" by RAF Bomber Command, a sustained bombing campaign against German industrial cities. The WW2 channel is kindly letting me link some narrated 3D animated time lapses I am making to show how these raids were conducted, unfolded, and how the German night fighter system responded.
Raid on Essen Raid (5th/6th) - czcams.com/video/8pqJquoOkv8/video.html
Raid on Nuremberg (8th/9th) - czcams.com/video/8pqJquoOkv8/video.html
Raid on Munich (9th/10th) - czcams.com/video/8pqJquoOkv8/video.html
Raid on Stuttgard (10th/11th) - czcams.com/video/8pqJquoOkv8/video.html
"industrial", doesn't suit Spartys agenda.
I see Paton has entered Chat. This should get interesting....
10:47 - The camo on that Stug is frighteningly good - you'd never see it until you got right on top of it, especially through a narrow viewport o.0
Good show!!
@One Smooth Stone Thank you, glad you liked it! Stay tuned for more
Clever comment
Your videos are amazing!
Thank you! Stay tuned for much more
Enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up as a support
Thank you!
@@WorldWarTwo You're welcome!
I believe the highest rank of the iron cross is golden oak leave swords and diamonds only given to Hans Ulrich Rudel
My seminary teacher served under Vera Marshall Ronald later became a pow late I has another seminary was there too.
Random question for Indy and the team. Are all your notes for the episode in the notebook on your desk? I was just curious because it must be challenging keeping track of all the fine details for these episodes while simultaneously presenting.
I need a lay down. Breathless narration 👍
@Jason Thank you for watching
I’ve been waiting for Patton
A great video.
Thanks Predrag!
This might be the best tie I've seen on Andy so far.
So good that it deserves an "A" instead of just that usual "I"?
13:20 "that's not a knife... this is a knife"
Thr conflict between McArthur and Nimitz is an interesting one. War plan dog favored Nimitz, and war gaming in the 30s decided that Europe would be the army and the pacific the navy in primary command. So why is McArthur given so much independence and resources? Especially in light of his previous failures on the Phillipines?
McArthur was legendary to the American public and had already retired once. Roosevelt and the democrats were terrified that he would retire from the army, and run for president on the republican ticket. His campaign would be that Roosevelt was mismanaged the war and this legendary war hero would set things right. That also would likely have ended europe first with McArthurs promise to return to Manila. So Roosevelt strung him along and did just enough to placate him to avoid this scenario. Hence why everyone prefer Nimitz and his plan to win the war, but gave in to McArthur anyway.
Hi Indy..
Well splendid episode..
Rommel leaves and axis force seems to lose steam.
Reading Diary of anne frank..
Thanks for the video..
3:31 Luigi Cadorna: "That's my boy!". 9:30 sounds errily applicable this week.
The strange circular nature of conflict plays out through these videos and current events.
Another underrated German German was Heinrici he refused to carry out any heinous orders
It's nice if true but still, every German who took up arms for Hitler played his part in implementing those heinous orders. Even the German civilians who worked in the war economy had their share of responsibility for the Holocaust.
@@danielmocsny5066 please read about him though he refuses to burn down Smolensk and he refused to carry war crimes. There is a difference between war and warcrimes you are confusing the two. Rommel refused to carry out atrocities. There is a difference between war and Prisoner of Wars
Greatest channel of all time
@Ludwig Van 🙏 Thank you to (imho) the greatest composer of all time
Boganville is how it is pronounced, I believe. Excellent episode Indy + Team
Time Ghost Army reporting in!
@Bill L. Thank you for your support!!
"The Chieftain" is the Dubliner with the Yank twang - a type beloved in Ireland.
I wonder how long it will take for mass media to globalize a single blended English accent. Perhaps that will be when children grow up spending more time talking to their computing devices than to their fleshy peers.
At 11;28, Australian troops were fighting the Japanese on the Salamaua - Mubo -Wau Track in New Guinea.
