Is Gatekeeping Music Ever Warranted?
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- čas přidán 10. 08. 2023
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I am baffled by people being mad that Say Yes to Heaven became mainstream like, do they realize it was only properly released like 3 months ago?? Before hand, any perception of the song was a leak. It didn’t become mainstream because it suddenly gained popularity, it became mainstream because Lana released it! Of course it’s going to go mainstream!
same here. i was so excited when i found out Say Yes to Heaven was properly released, and it's so freakin' confusing when people are mad about it.
Also Lana del Rey is nr 33 of the world on Spotify, bestie IS mainstream. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but it's just insane to deny that
@@lampje5185 Lana del Ray stans in particular are obsessed with thinking they're "not like the others". Lana's music being mainstream means they've lost part of their "not like the others" mentality
@@floofzykitty5072 i'm a huge lana fan and i totally agree with you. except i'm the opposite and i try to make everyone listen to her lol
@@floofzykitty5072it also doesn’t help she has like a million unreleased stuff that feeds into the feeling of it being “niche” when in reality most of her unreleased work is already well known especially in this generation
Gatekeeping is good for certain things but...*not* this...this is hilarious tho
what even does deserve to be gatekept? lmao
@@oddsausage1286 idk lmao lemme rephrase it
For how humans work, is it really a strange concept at all? I think it’s unfortunately normal and in our nature
you dont know what gatekeeping is. only i do. nobody else does only me
@@ASTRALPROD LMAO
BIBBLE DOES NOT APPROVE GATEKEEPING especially if it’s a small artist 🤨🙄
ikr bibble
yes bibble you ate that
thank you bibble
you ended them bibble
i read that as bible which was funny asf and then i realized it said bibble with the pfp and it got so much funnier
As someone who's grown up in the punk scene - _Yes._ It is absolutely warranted and sometimes necessary to gatekeep music. If the punk scene wasn't being gatekept back in the 80s, it would've been overrun with neo-nazis. And I'm not saying that lightly, it is a fucking truth. Not at skinheads are nazis, but a lot of them were and they _needed_ to be kicked out of shows to keep the scene safe. The point of punk is to provide a community for those who have none, for people who've been turned away from everywhere else. Do no harm and take no shit, that's the motto. Nazis have no place here.
I agree with you but I think that’s a different situation. That’s more about not allowing certain people in certain spaces, as in punk shows and bars and clubs etc, which yeah, absolutely warranted when those people are Nazis, but the spaces are what people are gatekeeping, not the music itself. You can’t really stop people from listening to whatever music on their own, even if you do kick them out of the artists’ shows. Plus I don’t think that’s really what Dev’s looking at specifically, like there’s a difference between wanting an element of exclusivity in a movement and sub-culture with a heavy political element like punk, vs just not wanting a song by your favourite pop artist to blow up on Tik Tok. I think that’s two different conversations but you and Dev are both right.
I mean, I love punks. A lot of my friends are punks. But punks as a community can be some of the rudest and most intolerant people, nazi or not. Also... nazi punks are most definitely a thing now unfortunately, so good thing they didn't do all that for nothing. For the record I agree wholeheartedly with your message but that's not gatekeeping lol. And punks gatekeep harder than the dude asking you to name three Zeppelin songs because you bought their shirt at a Walmart
@@trashbrainnnthat's the thing it's not a community it's never worked really like a community was meant to be counter culture. Kinda why organization is so bad in the punk scene for the most part
there’s a difference between kicking bigots out of the scene and saying “i don’t want this song to get popular :(“
@@vozera723 Yeah, no offense, but if you've ever been to even one local punk show, you can see it definitely has a sense of community. It's its own sub culture at this point, which can be a double-edged sword for sure, don't get me wrong. But what you're describing is like, James Merendino movie punk lol. It doesn't work that way in real life.
Being a fan of someone before they blow up and watching them blow up is one of the best feelings you can have as a fan imo
YESSSS I LOVE BEING ABLE TO BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT THEM AND SEE THEM SUCCEED!!!
I really really enjoy the way Dev talks about the culture around music and it’s consumption and our relationship with artists. It gives off the vibes of having a really fun intelligent nuanced conversation with someone.
You can tell that she takes her time to think logically about these different scenarios so that she can provide (imo) one of the best, most researched takes on the internet
another example is cellophane by fka twigs! a lot of her fans did not want people's introduction to her to be a miss piggy cover of her song
I don't think it was AI I think it was an impression
@@droctogonapus1223 yea ur right actually but regardless
the miss piggy cover is how I found out about fka twigs :D
@@dramaticcheese_Are u Proud of Urself.
it’s so frustrating that such a beautiful sad song is now just forever miss piggyfied
after mitski went super viral on tiktok, a bunch of mitski fans started posting about how the behavior of the crowds at her concerts was changing. there would be people watching her performances and screaming these meme-y phrases at her while she was trying to perform, which a lot of people associated with the style of joke about mitski that gained popularity primarily on tiktok and twitter, and people laughing at or mocking her performance style. which like, yeah if you were inundated in an online space that treated mitski like a sort of walking mental illness meme and didn't actually care about how and why she performs the way she does, you might feel entitled to be rude and obnoxious to her
i'm not saying i don't want my fav artists to be successful, i'm glad she's gotten the recognition she deserves and i was initially excited for her to gain a wider audience, but i also think there's a very real way that music and musicians become commodified when they achieve popularity, especially on the internet and social media, and i think it's fair to feel frustrated by that without trying to dictate other people's harmless behaviors. encountering disrespectful fans and having to share space with people you don't like are maybe an inevitable consequence of a growing fandom, and it's not an excuse to be rude to people solely for being new fans, but i understand the frustration with the way rising fame or "trending" music causes people to act
I once asked a metal head for music recommendations because I love broading my music taste and listening to things I haven't heard before. They tried to gatekeeping nine inch nails from me. Nine ich nails. Because I didn't look alt enough. If I knew more about the history of alt communities at the time I would've ripped through them for being a poser, you don't have to look a certain way to listen to any genre of music that's just stupid.
goooood i love NIN though
It's so true! I remember watching SLC Punk and not understanding how Mike could be part of the punk tribe but look like a preppy kid. Fast forward 20 years and I'm a huge metal head but I dress mostly in athleisure wear because it's comfy. I don't "look the part" at all. People are surprised when my playlists are full of rock and metal. I'm just too lazy and too cheap to wear and buy items to "look the part". Wear what you want and listen to what pleases you.
gatekeeping seems to be very common in the metal community (at least in my experience), especially towards women and people who listen to more mainstream/popular metal
I have a to-the-skin "taxi driver" mohawk and I mostly listen to dilla beats lol
TV Girl is a HUGE example of this topic!!! I have been a super fan since high school (7 years), and as soon as "Not Allowed," became TikTok famous, I can't get a ticket to their show. They sell out SO fast, because of that song. I am happy for the band, and those who discovered TV Girl! But I also want to have fun...save a girl a ticket
Wish i could see them live, I really like their songs!
