Best historical armor for a fantasy adventurer? FANTASY RE-ARMED
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- čas přidán 1. 02. 2019
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Paladin's wear plate, rogues wear leather and so on, but are these armors really the best ones for the stereotypical adventurer based on how real armor actually functions?
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The best armor? Plot Armor of course!
"And as the bloodthirsty orc's axe was descending toward his head, the amulet our hero picked up on the ground in the first chapter emitted a lightray thus transforming his foe into a salmon..."
Ha, loved it.
Plot armor is a mystery too.
That's only true for MCs
Batman has got this in spades.
Shad: you can still do flips in iron plate armor
me, who can't even do flips normally: interesting
Ah, but can you do them accidentally?
@@andrewstambaugh8030 Everyone can do a flip once if you launch them hard enough.
me, who is so fat I can barely jump
@@Jack-kx5rf it's OK, u will be harder to be knocked over, thus being more resilient and more tanky
Also if u were to wear armor u would might just literally make everyone that walks into u fall over
"Can't use magic when touching iron"
*iron is in your blood*
"Welp, I guess I'll just give up being a wizard."
The funny thing about this is that there are a few spells that require iron in some fashion as a component
this explains why we don't have wizards in reality.
ask for a magician to transform you into a humanoid crustacean. their blood is copper(Hemocyanins) based so no iron(Hemoglobin). but even then I think they have some iron on their blood just like we do have some copper on ours.
@@lucasbiermann257 So, you're saying that that the tritons gifted the other races with magic?
That's why Orc should never be able to do magic, their muscles are iron made
"You don't typically roleplay travelling a lot"
Me:* Cries in level 20 Ranger that never got to use their survival skill *
That's also where setting some normal expectations is helpful. It gives the GM more opportunity to diversify and reasonably undo extreme max/min unbalances and it keeps players from getting upset when their character wasn't always perfectly prepared for every situation.
Unless you say specifically otherwise, or reasonably perceiving imminent danger:
*your characters take their helmets off when enjoying drinks at a bar and other similar activities
*take their armor off as soon as they can after a long day of work or travel (eg to relax at camp)
*don't sleep in their armor, unless it would help with the environmental comfort (eg cloth armor in winter is insulation)
*don't do manual labor in armor
except extreme weather or other factors:
*travels wearing their armor (most convenient way to carry) - but gets worn out faster the heavier the armor. (presents choice of some better way to carry it such as a handcart or pack animal or servants/slaves).
Players may choose to declare to violate those base expectations. Doing so will have consequences varying from:
*nothing
*getting odd looks and reactions from people (possibly an offense)
*holding up the party due to not being able to keep up
*extreme wear/exhaustion or heatstroke (dizziness, confusion, loss of perception, reaction, stamina... easy to quantify as negative modifiers)
So, imagine some goblins are stalking the party. When do they attack it? When the party is most vulnerable, so at night when the goblins can see and the humans can't, when they are tired, relaxing, out of their armor, distracted looking into the fire or in conversation or song, etc....
*And that's when the party is quickly overwhelmed and must flee into the darkness without most of their supplies, gear, & armor and a ranger's ability to help them escape and then continue to keep them alive becomes vital to the party.
@@andrewstambaugh8030 This was beautiful. Totally stealing all of this for future games.
That sucks! But that's so awesome being a 20th level ranger
It really isn't unless your DM adds the mundane parts of the game that only rangers are good at
@@thewitchcoven totally agree with you! They should've put those aspects in their game to show off your rangers abilities.
I actually ran a campaign that got up to level 18 and the drow rangers abilities saves the group so much hassle.
The ranger is the default survivalist and takes the lead in traveling and maybe even general exploration.
They can be the difference from an easy and straightforward journey or a getting lost and stuck in the wilderness being attacked by random encounters.
As the DM all you gotta do is use implement that part of the game and call for some survival checks.
ButButBut, a sneaky rogue ALWAYS wears leather. It's made of Hide!
get out
Stay forever
Hide armour is a different class, it falls under the medium armour.
I roll sense motive against lauritz to see if they missed the pun
(Rolls eyes) really Dad?
Authors and film makers see brigadine or coat of plates
“Oh look, leather armour!”
STUDDED LEATHER!
The equivalent of seeing a bulletproof vest with plate inserts and saying, “Look, cloth armour!”
@@WellBattle6 well to be fair coat of plates look like leather armour while plate carriers obviously have something in them
China plate mail?
I was going to correct you but the first comment for to it earlier
"...and they need to wear less clothing for the magic to leave their body..."
Mid battle a line of naked men step forward and the enemy routs in the face of the anticipated magical onslaught.
Pfffhahahahahahahahahahaha
why am i thinking of dr manhattan
My idea would be that mages are'nt wearing armour because doing spells takes energy, so wearing armour takes energy. But They would'nt be naked in a cold environment, but in a warmer environment like Spain why not?
the picts have their revenge
I've seen braveheart
TFW you realize Dragon Age: Origins actually does a good job depicting armour by making it tire you faster rather than reducing any mobility.
DA:O did a good job at a ton of things.
Still miss that game. They got so much right in so many different aspects
Origins giving you a blood magic questline sent it over the top for me.
Only truly evil character I think I've ever had.
Imagine a wizard in thin gambeson... and every layer of the linen is stitched with protective shields and magic-augmentation
No DM would allow that, at least no sane one.
Yeah, already have. I even made the rule that each different enchantment had to be enspelled in a different language, and that in layered armor you had to stagger the enchanments so they would not stack same on same between two layers touching (the letters of the one specific spell touching each other). I do this because I am more focused into the Artificer (laymen tend to call them Enchanters) subclass in specificity.
@@Jeremiah90526 that is hella broken
@@phyrofox1641 Yes, but you have to consider a few things that goes into it. How many written languages can actually take spells? How many could a PC likely know, particularly know well enough to not make transcription errors in the spells themselves? Consider that between the layers, the same spell cannot touch on two layers, so the spells have to be staggered or the spell either completely breaks or is only partially effective (what is the likelihood that during construction the person rolls low on perception and fouls this up one or more times?). Also, how many spell slots per day does the Artificer have, because every layer of the gambeson needs to be fully enspelled with whatever enchantments you want for the whole armor, and each layer will take the full spell slot of each enchantment put in. Also, you can't just put all high level or just all low level enchantments, each successive enchantment would have to be at least two levels higher than the last (this part to stop the Artificer class from just making a bunch of low level multi-enchanted armor). All in all, it will take several game days to multiple game weeks to make, and if it is being purchased, again, that is a lot of time the Artificer is putting in to this armor, so we are talking thousands of gold being put into the purchase of this armor. I do try and balance shit when I do possible game breaking stuff.
@@phyrofox1641 On the other hand, as long as it does not decrease anyone's enjoyment of that particular game, it does not need to be balanced. Many features in D&D are designed to be broken.
11:40 "Gambeson would be stealthier than leather"
Wrong, because leather is meade out of *hide*
Leather rubs a squeaks. A Gambie doesn't. Plus fake ass shit.
The Gaming Scotsman I think you missed the joke, friend
@@gamingscotsmanOG woooooooshhhhh
This joke literally made me laugh out loud:)
shame someone else stole that joke and got 3 times the likes which to be fair that could have been coincidencial but still
About in-story reasons for magic-users to not wear heavy armor, I've always liked the Runescape explanation: Metal armor conducts magic. While this makes mages do more damage to warriors for game balance, you could also extrapolate that wearing such armor while casting magic makes it very easy to harm yourself, especially with electricity spells.
Wear non conductive clothing yo your hands. Problem solved. I always wear medium level armour if I play mage.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 put a gambeson above your plating, easy
@@slayeroffurries1115 just wear a brigandine lmao
Yeah throw a fireball/flamethrower type attack at a dude's breastplate and you effectively make his breastplate turn into an oven.
I liked runescape's system/explanation for that too.
