Vultr Claims Rights to Sell Your Data & Programs?
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- čas přidán 27. 03. 2024
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A few important things:
- This change wasn't in the latest TOS update if you check the internet archive. It's been there since at least June 2021 from what I can find.
- This was apparently in reference to their forum, not hosting, they just used a single TOS for both.
- They have since removed the section from their TOS since it's no longer actually needed.
I do still agree about the "agree to our new terms or you can't even login to cancel your service" type of setup being scummy though.
Good comment, and pinning because I didn't put timestamps in this video to address point #1. I did mention in the video that this change is not new, but people thought it was due to the prompt to accept the new terms only showing up over the past week. I forget the timestamp but it's 100% there. You can use archive.org to see the terms in December, web.archive.org/web/20231227045837/www.vultr.com/legal/tos/
To address point #2, here is why people did not believe this was for their forum - and I don't blame ANYONE who thought this was for their hosting services within the TOS I linked above.
*You have the following at number 6:*
_SERVICES At the time of initial registration, You will select from the list of available Services the service plan(s) to which You wish to subscribe (each a “Subscription”). All Subscriptions to Services are subject to formal acceptance by Vultr. Your Subscription to the Services will be deemed accepted by Vultr when Vultr delivers a confirmation of the Subscription to You. Vultr reserves the right to refuse to provide You with any Service for any reason. Notwithstanding Our Uptime Guarantee, Vultr also reserves the right to interrupt access to the Services to perform regular and emergency maintenance as needed. You may order additional Services at any time, provided that You agree to pay the then-current fees for such additional Services. All additional services shall be considered "Services" hereunder. All Services provided are subject to availability and to these Terms._
1) _"You will select from the list of available Services the service plan(s) to which You wish to subscribe (each a “Subscription”)."_ It's safe for someone to think when this is under _"services"_ in the TOS that is on the homepage of a host, that this is for the hosting services, not some web forum. Do you pay for a service plan to use a community forum for a company's products?
I can click onto hosting services *immediately* from here. Call me an idiot(you'd be right!) but I spent 40 seconds trying to find a community forum link and I can't find a thing.
2) When you are on vultr.com/tos, rather than vultr forums, and vultr.com is where you sign up for services, it is safe for a user to believe these are the terms for their hosting services.
*then you get this later on*
_"As between you and us, you own your User Content and you have full responsibility for all User Content you make or submit, including its legality, reliability and appropriateness, while using the Services. You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license (including the right to sublicense through multiple tiers) to use, reproduce, process, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, modify, prepare derivative works, publish, transmit and distribute each of your User Content, or any portion thereof, in any form, medium or distribution method now known or hereafter existing, known or developed, and otherwise use and commercialize the User Content in any way that Vultr deems appropriate, without any further consent, notice and/or compensation to you or to any third parties, for purposes of providing the Services to you"._
I can understand how someone reading this would think this applies to the hosting services you are paying a subscription for, rather than to some obscure community forum I can't even find on their website after clicking through. There isn't a single person who read through this who thought this applied to a community forum rather than their hosting services before the company's response, and there's a reason for that upon redaing the terms.
The company's response makes it sound like the reddit user *KNEW* this was a TOS for their community forum and chose to post what he did _with malicious intent to harm the company using false information._ I think that's kind of shitty, particularly given how easy it is to interpret their TOS that way, and more importantly, how other large providers do not have TOS that read like this at all.
@@rossmanngroup- When the 5 o'clock shadow turns into a full beard, we know Louis has attained cult status. :D :D
BTW. Shame on Vultr!
@@rossmanngroup Yeah I 100% agree it's confusing af and honestly, I would've assumed it was meant for the hosting as well. Would've been a lot better if they'd been more verbose about where that applied. Also yeah, looks like I missed you reference to point 1. Looks like it was ~5:06 in the video.
So was it removed or not?
@@sky-m7018 It was a good catch sir!!!! Thank you for posting. Nobody reading that TOS interpreted it as a reference to a community forum, and your post prompted me to explain why that is in great detail, which I didn't do in the video. I should've done that in the video! Good catch.
I think there is a chance this wasn't malicious. If that's the case, whoever wrote that page needs to be publicly flogged. At Rossmann Repair Group, if someone did that... they'd be wearing the clown suit. This isn't a meme, it's a demonstrable fact. www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/sosoy7/put_on_the_clown_costume_wagie/
People have worn the clown suit for less.
I *NEVER* want to hear you people say I'm a good boss again!
Forced arbitration should be illegal.
I agree, let's start with the trade agreements between the USA and every other country they have forced this exact system upon. Forced arbitration for regular users is just a continuation of official government policy wanting to disregard official courts and procedures. The USA was the one administering the rufies in the first place, now it's US based companies.
It is in the first world.
Agreed!
Anything requiring that I give up my right to a fair trial is a crock of crap and unconstitutional in my opinion
You may lobby congress for changes in Federal Arbitration Act
Forced or coerced consent is no consent at all and should be illegal.
It is illegal in any normal country (i.e. not the US).
It is also illegal in the US, doesn't mean companies stop trying to pull this crap.
@@michaelsonner1240 Law is only as good as the enforcement of it. The thing that differs here is that EU enforces its consumer protections and US seldom does that (though hopefully with DOJ suit against Apple that will start to change).
it takes lawyers and money to get to the point of contesting the validity of their 'consent' extraction so even if it's not bullet proof, it will weed out the vast majority of potential challengers
@@UltimatePerfection Unfortunately, consumer protection laws are basically the only ones Europe enforce more consistently and fairly than the US does. The western world is under a concerted attack from all sides.