Last week (I think) you covered the ally resolution to only accept unconditional surrender of the three major axis powers. Could you possibly to a special episode explaining this concept and whether it unnecessarily prolonged the war?
@Gooberson Every episode is a great investment of research, time, and money. We do our best to cover the action of this war every single week and to bring you special episodes regularly, but we can't do it without your support! Join the TimeGhost Army on Patreon and help us to make more of those specials! www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
"and whether it unnecessarily prolonged the war" - well, there's a non-simple question. Recall that the Allies were thinking back to WWI, when they did not prolong the war "unnecessarily" by driving toward a total defeat of Germany. That left the non-critical-thinkers in Germany vulnerable to the "stabbed in the back" lie - the fiction that Germany had not actually been defeated in the Great War, but had rather been betrayed by its own internal enemies, who could then be scapegoated and then exterminated by the Nazis.
The Allies concluded from that experience - from the fact that they were fighting Germany *again* - that nothing less than total, undeniable victory will do this time around. Subsequent history might suggest that the Allies were at least not wrong. By utterly defeating Nazism the Allies were able to rebuild Germany as a stable, liberal democracy which today is a bulwark for the cause of democracy in Europe, instead of its former role as the biggest threat to it.
@@danielmocsny5066 I disagree that the rise of Nazism after ww1 was a result of the failure to totally destroy Germany militarily.
After the Napoleonic Wars, Metternich reintegrated France into the European order and left her territory intact: a hundred years of peace followed. At Versailles the Entente humiliated Germany, made her a pariah state, and dissolved the Habsburg Empire: we all know what followed, twenty years of political and economic instability, the rise of totalitarianism in Russia and Germany, and a new war worse than the first.
What differentiated the two was punitive vs generous peace, not conditional vs unconditional surrender. Also by extending the war to totally defeat Germany and Japan, the allied powers also gave time for the Soviets to pause outside of Berlin to sweep over the capitals of Romania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, and Hungary in Europe and conquer Manchuria in the East. Both of these events solidified the rule of totalitarianism in Eastern Europe and China and set the stage for the near, miraculously adverted, total destruction of civilization during the Cold War.
_The noodles are wet and spicy_ - Bowl of noodles near the docks of Singapore
This week on March 12 1943, the sixth mission of the 2003 video game *Medal of Honor: Rising Sun* , the *Singapore Sling level* begins at Japanese occupied Singapore.
In this level as *Corporal Joseph Griffin* , you will land near the docks of Singapore and meet up with Private First Class Ichiro "Harry" Tanaka waiting in a rickshaw. There will be a short ride through Chinatown before it is cut short when the rickshaw crashes with Colonel Kandler’s car. Eventually you will make your way to the Raffles Hotel to infiltrate the Axis summit once Colonel Kandler’s uniform has been stolen. Once you have grabbed the slide reel, you will need to fight your way out of the hotel and escape.
This is arguably one of the more memorable levels in Rising Sun and takes its name from the Singapore Sling cocktail beverage that was invented at Raffles Hotel by bartender Ngiam Tong Boon in 1915.
Kandler showing up in his boxers is pretty awesome
The sound track of this level is etched into my memory
"Don't shoot! Its me, Tanaka!"
Finally Patton is here!
It's amazing that Rommel leaves Africa and no one knows for weeks after!
By which time the remnants of the Afrika Korps are being hammered at Mareth & Wadi Akarit.
2:18 oh that’s great they have Patton now
Wait is that Omar Bradley
*boss music starts playing*
Episode after episode I keep seeing Poltava on the map and I can't help, but thing of Charles XII, who also had ventured far away from his homeland and lost. ;-)
Not to be nit picky but at 6:50 you confuse the 3rd ss with the 2nd
I never miss an Episode... Got me through the various 'Lockdowns'...
2:14 - Talk about going from the farcical to the sublime.
