Cut the Sliding Dovetail Joint with common hand tools.
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- There's another dovetail that you might not know about. Learn to cut it and use it.
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0:00 Intro
0:16 Starting with Confidence
1:15 The Guide
3:20 Chiseling
4:35 Battens
4:58 Making the Moravian
7:00 Make a Tool!
9:03 Plans
10:13 Fitting
11:58 Outro - Jak na to + styl
Love this book! czcams.com/users/postUgkxpCNxqmAkyjN6NPx1fyB7QiEFWyO5mUWL it is simply one-of-a-kind! I really love it, because karah explained all tools required to have the job done, not mentioning the fabulous diy pallets ideas. I'm pretty sure this will be a fresh start in my new endeavour. Amazon was great, they delivered on time. Thank you!
Hi Rex, I like your work.
Btw it is interesting how here and there pops out Moravian stool, Moravian workbench... Since I am from Moravia, it makes me proud, haha.
I like to taper my sliding dovetails and cut the batten long. It goes in real easy until it doesn't. Pound on it a few more times to make it tight, and then trim off both ends. I learned that from Roy!
Exactly! Tapered sliding dts are MUCH easier to make than straight ones.
Narration helps so much thank you Rex!👍👍
I think that when using the guide to saw the housing, clamping it so that the saw leans OVER the housing rather than away from it, two things are afforded. You may clamp directly on the layout line rather than judging how much saw kerf you must allow for, and the stock is protected from mishaps when getting the cut started. Also, cutting into an acute angle seems to capture the sawblade a trifle more surely than an open, obtuse one.
I love your introduction of the scratch stock! Such a great tool. Without any grinding of shaper knives or similar fuss, you can quickly file out custom profiles for small moldings, flute or reed edges, even make proper matching drop leaf joints!
I love glueless/fastenerless joinery. Looking forward to the future videos
I have no idea if you'll ever read this comment... But I just wanted to say that YOU are amazing Rex! Thank you for all the excellent work you do! 🥳
If my nonexistent economy had allowed it I would've subscribed to your Patreon a long time ago... Until the day it does, my eternal gratitude for what you do will have to suffice! 🙏
Your kind words are payment enough.
Rex if you 3d print, just print a fence for your fillister plane that skew a little bit. Super cheap sliding dovetail plane.
Awesome as always 👍
I always use tapered sliding dovetails though - by tapering both parts of the joint by, say, 2-3mm along the entire length you don’t have to whack it in & risk breakage but when it finally binds it binds along its entire length.
Hah! The tape trick for holding the metal while sanding is brilliant! And I gotta make that scratch stock. The old holders I made aren't functioning properly.
Well done Rex. Very interesting. Have you considered considered making a canted kerf cutter to cut in your dovetail sides. Using a saw segment to an appropriate sized mini vice with the jaws cut to the angle of dovetails sides,using small carriage bolts to connect the jaws. The saw segment could be set to the desired depth. Secure an appropriate height fence where needed. Make a 90 degree kerf cutter to remove the waste. Setting the depth of both cutters the same you have fast, accurate almost foolproof dovetails. Quickly repeatable.
I hope I explained it clearly. It’s easier than my explanation. I hope it helps somebody & Rex I think you could do a great Video.
Wanted to thank you for your videos. I made a coat rack (actually a belt rack to take to shows and fairs to sell my leather stuff). I used mortise and tenon legs to stand upright, cut using a chisel and the big mallet from your plans. The cross piece has dowels in in at an angle that I learned using your video on making a bench (where you showed getting the angle right for the legs). Then I made a loose mortise and tenon with pins to I can put it up and take it apart at the end of the day.
A couple things I've learned doing sliding dovetails:
I really like using the depth stop on Japanese pull saws for finishing out those partial depth cuts. Takes a bit of practice, but it works so well and requires a lot less futzing with cleanup for me. (demonstration of depth stop made by Jonathan Katz-Moses here: czcams.com/video/981Z_9A7daE/video.html)
I also wax my guides. It helps a lot with the friction. If I'm gonna do a lot of joints, then I'll embed some neodymium magnets along the guide to keep the saw against it so I can focus on the cut without the awkward press into the guide and cut at the same time mechanic.