For those who are saying just put a piece of cloth underneath, consider this: magic is supposed to be a potent energy. While you direct it with your hands, that doesn't mean it isn't flowing all around you to do that.
Thing IRL to consider:
*Capacitors are 2 separated plates with electrical energy (separated charge). They don't touch, but they have a drastic effect.
*A spark plug has a gap, initially acting like a capacitor until the potential of the gap is overcome. Then it discharges and destructively arcs the gap.
*If a capacitor overcomes it's gap/gets shorted for any reason, it usually goes pop or boom depending on the size (ever seen a power pole blow? the loud boom was probably the capacitor)
So all these suggestions of just adding cloth between metal armor might be making the magic problem worse (capacitor that shorts to your blood!)
Magic does things beyond our normal rules, so it could be exponentially worse, without considering that maybe the world itself is shifting and the mages movements need to align to that to do things safely and a bunch of magically conductive metal interfering makes that dangerous.
A sword may be small enough to be worth the minor increased risk, no discernable issue.
But a breastplate is a lot of metal surface very near the body. Would you wear one if there was a reasonable expectation that at some randomly misaligned time it would reflect/reverb 10% of your fireball back into stomach?
As far as the Barbarians not having much armor?
The Celts had whole classes of warriors who charged screaming into battle buck ass naked and painted to the gills. And likely hopped up on psychoactive drugs. Which is probably where much of the infuence behind the classic "fantasy" barbarian came from.
Didn’t he mention those in his video about barbarians?
yup and they got slaughtered by Romans on the reg, kind of proving that charging naked with no formation isn't optimal.
@@QeepingItReal not optimal but epic
@@Trapsarentgay133 agreed
Charging into battle naked as the day you were born was fairly normal for the Celts, as far as I've read. Probably a psychological thing. Screaming was also common for all warriors. Gotta hype yourself up and demoralize the opponents. The psychoactives sounds more like the Norse berserkers, though the Celts likely had something similar. (Look at Cuchulain.)
Shad: *says first sentence*
Me: He's gonna say cloth gambeson.
5:00 Shad: Gambeson
Me: *unsurprised pikachu face*
I actually think a nice flaxen Jack would be better.
I saw the thumbnail and was like: I bet he is going to say gambeson
@Ian M the better question is how many times we can say gambeson in this comment thread.
@@jkosch Mithril is lame, no drawbacks at all.
There IS a drawback: prohibitive cost and availability. Plus, that silvery sheen is really damn distinctive. You can bet your 10 foot pole that someone will try to murder you for it sooner or later.
@@Interfector0 being rare isn't really a drawback, is it? Not once you have it. Also, like frodo, just wear it under your shirt.
You look unarmed, while having the best protection ever.
It's like MMORPG Weapons/Armor.
In real life, everything has it's drawbacks. A Sword is not really better than a spear, just because it's more expensive. You have to consider the situation you're in, what you might encounter, to pick the right weapon/armor.
Whereas Mithril is something everyone could use in any situation.
Well, the rarity generally means that a good GM will put you through the wringer before they let you have it. And the "wear it under your shit" trick doesn't works nearly as well if your group sticks to more realistic rules - that is to say you have to wear padding (such as gambeson) under the mail.
"Can't use iron.."
Just use bronze or something like that.
Still very conductive.
@@ckir1963 Well DUH, they're metal
@@VixXstazosJOB duh? Ok.
Stone scale armour! Sure it'll weigh a metric ton but good frakking luck trying to cut through it
@@firestorm165 You should look up bone lamellar. Genuine historical non-metallic armor. Not as durable as metal, but would you rather take that sword blade to the ribs?
One thing I like about D&D 5e is that spellcasters can wear any armor they want, they just need to be proficient in it. So it’s not impossible to find even the squishy wizard in full plate if they played their cards right
Hexblade warlocks!!!
Modern day NATO soldiers pack around 80lbs/36Kg in their travelling kit. They are expected to make between 15 to 20 km per day. At the end of the march they are expected to drop their packs and fight on their basic combat load, which is about 45lbs/20Kg. That's about the same to what a Roman Soldier fought on, and a bit over a Renaissance or Middle Ages footman's fighting kit.
Here's my insight as a former troop leader... You want your troops to march overloaded and to spend as much time as possible _in_ their fighting kit. You want them eating in full gear and going to the loo with their weapons and armor. If they can get in and out of a tiny portable loo without getting tangled on their ballistic plate or their weapon's carrying strap, you know they'll not fumble when they are moving about in the bush. If they can march the whole day with 80 pounds on top, they'll eat the battlefield when they go down to their basic load. It is about conditioning, and familiarity.
Adventurers and mercenaries, even those who are not actively involved in a campaign, should be as keen as a professional soldier to reach the stage where they don't even notice the weight of their equipment. Not to mention that people who survive in the field are aware that trouble has a way of finding you at the most inconvenient of times. Specially when you are not looking for it. :D
This is a really interesting insight, and really fits the sort of thinking that a couple of my characters would have.
I was actually about to bring this up. I was in the US Marines and know that I would much rather just wear my gear and suffer through it till I don't even know it's there. I remember after boot camp packing a 50lbs/22KG pack for a hike and scratching my head wondering if I'd forgotten something because of how light it was. Now I know it was conditioning and it can very well make or break a force.
There's troops nowadays that carry more than twice the weight of a full plate harness between their flak, their pack, ammo, weapons. If anything I envy those men from the Middle Ages. So I definitely agree with you. Never know when trouble is gonna find you, and usually it's gonna try and take a chunk out of you!
Very interesting to get insight like that from someone deeply involved with the matter. Thanks!
True, when I was in military training, I found that being out in the field was easier and I actually grew weaker after two weeks of combat ops. When we returned to our normal training routine, it was suddenly tougher even though it was the same as before.
I still a difference between modern soldiers marching into a campaign and medieval setting adventurers traveling. While soldiers are expected to fight numbers of battles even in hard stress, they still expect to have chances of regrouping and resting in the process with the protection of other friendly units. On the other hand, fantasy adventurers travel around for days, weeks, and even months, depending on their destination and also in very small groups if not alone. The level of stress and fatigue are also incomparable because they are not formed in groups where they can more reliably lay backs to and are more constantly exposed to things like bandits and wild animals. I would say the difference is that modern soldiers are expecting a high stress situation in a shorter amount of time(I know wars go on for ever, but I'm talking in relative sense) while fantasy adventurers are exposed to lower levels of stress for possibly much much more expended periods of time.
That angelic choir when you said gambeson was brilliant.
Rory Donaldson
I’m just trying to place which exact part of the classic Halos that was snipped from.
@@AgentTasmania - my 3 year old daughter found HALO on my X-Box today and was playing it when that part came up.
@@AgentTasmania It's Ghosts of Reach from Halo 2, plays during the underwater gondola sequences on Installation 05
At 7:50 there is what seems to be Halo 3 concept art🤔
I love how halo seems to be appearing more and more on Shads channel, huge Halo fan boy right here.
5:00
You included the Halo theme in your video organically? Instant like.
Also his "cold place" is somewhere on the ring. I don't know how well a gambeson would hold up to covenant weapons.
69th like
Truly, the best armor is MILJNOR spartan armor
Andrew the Awesome32
*Mjolnir
As it is I C O N I C
@@adamlee3484 Considering most of them is plasma-based
It wouldn't be pretty
It'd burn the gambeson and cook the wearer without even needing too much effort, you're probably safer wearing something that isn't warm and made of flammable stuff
Something heat resistant and not very heat conductive would be great i'd imagine, so not exactly metal either
"Is dere milk in dis" is absolutely me. That is what I would be doing when sacking a city -- checking for milk.
As a person allergic to milk, this is me whenever I see food I want to eat.
Before I watch: Gambeson;
Thick enough to take blows.
Relatively easy to repair/replace.
Cheap.
Can be layered with other gear like plate, or chainmail.