Vultr acting like a Vulture pretty ironic lmao
Damnit, beat me to it.
yea was about to say, name checks out :')
Not sure if ironic. Appropriate or even poetic I would agree
And now there's a company trying to ruin my favorite bird's name!
@@MatthewCenance Your favorite bird is the Vulture? 🤔
After hearing that Facebook was just casually doing man-in-the-middle hacks on phones (and yes, I've never signed into that manure on my phone, and I FOUND that app active the other day... It was doing something), and all he has against him, is a class action lawsuit that was settled...
Meta, broke federal law on data security, and it's just a class action lawsuit. Calling them rapists really is the right term...
Don't forget we also have to hold phone manufacturers in this same category. If you're like me the only reason Facebook app is even there at all is that it was put there by manufacturers and cannot be uninstalled. I got it disabled, but I'm sure we both don't trust that is truly the case.
@@WolfkunDotInfounlock the boot loader and install your own OS
I don’t even call them by that name, I only call them Facebook cuz imo their name change was just to seem like they turned over a new leaf even though they continue to be probably as bad or worse than TikTok, except without the scrutiny because they’re a US company. The only reason I ever use Facebook is to browse marketplace. I’m really tempted to delete my Facebook account and just have a burner account that I access through tailsOS or something lol. Might even just purge a lot of my social media’s and go with SpaceHey, telegram, signal, etc if this is how companies are treating me
@@wilh3lmmusicyou can basically only do that on Google Pixel nowadays, and Google is Google
@@WolfkunDotInfo I thought it couldn't on mine, then I finally found it can...
Isn't a contract under coercion non-binding?
They are hiding behind an expensive, overwhelmed, legal system.
You spelled Corrupt wrong.
in my opinion it should be illegal, the fact that they dont provide a decline button forces you to agree to sign over your rights before you can cancel your account. The only way to prevent them from having legal right to all your data would be call them and cancel your account without accepting new terms of service or to cancel payment on the service. But both of these prevents you from being able to access YOUR data and move it off of there, effectively losing it.
My favorite quote from my father - " I wouldn't be a good lawyer if I couldn't get past a piece of paper."
You gained a lot of cred from me today by *using an LLM correctly.* Everyone and their parakeet focused on their generative applications (to pump out schlock) when these models are best used for _information extraction_ (best done with guardrails in place such as asking them to cite the line of the TOS instead of produce its own summary).
Lots of people shit on this stuff, but if you understand its limitations it's a useful tool. I feel the same way about people who universally shit on AI as I do about people who say video games cause kids to become violent.
Even at 6 years old, I saw video games as a form of fictional, not real, entertainment. Not as a representation of what is acceptable in the real world.
I don't think AI replaces humans wholecloth. just a tool, like search engines were 28 years ago, to make shit easier. Sometimes it's right, sometimes it gives bullshit results that have nothing to do with my query. And god if I'm going to directly copy & paste some shit I see on stackoverflow without really thinking about what it does into my personal computer.
but sometimes, it gets me where I need to be WAY faster than if I used 28 year old tools.
Search engines came out in the late 90s. Some tuning here & there, but at the end of the day... it's old shit.... I never expected that the first google result would answer all of my problems. I don't expect asking any generative AI how to do something advanced, write an essay, etc. will always give the right answer.
but what I can say, is that using it & messing with it gets me towards my goal FAR FASTER than going it alone. Rather than _"write me a program that does X"_ say _"these 4 lines in my 200 line are there to accomplish XYZ goal. I believe these 4 lines of code are not the most efficient way to accomplish XYZ goal. Knowing I wish to accomplish XYZ goal, can you tell me what parts of this code are inefficient, and why?"_
What do you have to lose having additional insight? When you can have it answer a SPECIFIC question rather than hope & pray someone else out there has answered a similar, GENERAL question, you learn so much faster. I'll take that.
They can be quite useful even in their right now quite limited forms.
I agree. The first week it came out i used it a lot for experiments on how it works.
As the days passed i used it less and less.
Currently the only ways i use it is to aid me with information search and extraction (tho it doesn't aleways do a very good job at it so yes it works better for citing)
Also ChatGPT in these cases is faster on finding something meaningfull than GoogleSearch. Use your common sense on knowing when it says something that makes no sense and you'll be fine
Using AI to check if they’re wrapping you the way to go
@@rossmanngroup You're right on the money. Transformers can't produce¹ any novel insights, but one doesn't always need insight. They _can_ extract maximal context from a natural language proompt and _can_ effectively synthesize a response (effectively: "how would the experts in my training data evaluate this code snippet?") much more efficiently than traditional search methods.
¹literally can't-those neural layers have been stripped out to focus on the "attention" mechanisms
I absolutely support your "rapey" terminology for how these scum companies work. Thank you for your continued public service!!
Vultr are literal vultures, who would've guessed.
use hetzner
When this cloud shit started, I hated the idea and everyone else was like "nah... it's very convenient, you got nothing to worry about".
Agh...
I mean, it is great for scaling, and a lot of people don't want to bother (or have resources/budget to) setting everything up on their own. For simple hosting -- sure, but if you want to scale, I don't think most want to have numerous hardware servers, set up load balancing/etc on their own. You are essentially paying for convenience, and that makes sense, apart from cases which Louis has highlighted.