I've also found that if It's a piece I'm gonna be banging around, a dab of glue on just one side of the battons can help not accidentally knocking them partially out. I like using hide glue right at the edge so I can get it back apart with a little heat if I need to repair something.
Hope that's helpful to someone.
@jsmxwll, what Japanese pull saw depth stop are you talking about? A user made one? Can you tell a little more about it, please? Intrigued!
@@leehaelters6182 The flat part at the end of the saw is a depth stop. You can see KM demonstrate it here czcams.com/video/981Z_9A7daE/video.html hope that helps
@@jsmxwll, thank you for showing me. I would be inclined more to call it a raker tooth, one that functions as a paring chisel. I think that I have used it occasionally, off the cuff, so to speak. I do not see it as having a gauging action or as a depth stop that prevents one from digging further, and that was what threw me. Thanks for the help, and all the best!
@@leehaelters6182 If you get one side down to the correct depth and tilt the saw up, it can't cut further. Most people I've seen talk about it just refer to it as a depth stop. If you want a more positive method, I often stick rectangular neodymium magnets to my saw at the required depth. They are strong enough to not move and give good positive stop. I have a couple glued into dead straight pieces of hickory for when I don't trust my own ability to stop on time.
@@jsmxwll thanks, I will give it a try, with practice maybe I can make it work. The magnetic stop is boss! How do you remove it from the saw plate, adjustable wrench? Or maybe the pull saw is so flexible you can peel it off?
I have seen an antique western tool that I covet for this depth stop function. It is a backsaw with the handle attatched to the back, not the plate. The plate passes right through the back, which is only two bars, really, and is clamped at the desired depth.
Just a beginner here, your videos are really interesting and informative Rex. I really like the idea of hand tools.
Wow, the scratch stock was an eye opener! Especially in it opening limitless possibilities. After all, the blade can be either straight or curved in any shape.
Thanks a lot, I'll make one from a piece of old blade of motorized metal cutting saw (from Soviet times, when those were standard). These are incredibly sharp for long time.
Richard McGuire (The English Woodworker) demonstrated cutting rabbets with a chisel and a hammer. He made it look crazy simple, especially since the hammer he used was a chisel and an old "lump" hammer, or what I learned to call a single jack. I was particularly interested at the time because I wanted to stopped rabbets for a mahogany mirror frame I was making.
Wonderful work man… again, very clear and helpful explanation too.. already can’t wait for your next video 😂
Love the attention to detail: specifically the tiny *pop* at 3:34
Love the saw guide!
Thank you again Rex. Great second watch.
That use of a scratch stock is a clever idea. I will keep it in mind. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for making this so accessible Rex, Now feel I could give this a decent go !
An excellent explanation. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
Fantastic work, Rex! Thanks for all the tips! 😃
I'm going to build a scratch stock, but more likely a marking gauge. This way it's more adjustable.
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
You will find the marking gauge indispensible once you use it!
9:03 "One page set of plans, exclusive to patreons" :D Damn dude you're good :)
This is amazing! Really great method
Your videos are so satisfying to watch 🙏💪
Excellent! Thanks Rex for the ideas. It's a joint I've always considered doing but shied away from. I'll have a go now though.
I've been learning more about this joint trying to make my own moravian stool.
I've been watching a lot of videos in German and I'm noticing an interesting difference with your technique. To make it easily fit you're removing material from the middle (like Chris Schwarz also said), but none of the German woodworkers do this. Instead, they all make the batten and the slot slightly wedge shaped, so that the batten goes in easily for 2/3 of the way, and then tightens in the final 1/3.
Here in Europe this joint is very common in old chairs and tables. It even has its own name, it's called a 'Grat' joint (Gratverbindung). It also has a specialty saw and plane that makes the work a lot easier (Gratsäge and the Grathobel, which you showed).