@@theyluvtwoset.13 exactlyyyy but the tix sell out so fast now 😭
personally i gatekeep this artist called drake. barely anyone knows him. if u think u do, no u dont ❤️
ugh you listen to drake 🖐️🙄 how about you listen to a REAL underground artist, like taylor swift. smh, posers everywhere.
@@notyourdaughter666no no no .. ur the poser, I know you’ve never heard of Beyoncé 🙄 get real
or my queen no one knows about, lana del ray obviii
My favorite band Superheaven is getting popular on TikTok after an 8 year hiatus and they just started touring again so I’m losing my shit cuz that means they might be working on new stuff it just makes me so fucking happy, even if their song is used for memes, fuck it, it’s cuz it’s a good song, man ❤
youre so real for this im so glad superheaven is getting recognized
i’ve been listening to them for a couple years too and at first i was a little annoyed that it was getting bigger on tiktok but honestly i realised it’s kinda dumb to feel that way. it’s great for them, they deserve it and i’m glad they’re being recognised more now, i hope they release more music too!! two albums wasn’t enough all their music is amazing and i’m so excited for it
Tysm for this video. Like I LOVE Mitski. She is my favorite singer and I wholeheartedly believe her music is one of the best sad music made, and her metaphors and lyricism are fantastic. Recently, she went on tour, and she is blowing up on titkok because she is releasing a new album in September. I am so incredibly proud of her and happy for her. I think she deserves so much more. I am so happy shes getting recognized for her talent, and her being popular makes it easier for me to connect with other fans who loves her music just as much, so i never truly understood gatekeeping. Anyway, i love ur vids Dev! And ive recently listened to your new music with nick and its truly a vibe ive never heard before. Its so beautifully unique and slay.
YES!! I LOVE MITSKI SM
YEAHHH MITSKI FOREVER MITSKI IS FOR EVERYONE
Mitski blowing up 2020 was hell though, as a long-time fan. "Strawberry Cow" was a dark, dark day.
I love that you brought up mitski, it’s so interesting being a younger mitski fan who discovered her from TikTok a couple years ago as it feels like sometimes I am one of the people that people were trying to ‘gatekeep’ her from. But I am a massive fan and she’s been my favourite artist since i discovered her. I am not any less of a fan for finding her from TikTok as a massive majority if her fans did. I see a lot of people complain about younger fans going to concerts and taking up space, I might be going to her concert soon for the new album and I’d hate older fans to think that I just like her because she’s popular online, younger fans are equally as much of fans as the older ones are
last year mitski spoke out about disliking the "sad girl music" label that people have associated with her work, which ironically happened because she was blowing up on tiktok and she caught wind of the label. that's no reason to gatekeep an artist of course, but i can understand her frustration when dealing with a new wave of fans who (in the typical tiktok fashion) consume media by forcing it to fit a certain archetype or aesthetic rather than letting someone's art exist as is.
This is a great time to mention some of my fav smallish artists
- MIDORINOMARU (japanese jazz)
- Heigh Chief (vintage country?)
- Hierophants (post punk/ new wave rock)
- Dinosaur 88 (synth pop/punk)
- TRI4TH (japanese punk rock jazz)
- Jonathan Carrion (spanish rock)
- Alter Ego (japanese instrumental jazz)
- BimBomBam Orchestra (trumpet jazz)
- Notes From The Underground (light indie?)
- Nick DeLaurentis (upbeat)
- Bruno Major (just because he is my fav artist, by no means small but I would love for more people to enjoy his work)
if you can't tell I really enjoy japanese jazz, all forms
@@teaffairythanks for the recs ^^ you might have already heard of them, but i’ll additionally recommend midori (ミドリ)! japanese jazz-punk (-:
i love bruno major and have since maybe 2018?? and it was so surreal seeing some of his songs absolutely blow up over the last couple years
the only thing i dislike about songs getting "tiktokified" is when people listen to the song that's popular then, when they find that the rest of their music isn't their style, they say that the artist only has a few good songs.
(for those saying it's just an opinion: sure, but why outwardly be rude and call most of someone's music bad, which insults not only their style but their skill as an artist and the validity of enjoying their music? i mean, there's nothing inherently "bad" or "good" about any style of music. it's probably more accurate and more polite to just say "i don't like this". when it comes to artists who aren't causing any harm, i think it's just kinder to keep our unfiltered thoughts to ourselves. do what you want though, it's just about being nice.)
I mean yeah subjectivity couple good songs for the person man who cares
Why can't they think the artist only has a few good songs?
@@nevadanate4957 They can think what they like I think what op is saying is the kind of person who will try and pass off like their opinion is the gospel truth on the matter when a lot of others probably enjoy those songs. Its lame to crap on somebody's choice of music
@olivertheked8631 if someone words their opinion as a fact it's still an opinion... "crapping on" = disliking. People can in fact dislike and say bad things about a thing you like, and you will be fine.
I will say though that this isn't really a gatekeeping thing its more of people shoving their opinions down peoples throats thats kind of dumb
I do the opposite of gatekeeping with my friends. I show them so much music and am secretly heartbroken when they don't like it
same bro but usually it doesnt happen to me because my friends have similar taste to me lol
If you think a song/artist is good, SHARE IT!
Nooooooo, you please don’t make me do it! 😭😭
no bc especially when yall be treating artist like shit and then want to use their music in ur latest tiktok trend, its frustrating. i keep my gems hidden.