@@ShmOG Its also very convenient for the provider to charge you far more than you'd expect 😁
@@ShmOG great for scaling and convenience until you get a half a million bill from aws for leaving an ec2 instance on lmao
I like it because the majority of mail services block residential IPs, and ISPs block the smtp port, like mine
@@ShmOG Nearly all "new Web businesses" are wasted time and money. Don't forget that part. I worked consulting to dozens of startups back in the 1990's and early 2000's. I don't have to guess.
I love that corpos like this insist on "perpetual, irrevocable" rights to your data, but I can't "purchase" any software without the fear of them revoking my license to it.
"I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further." That was supposed to be the villain in a fantasy space story tale, not a prediction for the world we live in.
CEO posted a response "we are HIPPA and GPRS compliant", well i guess they should lose their compliance now
GDPR*. GPRS is pre 2G cellular.
@@JeevaDotNet Maybe they are compliant with that too 😉
HIPAA*. HIPPA is not a thing. lol
@@michaelthornes HIPPOS and mobile phones. Too much of a zoo. Just needs some vultures now.
@@michaelthornes Maybe thats the point, they made typos on purpose so people would believe in HIPAA and GDPR while they never claimed it.
These terms are getting wild.
In the slippery slope of bad EULA terms, "we can do whatever we want with any of your data" is getting pretty close to the bottom of that slope.
Wonder if things will come full circle and people/companies will start self hosting again
@@outhouse.wholesalerI doubt it but I certainly hope so.
"The cloud is just another guy's computer. Don't put your shit on someone else's computer" - somebody smart
I was amazed when the world unquestioningly put all their stuff on some cloud, threw out their physical media and paid for always online subscription services. I backed up my whole music collection onto hard drives and I don't need to rely on a connection to Spotify; nor can a company take my games away, or my anime.
And I don't. I don't even let my games use cloudsave, much less data that matters to me.
I try to do that, but oftentimes you _can't_ host things on your own, because your ISP won't allow it, or the major players on the internet blackball you. A place like Vultr is how you host something on your own rather than letting Google or other giants control your data.
@@amonoceros Every ISP that I've ever used also has a business tier of service that gives you a static /29 block and allows stuff like self-hosting, running your own DNS, and sometimes even doing the reverse delegation to allow you to run your own reverse DNS as well. It's always substantially more expensive and you won't get the data and power redundancy offered by a decent data center, but your data stays on your own hardware under your control. Another option is colocating your own hardware in a data center, but again, that's usually pricier than renting a VPS, dedicated server, or cloud solution.
- Mental Outlaw
Thank you so much for bring this to everyone's attention! We as a society cannot allow this. I terminated my Vultr account immediately after I was forced to agree to these terms. Luckily I could get around agreeing by deleting the popup in the Developer console. Sorry but these people need to go out of business for pulling crap like this.
They already changed their ToS and removed that garbage 😆
@@techniquemtdThat doesn't change the fact that they thought it was okay to do it.
Every idiot:
"You don't need SD card slot,the cloud is so much better and convenient"....
Honestly I wouldn't trust SD cards too much with sensitive data, or bulk data either. You can get much more reliable SSDs and enclosures. Do that with USB-C so you have fast transfer rates.
However, SD cards are pretty tiny self contained packages. Which is cool.
Now I assume you are talking about phones, and some good phones will allow the usage of USB-C devices such as SSD enclosures which is awesome.
@@heroslippy6666
Yes,I am talking about phones.I agree,and disagree.
Why not just simply do a backup to the PC once a week,and be done with it.No dongles,no enclosures to carry around.
SD card is reliable enough.
@@TheChudoviste I have seen that there are some open source android apps for SFTP which is a file transfer protocol, and i've been thinking there might be a way to use that to automate wifi backups to PC every week. That way it'd be in my full control and also automatic so I don't forget.
the circus rolled into town, offering clown storage... who woulda guessed there would be funny business eh?
@@someguy4252 exactly
Wow. Those who thought this was acceptable, and those who went along with this should all be arrested.
Imagine renting a storage shed and the shed's owner can use your stored items however they wish WHILE YOU PAY THEM....
Imagine a parking garage that gets to use your car WHILE YOU PAY THEM...
What a fu**** up world we are in where this behavior goes unpunished.
Imagine paying for a bank account and the bank can use your stored money however it pleases WHILE YOU PAY THEM.
Wasn't this the status quo for like eons?
While this does actually piss me off, I fail to produce an argument as to why this is any different.
@Alice_Fumo money can be replaced easily, as it's currency, it's value is specific - unlike items, physical or digital, and the money lost by the bank gets reimbursed to the accounts, no?
@@Alice_FumoI think negative interest rates are required for you to pay them to hold your money. Theoretically you can put $1000 in the bank and come back 15 years later to $1000
@@Alice_Fumo
In other words - imagine you ask your friend to safekeep a 10 dollar bill because you don't have any pockets. Said friend decides to buy a lottery ticket, has no cash besides the bill you asked him to safekeep - pays with it, doesn't win...
Instead of not giving it back or just giving back what's left from buying the lottery ticket, he just gives you a new 10 dollar bill (that he just used an ATM to withdraw or something).
Not really a good thing for a friend to do, but there's still some integrity.
@@Alice_Fumo I don't know how your bank account works, but THEY PAY ME INTEREST for keeping my money in the bank. I pay them nothing; it's the other way around entirely. Putting money in your bank account isn't paying them. They have to give that back in full if you ask for it, so it's not theirs, so you're not paying them. THEY PAY YOU interest. That is how this is different. Is it enough interest? No, but for the sake of what defines a payment, you are definitely not paying your bank unless you owe them fees (which is something else entirely; that's a punitive payment you agreed to pay if you do certain things, like overdraw, when you signed up for the account) or have a negative interest rate.