Warm for cold/low temperature climates.
i'd go for gambeson with a jack of plates (basically leather armor with metal plates or chainmail built in between the layers) or brigantine armor. its light weight for alot of traveling and pretty tough. If I could rely on access to horses or carts for travel and didnt have to march everywhere I'd go for your average medieval kit of chainmail, gambeson, light helmet, shield (preferably a heater shield) and a good broad sword and a secondary weapon of a mace.
@@arthas640
if i had to look for armour i would like to have while adventuring i wouldn't look at the middle ages at all.
i would look at ancient roman armour for adventuring, since roman legionaries had to not only fight, but also engaged in intense physical labour while wearing armour such as building roads, bridges and fortifications. they also did a LOT of marching and all that in the hot weather of the italian peninsula, so it should be no tall order to perform the standard tasks an adventurer deals with while wearing lorica hamata or scuamata, segmentata might be a bit on the heavy side though.
@@windhelmguard5295 Roma invicta
I would personally go with an armoured jacket, much like brigandine, but much easier to take on and off. And you can layer it. so like a quilted gambeson underlayer, the metal plates, and then a leather outer shell for style(gotta look stylin) with the gambeson going to the knees, and the leather stoping a little above that. That is probably one of the most common options for adventures in my opinion(probably not that exact style, but something similar) as it provides decent protection, but very easy to take off
@@arthas640 dude warbow should be any adventures primary weapon...
Funny story: I was at a larp about two years ago with my brothers. One them wore a chainmail most of the day. It didn't tire him out a lot, but that's not even the point of the story. We were talking to an enemy, and while we need, said brother chose to sneak up behind the guy. It was at daylight, so my broter didn't even have the advantage of darkness on his side. Still, he managed to sneak up behind the enemy fellah, took out his weapon, and grappled the poor guy.
None of us saw it coming before we could see my brother right behind the guy. None of us heard him. Nobody saw it coming before he'd locked the guy. From that day on my brtoher got a new name, one that still sticks to him: The Chainmail Ninja. It was pretty hilarious.
So yeah, I think chainmails can be noisy, but also, it actually is possible to sneak behind people in it, as long as you're really careful. And if the enemy is talking to someone else, that does help. But it was still funny as hell that my brother managed to do it. :P
That's why the help action is useful, it gives advantage which cancels the disadvantage on stealth that mail has.
I used to LARP also, and after a while, I stared wearing a 1-1/2 inch sleigh bell on my belt to make me work harder at sneaking. Later we gave the bell to the healer who kept getting lost, following "interesting" paths away from us, and the bell helped us find the healer when she started running from the "interesting" danger.
I am a Ranger who's better at melee combat than ranged combat.
i guess most people would be surprised how little noise mail makes...
they believe its like a suit made of little bells, but its nothing like that.
i am wearing a butted mail bracelet made from 7 rows of 8mm diameter rings and when i shake my wrist the noise my clothes make by rubbing against each other is at least as loud as the one from the bracelet
the rings of mail are always in contact with at least 2 other rings and more often than not the mails own weight pulls the weave taught so that all rings are in contact with their neighboring ones thus reducing their capability to resonate significantly.
plate (or scale for that matter) on the other hand has way larger pieces of metal with less contact points whose bodies can resonate freely when hit by another piece of metal.
@@TheScarvig Oh the plate thing, heck yeah it could be loud. I made field plate for LARPing from car hoods and refrigerator bodies. That stuff (once I learned about rolled edges!!!) was hot and loud. To quiet it down I glued fabric to the backs of the shoulder pieces, knee and elbow cups, tasses, cuisses, etc. That helps a lot for noise, not much more weight. In a game setting, much the same could be done.
In settings where it's specifically iron that messes with spellcasting, I've always wondered why spellcasters wouldn't consider using bronze armor. It may not be as good as steel, but its still better than cloth. Or if the restriction is all metals, what about something like linothorax?
And when it comes to shields, if the restriction is just touching the metal, they could consider something like a pavise, where, when it came time to actually cast their magic, they can set the shield down in front of them so they aren't touching the metal anymore.
Bronze is a crap material when everyone is using steel, a hardened steel sword will cut through it like paper with enough force. Plus, if the issue is conductivity, bronze would actually be even more problematic. It comes down to the metallurgy - bronze is a soft metal with high thermal and electrical conductivity, as it's an alloy of copper. You'd honestly be better off wearing a gambeson.
As for shields, another option is to have a wooden handle on the shield, or wear a glove.
@@VestedUTuber But for all those failings, would bronze be actually worse than the cloth of a spellcaster's robe? The conductivity thing could be an explanatory mechanism, but silver has an even higher conductivity and there are plenty of settings where silver (and copper) works great for various magic enhancing items a caster would wear, usually in the form of jewelry.
Gambeson is great of course. It's very hard to come up with with a self-consistent reason that would prevent a spellcaster from wearing gambeson unless it's just not available in the setting.
If you are wearing any armour - you have to have gambeson by default.
The fact you're missing is for game balance, casters e.g. wizards are physically weak but highly intelligent guys. A top university student with severe back pains like me, fits well. I can't carry around more than 5 kilos, and lifting over 10 kilos is in impossible task for me. Can't lift a bucket of water, seriously.
There's no way I could wear any armour apart a gambeson. Or lift a steel pavise. Or pretty much anything apart what I need for spellcasting.
The other reason is that you have to maintain concentration to cast spells, and you can't do it in a suit of armour you are not proficient with.
I love the idea of using the eastern-style gambeson, the khalat, which is long and worn with no metal armour, as the wizard's clothing.
@@VestedUTuber I mean, I guess you COULD assume that conductivity of magic functions identically to conductivity of electricity..
You wouldn't have to, though.
Or just have a wooden / padded handle on the shield. Or wear leather gloves.
If someone was actually travelling around to face goblins, zombies, wyverns, etc. they would be carrying the heaviest armors they could, but only donning it when they reach the cave or area where the creatures are likely to be. This would mean... (a) fighter-types would wear a light armor when travelling, (b) everyone would typically have a pack animal for their heavy armor and equipment, (c) if the travel area itself was dangerous you'd use scouts (rogues, familiars, etc.) to buy you that 3-4 minutes to don heavy armor, and (d) if you couldn't scout or random encounter where common, fighter-types would be mounted when possible to wear heavy armors while travelling.
In many games you can simulate this fairly accurately by using encumbrance rules and tracking weights, days passed, and food. Most parties quickly get pack animals and/or mounts.
But then you have to prevent your mounts from being carried away by harpies! 🙈
BW022 If magic is common use then why not just have armour able to be conjured/summoned? It's often done with swords and bows so I don't see why more properties don't explain inventory system that way.
@@bigdream_dreambig give the wizard or the party a spell or an artifact to protect mounts from most threats, when the party is adventuring.
That picture of the fantasy adventurer screams to me, "I killed a guy with some nice plate armor, but not all of the pieces fit me."
I think Shad probably has a line in his will requesting that he be buried in a gambeson.
Nah man he’ll be entombed in a cave in full kit with magical bindings to resurrect him any time foolish adventuress invade his sepulcher
@@charlottewalnut3118 and bothers everybody in a 100 mile radius of his tomb when they call Brigadier Studded Leathet.
@@charlottewalnut3118 He would become Shad Ooal Gown then.
#1: new drinking game.. everytime Shad says gambeson, take a shot.
#2: 1 min later, alcohol poisoning.
Goodbye, my two brave friends.
f
f
If armor, gambeson. If castles, meticulations
Profit
Shad... everyone knows the short answer here; "Historically Accurate Plot Armor"
11:00 It is within the rules of most tabletop RPGs, though everyone always ignored the encumbrance rule, so now it's optional, at least in D&D SDR based games. Every piece of equipment has a set weight, and the more weight you carry, the easier you get tired, the slower you run, the shorter you jump, etc.
I just used that magic that created a disc that could carry 50kg/level to take every thing for us.
The good ol' Tenser.
@@thomasfplm Bag of Holding for the win!