Some people, such as myself, are neurodivergent and get fixations or special interests on music, and they can be really sacred and personal to us and so we don’t share it except with people who are really close to us and we can trust. Like a lot of peoples music taste is really personal to them, so they don’t really want to go around sharing it with anyone and everyone. That feels like a violation. And it sucks when you spend all this time loving something and keeping it to yourself to enjoy and then it becomes some dumb trend and people don’t even enjoy the music but the trend.
no thanks
idk like i won't GATEKEEP but i don't really wanna shareeee it... cuz if like an artist i really like that's like a somewhat small artist got popular on tiktok i feel like no one would like..... take them seriously?? idk. like i would want people to ACTUALLY listen to the songs or smt and i feel as if like people would hear it but not really like idk, REALIZE how good it is?? idfkkkkkk. i would really try to like think positively though, if one of my favorite small artists did get super popular on tiktok. but honestly i'm open to show like my friends and stuff
I only gatekeep in my brain. No one will know what songs I don’t want to be used for cringe TikTok trends. I don’t judge anyone for finding songs from TikTok either bc I do too sometimes.
I found a fantastic Vietnamese artist Hoang Thuy Linh through that See Ting dance. She's a great singer.
8:50 if the song is licensed that means that Beach Bunny signed off on the song being used. It's up to Beach Bunny to preserve the song's meaning by being selective about which brands/ads can use it if that's what they want
Personally I don't gatekeep my perfect music taste because if nobody knows the songs I like they cant compliment me on my perfect music taste
Literally exactly my thought process lol you WILL listen to this and you WILL like it bc my taste in music is just sooooo good
RIGHT i _crave_ metalhead friends my age 😭 like someone PLEASE agree with me so we can listen to my music in the car together!!
@@666_cthulhu right?? Like I need some punk friends BADLY
@@DeadPartyGirl they’re the best 😫😫 good luck bro
@@666_cthulhu thanks man! you too. Good to have people to nerd-out over good music with.
They were so busy gatekeeping that they forgot the other two key steps, gaslight and girlboss
From an ex gatekeeper, I would only force myself to listen to music that I thiught would make me look cool to other people, but I found more comfort in listening to mainstream music. The only con is when they wear band merch like a brand and cant name the lead singer. I cry everytime but its okay 👍
I would like to offer a different point of view: ive been thinking of buying a shirt from a band which i like 3 songs at most (and i definitely dont know the singers name), but these songs changed my life so much i even made a giant painting about one of them. Im anxious about this though because i dont want to be that person youre talking about, but the band is so meaningful to me in a different way!
@@chiariscuro this part. You shouldn't have to know shit about a band except you like something about them. Hell I literally don't care if people are wearing band merch without knowing anything about it as long as the artists are getting supported by the purchase. Sometimes designs are cool and that's enough
@@chiariscuro Honestly, there are so many bands out there that i like, like four songs from, but I was trying to say people who wear band tees as like, a “trend” because its “cool”. I think it makes the experience and relativity of deep meaning music and bands that have gotten people through tough times into more of a just a generic “brand”. But your view is valid even as an alternative side of mine : )
You’re still a gate keeper if you care about people wearing shirts. You honestly look like a dork if you’re asking people who the lead singer of a band is far more than the person wearing the shirt.
@@soltheramperson8667thank you! And yeah, in that case i agree with you
Some scenes based around music are as much about the culture it fosters as the music itself. I’m thinking about diy punk/hardcore, industrial, goth, whatever. A lot of those genres have the music *itself* participate in the gatekeeping by being grating to the uninitiated. It’s because these scenes value their culture, based around actually attending local shows and supporting local scenes, putting on house shows, buying merch, and yes often a certain attitude or aesthetic. I don’t think this form of gatekeeping and not appreciating people engaging with the music who don’t respect or understand the culture surrounding it because they were exposed to it in a way that was divorced from the culture, when the culture is integral to the music, is understandable.
Another example that comes to mind is hyperpop, a genre whose predecessors were majority trans and queer, upon becoming more known by non-trans and queer people, those people co-opted the genre in a way that overshadows and doesn’t adequately respect its trans roots. And when trans and queer fans, not wanting cis men who are totally ignorant of or even sometimes against trans rights taking this trans genre and profiting from it, try to keep them out of the scene, they are disregarded and accused of gatekeeping. I think that’s messed up.
So basically yea I think in certain circumstances gatekeeping is OK
This is so well said. It seems like a lot of folks underestimate how much cultural identity ties in to music. When so much of your connection to music is based on the culture you associate with it and people who don't feel like they belong to or value that culture come along it's natural to feel like that culture is being threatened, either in terms of your own connection to it or losing the actual community formed around it. Unnecessarily excluding people and rooting for artists to be less commercially successful are questionable behaviors but I can't really blame people for feeling a sense of loss when something that used to feel like participating in a community starts to feel more like just purchasing a commodity.
I recently found your music, and I’ve been showing it to anyone who will listen since I think it’s really good and I want your music to do well. I will never understand gate keeping music
Me too!
bros doing tricks on it
Gatekeeping is cringe unless it's against horrible people such as misogynists, transphobes, homophobes, etc, that's the one exception I will make.
you can spread awareness about the horrible stuff an artist did but actively starting to gatekeep them and try to shame people for listening to them is weird in my opinion
@@antoine7611 That is not what I meant whatsoever, I meant gatekeeping pieces of shit from a genre/artist so it's a safe space.
@@dethmetalhed9178I’m so scared of my favorite band car seat headrest’s fanbase being infiltrated by homophobes and transphobes
this is such a wild comment to the point where i dont think you know what gatekeeping is
@@maggotqu33n i think the comment directly above yours is more of what op was talking about. i think it can be applied in direct, one-on-one interactions in real life or online.
I wasn’t a fan of Tyler the creator until an old friend of mine in high school took me to his concert. Granted I listened to his album over and over again weeks in advance so I knew what I’d be screaming at the top of my lungs. But you’re right, don’t gatekeep art! It’s a beautiful thing that must be shared, just like other beautiful experiences.
i think for a few things, gatekeepjng is neccessary for both the vision of the artist and for the culture surrounding that music to be protected. nirvana and punk are two good examples of this. kurt cobain was very adiment about who his music was for and made a considerable effort to make sure that the people who really gave a fuck would follow HIS manifesto than the one of the mainstream media. punk as a subculture has been heavily commercialised over the years, but the core of the subculture has been kept alive by gatekeepers who make sure that the culture exists in its original form and to rid itself of posers, bigots and fascists. but for music like taylor swift or 100gecs, there's no reason to gatekeep their music since neither have a defined culture or agenda. just music, innit?
