Topping D70 Pro Octo DAC Review - 8 Times The Excellence?
Vložit
- čas přidán 5. 06. 2024
- Thanks to Apos Audio for the loan of D70 Pro Octo!
Buy from Apos (affiliate link): apos.audio/products/topping-d...
Support me on...
Patreon: / wavetheory1
Donate on Paypal: www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted...
Version of In The Hall of the Mountain King I discussed: • Grieg: Peer Gynt Suite...
My Reviews of Some Mentioned Gear...
Topping Gear:
Topping A30 Pro: • Topping A30 Pro Headph...
Topping A50s: forum.hifiguides.com/t/toppin...
Topping A90: • Topping A90 Headphone ...
Topping A90D: • Topping A90D Headphone...
Topping D30 Pro: • Topping D30 Pro DAC Re...
Topping D50s: forum.hifiguides.com/t/toppin...
Topping D90se: • Topping D90se DAC Review
Topping DX7Pro+: • Topping DX7Pro+ All-In...
Topping E30: forum.hifiguides.com/t/toppin...
Topping L30: forum.hifiguides.com/t/toppin...
Other Gear:
Beyerdynamic DT880: • What Gear is My Gear? ...
Bottlehead Crack: www.head-fi.org/showcase/bott...
Cayin HA-1Amk2: • Cayin HA-1AMK2 Vacuum ...
Denafrips Ares 12th Anny Ed: • Denafrips Ares 12th An...
Ezertich Perfidus: • Erzetich Perfidus "Evi...
Focal Radiance: • What Gear is My Gear? ...
Focal Utopia (1): • Focal Utopia Headphone...
(2): • What Gear is My Gear? ...
Geshelli J2S: • Geshelli Labs J2S DAC ...
Headamp GS-X Mini: www.head-fi.org/showcase/head...
HiFiMan Ananda Nano: • HiFiMan Ananda Nano He...
HiFiMan Arya Organic: • HiFiMan Arya Organic H...
HiFiMan HE1000se (1): • HiFiMan HE1000se Headp...
(2): • What Gear is My Gear? ...
HiFiMan Susvara (1): • HiFiMan Susvara - Summ...
(2): • What Gear is My Gear? ...
Lake People G111mk2: • Lake People G111 Headp...
LTA MZ3: • Linear Tube Audio Micr...
Massdrop + Sennheiser HD6XX: • What Gear Is My Gear P...
Parasound Zamp v3: • Parasound Zone Amp v3 ...
Schiit Asgard 3: • Schiit Asgard 3 Headph...
Schiit Bifrost 2 (OG): • Schiit Bifrost 2 Digit...
Schiit Bifrost 2/64: • Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DA...
Schiit Lyr+: • Schiit Lyr+ Hybrid Tub...
Schiit Modius: • Schiit Modius Digital ...
Sennheiser HD600: • Sennheiser HD600 (New ...
Singxer SU-6: • Singxer SU-6 DDC Revie...
SMSL DO300: • SMSL DO300 DAC Review ...
Soekris dac1421: • Soekris dac1421 - A Si...
Sonore ultraRendu: • Sonore ultraRendu Netw...
Violectric HPA-V281: • What Gear Is My Gear? ...
Violectric HPA-V550: • Violectric HPA V550 He...
Timestamps...
00:00 Intro, Pricing, Disclaimers
01:14 Shameless Self Promotion
01:38 Why "Octo?"
02:27 Self-Transparency: My Take on Topping
06:51 Specs, Features & Build
12:53 Test Gear
15:22 Sound
26:09 Comparisons (DO300, OG Modius, Mojo 2)
29:06 High Sampling Rate Performance
30:11 Wrap Up
![Исследование схемы Topping D70s (2xAK4497) [DacMaster]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ucsuLvQ0m4M/mqdefault.jpg)
at 2:40 you described my experience with topping gear. I used to have a topping L30II amplifier and it never sounded like real music, it sounded like listening to some compressed low bitrate audio file. Very dry timbre with no decay of instruments, flat and compressed dynamic range and rolled off sub bass would be my description of that amp. When I upgraded to an aune X7S amplifier the improvements in all aspects of technical performance was insane from timbre, dynamics, base extension to even resolution and micro-detail retrieval which topping gear is supposedly very good at. Made me realize that all those " measurements" on topping specs sheet are made using simple sine waves and music is far more complex than simple sine waves and much harder, if not impossible to measure. I think the frequency spectrum of a single instrument is made up of nearly infinite sine waves or something so just because an amplifier can play 1 sine wave flawlessly doesnt mean it can handle real music as well.
I was about to pull the trigger for the L30 ii , think i'll do more research after reading this . thanks
But it measures so well! Come on dude, audiophiles don't listen to music they listen to reviews for measurements! Seriously though, respect to Wavetheory to call this out so early in a review. A lot of reviewers skirt around this issue and are afraid to upset their viewers.
Very well described plus excellent choice of comparison units - Thanks !