@@AnyMe223, my GM used to roll for if we would find the magic items we wanted, except if we were at a very big city, and even then the item should be a common one.
enforcing encumbrance rules is a mark of a good DM imo
17:05
This made me imagine an Archmage, cowering behind his shield, desperately flipping pages on his spellbook as his dueling opponent does the same thing twenty feet away. Then they both cast magic missile and automatically hit anyway.
Or one of them *cast* Shield, which automatically blocks Magic Missile.
Heh, a pavice style shield would be perfect for him.
Honestly I like magical shields, forcefields and Ward-type spells (Skyrim) more with mages than physical shields aesthetically and as a gut-feeling, but an argument could easily be made regarding spell slots, mana, fatigue or whatever is powering their spells being better spent for offence, as in most worlds they are of a limited supply. And despite Wards being a thing, the "Shield Mage" is actually such a common thing with Skyrim players that a legion of them basically shows up to pester mod creators with new perk mods about catering to them.
@@Acesahn This is exactly what I was thinking. A Pavise would grant the mage full use of both hands for arcane gestures... if that's important.
I believe arrows is something you'd like to additionally defend from as a mage - you can't just dispel them...
haven't watched yet but going to guess: Gambeson lol
Edit: yep.
Tadaa! :D one thing of note Shad mentions is that plate armor would be worn on top of mail on top of thin gambeson (this would be your Padded Armor in D&D most likely).
Another thing to note may be that realistic D&D adventures end at level 5. After that your characters become heroic superhumans moving faster than heavy armor permits.
Same.
but the real serious question: are adventurers apple fanboys, or do they use android?
@@Blox117 I would guess , apple because android doesn't exist during medieval period. Additional point for snack.
@@lazfirn hmm so were medieval people also not a fan of windows?
Question:
In fantasy it is quite common for armours to be asymmetrical. Either one shoulderpad is bigger than the other, or a character simply wears one shoulderpad with a broad strap across the chest, and sometimes only one gauntlet instead of two. Mostly common in non-human races, such as Orcs.
What are your thoughts on this? Does it sacrifice protection for mobility, as well as being for the sake of aesthetics?
Late reply but asymmetrical armour designs are called Milanese as opposed to Gothic. It makes sense to protect one side more than the other in certain cases, if you don’t have enough resources to make a full suit then you might choose to focus on the side of your body that’s opposite your opponent’s weapon hand (their right, your left)
As a TTRPGer I really appreciate these videos. Your channel content covers an interesting variety of different topics, which are all well researched, well presented and delivered with that characteristic, "Shadiversal" sense of humour. Keep up the good work!
:o Shad talked about us! THIS IS SO COOL! Just to clarify, the 10% code is on top of any other offer we're currently running!
Oo you have some interesting looking videos, subscribed
@@mrshmrsh5073 Thanks! We're just working on a worldbuilding guide to building cultures and societies :D Should be out in a few days!
Oh jeez, now I even have an actual reason to just keep on worldbuilding instead of actually writing stories xD
This looks too cool to not check out
wow what a cool idea! im subscribing and using it to help me write. Thanks!
whats the best kind of armor for a thief?
shad: gambeson.
ranger?
shad: gambeson.
adventurer?
shad: gambeson.
XD shad and his gambeson!!!
however, it is true that they are incredible!
Shad like this comment it's funny
@@timboebert6458 What about Dragonbone armor? Feels like you'd prefer it you're full of them afterall
Best armour for Elves?
Shad: Gambeson
Best for Dwarves?
Shad: smaller gambeson
Best to wear if you don't want std's?
Shad: gambeson
unless you get shot at by arrows, or anything with pointy edges. Nevermind cloth armour being really a lot harder to impregnate against humidity or able to burn. But yeah if I pick my examples and talk fast enough I can prove anything^^
I once joked with a friend about making an RPG character that's just a gambeson tank.
Did shad ever make that video re-making armour class for RPG's? I would watch the HECK outta that!
16:23 I agree with that and think that it would be kinda cool if the cloth armour would help the user contain the magic and direct the flow of it out through the hands instead of dispersing while travelling through the arms.
Ah! World Anvil-hype! My world's map was even in the video :D. So much hype and excitement!
Linen is a LOT tougher than people realise. People are more used to cotton, wool or polyester these days. In Ireland many still use linen drying up cloths (or tea towels as many call them), and they're tough as nuts.
Maybe people should know better about textile armor. If we try to compare with modern stuff, maybe thick winter clothing. Easily understandable that cutting through would be difficult and that it will be good against blunt force. Maybe some other linen armor could be relevant to the topic like the Linothorax cuirass.
I've got a lot of linen rags that are tough as fucking nails.
And for what I saw, gambeson tend to get toughter when a bit old. Maybe the wet/dry repeated cycles make them stiffer, or maybe they shrink a bit around the body.
My nuts aren't that tough
Flax is STUPIDLY TOUGH as a fiber-source ... you pretty much have to saw the sheite down or pull it out by the roots, and the latter method is preferred. Once processed ... well, they had to get the idea for Kevlar from somewhere.
Having seen shad's later videos, I have to wonder what his thoughts on brigandine for an adventurer would be...
When you google brigandine you see a photo of shad, so I’m guessing he doesn’t hate it
Why do I have the sick feeling that Shad's significant other will be wearing a Gambeson and holding a kite shield at Valentine's Day....
Sees the video pop up, reads the title. "Oh, he's going with Gambeson. Guarantee it."
Sees the sponsor, gets curious, visits... jaw drops to the floor and immediately signs up
Knee-armor! So the adventurer won't take an arrow to the knee.
Or Hurt his Knee while Running for his life Or Doing acrobatics or Sneaking around. Some monsters, It's just best to not Mess with.
Well the black archers would want to know your location
Lol their poor knees
Someone told me that was actually a metaphor for getting married
@Tuosan a debunked myth for a video game? Lol now I am intrigued
I guess I hoped it had some truth to it because it made it more realistic than every guard ever being an adventurer and getting shot in the knee, haha
@@eldrenofthemist2492 or going up againat PweDiePie...
One thing to note: thick layers of cloth when you're moving long distances with a heavy pack get hot very quickly. Even if you're moving under cover of darkness and it's only about 50 F (10 C), by the time you've gone around 5 miles you'll be sweating. If you get cold, that's what cloaks are for!
If you consider that medieval armour could be reproduced with lighter metals like mithril, mail would be better than gambeson in my opinion. Modern-designed mail (which fully covers the arms and body) made from very fine steel mesh weighs around 7 lbs (3.2 kg). Assuming we use the D&D version of mithril/mithral, that would weigh only 3.5 lbs (1.6 kg), and probably grant you more protection overall.
I have worne both mail and plate in larp situations (with a gamberson ofcourse). for women at least I found that breastplates were good for marching because it rests on the hips (say if your moving to attack) but not great for sitting around in waiting for an attack. Mail was great for sitting around in for hours waiting to be attacked but pretty heavy to march in. This is ofcourse just my personal opinion and LARP is not the same as real fighting XD. (In LARP where I´m from most people just wear gambersons aswell with shoulder protection and bracers but no chest plate. DOn´t know if that´s historical at all but thought it was interesting).
Well, Gambeson makes sense if your characters are primarily or almost exclusively European-esque. But from what I've managed to work out, the equivalent to the Gambeson in Asiatic nations is the Chinese Paper Armor. Now, it might not sound all that impressive, but paper back then was more of a cloth than what we think of paper being in our modern era. And Paper Armor was actually pretty impressive, being lighter than other kinds of armor in addition to much quieter. In fact, I would love to see the Gambeson go up against Paper Armor in a competition to see just how much they stack up against each other.
There's the silk, too.
I can not say if all the legends of the wet silk being almost indestructible is real, but if it can really protect from arrows and cuts as it is said it can be used as a really thin armor.
alberto nishiyama the problem is the silk armor would be bloody expensive.