Artists gatekeeping their own music and fans gatekeeping artists music are very different things
@@twite5462 if the fans follow the manifesto of the artist, it's the same thing.
My local punk scene embraces even those who arent punk as long as theyre respectful and chill. I never know what band theyre talking about but the fact im there and willing to spend some time is enough for them.
@@chiariscuro that's apart of the preservation of the culture, to introduce others into it in its purest form. you can't have a culture without others involved. the issue is people who see it as a fashion or strictly non-political or worse: fascist. so you're chill to be punk, just don't be an idiot and disrespect the culture.
EXACTLY. Gatekeeping is more common in alternative scenes and people think that it’s so bad and cringe but I say it’s not and it’s necessary. Lots of alternative artists don’t even want popularity, that would be an insult to them rather than a compliment (myself included.) I really don’t like this idea that gatekeeping is the worst thing you could ever do… like if you *really* want to know a song or artist, then you could find it. If you let one random person not telling you be the deciding factor if you listen to them or not then seems like you’re not actually that interested.
I think also ppl like to gatekeep to maintain the community/culture around a certain group and their music and to keep it from being diluted. Like if there’s a tight knit group of fans that want to keep their community from being “diluted” even though it’s not necessarily better for the artist (especially in scenes that have a specific political identity like punk) Plus I can understand finding a small artist feels like finding a gem in the rough and can make it easier for you to feel parasocial since you supported them back when few did and so it feels less special when more ppl learn abt them
Exactly this. And touching on “even if it’s not better for the artist” not all artists want to be big or popular especially in alt scenes. The artists want to stay in that tight knit group too.
@@charliemayfilms1550 yes yes yes this is exactly the take i've been looking for! i feel like her take is kind of "all artists want to be famous" when that is absolutely not the case
But what if other ppl wanna get into a certain community and other's won't let them? Like the amount of times I tried to find a title of a song but ppl try to gatekeep
But icl most of time ppl gatekeep things that r already popular
Ik it's different but when I see old webtoon I used to read become originals I get rlly happy for them and nostalgic
I never rlly saw how more ppl knowing something makes it less special isn't you knowing something from a popular thing wayyy b4 anyone else more of a flex or something to feel special abt
Like pokémon cards or collections and stuff like that
I feel real proud of being a og monster high fan cos I got to see it change and grow as the years grew by
Also do u recommend any songs?
You can gate keep if an artist tells you you can. If they don’t, you don’t.
i get why people gatekeep but i've always found it weird. i think that sharing the music you love with other people is such a beautiful thing & you can rly get to know someone when you dive into their music taste (no matter how mainstream it may be).
also i hate how, even in the world dominated by pop culture, "mainstream" art is still considered to be lesser than "underground" or "Independent" art, especially when it comes to music. things are popular for a reason god damn it. & you absolutely can criticize mainstream music without being annoying about it.
just for clarification , 'say yes to heaven' was recently released after it being unreleased and just called 'yes to heaven' for like a decade. lana released the original version but not the version the fanbase loved so everyone got mad lol. i love all versions and i can understand being disappointed after literally like ten years but people were so pointlessly mean and hateful because of it.
i am a diehard fan of ghost. and i have been since papa emeritus II. when mary on a cross went viral, i was so excited to see their music finally taking off more compared to when they got best metal song for square hammer. their music took off. and again, i was so happy to see it. i just went to one of their concerts less than a week ago and seeing more people going to their show warms my heart. seeing papa being so happy to have a whole theatre of people shouting the lyrics back to him made me happy. like i remember when they would barely sold out shows, and now they’re selling out massive theatres. gate keeping is horrible. i’m glad to see both ghost getting bigger and more fans coming into the fan base.
i’ve never understood gatekeeping. if you like an artist wouldn’t you want them to get the recognition they deserve?
edit: i do think the perception of a song is important so i understand why some people don’t like specific trends for a song and how that would be considered gatekeeping
I don’t really like this idea people have that every artist wants to gain high popularity/notoriety. They don’t. Especially within alternative scenes. Like for a lot of nicher artists becoming “mainstream” would be an insult not a compliment. That’s how I feel about my music.
@@charliemayfilms1550you can still be popular and not be mainstream. I'm sure there's a lot of bands who want to stay underground but I'm sure they still want growth. They still want people hearing their music
A la bands like death grips. They're huge but you talk to someone off the streets and they're probably not gonna know who the hell you're talking about
yess bibble. love you
no it's because ppl don't want to hear the song get replayed over and over again to the point of hating it. like Ed Sheeran songs are so overplayed they give me headaches now
@@tims5978 that’s not what dev discussed either way still don’t agree with gatekeeping artists or bands
The only “gatekeeping” for music I support is when the artist says “The song is not up for interpretation” (Ex. The village) and correcting people when they misuse the song, that’s literally the only time I see why you would “Gatekeep”
yes omg do not even get me started on how angry it would make me when people on tiktok would completely misuse the village even after wrabel told people that the song is about being trans and isnt up for interpretation😭😭 like that song means so much to so many trans people and the fact that cis people took it and started twisting the meaning was so annoying. idc how many people say “its just a song” because it really isnt just a song tbh
@@kalkxx I’ve gotten into multiple arguments because I’ve told people that The village isn’t up for interpretation 😭
I think this is a noble idea but ultimately you can’t hedge in art in borders like that…it’s frustrating as an artist or a loyal fan to see music misinterpreted but you can’t police everyone’s interpretation and reaction to art when you release it. It’s at the mercy of the public; many people get strong meanings from art that wasn’t the “intended” meaning, and I don’t think that’s wrong even if it can be uncomfortable.