Paul McGowan, with PS Audio, released a video on his CZcams channel about 3 weeks ago to talk about their new StellarGold stereo DAC. They are also using 8 DAC chips in it. Four per channel. He says that using 4 chips per channel, in parallel, helps reduce noise and distortion. He also said, and I'm paraphrasing, that it helps with dynamics and a grander sound. I'm sure there are more details on their website, but that is the gist of it. Perhaps this is what Topping had in mind or is using a similar topology.
Was just about to write this very comment, thanx for saving me the trouble. Two additions could be, if I remember correctly, are that doubling the chips will half the noise each time, and that the reducing of the noise maxes out at 16 chips.
Great review, thank you! Highlighting how it doesn't handle complexity is very important. And thank you for sharing your experience with musical instruments. That matter. I have spent sooo many hours in reharsal rooms I get where you're comming from. I will never forget the sound of the skin of a tom. Even the sound of just touching it with my hand. This influences my taste now, when it sounds real on a speaker I just know it. And I feel more.
The problem I have with the D90SE/LE is the high price. My first stack was the SMSL DO200 with HO200 amp. Eventually I wanted to upgrade, so I ordered a D90LE. I was not impressed. It sounded just like my DO200, and I could not see where it was better. I returned it and got the HiFiman EF400 at a discount. I love it.
The EF400 has a really beautiful, lush sounding DAC. I use the Aune S17 as an amp and the EF400 sounds even better than with the internal amp. I used to have the Topping A/D90 stack and in todays market it is way too expensive for the sound it offers.
@@user-xj5il6kb9y A good amp is going to be my next upgrade for sure.
Last week I finally sold my Topping DX3 Pro+, after months of occasional testing and trying to like how it sounds. Still disappointed in some of the reviewers who were raving about the device when it came out, and made me spend the money, when I already had some usable and better sounding devices at home.
hi, thx for the review. will you review the Chord Mojo 2? ;) got one to try out, and i am pretty impressed with the sq using it as a dac with a desktop headphone amp :)
Thanks for talking about actual instruments 4:54. I agree completely, perhaps even going further, topping and overly neutral dacs/amps might measure well but have nothing to do with how acoustic based instruments are supposed to sound.
Hopefully you don't - really - remember our cable discussion...
That aside, we are 100% on the same page concerning Topping. I like to listen to metal, and what you mention what happens when the music really kicks in is exactly what I experienced. I used to own a Topping D90 amp (I still have a Topping P50 linear power supply, but I only use that one to charge phones and players). Still I am happy that I had D90 for a little over year or so - Topping products are not very expensive, and I think that they do quite well on the second hand market. - Listening to it helped me in my audio journey, to decide what works for me.
Hi @wavetheory, I'm interested in knowing who the competition are that you refer to in the video. I've been looking at Dac's in the $400 - $600 range and it all seems to be SMSL, Topping, Schiit & Geshelli. What is the $230 dac you mention, Schiit Modius?
It's a general statement. Up and down Topping's line they don't compare favorably to their competition. At the D90 level they get outclassed by SMSL VMV, Schiit Bifrost, Soekris dac1421, Denafrips Ares 12th, Black Ice Glass FX, etc. Around the D70 level, SMSL DO300 and yes Geshelli J2S w/ Sparkos opamps outclass them, and so does the OG Modius even though it's $200+ cheaper. At the entry level they are competitive, though. The E30 and D10 were very good entry level pieces. Get above that though, and they get crushed.
Today I bought an topping d70 pro octombrie and you have totala right. I will send back. Thank you !
Thanks for the review! Glad you are still holding your own in the face of differing opinions. It's important to get a balanced take on a product as opposed to everyone raving/ranting. You mentioned you liked the Chord Mojo 2, do you think that is better or similar to let's say the Bifrost 2/64? I have a mojo 2 and I am looking for a balanced dac with similar sound signature. Thanks and keep it up!
I can't name a balanced dac that quite captures the Chord sound in that price range. A question to consider is do you really need a balanced dac? It's usually not a problem to use the single-ended inputs on a balanced amp. The problem comes in using the single ended output on a balanced dac.
@wavetheorysound Thanks for responding! And that's good to know, that definitely broadens the prospects, happily using my Mojo 2 as a dac in the meantime. I've got a budget of $1000 - $1600 so I've got a lot to choose from. Again thanks for your honest takes, truly a breath of fresh air in the reviewer space!
@@bunnygal23 Could you please help me with an advice. How to connect Mojo2 to Topping LA90 (XLR inputs)?
@@nponepYou can use an RCA to balanced cable, but the volume is half what it should be, as the RCA output is less than the balanced input is expecting.
@@1jhnpennington Thanks for reply
Did you get the A70 pro and D70 pro Sabre as well? Reviews coming?
Great way to open a Tuesday. Have you heard the Tradutto? I saw them at four bills down from eight bills. Excellent reviews
I was interested in Tradutto, very nice looking small DAC hopefully WaveTheory covers it in the future.
Would love to see a stand-alone Mojo 2 review. Seems like you rate it quite highly.
I tired the Pro Octo as well, I agree 100% with this review. smsl SU9 pro outperformed it.