Paper armor existed in very different form. Ming Chinese armor had a huge numbers of armor depending on the terrain and job you had to do, as well as ethnic minorities specific armor like the incredible leather armor of the Yi people, used since the Tang empire until 1980~
Generally speaking, the brigandine was the armor of choice for troop mobilized far from their home. Generally waist length for Infantry and leg length for cavalry, it was lighter than European versions and could be folded and was the most used armor of the mid to late Ming Dynasty and after. Lamellar is also a good armor for Nomad as it can be easily repaired by its owner.
Also yes, I don't like how eurocentrist are often those discussions
@Communist Red Demon Horde Yes they did, but they didn't compare it to European armor, just its metal Chinese contemporary. Also, they made it themselves and didn't quite get the whole thing right. Yes, the armor was made by folding the sheets into scales and sewing them together, but the set Myth Busters made wasn't water resistant. I recently found an episode of Ancient Discoveries, an old History Channel series, from a few years prior to the Myth Busters episode that said that the lacquer or shellac was was put on as a coating over the folded and sewn scales to make the scales water resistant or even potentially waterproof.
I disagree with you on spellcasters using kite shields. If we view what the effects of a mage is; they are usually ranged damage dealers that have to have both hands free, a shield that is held in the hand may actually take them out of the fight.
So essentially, mages have the same requirements for protection as archers and crossbowmen; needing a shield that doesn't need to be held. So a Pavise shield that has either a stand or is stabbed into the ground is perfect for them.
Alternative: Something strapped to the forearm that can be grasped with a hand in a pinch, but otherwise leaves hand free. A pavisse would be badass though haha.
It all depends on how magic is applied in that fantasy setting.
so having a 'shield brother'. just like an archer hiding behind a guy wearing lots of armor and having a wall shield. the mage pops his head out now and again, flings a spell, then hides behind his buddy and starts his spellcasting time/cooldown once again. because Gandalf standing there wide open sonorously chanting in a cool dramatic baritone at the top of his lungs waving a staff or wand about is A BIG HUGE FREAKING SHOOT ME! SHOOT ME FULL OF ARROWS! target. :>
For balance purposes it makes sense that wizards need to carry other items (e.g. spell components, spell books, scrolls) and must have full use of both their hands and arms to cast spells, preventing them from using a shield while doing so.
However, they should be allowed to wield a spell focus which is also a simple melee weapon (such as a quarterstaff or spear) and also wear less restrictive types of armor (such as padded or mail) which don't interfere with their dexterity and hence their ability to cast spells.
Unfortunately, any somatic spellcasting restrictions can be entirely circumvented by obtaining the "War Caster" feat which should therefore be limited somewhat in scope, so that it only applies to certain magicks and/or still requires at least one free hand to make the necessary gestures.
i feel a roman scutum would be good for a mage, it can be easily moved and, due to its curvature, it just stands upright without it needing extra support.
If iron limits a sorcerer’s ability to cast spells then they could always wear bronze.
The reason behind iron not being able to conduct magic is because of the English. Since the English were God-fearing (and in most cases, superstitious), they said that the rust on iron looks like the Blood of Christ, and this goes for steel as well. Copper and Bronze tarnish a lime green color almost, which lime green is usually associated with witchcraft and other sins like jealousy and greed. So, the English thought the copper and bronze were used by witches and warlocks while iron and, most likely steel, is blessed by the Almighty.
Obviously, this is just Middle Ages English superstition, but it proves that even Christians like myself are not safe from superstition.
@@voltekthecyborg7898 oh dang,time to make bronze armor and piss off the church
Wisards are intelligent and weak. They can't carry armour.
@@annasolovyeva1013 my wizard has 16 strength
Worldbuilding wise, this would also make for great aesthethics and characterization. Would also make you a priority target in the battlefield.
This is the first time I was soo interested in the sponsor/ad that i actually complete listened what it was about
The gambeson is what I've used as the main armour for all my adventurers throughout my
novel-in-progress. I've also started implementing the idea of having your specialised back sheath be a distinguishing feature of an adventurer as opposed to a soldier. Thank you for this channel; it's truly brilliant.
You could also use a mixture of plate and gamberson meant for long days at a dungeon. With plate being in the arms and some in the chest. This would lower most of the heat and with just a but of added weight it would improve the defense of the armor.
@@corneredfox mail and scale is heavier then plate.
I'm picking Gambeson. Utilitarian, lightweight, cheap AND versatile. Also provides decent protection, be it from weapons or the elements.
But what kind of summer? are we talking African summer, or Northern-Norwegian summer?
How about tropical countries? Where THE SUN SCORCH YOU LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW?! (Yeah I know it's exagerrating but still 😭)
@abesimpson616 the problem is a chain shirt is not that good without padding. The sword may not cut you, but it will still break your bones. Think about being hit with an iron bar. But yes the kind of larp rule set where torso is like 5 points and every other zone is like 2, the best points to weight ratio will be gauntlets, helmets and bracers. A shield is always great.
@@FreeOfFantasy And yet people around the world, including Europe, wore mail with no more padding than a shirt.
@@Altonahk Are you sure about it? Where are your sources for that? We know from the tapestries the soldiers had gambesons and the Romans also had special under armour from what they have written down, even if we are not sure how thick that was. A thousand years is more then enough for organic stuff to be rotten away.
I thought the most comfortable armour on screen was John Snow's armour at the Battle of the Bastards. That armour looked amazing and rather comfortable. I would happily choose that over Plate armour.
Thank you for making such awesome videos. I'm in the process of writing a book, and I am also drawing the characters. I want many things to be grounded and realistic, and your videos have been invaluable.
The whole travel thing is exactly why I hate the wizard/mage in robes trope. Loose fitting and flowing robes is the *LAST* thing you want to wear while traipsing through the wilderness. Your robe is going to get snagged on every low hanging branch, twig, and bush you walk past and god help you if your forced to push through some brambles.
True although I suppose it depends on what sort of environment there is. The Arabs wore robes not unlike wizard robes in the dessert and it apparently worked for them.
True. But its also about feelings. I would not like to play game where everyone is clad in the full plate in the dungeon. This just does feel monotone and uninteresting...
@@samuelmillerick4550
In a desert sure, but most fantasy settings are loosely based on medieval Europe.
@@milanpospisil8024
You can have a happy medium with spell casters wearing gear that is far more practical for the life of an adventurer without turning them into tank mages.
@@conduit64 Yes, I used magic for that. Using magic you are able to enchant robes and armor to be quite good so you do not need to use plate (for the cost of plate). I also used hide from monsters as source for very strong heavy armors for barbarians or rangers. Not as protective as full plate but with less restrictions (again for the cost of the plate).
“Shads coming for your dice” 😂
Me “noooo, I just got them!”
Me: "But I'm on my way to becoming like *harp music* Laura Bailey and have an entire duffle bag filled with dice!"
@@DarthNoox *waves wand* May the curse of Wil Wheaton rest upon half of your dice. Good luck figuring out which ones!! MUAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!
@@njnjco NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
@@DarthNoox I can hear the glorious sound of frantic dice rolling from all the way across the internet!!
It's okay, gives you an excuse for moar dice.
Another series that handles Fae not handling the touch of Iron is the Dresden Files. They even mention how different minerals are better conduits for handling energy and such. Good series.
Something else worth considering - if you spend you life focused on getting into trouble and fights, wear and tear is likely to build up quickly. Maintenance and repairs are probably one of the most important details relating to the usefulness of an adventurer's choice of kit. Maille and plate when damaged, take skill and materials to repair or replace, let alone maintain. Gambesons just need darning needles and thread. That's my winning reason personally
Guy, your videos help writers just so much. Thanks for all your work, comrade. And don't forget the dragons.
Yes we mustn't forget the dragons but also we must use the machicolations!
Helps? More like point the obvious. I mean... if you're a good writer then you'll invent a far better material then Gambesson.
@@danielantony1882 : you mean the obvious like : the million mages in fantasy who hide behind a shield?^^
or the warriors in heavy armour who are backflipping over the battlefield?
or the rouges who would never dream of using something useless as leather? ;)
yeah fantasy gets thoose things more than right already...... ;)
@@shadowhands3321 And a Support Mage never does the job of the Vanguard anyway, so fuck off.