Another example that comes to mind is tiktok making a trend out of the Black Dresses' song about the singer's experience being sexually assaulted, and then bullying them off the internet cause everyone on tiktok felt entitled to their own interpretation above respect for the artist's trauma
@@brandongore711was it specifically the song "in my mouth"? also didn't one of the singers confirm the song is not about sa, it's just that the album it's in has a few songs about sa?
the way I knew Lana would be one of the first to come up with this subject 😭
one time i was talking to someone and he mentioned liking nirvana so i was like "oh i like them too!" and he went "well you just dont listen to nirvana like i do 😔🤘 " dawg what 💀
I’d been a fan of Fountains of Wayne for literally a DECADE when they FINALLY got a hit song with Stacy’s Mom and I was so thrilled for them! When bands or artists put in the work for so long to build a devoted audience before they get big it should be all the more exciting and celebrated.
I think I only know Stacy’s mom. What other song of theirs would you recommend?
@@whitneyhendrix8075 I really like the album Utopia Parkway, specifically the songs “Red Dragon Tattoo”, “Denise”, which are fun, sharply-written, character-driven songs like “Stacy’s Mom”, and the more introspective “Troubled Times”. I listened to that album a ton right around when I was graduating from high school and at the same time helping take care of my grandmother in hospice care at home. I actually had my graduation at her bedside, in full regalia. The Head of Upper School was a beloved teacher of mine, and my parents arranged it with her so my grandmother could see her first grandchild graduate. So “Troubled Times” hit me especially hard. I hope you like them! There are lots of other great albums and b-sides floating around. So sad we’ll never have any chance for more Fountains of Wayne ever again. Adam Schlesinger died of Covid in 2020. 💔
MAN never thought I’d see a comment on this vid about FOW of all bands, but I bet that was an awesome feeling back in 2003! They have some amazing insanely catchy stuff before Stacy’s Mom and even the stuff after it is really good, they kept evolving but never too far from their power pop roots
I get so excited when I see artists that weren’t as widely known when I first found them, getting the attention they deserve on their music!!
King park by la dispute LMAO I remember riding the bus to school and blasting that and it was so emotional to me and personal 😭
I've been a 21p fan since their Vessel days, and I finally got tickets during the Trench era and brought my bf at the time who didn't really know more than 2 of their songs. After that show, he's now listened to everything from them and we sing together and enjoy their new albums together. Who knows if he ever would've gotten into 21p if he hadn't gone to the concert with me
i love tøp too and i totally made my family and friends love them too especially after going to shows :)
oof the twenty one pilots fandom was horrible around the time they blew up though... they gained a lot of new fans since stressed out got played on the radio and people did not like it, many new fans got shamed for becoming a fan because of stressed out. i'd love to see them play live though, i became fan bc of stressed out but never got to go to a concert, i only still listen to them occasionally but they have a place in my heart, hope they'll tour again soon
dude if any of my favorite small artists blew up i would be fucking elated for them!! They deserve it. They've inspired me so much and i want them to inspire others.
I remember the time tiktok tried to gatekeep sweater weather by the neighborhood as if that song doesn’t have 1billion streams on spotify.
i knew 2 front bottoms songs when i went to a concert w my friend who loves them and i loved the energy of the show and their music made me fall in love with them. i’m seeing them again tonight now loving them! hate keeping isn’t something i understand. i only like hate keeping good things from bad people
who appointed you judge? you take yourself too seriously
honestly it's really hard to do that lol. bad people will find a way to find good things.
Sometimes i don't share a song/artist with someone cause i don't think they will understand or enjoy it but it doesn't mean i don't want people that would enjoy it to listen to it
For me, there are a few songs I don't want tiktokified because they still transport me back in time to a certain feeling or situation, and having it associated with tik tok or certain people on there kind of takes the magic away. They're still good songs, and i can still enjoy them, and of course I'm happy that other people are getting to enjoy a good song they hadn't heard before. But it does strip away some level of feeling and meaning for me.
For me, the most relatable one was 'no children' by the mountain goats. I've been a mountain goat fan for years and that song got me through a very rough patch. Seeing people make ootd or vloggy tiktoks to it kinda hurt. However, I've found a lot of people that actually became huge fans of the mountain goats because of the song becoming popular. The fact that I can now wear a mountain goats shirt and very rarely get a comment on it is HUGE and makes me incredibly happy
i feel this so hard, i love the mountain goats and i especially love “no children” because its featured in one of my favorite shows, morel orel. i’ve been a fan of that show since like 2019, and subsequently the mountain goats as well.
as a swiftie and recent paramore fan I’ve seen paramore fans try and gatekeep them because they’re opening for eras…. it’s paramore.
Bro who is gatekeeping Taylor Swift 😭😭😭
@@Yourhandleneedstobeatleast no they were trying to gatekeep paramore lmao, I’ve seen people trying to gatekeep taylor too though which is worse
I think gatekeeping is a weird topic. I always want to share music to people, but I think the fear around popularization of music is that people will view the artist as "a trend", or generally as something less meaningful than they actually are.
It's not the end of the world when this does happen, but it can be frustrating when you bring up an artist, that they're suddenly from "the tiktok song", y'know?
It's a defence mechanism against disrespect, and I think people should fully accept new fans who discover something from a trend then go deeper because of it.
But it's still okay to be a bit frustrated when people are uninterested in treating an artist like something bigger
I agree. Especially after that artist blows up, suddenly their labeled a "brand new artist", even though they've been making music for 5+ years 🙄
Dev's point on steve lacy whilst true doesn't paint the picture that not even knowing the full song is insane, that's like going to a foster the people concert and knowing only the chorous, at least people used to know ONE whole song
Gatekeeping music is so wild. When I find a new artist/band that I’ve never heard anyone I know talk about I immediately want everyone to know about them.
i would never gatekeep, but as someone who follows somewhat niche artists - whenever i imagine them blowing up (which they absolutely should) there's a small nagging part of me saying "won't you miss those small, more intimate concerts?"
some artists deserve SO much more attention. i just have to fight the selfish gatekeepy thoughts sometimes lmao
yeah i know what you mean, i also have selfish gatekeepy thoughts😭 i also don't want the songs to get ruined by being overplayed, tiktok does that to everything, but then, music is supposed to be shared
I can understand that it can be annoying when a song that means a lot to you gets memeified, or over played and is everywhere, that happened to me with Ceilings by Lizzie McAlpine, I heard it so much I was worried I was gonna get sick of it. And that hearting it so much everywhere was gonna make it have less of an emotional impact when I listened to it. But I was so so pumped for Lizzie! Seeing other people find meaning in her music, seeing her preform on late night shows, get recogniton for her talent, the dramatic running videos people made, it was great! And I can still listen to it in my car when Im crying, and now other people can too!
lizzie huh? aged like milk
All these people need to do is delete tiktok and it won't be ruined for you.