Will you please convey to General Montgomery and the forces under his command my sincere congratulations on their magnificent performance of March 6th in Medenine.’ wrote General Eisenhower, who since 11 February, had been a full ‘four-star’ general, had every reason to express his gratitude to Eighth Army for having ended the series of Allied set-backs with an indisputable success.
The 8th was a seriously dangerous mob, with some proper kit and some degree of air superiority. They actually broke Rommel - the NZ division (Monty's favorite) has a strong claim right now to being the finest fighting force in the world ... and they combined with the Highlanders, all kinds of Shermans, 6-pounders (finally having adequate weaponry)? That happens.
I hate the Rommel myth, I hate the anti-Monty revisionism. Monty was insufferable and unglamorous, but he was a scary guy - he never rolled the dice, he was meticulous (he was perfectly flawed). Rommel, possibly the most reckless gambler in military history, and big Hitler fan, has as of now thrown-in the towel and crapped-out. He knows he can't defeat Monty, he knows the Allies have the gear and balls to kick Germany's ass remorselessly. Fritz Todt was telling Hitler that in November '41. Sometimes I wonder if Rommel was a moron.
Bullcrap Monty couldn't lose with overwhelming weight of allied advantages.He bragged himself up after everything was there and in place..A Year later patton schooled the rube on sicily.Auchinleck and O'Connor were much better generals
@@bigwoody4704 Hello Big Woody , still here old boy ? Missed you. Still continuing that nonsense Monty mud slinging without showing a credible resource while Patton (and Hollywood) showed a tie in El Guettar as a victory and Auchinleck left 33.000 men to be captured in Tobruk and barely hold his breath in Alamein before sacked back to India. Try again MAYBE you can convince a few souls 😀 Montgomery was way way more talented to know he needed to put every asset in place before operating.
Oh , Sicily is a few months later after this week not a year AND Patton had never lacked anything neither supplies nort reinforcements and fought only coastal Italian formations in Sicily before choked up by one German division in Tronia.
When you are done cleaning you teeth with your finger try turning some pages in a history book.Britain had good soldiers Monty wasn't one of them .Auchinleck and Dorman-Smith just won the 1st battle of El Alamain.The Desert War was no great work of Monty's.This is why he was so loathed amongst other British Commanders.The Navy & RAF completely strangled the Afrika Corp even Monty couldn't cock it up .The British Press needed a Hero and Monty reveled in the roll,pissing off the others who had done so much for the War effort.He loved grabbing the Glory at least twice later he almost got sacked.And if it wasn't for the sorry fact the British Press propped him up beyond his accomplishments & abilities he would have.Monty was given the inside road by his mate Alexander Highway 124 and Patton still drove 7th Army and took Palermo and then Messina.People were dying in camps and the War factories being worked to death.Couldn't wait for monty faffing around.He never cornered Rommel in 1,500 miles in the desert
@@bigwoody4704 That's the thing - quite a few other characters have managed to squander advantages. It's like I said: seamless competency is the highest virtue of military leadership. It doesn't excite the armchair warriors, but it does incite the resentment of bunglers ... like Bradley, who got torn in half in the Ardennes, and Monty had to basically rescue him from his own incompetence.
There's a reason why everyone let Monty carry the can for OVERLORD - people will for some unknown reason blame 'overwhelming weight of allied advantages' for Germans getting their shit pushed in fair and square (hmm). Go ask 21st Panzer how they felt after they surrounded the NZ division at Minqar Qaim - they called them 'Freyburg's butchers' because the Kiwis held them off easily, then blasted through them with bayonets in the night, slaughtering most of a regiment of Panzergrenadiers and regrouping at Alamein in good order. I agree that Auk and O'Connor were really good leaders who don't get the respect they deserve (take it up with Churchill - actual drunken imbecile).
Our old mate Rommel should have died back in France; what an absurd character, zooming around in his armored car behind the lines taking entire battalions of Frenchmen prisoner ... why one or more of them didn't just shoulder their rifle and blow his fucking brains out is a mystery for the ages. History is often irritating.