Excellent video! I learned a lot, and it went quickly.
"We made a one page set of plans exclusive to our Patreons."
*Shows the 1 page in high enough resolution that everyone watching can see every detail.*
I mean, I'm not complaining or anything, it just kind of made me lol. xD
Another way to get them in easily is to taper them ever so slightly, like a millimeter across the whole length of the baton.
Makes sense but how?
@@smashyrashy just lay out tapered and don't cut to length until fit.
awesome video, i learnt a lot of new things !
If the table saw hadn't been invented for other reasons yet, this alone certainly would have made it worthwhile.
Excellent!
Nice, been waiting
Yayyyyy I’m always excited 😂
Very good video. But I miss your opening jingle and joke. That was kind of your signature/brand, and set the right light hearted tone for your channel. Perhaps it was too much work for you, but I bet I'm not the only one who misses it.
Thank you
I just made my first mortise n tenon? I think? joints to put log legs on a log stool using a chisel and blade drill bit only. A bit wiggly but solid enough to drag around the garden yay im on my way thanks Rex!!
Rex, in southern Germany, ward robe close doors, that are usually made of two wide boards, use a tapered joint to hold the closet doors. Bavarian chairs are also made using the same technology. Nails or fasteners are expensive; another piece of local pine is always available.
Not only in southern Germany. This joint is used all over Europe. And not only for doors and waderobes, also for tabletops it was used. In German it is called " Gratleiste"
@@MH-sw8cghere in sweden too. "Gradlist"
I learned to make the groove tapered, so that it gets tight with the last hits for getting it flush.
Very interesting.
Thanks
Thanks for the reminder about scratch stocks. At 72 it's not what I know it's what I remember.
another thing the sliding dovetail is really good at is for making one wide board out of many narrow ones.
all you need to is cut the sliding dovetails through all of your narrow boards, then make batons that are long enough to go across al your narrow boards to join them together.
this video is a great example, although perhaps a bit advanced for people who are new to woodworking:
czcams.com/video/WkmtqP-YKwI/video.html
hi planing on making a nice bookcase and think the sliding dove tails would look lovely to hold the shelves
Sure. That's a technique that people use for shelves. Practice on scrap!
I have read that sliding dovetail runners are used in Europe a lot. ECE used to have a sliding dovetail saw, and I think Ulmia still sells one. They are just a crosscut saw with a built-in 45 degree bevel
You will see a lot in second hand tool sales where they are usually labelled as 'staircase saws' - the difference being that real staircase saws are flat across the bottom of the wooden handle while dovetail saws have angled faces with the saw blade coming out of the point of the 'V'.
Yes, it's a common joint in Europe, and it has its own name in German (Grat) that has nothing to do with the word for dovetails (Zinke).
It would be cool to show the specialist tools for this joint! The sliding dovetail plane (Grathobel) is mentioned in the video, but the other tool is the 'Gratsäge' which is the only western pull-saw. It has fairly rough crosscut teeth and is designed to be pulled towards the user. This allows a stopped joint (similar to a stopped dado) and it gets out the sawdust to prevent the teeth getting clogged. Also, the depth of the saw blade is adjustable, so you get a consistent depth for the whole joint.
@@bakerzermatt I would watch that video a 100 times.
@@byronservies4043 if you search 'Gratverbindung' 'Gratsäge' and 'Grathobel' you can find some cool videos, but they'll be in German. Still, there's a lot to learn just by watching them work!
It's also cool to see them use the German style router plane (Grundhobel) that's a big block of wood with an L-shaped blade.
czcams.com/video/dX5g1eXyW-I/video.html
Hello Rex. I'm from Moravia in Czech Republic, where this stool comes from. I'm looking forward to see the full build. Tomas.
4:30 to 4:40, for those who are well equipped enough to have that router, then you can use that directly to gauge the line on your batten.
Yeah!