This is interesting sometimes when someone makes a video to a trendy song that might be something from Cavetown about being infantilized for being trans and making it about soothing that’s not related. Or something like “little miss perfect” being something like the trend of check off what applies to you but it’s literally about coming out.
I am really glad that people were introduced to “Mary on a cross” (ghost) but it kinda sucks that little kids don’t know the honest meaning… I still like the band but it can definitely be hard though because when they become main-stream they can also become unpopular. Idk it can be hard but I understand
nostalgia is also a factor, like i was a huge fan of dodie since before she was on spotify and i miss the small community feel of it. I never gatekept but i think that could influence some people to feel weirdly possessive.
when i was a kid i was bullied a LOT for liking anime, so much that i didnt tell anyone and i didnt let my friends come in my room in case they saw the one figurine i had imported from japan. now as an adult, it's mainstream, and some of the people that made fun of me for it like it now.
you know what? im really glad. Theres more mech in the USA now, anime conventions are getting huge and i can actually enjoy my interests publically.
it sometimes sucks when something private and special gets put on blast (especially if it gets memed) but ultimately it's better for everyone in most cases. more content for you to enjoy, more people to connect with, and it supports the creators to keep making more content.
Respectfully, I think gatekeeping's a necessary evil. I don't want artists to stay small or underground, I don't want to discourage any new fans, I don't even care if people make cringe videos to a song I love, but I *do* however think that sometimes it's important to preserve the communities around certain artists. Concerts selling out because someone/something blew up on tiktok sucks for long time fans sure, but what sucks more is the concerts being saturated by people who've never been in the scene before, who don't know the culture or etiquette around an artist or genre. People who don't know how to conduct themselves respectfully or safely in that environment. It's not about being different, it's not about wanting to hide an artist from the mainstream, it's not even really about preserving an artists "image", it's about preserving the community and experiences built around that artist. It's about making sure the fans who show up to rock and metal concerts know mosh etiquette, it's about making sure the fans going to music festivals know what precautions to take and how to watch out for each other, it's about making sure these communities stay a safe space for fans.
I can't speak on most other subcultures, but the punk/alternative scene has been so commercialized and damaged because of tiktok (not that tiktok hasn't also helped with the exposure and growth of the scene) that it's hard to keep the quality of the community without gatekeeping even just a little. Tiktok has a tendency to make a lot of things into trends or aesthetics, which is perfectly fine for fashion or hobbies or even just listening to the music on its own. But when people who're following a trend interact directly with other fans and the scene as a whole, it becomes a much bigger issue that they don't know the culture around what they've hastily and halfheartedly thrown themselves into.
And all this is without mentioning the people who *do not* get or understand an artists message and end up inserting themselves into a fanbase where they then behave and conduct themselves as the absolute antithesis of what the artist stands for. That isn't really a problem for most pop music and uncontrovertial artists, but music is political, especially punk music. It's important in those communities to push out the "bad apples" that could spoil the entire ecosystem of the fanbase and potentially make it unsafe for the rest of us.
this reminds me of the concert where mitski was the opener for Harry styles. and alot of the ppl who came to see harrwere being super disrespectful to her cuz they didn't understand her artistry..
A fanbase isn't a community bro
@@lukeshioshio in a lot of alternative subcultures, it is.
It's up to the artist/management of the artist of how they cater to their audience. If they really cared about you "hardcore" fans, they wont change. Also, how are people going to understand the etiquette if they don't experience it themselves?
the point on "know mosh etiquette" "concerts being saturated by people who've never been in the scene before" "who don't know the culture or etiquette around an artist or genre" how did YOU get into rock and metal? you knew from birth to know mosh etiquette, and you've ALWAYS been in the scene since birth? you always knew the culture around your artists and genre's? no, you haven't the thing with being a new fan is you have to learn everything like YOU once learned. if we were to stop letting others experience new things, your type of music will die out because they're dirven out by fans like you who hate them because they're new. everyone won't always know everything about everything, you could always be respectful and teach a new fan about the culture itself. but you immediately shit on them because they're a new follower. not everyone will know the culture, ESPECIALLY new fans.
lemme ask this: are they an immediate ""bad apple"" because they're new to the community?
and since people are gatekeeping music, how will they know what to learn or not? all articles i have seen about that type of stuff are people who obviously don't know what they're talking about. because no old fans are speaking out on what to properly do, now we have new fans dabbling in and trying to speak on a topic they don't know about because no one's taught them what to do, specifically older fans.
I don’t see the reason why people would gatekeep music when i find a great artist such as Lord Lemquad i show as many people as i can
I've never understood the concept of gatekeeping. If I love a song, I want everyone around me to get that same joy I get from listening to it. Yes, it may be special to be one of the few fans of a musician/artist you think is really talented, but is it not even more special for that musician to blow up and for you to have been one of their earliest fans, and can then celebrate their success?
One of my favorite things people gatekeep is Taylor Swift. As if she’s indie and not one of the most famous people on earth
ugh I've met so many of the "name three songs" type
The fact that a lot of the music I enjoy now are from getting popular on tiktok. I wouldn’t have found one of my favorite artists if it wasn’t posted on tiktok.
i honestly love introducing people to artists, especially smaller or niche ones. It feels kind of like YOU are singlehandedly helping out the artist. and i get so proud if the person I introduce it to ends up being a fan!