I would never use such a cloud provider. It's insane. No one should.
I use them to host a couple of discord bots and a mumble server with virtually zero downtime. I can't provide that on my home server.
@@DarkForce2024 1 Fire, bye bye 2 hard drives. Off site back up is important, but most home users don't even think about that. But then you have to consider securing an off-site NAS to upload stuff to. And I don't know if your GramGram was an Enterprise Admin before retiring, because mine was not.
People use Vultr to host their clients’ websites, that’s not something the average person can do on their own computer.
I'm currently running an image server, it is hosted on my machine, it's open source, and I fully control the drive that my images are hosted on. (Immich in case anyone wants to know)
@@DarkForce2024 I bought a 12 TB HDD for about 250-ish USD. $20 per terabyte is pretty cheap and I choose not to keep my date on cloud storage. My phone is backed up to my PC, I removed my files from Google Drive, and I keep everything on MY computer
Jesus, this is blatant abuse...
Imagine a landlord saying all your shit is mine forever and always because you used my service. In this case, they're taking your proprietary digital files, your family photos, sensitive messages, and data. This situation isn't so dissimilar from the squatter crises occurring in some states, "your home and belongings are mine until a court forces me out in a few years, maybe." Meanwhile Google basically did the same thing last year, and every company soon will.
dont forget that the landlord will not let you back into you place until you give them ownership of everything in it
FYI, Vultr removed those terms and the CEO responded with a "nuh uh" - he said that just applies to content posted on their public discussion forums... even though that section never mentions "forum" nor does it limit itself to public content, and it specifically applies to "any ... content or material that You or your end users submit, upload, post, host, store, or otherwise make available".
so basicly todler with hand in cookiejar claims he diddnt take a cookie.
If it doesn't say what they meant it to say it still says what it actually says.
Most modern organizations, especially the "cool" ones like Google, Amazon etc. just seem completely unaware of the word "consent". In fact, that might well be the very reason some people think they're "cool", right? Think about it.
When all you use are buzz words, everything becomes a buzz word.
@@DKNguyen3.1415just look at CZcams. Gave a try at reading the TOS.
It basically prefaces that every time you read "CZcams", they actually mean "Alphabet Inc." And as such any infraction on "CZcams" can carry punishment on "CZcams"
Or in layman terms, I say an oopsie in my gmail acc I reserve to games but that can be traced to me, they can block my Google Workspace corporate account in retaliation.
You "consented" by being aware of their existence, didn't you read the EULA?!?
I work in animation, Everything I do is under NDA if I used this cloud service I would be in violation of NDA.
In the end, Just like Louis said before "A cloud service is just putting your stuff on someone else's computer" None of these things are above pulling a stunt like this, None of them can be trusted to keep your work safe and secure none of them should be depended on for anything important I really hope more people start to realize that.
I don't know what else you'd expect from a company whose name literally sounds like "Vulture". 😂
I never even thought of pronouncing it Vulter, it's a vulture for sure.
You are right, Louis. If I was a customer, I'd feel violated and would unsusbscribe instantly.
vultures tend to have the decency to wait for the victim to die though.
they wish they were such a noble creature. No. They're Hyenas infested with Demodex.
Maybe local encryption needs to become more popular. It's the only defense I see against this kind of predatory nonsense.
It already is, and it doesn't really help the underlying issue. All computers shipped with Win 11 have a TPM installed. Its sole purpose is to store encryption keys on-chip, and releases it to the OS if it passes a security check. The problem is that the TPM does nothing else..... not even processing ciphers. It just needs to be convinced the hardware matches its check list, and releases the key in plain text to the OS. So while the disk might be encrypted, the OS just decrypts files in the course of handing it.
Thats the problem with how we use encryption. Securing it in transit is very effective... but you still need it decrypted at various endpoints to make the files useful again. And thats where a lot online services struggle with the concept. If they have a need to process information (and we're assuming legitimate need), they're going to need to be able to decrypt it to do stuff with it. If you want the platform to be accessible in multiple places per user (like web mail), you have to have a mechanism to either pass, store or generate the decryption keys on each end user machine/session.
To secure things for cloud storage, you'd either have to encrypt the files individually (no bulk encryption), so they are encrypted independent of the file system; OR.... set up middleware to do bulk encryption for any file system hook for integrated cloud storage (IE to OneDrive type services).
And for those not aware. Its possible to confuse/scare users trying to use encryption, by claiming any unscannable file sent to the cloud is a potential problem, and saying the server based Anti-Virus was "unable to scan the file for threats and viruses".
@@freelancerthe2561I thoroughly insist everyone I can get though to they use CRYPTOMATOR as a matter of extreme urgency if using cloud services. It's open source, you can buy keys anonymously and it makes cloud encryption a breeze. I'm not affiliated or a shill. I'm just a very happy user. Add Safing Portmaster and dump the VPN and even Windows is blind! It's also really easy. EULAs change. Laws change. Mathematics doesn't!
@@freelancerthe2561 on that last one ive seen they just strieght up claim its a virus. usually a trojan.
The concept that would prevent it is called encryption of data-in-use.
You can see it as a sort of DRM, with the data owner having the key. When the data owner processes their data, e.g. open the email web-/application, the data gets loaded and decrypted in local ram. Any local processing ends with encryption, so that cloud storage only hosts encrypted data.