Lelouch Vi Britannia: I command you to tell me the truth.
17:31 NO! This one I cannot let you pass with! The best shield for a caster is the PAVISE, as you would just set it up, and boom: Free hands to do gestures or use arcane tools, while still being kinda protected from arrows.
...And yes, that is the only major concern for mages. They are behind lines, casting while the others keep the enemy busy, and are usually too close to enemy archers for them to shoot in an arc. The only problem is flanking, which can be solved by more shields (Just imagine a wizard with 3-5 familiars carrying massive pavises trotting about, ready to deploy a barrier when their master is in peril).
I came to the comments to say this exact thing. Just to nitpick though, and to help googlers, it's pavise with an i.
@@somerando1073 Fixed le typos.
Why shields on mages just cast a magic shield (unless its only effective against other magic)
@@lolmanboss If they can. If they can't, then normal shields it is. Also, why waste mana, or a perfectly good spell slot (or whatever have you), if you can just use mundane, reusable assets?
@@lolmanboss Also I imagine it would be more effective to do something else in combat than wasting time casting a shield spell when you could instead just drop the one your holding and use it for cover instead of weaving a spell and burning your time & spellpower on something which could be done with a bit of wood instead.
I needed world anvil for this d&d adventure i'm making, so thank you so much!!!
Your vids are incredible. Thanks for doing what you do!
Is der milk in dis
*Milk-drinker spotted*
Whats a milk drinker like you doing out here?
Genuinely thought that was dutch for a second
Milk: it does an army good.
"You don't Roleplay Travel alot" Meanwhile i have 3 years worth of Calendars for DnD campaigns with every day of Travel events recorded. We go hardcore
question, how do you run travel time in dnd and how do you make it interesting?
seconding since this was never answered
Thirded.
Fourthed boi i need answers
Dropping a ding in case this ever gets anwsered
Thank you, I'm making a homebrew setting, I'm trying to incorporate historic armor for the setting. This will do quite nicely.
Curious about combining armor types. As in, wearing more than one type simultaneously.
One that sticks in my mind is, from outermost in:
*leather* (once upon a time I'd have gone with plate, but you've shown that weight is an issue)
*gambeson* (you've really sold me on this even before I watched this vid today)
*riveted mail* (I do pay attention to your vids)
*basic outfit* (like your average t-shirt)
I've always found it strange with spellcasters not being able to touch metal/iron in order for their magic to work.
If "touch" or skin contact is all that prevents it, then why wouldn't a spellcaster simply get ahold of some laquered metal plate or just wear gambeson underneath?
The layer of paint in laquered armour, or the thick cloth of the gambeson should insulate the spellcaster from having skin contact with the metal and thus allow magic to be used anyway.
A more consistent explanation would be if magic was described as a kind of radiation, similar to the way that real world gamma rays can't penetrate a certain thickness of lead.
I think Shad was explaining that the metal might dampen or block the energy that the spell caster uses.
I think there is some merit to that. If there was a real world magician he would probably use electromagnetic waves to manipulate the world around... and a metal object on him can possibly short circuit or get heated with his energy. So I can imagine a magician will actually cook/electrocute himself in a full plate armor. But even small metal object on his body can be a problem. To better illustrate what would happen is like putting a metal object in a microwave oven... it's not good. So there is some logic to not have metal on magician and the more powerful the magician is the more problems metals on his body can cause. Also a powerful magician does not need plate armor or any type of armor they can use magic shields, so they don't need to burden themselves with heavy armor.
In other words metal armors may act as a "faraday cage" on a magician. So he would definitely not want to wear something that will hinder any of his main strengths.
That depends on the setting and version. D&D often explains it as inflexible metal armor interfering with the somatic components of casting magic rather than metal being anathemic to it. If it did, then all of that enchanted jewelry would suddenly be pretty awkward.
Setting. In dnd5e if you have proficiency then you dont have any problems casting your spells.
Think of Elder Scrolls. Battlemages go around in heavy armor and a mace blasting people with lightning and summoning devils
@@Slav4o911: Yes. An explanation like that is much more satisfactory and helps with suspension of disbelief rather than an arbitrary "magic users can't wear armour, because skin contant with armour makes their magic fizzle out, because... Reasons..."
Best armor is CLEARLY a armor made of Dragon Scales.
Dont forget the dragons!
But what about dragon hide armor?
Honestly, I feel a setting with monsters being around kinda throws a wrench in the works for gamebeson.
That said, I realize it's a bit too specific for a non specific settings video.
Dragonbone armor?
@@Nicmadis
Not sure why this "throws a wrench", it is still a good default. Of course, if an adventurer goes against a specific type of monster and has time to prepare, he will don specific armor, but other than that...
In any case, no way to have a discussion about unknown properties, so unless we establish some universe first with particular information about such things like "dragon hide exists and works like this: ..." or "mithril is a thing and has the following properties:...". Everything would be wild speculation. Especially for dragon hide, for which we certainly need magic to explain if it should be far above the strength of regular leather.
@@ksortakhkraxthar5019 Pretty much my thoughts for a unspecified setting. I was just making a remark based on Alberto's comment, since it assumes a setting with dragons.
While dragon scale armor sounds nice but the scales rot away after a few years, its heavy, and the scales are to big to make armor with. personally I have dragon resistant armor forged by dedicated wizards it is an alloy of adamantine, mithril, and vacaydel. Although the hard parts of making my armor is the vacaydel which is made by skinning the mage armor off a necromancer that just died and enchanting it with wyvern poison.
Out of curiosity: do you make your video in one try is there a lot of post editing? Cause you have such a fluid and consistent way to explain, covering every subject with a very fast speech.
Very informative, thank.
One significant factor in this scenario would be ease of donning/doffing. It would be difficult-to-impossible for someone to don/doff a full suit of plate by themselves. That was typically done by a squire. It would also be exhausting to march long distances since heat doesn’t escape well. The types of more-protective armor that could be readily worn and even marched in are (IMO): brigandine/coat-of-plates, a maille shirt with half-sleeves, a cuirass/breastplate. Add a gambeson with long sleeves underneath and a helmet and that’s probably all you could carry in addition to your pack.
8:23, ha! Thou sayeth that thee shall cometh for my dice?! My collection is too vast for thy arms to hold!
Shad Fact: Shad was attacked by a Shai-hulud on his travels. The locals seemed rather annoyed that disintegrated the beast completely. Still researching why.
This is my favourite Shad video. Good points throughout. :)
"We should really rework how armor works in rpg games." I agree. In fact, I agree so much that I did rework that when I wrote one. I'm glad I did.
Yeah what's dumb is in Pathfinder 1st edition, padded armor only grants a +1....whereas leathers grants +2, studded leather +3....but like you said in your other video on gambeson, it's more effective at dispersing the force of oncoming attacks, whereas leathers isn't. Leather might stop a slash or 3 but you might still have a broken rib or fractured ulna after the encounter. So yes, make that video sir!
It’s the same for 5th edition d&d, almost. Padded/Gambeson and leather are both +1 and studded leather is +2, but padded causes disadvantage to stealth for the tradeoff of being much cheaper, costing like 5gp compared to leather with is 10gp
In 5E DnD, padded and leather armor are both 11 + Dex mod, but the former is somehow too bulky to sneak with...
RokuroCarisu yeah and yet the medium hide armor isn’t, never made sense to me
@@lordjub-jub5254 Hide armor is meant to be made of multiple layers of (usually untreated) leather, so it does make sense to be a little more protective, but it really makes no sense how this even thicker, bulkier version of padded armor somehow doesn't give disadvantage to stealth.
And it’s actually not more protective, padded armor, without the assistance of magic caps out at 16AC not including a shield, Hide armor caps at 14AC without feats, 15 with a special feat
YES!!!! I've Been Asking for this. Now lets see what the Great Sage Shad has for us. XD
I love that you mentioned pattrick rothfuss. That series is hands down my favorite. Love your vids btw.