I’ve only attempted to gatekeep music once, it was an ex friend of mine (straight male) who was a lesbian fetishiser and I got upset because he listened to girl in red and I was scared he was going to find it hot or some weird ass shit
also as a disclaimer I think anyone can listen to her just please don’t fetishise lesbian relationships it’s weird as hell thanks
As an old person (32) i've seen so many artist who I loved when they were small blow up and become mainstream and it makes me so happy because it means they make enough money to keep making music for years to come vs the bands i loved who never blew up and had to come out and say "sorry we can't keep playing because we can't afford to and we need to work regular 9-5s now because we are 30 and broke. thanks to our supporters. sorry we failed" and then you never hear from them again.
your videos surrounding artists, music, fans and the culture around it all have become my new favorite genre of content to watch
The only time ive been inclined to gatekeep recently was when Running Up That Hill went viral because of stranger things. Ive been listening to Kate Bush since i can remember (my mom discovered her in high school and passed her onto me), so it was weird to see a song I've been listening to forever go viral. But mostly, i just wanted people to listen to more Kate Bush because she's amazing and i want more people to understand my love for her! So yeah, still don't really understand gatekeeping, but i get the frustration when just one song by an artist goes viral
I’ve never enjoyed gatekeeping because my favorite artists and bands are so underrated and seldom known by other people, and that just breaks my heart because I want people to talk about their music with!!! Literally every time I meet someone who listens to them or I get a friend into their stuff, I get SUCH a boost of happiness both because this artist is getting more appreciation, and more selfishly, because I gain a new person who I can talk to about all the things we love about the music.
I’d fucking KILL for Glass Beach and Origami Angel to blow up, yet I see other fans of them wanting to gatekeep them and it annoys the shit out of me. Hell, if you’re reading this and you’re interested in fifth wave emo/pop punk/math rock, please give them a listen, they changed my life!!! Fuck gatekeeping!!!!
i just listened to a couple songs from Origami Angel because of your comment and so far i'm obsessed :)) ty for helping me find new music i like and not being a gatekeeper xx
@@stargurl__211 OMGGG I’m so glad you like them!!! Their stuff is the best, it’s got such positive messages too! I’m really happy to have made someone else a fan :)
i'd kill for Lamp to get famous too, but in America. They're famous in Japan though. (at least i don't think they're that famous here?)
i want everyone to love things i like. any time i find some new artist i like, i send their songs or videos to all my friends.
and i don't think a trend has to take away anything from the song. there are songs that i have a huge emotional connection to but someone else doing a silly dance to them doesn't change it.
for me, the part that makes me feel 'different' is spending time discovering new artists and sharing them with people.
such a good vid omg love when dev dives into these cool topics love her take on this
Thank you for bringing a funny, kind, and inclusive perspective to the music-tube/music lover community. We need more people like you around
the experience you had with 21 pilots is something that kind of happened to me with Panic at the Disco. I knew their panic songs like I Write Sins Not Tragedies, Mona Lisa, This Is Gospel. I didn't know any of the other songs that played, but I was with my cousin who knew every word of every song. I ended up loving the songs that were performed from the album they were touring (Death Of A Bachelor). I looked back at the songs later on and I wished I listened to the album before I went
The only time I have ever gatekeeped an artist/song is when it was anything kpop relate from certain people. For example, a girl who I went to high school with who was definitely racist and made fun of kpop, now claims to love kpop. That is very frustrating considering how she literally said it was "weird" that I listened to kpop. That is the only time I have ever thought gatekeeping is acceptable.
speaking of getting into music: a week ago I decided to finally listen to your newest ep; dude, it’s been on for me nonstop. i have these songs playing in my head 24/7. love delusional so much and i hope it blows up wherever it needs to for you to get your applause
i think when ppl say songs are “tiktokified” i assume they mean a trend was made to it that sucks ass and it makes them feel differently about the song. like i have seen ppl get upset that ED trends, racist trends, ableist trends, and sometimes just “annoying” trends end up being done to songs that they enjoy
i’m against gatekeeping, BUT i will say that it is frustrating when a rlly good artist gets popular thru one song for a reason usually unrelated to their music being good, resulting in them not actually gaining any popularity from it.
great example of the 1st thing i mentioned being glass animals getting a spike in popularity bc someone made AN MCYT SHIP FANFIC 😧 based around (+ named after) one of their songs, and the song got boosted on tiktok bc of it b4 every1 j forgot abt them =((
personally i feel very connected to the music i listen to, so having a great artist get very temporary popularity from only a single song feels like they aren’t getting what they truly deserve (that being genuine listeners and long-lasting popularity), which is rlly sad and disappointing. this is why i find it upsetting when a great artist has one song get popular on tiktok. i’m not unhappy w the popularity that song gets, i’m unhappy w how that popularity isn’t going towards the actual artist + their music as a whole, but rather towards a song being treated as nothing more than a trend
sat down to eat and there was no new dev limes vid to watch, then i saw this was uploaded. THANK YOU FOR MY ENRICHMENT TIME DEV!
I love watching you with generally everything you do! I would also LOVE some more videos with that chaotic energy dating app / messing with others too! So good!
4:17 I understand what they mean the moment a song that you love goes viral on TikTok you hate the song because they burn it to the ground. you hear it so often you hate it. Like whatever radio stations play the same 20 songs every hour.
The one time I can think I would've liked gatekeeping is mitski. People who got into her music often misunderstood her messages in her songs. And she was already popular, like she was making ok money off of her music.
Edit: I'd also die if a tik toker danced to please eat or angels of porn by Nicole Dollanganger or pretty bones by yeule
i kinda understand why people gatekeep niche music in certain situations. yes its annoying but if that type of music has been downlooked by the same people who suddenly change their minds when it's popular, then i think for the og fans its rlly irritating 😅 i still understand devs take tho i get how it can be annoying if music is gatekept
hi dev "you tear me apart" is my #3 most listened to song this year so far i listen to it while i clean and through an entire plane ride
this was beautiful thank you
Being mad your fans only know one part of a song discounts the adrenaline that comes from seeing your idols perform. I was obsessed with a song that Hatsune Miku sings called Secret Police (produced by buriru-p) and there’s one part where she shouts ‘wo miru’ and the audience is expected to shout it with her at concerts. I LOVE this song. I used to blast it in my car constantly. It was one of the first non-English songs I put effort into learning the chorus of. I had a messenger bag with art of Miku’s outfit from it I used for years and everything. But when I saw her live I got SO EXCITED I forgot how to shout ‘wo miru.’ You may be thinking ‘that’s a second language, not the same thing!’ THEY PUT IT ON SCREEN NEXT TO HER AND I WAS STILL TOO EXCITED FOR MY BRAIN TO PROCESS THOSE WERE MY MISSING WORDS. If she held out her mic and refused to sing and it started to get quiet, I could easily have seen myself freaking out and choosing something close so it didn’t seem awkward. I’m sure a lot of people in the audience panicked and just let their muscle memory take over.
i disagree but one thing i hate is how they're comparing vocaloid with those vtubers lmfao
I always want my friends to listen to the music I listen to, I absolutely love sharing music with people.