Are there any websites that have a blacklist of companies to steer clear and also provide reputable alternatives?
maybe I doubt it though probably will be bought out by these insane companies if it hasn't already
The suggestion to use a Large Language Model (such as ChatGPT) to read and summarize a contract is a splendid idea. Thank you
Ah yes the bias lobotomized ai
Never even thought of using AI to read trough the nonsense that is a EULA. Now that is a great use of AI. Those things are intentionally written to be awful and confusing so having something just pick it apart is something we really need with the rise of these roofie style agreements.
Inb4 corpos threaten to sue OpenAI/ChatGPT if they don't replace ToS interpretation with "As a language model, I can't do legalese."
How long until we can get the AI *working for us?* I would love for computers to fix their own software, or for my computer to alert me, "You might want to read this email. Looks to be a really good job offer that appears legit. They want a response within a few days." Buttons on the AI dialog. [ Read Now ] [ Remind me tomorrow. ] [ Dismiss. ] [ Delete that email. ] [ Something else. ]
I think if the only way to log in is to click I accept then this "accept" should not count in court because I was not able to even delete my account or terminate agreement without accepting.
100%... you say agreeing to the terms now means you can do whatever you want with my data? But I have to agree before I can get your grubby hands off it? 🙃
i reallllly hope someone takes this to court.
its unforgivably rapey as he puts it. Its like you meet someone at a bar and they invite you back to their place to eat some food, and after you eat, they padlock every door and will not let you leave until you have sex with them. Its is immoral and criminal in my opinion to force an agreement to terms of service and sign away rights to your property, before being allowed to collect and move said property.
Reply
@CidVeldoril
7 hours ago (edited)
Door \ Couch = Forced Arbitration
Whenever there is a change in Terms Of Service or End-User License Agreement, the company should give a grace periode so you can download/migrate your content and cancel your subscription.
To be fair, bigger companies like CZcams give you a heads up before the changes go in effect. That should be the standard.
This causes a lot of questions in terms of their data security practices.
Hell if they can claim to read and monetize customer data in plain form, i doubt there's any security going on
Louis with the beard. Still delivering the truth.
There's no good reason to assume your cloud service provider won't rummage your data through and through. The solution - don't keep unencrypted files on the file system, encrypted data only.
Wouldn't the encryption keys be generated by the service?
More importantly, wouldn't the decryption keys be stored on that same server?
@@PhrontDoor Encrypt the files before sending them to the cloud service.
pgp-and gpg keys in particular-should be more common than they are.
encrypted lol nobody has time for this shit, get real
This is why I don't use cloud storage or web app productivity software. Anything you create or store that's in _somebody else's hands_ is _in somebody else's hands._ Just like it's prudent to buy physical media so that content providers can't just arbitrarily revoke your access to it, it's prudent to keep your work exclusive to your own storage device(s).
This is why I go a step further and *fully wipe and reformat* external storage to make sure they don't have vendor -spyware- software on them.
You can use Portmaster to check for that. Still, if it's an SSD, a quick format only costs a couple seconds.@@GSBarlev
I've said for years that the govt need to protect digital rights by enacting a civil digital rights act of some kind to stop abuse of our personal information. Make this illegal so they can be sued and we will see changes in behavior.
I hate to tell you this, but the government loves the fact that they can subpoena companies like google for data they can't legally collect themselves. So that's not gonna happen unless the people force them to do it and there are not enough people that give a shit.
How is what they and Rok/Blizz doing even legal in the USA? You should not have to accept potentially losing ownership of everything just to remove or switch to someone else.
This is the United States, "Consumer protection" doesn't exist here.
The US laws allow corporations, especially tech corporations to get away with almost anything billions of times. Doing terrible things that would get a citizen put in prison for doing just once but since it's a corporation it's all good! Nothing to see here!
I'm a person who plays video games. I'll just say it.. Gamers AS A GROUP are ignorant, greedy, selfish, cowards. Most of them don't even know this type of thing happens, and most who do know don't care. They just want to play their game, even if it's literally taking advantage of them.
Microsoft literally stole Minecraft from anyone who couldn't access their 10+ year old email address that they used to initially sign up for Minecraft with when they purchased it and "gamers" blamed the users getting their games stolen for losing their email addresses from when they were literally children. Or in my case, my cousin bought Minecraft for me when I was a kid and he died a few years ago. I can't just log into his email address. But according to them it's still my fault that Microsoft is stealing my copy.
@@Mischievous_Moth It does!!!! Its just made by the corporations that run the country and sell you consumerist products so you can be addicted to sugar and slowly decline in health and quality of life
It's the direct result of having repealed net neutrality. the FCC was behind this. This was done in 2015
I just got a digital drawing tablet and that was also in there with the forced arbitration that I wasn’t able to see until after I tried to download the driver for it. The forced arbitration would require me to go to Japan if there was a problem.
0:50 "Kinda rapey" is a phrase I need to start using to describe consent violations.
Double dipping is going to be the new norm with these corporations. Charge you for the service and use your data to make more money.
In Italy a couple of months ago in one of the large supermarket chains, for a few weeks they had posted on the doors going into the store that:
"You are not allowed to use your own bag to carry your purchases from our stores. By bringing your bag in, you agree to have it confiscated."
It's not just online.... Stupidity and Greed is RAMPANT !
That's ridiculous to the point of amusement. So many supermarkets these days encourage people to bring their own bags; it helps their environmental bragging.
"By entering this premises you agree that the manager may fuck your ass sans lubrication."