Looking forward to mojo 2 review.
hi can you help me? i just bought s17pro and the he1000se wich dac you advice to me in order to have the best dynamics as i'm a musician and i like micro dynamics texture listen to a little classical music and acoustic in general, country etc? iwas thinking to this but i need tge bass for the he1000se , i was also thinking to su-10 smsl but you didn't reviewd it... i think i don't like the r2r. thanks
I want it
Thanks for a great review! And many thanks that you mentioned Mojo2 as way better DAC as D70. I was very close to by desktop DAC, thinking that it will perform better than portable one (I'm new in Hi-Fi). Could you please advice how to connect unbalanced Mojo2 (3.5) to balanced Topping LA90 Amplifier (XLR). Many thanks in advance.
Not that I'm aware. I think that's one of the inherent limitations of the LA90.
Speaking of DAC:s, would you get a used Gungnir Multibit for €500?
You're not alone, SINAD is not everything
I don't have the answer as to why there are 8 DAC chips. Perhaps each DAC chip in the Topping D70 Pro Octo DAC is specialized in converting the digital signal to analog based on a designated part of the frequency band.
♥
Topping keeps this up, and in another 15-20 product iterations they might have something worth looking at.
Now i have to buy one of these just to see if you are a topping hater or it really doesnt sound good lol
Wait..am I the only one who’s up and watching this …this was eye opening… 28:46
yeah that was a real good schiit..
I’m looking for an upgrade for my DAC ..yes currently a Topping E50 with an IFI power supply…it’s ok ..but I’ll be auditioning replacements in the new year….interesting, why 8 DAC’s 🤷🏻♂️
I am in the same boat, E50 with good power and the detail is good but the realism and any richness is missing. I think the next (noticeable) step DAC is in the $800 range.
@@blue6point62 same here ..in CANADA ..I’m looking at the $1K CAD 👍👍
Didn't see you pointing to any measurements to corroborate your conclusion. I'd like to know how something that measures ruler flat from 20-20kz, delivers 4vrms to its amplifier across that entire range can "run out of gas" rendering any set of frequencies. If you have a theory to explain this, I'd love to hear it.
Hifiman Serenade and Serenade JR reviews PLS!
But does it have "16 times the detail"? 😉
GM☕️….listening
Oh man, I can only imagine the amount of hate mail you got after posting this 🤣🤣🤣
I enjoyed this review, good work!
I have a Topping E50 with LPS fed by Wiim Pro to my Marantz preamp, dual mono block hifi system. For simple tracks and passages it is amazing. BUT as soon as the song gets to a complex passage, the DAC falls down and it sounds smeared, muddy, jumbled and overall very unpleasant. This has been frustrating me for some time with a system that is both wonderful and terrible often in the same listening session.
The problem sounds like cheap OP-AMP slew/rate on the board they are soldered
Calling bs.
Sorry for auto-corection task
I think I have the answer to why they chose 8 dac chips, but that's an industry secret and I don't want to get into trouble.
Edit: Ok ok... but guys please don't make it a big thing. The reason is: more number, more better!
If Topping cannot make their stuff sound good with 1 chip I doubt adding another 7 would make any difference
I don’t get it, their stuff sounds and measures great. DACs shouldn’t be flavoring the sound.
@@Cujobob unfortunately they don't sound great to my ears I used to have E50 & L50 stack and was very unsatisfied with how those combo sounded. It is very muddy especially when the music is busy. I agree with Brian (WaveTheory) on this one.
I learned the hard way that measuring great doesn't mean sounding great from my experience of using Topping products.
@@Cujobobif they’re rolling off highs and lows is it really presenting the sound as it is though?
中国製オーディオ機器は中国本土の標準規格AC220vで駆動するとパフォーマンスが向上する傾向がある。それが設計音質と考えるべき。日本の100v、アメリカの115～120vの低電圧駆動だけで「良し悪し」は判断できない。
Then topping should send a different power supply for units shipped to america right? or declare on their page "it doesnt sound so good with 110V AC".
@@ayushbhaumik7980 here in Europe we have 220-230 same as in China - and with that the issues mentioned in this video are exactly the same.
My Gustard r26 sounds fabulous on 120v while I’ve never been impressed with Topping and both are Chinese-made. I just think it’s different design philosophies.
U n me agreed Toppings isn't that good sonicly. Majority like it, which i dun know y.. Ok with the octa dac.. U see newest astelNkern sp3000 which has quad dac in it which frm akm4499 yup the newest.. The circuit architecture is quads meanings 2 dac per channel n this octa is 4 dac per channel.. Its same as monoblock to each speakers to make mo clear to understand. Sonically u dun know but power consumption definitely more. So sp3K didnt make a smart move there.. cuz portable dap really need super efficiency in order to make it alive portably N desktop here is a practical due to direct power supply. Next quest.. Again implementation of dac chips is in fact the aspects to focus on while design it.. Example the lotoo mjolnir which is big as h... But 1 only akm.. compare to let say daps these day.. Quad for sp3000?? Just compare mjolnir to sp3000 in size U might laugh n rollin. Sory go on.. Ops sumthin comin'.. I'll continue watch later.. Gtg.. Peace!
it took 15 min to get feedback on sound.. the rest seemed like not terribly informative rambling, thanks for posting
You can jump to timestamp.😅