Man your book collection is awesome
The only armour an adventurer needs is one that includes knee protection.
Joshua Lim and torso of course, of wait, that's for that certain stormcloaks veteran
@@masayukitachibana2756 why use armor when your abs are solid steel?
Only in Skyrim.
@@BDSquirrel I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee.
*That man need some milk*
Someone drinking milk? Udder ridiculousness
And I can't drink milk so beer will have to do.
What's a milk drinker like you doing around here? Go home to your mother.
Really noone knows why does inetrnet Cancer means ?
@@starimadari4031 No one cares Stari - clever words and phrases get invented and forgotten too fast to bother with. Straight talking wins every time hands down. Try it sometime.
I would like to hear some discussion regarding mixing armor types as well. Like a plate mail boots to protect from caltrops Leather Gloves for half-swording and a gambison for comfort (maybe with a chain shirt to throw over in times of need while still taking up less space in your pack?) and plate or brigandine greaves?
I think it would best to wear the Gambeson almost all the when you travel around. I'm no expert, like Shad, but I would recommend to take a light set of Armour around with you if your traveling in dangerous places. Like a set of light brigadine armour and a bit of Chain to protect areas like the neck or under the arm pits.
Best historical armor for a fantasy adventurer? Castle. With machicolations.
Actually i think that cloth armor (like few layers of thin gambeson and other clothes) could be very good and usefull. Difference between regular armor would be that travel armor would be more functional in defending against "elements", i mean weather, for example it would have hood so you can defend from rain. Also probably there would be some holes for ventilation (like small holes under armpits). Also, it can have special pockets that can be filled with either stuff to carry, or with steel plates (to make semi coat of plates)
And in some settings it can be enchanted to be strong like steel
just use a cloak
Wtf are layers of thin gambeson? Gambesons are already layers of cloth; be it linen or wool.
@@Luis519RS i mean one thin gambeson over other, because if it's hot outside then you can wear only one, but in winter you can wear both
Not very logical. Are you teleporting between realms with considerable different weathers. Cant you just procure a gambeson fit for the weather you are on? You still end up having to carry all your gear even if you dont wear some. And wearing 2 gambeson no matter how thin, will be very uncomfortable. Just like wearing 2 thin jackets is much more uncomfortable than wearing 1 thicker jacket.
Mages wearing robes can be explained with simple traditions, as scholars living in academies they would be expected to wear formal clothes, the robes could also have ceremonial value, like the ones worn by the catholic clergy, and it would help them in performing high level rituals.
My take on that is generally in a fantasy world mage robes are enchanted to help with spellcasting and that it's much harder to enchant metal armor to do the same thing. Not to mention in average a mage in a fantasy world are generally physically weaker then the average adventurer so they would tire out faster if they did wear armor and a tired mage can't concentrate very well.
In the setting i Play i am the " white mage " and Most humanoids wont Attack White mages so you wear the Robe so anyone can See who you are
they should wear gambeson to not die from the first arrow that touches them
AgusD Memes I went to Wizard College for a Major in evocation and a Minor in abjuration. I spend most of my time studying, partying with the Da Bois, and “protesting” for the rights to learn necromancy at the college public speech area. You think I have time to learn about light armor and how to wear it? Nah Mage armor.
My take on mages wearing robes is it's a status symbol like them saying "Hey!! You see these Robes and Staff!?! That's right! I spent Year's learning the Arcane Art's!! And graduated I'm Awesome!!" It's also a mark of pride no different than a Noble wearing his house crest upon his tunic or cloak and indeed they have every reason to be proud of their accomplishment. :D
Shad! I just watched the movie The Messenger, noticed alot of neat things, lots of gambeson and most of the armor looks nice and the fighting was great, maybe consider a review on it!
In D&D you could add levels of exhaustion when traveling in armor I agree, that could also help keep emersion by keeping bandit levels around the same and still keep challenging the party even when they get to a higher level.,or at least still being able to do damage to the party.
Also for the wizard shield bit, you could have one of those types that you stake into the ground and give you partial cover.
Shad, while I agree I also disagree on the whole Armor Fatigue thing. In D&D the Armor Training isn't just you knowing how to use it, but also being conditioned to use it for the same amount of effort as the rest of the party. For example in 5th Edition anyone can wear full plate, even the mage. But they are under severe penalties, even when it's put on them correctly due to a lack of training and conditioning. Secondly, the average human has around 10 constitution and 12 strength. To wear full plate without mallius requires 15 strength minimum and most warriors won't (or would) be caught dead with less than 14 constitution.
He's a professional, a man who's not only trained, but conditioned and strong enough to fight in that armor without exhausting himself. His responsibility is to stand at the front, to take the beating so his friends don't have to. Clerics wear up to chain mail, but some specs gain training in full plate.
Most fighters you see in fantasy however don't even wear full plate, the picture for example uses some plate elements, boots, gauntlets/gloves, breast plate. And most people count that as 'half plate' and it doesn't have the steep strength requirement, but is slightly less protective.
While I agree that armor needs reworks as 'AC' is a horrible, flat cap meaning 'how hard it is to hit the guy' covering both how hard it is to get damage through the plate or rather or not they can dodge. I'd rather have armor add damage resistances, while agility ups flat hit/miss. I'd also make blunt weapons hit with a lower Accuracy making high dodge AC effective against it, but have it punch more through resistances like a hammer striking armor. Likewise I'd have blades and stuff which are quick and keen pretty much bounce off of the heaviest armors.
You also must remember who your adventurers are. The way I've heard it is level 1-4 = game of thrones characters, 5-7 = lord of the rings characters, 8 to 12 being legends and demigods of their craft like Gandalf, The Witch King, Riddick from the Chronicles of Riddick. While 14-17 are getting into superhero level with 17-20 being literal low level divinity in the setting. The Avatar of the God of War would be between these levels. Kratos would fit comfortably in this field.
You're wearing 2 inches of solid cloth, sometimes with metal on top. This doesn't breathe and it's insulating. Armour will /always/ fatigue.
The non-fighters would be worse of. But there's no way it would have no effect.
Historically, armoured people left their visor up and gauntlets of unless they were fighting, and plate men at arms fight in bursts of only 10 min or so to avoid collapsing.
IMHO the most stupid thing about armor in D&D/Pathfinder is the fact it does not protect against magic/elements.
Seriously, taking the same damage from a fireball whether you're naked or wearing full plate armor and behind a pavise? Who thought of that?
And even when facing a mundane snowstorm, in D&D wearing a gambeson does nothing. You might as well be naked. And the default way to actually solve the issue of elements... is casting some spell or wearing some magic ring or whatever that gives you elemental resistances. As if.... you know - protective clothing - ... didn't exist.
Also, the idea that metal armor makes people more vulnerable to electricity... when in fact it would mostly work as a Faraday cage, safely grounding most of it. Jewelry on the other hand can be bad - some people struck by lightning have indeed suffered additional burns when their jewelry was heated up by electric currents from the lightning. Although burnt skin is probably better than cardiac arrest or other possible side effects of getting electrocuted.
Anyway, I tried playing Pathfinder with some houserules that added damage reduction to armor, but trying to balance it properly was an awful experience, and players generally ignored it. What I hoped for - to make fights against heavily armored opponents feel vastly different and require different tactics than fighting against agile but lightly armored ones - didn't really work, as players would use the same tactics either way :/
@@thekaxmax Not if you're a cold-blooded race, which in those games never seems to come with all the problems that actual cold-blooded creatures have to deal with.