*Fr33-den-d4ll has left the server*
*paTTon has joined the server*
*R0mm3L [AoE] has left the server*
(axis) R0mm3L [AoE]: I'm going for beers Italy sold me out
(axis) benny-tow: lol whatever you say
(axis) Mess3: watchoo talkin bout rommel
You should do a special on Paul Hausser!
@Bobby Every episode is a great investment of research, time, and money. We do our best to cover the action of this war every single week and to bring you special episodes regularly, but we can't do it without your support! Join the TimeGhost Army on Patreon and help us to make more of those specials www.patreon.com/join/timeghosthistory
I've noticed it before, but seeing their faces side by side really drives home how much Indy resembles McArthur. It's kind of astonishing.
To say that Erwin Rommel is a defeatist is a little unfair. Withdrawing would give the Axis a stronger defence, and would give Rommel units he could use to attack the allies or as a firebrigade. Rommel also argued that the North Africa campaign were lost and should withdraw to save men and material that could be used in the defence of Sicily and Italy
The thing is after Stalingrad which put a huge psychological blow to Hitler and loss of face for Nazis , any sensible idea of abandoning ground that was impossible to defend , was labeled as defeatist by Hitler , Nazis , Mussolini and Commando Supremo. They were in a desperate image rectification
But the point was that by now allied air and naval supremacy in the Med was such that evacuation was not possible. Fighting it out would buy more time, but those men were as doomed as those at Stalingrad.
This is the first episode I’ve ever seen Indy say any sort of good bye on the phone 😆
A bunch of people gave him grief about never saying goodbye last week. Guess he really does read the comments!
One request.....Could you iron the Union Jack, please?
It’s kinda like Friedendall is the Herbert Sobel of the general staff.
Axis learns to its cost that the Allies do Total War better than they do.
Love how when reading out the Time Ghost Member of the Week Indy accidentally (or deliberately?) slipped into Swedish when saying "eller" instead of "or"! :D
"Rommel....you magnificent bastard.....I READ YOUR BOOK!!!!"
The one about infantry warfare? What relevance did that have?
@@dovetonsturdee7033 It's a movie reference. See the film "Patton" with George C. Scott. Patton faces the Germans in N. Africa for the first time and wins the battle. He thinks he was facing Rommel at the time. Also the book he was referencing was titled, "The Tank in Attack".
@@sonoftherabbitpeople4737 'Panzer Greift An' was a book written by Rommel, but never finished. George C. Scott, aka Patton, could never have read it.
That is the problem with the movie. It was based on a book by Ladaslas Farago, called 'Patton - Ordeal & Triumph' which was not so much a biography as a hagiography. The so-called Battle of El Guettar, portrayed in the movie as a triumph, was at best an indecisive skirmish against the weak German 10th Panzer Division, which had around 50 tanks.
10th Panzer had never been part of the Afrika Korps, and only actually came under Rommel's direct command for a few days, at Kasserine. The Afrika Korps itself was at Mareth at the time, being defeated, before being largely destroyed shortly afterwards at Wadi Akarit. At the time, it was part of the Italian 1st Army Group, commanded by General Messe.
The 1970 has a lot to answer for. Historically, it is about as accurate as Star Wars, but most people today, if they think of Patton at all, know little about his actual record, but believe fervently in the heroic George C. Scott version.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 I cant help that, it's in the movie.
I have officially caught up. A couple months ago (October? November?) I started watching everything bar the Timeghost Updates and the HoI streams.
Week by Week, WaH, S&T, Homefront, Bio Specials, Special Specials, Portrait Gallery, OOtF, AtA, even the equipment breakdowns, all in upload order. I distinctly remember trying and failing to slam through all six hours of Pearl Harbor before midnight on New Year’s Eve.
I have no earthly way of knowing which way this war is going-but I do know that I’ll only learn more, and TG quality will only get better. Excelsior!