But one thing Dev didn’t mention that I think should be is when cishet people use explicitly and unirrevocably queer songs to mean something completely different when those songs are very special to the communities they’re about, like The Village and certain cavetown songs (this is home, dysphoric), and especially when the artist has said that the song is not up for interpretation and/or they don’t like it being used to mean other things (like wrable did) or if it’s being used for the opposite of what it’s intended for (like transphobes using parents by yungblud)
There’s nothing wrong with them liking or listening to the songs, or even twisting the meaning just for themselves when they listen to the song, but publicly distorting its meaning when it’s something very important to a whole group of people is messed up.
a similar thing is TERFs making tiktoks with Ptolomea by Ethel Cain in the background. SHE IS TRANS. the singer is trans, the character is trans, even if the song isn't about her transness you're still disrespecting her by using her own music to make statements against her and her community.
I also find it quite funny that they relate so heavily to a song about womanhood that's written by someone who "isn't a real woman"
@@jackiecozzie4803 i was scrolling for so long to find an ethel cain comment lol. but i totally agree. i don't want to gatekeep her from most people necessarily, but i just want to be able to make it so these transphobes and some of the deplorably mean fans don't even find her because some people just straight-up are so mean or they actively want to harm people like her.
I love when I hear music from my favorite bands/artists in videos, it makes me so happy honestly
Just got tickets to your show. So excited!
Ceilings was my favorite song from 5 seconds flat since it came out, I was super happy when it went viral 🤷🏼♂️
oh as a person who listens to less known artists all the time I hate gatekeeping. I have seen my fav artists just disbanded or silently faded away and it HURTS
i completely agree! gatekeeping music for the sake of feeling special and unique is lame. i used to think i was super cool cuz i thought i had a unique music taste (oof 😅) but as i’ve gotten older ive learned that its really fun to share the music you love with friends and even random people, because its fun to talk about and they might enjoy it too! i feel like more people discovering my favorite artists is overall a good thing because like you said thats the only way the artist is gonna be able to make the music that we love! and reaching a certain level of success can provide access to better equipment, recording spaces, producers, features, and overall “higher quality” music
i gotta say though, i really do get a little sad when a song i like goes viral on tiktok and gets absolutely ran into the fckn ground to the point everyone starts to hate it 😂 but its the same thing with radio play, some songs get way overplayed but thats not the artists fault and it doesnt mean its no longer a good song or that so many people are wrong for liking it.
ALSO ive been listening to your EP nonstop lately and just wanna say that you made a really beautiful, personal and fun work of art. thank u for sharing it with the world ❤
#gatekeepdevlemons
Okay, this is literally my best friend- she doesn't want me to get into certain things because i'd be copying her, or she wants her individuality- like I offered to go with her to a tv girl concert, (her favorite band) and she said she didn't want me to go because I didn't like the artist- and I was like "oh well I do like their music" (because when we listen to music she's always playing tv girl) and she was kinda like..."uhh...yeah but I want my individuality"
She does this with her style too, (she dresses sort of alternative and gets a lot of her clothes from hot topic) and when other people shop there, she's always kind of suspicious in a way- less suspicious more...angry? She doesn't like people to "copy her"
An artist can't just be your thing, if a friend, or family member, stranger, enemy (maybe not that one) LIKES the same music as you, you should take that as a compliment, I understand not wanting to be copied, or losing your "individuality" but come on-
Dev is actually in my top ten human beings
People gatekeeping Lana’s unreleased music is so strange to me because the reason ‘say yes to heaven’ was released was literally because it blew up on tiktok
hearing songs for the first time LIVE is an amazing experience! especially when it's from the opening band(s). i love being introduced to artists through shows and having my first impression of their sound have that rawness/intimacy of live music. yeah, it's a little awkward feeling like the one person in the crowd who isn't singing along, but you're never alone! just have fun! stop gatekeeping!
Thank you for making this video, ms. developer lemons
dev briefly mentioning king park made me look it up and listen to it. my brain chemicals have been altered. my soul is spilled all over the floor. i have a new band to listen to. my stomach is churning. thank you dev lemons.
At the end of 2018 I randomly stumbled across a live video of Poppy singing her song "X" at her Halloween show that year. I was vaguely aware of her CZcams videos, but didn't know she did live shows, much less had music. It was interesting and good enough that I checked out the rest of the album and showed my best friend. We decided on a whim to go see her live because she was coming near by a month later. She sang a bunch of stuff from her previous album and EP as well, and I hadn't heard any of it before, but I had a great time, and immediately wanted to listen to the rest of her music more.
A year later, "I Disagree" was blowing up, and we saw her live again, and there were so many new fans that had no clue about her past pop music or her videos, they just knew she was a cool new up and coming metal artist. Was it a very different vibe in the crowd? Absolutely. But we were stoked that her audience had grown and diversified, and it didn't tarnish the memory of seeing her at a tiny show the year before and discovering something new and exciting. For a bunch of people, that second show was them discovering something new and exciting after only hearing one or two songs. That's awesome. Sometimes seeing a band or artist live having only heard one or two songs is the best way to get the rest of their songs under your skin and into your head and make you a fan.
The very tiny percentage of people who are there just because it's a trendy event and they want an excuse to mosh and beat people up, or just party and ignore the stage, shouldn't ruin the experience for everyone else there, new fans or old.
dude i found ur account a couple days ago and tbh ur videos are fire & you have a good outlook on the world + a good sense of humor
keep up the good work dude
dev you are literally so cool. will never gatekeep your channel girl
I think for me it's more about like. when a lot of people discover something at the same time there can be a lot of bandwagoning and it can totally change the fan space. So like a really fun thoughtful community can disappear overnight because it got flooded with people who are coming at it from a different angle. That's inevitable and I would never actively try and stop people from discovering something I love but I will complain about it in private lol.
by bandwagoning i mean like a lot of new fans can come to group consensus about things like what the best songs are and what they mean, while in smaller spaces where people discovered something on their own and formed their own opinion first they can talk about it from their own perspectives which is a really beautiful experience. I don't mean to say that people jump on a bandwagon to listen to something or that there's anything wrong with that