Just because you write that you have a right doesn't make it true. I just don't see it flying in court.
I'll just walk in with a post-it note stuck to my forehead that says "me bringing my bag in doesn't mean I agree to have it confiscated".
Which supermarket was that? I'd hazard a guess at Conad, but I could be wrong.
@@sullivan912 Conad, but wasn't the only one :)
Are they charging you extra for the bags to take the products you are buying home in then? I fail to see how this actually helps them make money otherwise - if they are now having to provide me with a bag that cost them money at best you are getting some 'free' advertising for however long that bag is visible to anybody but me. Which probably means at most 10 mins, as people don't tend to walk very far with shopping bags...
if community resisted the hard way by taking DIVX to court and boycotting it's commercial conversation things would've been better now
whats with divx nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
lol gamers shouldeve been putting irdeto out of buisness by now, but here we are those cunts are still profitable
Funny thing is the privacy guidelines referenced by the eu recommend encrypting data before uploading it to the cloud
what's insane is the end users no doubt have zero ability to actually grant that level of permission to Vultr, if I happened to backup a collection of Disney movies, vulture having that BS in their T&C does not give them legal rights to use copy-written content that the end user has stored on their cloud services to train AI models etc, and the biggest major red flag is once they dropped this T&C update the essentially forced people to accept the terms before they could log in to recover their data to migrate it to a non-mental head case cloud server, and they grant themselves an eternal right to your data if you accept, so if you had something important on there and you didn't have a local backup you're screwed as you can't get it back without giving them the right to steal your data eternally
In a few years we will all have robots in our living rooms, and will be forced to bend over and take it directly from these Big Tech companies.
Why wait? We're getting the shaft right now.
@@Cybersawzonly figuratively atm.
We'll get the three seashells in the future! :D
@Louis - You've done a lot for right to repair. Any chance you can lobby for banning forced terms of service changes/forced arbitration. I'd donate toward that.
I'm afraid this would be a colossal waste of time. This is a very radical shift compared to R2R - to the point of companies being unable to do business where these new laws are enacted. While I'm down to these things being used maliciously in an anti-consumer manner, these are also meant to protect companies from being exploited: e.g., being forced to serve someone into bankruptcy due to ToS technicalities, being unable to comply with new government regulations, and I think there was a case where a company [Patreon?] was under threat of being buried in court expenses if a large enough mass was to file certain complaints against it in retaliation for banning a popular figure (hence arbitration clause).
I think education (or maybe BLM-style riots) would do a better job - eventually - than lobbying on this. If people learn to click "Cancel" instead of "Accept" when they see a 50-page-long wall of text that they are legally agreeing to because "tl;dr" (then post about it on Twitter); or closing their account because they feel like their privacy is not being respected, companies would fall over themselves trying to find a way to resolve this before they run out of funding. Today, unfortunately, all I hear is "it's free - just click NEXT NEXT NEXT and ACCEPT", and whoever says that is completely oblivious to the meaning behind that entire attitude - they just don't give a damn...
There should be legislation to make it illegal to not be able to decline new TOS. The TOS itself is not that problematic to me, because at 1:52 you missed the very last bit where it says ", for purposes of providing the Services to you."
I don't think the meaning of "for the purpose of providing you services" will be the same for them and their customers.
The TOS should not be allowed to change once a product is purchased. The TOS you agreed to when you purchased the product should be the same for the life of the product.
@@MAGAMAN But you're not buying a product, you're buying a service. I think it is fair to change the TOS for a service because laws and circumstances change over time. However the customer should be informed of any changes ahead of time and have the option to deny the TOS and cancel the services before the new TOS take effect.
The problem is that they can "define" anything they do as something they need to provide "services to you", including selling your data because without that money they wouldn't be able to have the money to provide services to you.
Also, and the most important part, is that even when you have stopped being their customer, they still have the right to use your information (because it is "perpetual"), you can't even "revoke" it and you can't even sue them without arbitration...
@@JuanWayri That is a good point, the perpetual thing is indeed worrying. But they have announced that they'll remove said TOS section.
This is why GDPR is a cool thing. The size of the unlubbed lawsuit they would get would bankrupt this company.
Do not praise the devil for fighting a beast.
GDPR is bad at so many levels, its internally contradictory and impossible to fulfill, while guaranteeing company bankrupting fines.
It was made so that government can just use it to kill any company they want, no more no less.
And many of its clauses actually makes your data less secure instead of more,
eg. right to transfer gives hackers full access to any data they want if they manage to hack your account.
Imagine renting an office space. Now imagine the landlord can come in, take your work, spreadsheets, branding, everything. Sell it. Never say a thing, make money off of your property, while you continue to pay for the office. Totally bananas.
worse, he makes copies of everything and will not let you into the office to collect and move your things until you give him permission to sell the copies he made.
there's also a $5 charge per sheet of paper you want to physically remove from the office, otherwise when you stop paying and leave, you have to leave everything behind for him to rummage through
The craziest thing is that from what I remember Vultr is also a subscription service. So this is truly messed up now.
So apparently copyright laws only apply to corporations. Our intellectual property can be taken whenever companies feel like.
You'd be surprised how many of those "rights" are actually needed. For example if you take a photo on your phone, let's say full megapixels is 6000x4000 pixels. But if the phone has to convert it and create a thumbnail so that you can browse your pictures faster, that means you have to grant your phone (and software) the right to create derivitive works, because that is what they are doing to generate thumbnails or apply filters. If they have backups, logs, a recycle bin, storage of multiple variations, and versions of the photo. If they have tools that let you edit your photo, or transfer it to other software like sharing, then you have to grant them rights to create copies, edit, send to 3rd parties, log transactions, etc etc.