@Polar Vortex That is so great to read that you're enjoying these series so much! Thank you for your dedication, and please do stay tuned so we can all watch this war unfold together. Excelsior!
11:45 Indy looks a lot like MacArthur in this shot.
My great aunt and uncle were both translators at Bletchley (also, they were asked to translate at the Nuremberg Trials, but couldn't face it and turned it down.)
My great Aunt revealed once the 50 year official secrets act period was up that she translated a message from Rommel to Hitler after the second battle of El Alamein, saying "The Afrika Korps is spent."
So... Given how late in the day Hitler tended to get up, it's quite possible my great Aunt knew before Hitler that the Allies were going to ultimately win in North Africa.
And she had to sit on this knowledge for 50 years! Officially they both worked for the "Foreign Office" during the war, and we only founded out any of this during the first round of Bletchley declassifications.
Thanks for sharing about them, Michael. That is quite fascinating.
The madness of war is about to gear up to a new level.
79 years later and Russian forces still driving at Kharkov and experiencing heavy losses, only this time, swasticas are on vehicles comming from the east...
At 06:57 ... the Totenkopf and Das Reich Divisions are mixed up ... it highlights the 3rd SS Panzer Division when talking about Das Reich and then highlights 2nd SS Panzer Division when talking about Totenkopf. Also at this stage were they still classified as SS Panzergrenadier Divisions? I think it was after Kursk that 1, 2 & 3 SS Divisions became Panzer divisions?
Please don't take this as me being nitpicky ... I love this series and its accuracy so just trying to help.
@Sam Thank you, we appreciate the feedback & we're thankful to have such a keen, engaged audience in the TimeGhost Army to help us make this series what it is.
It should be noted that the SS divisions mentioned here often took extremely high casualties in their operations, in excess of 75 % at times. This shows the utter disregard for human life in armies of dictatorships. Even their most favoured units can simply be thrown into the meat grinder to the glorification of their criminal leaders. The men of the SS were of course war criminals themselves, but we should remember this pointless carnage not as heroism, but as reminders to defend democracy and the sanctity of human life. Dictatorships turn everyone in them into criminals and victims, often at the same time.
Very insightful comment, thank you.
Some of this is because the generals and other officers in those divisions were in their positions because of their political views, not their military merits.
@@steved5495 The first generations of SS officers were highly trained and motivated, as they were actual elite formations then. These men suffered very high casualties, since they were expected to lead from the front. The high casualties in general come from the culture of "beautiful death" imparted in SS training and the esprit de corps they had, of glorifying violence and racial superiority thinking. Some of their leaders were extremely career-minded and wanted SS to get recognition equal to Wehrmacht and then led their men into the most difficult of battles. We shall see in later episodes how they were used as fire brigades or "corset tighteners" of weak spots on the Eastern Front. So it is a combination of factors. They were called "political soldiers" in the Nazi Germany so of course politics did play a major part in their fate.
@@majormoolah5056 Their fanaticism held them in good stead on defense, as they would hold out longer than other soldiers. Their skill in the offense was rather lacking, though that might be because I'm more familiar with their efforts in the West which was later in the war.
@@steved5495 Its not really possible to gauge the performance of a given division in a vacuum. The German situation on the West after D-Day was so bleak that any offensives by them was guaranteed to fail. So it was not a case of Germans being bad but Americans being great. As we saw in this weeks episode, those SS divisions could have good combat performance in Manstein's backhand blow and they would inflict great losses in Zitadelle. It should also be noted that Waffen-SS went through a massive transformation during the war. Initially they were a very small elite force, in the last two years they were a massive organization with all sorts of divisions, from counter-insurgency to death squads to elite Panzer formations. It is a complex topic.
Never miss an episode 🇺🇸
@Clarkké Thank you for watching
@@WorldWarTwo 👍
I'm sorry, what maps are your using under your battle overlays? Russian, German, civilian maps?
We mostly use British topographic maps from during WWII that are freely accessible here: library.mcmaster.ca/wwii-topographic-map-series