@@thekaxmax yes fatigue, but less then you would think, the ten minute thing is a myth. sort of. soldiers tend to have mutual pauses in fights (a lul i believe), useually 15 minutes of intense fighting then a lul which could be short or long, 'knights' on foot lasted about as long as everyone else, and we have acounts of fully armoured knights fighting on the frontlines for hours with no mentioned luls. essentially while in theory an unarmoured fighter can last longer, it isn't significantly longer as the knight is less affected by their fatigue (as with fewer gaps to defend means being slower is less of an issue) which balances it out evenly or even in the armoured man's favour. remember knights plate was not singificantly heavier then other armor (and better fitting) and actually better insulated then regular armour.
as for how much fatgue? that depends on the training. it will fatigue ou compared to unarmoured but well trained people can go further in armor then untrained without armor, as armor is well distributed meaning its not a significant weight as a backpack with the same mass. likewise an untrained man in 40Ib plate armor will get less fatigue then a man carrying a 40Ib pack.
Overhauling the AC system is fun to think about until you realize it's just more information to account for during combat. Which is fine I guess if the number-crunching is what you enjoy, but it brings the story to a screeching halt. Back when I used to DM, it got to the point where we basically ignored combat and the dice only came out for skill checks and the like.
On the other hand, I'm sure there's better ways to handle combat than what I could do, and the beauty of D&D is that it's infinitely adaptable.
best armor to ware and travel at the same time.. come on.. that 's easy.... bilbo baggins mithral chain... or elven chain armor...
mithril plate armor for warriors. all the protection, half the weight.
@@Rembanspellsong Wasn't mithril practically weightless so plate armor would also weigh almost nothing and not just 1/2 of a normal one
@@nicks.2612they may have changed that since I played DnD, but the rule used to be that it weighed 1/2 the normal weight
@@Rembanspellsong I was going from lord of the rings not dnd
@@nicks.2612they never really say how light mithril is in Lotr, just that it is light and hard as dragonscale
I know Shad is trying to get like "real" but in my games our fighter had an amulet that stored his armor like a bag of holding, and just pressing it would summon and fully equip his armor instantly. and our barb had this massive intelligent tower shield that floated along side him and followed him around providing cover and protection when he needed... just some ideas in a magic world there ^^
I've worn mail and gambeson for days on end with hours of heavy combat and field formations in the SCA in my younger years. Now, I do completely agree with the gambeson, mail does distribute well with a proper belt. With the gambeson, you definitely need a ton of water, especially even when it is mild outside and you're moving quite a bit. Thank you for the channel, I'm deep in a historic graphic novel, and the protagonist usually is in a gambeson, and that is about it, but I have been entertaining adding mail, even if it is for an aesthetic purpose. This channel, a few others, and my personal knowledge/collection have helped leaps. Thank you.
You're assuming the adventurers would be traveling all the way on foot like Frodo rather then on horseback, in a wagon or even via a river boat. Also since we are in a setting where magic exits things like stamina potions/spell could negate fatigue etc.
Great points...
Riding on horseback for days while in full armor can still be exhausting. Potions also tend to work like Magical five hour energy so good right when you expecting trouble or need a boost from a ambush but unless you got to reach the Citadel by night fall and ride flat out with no rest, long term fatigue is still going to be an issue.
5:28 as a roman reenactor ,,,,YOU HAVE NEVER WORN YOUR DAMN GAMBESON when its 35°Celsius in the shadow
i prefer mail with Linen-cloth underneath over any Woolen cloth in a very hot environment !
it is also more preferable when crossing through a small river,
since it(the linen) dries in minutes
also i learned Hamata is much easier to maintain than Segmentata
Hamata would also be better against piercing weapons like spears,daggers or shortsword
a Gambeson could be really effective against cutting weapons like sabers or longswords
and a Gambeson might be the better gear when fighting animals like Bears or other monsters ,since they can absorb some of the shock power when then Ram into you
a Gambeson could also show advantages in the cold
so in similar conclusion ,, dress for your enemies and dont focus to much on a single design or otherwise your biggest Strength could be become your biggest weakness
Gambesons can be (and sometimes were) made out of linen. Some were even made out of silk, in the Middle East. The thing is, once you get that much cloth layered together, it no longer matters what it's made of, you're gonna roast.
yeah ,but the point is still same ,,,and going into much detail is not really something for youtube comments
yes i could be more detailed when i wrote that comment but the comment would be so long nobody would have read it in the first place
I just watched your video about the brigandine armor. I think that would be a good piece for an adventurer that wants additional protection on top of a gambeson while still remaining fairly unencumbered while traveling long distances.
Great video, thanks Shad.
Dragon Scale armor its light and is good for fireproofing.
How would that actually work? You´d have to somehow hold all the scales together to form some kind of armor, and whatever holds them together needs to be fireproof as well. So sewing with thread or leather is out of the questions. Metal wire would be fireproff, but it conducts heat like a bitch... and in generl, unless the armor covers 100% of your body, which is going to be quite hard, a dragon´s breath kind of attack will most likely still burn enough of your body to put you out of comission.
@@KanaiIle i think its mostly to help against those annoying pyromancers. As if you are able to kill a dragon without using a heat resitance armor you didn't really need it and its mostly a extra level of protection just in case
@@KanaiIle well technically speaking if you overlap the scales (which most scale armor types do) you can do a fairly good job at concealing the thing that hold the scales together from fire-based attack with other scales.
but then you'd still not want to stand in a way of fully sized dragon's firebreath really..... unless you have some sort of magical protectin against it then maybe it'd be viable (fireprooving would be there reather for things like fireballs or something)
slightly cheaper alternative would just be a dragon scale shield...
While dragon scale armor sounds nice but the scales rot away after a few years, its heavy, and the scales are to big to make armor with. personally I have dragon resistant armor forged by dedicated wizards it is an alloy of adamantine, mithril, and vacaydel. Although the hard parts of making my armor is the vacaydel which is made by skinning the mage armor off a necromancer that just died and enchanting it with wyvern poison.
The Gambeson doesn't like that cool. that's the problem. It literally looks like a winter coat that you will wear in the city that you can buy at KnGs
I don't think it has to be squares. As long as it's thick it should work, right?
You could probably make some interesting designs, though all of them are going to look bloated.
I'm heavy homebrewing at the moment and this video has greatly influenced how I handle armor. CON limits the h/day you can wear heavy armor before getting exhausted and everyone carries a gambeson because they're cool, comfy, and useful
I've always said that unless you're specially trained in the armor, the composition could interfere with how you gather and move magical energies, and the bulkiness could interfere with some of the movements needed.
You missed the real reason rogues wear leather armor.
They wear leather because it's made out of hide.
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A shield wouldn't be all that great if a magic user requires 2 hands to cast, it really depends on the lore of the fantasy world or the type of magics being used.
There are shields designed to be held without the hand.
idk they could use a pavise & just stick it into the ground as mobile cover :P
Same restrictions in that case would largely apply to magical staffs, wands, scepters and the like as well (unless they were used as foci, which they rarely are outside Harry Potter). But yes, D&D has a number of basic spells that in AD&D (that in later supplements went into such details) required two-handed gestures, example being the level 1 spell Burning Hands which required both hands to be held out in a fan-like shape when casting it, while others like the classic trifecta of Magic Missile, Lighting Bolt and Fireball were single-hand spells that could in theory be used behind a shield. 3E mostly just ignored specifics like that and used the spell failure chance as just a broad generic modifier.
But yeah, as pointed out, a lot of tower shields were able to be stuck into the ground as mobile cover, and archers (more crossbow users) deployed them for that purpose in a few historical instances, and mages should in theory be able to as well.
Speaking of which, I was thinking of a Skyrim playthrough with a mage that uses a shield on one hand, magic on the other.
That's a common enough playstyle (especially with Spellbreaker, best of both worlds) when new perk mods (like Ordinator when it first came out) are released a ton of "shield mages" show up demanding perks to cater for it.
Combining elements. For example, gambeson based armor with reinforced parts in vulnerable places. For example Romans had shoulders reinforced. When the leather/mail/plate parts do not tough each other but only the gambeson, the noise level does not increase that much. Gambeson can also have inlaid metal plates.
It also allows making cool looking fantasy armors.
There is also the element of fun, it's fun for each party member to have a unique role at which they excel, having a way of mirroring that visually adds to that.