Some of the "rights" we have to grant these companies is because they are actually doing the very things they are saying they are doing. They are creating copies, they are distributing to multiple servers, multiple countries, sharing to other services and providers, creating backups, revisions, storing logs, making derivitive works (did you apply a 'filter'?) It has to be worldwide in case they use CDNs or have redundant servers for backup. The list goes on.
Believe me, if they are demanding the rights to do something, they are most likely doing it, but not for the reasons we might assume as a conspiracy theorist.
I used to read terms of services agreements back in 2007. I dont anymore, I just assume the worst and go from there.
I accidentally bought a stove/oven with wifi and Bluetooth recently. I poped it open and drilled thru the wifi chip just to make sure nothing changed for me in the future and I never really cared about warranties.
Just don't connect it to the internet. My LG wanted my to connect it to the internet. I did not. MY Samsung TV (which has developed terrible light bleed on one side) keeps nagging me to connect it to the internet. I will not.
The change put aside, this kind of ToS should be illegal. Because, as you've said - nobody is reading this when signing up anyway. And this is equivalent to renting a house for your family and the contract says that the landlord has EVERY right over you and your family(basically turning you into slaves). This contract would be illegal, thus invalid. Apparently we need similar laws that protect our digital rights too.
If you live in the UK or EU your fine.
LMAO!
Louis, Vultr was the advertiser CZcams showed me on this video. 😂
Thanks for doing this type of work. It irritates me to no end when this happens.
I like this new pivot to discussing TOS/EULA rape. I really hope it opens enough eyes.
You know, this country has an extremely bad track record of actually prosecuting rape. It might not help as much as you think.
@@sloanekuria3249 I think that's missing the point a bit. The analogy isn't about prosecution of the act, but about comparing it to something horrible that people can understand.
I am also unfortunately aware of the persecution stats on rape and murder being abysmal.
*has a stock supply of servers, SAS drives, and hosting everything I need on-prim* , "Weak fools, people for your souls to be theirs. Mine is my own and they cannot buy it"
This is why proper consumer protection should be mandated by law
My favorite part is that if I want to remove my data or delete my account, BECAUSE OF the change to TOS, I have to agree first :)
someone needs to sue these companies for stuff like this. removing access to an service you pay for unless you agree to new terms for a prior sale should be legal in no circumstance
Thanks!
Will there ever be repercussions for these grapists?!!!! Thanks again Louis for opening our eyes!
I'm in the lucky position to be an IT professional and I go through the money and labor to have my own server to host all my data, like file storage, backup and mail and I only do that, because it is the only way to be sure companies like that can't access any of it or change their terms of service. Sadly, this is not an option for the vast majority of people.
So… if they can use your data however they want, without further permission or compensation does that mean that if you saved any personal pictures / video to their cloud that they are free to use your image and video in adult entertainment?
Talk about EULA roofying.🤬
Did you upload your sex tapes to the cloud? Sounds like you did...
What if a company uses them for a medical database and information keeping system. If they stole or used that information they would be committing a federal crime at that point because PII and medical records are federally protected, and the owner of the information didn't give consent. It would also be illegal for them to access and look at it as well. So if you put medical information with something else they can't even look at it lol.
I can't believe major companies are applying these underhanded, corrupt practices. Sharing is Caring, everyone.
i think you can sue them for sharing you data without your permission, and when they refer to the TOS, you just deny any accountability of agreeing with it.
Aaand it's gone. The terms got updated again today and the section mentioned in the video is gone. There still is a 'grant' in the terms but with a limitation to use it only in connection with any service they offer.
Yeah...
Section 15 (c)
"As between You and Vultr, Vultr acknowledges that it claims no proprietary rights in or to Your Content. You hereby grant to Vultr a non-exclusive, worldwide and royalty-free license to copy, make derivative works, display, perform, use, broadcast and transmit on and via the Internet Your Content, solely for the benefit of You and to enable Vultr to perform its obligations under these Terms."
I'm not sure what that means for the future of this provider (there's the joke about their name but historically they started in 99 as game server hosts for Call of Duty, tbf), I grabbed all the data needed and am on the verge of switching providers still.
There's still that popup that asks you to accept the new ToS, however, but for now it can be sidestepped by blocking the element.
@@Somerled_PoxI believe they're lying and they're just going to use data for things not related to the service
@@Somerled_Pox That's indeed the section, however looking further back that text has been part of their TOS for a long time, in 2014 it was already there.
Loving the beard and the door behind the sofa!
You mean the ranting couch.
I am really glad we're having a dialog about consent and our data. Because this is the kind of critical lens more people need when evaluating generative AI, and the unethical scraping and use of training data...
Hey so I watch a lot of youtube and every single one of your videos for months has had me have to adjust to a lower resolution just to watch. I also pay for youtube premium. I can open similar sized youtube channels and watch no problem I can also watch channels with 70 subs and have no issues. I love how blatantly they shadow deboost your channel.
Sending my love from Houston.
I think it’s moronic that terms of services can change! You agree once and those terms should apply to you as long as you are registered to us that service. I hate my Hyundai updating TOS every 3 months or so. Why?! I paid for the fucking car! It’s should be my fucking property they way it was delivered to me! Always! I hate governments and big corporations more and more each passing day.