Personally when cutting the plank I like to work far to near. You can easily over shoot the near side by accident. Also the scratch can help you tune the groove. Not just the batten if you add a top deck fence to ride the surface.
To make your saw cut easier try clamping from the seat surface instead of the button. That puts the bulk of the clamp hanging down out of the way of the saw blade.
I'm not sure if it's common in Japanese and Korean but in Chinese furniture this sliding dovetail baton is very commonly used in frame and panel construction. some even make tapered dado and batten to lock it tight on the panel.
Same in europe. Do you have a special small saw with a woodem back for it like here in europe or just use the frame saw?
@@borjesvensson8661 yes and the saw back is made in one piece with the handle, looks like this: tshop.r10s.com/eb9/129/c798/8bbd/70c9/68e1/d16f/11d8ec88620242ac110003.jpg?_ex=486x486
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
There seems to be an optical illusion when you are placing the batten against the seat to check the layout lines - it looks as if the batten is only as wide as the narrowest portion of the dovetail, not the widest.
A japanese azebiki saw is great for this
Must clear the dust more easily, eh?
Why not do one of the homemade style router planes with a chisel to bulk remoce material before coming in with the regular router plane?
I would probbly have used a simple rabet plane
👍
Stupidly, this was the first joint I started woodworking with before standard dovetails.
Where is link to Chris Schwartz article?
www.popularwoodworking.com/wp-content/uploads/MoravianStool.pdf
Why would you not create the sawing guide using the battens? That way the guide you create is part of the finished piece and there’s no excess work.
Aaron, agreed. The batten does not really need a shoulder to function and, as you say, can be used itself for guiding the saw. Might become a bit scarred, but nothing another plane shaving would not fix. A good reason for leaving the battens long until fitting. And the batten can be given a proper taper in its length, as well.
Rex, I am only at 1:09, but you seem to be sizing your batten to drop into the housing, without anything left for a tail.
Why you would leave this comment without just finishing the video is a mystery I will never understand.
@@RexKrueger, point taken. Will advise.
@@RexKrueger, and thanks for the quick reply, I forgot to say. OK, I finished the video, but I do not see where it makes clear what that undersized batten is about, What time mark?
When was wood first used?
I'm not seeing the link to Schwarz's article mentioned @05:08...
I didn’t see the link in the description
I dont have a router plane. I can see using a small block and coarse sandpaper to work down the foot taking a bit more time
You can make one with a chisel and a piece of wood. Rex should have a video about.
@@saveriog.825 Not the best for this application, you can't really shave the corners since the chisel's bevel can't properly reach but you can make one with an allen key fairly easily
One of my favourite videos about woodworking is where Andrew Hunter describes how traditional Chinese woodworkers used tapered sliding dovetails in frame and panel construction: czcams.com/video/aD6qdJNU7GE/video.html I think he uses an electric router to cut his, but the method Rex describes should work just fine!
Did I miss it or didn't you mention that it HAS to be tapered?
I've cut this joint once before but I cheated and used the Bridgeport 🤣
What a terrible shame! You spent all that time & effort making such a precise joint, when it wasn't necessary. I go for Tapered Sliding Dovetails everywhere I can. Tolerances are far less critical, you use the same tools & procedures you used here, and the joint is easy to assemble -- as only the ends of the sliding part is going into infinite tightness!
Also: Why would you use a tenon saw for a crosscut?
Remember: Roy Underhill is watching you!
Next time; knife wall, chisel and router plane. No need for a saw, which is inherrently inaccurate.
Whats with the audio
Great video - $40 for a hand tool hero/screwdriver! Woah bro… that’s steep even for a fan
9:14 Wait what? So no to sponsorships??? Didn't you sponsor a tool product literally 3 minutes earlier?????? mkay......
Rex designed the tool and has them manufactured here in the USA. He owns the company that sells them, so essentially, there is no “sponsorship” although if you wanted to, you could say he is sponsoring himself. I hope that clears up your question..
The new format is missing all the personality.
Why am I in the 19th century