Why aren't people suing them left and right? At this point its free money. It's like you make a deposit at your bank and the next day the bank changes its ToS and confiscates your money, that's theft.
The best part is that they actually say "your clients" you cant consent for your clients.... plain and simple... they are just open them self for a lawsut...
Also just realized that violates soo many laws... including GDPR that says you need to delet all your client data once requested in 30 days... acording to that they dont do it...
I just destroyed my Vultr VPS, effectively cancelling my Vultr subscription.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
So if you don't agree, you still can't remove your data from their cloud and they can still use it without your knowledge right?
This is like parking your car in a parking garage and the owner decides that because you park there they have the right to drive your car whenever they want
In Australia, we have consumer protection that reads the t&c for us
With all these companies doing this, especially streaming services; companies still wonder why people pirate.
few pirate these days... most new kids dont even know how to use a computer... they are experts on tik tok and gmail...
Damn, these companies are trying to P Diddy us. 😂
Is this Chad Rossman?
Congress do something about it! Why Congress isn't on the People's side?! Crazy!
Forced coercion is a crime.
Oh no! Bearded Rossman!!? Apple is screwed!!
The beard gives him power
I am ready for a Rossmann bearded arc
So when company want user content then it's perpetual and irrevocable but when user wants to buy company's content then buying only means renting.... nice...
Love the path you’re on. One thing I think you may be missing in the framing of this issue is your use of the word ‘consent.’ These ToS updates aren’t asking for consent, they’re establishing an ultimatum. ToS and EULA are considered legally binding agreements and consumers are being structurally positioned as indentured serfs, where they must chose between agreeing to be monitored, sold, and profiteered by service providers or “lose everything.” This is a really dangerous reinterpretation of how contracts work (in the US).
Like, this just makes contracts less-than-meaningless to consumers; I’m fine with organizations changing their ToS/EULA, but they need to actually support the previous ToS/EULA for users who do not want to accept the new terms. And if they can’t, then allow for either full refunds for the purchase (and all in-platform purchases), or deliver physical copy “opt out” options to users that decline.
This is one step away from GM updating their sales agreement to force you to only refusal at licensed GM dealerships *and if you don’t agree, they can legally repossess the engine of your car*.
Thanks for another great video Louis! Here's one for the algorithm! :^)
Oh fuck I use vultr 😢
Best bang for the buck, that moneyz gotta come from somewhere.
@@dgo4490 you're not wrong but this is too much
Come to EUROPEAN UNION here consumer have rights!
To a degree.
soon we will realise these govt agencies claiming Privacy being the main reason they want their citizens data never leaving their borders.
while slowly introducing laws that increase access to data monitoring as it's within their borders.
Then giving out contracts to local companies for making software that will keep an eye on these shady corporations for research and security purposes. basically giving themselves the same power parity.
Soon they will then try to start licencing or banning foreign software products that they don't control or like.
@@JASHIKO_ but definitely against such things Louis was speaking off
@@dl8cy it's certainly better than nothing!
Over time, scammers learn more how to scam. First it was squatting houses in order to own them. And now this.
Imagine renting a flat, then the owner shows up and claims all your stuff is his.
what an aptly named company
If your data is on someone elses server YOU DONT OWN IT
That is how i see it and that is why I refuse to use cloud.
That is entirely untrue. I'll give 2 examples but there's thousands.
1. You pay to license an extremely expensive software package, and it is saved on your server to use. According to your statement, that would mean you now OWN the software package, superseding your agreed upon license.
2. Someone hacks an AI development company, stealing their AI library and models. They then host this on their server. According to your statement, this now means the hackers OWN that content, which is obviously false since the AI company still owns it
@@Dhagen6278 They never said that if data is on your computer you own it
Yeah. Or like...a storage unit. We don't own that, but.that doesn't mean they suddenly own all of our stuff in their storage. O.o
@AG-hx6qn Exactly. Which is the same thing as using someone's cloud data. If a storage company did that, you could get people arrested or at the very least, sue them and easily win. But when it comes to technology, these companies pull all sorts of BS because our laws allow them to do something that would be illegal if it wasn't a digital good but a material good
Makes me wonder if they had this in mind when they started the company; because their name perfectly fits their current business model- pick all the meat off their customers, & leave them with useless bones.
This is like a storage company renting out a room to you then taking all of your stuff
Did he read before uploading 🤔
I never used Vultr, thank god.
To be clear, as I mentioned later in the video, this has been their TOS for months. Many were saying it's new - it's not. However, three things:
1) The reason many thought this is new is because NONE OF YOU(including me, no judgment here) EVER READ EULAS or TOS.
2) They only just now started popping up this message and not letting you log into your account unless you click accept.
3) Regardless of whether this TOS was changed months ago or now, it's still a horrible TOS that anyone who values respect for their data & programming works should never click accept to. There are many other hosts that do not treat you like human garbage while taking your money.
No views after 12s, you're falling off 🤓🤓
How the mighty haven't fallen.
Kudos to you Louis for working with the likes of Brighteon & others who care about our rights & freedom 👍
I can't use MY new phone because I won't agree to Google's TERMS....
Now to get satisfaction I'll have to put it in one of my art creations.
Hey, big fan of you and the content you put out. Do you have a video showing how to use chat gpt to read on recognize the content in a contract that would violate your rights? I don't know much about chat gpt or how to use it, however I would love to be able to open it up on my phone or computer and see what all a contract may look to enforce upon me as a user.
Keep up the great work about informing people in regards to right to repair and the stuff companies do to try and take away our rights!